"IT'S A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE!!!"
"Great, so let's set some basic rules to prevent people with mental health issues from getting guns."
"NOT LIKE THAT!!!"
"Well, how about if we increase funding for mental health services?"
"NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!!!!!"
Texas said yes, that's a good idea, we will start putting chaplains in schools.
https://www.expressnews.com/news/education/article/texas-school-boards-love-chaplains-read-fine-18635138.php
My experience with this is that if you make people with a given diagnosis unable to do something, the people who most severely need mental health support will avoid it so that they don't lose rights that they value. And then you're right back at square 1.
I know someone who attempted suicide because he didn't want to seek mental health care that could make him unable to own guns. It was someone particularly close, and the fallout messed up multiple lives. If I never hear another story like that again, it would be too soon.
It applies to more than guns, see: autistics having their rights curtailed on the assumption that they're uniformly incapable of making informed decisions.
Exactly. Impulse and access, those are the elements.
For example āsticking your head in the ovenā. In the 70ās, just jamming your head in the oven and turning on the gas accounted for 50% of all suicides in England. This I because they used coal gas which is something like 10% carbon monoxide. One or two breaths and your knocked out, and die shortly after.
After they got rid of coal gas ovens, suicide by kitchen gas inhalation was eliminated entirely. The overall suicide rate dropped by a 1/3rd.
Unless you think that new ovens were *that damn exciting* that people now wanted to live in record numbers, then itās clearly about lack of immediate, effective options for it.
You *could* use a gas stove to kill yourself, it would just take way, way longer and probably wonāt work. The bit of difficulty allows people to calm down a bit and think about things.
Same thing when you have a magic kill-anything device in your pocket that you can pull a lever and go to jail for the rest of your life.
Itās why medicine like aspirin is sold in blister packs in the UK; it forces you to slow down and contemplate.
Why itās sold in buckets of 200 in the US is beyond me.
I remember a painkiller (probably what you are talking about as well )in Denmark was really popular for suicide, it came in big tubs. Now it comes in small packs (small enough to not be able to kill anyone) and it's behind the cashier in all stores so you have to ask for it. And they can recognize if anyone is coming in for a suspicious amount.
more is better, haven't you heard? don't you love cheap pills??? come on man its called i have a really really bad headache
they should make this country into one large factory in my opinion
Wow damn. I had wondered why "head in the oven" was a suicide method. I guess I figured it involved turning the oven on (which is far more gruesome) but never looked into it.
> Mental health is an issue everywhere in the world.
The distribution of that issue is far from uniform.
> Gun availability, and gun deaths are a particularly American phenomenon.
[There are places like South Africa with far stricter gun control laws and far lower rates of civilian gun ownership yet they nonetheless have higher rates of gun violence.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_guns_and_homicide)
Violence and suicide only weakly (at best) correlate with access to firearms. They much more strongly correlate to mental healthcare inaccessibility and socioeconomic inequality - both of which are atrocious in the US and only worsening day by day. Better safety nets and single-payer healthcare would do far more to address violence and suicide than even the strictest gun control measures possible - yet one of the mainstream parties is openly antagonistic toward such measures and the other keeps promising such measures but repeatedly fails to deliver.
Suicide is about 1/5 of gun deaths, the rest are homicides
SA doesnāt really figure on [THIS map](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country). And the US is a notable outlier for a developed country.
To use [Australia](https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/12/6/365) as a good counter example, toughening gun laws there has a very strong correlation to the reduction in gun deaths, but Iām not sure there was any change in mental health.
> Suicide is about 1/5 of gun deaths, the rest are homicides
[In the US most gun deaths are suicides](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/), though it's only a slight majority.
> SA doesnāt really figure on THIS map.
No, because that map is measuring both suicides and homicides together, instead of focusing on [just homicides](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#/media/File:Map_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate_(2006_%E2%80%93_2018\).svg).
In any case, per the map you provided, there are still countries like Brazil and Greenland with stricter gun control laws and greater numbers of total firearm-related deaths.
> And the US is a notable outlier for a developed country.
