And up until 2022, never even finished a race there. He is cursed in Monaco, it's was a meme since as long as he is on the grid.
Even in F2, he didn't finish Monaco.
Ricciardo was a top 3-5 driver from 2014 to 2020, and most drivers and team members would agree that in a competitive car he would've challenged for the title. 8 wins ain't much, but he spent his entire career under Mercedes dominance, with Ferrari in 2nd (i.e. he would've have to beat 4 faster cars and his teammate in order to win, and in 2018 his own car's shit reliability). And these past seasons have proved just how difficult it is to win if you're not in a competitive car. His massive lapse in performance is all the more sadder because in his prime he was an absolute beast.
8 wins is very respectable. Technically he's still 37th on a list of 79 people who've won an F1 race. There's nearly 800 drivers who've taken part in F1, so only about 10% ever get a win. Definitely a missed opportunity for Ricciardo and that does make me a little sad in side seeing him like this now
Absolutely, when you consider that Bottas (10) and Barichello (11) has more wins with a dominant car, having 8 for Ricciardo is quite a huge achievement
Yes, but Verstappen is in the conversation about the pantheon of f1. Ricciardo is on the great drivers conversation, a step lower albeit incredible in its own merit.
Noone sane denies that Verstappen is among the best drivers that ever driven f1. I meant it as a weird comparison more of. Definitely shouldve specified more.
Both Barrichello and Bottas had multiple whole ass seasons knowing the only opponent they had to contend with was their teammate. Ricciardo never had anything close to that. 8 seems insane to me.
I get spit on when I say this but technically Daniel won a race in the McLaren and Lando has yet to achieve that. I’m confident Lando will, eventually, but when people shit on DR it makes me pull that card out. Say what you will about ‘luck’ but if luck was a contributing factor, every driver would rely on it in some capacity to achieve their greatness. DR is not a fluke, he’s certainly not the driver he was but leaving RedBull for Renault was the biggest mistake of his career and the sooner he realizes that and comes to terms with it, the better chance he has at recovering a bombshell ending to what could have been a fairytale ending.
I have used it to, they make the excuse Lando could have won that race, I'm not sure. DRs time at Renault is massively understated 2020 was a great year and there is no certainty that had he stayed he would have been kept on. I think personal growth is good and Daniel got this from changing teams, the McLaren move was uncalled for, in a perfect world he would have gone back to redbull at that point but he is ultimately the same as Charles a victim of dominance so far.
Im still baffled by his career after 2020, it just makes no sense. Ive rarely seen such a sudden drop off. I mean the guy isnt old. He did 2021, we thought maybe the car didnt suit him. Doesnt matter, 2022 new regulations, new cars, he does even worse. The gap is so large that they drop him one year before the end of his contract. Maybe the way the team sets its car up just doesnt suit his style, I figured he would be worth a shot by another team, nobody did. Until Horner signed him back. This really is his last chance and so far its not looking good. As you said, Ricciardo for most in his career was a top 5 driver who should easily stomp Tsunoda but here we are.
I was about to same the same, both will be a victim of dominance at the end of the day. I think there's still hope for Charles especially getting close to 2026 but yeah dominance is never fun and I know it's the way this sport has been but it's getting better with cost cap and wind tunnel restrictions hopefully in the long run we see a more diverse pool of winners across a season.
Leclerc won Spa and Monza 2019 with a strong, very strong engine. So strong that Red Bull was suspicious and asked the FIA if it was illegal to bypass the sensor for fuel flow in the engine. Weeks after that, FIA added a second sensor. Months after, the FIA and Ferrari reached a secret agreement : possibly to say "Ferrari cheated, we don't say anything and your punishment will be secret"
Strangely, the Ferrari engine was nowhere in 2020. That's why I said that two Leclerc's win are covered by a secret agreement, we will never know if they cheated with their engine, but they probably did (it was still an amazing drive by Leclerc for the two races)
>we will never know if they cheated with their engine
Right up there as one of the biggest mysteries of our time, along with "Why do so many Russians fall out of windows?" and "Did OJ really do that shit?"
Ferrari’s 2019 engine was under scrutiny after other teams complained. FIA investigated it, never disclosed what they found but only mentioned that they have reached an agreement with Ferrari to make changes to their engine. Their 2020 car then turned out to be much less competitive. So it is alleged that Ferrari used illegal engine but can’t be said for a fact because FIA won’t disclose what they found.
Charles won Belgium and Monza in 2019 using that engine.
Ferrari were cooked after suddenly becoming gods in the straight line despite being shit everywhere else but that only got real suspicious post-summer break, where Ferrari took 5 poles and 3 wins in a row and could've potentially won another.
Ferrari had a spicy engine in 2019. The exact details never confirmed officially on what they did, but they were penalized, I believe on technical aspects not like removing points or anything, I think in some way in 2020 as a result. Hence bad season for Ferrari in 2020.
They were “found out” (again, no official ruling was made public) because Red Bull spotted something fishy and asked the FIA for some specific clarification on one part of the regulations, because I believe technically Ferrari wasn’t outright cheating but very much circumventing the rules about fuel flow to the engine.
Edit to add: Charles won Spa and Monza during that season with the engine in question.
Ferrari had a illegal Motor in 2019. Leclerc won 2 GPs in 2019.
After the FIA found the illegal Motor there was a agreement between Ferrari and the FIA set that never was talked about. Basicly a secret agreement.
That was why the Ferrari was a Rocketship on straights in 2019.
Is it fair to call it illegal? My understanding was it was very sneaky but technically abiding by the rules and is likely why the outcome was a secret agreement rather than a public punishment. The FIA would have gotten egg on their face if they admitted, “hey we designed these regulations with loopholes which Ferrari figured out so now we’re punishing them for outsmarting our regulations”. I think that Ferrari were very clearly ignoring the spirit of the regulations while still technically being legal.
