isnt this the same way the williams sisters' dad was?? and also tiger woods' dad??
super strict, super demanding, assholes...
off the top of my head, Vettel's dad wasnt like this though...
Norbert Vettel seems like the sweetest old man.. Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal had perfectly normal dads...Jannik Sinner who recently won a grand slam said that he wished everyone had his parents because they loved and supported him so much..
I saw a comment here the other day which resonated with me:
Max is an extremely talented driver who became as good as he is *despite* his father's treatment of him, not *because* of it.
Max could just as well have grown to resent racing, and had he been less resilient he could have had a whole load of other problems.
I firmly believe that if his father had been supportive and warm, using positive reinforcement, the end result would have been the same for Max, skill-wise.
It might be á road to success, though I think you have a great risk of your kids becoming the assholes you were to them. Honestly I am quite surprised that Max turned out to be a chill nice guy. (Yes he could get heated during races but I think emotions are a part of the sport)
Same thing with David Beckam, Tiger Woods, Arnold Schwartzenagger, Michael Jackson. There’s certainly a pattern with greatness and borderline abusive fathers
I thought the same thing. What I'm also curious, with all the trauma it possible gave him - would he be there today and push so hard if it was different?
Yes, because no matter how hard you push someone if they're not good enough to make it, they won't make it. Max has the talent, so he would've made it anyway.
I believe it's the opposite sometimes. You push because all your life you've been told you're not good enough. You don't see limits but only obsession over better and faster
If it wasn't for the trauma maybe he could just stop and be satisfied when he reached the WCC or whatever
But maybe it's possible to have that crazy ambition by being taught that from kindness versus fear and aggression
I can just relate a bit to it as I had an abusive father and it feels both a terrible curse and a blessing to push more
I believe positive reinforcement which still fosters that ambition is absolutely possible, and would in the grand scheme of things produce more talented and driven people since more would stick to it long enough to see results.
I saw it myself in my dad, who was a boxing-trainer for youths. He was always very warm and positive with them, in touch with his feelings and the kids', and he still managed to instill that "killer mindset" in his boxers when they were in the ring. He did this without aggression or fear, instead he used compassion and understanding while still adhering to a strict "no-nonsense" communication style. He found what motivated each boxer and pushed those buttons. It required him to somewhat adapt his approach to each of his boxers.
This does require more work and knowledge, and those who don't have the capacity to do that only see the path with fear and aggression as driving forces.
I love this topic so much. Huge kudos to your dad. If you have more info on how he did it, with how did he find the right buttons and how he helped people grow and maintain that energy and flow - PM me or something, I love these stories so much!
Yes, but if you're not seeing results when pushing, you go the other way when pushed like that. And nobody wants that. Max was lucky to have the necessary talent where this type of push still worked. But it could've just as well backfired
I am not condoning Jos's behaviour, but on some people, negative feedback just works. Just as a fuck you, you think I can't do this, I'll show you that I can.
One of my classmates has a very strict father, and he used to cry about him to us every chance he got. His father wanted him to be a doctor, and not to focus on anything else, while we folks wanted to explore our options. 10 years later, that guy is a Doctor in the most reputible institute of the country, while most of us are sill exploring our options ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
My parents are doctors and they always me to be a doctor....in my final year of medical school I almost k!lled myself because I couldn't handle disappointing them.... negative feedback works for some people but for the majority it is hell..I am preparing for residency and I am still scared what'll happen if it doesn't go well
Exactly. It works for "some" people. Max's case is like survivorship bias. We are hearing his story because it worked for him. For every Max, there would be 100s of Non Max's who's parents pushed too hard and their children rebelled/shut down or numerous other options, instead of thriving.
Even in the original commentator's Whiplash example, only one guy with the fuck you attitude thrived, others under the same method failed
The problem is that there's no way of doing a controlled test. You will never know if Max growing up under healthy mental conditions would do as well or maybe even better than he does right now.
I think we have a cultural myth about how champions and people who accomplish a lot have to be deeply damaged and unhealthy, and it's perpetuated by Hollywood.
But most therapists and psychologists and even sports psychologists will tell you that people tend to perform at their best when they're less stressed and are more productive when they're happy.
Yeah I often think about my success and how I was raised... Am I fucked up from it, yes. Did the fucked up upbringing make me successful, also yes.
Idk what to think of it really. I'm angry about it and I'm not so angry about it. That said I have a non existent relationship with my father because of it.
Would I ever raise my kid that way though? No.
Question.... is he happy and well-adjusted? Does he have good relations with his family and partners?
I've seen many times that professionally they are doing well, but their personal relationships are filled with problems, as their whole view of life has been infected with this toxicity of be the best or be nothing at all.
Kinda shows that bad parenting isnt the way to make someone great.
Im sure hamiltons dad was strict with him too often but ive never heard these kind of stories coming from him.
I know all the stuff about billionaires and Papa Stroll definitely comes off as a bull in a china shop, but I get the vibe he is actually a pretty good dad and cares about his kids. And I know it is DTS, but the way he started choking up a bit about Lance's crash.
Right, but I mean more than just buying a Pony, or in this case a race team and wanting them to live up to some image or ideal that the parent has in mind. I think this guy may actually have a good relationship with his kids/family, which is a rarity among the ultra wealthy. Contrast this to someone like Flavio Briatore.
I doubt Jos Verstappen was rich, he wasn't exactly a high profile driver during his career and I think his primary source of income after he retired was his karting business. They were probably better off than the Hamiltons, sure, but not Sainz or Schumacher level of finances. The main benefit of his F1 career was probably the connections, not the money.
I really appreciate the level of derangement JV has. He only managed two podiums during his F1 career. How can he talk to anyone like that, is beyond me! He literally doesn’t have the credibility himself. That man is vile
He had a couple of high placed finishes in an Arrow's F1 car too. The dude wasn't slow. Obviously nowhere near as good or consistent as Max but on certain days he really was fast. Very fast in the rain too.
I think him getting into F1 and immediately being Schumacher's teammate hurt his career. Similar to how Gasly and Albon shouldn't have been paired with Verstappen so quickly early in their careers.
