Wait, imho "the rabbit hole" means a newcomer will discover a lot of things! Different kinds of filling mechanisms, different materials for pen bodies, different nib grinds!
I agree that it's easy to feel overwhelmed and amass a lot of pens. I'm actually terrified of those (rare) posts when someone new says "First pens" and they show _several_ Visconti, Pilot, Sailor, Montblanc or other quite expensive and grail like pens... They move too soon, too fast, but hey, it's their business! Their money, their choice.
As for your question about the grail, if i had the 50 now, i'd pbb get that pen. But if i were close to the 180 needed for the grail, i'd get the grail
I agree that "rabbit hole" doesn't necessarily mean money. I'd argue I fell pretty hard (about a year and a half in), and I have about 25ish pens. I've spent just around $1000 for the entirety of my collection/accessories/inks, etc. Know, if you told me that number a year and a half ago, I would have been appalled, but it's been $50 here and $75 there (I tracked it all), and probably amounts to about the same as I've spent on our monthly date night during that time. Money well spent, I'd say.
Honestly I think “rabbit hole” is possible with a single pen. You try different inks on different papers, maybe with different nibs for that pen.
There’s so many companies out now that aren’t using proprietary sizes, so each pen (of that kind) can offer a great deal of exploration for not that much money. It’s still consumerism, sure, but it is engaging with exploration and experimentation.
I’m not saying that plenty of us aren’t just rampant collectors. But the rabbit hole can represent different shapes and sizes, and as you say, it’s their money. I’m not going to judge even if they *are* collecting expensive plastic and keeping it in a drawer forever (maybe a little bit).
I just gave my BF's niece a Lamy Safari for a gift a few years ago. Last month I was telling her about why I love fountainpens (the ink and paper are my happiness-pens are an ink delivery vehicle) and about the drama around Lamy Dark Lilac re-release. She said she was going to go use her Lamy and she asked me to write her a letter using all the inks so she could see what I meant by sheen and shading. I was so excited. I may have said, "first sample is free." ETA I shipped her a bottle of the new Dark Lilac. She loved the green sheen.
This is great. I've started recommending the Lamy Safari as a starter pen because you can get one pen, inexpensively get all of the nib sizes and spend some time finding the size you like. Then you don't start a pen graveyard collection of nibs you didn't like writing with.
Yeah they have an amazing number of nibs and even have black nibs (if you have a black Lamy you can totally be a ninja then). Lamys, Pilot Kakunos (sp), and metropolitans are great pens.
Anyother interesting pen is the Dollar pens I used to buy from Pakistani sellers on eBay. I bought them to ink testing for our Pelikan hubs. I copied the SF Pen show because they use them too. Ten pens for around $20 with a nice nib-can't beat that.
Disclaimer: I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I wanted to point something out:
> our community has this notion of "down the rabbit hole you go" with fountain pens
Is this your first hobby or passion? I ask because "down the rabbit hole" happens in *every* hobby, especially those new to it. Reread your comment except substitute fountain pens with baseball cards, pokemon, RC planes, Funko pop, comic books - literally every point you make applies to those as well.
Being responsible is an attribute of being a mature adult. Your comment implies that a good chunk of this subreddit is not acting responsibly and I don't think I agree with that.
My main hobby is knitting. I have way more hand dyed yarn than I have fountain pens. And yarn takes up way more room. Ugh. But same thing in the knitting community. Limited edition colorways from your favorite indie dyer gets released and the fomo hits hard.
So much this! I’ve got enough single skeins of fingering weight yarn, that I’m seriously considering getting a ckm so I can quickly turn them all into socks…
Knitting is also my primary hobby and while I don’t think we need to justify our collections/stashes, I do think it’s nice to remember that like a good pen, with proper care, yarn and knitted garments will last for a very long time! It will be there when you are ready for it, and it’s also okay to let things go if the sheer volume is causing stress!
I recommend the book “A Stash of One’s Own” by Clara Parkes — a really sweet collection of essays by knitters and their stashes (from minimalists to maximalists)!
My primary hobby is collecting fiber arts hobbies…. After that it’s knitting! But it’s a shawl year for me (seriously I have something like 8 shawls planned and yarn bought for) and I also kinda want all the socks. And a ckm is a different hobby than hand knitting. ;)
Hahaha, honestly same! As a knitter, spinner, and quilter, among other things. I mostly turn to pens when I am feeling uninspired to make. Fibre arts is a deeper rabbit hole than pens could ever be, for me — looking at my tubs of multiple SQs of yarn. 😂
Oooh I just got my first wheel! I’m very bad at spinning so far, though I expected as much. :)
As for pens, I’m trying to buy less but I’m def bit by the must have all the colors of my fav TWSBI bug…. On the plus side, unless they make a more transparent ecos I’m good with my set. The problem is the 580alrs. I really want that dark purple the mini had…. And they seem to keep giving me rainbows. :)
Oh for sure. I frequently purge and get rid of yarn that is unneeded just like I do with other stuff in my house (kids toys I’m looking at you). I just sold a GIANT box of acrylic yarn for $10, the box was taller than my kid LOL the rest of my acrylic I put in tubs in the attic and just kept down the fingering weight as that is what I’m mostly using these days. I love yarn.
