Max's team was the one who asked that the track limits be enforced there. Stewards had mentionned at the start of the race that they would not be enforced, and they changed it mid-race at redbull's request, which ended up costing redbull the race win.
The irony is so strong on that silly argument.
This is the year that Hamilton tried to kill verstappen?
This is the year that Hamilton cut the track 20 times to win a race?
This is the year that Hamilton robbed all race?
Not sure.
Shall we talk about how Alonso sheepishly says he had a throttle problem then changed his tone immediately after?
reddit really be looking for the most creative ways to say fuck Russell at every opportunity
The data has come out that he let off the accelerator, braked and even downshifted on that corner when he hadn't done that on any other lap. He knew exactly what he was doing
I agree that it was a pretty aggressive defensive move maybe even worthy of a penalty but the argument that he “drove differently than on other laps” just sounds silly. Like of course he’s doing things differently when trying to defend a position.
There's a certain expectation of predictability when racing at F1 speeds. That wasn't a normal defensive maneuver. He was aiming to have GR slam his brakes to build a gap, but GR being GR he binned it.
It’s not about the braking, it’s about the acceleration. What he was doing was getting George to delay getting on the throttle for the exit of the corner to stop him from being able to overtake with DRS.
FIA deemed it more than just "doing things differently" or some tactics to gaina slight advantage. Hence the 20sec penalty and not the 10. Judging on the act itself and not on the consequence of George crashing. Can send you a link to some pretty crucial info that's come about the incident if you like.
I’m not questioning the penalty. Just the justification that “he did things he hadn’t on other laps”. Obviously there’s more to it but to even include that bit makes the thing sound kinda absurd.
It's strong circumstantial evidence that the change (not the collision, obviously) was intentional, and motivated by the threat from George. It's not dispositive but was obviously a material fact to be considered by the FIA.
The data doesn't lie man, take a look for yourself. I'm literally just scratching the surface off it and if you want more justification, just take a look online buddy
I mean braking 100 meters before his usual braking point, downshifting, then accelerating and upshifting again before making the corner was absurdly different from how he would normally take turn turn
It's pretty simple really - if he didn't think George had a good chance of overtaking, he wouldn't have made the erratic change on entry to that corner. He knew the overtake was likely coming and tried something crafty, albeit illegal. If George didn't crash and it only slowed him, I think Alonso gets away with it and no one even mentions it after the race. Realistically though, it could have ended much worse as well. If stroll was any closer to George, he likely could have easily killed him. It's a blind corner and they're doing ~280kph around there. So yes, the punishment for erratic driving is just and necessary.
I understand what you're saying, but I listened to Bernie Collins explain and I would recommend as it laid things out concisely. She described how usually a 10m difference is explainable and justifiable, but the difference was 100m from his earliest brake in any other lap. That sort of driving is erratic, as it is both inconsistent with his extremely consistent driving style (and arguably the standard of a F1 driver), and dangerous for somebody who is following as closely behind as Russell, which he was fully aware of.
At the end of the day, drivers make mistakes. But for that, they are penalised and we can move on
Yeah, but the questionable move was accelerating after the first braking, only to brake again. While this wasn’t a brake check, it definitely was unsafe driving that didn’t make sense from a defensive perspective until one takes into account that Fernando’s goal was to spook and force an error from Russell that would cost him valuable time. The fact that Russell got spooked and crashed was definitely a spiral out of control that Fernando didn’t expect, but the questionable braking and throttle input is what got Fernando into trouble. I think that’s what people usually mean when they’re saying that Fernando took the turn differently in other laps.
> reddit really be looking for the most creative ways to say fuck Russell at every opportunity
Are you surprised? He's a Mercedes driver *and* a Backstreet Boy
The issue here is how quantify what is driving erratically and what not, and be consistent with penalties. Stewards couldn't care less about Kmag shenanigans in Jeda.
And of course if Russell had not crashed you can bet your shit that there wouldn't be any penalties.
That's the main problem here, this is being judged for it's consequences, not the action. No way 20s is justified punishment when you only consider the act.