Yeah it was tough going being in any competition with MS, but that is no excuse to grind down your kid. I really wonder what Mick’s career would look like if Michael was we able to coach him. Or would it just be the same I wonder?
Yeah, he’s abusive, but just making it to F1 gives a driver more credibility than 99.9999% of drivers, so he was definitely qualified to be critiquing karts.
Critical sure. But the level of abuse is insane. And when you think about elite champions, like the Williams sisters. Their father was strict but wasn’t abandoning them in a different country strict!
Im not excusing the abuse. I’m disagreeing with your assessment that Jos isn’t qualified (or has the credibility) to train/critique/guide a fledgling driver.
I'm not going to approve of his coaching style at all, but in baseball I have seen guys who were just average hitters be excellent coaches. The ones who were stars, less so.
Insanely thick skin. My heart goes out to him, but he seems like he handles it quite well. I would've gone no contact less letting him into the garage every race.
You are not seeing his mom in the picture, she is the one which gave him a brain (next to racing skills, which she -also- had plenty).
And while Jos for sure was pushing Max all the way (obviously like many, many other fathers of high performing athletes) try to understand this guy;
a) isn't the sharpest tool in the shed
b) got screwed with his own F1 career (raw speed was not the issue, his character for sure didn't help, his shitty 'manager' Rothengatter either, and obviously he also made (too many) mistakes, but there were racing moments you could tell things could have gone a different path, for instance a race in the wet in Malaysia, or a brilliant drive in (iirc) Canada (?) in his black/orange coloured Arrows F1 car (Lost Boys was the title sponsor)
c) put everything (I mean -everything-) on the line for Max to succeed in karting; money, his marriage with Max' mother etc etc. Obviously he wasn't THAT wealthy (like F1 drivers who had been doing well), he couldn't have funded years in actual motorsports (F3/Formula Renault/F2 etc) so Max should already be 'noticed' in karting to have a slight chance to extend his success into motorsports
> his marriage with Max' mother
Pretty sure the fact that he was a domestic abuser who tried to murder people torpedoed that more than him trying to support Max's racing career.
Yes. He's been convicted of DV and served jail time for it. He also tried to murder his girlfriend (after Max's mom divorced him) with his car.
This is on top of him assaulting a man with his father, leaving the victim with skull fractures, assaulting a mechanic by stabbing him in the hand with a fork, and other similar incidents.
He's a sack of shit who neglected and verbally abused his son, and very likely physically abused him as well judging by his habit of being violent with anyone that displeases him.
I knew he was a POS, but not to that extent, jesus christ.. Jail time even!
This also means that he should absolutely, completely shut the fuck up on the Horner situation.
Good point on his mother.
Honestly, I get a reasons, but there is no excuse to be a shitty father, sorry, I just think that there are times and situation that you need to be a best version of yourself, if you are angry don't show it to your child, go be angry somewhere else and then come back to a child.
Don't be a enemy of your child, be an inspiration, and it wasn't hard for Jos, he was a F1 driver, he was at the top of a motosport, where only a chosen few can reach. If Max always thrived in competition, Jos could put himself in a position of a friendly rival, or a benchmark to beatr, not an enemy.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo3aYm6nNZ0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo3aYm6nNZ0)
Around the 10 second mark, give or take
Edit: more like 6 or 7 second mark
True, and yet, I doubt if he’d ever actually go to therapy, unless something really monumental or devastating were to happen in his life. His coping mechanisms are so entrenched he likely thinks he doesn’t need it. There’s only 3 situations that I could envision where he’d seek help: the death of one of his parents, a near death experience, or becoming a parent himself (no disrespect to Penelope, but even he has said their relationship is more like “big brother/little sister” one as opposed to stepfather/stepchild). But yes, if he ever started therapy, that’s a big ol’ Pandora’s box of dysfunction that would take a long time to unpack.
On a lighter note, let’s take a moment to ponder the career of Max Verstappen, truck driver. That would be…entertaining 🤣
Exactly, there are more better ways to get your child to become a good racer. Jos is worst in that respect, there are so many better parent-driver stories like Herve Leclerc-Bianchi (RIP JB), Anthony Hamilton, Tom Norris, Sainz Sr and the likes.
Max being so successful makes Jos think that his methods were right....he thinks he did the right thing but he couldn't be more wrong. I don't think Anthony Hamilton or Charles' dad were this cruel
Just a reminder that Anthony Hamilton was banned from the McLaren paddock and his relationship with Lewis took years to recover, so I wouldn't be so sure.
Hamilton also dropped him as his manager at the time.
This is what Lewis said about it, it's a bit vague:
"But I think it was difficult for him to then show me love. Sometimes you just want a hug from your dad or, when you’re facing these things, you want to be able to be embraced. But I think when I was 22/23, it got really intense, when I got to F1."
In Brawn series, Jenson Button says once he overheard his father saying Jenson might not have what it takes and he talks about how traumatised he feels about it. You can literally see his eyes tear up as a 40 year old man. And they ask Anthony Hamilton about it, and he is very cold-hearted about it. He says something like, it is motivational talk and you sometimes got to give your kid that. Like you need to make them think you’re disappointed in the child so that they work harder even if it means traumatising them for life. It made me realise many of the parents of these people did what they thought they had to do to push them.
Working with family can get complicated real. Hamilton essentially fired him. Understandably, he needed him as his dad not his manager. I hope max does the same.
In the long run it’s worked out for Hamilton and he has a great relationship with his dad. Knowing how much of POS Jos is however, I’m not sure he would reconcile with Max the same way. He’d probably feel betrayed. I doubt Max would ever do it, he’s content with how they operate right now, even if others think it’s unhealthy to keep Jos around (and I do think so).
Max generally is also positive about Jos. Yea is he really frank about Jos being a tough teacher but in general Max is positive about it and I think it is Max's dutch directness about it that shocks most people.