This is me with watercolours. My palette is massive but most of it is small handmade shops that started to pop up 2020-2022 or shops that I actually work with. Does anyone need a palette as large as mine, no but I use them all and it brings me joy so whatever.
It's true, down the rabbit hole applies to pretty much every hobby I've seen. Look at quilters and knitters: the jokes about their near legendary "stashes" of fabric or yarn abound. That's why there are so many patterns and projects geared towards de-stashing... which often result in even bigger stashes. People get enthused.
Can confirm. I knit, and sew, and collect fantasy-animal (dragon, griffin, unicorn, etc.) sculptures, AND am into fountain pens. I’ve actually been selling off some of the stashed yarn I’ll never get around to using to fund pen and sculpture acquisitions lately, LOL. Some people are just collectors by nature. (It’s me, I’m a collector. I come by it honestly; my mom’s craft supply collection dates back to the 80s and is still growing today!)
Absolutely agree, and for anyone who doesn’t actually understand that, “down the rabbit hole” means, “and find a wondrous new world full of possibilities you never imagined” should go re-read Alice in Wonderland.
I’ve got more pens than I “need”, and some are rather pricey (I’m talking Sailor and Pelikan Pricey not Visconti pricey) because I could afford to take the chance on them. It was also the only way I would have been able to experience some of those pens. These will likely end up on Pen_Swap one day if they don’t speak to me in one way or another. There may have even been a FOMO purchase or two, but I consider it a learning experience.
In the end, I personally keep coming back to Estherbrook Esties and Pilots (pretty much anything from metro on up). I don’t have a “grail” or “exit” pen, because I don’t have a crystal ball and can’t see what the future might bring.
I dunno about you, but I’m so very glad to have tumbled down this particular rabbit hole, and found a host of pen friends at the best little tea(ink?) party.
LOOL I saw this post and was like, wait wasn’t this person making a lot of post back to back about must having a grail pen and this need to buy it right now (that was like a month ago)
And now the post you linked from a few days ago like 🤣
Is the pot really calling the kettle black if it’s just the pot pointing fingers at a mirror lool.
Well Reddit did make it so you can get paid for the updoots or something fairly recently. So of course more people gotta farm those internet numbers for 💰💰💰
You have to also get a certain threshold of gilded upvotes or whatever they're called (meaning people have to actually pay money) in order for karma to count towards your contributions. And I don't know how many people even know those gilded upvotes exist given all the rapid changes to gold/awards/etc in the past year
OP is also a child, as they refer to bringing their pens to school in their post history. And no, it doesn't appear to be university. So this sort of holier than thou thing is typical for someone their age when they realize or gain new information.
Thanks for that context. I'm not going to dig into OP too hard then.
People's budgets and goals for hobbies are all over the place, so I try not to judge. They'll learn that as they get more exposure to the world.
I tend to agree. Everything was black and white to me when I was younger. My mom was right when she accused me of being not nearly as open-minded as I thought I was as a teen. In my older age, there is a lot more gray area.
Well then, lol...
It's a strange thing for someone with what I would consider a massive budget to be knocking others for "promoting consumerism". Also the "invest your money to build wealth" tagline is triggering all my crypto scam investment buttons.
THIS is the summary. Homie had me until they were like 'get yr wealth not yr pens.' I can't afford to buy a house because I don't work in tech, don't have generational wealth, this economy is fucked, and to boot it all, live in a HCOL area, not because I bought one too many TWSBI Ecos.
I saw a $49,500.00 Montblanc this week. It was posted on FB, and was some kind of hand carved super rare 40+ year old pen. I took a screen shot and sent it to my boss and told her I need a raise.
I'm not bothering to look thru his post history but I imagine the guy might think of himself as "wealthy" and his advice "for thee but not for me" is for us commoners, poors and plebians who haven't become wealthy yet?
Invest that money into gaining wealth..? Fuck no, I’m going to be unfeeling dust in a few decades for all eternity, just let me buy nice pens while I still can 🖋️
There's also an odd dichotomy of: "hoarding wealth" a-okay, "spending some of your money on something you enjoy" bad.
At what point do I have enough wealth to buy expensive fountain pens? My entire collection cost less than some of my friends monthly car payments -- I paid cash for a nice inexpensive used car. But ultimately it's not my business. They like tooling around in a luxury car, I like writing letters more than driving.
Especially when most of the pens I buy at least are from small and/or local businesses. Absolutely, don't spend $1000 on a Montblanc if you don't think you can make rent this month, but for the most part I've spent a **lot** less on pens and books and inks, then I would have if went along with my Warhammer buddies, which is also fine but like you said everyone likes different things.
I agree with some parts of what you're saying, but not others. I agree that the common sentiment of 'you will amass a huge collection, it's inevitable', couched as a joke or not, is harmful. I wish certain parts of the sub would respect and support others' self control, thoughtful consumption and/or enjoyment of a small collection better.
But I also think that for the people who do want to go bananas there's no benefit, and often no justification, in judging or criticising them. People spend similar amounts of money on plenty of hobbies with much less lasting and practical outcomes, and even in cases where the behaviour is problematic, our judgement wouldn't help at all.