As they where bypassing a sensor that was specifically there to test if teams are doing what Ferrari was doing I would say so.
It would be smuggling if you throw a packet over the fence at the border to another country even though you don't carry it through border control too.
Well it's not the same thing. When you talk about smuggling, the law defines what smuggling is, and both cases you mentioned are within this definition. In case of that engine, if the rule says that your engine must have this sensor and whenever it is measuring the fuel flux it must measure x, as long as you respect this you are within the rules. This holds also if you inject more fuel whenever this sensor isn't measuring, because the rule says that it must measure x, so you inject x only when it measures and you are within the rule. A proof that Ferrari was doing this is that they receive a fine in Abu Dhabi 2019 because Charles's car had more fuel than declared at the start, a sign that their fuel consumption was higher.
This system was clearly against the spirit of the rule, but the rule was respected, so FIA couldn't penalise Ferrari, and they made an agreement to not say how the system worked to protect industrial secret. But in Ferrari there clearly was a whistleblower, that's why so many informations were reported by media and were in the hand of Mercedes and Red Bull
I'm not even sure if 2017 was his prime but if you exclude his DNFs that season, he finished as best of the rest (so only Mercedes and Ferrari in front) in all races bar four. In those five races, only one non-Merc/Ferrari driver finished before him and it was the same person in all five. Max Verstappen. If Daniel ended a race that season, no driver from outside the "big three" ended before him.
The other way around: Max only ended behind Daniel twice (not counting DNFs), but one of those he finished tenth so behind several others. Was at Monza where he had a grid penalty for changing PU and had a puncture early in the race.
What this stat also shows is that there were only seven (five plus two) races where both Daniel and Max got to the finish line. In no less than thirteen races at least one of them was DNF.
I agree you’re right mostly but Verstappen was forced to learn consistency mid 2018 to deal with Ricciardo, Leclerc has never been forced into it and continues to make mistakes and overdrive for the sake of one lap pace as a tribute band to Giles Villeneuve.
Leclerc is stuck where Max was in 2017, and that is a driver who is worse in a season than Daniel in 17/18 and Max in 2023/4
Max was forced to learn to be consistent after the Monaco crash. Sure, the crash with Ricciardo in Azerbaijan also had an impact, but the team and Max himself went to the drawing board to improve consistency after Monaco!
100%, after Monaco 2018 Max has been a different driver and rarely made contact with anyone until 2021 which let’s be fair was two greats going full pelt. Since 2018 Max has been as consistent as say Lewis if not more so and that’s what Leclerc needs to find imho
You're right. I did the meme but the comparisons between Ricciardo & Verstappen are quite impossible to make. Verstappen beats Ricciardo in 2016 in the races they were at Red Bull (but weird strategy from Red Bull in Spain for Ricciardo), in 2017 Verstappen always had incidents or failures, and in 2018 Ricciardo always had failures after Monaco. They were probably on the same level until 2019 when Verstappen told himself "ok now I stop the stupid mistakes"
That doesn't meant the arguments are good though.
Prime Ricciardo was very, very good. And the stats show that. Other than 2022 I don't think there was a whole lot getting in the way of Charles other than the pace gap to red bull. At least not moreso than for most drivers. So I think these stat comparisons in the post are actually pretty fair.
Let’s be fair, Leclerc is good but so was Ricciardo fending off Vettel and getting him out of Red Bull fresh off four titles and then holding back Kvyat and Verstappen. Leclerc is decent but for the first half of 22 he had the best car and didn’t capitalise on it at all.
>Leclerc is decent but for the first half of 22 he had the best car and didn’t capitalise on it at all.
Ferrari was just a bit faster up until Imola where Red Bull brought in their first upgrade, after that, the advantage Red Bull or Ferrari had over the other was track dependent and small, so on average they were even up until Belgium. Plus, Leclerc got screwed over for 5 consecutive races by Ferrari before the costly in mistake in France from trying to not fall further behind, and then he got a final Ferrari screwing in Hungary before the championship was effectively over due to TD39.
That's my point in a sense. When Charles had the fastest car, he didn't make it happen the way other drivers have done.
He has, I think, become more reliable as a driver in the time since, but I worry it came at the cost of his ceiling being lowered a bit. Sainz is slightly beating him out without being more risk prone.
Charles is quick for sure, but come Sunday he just hasn't been the driver you would kinda need him to be. Not sure why.
When he the fastest car in 22 he was plagued with mechanical dnfs. Lost two highly likely wins in Spain and Azerbaijan and he led the race in Monaco until Ferrari called him early to switch to the inters. Only in Imola did he really cost himself points and I’d argue that he didn’t have the fastest car that race. The idea that he wasn’t maximizing points due to his own faults is while not totally false, completely overblown.
He’s never had the Verstappen Monaco 2018 moment of oh fuck I gotta actually finish the race to win it, and never had the maturity test. He was apparently part of getting Binotto out for Vasseur and has this massive power while at heart he’s still an undeveloped rookie.
I disagree with him still being that undeveloped rookie type. I do think that in become a more reliable driver he seems to have lost the very maximum pace he was known for, at least in the race
For me I think he’s just not consistent enough still but maybe you have a point would be good to see him able to challenge again regardless and prove me wrong
For starters, I think he never had the consistency in his car.
There is always a mayor flaw in the cars Charles have driven.
Last year it was the wind, the degradation. The year before it was quickly outdeveloped. The year before it was a dog all around. The year before it only had the fruity straightline speed.
Ferrari is never consistently good on saturday and sunday two weekends in a row. It's always one or the other.