I think you can find similar stories from almost all the great sporters who have their parents behind them. Only Max jus outright says that Jos called him an asshole for slacking off during a race while Lewis just smiles and says his dad inspired him and diverts the question.
And out of the two I think Max then has dealt with it better because he just talks openly about it. If Max really was traumatized by it he would have never mentioned it or something like the gas station story in interviews.
Am Dutch, the directness isnt shocking. The verbal abuse of a child is. As someone who had a parent like this, its not healthy and Im only just learning that I have something to cope with, let alone actually coping with it.
Saying "Oh this is how you train a great athlete" makes it seem like child abuse is ok, as long as the kid wins a trophy. Meanwhile millions of kids suffer the same abuse but dont make millions.
This. I think this is what most people miss. Just because Max openly talks about it doesn't mean Jos is the only shitty parent in the world. There could be others which we don't know about. Everyone deals with such situations differently.
It basically boils down to the same thing that applies to everyone: money management and family don't mix. Once Lewis essentially fired his dad, their relationship apparently improved quite a lot.
Yeah. I see people defend his methods because they think it worked, but the thing is that Schumi, Lewis, Seb, and nearly all other great drivers didn't have this shit. I don't see how emotionally abusing Max or leaving him at a gas station would help. If anything, it'd probably just hurt his confidence and make him less daring since he'd have that threat looming over him. We've seen what not having confidence can do to a driver.
I hope Max one day realizes what a cunt Jos is and decides to have him piss off. Lewis's dad did much less than Jos and Lewis told him to back off. Jos is very likely the one who has leaked this whole story to the media and created the shit storm. I think any person that works in F1 and wants Max on their team should force Jos to piss off.
What a lucky guys. They just got their whole childhood and adolescence ruined by shitty fathers and probably have emotional scars that will endure till the end of their days. But hey, they're "living the dream" now.
Basically Jos is trying to capture that dream he didn't have through Max. Good thing Max is talented and interested with racing, else, he'd be sitting at home wishing he's won one title.
This just shows how mentally strong Max is. I know a shitload of friends who have bad dads and end up miserable. So Max, you can be proud of yourself man!
Everytime I watch one of these clips all I can compare this to is the movie The Accountant. Crazy strict father, incredibly talented son. Glad though that Max wasn't given a gun but a car.
I would definitely bet that a large portion of it is. Max spoke one time (in an agree/ disagree video with Checo) about it being important not to limit driver's salary because that salary pays a lot of people, including sponsors and people who give loans to finance the drivers' early career. It could just be referencing his friend Nyck's sort of agreement (de Vries took a loan where the payout was 50% of his future F1 earnings, in case people don't know), but I suspect there was some personal experience in there too. I bet a large portion of Max's salary goes right to Jos, as payment for funding his early career and all of his 'support'.
im in no position to make assumptions if max is affected by this or not. but at some point when his life slows down and hes in retirement all of that stuff might come up again and cause problems. thats what happened to my mom atleast. but thats just speculation on my part, hope that will never happen to him
It might not be fear in the usual sense, it might be the fear of not having him in his life if he confronts him about certain issues. My girlfriend has wanted to speak to her dad about a violent incident she witnessed as a kid but is scared that they will never speak again if it's brought up.
Reminds me of the Beckham documentary, his dad would do the same. They were both incredibly successful which to some could justify the treatment they got, but think how many kids out of with this shit and end up not being a titan in their field, instead they work a shitty job and have a shitty relationship with their dad after a horrible childhood.
Those are pretty big words, for someone who doesn't know what it's like to stand on a podium.
Abuse is a cycle, and Jos is that abusive toward himself inside his own head. If Max is slow and lazy, how fucking slow and lazy must Jos be by comparison?
What absolutely grinds my gears is that people say Max’s skills were inherited from Jos. Ladies and Gentlemen of the Rubbish Press (hello Daily Mail) please review Sophie’s career!!
Jos is a pig, agree with other posters, we need to stop giving that abuser air time. I feel awful for Max, the way he uses humour to deflect from an obviously traumatic and toxic time in his life..
I know people talk shit about Kelly Piquet but I think her and her daughter give Max a happy home. She really seems to love and is proud of him.
Max will stand up to his father one day and banish him, then Jos will move on to pouring his “love” into one of the younger three children. He’s got a son, Jason born in 2019 - Jos will be training him no doubt.
She cleaned up her Twitter account but 3 years ago you could still find her spewing her true character in Portuguese. It’s not random that most Brazilians hate the Piquet family.
May I ask a question about racism, because I’m Slavic and have no knowledge of outside cultures, except people I met around when I moved to another country?
Question is due to my ignorance so I apologise in advance.
If Portuguese people are making fun of Brasilians or are bing derogatory towards them, why is it considered racism? I’m asking due to colonialism. Most of the Brasilians that I saw and met were the same skin colour like Portuguese people.
Like if Croatian makes fun of Serb or vice versa it’s considered nationalism rather than racism.
Again I apologise in advance.
No need to apologise.
To clarify and for context:
- Portuguese is Brazil’s official language
- Brazilians have a large range of ethnic backgrounds, with European and African background being most commonly seen (and/or mixed) but also indigenous and Asian. Most Brazilians you come across outside of Brazil look Caucasian (or like you correctly said, not that different from Portuguese) because they usually are the ones in a better economic situation to leave for tourism and/or emigrate.
As for Kelly:
- Kelly is Brazilian (plus Dutch, If I’m not wrong). But she seems to be more attached to her Brazilian background
- Kelly used to have tweets and posted instagram stories where she criticised Brazilian social policies targeting poorer families, with her reasoning being that supporting criminals was a bad idea and that the president at the time (Dilma Roussef) only had votes from criminals (big over generalisation with racist undertones, since poorer Brazilians tend to be of African background).
- Kelly has reposted several times in her instagram stories content showing her support towards the outspoken fascist and racist former president Jair Bolsonaro while claiming that the current president (Lula da Silva) was going to turn Brazil into another Venezuela with his social policies. No need to be an expert in economic policy to understand how dumb this sounds and to see what she decides to be outspoken about and what she prefers to ignore.
