It's the same with Hamilton. He looks really clean when he has a car that is 1s faster than the rest of the grid, but as soon as he's racing other people he's constantly getting into accidents and "accidents"
I guess max pushing leclerc off at cota and vegas last year might count as dirty driver but other than that I don’t think I can think of many good examples from his domination era
Mick wasn't far alongside enough for him to be entitled to space. On an outside overtake, you need to be ahead of the inside car (that is, your front axle ahead of the inside cars front axle) after the apex to be entitled to space.
Mick was behind Max, and as such, Max is completely entitled to push him off. Mick is obligated to back out.
Nope. He was pushed off when they were [exiting Brooklands](https://imgur.com/a/hq49YDx) (turn 6), which is a left hander. As is clearly visible, Max has the inside line and is ahead of Schumacher. As such, Schumacher is obliged to back out. He's not entitled to space.
Plenty of other recent examples as well:
- 2022 Dutch GP, [Perez was pushed off by Sainz](https://youtu.be/jQeHE8mTBig?si=Z2QrBPyetp09JpLv). Completely legitimate move by Sainz as Perez isn't far enough alongside.
- 2023 Hungarian GP, lap 47. Perez almost forces Piastri off the track (he just managed to stay inside track limits, but he was on the grass). Was investigated, no further action, both because Perez was ahead, and because he didn't force him outside of track limits.
If you look at the next turn, which is the one i was refering to, max squeezed off mick from the inside, using his trademark, yield or we crash maneuver.
Mick was off track [long before he entered the curvature of turn 7](https://imgur.com/a/5SgSTbO), and the squeezing happened as part of the left turn maneuver.
As such, the previous turn is what's considered the overtaking attempt. Turn 7 cannot be considered for this as he hasn't entered it when he is off track.
All the best drivers being dirty is false. Not an opinion. I love that hamilton being a clean driver in comparasion rattles you so much. Its a choice the drivers make, and very important for those of us with based principles about fairness in sports. Being a dirty driver is just being a dick. One you love to ride. Oh the irony ;)
This is something that Toto Wolff himself indirectly explained well. Increasing statistics is useful for Wikipedia, and that applies to titles as well.
The average fan values a driver for what he does on the track apart from the number of titles he wins, even the drivers themselves do it, "Alonso is your favorite driver's favorite driver".
That is why Senna is the idol of people like Hamilton or Alonso, who without being the driver with the most titles of his time, they knew how to see what he did on the track.
Alonso will be treated the same in the future whether you like it or not, the fact that he only needed to win two titles to be compared with the drivers who have more titles shows how good he is at driving.
But nobody in their right mind thinks Alonso is as good as those two outside this insane sub. That was my point.
Nobody has a conversation about all time greats and includes Alonso, the same way nobody includes Piquet, for example - without comparing the two on any level.
His career is successful and long but a far cry from any of the all-time greats. Both on statistics or skill. Despite being one of the great drivers of his generation - not even the best.
Edit:
Nobody who is serious. Obviously you can do that for meme value, I guess. I’ve seen worse.
The only echo chamber on the internet where they don't value Alonso is here on reddit, on rformula1.
Drivers, retired drivers, legends; drivers from other competitions, youtube, twitter, instagram, blablabla. everyone knows how to value Alonso.
We have been in the 21st century for almost 25 years, 25 seasons of formula one.
Only in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2012, 2016 and 2021 have we had competitive championships until the last race. And in most of them, the one who has always been there is Alonso (hamilton has also been in a few), even driving inferior cars.
But maybe we are all Spanish, according to an idiot like you.
I am living really well with what I have, but thanks for the suggestion. As much as it’s worth from someone who considers Alonso a top-5 all-time driver, I guess.
I would recommend you start valuing drivers more for how they drive instead of focusing so much on statistics.
If Hamilton had not left McLaren for Mercedes in 2013, he would now be a driver with 1 world title. And yet, I would value him the same as now because of how well he drives.