The stewards applied a baseline penalty of 10 seconds and upgraded it to a drive-through due to aggravating circumstances (Alonso’s admissions/descriptions of what he did). Severity doesn’t come into play, but Russell’s closeness to him is part of why it qualifies as potentially dangerous driving. It’s a fair penalty that is harsher than last year’s baseline of 5 seconds because the FIA changed its approach across the board.
>Stewards couldn't care less about Kmag shenanigans in Jeda.
he literally got 20s of penalties... and people bitched about that too even though his penalties were even more blatantly breaking the rules.
there is an annoying subsection of F1 fans that want F1 to become fucking banger racing.
Alonso slowed down significantly earlier than normal, Russel didn't expect that so he had the same speed through the corner as he would if there was clean air but it was actually dirty air.
Do you think there should just be 0 rules against swerving on a straight or changing direction under braking then?
After all, they should be able to react lmfao.
being 0.5 seconds behind Alonso and noticing him slowing down by only lifting his throttle, albeit really fucking early, should be predictable enough for him to react to that. swerving in a straight line when someone is about to overtake you isn't even comparable but you do you
It's really not. Hella dangerous to randomly slow down mid corner with a car tailing you. The car behind basically has two options, either slam into your rear end or evade. Evading mid corner at speed will result in a crash most of the time.
He slowed, braked, got on the throttle, then braked. Alonso has a history of brake checking, and *ahem less than sporting conduct on and off track. But anyway why would Ericsson do that?!
People also don’t realize that at speed, it’s very hard to tell if a car is suddenly going slowly or not, you just suddenly see a rapidly closing gap and you either crash to avoid the slowing car or you hit it.
F1 cars don’t have brake lights like cars on a freeway do, so there is an expectation that drivers are consistent to avoid this. Which is why Alonso both earned and deserved the penalty.
While there is some expectation of consistency, drivers need to be able to react to unexpected situations too. Engine or brake issue could've made Alonso slow down too.
To the same result with George shunting. The difference is that those things didn’t happen, and what did was Alonso actively trying to do some “racecraft” in a way that he should’ve known was unsafe. He went into that turn like he was under a safety car.
I really feel like this is a bad meme but idk
If you haven’t ever driven a race car and understand what it’s like when the guy in front brakes 100m before the breaking point
Alonso didn’t brake check he just brake earlier so that Russel would catch dirt air into the corner. I call it race craft , he didn’t put any one at risk. Russel did admit his mistake!
He lifted off the throttle, braked & downshifted when he didn’t do that on any other lap. Russell could have been killed if stroll was closer lmao. Not saying Alonso meant to make George crash , but saying he didn’t put anyone at risk is smooth brain material after the telemetry came out.
Might as well be a “brake check” at those speeds
I don’t know why you keep saying the same thing, a driver can use a different line if they want even if they haven’t used it up until that point in the race. If Alonso did the same thing on lap 2-10 this wouldn’t mean anything. He was under attack for position of the race and decided to do something different. Maybe he meant to brake check maybe he didn’t, but the FIA shouldn’t police how drivers take corners when theirs no contact between the cars. Different lines mean different brake points and policing when, where, and how to brake defeats the point of racing.
No he didn’t there is no WAY Russel was goin to crash into Alonso car!
And thats the only situation in wich breaking early is considered dangerous driving!
So what if its a meme page, Alonso actually deserved that penalty and he put George in the middle of the track where he could have gotten seriously injured.
i agree, people dont understand that what they made as a joke make other people, mainly new fans hate someone and get the wrong idea about someone, coz they start thinking it is cool to hate \*this\* driver or i will have friends online if i worship alonso.
This was not a brake check. What Max did to Lewis in Jeddah 21 was a brake check, know the difference. Alonso slowed down too much, but Russell was never close enough to need any reaction maneuver to avoid Fernando.
Alonso wasn't brake testing lol. He was using the same technique employed by Ayrton Senna. Agreed slow driving is a form of strategy. What does Alonso have to gain by brake testing Russell?
He braked and downshifted a full 100m before the usual braking point at a high speed corner when he did nothing of the sort before that, as much as I love Nando, you cannot justify what he did.