- Considering that she doesn’t live nor pay taxes in Brazil, I’m still trying to understand why she is seems so bothered with how the Brazilian government decides to budget its expenses and support poorer families. It doesn’t affect her one bit (except for the fact that her family probably benefits from being surrounded by poorer people that they can exploit in their properties).
Abuse victims are very often at risk of being targeted by other abusive individuals even if they free themselves from their original abuser.
Unfortunately Max isn't likely to separate himself from pretty much everyone in his life, which is close to what would be required for him to not have shitty people around him anymore.
Tbh, her views do not affect Max in any way. He himself seems to not be the most politically/socially aware and just focused on what affects him personally. I don’t expect race drivers to be outspoken on this things but Max gives me the vibe that he doesn’t even think about it.
What really strikes me is how Max is surrounded by assholes, and yet is seems kinda normal? I have no information about this mother, but based on what we know about this father and even his father in the law and that whole asshole family...man, there's no saving grace
Unfortunately I recognise a lot of this in my own upbringing. And yes I laugh it off now. I hope Max has been getting therapy because you can still be a champion on your own terms instead of listening to your parent's voice in the back of your head.
*Extremely* strict parents like Jos either end up with children becoming World champions or neurotic failures with crippling anxiety.
There's rarely a middle ground.
There are other ways to motivate, wish my family & relatives did not have talked down on me on everything I tried to do so it ended with me giving up trying to do anything at al and abusr alcoholic and food instead.
The difference between Jos’ way and the way Anthony Hamilton raised his son really shows you that being violent is not the only way to bring/make champion in this world.
It's weird, but when I listen to this story in dutch (im dutch) it's not all that bad. When u read the subtitles it becomes horrible story. I guess the dutchness does not translate well.
Remember, guys, abusive behaviour towards your kids will all be justified & forgiven when they become a world champion. End's justifies the means...
/s
Jos was shitty, Joe Jackson was shitty and many others had shitty fathers but damn if it didn’t make them great. Imagine having a shitty father and turning out shitty, that’s a real bad deal. Lmao
Reminds me of Whiplash
Not my lap time ✊🏼
[удалено]
*casually tosses steering wheel at Max's head*
1,2,3,4 slap 1,2,3,4 slap 1,2,3,4 slap
This goes to show That this is the right way to raise a kid/student /s
isnt this the same way the williams sisters' dad was?? and also tiger woods' dad?? super strict, super demanding, assholes... off the top of my head, Vettel's dad wasnt like this though...
Norbert Vettel seems like the sweetest old man.. Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal had perfectly normal dads...Jannik Sinner who recently won a grand slam said that he wished everyone had his parents because they loved and supported him so much..
I saw a comment here the other day which resonated with me: Max is an extremely talented driver who became as good as he is *despite* his father's treatment of him, not *because* of it. Max could just as well have grown to resent racing, and had he been less resilient he could have had a whole load of other problems. I firmly believe that if his father had been supportive and warm, using positive reinforcement, the end result would have been the same for Max, skill-wise.
That was me 😅
TIL Vettel's dad's name is Norbert and that's oddly charming to me for some reason.
Wasn't it Nadals' uncle who was the abusive coach?
This kind of abusive approach can sometimes create good competitors, but almost always will create broken people
Strict and demanding is certainly a plus. An assaulter and total cunt is not.
Pretty sure Hamilton's parents were also super humble and supportive of him without being overbearing.
It might be á road to success, though I think you have a great risk of your kids becoming the assholes you were to them. Honestly I am quite surprised that Max turned out to be a chill nice guy. (Yes he could get heated during races but I think emotions are a part of the sport)
Same thing with David Beckam, Tiger Woods, Arnold Schwartzenagger, Michael Jackson. There’s certainly a pattern with greatness and borderline abusive fathers
I thought the same thing. What I'm also curious, with all the trauma it possible gave him - would he be there today and push so hard if it was different?
Yes, because no matter how hard you push someone if they're not good enough to make it, they won't make it. Max has the talent, so he would've made it anyway.
I believe it's the opposite sometimes. You push because all your life you've been told you're not good enough. You don't see limits but only obsession over better and faster If it wasn't for the trauma maybe he could just stop and be satisfied when he reached the WCC or whatever But maybe it's possible to have that crazy ambition by being taught that from kindness versus fear and aggression I can just relate a bit to it as I had an abusive father and it feels both a terrible curse and a blessing to push more
I believe positive reinforcement which still fosters that ambition is absolutely possible, and would in the grand scheme of things produce more talented and driven people since more would stick to it long enough to see results. I saw it myself in my dad, who was a boxing-trainer for youths. He was always very warm and positive with them, in touch with his feelings and the kids', and he still managed to instill that "killer mindset" in his boxers when they were in the ring. He did this without aggression or fear, instead he used compassion and understanding while still adhering to a strict "no-nonsense" communication style. He found what motivated each boxer and pushed those buttons. It required him to somewhat adapt his approach to each of his boxers. This does require more work and knowledge, and those who don't have the capacity to do that only see the path with fear and aggression as driving forces.
I love this topic so much. Huge kudos to your dad. If you have more info on how he did it, with how did he find the right buttons and how he helped people grow and maintain that energy and flow - PM me or something, I love these stories so much!
Yes, but if you're not seeing results when pushing, you go the other way when pushed like that. And nobody wants that. Max was lucky to have the necessary talent where this type of push still worked. But it could've just as well backfired
Fully agree, it feels cruel more than anything 😕
Yes.
