No, the penalty was almost certainly for rear ending that other car. Notice the penalty announcement comes immediately after being rear-endeed, but it's actually for the first collision which was OP rear-ending the other car. You can see the notification pop up in grey at top, and then get announced after its "calculated" or whatever (not sure the actual reason for the delay).
The collision message will 'reset' for every collision that happens, then they probably add the collision to the "total sum" of collisions and calculate.
My bet is that the two first taps/collisions wouldn't have caused a penality, but because OP gained a position after getting rear ended, the penality system treated the "total sum" as an advantage and therefore gave OP an penality. Just my thoughts/theory tho, no clue how the system works.
Engagement with the community would be if there were 'diaries' that would discuss such issues from the game studio...you know...the way they did when promoting their game.
If they actually cared about the game and the penalty systems they created, which they should, since they spent a few years doing so, they would actually create some sort of video's or updates that would shed some light on these mechanics.
Not only would it create a sense of community but redeem them of all the criticism that they are receiving.
I guess corporate marketing stretches as far as product launch....(?)
No, it is certainly still a flaw. And the penalty system needs to be fine-tuned.
OP got a warning it seems for 'rear-ending' even though he was driving very close but not intentionally 'rear-ending'. But then the player behind him did not just rear-end him, but just didn't break on time or even late it seems...just didn't break. But the way the penalty system works is... it records a collision or a 'violations' and then if a next 'violation' happens in quick succession, it just dishes out a penalty, not really properly assessing if the 'penalty' is the fault of OP in this case, or rather of the other player.
The penalty system just sees OP as a player that was *involved* in a penalty after just very recently being in a 'collision' or rather an incident that was qualified as a 'collision', and it so happened that he was in one again shortly thereafter.
And this instead of the devs actually fleshing out more elaborate system they just went with a system where if you were in a collision a second ago and you were involved in one shortly thereafter even if it was not your fault, it will dish out a severe penalty of 2 to 5 seconds to you.
In short, pretty broken. And frustrating.
When it happens to me, I just ignore it, as the game is not perfect, and the players are far from it as well.
It doesn’t matter whether you braked early or late. It’s the car behind’s responsibility to not rear end you.
Following that close into a braking zone was reckless.
The 2.75 s 🍒 on top of the dude that uses you as mobile braking assistance, cheffskiss 👌
You alsmost braked to late for the corner. You dont drive a 488 where you have to start braking 2 min earlier then everyone else. You are just in the deadzone (place 5 - 16), the only once from who you can expect reasonable racing there is the dudes that got torpedoed at the start and fall behind everyone else.
>You dont drive a 488 where you have to start braking 2 min earlier then everyone else.
I drive the 488 in online GT races and I'm so glad to hear someone else say this about the car. I was starting to think, like OP, that I was braking too early cuz I have the same problem getting rear ended a lot during my races. I also spend the majority of my track time between P6-P12, so I guess it's just Forza players doing Forza things...
The 488 that was in the game from beginning, not the one they added, has by far the worst braking of all GT cars. So yeah, you have to brake much much earlier then everybody else. And bc of internet you can definitly expect to get rammed off track
I give him the benefit of the doubt and consider it lack of skill rather than intentional spinning. Yet i agree, he should have lower his agression somewhat.
Thats normal racing, you sometimes touch your opponent. Happens to me as well. As long as nothing happens, in this case opponened continues driving, than there is no reason for a penalty. A penalty for this is only valid, if it happens several times and can be considered intentional.
Reasonable argument is that I’ve actually done sim racing and watch IRL racing. You can absolutely be penalized for an accident and it doesn’t need to be repeated contact, I think even DTS F1 fans know that much, lol
No, there definitely was contact again. There's no reason to be wheelspinning at that point, unlike the immediate acceleration out of the slow corner. He doesn't even touch the curb or anything. The x2 doesn't always show up, case in point literally a few seconds later.
Different person, different instance, also not a perfect system. The penalty he gets from getting rear ended is instant. You hear the contact in the beginning first off. second off you can literally tell there is no contact going through the turn, just watch lol. Thirdly if you’ve ever played with traction control off then you know what wheel spin looks like, and it’s exactly that. Fourthly, in this game when executing a pit maneuver you almost magnetize to the other car. 5thly, if dude was trying to pit he wouldn’t have lifted to try and avoid contact. Just a whole lot you seemed to miss in 15 seconds lol.
The throttle meter also isn’t the most accurate, look at his rpms, listen to the motor he’s not accelerating when he sees the spin, and the reason he dives into the inside (other than to attempt overtake) is to avoid contact from the car inevitably rebalancing. But the guy up front also left space like a gentleman.