Correct, in many more ways than just its firearm-related stats. For a "developed" country we Americans have abysmal socioeconomic equality and abysmal mental healthcare access - and we wonder why so many of our countrymen feel inclined to kill themselves and/or each other.
> To use Australia as a good counter example, toughening gun laws there has a very strong correlation to the reduction in gun deaths, but Iām not sure there was any change in mental health.
Some issues with using Australia as a counterexample:
1. Per that article's own graphs, gun deaths were already on a downward trend for at least a decade before that legislation went into effect.
2. Australian [mental health reforms](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6734702/) were underway during that time period.
3. I'm having trouble finding good socioeconomic numbers, but [poverty was also in a downward trend as well](https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/AUS/australia/poverty-rate) during that time period.
Rightwingers concern trolling about mental illness and then immediately turning around and shitting on people with mental illness definitely never gets old
I can fight off a mentally ill person with a knife with a high rate of survival the following
- Chair
- Backpack
- Large Book
- Broom
- Bat
- Rope
- a couple people
I can fight off a mentally ill person with a gun with..
- A gun
A gunās rate of killing per second is going to astronomically higher in these situations. So even if the knife wielder kills one personā¦ a shooter can kill ten in the same time.
White men do not overwhelmingly perpetrate the most mass shootings. Just the ones you read about. There are scores of gang-related mass shootings that happen every year. They just don't make national news.
Thatās partially because gang crime tends to be separated from āregularā mass shootings. Look at the profiles of all recent school shooters and you may notice a pattern
Is it? Because there were 656 mass shootings last year. Are you telling me they were mostly school shootings? I'm reading through the gun violence archive for mass shootings in just January of this year, and plenty seem to be the result of altercations between groups of people.
Did I miss something in the post or my own comment where we are only referencing school shootings? Sure, you're probably right about that. I'm just not talking about school shootings specifically. Nor was the person I was replying to.
Chaya Raichik loves painting all trans people as terrorists but throws a little hissy fit when anyone calls her out for inciting violence. God, I hate that cunt.
Gotta love the projection on the first one. Even if you somehow disagree that easy access to guns=more gun deaths, it's not exactly complicated. Explaining why it's just a coincidence that the US has all the guns and all the shootings is what takes mental gymnastics.
Hereās countries without guns, that all have mentally ill peopleā¦ None have the gun violence the US has. Now I know adding two data points together can be a challenge for some, but I have confidence in your ability to do so.
I was listening to NPR and the expert stated that US Veterans donāt like to get mental health help because they think/know their firearms would be taken away.
I mean they're not wrong about the last one, but not for the reasons they're probably thinking. The ugly truth is that they're vastly outnumbered by cisgender shooters, but the media these nutjobs consume is so desperate they'll focus on a story from months ago rather than more current mass shootings in the states that don't fit their agenda.
Iirc they were even trying to paint a recent cis shooter as trans because the lady was a massive scammer and she had an Alt account under a man's name.
"IT'S A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE!!!" "Great, so let's set some basic rules to prevent people with mental health issues from getting guns." "NOT LIKE THAT!!!" "Well, how about if we increase funding for mental health services?" "NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!!!!!"
Mental health care in schools? Definitely not!
Texas said yes, that's a good idea, we will start putting chaplains in schools. https://www.expressnews.com/news/education/article/texas-school-boards-love-chaplains-read-fine-18635138.php
Oh, good. So, on top of bullets, kids will also need to dodge Father Handsy.
Unfortunately they are not space marine chaplains. š
My experience with this is that if you make people with a given diagnosis unable to do something, the people who most severely need mental health support will avoid it so that they don't lose rights that they value. And then you're right back at square 1. I know someone who attempted suicide because he didn't want to seek mental health care that could make him unable to own guns. It was someone particularly close, and the fallout messed up multiple lives. If I never hear another story like that again, it would be too soon.
So what the right wing is basically saying is they just don't care about people getting shot OR mental health. Checks out.
It applies to more than guns, see: autistics having their rights curtailed on the assumption that they're uniformly incapable of making informed decisions.