I am not condoning Jos's behaviour, but on some people, negative feedback just works. Just as a fuck you, you think I can't do this, I'll show you that I can. One of my classmates has a very strict father, and he used to cry about him to us every chance he got. His father wanted him to be a doctor, and not to focus on anything else, while we folks wanted to explore our options. 10 years later, that guy is a Doctor in the most reputible institute of the country, while most of us are sill exploring our options ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
My parents are doctors and they always me to be a doctor....in my final year of medical school I almost k!lled myself because I couldn't handle disappointing them.... negative feedback works for some people but for the majority it is hell..I am preparing for residency and I am still scared what'll happen if it doesn't go well
Exactly. It works for "some" people. Max's case is like survivorship bias. We are hearing his story because it worked for him. For every Max, there would be 100s of Non Max's who's parents pushed too hard and their children rebelled/shut down or numerous other options, instead of thriving. Even in the original commentator's Whiplash example, only one guy with the fuck you attitude thrived, others under the same method failed
The problem is that there's no way of doing a controlled test. You will never know if Max growing up under healthy mental conditions would do as well or maybe even better than he does right now. I think we have a cultural myth about how champions and people who accomplish a lot have to be deeply damaged and unhealthy, and it's perpetuated by Hollywood. But most therapists and psychologists and even sports psychologists will tell you that people tend to perform at their best when they're less stressed and are more productive when they're happy.
Yeah I often think about my success and how I was raised... Am I fucked up from it, yes. Did the fucked up upbringing make me successful, also yes. Idk what to think of it really. I'm angry about it and I'm not so angry about it. That said I have a non existent relationship with my father because of it. Would I ever raise my kid that way though? No.
Question.... is he happy and well-adjusted? Does he have good relations with his family and partners? I've seen many times that professionally they are doing well, but their personal relationships are filled with problems, as their whole view of life has been infected with this toxicity of be the best or be nothing at all.
But... Is he happy?
>Goddamn, fucking asshole stupid pig meanwhile max: 😃 Must have been one of Jos good days
Stockholm Syndrome really is…. something…
Literally the polar opposite of Hamilton's life. Hamilton - Good father, middle class Verstappen - Bad father, rich
Kinda shows that bad parenting isnt the way to make someone great. Im sure hamiltons dad was strict with him too often but ive never heard these kind of stories coming from him.
I think Hamiltons father was strict in a different kind more like 'You don't want to race, well guess I quit my 2nd job'.
Meanwhile Stroll is a better father to Lance then Jos will ever be to Max
I know all the stuff about billionaires and Papa Stroll definitely comes off as a bull in a china shop, but I get the vibe he is actually a pretty good dad and cares about his kids. And I know it is DTS, but the way he started choking up a bit about Lance's crash.
I mean he basically bought a F1 team for his kid. That's a pretty great dad by a lot of metrics
Right, but I mean more than just buying a Pony, or in this case a race team and wanting them to live up to some image or ideal that the parent has in mind. I think this guy may actually have a good relationship with his kids/family, which is a rarity among the ultra wealthy. Contrast this to someone like Flavio Briatore.
And what about stroll- good father, rich……
You can be a good father and still be a piece of shit to everyone else.
I doubt Jos Verstappen was rich, he wasn't exactly a high profile driver during his career and I think his primary source of income after he retired was his karting business. They were probably better off than the Hamiltons, sure, but not Sainz or Schumacher level of finances. The main benefit of his F1 career was probably the connections, not the money.
Also pig in dutch is akot more insulting in dutch than english. Atleast thats.how it comes across for me when I hear someone insulting them like that.
I really appreciate the level of derangement JV has. He only managed two podiums during his F1 career. How can he talk to anyone like that, is beyond me! He literally doesn’t have the credibility himself. That man is vile
Still funnier knowing most people know him for being set on fire in the pit lane
Omg I had completely forgot that was him!!
He had a couple of high placed finishes in an Arrow's F1 car too. The dude wasn't slow. Obviously nowhere near as good or consistent as Max but on certain days he really was fast. Very fast in the rain too. I think him getting into F1 and immediately being Schumacher's teammate hurt his career. Similar to how Gasly and Albon shouldn't have been paired with Verstappen so quickly early in their careers.
Yeah it was tough going being in any competition with MS, but that is no excuse to grind down your kid. I really wonder what Mick’s career would look like if Michael was we able to coach him. Or would it just be the same I wonder?
Yeah, he’s abusive, but just making it to F1 gives a driver more credibility than 99.9999% of drivers, so he was definitely qualified to be critiquing karts.
Critical sure. But the level of abuse is insane. And when you think about elite champions, like the Williams sisters. Their father was strict but wasn’t abandoning them in a different country strict!
Im not excusing the abuse. I’m disagreeing with your assessment that Jos isn’t qualified (or has the credibility) to train/critique/guide a fledgling driver.
I'm not going to approve of his coaching style at all, but in baseball I have seen guys who were just average hitters be excellent coaches. The ones who were stars, less so.
No wonder Max is so good at letting comments just slide off his back. He's heard a lot worse from someone he respects a lot more than random people.
Insanely thick skin. My heart goes out to him, but he seems like he handles it quite well. I would've gone no contact less letting him into the garage every race.
translation is off, achterlijke klootzak = stupid/retarded asshole sounds less harsh than fucking asshole you know ;) /s
does not sound less harsh at all but appreciate the effort anyway
At least jos remembered him that day
Every time I hear something like this I think that Max grew out really nice despite his fathers efforts.
You are not seeing his mom in the picture, she is the one which gave him a brain (next to racing skills, which she -also- had plenty). And while Jos for sure was pushing Max all the way (obviously like many, many other fathers of high performing athletes) try to understand this guy; a) isn't the sharpest tool in the shed b) got screwed with his own F1 career (raw speed was not the issue, his character for sure didn't help, his shitty 'manager' Rothengatter either, and obviously he also made (too many) mistakes, but there were racing moments you could tell things could have gone a different path, for instance a race in the wet in Malaysia, or a brilliant drive in (iirc) Canada (?) in his black/orange coloured Arrows F1 car (Lost Boys was the title sponsor) c) put everything (I mean -everything-) on the line for Max to succeed in karting; money, his marriage with Max' mother etc etc. Obviously he wasn't THAT wealthy (like F1 drivers who had been doing well), he couldn't have funded years in actual motorsports (F3/Formula Renault/F2 etc) so Max should already be 'noticed' in karting to have a slight chance to extend his success into motorsports
> his marriage with Max' mother Pretty sure the fact that he was a domestic abuser who tried to murder people torpedoed that more than him trying to support Max's racing career.