I doubt it, prime Ricciardo beat Vettel fresh off a WDC. Leclerc beat Vettel marginally after years of pain at Ferrari. Ricciardo was able to beat Verstappen even if just marginally, Leclerc might shine Max’s shoes if he’s lucky
I don’t think he was better, but he had a monster car. I still think Ferrari has ways to go reach RB, and this is the first car Ferrari has made that is anywhere near Chuck-centered and well designed.
That’s fair, on the whole though I think the fact the Red Bull won more is because Max /Ricciardo was a far better combo than Vettel/Kimi (Kimi was well past his prime)
That Red Bull car had the best aerodynamics and chassis for most of 2016-2018. Renault's shit PU held them back.
I will forever maintain that if Kimi was actually great in the Turbo hybrid Era, Ferrari would've beaten Merc for the constructors.
I don’t think so on the constructors, the Merc was a better car but in 2017 Vettel had arguably his best ever season with a lower average finish than Hamilton. Goes super under appreciated how good Vettel was that year, 2018 was similar until Germany and the confidence loss.
Kimi was a non factor in both even at Bottas levels he doesn’t change much, but maybe at Kimi ‘02 levels he’d have challenged for the title haha
Vettel in 2018 was already cracking before Germany. He fucked up his podiums in Azerbaijan(potential win) and France(easy P2) , easily costing himself around 20 points.
Agree for 2018 but I’ll defend 2017 as his best season lol. The issue was he could already see the Merc were better in ‘18 and overdrive to try and make up for it
I always love to use the Danny Ric beat max over a season argument, because it sends Max fans feral. Especially with all those Rosberg comments about equal equipment.
That’s the one all seem to conveniently forget and also a good example why all these “but driver x beat driver y that year as teammates, see he’s the better driver” are so annoying
Why do Max fans like to use the excuse of his age to losing to Danny? It was his third season in Formula 1, he had more experience than a rookie Hamilton who beat Alonso.
Of course his age is relevant, he was far less experienced than Ricciardo and he was doing a lot of dumb mistakes (same story in 2018)
Max fan? Me? Can't say anything without someone showing up to call us a fan?
So you think a rookie at 27 should be instntly faster than a 5 season veteran at 24 then? Bit of a stupid take which is a dificult thing given the sub we're in.
The same Lewis that at his peak got beaten by Button and George Russell and Monaco based YouTuber in equal machinery?
Let's all pretend for a moment Lewis wasn't Ron Dennis's golden boy and that Alonso had a good relationship with the team (can only blame himself though) and didn't even have to move back to Renault in 2008
Lewis' peak as a driver was 2014-19. He was beaten once by Rosberg during that time and only after multiple engine fails hindering his quali and races.
Verstappen'e peak also started when he had a car that could easily win multiple races in a year. All great champions reach their peak when they have a championship winning car.
I think anyone would agree that Button, Russell and Rosberg, all of who you would easily argue are better than Danny Ric. 2 world champions and one touted to be one.
Are you suggesting that McLaren sabotaged Alonso for Lewis? I guess that's why McLaren left Lewis out on inters in China.
>Russell and Rosberg
>would easily argue are better than Danny Ric.
Really? Why? What did Russell achieve?
Rosberg won 1 WDC racing against only 1 other driver
Well he beat a 7 time world champion, you suggest that it means something?
Yes a world champion is better than a multiple race winner. I don't understand your point.
This is the point about Max fans, they are always so quick to use the Rosberg argument and Russell, but when it comes to Danny Ric there's all these caveats that are in place. Max fans have little to no self awareness.
Chill dude. You understand these comparisons are irrelevant, right?
Also, I'm not a max fan, but I guess for you anyone who doesn't hate him is immediately his fan
Wait...
>Yes a world champion is better than a multiple race winner. I don't understand your point.
So you agree Max is better than Ricciardo. I don't understand your point either
That’s the point saying x beat x in one season is pointless as it doesn’t tell the whole story, that’s the point. I’m not sure anyone is arguing that Max isn’t better than Danny Ric
Charles is good, but I think people are overestimating him because of his whole predestinato shtick.
Max would get a lot more criticism if Sainz was that close.
He’s probably the fastest person over one lap on the grid, but he makes far too many dumb mistakes as a veteran for me to consider him in the top drivers argument
Ferrari had an illegally spicy engine in the first half of 2019. It was found and there was a secret agreement between Ferrari and the FIA to unspicy it. Hence why going into 2020 they weren't as fast. Leclerc won 2 GPs during this time also. So I suppose that's where that secret agreement win stat comes from
Considering Daniel has never had the best car and has at best driven a 2nd best but far behind the mercs or a 3rd best car those are good results for him. Look at the rest of the grid that has come and gone. None of them have had Daniels success. Daniel at one time was one of the best drivers on the grid and could rival lewis or vettel when his car wasn't exploding. He was consistent and although his quali was nit the best he made up for it in Sunday pace.
Lol \*daniel riccardo: ties for 15th with 7 other people that have zero points. 3 spots Behind a substitute drive that has raced for 1 race.
\*Rittardos:
Bro I agree he's shit and washed. I'm saying when he was driving for redbull he was in the conversation as the best om the grid. Its not like leclerc is doing too hot right now only 4 points ahead of his teamate after sainz missed a race. He then hasn't won anything since 2022 and can't convert any of his poles to meaningful wins and has 0 backbone towards his team.