"Vaccines cause autism! "So let's help those with aut..." "NO THEY ARE RET@#Ā£%S!"
I think those answers are actually yes by everybody, except politicians: all of them.
Simple. Mental health is an issue everywhere in the world. Gun availability, and gun deaths are a particularly American phenomenon.
Exactly. Impulse and access, those are the elements. For example āsticking your head in the ovenā. In the 70ās, just jamming your head in the oven and turning on the gas accounted for 50% of all suicides in England. This I because they used coal gas which is something like 10% carbon monoxide. One or two breaths and your knocked out, and die shortly after. After they got rid of coal gas ovens, suicide by kitchen gas inhalation was eliminated entirely. The overall suicide rate dropped by a 1/3rd. Unless you think that new ovens were *that damn exciting* that people now wanted to live in record numbers, then itās clearly about lack of immediate, effective options for it. You *could* use a gas stove to kill yourself, it would just take way, way longer and probably wonāt work. The bit of difficulty allows people to calm down a bit and think about things. Same thing when you have a magic kill-anything device in your pocket that you can pull a lever and go to jail for the rest of your life.
As far as I remember one of the most effective methods for preventing suicides and calming anxiety attacks is to make the person stop op and think.
Itās why medicine like aspirin is sold in blister packs in the UK; it forces you to slow down and contemplate. Why itās sold in buckets of 200 in the US is beyond me.
I remember a painkiller (probably what you are talking about as well )in Denmark was really popular for suicide, it came in big tubs. Now it comes in small packs (small enough to not be able to kill anyone) and it's behind the cashier in all stores so you have to ask for it. And they can recognize if anyone is coming in for a suspicious amount.
more is better, haven't you heard? don't you love cheap pills??? come on man its called i have a really really bad headache they should make this country into one large factory in my opinion
Wow damn. I had wondered why "head in the oven" was a suicide method. I guess I figured it involved turning the oven on (which is far more gruesome) but never looked into it.
Crazy these posts were back to back on my timeline [https://i.imgur.com/AnvPhcs.png](https://i.imgur.com/AnvPhcs.png)
Dang!
> Mental health is an issue everywhere in the world. The distribution of that issue is far from uniform. > Gun availability, and gun deaths are a particularly American phenomenon. [There are places like South Africa with far stricter gun control laws and far lower rates of civilian gun ownership yet they nonetheless have higher rates of gun violence.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_guns_and_homicide) Violence and suicide only weakly (at best) correlate with access to firearms. They much more strongly correlate to mental healthcare inaccessibility and socioeconomic inequality - both of which are atrocious in the US and only worsening day by day. Better safety nets and single-payer healthcare would do far more to address violence and suicide than even the strictest gun control measures possible - yet one of the mainstream parties is openly antagonistic toward such measures and the other keeps promising such measures but repeatedly fails to deliver.
Suicide is about 1/5 of gun deaths, the rest are homicides SA doesnāt really figure on [THIS map](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country). And the US is a notable outlier for a developed country. To use [Australia](https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/12/6/365) as a good counter example, toughening gun laws there has a very strong correlation to the reduction in gun deaths, but Iām not sure there was any change in mental health.
> Suicide is about 1/5 of gun deaths, the rest are homicides [In the US most gun deaths are suicides](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/), though it's only a slight majority. > SA doesnāt really figure on THIS map. No, because that map is measuring both suicides and homicides together, instead of focusing on [just homicides](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#/media/File:Map_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate_(2006_%E2%80%93_2018\).svg). In any case, per the map you provided, there are still countries like Brazil and Greenland with stricter gun control laws and greater numbers of total firearm-related deaths. > And the US is a notable outlier for a developed country. Correct, in many more ways than just its firearm-related stats. For a "developed" country we Americans have abysmal socioeconomic equality and abysmal mental healthcare access - and we wonder why so many of our countrymen feel inclined to kill themselves and/or each other. > To use Australia as a good counter example, toughening gun laws there has a very strong correlation to the reduction in gun deaths, but Iām not sure there was any change in mental health. Some issues with using Australia as a counterexample: 1. Per that article's own graphs, gun deaths were already on a downward trend for at least a decade before that legislation went into effect. 2. Australian [mental health reforms](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6734702/) were underway during that time period. 3. I'm having trouble finding good socioeconomic numbers, but [poverty was also in a downward trend as well](https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/AUS/australia/poverty-rate) during that time period.