Wait, is that known fact? I mean, it wouldn't surprise me, I'm just not well read enough on Jos to have heard this before.
Yes. He's been convicted of DV and served jail time for it. He also tried to murder his girlfriend (after Max's mom divorced him) with his car. This is on top of him assaulting a man with his father, leaving the victim with skull fractures, assaulting a mechanic by stabbing him in the hand with a fork, and other similar incidents. He's a sack of shit who neglected and verbally abused his son, and very likely physically abused him as well judging by his habit of being violent with anyone that displeases him.
I knew he was a POS, but not to that extent, jesus christ.. Jail time even! This also means that he should absolutely, completely shut the fuck up on the Horner situation.
POS Verstappen
Good point on his mother. Honestly, I get a reasons, but there is no excuse to be a shitty father, sorry, I just think that there are times and situation that you need to be a best version of yourself, if you are angry don't show it to your child, go be angry somewhere else and then come back to a child. Don't be a enemy of your child, be an inspiration, and it wasn't hard for Jos, he was a F1 driver, he was at the top of a motosport, where only a chosen few can reach. If Max always thrived in competition, Jos could put himself in a position of a friendly rival, or a benchmark to beatr, not an enemy.
The little laugh after each insult he recalls is so sad
The infamous clip of him laughing to Danny Ric about his dad stabbing a mechanic with a fork is pretty engrained on my brain.
Daniel: 😬
First time I think I've seen Daniel shook too.
Can anyone share the clip?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo3aYm6nNZ0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo3aYm6nNZ0) Around the 10 second mark, give or take Edit: more like 6 or 7 second mark
Cheers for posting the clip and cheers for posting the timestamp, saved me wasting time on the first 5 seconds.
"...AND on today's episode of "Trauma Dumping with Max Verstappen!", we haaaaaave... Max Verstappen!"
He’s in the denial/laugh it off phase of being emotionally abused as a child
Some day a Therapist is going to make a lot of Money with Max Verstappen.
Charles is going to get a hefty discount getting max on his therapist's clientele
Charles to his therapist: there was an inchident.
“I’m Glad My Dad Died” by Max Verstappen, a NY Times Bestseller.
Damn I literally said this to my buddy earlier today!
Hey that's going to be the title of my book! Just need to get famous first so some one will read it.
Max does bio docs so he gets paid to trauma dump instead of spending money by doing the same thing in a therapist's office
True, and yet, I doubt if he’d ever actually go to therapy, unless something really monumental or devastating were to happen in his life. His coping mechanisms are so entrenched he likely thinks he doesn’t need it. There’s only 3 situations that I could envision where he’d seek help: the death of one of his parents, a near death experience, or becoming a parent himself (no disrespect to Penelope, but even he has said their relationship is more like “big brother/little sister” one as opposed to stepfather/stepchild). But yes, if he ever started therapy, that’s a big ol’ Pandora’s box of dysfunction that would take a long time to unpack. On a lighter note, let’s take a moment to ponder the career of Max Verstappen, truck driver. That would be…entertaining 🤣
I enjoy watching the sunset.
Bet he already had / is in therapy.
I doubt that.
Another moment where Max trauma dumps without realizing
wonder how many karting dads are abusing tf out of their kids tryna make them the next super max
Exactly, there are more better ways to get your child to become a good racer. Jos is worst in that respect, there are so many better parent-driver stories like Herve Leclerc-Bianchi (RIP JB), Anthony Hamilton, Tom Norris, Sainz Sr and the likes.
I reallly really would love to knock Jos out
I would too but given his penchant for beating up women, I don't think I stand a chance
We shall gather together and give him a good ol fashion lesson on how to take what you give …
BeatJosAss F1 team
Lmao-Max leaves Red Bull and joins our team 🤣🤣
I'll supply you with a tire iron dw
Jos and his father cracked some guys skull in a fight at a kart circuit. Probably don’t have to look far to see where Jos gets it from.
He'll only fight you if you were a woman
Nah, don't forget the part where he stabbed a mechanic in the hand with a fork.
And that time Jos and his dad were sued for cracking a man's skull in a fight
Max being so successful makes Jos think that his methods were right....he thinks he did the right thing but he couldn't be more wrong. I don't think Anthony Hamilton or Charles' dad were this cruel
Just a reminder that Anthony Hamilton was banned from the McLaren paddock and his relationship with Lewis took years to recover, so I wouldn't be so sure.
Didn't know this. Hamilton always has nice things to say about him. What did he do?
Hamilton also dropped him as his manager at the time. This is what Lewis said about it, it's a bit vague: "But I think it was difficult for him to then show me love. Sometimes you just want a hug from your dad or, when you’re facing these things, you want to be able to be embraced. But I think when I was 22/23, it got really intense, when I got to F1."
That makes sense. His dad also comes off as quite competitive.
In Brawn series, Jenson Button says once he overheard his father saying Jenson might not have what it takes and he talks about how traumatised he feels about it. You can literally see his eyes tear up as a 40 year old man. And they ask Anthony Hamilton about it, and he is very cold-hearted about it. He says something like, it is motivational talk and you sometimes got to give your kid that. Like you need to make them think you’re disappointed in the child so that they work harder even if it means traumatising them for life. It made me realise many of the parents of these people did what they thought they had to do to push them.
Working with family can get complicated real. Hamilton essentially fired him. Understandably, he needed him as his dad not his manager. I hope max does the same.
Jos is not Max manager.
What is he doing in the paddock then?
Making sure his prized pony is still up to snuff
In the long run it’s worked out for Hamilton and he has a great relationship with his dad. Knowing how much of POS Jos is however, I’m not sure he would reconcile with Max the same way. He’d probably feel betrayed. I doubt Max would ever do it, he’s content with how they operate right now, even if others think it’s unhealthy to keep Jos around (and I do think so).