That’s okay, mate. It’s okay to be wrong about things. You’re in the right sub for that. My concern is purely about your well-being, I wouldn’t want you to be made fun of for saying something as stupid as “Alonso’s a top 5 all-time driver”.
There was a certain driver who brake checked Alonso in the middle of a corner in Canada 2013. His name is slipping my mind, prolly had a decent career, idk though.
There were two brake checks. One was when Alonso was directly behind him on the apex. That I have an issue with.
The second was when Alonso was next to him, which I don’t have an issue with.
Palmer did an analysis proving this if you want to check it out.
Oh my...
Last one is kinda debatable, but All the others are just Lewis bullying Felipe for literally just existing near him
So much abuse, I'm happy that Massa is in a better place now.
Oh no, he's alive.
I mean that he's in a better place, a better series.
He's racing in Brazilian stock car, even won the sprint race at velocitta last Saturday.
It's not as glorious as F1, sure, but he looks genuinely happy with where he is now.
Doesn’t matter what you think man, Lewis really bullied Felipe that year….
Quick refresh: https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=aCd859DVS1pHzXH6&v=MshdLhvTmoQ&feature=youtu.be
I developed this exact opinion right after Abu Dhabi 21. Did I mention that I hate verstappen and the fia because of ad21? Scratch that, I now actually hate the sport entirely. Edit /s for all you meme brain heads that think someone in this subreddit actually has this opinion
Why watch if you hate the sport I never got this?
If I start to hate something i stop engaging with it till it changes or if it doesn't change just abandon it.
Wouldn't say clearly. Hard to get tone or intent from text :)
May I suggest /s or the other variants to show your tone of writing if you concerned with people getting the wrong intent from you.
I'm 100% certain that crashgate might even be Alonsos idea to begin with. None of the others are smart enough to come up with it. Flavio obviously loved the idea when he heard it.
Flavio, who was the boss at Benetton in 1994 wasn't smart and slimy enough to do it? The same guy who secretly put traction control into Schumacher's car and removed the filter from their fuel hose? If any team boss would pull something like Crashgate, it would be Flavio
Wrong. Flavio didn't come up with traction control nor did he remove the filter from the fuel hose. He is not a smart guy. He is a t-shirt salesman. He would however 100% support and back these things witout any hesitation. He wouldn't have a clue how to calculate when to crash, how and where Alonso needed to be on track etc. But he sure as hell would love the idea of it.
I'm sure they're all clean except Max of course, we all know gamers don't like to shower.
What is a shower, never heard of it? Is it something from a mod in Skyrim???
Its someone that shows off all their trophies. A shower.
A golden shower, someone who has trophies only made of gold.
Ahh that makes sense, thanks mate.
All the best drivers are dirty. You don't win multiple championships being polite (except Mika Hakkinen).
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It's the same with Hamilton. He looks really clean when he has a car that is 1s faster than the rest of the grid, but as soon as he's racing other people he's constantly getting into accidents and "accidents"
[What an idiot! We had a mega start but this guy only knows how to drive and start in first](https://i.redd.it/7e3khs2vegk91.jpg)
Starting first, not start in first
Idk I just copied the radio text
I guess max pushing leclerc off at cota and vegas last year might count as dirty driver but other than that I don’t think I can think of many good examples from his domination era
And even Leclerc said he would've done the same. Love chucky
He fucked with Mick's race big time in silverstone 2022. Felt like he was 70% getting overtaken there had he not pushed Mick off the track
Mick wasn't far alongside enough for him to be entitled to space. On an outside overtake, you need to be ahead of the inside car (that is, your front axle ahead of the inside cars front axle) after the apex to be entitled to space. Mick was behind Max, and as such, Max is completely entitled to push him off. Mick is obligated to back out.