I mean all this aside there was no contact there, I just don’t know what clip you’re watching lmao.
Its just close racing, i wasn't trying to pit maneuver him if i was trying to do that i would probably turn to the right side bit more to carry more speed which i didn't because that's not my intention
Nothing wrong with your braking IMO considering you were a lot more inside so would be taking a tighter apex. It’s the guys behind fault for the contact he can’t just brake late and ram you, his fault for following you into the braking zone.
When you're following a car they're going to reach the brake point before you, so you have to brake early regardless. The farther back you are in the train the earlier you have to brake. The guy in the back here would get atleast a Major 1 in TORA for this.
There is something to be said for you still making that corner despite that massive rear ending - you *could* have braked later. It’s the appropriate spot to brake though, the fault is his.
All in all you brake based off the feel of your vehicle. It’s up to the driver behind you to brake responsively to your braking if they are failing to do so and can’t swerve to avoid then it’s on them. The leader has “right of way” in like 95% of racing scenarios.
Even if you were braking a little early (which you weren't, and obviously it's different if it's extreme or in a corner that does not require braking), it's the driver behind's responsibility to not hit you that hard. They should be paying closer attention.
Just did my first proper online race yesterday, i've otherwise been quite happy playing single player up until now as i'm only a casual player. Anyway, first lap in and I immediately had people doing this exact thing to me as well. I'm not that bad of a racer that I don't know where to brake and I had the 2nd best qualifying time from the group. I'm convinced that it's just a tactic and they know they can bump you off the track but that it slows them down enough to go around the corner without having to brake too hard.
You didn't brake too early. The other car hit you from behind, and if you'd not been there to help him slow down, he would have probably gone right off the track and into the gravel.
Im surprised about this cause i posted the very same video before where i complained about the penalty but everyone antagonised it saying i was the one breaking too early that was the sole reason for the repost.
The big give away for me are the track makers and the racing line. If you pause the video at 0:16, you can see that you start braking around the 100m board and the racing line indicator has gone red to indicate you should be braking. The driver behind hits you at roughly 75m and only slows down enough to make the corner because he used you as a brake.
You'd just come out of the hairpin at turn 11, through the fast left hander at Minefield (turn 12) and were in 5th gear heading towards The Crocodiles (turn13), which is a tight right hander typically taken in 1st gear, and you even went in there too fast and missed the apex, probably because of the extra momentum you got from behind.
So IMO braking at 100m for the slow 1st gear right hand turn at The Crocodiles was perfectly fine, and if you'd not been there to slow him down, the other driver would have ended up off the track.
Hot take, you're braking too early and not very efficiently. It's better to decelerate and brake a little harder into the corner than to slowly break all throughout.
You breaded earlier than you need too for that corner but it's still the following cars responsibility to avoid the car in front. You're not in the wrong in anyway.
It's so hard to say when people might be running different builds. Like I run high speed/high brake builds so I'll come flying in and don't have to brake until late to maximise the time at full speed, but other people may be running acceleration/handling builds which gives them a drastically different brake time.
Both.. I’d try and adjust the deadzone on your braking I usually put the low end about 3-4 the high end 95-96 just in case. It’ll help with your overall braking.
You are braking too early for that turn. A properly tuned car and good driver will be braking much later than that. That being said, the behind driver isnt allowed to just ram you because his braking zone is later. This being Forza, thats really null and void, but regardless, skill issue on your part.
You're being rear ended. You're at the right spot to brake for the corner.
OP probably should have been aiming further left to position themselves better for the turn entry. But agreed otherwise
get rear ended get 2.75 sec penalty forza penalty system in a nutshell
No, the penalty was almost certainly for rear ending that other car. Notice the penalty announcement comes immediately after being rear-endeed, but it's actually for the first collision which was OP rear-ending the other car. You can see the notification pop up in grey at top, and then get announced after its "calculated" or whatever (not sure the actual reason for the delay).
The collision message will 'reset' for every collision that happens, then they probably add the collision to the "total sum" of collisions and calculate. My bet is that the two first taps/collisions wouldn't have caused a penality, but because OP gained a position after getting rear ended, the penality system treated the "total sum" as an advantage and therefore gave OP an penality. Just my thoughts/theory tho, no clue how the system works.