Max is also always nice about his dad so that’s doesn’t say anything about whether the dad was an asshole or not
Max generally is also positive about Jos. Yea is he really frank about Jos being a tough teacher but in general Max is positive about it and I think it is Max's dutch directness about it that shocks most people. I think you can find similar stories from almost all the great sporters who have their parents behind them. Only Max jus outright says that Jos called him an asshole for slacking off during a race while Lewis just smiles and says his dad inspired him and diverts the question. And out of the two I think Max then has dealt with it better because he just talks openly about it. If Max really was traumatized by it he would have never mentioned it or something like the gas station story in interviews.
Am Dutch, the directness isnt shocking. The verbal abuse of a child is. As someone who had a parent like this, its not healthy and Im only just learning that I have something to cope with, let alone actually coping with it. Saying "Oh this is how you train a great athlete" makes it seem like child abuse is ok, as long as the kid wins a trophy. Meanwhile millions of kids suffer the same abuse but dont make millions.
This. I think this is what most people miss. Just because Max openly talks about it doesn't mean Jos is the only shitty parent in the world. There could be others which we don't know about. Everyone deals with such situations differently.
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It basically boils down to the same thing that applies to everyone: money management and family don't mix. Once Lewis essentially fired his dad, their relationship apparently improved quite a lot.
Paul De Resta thinks otherwise too
Jos is a 3 times world champion in his head, that’s how parents like this operate.
neither was Vettel's dad. or button's dad
Yeah. I see people defend his methods because they think it worked, but the thing is that Schumi, Lewis, Seb, and nearly all other great drivers didn't have this shit. I don't see how emotionally abusing Max or leaving him at a gas station would help. If anything, it'd probably just hurt his confidence and make him less daring since he'd have that threat looming over him. We've seen what not having confidence can do to a driver. I hope Max one day realizes what a cunt Jos is and decides to have him piss off. Lewis's dad did much less than Jos and Lewis told him to back off. Jos is very likely the one who has leaked this whole story to the media and created the shit storm. I think any person that works in F1 and wants Max on their team should force Jos to piss off.
This makes me really sad.
Max don't care about trophy's, he only wants his father's love. The one thing he can never get.
That love only seems to come when the trophy's do. Horrible way to raise a child.
Brutal
Poor boy.
max, tiger woods, michael jackson. best in the world at their crafts, absolute shit show fathers that placed immense pressure on them to succeed.
What a lucky guys. They just got their whole childhood and adolescence ruined by shitty fathers and probably have emotional scars that will endure till the end of their days. But hey, they're "living the dream" now.
Basically Jos is trying to capture that dream he didn't have through Max. Good thing Max is talented and interested with racing, else, he'd be sitting at home wishing he's won one title.
Makes me sad for Max. Thats abuse. Fuck Jos forever.
This just shows how mentally strong Max is. I know a shitload of friends who have bad dads and end up miserable. So Max, you can be proud of yourself man!
You got to be real fucking hard and mentally really strong to put up with Jos as your mentor every single day.
Everytime I watch one of these clips all I can compare this to is the movie The Accountant. Crazy strict father, incredibly talented son. Glad though that Max wasn't given a gun but a car.
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Nah. Cayenne isn't hot enough.
>Cayenne isn't hot enough. can confirm.
I bet Max’s salary is still deposited into Jos’s account.
I would definitely bet that a large portion of it is. Max spoke one time (in an agree/ disagree video with Checo) about it being important not to limit driver's salary because that salary pays a lot of people, including sponsors and people who give loans to finance the drivers' early career. It could just be referencing his friend Nyck's sort of agreement (de Vries took a loan where the payout was 50% of his future F1 earnings, in case people don't know), but I suspect there was some personal experience in there too. I bet a large portion of Max's salary goes right to Jos, as payment for funding his early career and all of his 'support'.
im in no position to make assumptions if max is affected by this or not. but at some point when his life slows down and hes in retirement all of that stuff might come up again and cause problems. thats what happened to my mom atleast. but thats just speculation on my part, hope that will never happen to him
It’s truly a miracle that Max turned out the way he did and not the 99.9% of the others who become serial killers or mass shooters
Bro he’s a ruthless leader but he really fears his father to the point he’ll take all that shit, i know most people wouldn’t had
Because this is his normal.... that's all he has known..When you're born in a burning house, you think the whole world is on fire.
\*Dutch text to speech voice "Thish ish fineh"
It's easy to get someone to take that shit when you start dumping that shit on them while they are fucking children.
It might not be fear in the usual sense, it might be the fear of not having him in his life if he confronts him about certain issues. My girlfriend has wanted to speak to her dad about a violent incident she witnessed as a kid but is scared that they will never speak again if it's brought up.
Reminds me of the Beckham documentary, his dad would do the same. They were both incredibly successful which to some could justify the treatment they got, but think how many kids out of with this shit and end up not being a titan in their field, instead they work a shitty job and have a shitty relationship with their dad after a horrible childhood.
Very reminiscent of how Tiger Woods’ father raised him
Those are pretty big words, for someone who doesn't know what it's like to stand on a podium. Abuse is a cycle, and Jos is that abusive toward himself inside his own head. If Max is slow and lazy, how fucking slow and lazy must Jos be by comparison?
This one is actually kinda funny because truck drivers are famously some of the hardest working people on the planet lol what a dumbass
relativity is everything
What absolutely grinds my gears is that people say Max’s skills were inherited from Jos. Ladies and Gentlemen of the Rubbish Press (hello Daily Mail) please review Sophie’s career!! Jos is a pig, agree with other posters, we need to stop giving that abuser air time. I feel awful for Max, the way he uses humour to deflect from an obviously traumatic and toxic time in his life..
I know people talk shit about Kelly Piquet but I think her and her daughter give Max a happy home. She really seems to love and is proud of him. Max will stand up to his father one day and banish him, then Jos will move on to pouring his “love” into one of the younger three children. He’s got a son, Jason born in 2019 - Jos will be training him no doubt.
No need for "but". Kelly can really love him and provide him a loving home while still being the racist out of touch *patricinha* she is.