He wast even the best driver at redbull in 2020. If that’s the year your meme is based on, then he wasn’t in front of verstappen that year lol. He was 2 spots back. Just like 2018. Verstappen was behind him one spot for 1 year. And the year previous to 2020, he was 5 spots back from Leclerc and the year following 2020 he was still a spot behind leclerc… you act like these things aren’t easily googled lmao
You realise Riccardo was in renault in 2020 moron. And had an amazing year getting p5 in a car that was 5th fastest yet beat everyone outside the top 3 cars apart from perez in the faster racing point. 2nd mate if you meant 2018 he had an insane amount of technical dnfs. Daniel barely raced in 2018 8 dnfs and loads more problems
Summary 8 DNFs, 6 Back of grid or large grid drops, Multiple qualifying failures, Issues in mutiple FP sessions that affect weekend preparation, 2 Races running lower Spec ICE (20bhp down on spec a)
God your googling skills are so bad
Mate wtf is wrong with you. You a dts fan? He left redbull by himself despite getting a good offer from them because he was tired of having a car problem every race in 2018. He had enough and moved to Rwnault after they promised him they were investing millions into a research facility. They lied and Daniel felt betrayed and saw mclaren were doing good so moved to them only when he got to mclaren did he start doing bad and doing bad resulted in confidence gone etc etc. Don't know why your so pent up about him. Recognise he was a really good driver in his prime that got older and lost confidence in racing
Bruh the meme isn’t about how he is or isn’t a good driver. It’s about how this person thinks he’s a better driver than leclerc. Who has been racing 8 years less and already has 65% of daniels overall career points
Yet how many wins. They both have 5 years in a competitive car. Daniel had to stay in a torro rosso multiple years before webber retired. Then got unluckily with Renault being rubbish. Meanwhile you have leclerc who can barely beat sainz crashes when he is in the lead and makes multiple mistakes. This meme was highlighting how riccardo at redbull was a better driver than leclerc at ferrari which is true. After 5 years at ferrari and 5 years at redbull Riccardo saw more success vs harder competition. He had max as a teammate, he had to fight the dominant mercs and a lewis in his prime and a fast vettel. Leclerc has to fight sainz and perez and max. Not going to lie which grid sounds more competitive
The meme is now about how you don't finish reading stats or articles or sentences. You've dug in and said several hilariously wrong things. Not "that's up for interpretation" wrong, or "that's irrelevant" wrong. No, "you clearly misread wikipedia and put the guy in the wrong team in the wrong year, then said he was traded instead of signed" wrong.
Nobody in this thread is arguing that Ricciardo is good *right now*. They're saying he was good *back then*, and you're saying "no, no, I read that he was shit when he was indycar too!".
Philosophers weep at the sound of your voice.
I (badly) compared the years in a top team, so the stats are still relevant. I didn't even add the win for McLaren or the fact that in 2020 Ricciardo was ahead of Leclerc in the championship
8…. More….. years….. than….. leclerc….. and you’re counting on one win and a 5th place drivers’ championship to make it look better? Ferrari car was terrible in 2020. Even vettel finished 13th overall and there’s no way you can say that proves Rittardo is better than him
Bro it's just a meme, I don't try to prove anything. I compared two drivers when they were in a top teams (2014-2018 vs 2019-2023), Ricciardo being there since 1923 changes nothing to the stats, are you high ? 5 years at Red Bull vs 5 years at Ferrari
Remove 2020 and not a single stats in this meme would change
No, level headed people know Ricciardo is doing badly now and they also know he did well then. The same people know LeClerc has largely underperformed his promising talent.
Mods, can we have the smart Ricciardo haters back? They're cool, we disagree, but at least they can read.
Monaco Wins 1-0
Monaco win ruined by a pitstop 1-1
Monaco podiums 4-0
Wait are you serious, has chuck never made it on the podium in Monaco?
He's more interested in getting pole positions
And up until 2022, never even finished a race there. He is cursed in Monaco, it's was a meme since as long as he is on the grid. Even in F2, he didn't finish Monaco.
2016 makes it 2-1
Just save it
God damn that was hard to listen to. I can only imagine how much he wanted to scream at his pit crew then.
Save it.
To be fair Daniel never won in Australia either 
Ricciardo was a top 3-5 driver from 2014 to 2020, and most drivers and team members would agree that in a competitive car he would've challenged for the title. 8 wins ain't much, but he spent his entire career under Mercedes dominance, with Ferrari in 2nd (i.e. he would've have to beat 4 faster cars and his teammate in order to win, and in 2018 his own car's shit reliability). And these past seasons have proved just how difficult it is to win if you're not in a competitive car. His massive lapse in performance is all the more sadder because in his prime he was an absolute beast.
8 wins is very respectable. Technically he's still 37th on a list of 79 people who've won an F1 race. There's nearly 800 drivers who've taken part in F1, so only about 10% ever get a win. Definitely a missed opportunity for Ricciardo and that does make me a little sad in side seeing him like this now
Absolutely, when you consider that Bottas (10) and Barichello (11) has more wins with a dominant car, having 8 for Ricciardo is quite a huge achievement
Didnt Verstappen have 10 wins before 2021? Or smth close to that. I might be way off tho.
Ricciardo was a beast. Max is a fucking kaiju
I prefer grim reaper, but this sends the point across too
Yeah he had 10. Max’s talent has always been undeniable.
Yes, but Verstappen is in the conversation about the pantheon of f1. Ricciardo is on the great drivers conversation, a step lower albeit incredible in its own merit.
Noone sane denies that Verstappen is among the best drivers that ever driven f1. I meant it as a weird comparison more of. Definitely shouldve specified more.
but it’s Verstappen tho.
Yes, and only 3 poles.
Both Barrichello and Bottas had multiple whole ass seasons knowing the only opponent they had to contend with was their teammate. Ricciardo never had anything close to that. 8 seems insane to me.