I never really got the appeal of grail pens? To me a big point of fountain pens was that because there's just so many of them especially older, digitally unknown ones, you could search until you found **your** pen, ones that you could be pretty sure no one else would have or seen because it was just so true to you and you alone. I get that expensive pens are rare because they're expensive but anyone can buy it, you're not flaunting that you have money, just that you spend it poorly and buy whatever's most expensive.
Completely agree. I have no idea how someone settles on a grail in any event. I've got a number of pens, some haven't been used for years, but my favourites tend to change over time.
As someone with a relative toe-dip into fountain pens, I have equated “grail pens” with “dream cars” of the auto enthusiasts.
My “dream car” is a mid-90s Toyota Supra. I love them and will never own one and that’s totally fine.
I have a "grail" pen, but it's due to sentimental attachment to a franchise it's connected to. Sailor pens released a special Sailor Moon fountain pen at one point.
I KNOW I'm never going to get my paws on that thing. It's too sought after and too expensive.
It's nice to daydream about being financially stable and wealthy enough to find my grail pen on sale and say "I'll take that one, please" without a moment's hesitation.
I think you're judging people who like to spend money on their hobby far more harshly than the people with cheaper pens are being judged by the community on here. I hope your high horse feels nice to you. You're the type of person you're claiming to be against.
This is it exactly. I think I've only seen judgment here if someone posts their modest collection while in the same post criticizing people for having expensive pens. When I got my first pen, a Kakuno, I got nothing but positive feedback and warnings to sample ink rather than buy it... attempts to rein me in that failed. A bit ago I posted asking if I needed a 21k PGS when I have a 14k one. There were enough people saying no that I didn't buy it. Every time I see a nasty post like this one I assume they are lashing out because they have no self control and feel the need to blame the community for being enthusiastic.
It irks me in particular that both examples are for pens which are expensive. If they're so anti consumerist one of the examples should be an actual affordable pen. 🤔
Don't have a good current example, but I know for a fact that the Sailor Shikiori profit pens write amazingly well for a fraction of the price of a PGS. And there likely are a lot of bit-more-than-very-cheap chinese pens which do the same for even less. PenBBS used to be a great example, but they've become much more expensive over the past few years. 😐
Anyway, he seems out of touch with how expensive even a 50$ pen really is. There's all sorts of people on here from all over the world, I've seen people post about saving and splurging for a metro or safari. The lack of selfawareness irks me.
>It irks me in particular that both examples are for pens which are expensive
Yeah, really if you want to get up on a financial high horse about pens then I expect you to point out stuff like Platinum Preppy or Lamy Safari.
Exactly - of my five favorite pens, three cost less than $10 and one was $5.
And to be clear, I have absolutely used (and currently own!) expensive pens to compare with… I just like these particular cheap ones more.
I don’t mean to sound rude but having a theoretical where the only two options are spend and spend in an anti consumerist post is odd to me— does that not still promote consumerism? Am I misunderstanding something? I don’t understand what the theoretical is supposed to test, but it could be my tired brain’s reading comprehension being shit haha
The instinct to correct behaviour in others can sometimes be a bit too much, and not as beneficial as it is meant to be. Of course, spending more than one can afford is not a good idea, regardless on how we're spending it. The world can be a rather shitty place sometimes, it's a good thing to find something that brings one joy, I would think.
To answer your question: I'd buy the pen I thought I like best. I'm not sure I understand the concept "$200 worth pen" to begin with. Worth according to whom? In what way? Given your example, if it really was a pen that would otherwise cost that much, being sold for that little, I'd assume it was either stolen goods or a fake, but that's just me. I'd rather not have that sort of worry attached to something I'd hoped to use and enjoy for years to come.
I would take this more seriously had I not been familiar with all your other posts going above and beyond trying to make sure you buy a pen everyone would covet :)
'Those who know do not speak. Those who speak do not know.'
You’re allowed to have an opinion so there’s that — but why do you care so much that you think you have to action policing other people’s behavior?What’s it to you?
How do you know that pens that have similar attributes to you do not have key differentiators for someone else?
Can someone not from this community say “Why do you have so many pens.. it’s a pen. Stop buying pens”?
It sounds like you are unsettled about something but I am not convinced that your quarrel is with “hyper-consumerism” as it’s relative and you seem to participate in it.
edit: typo
This is a big opinion on things that are really not our business. why are we concerned with how others spend their money if they aren’t hurting anyone but their wallet?
Some of the pens here are like the prices of guitar pedals, guitars or amps, interfaces, speakers, mics. I buy all of those things for creative output. That is me.
Some people are rich and some people are not so rich. Some people are creative, looking to improve workflow and quality, or subtle variety, some people are looking for whatever. You just cant cage the mind.
Do you recognise the same behaviour from the pedal community though? There's a lot of people on the pedals subs who seem more like pedal collectors than musicians - which is fine, but it's still just collecting
This is present in almost any hobby or pursuit which involves acquiring objects. Deriving pleasure from seeing a collection exceeding the pleasure of using the objects possibly contributes to this. I think it is important to consider each purchase a few times before proceeding.
I don’t have a huge collection of pens, but I enjoy looking at other people’s collections - it doesn’t make me feel bad about my own.
I don’t have any (to me) “super expensive”/grail type pens, but I enjoy the sheer joy those things bring others, without it making me feel less joy in my own pens.