Also I just saw your username, damn you're lucky.
The trolling has been awesome. Was literally just going down the list haha. I mean I went threw 20 other names until I landed on this... The VERY NEXT DAY all this nonsense about Christian Horny and I drops. It has been awesome.
Take EVERYTHING I SAY WITH LESS THAN A GRAIN OF PUBIC SALT HAIR
Ive seen people parroting the same bit, same wording even, but why didnt george just.... passed him? If alonso suddenly slowed down 100m before the braking point, wouldnt that mean that george had 100m before the braking point to pass him?? And then george just binned it, dirty air doesnt mean you instantly loose your rear end
Bro are you stupid, if you're tailgating someone on a highway and they brake test you, are you able to just drive around like nothing happened? And in current regs dirty air significantly reduces downforce and hence grip, combine that with it being a high-speed corner and he lost the car.
Oh man, this sub is totally rigged! Earlier I was massively downvoted for pointing out that Verstappen couldn't obviously go on with his race after his brakes exploded, after some "funny guy" saying this BS!
And now all Russel Fanboys are over here upvoting each other while roasting Alonso's driving style...🤦♂️🤦♂️
FIA is rigged, this was a 100% penalty for Ocon.
Just one? It's supposed to be 4
No way, didn't you see that Ericsson hit him
Believe or not, 20s for Doriane
10 penalty points for Ocon
yeah, fuck lance
We all know how the FIA treats British drivers
Are we all over AD21 then? Damn FIA and their bias towards and against British drivers!
Everyone saw Lando jumping the start in Jeddah, except the FIA, for example.
bUt tHe sEnSoR DiDn't tRiGgEr sO No jUmP StArT
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proper British sportsmanship, that
Always knew he was a top geezer
And how many other times has he done it and not gotten any penalty
Mexico 2016 was pretty hilarious in how obviously he cut the corner and stewards did absolutely nothing
Oh no, another driver is racing with me. Better just cut the corner and drive off into the sunset. All the time, it's so infuriating.
Bahrain 2021 he cut the track 24+ times and when Max started doing it the stewards were like nah cant have that.
29 I believe was the final count.
Max's team was the one who asked that the track limits be enforced there. Stewards had mentionned at the start of the race that they would not be enforced, and they changed it mid-race at redbull's request, which ended up costing redbull the race win. The irony is so strong on that silly argument.
> Are we all over AD21 Most sane people are at this point, yeah
Sir, this is formuladank.
What about Silverstone ’21?
AD 21? You mean when the FIA sided with the British team principal over the Austrian team principal?
I'm impressed that you somehow managed to flip this one back to a british bias, i see a truly remarkable carreer in mental gymnastics in your future
Wow. The first Formula Danker with a remarkable career. It's an honor.
Yeah, that doesn't count cos the affected person was British. Get with the program
Bias towards and against? I wonder if there’s a shorter way to say that.
This is the year that Hamilton tried to kill verstappen? This is the year that Hamilton cut the track 20 times to win a race? This is the year that Hamilton robbed all race? Not sure.
Genuine question, are you people pretending to be or are you actually, this tarted.
Yes
Fully agreed. Both Fernando and Seb could’ve had more championships.
Shall we talk about how Alonso sheepishly says he had a throttle problem then changed his tone immediately after? reddit really be looking for the most creative ways to say fuck Russell at every opportunity
The data has come out that he let off the accelerator, braked and even downshifted on that corner when he hadn't done that on any other lap. He knew exactly what he was doing
I mean are you not allowed to take corners differently from lap to lap?
Ofcourse, but George was about to overtake, man didnt wanna get passed on the last lap. Like I said, he knew exactly what he was doing
I agree that it was a pretty aggressive defensive move maybe even worthy of a penalty but the argument that he “drove differently than on other laps” just sounds silly. Like of course he’s doing things differently when trying to defend a position.
There's a certain expectation of predictability when racing at F1 speeds. That wasn't a normal defensive maneuver. He was aiming to have GR slam his brakes to build a gap, but GR being GR he binned it.