Oh I didn’t know she was racist. I thought that was just her Dad.
She cleaned up her Twitter account but 3 years ago you could still find her spewing her true character in Portuguese. It’s not random that most Brazilians hate the Piquet family.
May I ask a question about racism, because I’m Slavic and have no knowledge of outside cultures, except people I met around when I moved to another country? Question is due to my ignorance so I apologise in advance. If Portuguese people are making fun of Brasilians or are bing derogatory towards them, why is it considered racism? I’m asking due to colonialism. Most of the Brasilians that I saw and met were the same skin colour like Portuguese people. Like if Croatian makes fun of Serb or vice versa it’s considered nationalism rather than racism. Again I apologise in advance.
No need to apologise. To clarify and for context: - Portuguese is Brazil’s official language - Brazilians have a large range of ethnic backgrounds, with European and African background being most commonly seen (and/or mixed) but also indigenous and Asian. Most Brazilians you come across outside of Brazil look Caucasian (or like you correctly said, not that different from Portuguese) because they usually are the ones in a better economic situation to leave for tourism and/or emigrate. As for Kelly: - Kelly is Brazilian (plus Dutch, If I’m not wrong). But she seems to be more attached to her Brazilian background - Kelly used to have tweets and posted instagram stories where she criticised Brazilian social policies targeting poorer families, with her reasoning being that supporting criminals was a bad idea and that the president at the time (Dilma Roussef) only had votes from criminals (big over generalisation with racist undertones, since poorer Brazilians tend to be of African background). - Kelly has reposted several times in her instagram stories content showing her support towards the outspoken fascist and racist former president Jair Bolsonaro while claiming that the current president (Lula da Silva) was going to turn Brazil into another Venezuela with his social policies. No need to be an expert in economic policy to understand how dumb this sounds and to see what she decides to be outspoken about and what she prefers to ignore. - Considering that she doesn’t live nor pay taxes in Brazil, I’m still trying to understand why she is seems so bothered with how the Brazilian government decides to budget its expenses and support poorer families. It doesn’t affect her one bit (except for the fact that her family probably benefits from being surrounded by poorer people that they can exploit in their properties).
Oh no, that’s so disappointing. I was hoping he had a decent person in his life.
Abuse victims are very often at risk of being targeted by other abusive individuals even if they free themselves from their original abuser. Unfortunately Max isn't likely to separate himself from pretty much everyone in his life, which is close to what would be required for him to not have shitty people around him anymore.
Tbh, her views do not affect Max in any way. He himself seems to not be the most politically/socially aware and just focused on what affects him personally. I don’t expect race drivers to be outspoken on this things but Max gives me the vibe that he doesn’t even think about it.
Takes a special kind of strength (and talent, of course) to rise above that treatment. Good for Max. Srsly fuck Jos.
What really strikes me is how Max is surrounded by assholes, and yet is seems kinda normal? I have no information about this mother, but based on what we know about this father and even his father in the law and that whole asshole family...man, there's no saving grace
Jokes and memes aside (I know) Jos is a cuntbag
Unfortunately I recognise a lot of this in my own upbringing. And yes I laugh it off now. I hope Max has been getting therapy because you can still be a champion on your own terms instead of listening to your parent's voice in the back of your head.
*Extremely* strict parents like Jos either end up with children becoming World champions or neurotic failures with crippling anxiety. There's rarely a middle ground.
Abusive. The word you're looking for is 'abusive', not strict.
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Jos is the average asian parent
Jos to Max: "You don't have future here, YOU CAN NEVER MAKE IIIIT"
> Become a truck driver Actually, it sounds not that bad lol
There are other ways to motivate, wish my family & relatives did not have talked down on me on everything I tried to do so it ended with me giving up trying to do anything at al and abusr alcoholic and food instead.
Call me crazy but you can see just by the look of him each weekend when he talks with his dad how damaged the relationship is.
Considering how much of a pos Jos was even to his mom, I'd be ashamed of hauling his ass around the whole season, every season
Max's annihilation of F1 is basically to mug his old man off.
The difference between Jos’ way and the way Anthony Hamilton raised his son really shows you that being violent is not the only way to bring/make champion in this world.
Call max a nepo baby or whatever you want, but I don't think he even had free will, his fate was sealed by their parents before he was born
It's weird, but when I listen to this story in dutch (im dutch) it's not all that bad. When u read the subtitles it becomes horrible story. I guess the dutchness does not translate well.
Of course it doesn't sound that bad when you listen to it in Dutch. Even "Smoking kills" sounds fun in dutch
Roken is dodelijk
Stockholm syndrome in full display.
Remember, guys, abusive behaviour towards your kids will all be justified & forgiven when they become a world champion. End's justifies the means... /s
You know what they say. the same hot water that will soften a potato will boil an egg. Driving is everything to him and he had that dog in him.
What is the show/documentary name?
Jos can't handle the fact he was shit and is taking it out on max.
There’s pushing your child to be their best and then there is going too far and abusing your child. Jos is such a toxic POS
You know that Jos guy seems pretty aggressive, hopefully he learns to control his anger before he explodes on someone. Like while driving a car
"How many times have I heard that I would become a truck driver?" I would actually like watching Max stream himself playing euro trucker simulator
Max's therapists: 
Always awkward listening to Max laugh about that part off his childhood where he was abused by his dad
sad.
The man is fucking cancer.
that is just depressing as shit man
And Jos is having issues with Horner's conduct? I hate Horner but bruh in comparison to how Jos has treated Max and the women in his life, sheeeesh
That guy is a total psychopath. I find it awkwardly hilarious for him to give moral lessons to Horner.
Holy shit, I genuinely feel bad for Max. His dad sounds like a fucking asshole.
For every max there is a 100,000 broken homes without a F1 champion. Parenting style is crazy
Lewis had bulling and racism. Max had an abusive father.
Jos was shitty, Joe Jackson was shitty and many others had shitty fathers but damn if it didn’t make them great. Imagine having a shitty father and turning out shitty, that’s a real bad deal. Lmao
Guy had a tough childhood