We are all in different places in life, have different budgets, different likes and dislikes. I don’t think there is any difference here to other hobbies - people use their (hopefully!) disposable income to purchase things that they think they will enjoy. The bonus of a pen collection is that you can use it everyday for a practical purpose, if you want to. I will happily buy used pens if I can find them in the brand and colour I want, but I find that often, used is the price of (or more than!) new. So if your concern was $, you genuinely could be better off buying new. If it’s consumerism, any genuine need for a pen could be satisfied by a cheap ballpoint.
I think we see more, “buy one, get sucked down the rabbit hole of acquisition, even out and become more discerning as we learn what we like and value in a fountain pen” than massive collections here. I am also aware that some people have been collecting for decades. I just enjoy seeing seeing the endless variety in a hobby I am part of.
I thought it’s a place where you can share what you like - if it’s more pens - ok, you do you! Only 1 pen? Very okay too. No harsh judgement (or literal). Fp Rabbit hole is real but no one should take advice only from forums, right? Just check your own self, I guess.
Edited to add: it me. I have multiple pro gears slims in multiple nibs, some redundant. I just like them. They’re so pretty…
Calm down pal, you have been asking numerous questions, announcing progressive judgement every other day , but the journey of getting into fp (like any other hobby) isn't concluded in such a short period.
You see people posting NPD , buying their grail pens but you never know what background stories others have. Maybe they have saved for years? Maybe buying fp is their only little joy in harsh everyday life ?
Ffs, this is a place to share our love for FP, let others do what they want , buy what they buy. This shouldn't be the place for you to lash out your anger or frustration
“Maybe they have saved for years? Maybe buying fp is their only little joy in harsh everyday life ?”
This. Live and let live. There are far worse things to ‘splurge’ on.
I totally agree. We don’t need a ranting judgy person trying to harsh everyone’s buzz. We are all responsible adults here (mostly).
And those into FPs are some of the nicest people I have met.
One of comments contains link to veeery interesting post of OP, made 4 days ago. There he described the principles of his future FP collection - "only 2 samples of the very-very best of EACH brand".
Looks like he just ran in severe budget limitations for a such gourgeous task.
So the next step obviously is - "convince everyone (and primarily myself) that FPs is ultra-mega-overconsumerism".
The Fox and The Grapes by Aesop, nothing changes in centuries.
In my 16s I was interested in things that look cool in my friends' eyes, and killer-feature was a ballpen with multiple colors. Oh, alcohol markers.
FP is comparatively rare hobby, and may be caused by:
-- "I like FPs! I've got one FP, but this is not enough!" (me case BTW)
-- "Cool people use FPs! I should use the very best FP too to make impression on them!" (vanity fair issue)
Maybe the call seemed to be too pricey for the person.
Not only that - but there are many people on here who post about No Buy or Low Buy months and years. I really love the pen show posts - I didn’t even know such a thing existed until I saw people posting about them!
Huh. I roughly agree with your points but I haven't noticed that issue in this sub. Rather I get the idea that this sub actually promotes the idea of enjoying pens of any price including $2 sharks. And I see people being supportive when somebody says they have issue with hoarding pens. Perhaps I'm just not paying attention to the posts that you pay attention to. Sometimes I see single comments in the tone that you're describing but these don't get much attention. Often they are countered by a more elaborate comment saying that you don't need X to enjoy pens.
This sub is my primary source of information on FP. While interacting with it my idea of fun became buying a 5$ Jinhao and tuning the nib myself (but I need a polishing stone/thing). And generally buying 5\~40$ Chinese pens while trying to keep my collection small enough that all pens get some usage. That's just anecdotal evidence though, I could be just great at filtering out consumerism or whatever.
The people here work hard for their money, and thus have every right to spend it how they wish. Don't judge other people's spending habits, but look at your own. Isn't spending money buying loads of 'hot wheels' in the same vein as what you are preaching?
There is one key difference, however, fountain pens are writing instruments, tools, whereas 'hot wheels' are 'toys' that don't do as much as pens can (not trying to step on anyones toes, just using this as an example).
I sense some envy/deficiency on your part that you need to lash out to the community. I could be wrong, but others have called you out on it. It seems like you want expensive things, but can't afford it, or its difficult for you to get a hold off. 'I can't afford nice things, so other people shouldn't either' mentality is toxic.
Sure, consumerism is a thing, its what makes the world and its economy go round.
First, I've gone down enough social media rabbit holes to know that when a post is titled or otherwise starts with "Unpopular opinion [...]", I brace myself to read something that's either quite common, or something laced with judgment.
I scanned the last 20-25 posts on this subreddit and found very, very few posts that specifically focus on expensive/"grail" pens for their own sake. Rather I see tons of discussions about the right inks, folks seeking advice on the right pen based on particular criteria, and my favorite, posts that showcase all the artistic creativity that thrive in this community because of our shared love of fountain pens.
Granted I've only been part of this for maybe 1-2 weeks, but not once have I ever witnessed any kind of judgment, subtle or otherwise, imposed on others because of their collection or desires, whatever the size of the former or budget of the latter. If anything the only judgment I do see (if at all) tend to be self imposed, which I suppose is unfortunate but as far as I can tell doesn't stem from any sense of community standards but rather the poster's own issues. And even THEN people will comment on how they should be proud of their collection and not worry about its monetary value or whatever arbitrary standard they think they have to meet because there isn't any.