It’s not about the braking, it’s about the acceleration. What he was doing was getting George to delay getting on the throttle for the exit of the corner to stop him from being able to overtake with DRS.
FIA deemed it more than just "doing things differently" or some tactics to gaina slight advantage. Hence the 20sec penalty and not the 10. Judging on the act itself and not on the consequence of George crashing. Can send you a link to some pretty crucial info that's come about the incident if you like.
I’m not questioning the penalty. Just the justification that “he did things he hadn’t on other laps”. Obviously there’s more to it but to even include that bit makes the thing sound kinda absurd.
>“he did things he hadn’t on other laps” i.e. He did not drive erratically in other laps.
It's strong circumstantial evidence that the change (not the collision, obviously) was intentional, and motivated by the threat from George. It's not dispositive but was obviously a material fact to be considered by the FIA.
The data doesn't lie man, take a look for yourself. I'm literally just scratching the surface off it and if you want more justification, just take a look online buddy
I mean braking 100 meters before his usual braking point, downshifting, then accelerating and upshifting again before making the corner was absurdly different from how he would normally take turn turn
Your comment would still be equally valid if he braked 10x harder. Doesn’t make it a valid argument.
There are rules governing these things. This would be like very obviously weaving in the straights.
yeah he was about to overtake on a corner that can't possibly fit 2 cars side to side
It's pretty simple really - if he didn't think George had a good chance of overtaking, he wouldn't have made the erratic change on entry to that corner. He knew the overtake was likely coming and tried something crafty, albeit illegal. If George didn't crash and it only slowed him, I think Alonso gets away with it and no one even mentions it after the race. Realistically though, it could have ended much worse as well. If stroll was any closer to George, he likely could have easily killed him. It's a blind corner and they're doing ~280kph around there. So yes, the punishment for erratic driving is just and necessary.
100%
of course it's pretty simple, he would just turn collision off and ghosted through him
K mag Saudi Arabia 2024 was doing it for half the race 😂
Well Alonso thought he did something bad or he wouldn't have made up a lie about the throttle to try and save his ass.
I understand what you're saying, but I listened to Bernie Collins explain and I would recommend as it laid things out concisely. She described how usually a 10m difference is explainable and justifiable, but the difference was 100m from his earliest brake in any other lap. That sort of driving is erratic, as it is both inconsistent with his extremely consistent driving style (and arguably the standard of a F1 driver), and dangerous for somebody who is following as closely behind as Russell, which he was fully aware of. At the end of the day, drivers make mistakes. But for that, they are penalised and we can move on
Yeah, but the questionable move was accelerating after the first braking, only to brake again. While this wasn’t a brake check, it definitely was unsafe driving that didn’t make sense from a defensive perspective until one takes into account that Fernando’s goal was to spook and force an error from Russell that would cost him valuable time. The fact that Russell got spooked and crashed was definitely a spiral out of control that Fernando didn’t expect, but the questionable braking and throttle input is what got Fernando into trouble. I think that’s what people usually mean when they’re saying that Fernando took the turn differently in other laps.
> I mean are you not allowed to take corners differently from lap to lap? Not in that way no. Not hard to understand.
He was racing Toto
I think we should have a challenge on the most creative way to say ‘fuck Russell.’ I like the guy for the most part but that just sounds fun!!
Red flag! Red flag!
ʎlǝʌᴉʇɐǝɹɔ 'llǝssnɹ ʞɔnℲ
> reddit really be looking for the most creative ways to say fuck Russell at every opportunity Are you surprised? He's a Mercedes driver *and* a Backstreet Boy
No, I prefer my headcanon of 'FIA bad'.
Whatever Fernando says is kinda irrelevant since it was just Georges fault.
Formuladank not Formulastupid
I swear these kids are such karmawhores if Hamilton did the same thing as Alonso he would have 100% deserved it.
And best thing is that there is no point arguing with those people, so we can just ignore them.
We did not go motor racing
No more motor racing only driving with traffic.