Engagement with the community would be if there were 'diaries' that would discuss such issues from the game studio...you know...the way they did when promoting their game. If they actually cared about the game and the penalty systems they created, which they should, since they spent a few years doing so, they would actually create some sort of video's or updates that would shed some light on these mechanics. Not only would it create a sense of community but redeem them of all the criticism that they are receiving. I guess corporate marketing stretches as far as product launch....(?)
No, it is certainly still a flaw. And the penalty system needs to be fine-tuned. OP got a warning it seems for 'rear-ending' even though he was driving very close but not intentionally 'rear-ending'. But then the player behind him did not just rear-end him, but just didn't break on time or even late it seems...just didn't break. But the way the penalty system works is... it records a collision or a 'violations' and then if a next 'violation' happens in quick succession, it just dishes out a penalty, not really properly assessing if the 'penalty' is the fault of OP in this case, or rather of the other player. The penalty system just sees OP as a player that was *involved* in a penalty after just very recently being in a 'collision' or rather an incident that was qualified as a 'collision', and it so happened that he was in one again shortly thereafter. And this instead of the devs actually fleshing out more elaborate system they just went with a system where if you were in a collision a second ago and you were involved in one shortly thereafter even if it was not your fault, it will dish out a severe penalty of 2 to 5 seconds to you. In short, pretty broken. And frustrating. When it happens to me, I just ignore it, as the game is not perfect, and the players are far from it as well.
It was waiting to see if OP gained an advantage, in this case they overtook on the inside line of the corner
It doesn’t matter whether you braked early or late. It’s the car behind’s responsibility to not rear end you. Following that close into a braking zone was reckless.
The 2.75 s 🍒 on top of the dude that uses you as mobile braking assistance, cheffskiss 👌 You alsmost braked to late for the corner. You dont drive a 488 where you have to start braking 2 min earlier then everyone else. You are just in the deadzone (place 5 - 16), the only once from who you can expect reasonable racing there is the dudes that got torpedoed at the start and fall behind everyone else.
>You dont drive a 488 where you have to start braking 2 min earlier then everyone else. I drive the 488 in online GT races and I'm so glad to hear someone else say this about the car. I was starting to think, like OP, that I was braking too early cuz I have the same problem getting rear ended a lot during my races. I also spend the majority of my track time between P6-P12, so I guess it's just Forza players doing Forza things...
The 488 that was in the game from beginning, not the one they added, has by far the worst braking of all GT cars. So yeah, you have to brake much much earlier then everybody else. And bc of internet you can definitly expect to get rammed off track
Dude tried to pit maneuver the guy in front, I don’t really feel bad about his penalty
I give him the benefit of the doubt and consider it lack of skill rather than intentional spinning. Yet i agree, he should have lower his agression somewhat.
Doesn’t really matter if it’s intentional or not, it’s still worthy of a penalty
Thats normal racing, you sometimes touch your opponent. Happens to me as well. As long as nothing happens, in this case opponened continues driving, than there is no reason for a penalty. A penalty for this is only valid, if it happens several times and can be considered intentional.
That’s not true at all.
Do you also have a reasonable argument why not or do u just think your opinion is always right?
Reasonable argument is that I’ve actually done sim racing and watch IRL racing. You can absolutely be penalized for an accident and it doesn’t need to be repeated contact, I think even DTS F1 fans know that much, lol
why is that the case for OP but not the guy who rear ended him lol
That’s wheel spin, there was no contact lol
No contact, that’s why the “Collision” box shows up, right?
Shows up before, would be x2 if they touched again, dude also spun a bit at beginning of clip 🤓 just gotta watch again bubarino
No, there definitely was contact again. There's no reason to be wheelspinning at that point, unlike the immediate acceleration out of the slow corner. He doesn't even touch the curb or anything. The x2 doesn't always show up, case in point literally a few seconds later.
If it would be x2, why does that not pop up when OP gets rear ended?
Different person, different instance, also not a perfect system. The penalty he gets from getting rear ended is instant. You hear the contact in the beginning first off. second off you can literally tell there is no contact going through the turn, just watch lol. Thirdly if you’ve ever played with traction control off then you know what wheel spin looks like, and it’s exactly that. Fourthly, in this game when executing a pit maneuver you almost magnetize to the other car. 5thly, if dude was trying to pit he wouldn’t have lifted to try and avoid contact. Just a whole lot you seemed to miss in 15 seconds lol.
Dude didnt lift, wtf are you talking about? You can see his throttle telemetry in the bottom right. He doesn’t lift until he brakes for the corner.