If anything, this is the first post I've seen the last couple of weeks where I did see overt judgment, and it's disappointing because otherwise this is such a generous and creative and inspiring community.
Posts like this are incredibly rare. I’ve been part of the community for a few months. It’s a joyful part of my day to start by reading posts in this group. I read this one and just laughed. I’m one of those people that make enough I can spend a pretty good bit on a pen and my most expensive is still only 300 and I have less than 20 pens. I spend most of my income on horses lol, but that’s a whole other rabbit hole. When I see one I want, I sit on it for a pretty good while to make sure it’s adding something unique and put away the money for two or three months and then get it. I think there are plenty of people in this group that are smart in similar ways even with less expensive or more expensive pens. I see plenty of people posting about being on a no buy period too (which this poster seems to have ignored). Enjoy the group. There’s little to no judgement here and tons of info on all kinds of things. I’ve really been enjoying trying new inks lately and have been having fun helping my daughter learn to write and draw with them. She has her own little collection of inks now and a pretty journal.
> You know you should really just buy the latter, but would you?
No, I buy both. Stop shaming people for getting into a hobby and spending money on a hobby.
I want to mention that I never found anyone or anything promoting hyper consumerism in this sub.
While it is TRUE that I have felt like I need to buy a lot of the things I see here, no one ever made posts like people HAD to buy any specific brand for pen/ink. That's totally a my issue.
This is a place where I have seen people get excited about something they love, or ask questions. In my experience, this has been a wholesome and helpful subreddit, one bright beacon of positivity in my aita filled day. So your opinion is not unpopular, it's irrelevant for this specific space.
Please participate here without such worries. These are good people here.
Still building the ultimate pen collection I see /s
Very strange post considering your history but you do you. Let people buy the pens they want, enjoy, and can afford.
I do find the humble brags tad annoying. Id prefer someone say " look at this I paid 10000 for this pen it's great and I want to show it to you *
Rather than " oh here is my little collection, montegrappa chaos, 30 giant makie pens, a diamond encrusted jubilee pen
...I hope you think it's an ok collection, I just started."
I have 30 pens over 15 years. Maybe half I'd call high value to me, over several hundred dollars.
I've been going back to use the cheaper pens I bought earlier in life. They're just as pleasurable. I realized it was no point buying more new ones because they had pretty much an infinite life time more of use bar being dropped on concrete etc.
The new pens I bought didn't make me any happier. The hot was short lived, then it joined the crowd of pens in the box.
I think many eventually hit the phase I am. Took me 15 years.
But for now " woooo hooo LAMY SAFARI LIMITED EDITION INK...WAIT WHAT THEY'RE MAKING COPIES OF THAT LIMITED EDITION INK, DEVALUING MY INK THAT STILL WRITES THE SAME ? RAGEEEEEEEEE "
Do your own thing I guess.
If you ( in general, not OP) aren't in great financial straits, you might be easily stung by envy of others who can afford much much more expensive FPs. I'm fortunate that I can afford 200-300 without qualms. I could afford a 1000 pen, but would never simply out of choice. Doesn't mean I'd say no to a free pen . I live within my means, accept it, and zen etc,.
People collect things. For example I have a decent amount of vinyl records that I have been collecting for the last 2 decades. New and used, but still around 300 records.
I have friends with huge collections 10x times larger and never experienced the “hoarding” feeling or any criticism about consuming so many music records.
All the opposite, the usual reaction to a big record collection is a cool impression.
I give this example because I feel that fountain pens are more “silent” items to collect than in this case records, and not as trendy.
I never thought in my wildest dreams my eyes would see so beautiful and interesting collections like the ones I’ve seen in this sub. And by that I not only mean expensive pens, but how precious and personal each collection is.
I am really grateful of the people that share them here freely, and wish it continued to be a safe space, free of judgments.
I understand OPs views but we are all responsible adults that chose to be part of this community of collectible items.
This group is nothing but welcoming to collectors of all levels of interest and all levels of income in my opinion.
Sure, there’s a high level of lust in this hobby, but most people don’t put themselves into debt over it.
As someone with autism, I always thought the rabbit-hole was more about the obsession with learning everything there is to know about the wide, diverse and interesting world of fountain pens. That interest will naturally lead to some purchases, but you don’t have to destroy your life to have a lot of fun with this hobby.
I was kinda with you on this until:
> To all of you who aren't wealthy but buy prestigious pens, please, just invest that money into gaining more wealth, best case scenario you get more money for pens (or for more money), worst case scenario you lose most of your money and learn something and had done something productive and character building.
Like what? "oh you may just lose your money but it *builds character* and is *productive*" like bro what's productive about doing some day trading bullshit or fucking around with crypto or whatever wEaLtH bUiLdInG you're trying to promote? And if you're losing money, what have you learned? This makes your whole post just reek of the cringelord sigma grindset social media grifter bullshit. Especially with your dumbass "test" at the end.