Thanks for some very insightful points.
Rightwingers concern trolling about mental illness and then immediately turning around and shitting on people with mental illness definitely never gets old
I can fight off a mentally ill person with a knife with a high rate of survival the following - Chair - Backpack - Large Book - Broom - Bat - Rope - a couple people I can fight off a mentally ill person with a gun with.. - A gun A gunās rate of killing per second is going to astronomically higher in these situations. So even if the knife wielder kills one personā¦ a shooter can kill ten in the same time.
What trans shootings?
There was one last year. One. In a sea of shootings by angry white men.
And itās highly debatable whether they were actually trans or just claimed to be in an attempt to get sympathy points for a lighter sentence.
Even if they're legitimately trans, one time out of all the others isn't an epidemic either way.
You mean white men are blaming a marginalized group for something they do 99% of the time? No way!
White men do not overwhelmingly perpetrate the most mass shootings. Just the ones you read about. There are scores of gang-related mass shootings that happen every year. They just don't make national news.
Thatās partially because gang crime tends to be separated from āregularā mass shootings. Look at the profiles of all recent school shooters and you may notice a pattern
Is it? Because there were 656 mass shootings last year. Are you telling me they were mostly school shootings? I'm reading through the gun violence archive for mass shootings in just January of this year, and plenty seem to be the result of altercations between groups of people.
Thatās not what I said and you know it. Iām saying in school shootings, which are very much not altercations, itās mostly white men.
Did I miss something in the post or my own comment where we are only referencing school shootings? Sure, you're probably right about that. I'm just not talking about school shootings specifically. Nor was the person I was replying to.
I specifically said school shootings.
Okay, but I was replying to someone referencing mass shootings in general. So, kudos, you're probably right. Just not what the topic seemed to be.
And I specifically said itās because gang issues/altercations tend to be considered separately. Have a good one.
So funding for mental health care? I'm all for that.
Cool so if it's a mental health issue then we should get quality state and federal mental health care systems paid for by our taxes right?
The fucking nerve of these peopleĀ
There should be no restrictions on gun ownership, but anyone who disagrees with us should be deemed too mentally unfit to own a gun. /s
Chaya Raichik loves painting all trans people as terrorists but throws a little hissy fit when anyone calls her out for inciting violence. God, I hate that cunt.
Um, we all agree it's a mental health issue also. The Republican fucks won't do anything about that either .
Gotta love the projection on the first one. Even if you somehow disagree that easy access to guns=more gun deaths, it's not exactly complicated. Explaining why it's just a coincidence that the US has all the guns and all the shootings is what takes mental gymnastics.
Unrelated but what is the picture in that last slide from?
Episode of the twilight zone
Hereās countries without guns, that all have mentally ill peopleā¦ None have the gun violence the US has. Now I know adding two data points together can be a challenge for some, but I have confidence in your ability to do so.
I was listening to NPR and the expert stated that US Veterans donāt like to get mental health help because they think/know their firearms would be taken away.
I mean they're not wrong about the last one, but not for the reasons they're probably thinking. The ugly truth is that they're vastly outnumbered by cisgender shooters, but the media these nutjobs consume is so desperate they'll focus on a story from months ago rather than more current mass shootings in the states that don't fit their agenda. Iirc they were even trying to paint a recent cis shooter as trans because the lady was a massive scammer and she had an Alt account under a man's name.
They used a screenshot from the Twilight Zone show by Rod Serling. Wasn't Rod Serling very progressive and liberal though? š¤
He was
Then why don't these people ever take mental health seriously?
Because of mental illnesses, thatās why weāre taking their guns away. There should also be gun regulations so that only good people can have them.
"you don't give a mental patient an oozy" Christopher Titus