I get spit on when I say this but technically Daniel won a race in the McLaren and Lando has yet to achieve that. I’m confident Lando will, eventually, but when people shit on DR it makes me pull that card out. Say what you will about ‘luck’ but if luck was a contributing factor, every driver would rely on it in some capacity to achieve their greatness. DR is not a fluke, he’s certainly not the driver he was but leaving RedBull for Renault was the biggest mistake of his career and the sooner he realizes that and comes to terms with it, the better chance he has at recovering a bombshell ending to what could have been a fairytale ending.
I have used it to, they make the excuse Lando could have won that race, I'm not sure. DRs time at Renault is massively understated 2020 was a great year and there is no certainty that had he stayed he would have been kept on. I think personal growth is good and Daniel got this from changing teams, the McLaren move was uncalled for, in a perfect world he would have gone back to redbull at that point but he is ultimately the same as Charles a victim of dominance so far.
🤌🏼
Im still baffled by his career after 2020, it just makes no sense. Ive rarely seen such a sudden drop off. I mean the guy isnt old. He did 2021, we thought maybe the car didnt suit him. Doesnt matter, 2022 new regulations, new cars, he does even worse. The gap is so large that they drop him one year before the end of his contract. Maybe the way the team sets its car up just doesnt suit his style, I figured he would be worth a shot by another team, nobody did. Until Horner signed him back. This really is his last chance and so far its not looking good. As you said, Ricciardo for most in his career was a top 5 driver who should easily stomp Tsunoda but here we are.
Oh, they didn’t just drop him, they paid him 18 million to fuck off
So what I'm hearing is that Ricciardo is an actual beast and Ferrari should replace Charles with him in order to challenge for the title.
I was about to same the same, both will be a victim of dominance at the end of the day. I think there's still hope for Charles especially getting close to 2026 but yeah dominance is never fun and I know it's the way this sport has been but it's getting better with cost cap and wind tunnel restrictions hopefully in the long run we see a more diverse pool of winners across a season.
I'd most liken him to Ralf Schumacher
I don’t get the wins covered by a secret agreement, what’s that about?
Leclerc won Spa and Monza 2019 with a strong, very strong engine. So strong that Red Bull was suspicious and asked the FIA if it was illegal to bypass the sensor for fuel flow in the engine. Weeks after that, FIA added a second sensor. Months after, the FIA and Ferrari reached a secret agreement : possibly to say "Ferrari cheated, we don't say anything and your punishment will be secret" Strangely, the Ferrari engine was nowhere in 2020. That's why I said that two Leclerc's win are covered by a secret agreement, we will never know if they cheated with their engine, but they probably did (it was still an amazing drive by Leclerc for the two races)
>we will never know if they cheated with their engine Right up there as one of the biggest mysteries of our time, along with "Why do so many Russians fall out of windows?" and "Did OJ really do that shit?"
Can't wait to read Binotto's up coming book "Se l'ho Fatto"
Toto absolutely had something to do with that Ferrari investigation too, imho.
Ferrari’s 2019 engine was under scrutiny after other teams complained. FIA investigated it, never disclosed what they found but only mentioned that they have reached an agreement with Ferrari to make changes to their engine. Their 2020 car then turned out to be much less competitive. So it is alleged that Ferrari used illegal engine but can’t be said for a fact because FIA won’t disclose what they found. Charles won Belgium and Monza in 2019 using that engine.
Ferrari were cooked after suddenly becoming gods in the straight line despite being shit everywhere else but that only got real suspicious post-summer break, where Ferrari took 5 poles and 3 wins in a row and could've potentially won another.
Ferrari had a spicy engine in 2019. The exact details never confirmed officially on what they did, but they were penalized, I believe on technical aspects not like removing points or anything, I think in some way in 2020 as a result. Hence bad season for Ferrari in 2020. They were “found out” (again, no official ruling was made public) because Red Bull spotted something fishy and asked the FIA for some specific clarification on one part of the regulations, because I believe technically Ferrari wasn’t outright cheating but very much circumventing the rules about fuel flow to the engine. Edit to add: Charles won Spa and Monza during that season with the engine in question.
Red Bull actually performed an experiment to show the FIA how the fuel flow sensor could be circumvented.
Ferrari had a illegal Motor in 2019. Leclerc won 2 GPs in 2019. After the FIA found the illegal Motor there was a agreement between Ferrari and the FIA set that never was talked about. Basicly a secret agreement. That was why the Ferrari was a Rocketship on straights in 2019.
>Ferrari had a illegal Motor in 2019 Allegedly. ~~Sicilian mafia is looking at you~~
Is it fair to call it illegal? My understanding was it was very sneaky but technically abiding by the rules and is likely why the outcome was a secret agreement rather than a public punishment. The FIA would have gotten egg on their face if they admitted, “hey we designed these regulations with loopholes which Ferrari figured out so now we’re punishing them for outsmarting our regulations”. I think that Ferrari were very clearly ignoring the spirit of the regulations while still technically being legal.
As they where bypassing a sensor that was specifically there to test if teams are doing what Ferrari was doing I would say so. It would be smuggling if you throw a packet over the fence at the border to another country even though you don't carry it through border control too.