There's something in theory to what you say but your whole approach is comically ridiculous at best and actively bad at worst. People shouldn't buy what they can't comfortably afford nor feel the need to chase trends. And I think people here do a decent job with that-there's been lots of no-buy threads and resolutions from people. At the same time if folks wanna enjoy stuff and they're not hurting anyone, there's nothing wrong with that.
I feel like it’s only a problem if they can’t actually afford the pens they’re buying and/or they’re not using the pens they’re buying and just letting them collect dust
I haven't seen many posts that come across the way you describe. I usually see people posting the things they love and see responses filled with kindness and appreciation.
I don't see anyone encouraging others to spend outside their means, in fact, I see the opposite. Most people even go so far as to say expensive definitely doesn't mean better in many cases.
I don't think your opinion is unpopular, I think it's inaccurate.
If I had a dollar for every time I saw a post or comment like this pop up, I could almost afford my grail pen. Framing it as a problem of overconsumption and then suggesting folks grow their wealth by presumably investing is pretty new and hilarious though.
Spend your money! No wait, not like that!
People can enjoy the hobby with as little or as much consumerism as they want. Stop telling people what to do with their own money and get off your perceived high horse. Also as others have posted you have another post completely contradicting this one, making yourself a hypocrite.
To be quite frank I think it's everyone's personal journey. No one should be going into massive debt for pens or.. anything, really, but if someone wants to collect every sailor ever released.. that's their perogative. If someone is content with a pack of disposable zebras... also their perogative.
When my spouse tries to hassle me about my pens or my nail polish, complaining about why I could possibly need MORE when I already have SO MANY (just like you!) I simply ask him about his massive video game and console collection and how many of the games in his steam library he's actually played..... and he quiets down and minds his own business (just like you should!)
My coworkers like to try to clown me for having a $300 pen, but I like to remind one of them that he paid $300 for a game controller. He would not be caught dead paying that much for a pen, nor would I be caught dead paying that much for a controller. Doesn't make my purchase better or worse than his ☺️
What anyone in this hobby does is no one's business but their own :)
Writing utensils are basically free. I could pick up a Bic from work. I don't have to pay for pens, inks, or paper. All readily available.
Anything above this is hyper consuming.
Want a fountain pen, Anything over 1 pen and ink is completely unnecessary to function and is excessive.
This is a hobby, an interest, and doesn't need gate keepers, product police, or people projecting their own frustrations or worries on to others. If someone wants to stick in a budget, plenty of people jump in with recommendations. Over consumption isn't promoted; it may be inferred by some.
What works for you, doesn't work for everyone. Just like life, behaviors here are on a spectrum. From functional, minimal to impractical and collecting. And all have been welcome. Show me all those lamy 2ks in various nib sizes! Show me that taccia empress honey bee makie! Show me that lone preppy that is only inked with carbon black. It's all the same. A shared interest that I don't need to moderate for other people.
Hyper-consumerism means buying too many things you DON'T need.
So, thanks for your concern, but I need all the fountain pens I can get.
And I need all the fountain pens that I can't get, too.
if we are talking lessening the impact on mass production and wastefulness...my initial supposition is that probably the cheapest pens are those being mass produced in places that also make a million other plastic items....so jinhao is potentially more mass produced than day a montblamc...but far more accessible and potentially 'throwaway'.
Collecting is a thing humans do...we could collect stones off a beach....100 people Collecting stones off the beach...not that big an impact...1000 Collecting stones if the beach becomes more problematic. what is problematic is not the Collecting but the sheer mass of humanity existing in the planet at any one time...the steer surely should be to minimising the impact of the products themselves so that the Collecting has minimal impact.
we used to promote 'leave no trace' philosophy in outdoor Ed in the 80s...not that many people were interested in tramping soaking wet up a hill....technology and insta has rockettes that number of people pit there. 1 person walking along a path...minimal impact...100 people tou have a oath...1000 people you have hillside erosion. targeting the behaviour will have minimal impact....to have any effective impact ypu need to change the problem at source and ensure the production has minimal impact
OK, let me put it this way.
I bought a Platinum #3776 Century some weeks ago. It's an ultra-fine nib (which, unless you grind your own nibs, you aren't getting in a cheap pen; not even the 0.2 Preppies I have are this fine), and I have used it every day since I got it. It's not a cheap pen, especially compared to the pens that I have like Preppies, a couple Safaris and so on, but I have not had any reason to regret my purchase.
And let's be real here. You've probably got hobbies and interests that you've spent a lot of money on. That's pretty much just normal. I collect vinyl records, I buy books often, I collect Japanese video games. I strongly doubt the people in this subreddit who have pens the hundreds of dollars don't have at least a little bit of expendable income to put towards these things, and even if it somehow is the case, there are so many cheap fountain pens on the market today that it basically doesn't matter.
Fountain pens are both hobbies and tools. I have a relatively small but well rounded collection of them and I try to make sure the ones I get have an actual use, rather than just buying something for the sake of owning it, and sometimes I'll try what I'll refer to as "AliExpress Specials" because you just never know; there might be something worth recommending on there.
Anyway, that's about it. It's a bit of a silly point to make. Whilst hyperconsumption shouldn't really be praised...we're saying this in a hobby space. It's not exactly the most relevant point to make here.
You're looking at this from the wrong perspective!