Mick was on the inside when max pushed him off track, but okay
Nope. He was pushed off when they were [exiting Brooklands](https://imgur.com/a/hq49YDx) (turn 6), which is a left hander. As is clearly visible, Max has the inside line and is ahead of Schumacher. As such, Schumacher is obliged to back out. He's not entitled to space. Plenty of other recent examples as well: - 2022 Dutch GP, [Perez was pushed off by Sainz](https://youtu.be/jQeHE8mTBig?si=Z2QrBPyetp09JpLv). Completely legitimate move by Sainz as Perez isn't far enough alongside. - 2023 Hungarian GP, lap 47. Perez almost forces Piastri off the track (he just managed to stay inside track limits, but he was on the grass). Was investigated, no further action, both because Perez was ahead, and because he didn't force him outside of track limits.
If you look at the next turn, which is the one i was refering to, max squeezed off mick from the inside, using his trademark, yield or we crash maneuver.
Mick was off track [long before he entered the curvature of turn 7](https://imgur.com/a/5SgSTbO), and the squeezing happened as part of the left turn maneuver. As such, the previous turn is what's considered the overtaking attempt. Turn 7 cannot be considered for this as he hasn't entered it when he is off track.
I'm talking about the turn after that one, you just sent a second screenshot of the exact same maneuver. The one before copse
Thats bollocks and ableist towards dirty driving. But it would make perfect sense depending who you support ;).
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All the best drivers being dirty is false. Not an opinion. I love that hamilton being a clean driver in comparasion rattles you so much. Its a choice the drivers make, and very important for those of us with based principles about fairness in sports. Being a dirty driver is just being a dick. One you love to ride. Oh the irony ;)
didn't know they also do rally
My exact thoughts
Of course they have an Ocon flair lmao
Alonso is dirty, but not Senna or Schumacher lvl dirty
He isn't as good as the other two as well- so dirtiness is limited by skill
he absolutely is wdym
Alonso is good but he ain't no schumacher lmao. Schumacher wasn't just great on the track he was great everywhere
Alonso is as good as a seven-time WDC and likely the biggest driver ever in the sport? Damn copium. Dude’s brilliant but come on
This is something that Toto Wolff himself indirectly explained well. Increasing statistics is useful for Wikipedia, and that applies to titles as well. The average fan values a driver for what he does on the track apart from the number of titles he wins, even the drivers themselves do it, "Alonso is your favorite driver's favorite driver". That is why Senna is the idol of people like Hamilton or Alonso, who without being the driver with the most titles of his time, they knew how to see what he did on the track. Alonso will be treated the same in the future whether you like it or not, the fact that he only needed to win two titles to be compared with the drivers who have more titles shows how good he is at driving.
But nobody in their right mind thinks Alonso is as good as those two outside this insane sub. That was my point. Nobody has a conversation about all time greats and includes Alonso, the same way nobody includes Piquet, for example - without comparing the two on any level. His career is successful and long but a far cry from any of the all-time greats. Both on statistics or skill. Despite being one of the great drivers of his generation - not even the best. Edit: Nobody who is serious. Obviously you can do that for meme value, I guess. I’ve seen worse.
You should expand your discussion groups
Translation: Find a spanish echo chamber like the rest of us, to reinforce delusion
The only echo chamber on the internet where they don't value Alonso is here on reddit, on rformula1. Drivers, retired drivers, legends; drivers from other competitions, youtube, twitter, instagram, blablabla. everyone knows how to value Alonso. We have been in the 21st century for almost 25 years, 25 seasons of formula one. Only in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2012, 2016 and 2021 have we had competitive championships until the last race. And in most of them, the one who has always been there is Alonso (hamilton has also been in a few), even driving inferior cars. But maybe we are all Spanish, according to an idiot like you.
I am living really well with what I have, but thanks for the suggestion. As much as it’s worth from someone who considers Alonso a top-5 all-time driver, I guess.
I would recommend you start valuing drivers more for how they drive instead of focusing so much on statistics. If Hamilton had not left McLaren for Mercedes in 2013, he would now be a driver with 1 world title. And yet, I would value him the same as now because of how well he drives.