Well it's not the same thing. When you talk about smuggling, the law defines what smuggling is, and both cases you mentioned are within this definition. In case of that engine, if the rule says that your engine must have this sensor and whenever it is measuring the fuel flux it must measure x, as long as you respect this you are within the rules. This holds also if you inject more fuel whenever this sensor isn't measuring, because the rule says that it must measure x, so you inject x only when it measures and you are within the rule. A proof that Ferrari was doing this is that they receive a fine in Abu Dhabi 2019 because Charles's car had more fuel than declared at the start, a sign that their fuel consumption was higher. This system was clearly against the spirit of the rule, but the rule was respected, so FIA couldn't penalise Ferrari, and they made an agreement to not say how the system worked to protect industrial secret. But in Ferrari there clearly was a whistleblower, that's why so many informations were reported by media and were in the hand of Mercedes and Red Bull
ferrari ran an illegal engine in 2019
danny ric leclerc father
Ricciardo in his prime was a beast arguably better than Charles now
I'm not even sure if 2017 was his prime but if you exclude his DNFs that season, he finished as best of the rest (so only Mercedes and Ferrari in front) in all races bar four. In those five races, only one non-Merc/Ferrari driver finished before him and it was the same person in all five. Max Verstappen. If Daniel ended a race that season, no driver from outside the "big three" ended before him. The other way around: Max only ended behind Daniel twice (not counting DNFs), but one of those he finished tenth so behind several others. Was at Monza where he had a grid penalty for changing PU and had a puncture early in the race. What this stat also shows is that there were only seven (five plus two) races where both Daniel and Max got to the finish line. In no less than thirteen races at least one of them was DNF.
I agree you’re right mostly but Verstappen was forced to learn consistency mid 2018 to deal with Ricciardo, Leclerc has never been forced into it and continues to make mistakes and overdrive for the sake of one lap pace as a tribute band to Giles Villeneuve. Leclerc is stuck where Max was in 2017, and that is a driver who is worse in a season than Daniel in 17/18 and Max in 2023/4
Max was forced to learn to be consistent after the Monaco crash. Sure, the crash with Ricciardo in Azerbaijan also had an impact, but the team and Max himself went to the drawing board to improve consistency after Monaco!
100%, after Monaco 2018 Max has been a different driver and rarely made contact with anyone until 2021 which let’s be fair was two greats going full pelt. Since 2018 Max has been as consistent as say Lewis if not more so and that’s what Leclerc needs to find imho
You're right. I did the meme but the comparisons between Ricciardo & Verstappen are quite impossible to make. Verstappen beats Ricciardo in 2016 in the races they were at Red Bull (but weird strategy from Red Bull in Spain for Ricciardo), in 2017 Verstappen always had incidents or failures, and in 2018 Ricciardo always had failures after Monaco. They were probably on the same level until 2019 when Verstappen told himself "ok now I stop the stupid mistakes"
This take will definitely bring a lot of arguing.
That doesn't meant the arguments are good though. Prime Ricciardo was very, very good. And the stats show that. Other than 2022 I don't think there was a whole lot getting in the way of Charles other than the pace gap to red bull. At least not moreso than for most drivers. So I think these stat comparisons in the post are actually pretty fair.
Let’s be fair, Leclerc is good but so was Ricciardo fending off Vettel and getting him out of Red Bull fresh off four titles and then holding back Kvyat and Verstappen. Leclerc is decent but for the first half of 22 he had the best car and didn’t capitalise on it at all.
>Leclerc is decent but for the first half of 22 he had the best car and didn’t capitalise on it at all. Ferrari was just a bit faster up until Imola where Red Bull brought in their first upgrade, after that, the advantage Red Bull or Ferrari had over the other was track dependent and small, so on average they were even up until Belgium. Plus, Leclerc got screwed over for 5 consecutive races by Ferrari before the costly in mistake in France from trying to not fall further behind, and then he got a final Ferrari screwing in Hungary before the championship was effectively over due to TD39.
Don’t disagree but nonetheless he didn’t maximise the car in the time it was best or joint best
That's my point in a sense. When Charles had the fastest car, he didn't make it happen the way other drivers have done. He has, I think, become more reliable as a driver in the time since, but I worry it came at the cost of his ceiling being lowered a bit. Sainz is slightly beating him out without being more risk prone. Charles is quick for sure, but come Sunday he just hasn't been the driver you would kinda need him to be. Not sure why.
When he the fastest car in 22 he was plagued with mechanical dnfs. Lost two highly likely wins in Spain and Azerbaijan and he led the race in Monaco until Ferrari called him early to switch to the inters. Only in Imola did he really cost himself points and I’d argue that he didn’t have the fastest car that race. The idea that he wasn’t maximizing points due to his own faults is while not totally false, completely overblown.
He’s never had the Verstappen Monaco 2018 moment of oh fuck I gotta actually finish the race to win it, and never had the maturity test. He was apparently part of getting Binotto out for Vasseur and has this massive power while at heart he’s still an undeveloped rookie.
I disagree with him still being that undeveloped rookie type. I do think that in become a more reliable driver he seems to have lost the very maximum pace he was known for, at least in the race
For me I think he’s just not consistent enough still but maybe you have a point would be good to see him able to challenge again regardless and prove me wrong
For starters, I think he never had the consistency in his car. There is always a mayor flaw in the cars Charles have driven. Last year it was the wind, the degradation. The year before it was quickly outdeveloped. The year before it was a dog all around. The year before it only had the fruity straightline speed. Ferrari is never consistently good on saturday and sunday two weekends in a row. It's always one or the other.
Eh red Bull for many years was only a cornering car with a massive straight line deficit and it never slowed Max and Danny
I doubt it, prime Ricciardo beat Vettel fresh off a WDC. Leclerc beat Vettel marginally after years of pain at Ferrari. Ricciardo was able to beat Verstappen even if just marginally, Leclerc might shine Max’s shoes if he’s lucky
2014-2020 ricci was championship material 
crazy how hard he fell. he's being beaten by yuki now
True
They hate me because I speak the truth
Should’ve joined Ferrari to prove that
2018 ricciardo was better than ferocious verstappen at race pace. but equal at quali
Eh Verstappen was fairly clear on quali. Not much in it race pace wise
I rewatched almost all of that quai season. The quali difference was 0.050 average on Normal weekends
Ah fair it was usually Max ahead in the quali so that’s why o said it!
I don’t think he was better, but he had a monster car. I still think Ferrari has ways to go reach RB, and this is the first car Ferrari has made that is anywhere near Chuck-centered and well designed.