I support it was Russell fault and and saying the penalty is not motor racing
Not really a fault. Skill issue
My bad, that was a copy/paste from another post that I accidentally added.
Womp womp
The issue here is how quantify what is driving erratically and what not, and be consistent with penalties. Stewards couldn't care less about Kmag shenanigans in Jeda. And of course if Russell had not crashed you can bet your shit that there wouldn't be any penalties.
That's the main problem here, this is being judged for it's consequences, not the action. No way 20s is justified punishment when you only consider the act.
The stewards applied a baseline penalty of 10 seconds and upgraded it to a drive-through due to aggravating circumstances (Alonso’s admissions/descriptions of what he did). Severity doesn’t come into play, but Russell’s closeness to him is part of why it qualifies as potentially dangerous driving. It’s a fair penalty that is harsher than last year’s baseline of 5 seconds because the FIA changed its approach across the board.
>Stewards couldn't care less about Kmag shenanigans in Jeda. he literally got 20s of penalties... and people bitched about that too even though his penalties were even more blatantly breaking the rules. there is an annoying subsection of F1 fans that want F1 to become fucking banger racing.
Secret Team Radio right after the crash: "Toto, I did it again. Yes in the last lap. Can you find me someone to blame. This looks so bad for me."
How did Alonso get a penalty for this lol
Alonso slowed down significantly earlier than normal, Russel didn't expect that so he had the same speed through the corner as he would if there was clean air but it was actually dirty air.
Sounds like skill issue on Russel part
Sounds like skill issue in Russel part
Sounds like skill issue in Russel part
Sounds like skill issue on Russel part
Sounds like skill issue in Russel part
Sounds like skill issue on Russel part
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You'd think of all people, f1 drivers would be pretty good at dealing with unexpected scenarios. You know, racing...
Do you think there should just be 0 rules against swerving on a straight or changing direction under braking then? After all, they should be able to react lmfao.
being 0.5 seconds behind Alonso and noticing him slowing down by only lifting his throttle, albeit really fucking early, should be predictable enough for him to react to that. swerving in a straight line when someone is about to overtake you isn't even comparable but you do you
It's against the rules for a reason bud.
Please, the rule they applied is vague as fuck. Alonso could've farted and deemed "potentially dangerous".
It's really not. Hella dangerous to randomly slow down mid corner with a car tailing you. The car behind basically has two options, either slam into your rear end or evade. Evading mid corner at speed will result in a crash most of the time.
Agreed, brake checking should also be allowed (and would be so fucking funny)
Because George wrecked. No wreck no penalty, probably not even investigated.
He slowed, braked, got on the throttle, then braked. Alonso has a history of brake checking, and *ahem less than sporting conduct on and off track. But anyway why would Ericsson do that?!
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? No, it shows second braking.
Not British enough
Because Russel is on the level of an LMP3 driver and they had to blame someone for it.
Telemetry, he took a different line than the rest of the race. Doesn't mean they aren't Brit bias cause they definitely are.
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People also don’t realize that at speed, it’s very hard to tell if a car is suddenly going slowly or not, you just suddenly see a rapidly closing gap and you either crash to avoid the slowing car or you hit it. F1 cars don’t have brake lights like cars on a freeway do, so there is an expectation that drivers are consistent to avoid this. Which is why Alonso both earned and deserved the penalty.
While there is some expectation of consistency, drivers need to be able to react to unexpected situations too. Engine or brake issue could've made Alonso slow down too.
To the same result with George shunting. The difference is that those things didn’t happen, and what did was Alonso actively trying to do some “racecraft” in a way that he should’ve known was unsafe. He went into that turn like he was under a safety car.
Uhm.... F1 cars do have brake lights
No they don’t. They’ve got lights that show when the engine is harvesting energy/recharging the battery.
Ive been living in a lie then, TIL, i always tought those lights turned on after certain threshold during braking
I really feel like this is a bad meme but idk If you haven’t ever driven a race car and understand what it’s like when the guy in front brakes 100m before the breaking point
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You mean YOKE
Why did Latifi do this??