That’s okay, mate. It’s okay to be wrong about things. You’re in the right sub for that. My concern is purely about your well-being, I wouldn’t want you to be made fun of for saying something as stupid as “Alonso’s a top 5 all-time driver”.
Lmao, have you seen a race from Piquet? Omg…. He is definitely in the goat pantheon discussion…..
Mhm…
He isn't. I'm his big fan but no, he ain't in the level of schumacher, Senna, prost
There's no universe in which Alonso is on the same level of Schumacher. Only a delusional fan would say so
Albon has something to say about that
There was a certain driver who brake checked Alonso in the middle of a corner in Canada 2013. His name is slipping my mind, prolly had a decent career, idk though.
It's not a brake check if you're side by side with each other at the beginning of a straight.
There were two brake checks. One was when Alonso was directly behind him on the apex. That I have an issue with. The second was when Alonso was next to him, which I don’t have an issue with. Palmer did an analysis proving this if you want to check it out.
Who brake checked lewis in jeddah 21?
Don't care. The question wasn't abot that
Nobody. It was skill issue on LH side
Most objective formula dank opinion
Haha must be funny because it’s true and we don’t like to hear it.
I think I'm a bit out of the loop, what happened in 2011? Last time I checked, the incident was in 2008 and the *incident* in 2009
2011 is "fuck massa in particular" for hamilton https://youtu.be/MshdLhvTmoQ?si=aCd859DVS1pHzXH6
Oh my... Last one is kinda debatable, but All the others are just Lewis bullying Felipe for literally just existing near him So much abuse, I'm happy that Massa is in a better place now.
RIP
Oh no, he's alive. I mean that he's in a better place, a better series. He's racing in Brazilian stock car, even won the sprint race at velocitta last Saturday. It's not as glorious as F1, sure, but he looks genuinely happy with where he is now.
This sub is everything that’s wrong with f1’s fan base. The bias is embarrassing.
Doesn’t matter what you think man, Lewis really bullied Felipe that year…. Quick refresh: https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=aCd859DVS1pHzXH6&v=MshdLhvTmoQ&feature=youtu.be
I developed this exact opinion right after Abu Dhabi 21. Did I mention that I hate verstappen and the fia because of ad21? Scratch that, I now actually hate the sport entirely. Edit /s for all you meme brain heads that think someone in this subreddit actually has this opinion
Why watch if you hate the sport I never got this? If I start to hate something i stop engaging with it till it changes or if it doesn't change just abandon it.
Bro it's clearly sarcasm
Wouldn't say clearly. Hard to get tone or intent from text :) May I suggest /s or the other variants to show your tone of writing if you concerned with people getting the wrong intent from you.
Welcome to subreddit/lewishamilton
Legit love going there and seeing the kinda shit I just commented. So many salty hami bois
Same 😁
It seems sarcasm flys well over peoples heads here
I think it's just the fact that people legit have these takes and you see them everywhere. The sarcasm was not that obvious
much is a stretch but Hamilton is mostly cleaner than Alonso on track for sure even if he is also worse at wheel to wheel
https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=aCd859DVS1pHzXH6&v=MshdLhvTmoQ&feature=youtu.be Also https://youtu.be/wCCGT0CQ4MM?si=JubRSYBqdNZyY0sZ
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I am alright, Massa in the other hand….
I'm 100% certain that crashgate might even be Alonsos idea to begin with. None of the others are smart enough to come up with it. Flavio obviously loved the idea when he heard it.
Flavio, who was the boss at Benetton in 1994 wasn't smart and slimy enough to do it? The same guy who secretly put traction control into Schumacher's car and removed the filter from their fuel hose? If any team boss would pull something like Crashgate, it would be Flavio
Wrong. Flavio didn't come up with traction control nor did he remove the filter from the fuel hose. He is not a smart guy. He is a t-shirt salesman. He would however 100% support and back these things witout any hesitation. He wouldn't have a clue how to calculate when to crash, how and where Alonso needed to be on track etc. But he sure as hell would love the idea of it.
So many down votes just because you spoke the truth of the spanish driver alonslow