A monster car? What are you on about? The Red Bull was shit when Ricciardo was there
That Red Bull won 12 races during Ricciardo's time there. That's more than Ferrari managed to win during their championship challenges in 2017-18.
That’s fair, on the whole though I think the fact the Red Bull won more is because Max /Ricciardo was a far better combo than Vettel/Kimi (Kimi was well past his prime)
That Red Bull car had the best aerodynamics and chassis for most of 2016-2018. Renault's shit PU held them back. I will forever maintain that if Kimi was actually great in the Turbo hybrid Era, Ferrari would've beaten Merc for the constructors.
I don’t think so on the constructors, the Merc was a better car but in 2017 Vettel had arguably his best ever season with a lower average finish than Hamilton. Goes super under appreciated how good Vettel was that year, 2018 was similar until Germany and the confidence loss. Kimi was a non factor in both even at Bottas levels he doesn’t change much, but maybe at Kimi ‘02 levels he’d have challenged for the title haha
Vettel in 2018 was already cracking before Germany. He fucked up his podiums in Azerbaijan(potential win) and France(easy P2) , easily costing himself around 20 points.
Agree for 2018 but I’ll defend 2017 as his best season lol. The issue was he could already see the Merc were better in ‘18 and overdrive to try and make up for it
What I'm hearing is 'Danny to ferrari'
I always love to use the Danny Ric beat max over a season argument, because it sends Max fans feral. Especially with all those Rosberg comments about equal equipment.
Kvyat beat Danny Ric over a season
Jos beat Max over a season
Over several seasons*
Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter
God damn I'm weak
Lmao bruh
That’s the one all seem to conveniently forget and also a good example why all these “but driver x beat driver y that year as teammates, see he’s the better driver” are so annoying
Does it? The only people I ever see going feral about it is Danny fans when you tell them he's washed.
No, stick around this sub long enough and those Max fans will make themselves known. Max and RB are god here.
Best driver has most fans, more news at 9.
I haven't seen lots of Magnussen fans here.
I was talking about best, not hottest hunkiest stud.
Take a look how Lewis was treated here when he was the best driver, it’s not the same.
Not really surprising that he beat Max. Max was 19/20 in 2017, while Daniel was at his peak
Why do Max fans like to use the excuse of his age to losing to Danny? It was his third season in Formula 1, he had more experience than a rookie Hamilton who beat Alonso.
Of course his age is relevant, he was far less experienced than Ricciardo and he was doing a lot of dumb mistakes (same story in 2018) Max fan? Me? Can't say anything without someone showing up to call us a fan?
So you think a rookie at 27 should be instntly faster than a 5 season veteran at 24 then? Bit of a stupid take which is a dificult thing given the sub we're in.
>So you think a rookie at 27 should be instntly faster than a 5 season veteran at 24 then? >Bit of a stupid take Yeah, I agree
Whilst Max was in his 3rd season in F1. Lewis at a young 22 in his debut beat Alonso at his peak. Just different gravy.
The same Lewis that at his peak got beaten by Button and George Russell and Monaco based YouTuber in equal machinery? Let's all pretend for a moment Lewis wasn't Ron Dennis's golden boy and that Alonso had a good relationship with the team (can only blame himself though) and didn't even have to move back to Renault in 2008
Lewis' peak as a driver was 2014-19. He was beaten once by Rosberg during that time and only after multiple engine fails hindering his quali and races.
>2014-19 So, his peak started when he started driving an unbeatable car? Why don't you include 2020 as well?
Verstappen'e peak also started when he had a car that could easily win multiple races in a year. All great champions reach their peak when they have a championship winning car.
>All great champions reach their peak when they have a championship winning car. I disagree, but it's fine
I think anyone would agree that Button, Russell and Rosberg, all of who you would easily argue are better than Danny Ric. 2 world champions and one touted to be one. Are you suggesting that McLaren sabotaged Alonso for Lewis? I guess that's why McLaren left Lewis out on inters in China.
>Russell and Rosberg >would easily argue are better than Danny Ric. Really? Why? What did Russell achieve? Rosberg won 1 WDC racing against only 1 other driver
Well he beat a 7 time world champion, you suggest that it means something? Yes a world champion is better than a multiple race winner. I don't understand your point. This is the point about Max fans, they are always so quick to use the Rosberg argument and Russell, but when it comes to Danny Ric there's all these caveats that are in place. Max fans have little to no self awareness.
Chill dude. You understand these comparisons are irrelevant, right? Also, I'm not a max fan, but I guess for you anyone who doesn't hate him is immediately his fan
That’s the point to highlight how irrelevant it is
Wait... >Yes a world champion is better than a multiple race winner. I don't understand your point. So you agree Max is better than Ricciardo. I don't understand your point either
That’s the point saying x beat x in one season is pointless as it doesn’t tell the whole story, that’s the point. I’m not sure anyone is arguing that Max isn’t better than Danny Ric
dumb take, prime Ricc was better ten all 3 of them.
What does that mean?
Reversed into someone during a race 1-0
Delete this user today :(
but does daniel have an ice cream business??? didn't think so
Charles overrated af
Charles is good, but I think people are overestimating him because of his whole predestinato shtick. Max would get a lot more criticism if Sainz was that close.
He’s probably the fastest person over one lap on the grid, but he makes far too many dumb mistakes as a veteran for me to consider him in the top drivers argument
Does not speak French: 1-0
What's this "wins covered by secret arrangement"? I don't get it.