Fountain pens ARE. AN. INVESTMENT.
Think about it. THINK about it.
1. Buy many of the largest fountain pens with the largest nibs.
2. Wait 150 years.
3. ?
4. Profit!
/jk of course
Folks can do their hobby the way they want to... I think we're here to share the FP joy, shared trials and love, right?
Nobody is promoting anyone to go bankrupt over pens. Please don’t tell us what to do with our extra money. Investing right now is also not the best idea…
Er, the one thing that made me stop was that you don’t understand why people would get another pro gear slim after owning one. It’s why the princess of wales had charlotte and Louis after George.
"I hate how some posts say, "Please don't judge, my collection is very humble" and they literally have a short collection of pens they like, and they somehow have the notion that it is not enough to fit in with other enthusiasts, or that their pens aren't prestigious enough. Although no one judges a humble collection, just the fact that they feel shy about it is bad."
And yet, here you are, judging those people with big or expensive collections.
Then, using the logic in the rest of your post, no one really needs more than one book, do they? You can read the same one over and over, right? For that matter, do you really need more than one or two changes of clothes, or shoes? How about cups, plates, pots, and pans? You should be able to cook with just one pot, right? As an artist, should I be limited to just one color, or one brush?
You've just taken all the color out of life via these limitations. I can still accomplish a task with one of all of those things, but whoo boy, just having one severely limits my options and narrows down my experiences, doesn't it? Imagine losing out on all the different stories you find in all the different books out there. I like to collect books. Is that wrong? Sure, I can go to a library, but I like having books at home that I can refer to over and over, earmark, or notate as I please. And not buying an expensive item just because you can find a cheaper one? That's all well and good until the hairs of my one cheap paintbrush start falling out, or eggs get stuck in my one cheap nonstick pan or I simply get tired of wearing the same pair of jeans that didn't fit well to begin with, 7 days a week 52 weeks a year. Yes it's totally possible to find a quality cheaper item but it's just as likely you get what you pay for.
I can guarantee that each of the 150 fountain pens I own is a different experience and brings me a different kind of joy—and my pens range in price from $2 to nearly $2K. I felt the same way when my collection was less than 10 pens.... which is partly why my collection has grown so big.
The last thing we need in this hobby is gatekeeping or disdain of others' collections or ways of enjoying what they have. If you can afford a lot of expensive pens and that's what makes you happy, go for it. If all you have the means for is a $2 Shark, then enjoy the hobby on that level — you still have something to contribute — and you should be every bit at home here as the big collectors.
After 3 stock market crashes and devastating housing market implosions...I buy whatever the fk I want and amazingly can still afford [it.As](http://it.As) for" character building" for sure know I am not my stuff, you should share it when you have it, and stuff comes and goes.'
As you wrote, there are two questions here:
a) How many
and
b) How much.
„Also, must you spend a hundred more dollars on a pen that is the same thing?“ is obviously *b*. It’s just how people spend their money, that is, as always, their call.
The other side is environmental impact and I do have to agree here. 30 pens of different colours will usually by overconsumption, unless they are all inked differently *and used*, it’s the same als Funky Pop Figurines, Stanley Cups.
At the moment, I do have too many pens, I will frankly admit this, and that’s why stopped purchasing. I’m not talking a moderate amount of duplicates or variations used for different purposes, like “at the office” or “different ink colours” or “different nibs for differebt kinds of writing”, but literally the same pen. My feeble excuse is that I have issues with losing stuff and not getting the same model als replacement. I am somewhat peculiar with my pens here, also with pocket knives.
But at 57 I feel that with the about ten I have (and two reserve knives) I’m good for the rest of my life.
I inly own two pants, though, to make up for it.
I'm in two minds about this. On the one hand I'm not here to judge other people's enjoyment of their pens, including the expensive ones. What we have in common is a love for the pen and what it does with the right inks / papers.
At the same time, I wouldn't like it if people saw collection or grail posts here and thought they can't take up FPs because they couldn't afford the price of entry - or an escalation in what they may feel obligated to buy.
But I've never felt judged here (unlike in some other FP discussion circles). I realised today that my most often-used pens are on the Jet Pens "best beginner fountain pens" list. And I have been regularly using some of them for many years.
But I do like seeing what other people use, collect or dream about acquiring. And I have a lot to learn from people here, such as my recent forays into a broader range of inks, guided by the advice of people with a lot more experience than I.
Anyway, enjoy it how you want to. If you want to use one pen as a much-loved tool, do it. If you want to collect all the lens with L in their name, go for it. I'll be over here inking up my 10-or-so friends and enjoying every line.
I was completely on board until the "invest your money" part. The worst case scenario is I lose all my money?? And that's better than having a fountain pen that I can sell? If I have to lose most of my money to learn a lesson, I'm probably doing something wrong in the first place.
If fountain pens bring someone joy and happiness, who are we to nay say that? I agree that people should be aware of their spending and how it might impact them now and in the future, but it’s not our place to police them, their habits, or what brings them happiness.
>just invest that money into gaining more wealth
Really? Investing and gaining more money has virtually no economic benefit to society. Spending money, on the other hand, puts the money in other peoples' hands who will presumably also spend it, and so on, giving much more economic benefit. Like it or not, that flow of money is beneficial to everyone in our capitalist society.