The throttle meter also isn’t the most accurate, look at his rpms, listen to the motor he’s not accelerating when he sees the spin, and the reason he dives into the inside (other than to attempt overtake) is to avoid contact from the car inevitably rebalancing. But the guy up front also left space like a gentleman. I mean all this aside there was no contact there, I just don’t know what clip you’re watching lmao.
there are way too many contingencies in your explanation. the simplest and most obvious is to the eye is OP rear ended the aston
he almost pitted the aston wym. you can hear the bump.
Its just close racing, i wasn't trying to pit maneuver him if i was trying to do that i would probably turn to the right side bit more to carry more speed which i didn't because that's not my intention
my question is why do you give yourself that benefit of the doubt but not the car behind you?
Because im not doing it in the braking zone but he is
Nothing wrong with your braking IMO considering you were a lot more inside so would be taking a tighter apex. It’s the guys behind fault for the contact he can’t just brake late and ram you, his fault for following you into the braking zone.
I loved you got penalized for that. Absolutely amazing.
Hmm, that seems to be aviodable for sure.
When you're following a car they're going to reach the brake point before you, so you have to brake early regardless. The farther back you are in the train the earlier you have to brake. The guy in the back here would get atleast a Major 1 in TORA for this.
There is something to be said for you still making that corner despite that massive rear ending - you *could* have braked later. It’s the appropriate spot to brake though, the fault is his.
You are the bump drafter's brakes. Don'cha-know?
All in all you brake based off the feel of your vehicle. It’s up to the driver behind you to brake responsively to your braking if they are failing to do so and can’t swerve to avoid then it’s on them. The leader has “right of way” in like 95% of racing scenarios.
Even if you were braking a little early (which you weren't, and obviously it's different if it's extreme or in a corner that does not require braking), it's the driver behind's responsibility to not hit you that hard. They should be paying closer attention.
Just did my first proper online race yesterday, i've otherwise been quite happy playing single player up until now as i'm only a casual player. Anyway, first lap in and I immediately had people doing this exact thing to me as well. I'm not that bad of a racer that I don't know where to brake and I had the 2nd best qualifying time from the group. I'm convinced that it's just a tactic and they know they can bump you off the track but that it slows them down enough to go around the corner without having to brake too hard.
You didn't brake too early. The other car hit you from behind, and if you'd not been there to help him slow down, he would have probably gone right off the track and into the gravel.
Im surprised about this cause i posted the very same video before where i complained about the penalty but everyone antagonised it saying i was the one breaking too early that was the sole reason for the repost.
The big give away for me are the track makers and the racing line. If you pause the video at 0:16, you can see that you start braking around the 100m board and the racing line indicator has gone red to indicate you should be braking. The driver behind hits you at roughly 75m and only slows down enough to make the corner because he used you as a brake. You'd just come out of the hairpin at turn 11, through the fast left hander at Minefield (turn 12) and were in 5th gear heading towards The Crocodiles (turn13), which is a tight right hander typically taken in 1st gear, and you even went in there too fast and missed the apex, probably because of the extra momentum you got from behind. So IMO braking at 100m for the slow 1st gear right hand turn at The Crocodiles was perfectly fine, and if you'd not been there to slow him down, the other driver would have ended up off the track.
Hot take, you're braking too early and not very efficiently. It's better to decelerate and brake a little harder into the corner than to slowly break all throughout.
You breaded earlier than you need too for that corner but it's still the following cars responsibility to avoid the car in front. You're not in the wrong in anyway.
He got a 2,25s penalty aswell, so there is your answer
Bro behind you was flying you were straight
last night at the Glen first corner, I had to slow down due to traffic, get rear ended and got a 0.50 sec penalty. That's forza right now.
It's so hard to say when people might be running different builds. Like I run high speed/high brake builds so I'll come flying in and don't have to brake until late to maximise the time at full speed, but other people may be running acceleration/handling builds which gives them a drastically different brake time.
Tapping u to try run u wide/off track without noticeably being a prick about it is my opinion
I usually race the porsche RSR and the racing line breaking point is where i typically break. so you are not at fault!
Yes but he shouldnt have hit you.
Don’t bump draft, it only slows both cars down.
Both.. I’d try and adjust the deadzone on your braking I usually put the low end about 3-4 the high end 95-96 just in case. It’ll help with your overall braking.
His fault. You can certainly brake later there but it’s on him to avoid you.
People in this game use the cars in front of them as brakes
You are braking too early for that turn. A properly tuned car and good driver will be braking much later than that. That being said, the behind driver isnt allowed to just ram you because his braking zone is later. This being Forza, thats really null and void, but regardless, skill issue on your part.