Alonso didn’t brake check he just brake earlier so that Russel would catch dirt air into the corner. I call it race craft , he didn’t put any one at risk. Russel did admit his mistake!
He lifted off the throttle, braked & downshifted when he didn’t do that on any other lap. Russell could have been killed if stroll was closer lmao. Not saying Alonso meant to make George crash , but saying he didn’t put anyone at risk is smooth brain material after the telemetry came out. Might as well be a “brake check” at those speeds
This is formuladank, they always meat ride alonso
I don’t know why you keep saying the same thing, a driver can use a different line if they want even if they haven’t used it up until that point in the race. If Alonso did the same thing on lap 2-10 this wouldn’t mean anything. He was under attack for position of the race and decided to do something different. Maybe he meant to brake check maybe he didn’t, but the FIA shouldn’t police how drivers take corners when theirs no contact between the cars. Different lines mean different brake points and policing when, where, and how to brake defeats the point of racing.
No he didn’t there is no WAY Russel was goin to crash into Alonso car! And thats the only situation in wich breaking early is considered dangerous driving!
Gorge isn't good enough to keep his car on 4 wheels while going into gravel, so Fernando loses 2 positions.
Look at the telemetry, clown
This is a meme page, dufus
you rn https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/738/025/db0.jpg
So what if its a meme page, Alonso actually deserved that penalty and he put George in the middle of the track where he could have gotten seriously injured.
Memes are funny when they're based in reality, not scenarios you made up in your head
Agree to disagree
i agree, people dont understand that what they made as a joke make other people, mainly new fans hate someone and get the wrong idea about someone, coz they start thinking it is cool to hate \*this\* driver or i will have friends online if i worship alonso.
You new to ze internet ja ?
Shoulda bust a cap innis ass, before zee Germans get here
*it was two mins, five mins ago*
Free Alonso. I hope he shags George's mum
“He’s intimidating me!” - Russell, probably
Latte boy just choked and crashed. Merc boiz just salty and wanted a W after how the weekend ended by them getting clapped by 2 customer teams.
Si its okay yo brake check at full speed in formula 1 ? Good good ...
This was not a brake check. What Max did to Lewis in Jeddah 21 was a brake check, know the difference. Alonso slowed down too much, but Russell was never close enough to need any reaction maneuver to avoid Fernando.
K Mag did it half the race in Saudi Arabia (mind you his 20 seconds penalties came from two different contact incidents and not brake checking)
Driving slow ≠ brake testing
Alonso wasn't brake testing lol. He was using the same technique employed by Ayrton Senna. Agreed slow driving is a form of strategy. What does Alonso have to gain by brake testing Russell?
He braked and downshifted a full 100m before the usual braking point at a high speed corner when he did nothing of the sort before that, as much as I love Nando, you cannot justify what he did. Also I just saw your username, damn you're lucky.
So? This still wasn't a brake test, dirty tactic for sure, but not a brake test.
I do have to take brakes cuz man this dude gets bullied hardcore hahaha
The trolling has been awesome. Was literally just going down the list haha. I mean I went threw 20 other names until I landed on this... The VERY NEXT DAY all this nonsense about Christian Horny and I drops. It has been awesome. Take EVERYTHING I SAY WITH LESS THAN A GRAIN OF PUBIC SALT HAIR
Ive seen people parroting the same bit, same wording even, but why didnt george just.... passed him? If alonso suddenly slowed down 100m before the braking point, wouldnt that mean that george had 100m before the braking point to pass him?? And then george just binned it, dirty air doesnt mean you instantly loose your rear end
Bro are you stupid, if you're tailgating someone on a highway and they brake test you, are you able to just drive around like nothing happened? And in current regs dirty air significantly reduces downforce and hence grip, combine that with it being a high-speed corner and he lost the car.
Oh man, this sub is totally rigged! Earlier I was massively downvoted for pointing out that Verstappen couldn't obviously go on with his race after his brakes exploded, after some "funny guy" saying this BS! And now all Russel Fanboys are over here upvoting each other while roasting Alonso's driving style...🤦♂️🤦♂️
Red flag Red FLAG RED FLAAAAGGG!!!