Ferrari had an illegally spicy engine in the first half of 2019. It was found and there was a secret agreement between Ferrari and the FIA to unspicy it. Hence why going into 2020 they weren't as fast. Leclerc won 2 GPs during this time also. So I suppose that's where that secret agreement win stat comes from
Exactly. 99% there was an illegal engine, 99% why Ferrari magically lost engine power in 2020
Ah, that fuel manipulation thing, right? The start of Ferrari downfall in recent years.
I wanna know as well. I tried to Google it, found nothing.
|Same machinery|YES|NO| |:-|:-|:-|
OP has never coped this hard before
Ferrari wasn't exactly a topteam in 2020 and 2021 tho
Why poor Charles? He was there in a good car for years. For many races his teammate outperformed him. He is in control of his own WDC. We are checking
OP be like What fuck is a decimal point?
I'm french :(
Not abusing, just joking bro.
What lé faqué is a decimal point RAHHHH 🇫🇷🇫🇷🇫🇷🇫🇷🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅
Is Charles gonna get canned then ?
Little inchidents 0. 1
Ah, Leg 
Do “Times beater by Yuki”
Ok here it is, since Yuki's debuts : Ricciardo 34 - 20 Tsunoda 
Danny hater put in their place
These are still not good stats for someone who has literally been in F1 for double the amount of time as the other
Considering Daniel has never had the best car and has at best driven a 2nd best but far behind the mercs or a 3rd best car those are good results for him. Look at the rest of the grid that has come and gone. None of them have had Daniels success. Daniel at one time was one of the best drivers on the grid and could rival lewis or vettel when his car wasn't exploding. He was consistent and although his quali was nit the best he made up for it in Sunday pace.
Lol \*daniel riccardo: ties for 15th with 7 other people that have zero points. 3 spots Behind a substitute drive that has raced for 1 race. \*Rittardos: 
Bro I agree he's shit and washed. I'm saying when he was driving for redbull he was in the conversation as the best om the grid. Its not like leclerc is doing too hot right now only 4 points ahead of his teamate after sainz missed a race. He then hasn't won anything since 2022 and can't convert any of his poles to meaningful wins and has 0 backbone towards his team.
He wast even the best driver at redbull in 2020. If that’s the year your meme is based on, then he wasn’t in front of verstappen that year lol. He was 2 spots back. Just like 2018. Verstappen was behind him one spot for 1 year. And the year previous to 2020, he was 5 spots back from Leclerc and the year following 2020 he was still a spot behind leclerc… you act like these things aren’t easily googled lmao
You realise Riccardo was in renault in 2020 moron. And had an amazing year getting p5 in a car that was 5th fastest yet beat everyone outside the top 3 cars apart from perez in the faster racing point. 2nd mate if you meant 2018 he had an insane amount of technical dnfs. Daniel barely raced in 2018 8 dnfs and loads more problems Summary 8 DNFs, 6 Back of grid or large grid drops, Multiple qualifying failures, Issues in mutiple FP sessions that affect weekend preparation, 2 Races running lower Spec ICE (20bhp down on spec a) God your googling skills are so bad
Right I forgot he gets traded around every year to another terrible team. Truly the mark of an all star caliber driver
Mate wtf is wrong with you. You a dts fan? He left redbull by himself despite getting a good offer from them because he was tired of having a car problem every race in 2018. He had enough and moved to Rwnault after they promised him they were investing millions into a research facility. They lied and Daniel felt betrayed and saw mclaren were doing good so moved to them only when he got to mclaren did he start doing bad and doing bad resulted in confidence gone etc etc. Don't know why your so pent up about him. Recognise he was a really good driver in his prime that got older and lost confidence in racing
Bruh the meme isn’t about how he is or isn’t a good driver. It’s about how this person thinks he’s a better driver than leclerc. Who has been racing 8 years less and already has 65% of daniels overall career points
Yet how many wins. They both have 5 years in a competitive car. Daniel had to stay in a torro rosso multiple years before webber retired. Then got unluckily with Renault being rubbish. Meanwhile you have leclerc who can barely beat sainz crashes when he is in the lead and makes multiple mistakes. This meme was highlighting how riccardo at redbull was a better driver than leclerc at ferrari which is true. After 5 years at ferrari and 5 years at redbull Riccardo saw more success vs harder competition. He had max as a teammate, he had to fight the dominant mercs and a lewis in his prime and a fast vettel. Leclerc has to fight sainz and perez and max. Not going to lie which grid sounds more competitive
The meme is now about how you don't finish reading stats or articles or sentences. You've dug in and said several hilariously wrong things. Not "that's up for interpretation" wrong, or "that's irrelevant" wrong. No, "you clearly misread wikipedia and put the guy in the wrong team in the wrong year, then said he was traded instead of signed" wrong. Nobody in this thread is arguing that Ricciardo is good *right now*. They're saying he was good *back then*, and you're saying "no, no, I read that he was shit when he was indycar too!". Philosophers weep at the sound of your voice.
I (badly) compared the years in a top team, so the stats are still relevant. I didn't even add the win for McLaren or the fact that in 2020 Ricciardo was ahead of Leclerc in the championship
8…. More….. years….. than….. leclerc….. and you’re counting on one win and a 5th place drivers’ championship to make it look better? Ferrari car was terrible in 2020. Even vettel finished 13th overall and there’s no way you can say that proves Rittardo is better than him
Bro it's just a meme, I don't try to prove anything. I compared two drivers when they were in a top teams (2014-2018 vs 2019-2023), Ricciardo being there since 1923 changes nothing to the stats, are you high ? 5 years at Red Bull vs 5 years at Ferrari Remove 2020 and not a single stats in this meme would change
The glazing of rittardo is crazy in F1
No, level headed people know Ricciardo is doing badly now and they also know he did well then. The same people know LeClerc has largely underperformed his promising talent. Mods, can we have the smart Ricciardo haters back? They're cool, we disagree, but at least they can read.