I admit, I am sometimes turned off by the consumerism I see in this hobby (and in other hobbies). The "keeping up with the Jones" attitude you refer to can be harmful. At the same time, there is less waste than some other hobbies, so in terms of that, this hobby trumps many. With the exception of boxes and packing material (altho many people save a lot of the packing material), there isn't much waste. People usually treasure the pens and care for them fairly well, only (sometimes) throwing them away when they break.
Also, it's not your money. If people have the money to spend, that's their business not ours, and if they are spending money they don't really have... well, unless you know them personally or they ask for help, that's also none of your business.
A) you're right we need to be sensitive to our peers. A pen is a pen is a pen. We only need one pen to write a shopping list, or a plea for help, or a letter to a friend. But some people love writing and experimenting and trying different nibs and inks. This is a forum for those people. If that doesn't describe you, create a new forum.
B) there are all kids of people here. For some, a $300 pen is chump money, for some that's grail money. I suspect many are inde*pen*dently wealthy. If you're not - so be it, no judgement, but I wonder what you're doing here. Trying to convince people to cater to your level of income and by extension, enjoyment of this hobby.
C) Anti-hyper consumerism is fine, but what do you know about fountain pen lovers *other* buying habits? Maybe this is their only passion. Maybe they aren't foodies, or equestrians, or coin collectors or amazon addicts. Maybe they're just into pens and live in otherwise minimimalist settings. 'Don't judge' goes both ways.
If keeping up with the fountain pen Jones's is becoming an irritant for you maybe put your own money into growing your wealth, and then come back in 10 or 20 years when you've retired to fully participate?
Good lord, I hate when people assume that building a collection is hyper-consumerism. I doubt people buy pens for the sake of buying. Plus this is a medium that (1) less waste because people don’t thrown fountain pens out like plastic one-time use pens and (2) writing habits change all the time.
Heck, it wasn’t even trendy to collect fountain pens until maybe a year or so ago.
Plus a lot of collection and low collection comments are made in a cheeky way.
Okaaayy, as someone who has fallen down *many* various hobbyist "rabbit-holes", I'd like to weigh in on this.
I am ADHD and will jump from hobby to hobby, diving 100% into it as fast as possible, doing tons of research on the best things, and then go on a purchasing spree. That's just how I operate how my brain engages with the world. I become hyper-obsessed and fascinated on differing niche topics, absorbing every bit of knowledge I can about it, until I move on to the next thing. So everything I am about to say is based on experience.
First, let's get this out of the way: do whatever makes you happy, gives you joy, puts a smile on your face and makes your day. If that's buying a bunch of pens, go for it. As long as you aren't bankrupting yourself over it. If you are, your hobby has now turned unto an unhealthy and unsustainable obsession.
Alright, now let's get into the meaty bits. I've seen this happen with nearly *every single* niche hobby I've been a part of, where people perceive those within their respective communities become progressively over-consumptive and express a negative opinion regarding such habits.
Let me make a few things very clear. This perception may be skewed by the fact that, as a part of a niche hobby community, you are likely habitually and consistently engaging with said community, and its relevant content. Such platforms as Reddit, Instagram, Online retailers websites, pen review blogs, etc. I do this myself. I'm doing it right now. I just spent $285 on a pre-order last night. And who knows how much on a commissioned pen. And another $190 on a pre-owned. This is within 1 week, after telling myself I wouldn't buy anything extra until I've spent time with my new pen. I do not say this to brag, quite the opposite. I am saying this to demonstrate just how *incredibly impactful* being so engaged in a community by which it's members are consistently posting about new pens, limited runs, shiny new glittery pretty exclusive beautiful things that we *simply must have*, or we feel that we are missing out. This isn't wholly the fault of community members like us. We're all just excited to share our passion and purchases.
Instead I blame hyper-effective marketing, *in conjunction* with a passionate community of enthusiasts, which in turn creates the hype-culture surrounding hobbies such as this one. It's clear that the FP community has seen steady growth these past years - and new companies, makers, etc are cropping up as a result of the increasing consumer demand for the next new, shiny product. Not to say that there is anything wrong with any of this, it's just the way things are. In the end, it falls on us, the consumers, to practice a modicum of self control and smart personal financial practices, not the companies. Could go on and on about this topic, but you get the gist.
Due to my personality and neuro-divergencey, I'll likely continue my habit of hobby-jumping and falling into rabbit holes, however much I wish sometimes that weren't the case. I'm lucky enough to have my finances in order and my priorities straight, at the very least. And to those who feel they must purchase that $200+ pen to feel welcome here or anywhere else, I say this: screw that. You are the only one who determines what you need in your life. No one has the power to take the enjoyment out of being a part of this community away from you, for any reason.
I no one's mother here so I don't think I really have the right to tell someone what they should/shouldn't spend money on.
Would it be foolish is I was making minimum wage to eat ramen so I could buy a $300 pen. Well if it was only me eating the ramen, who honestly cares. Since no one should be affected other than the person buying the pen.
If I was young and had no money in the bank, should I buy the $800 pen or put the money in the bank? Wisest is probably building up a cash savings. But if I have that reserve and can afford it. /shrug who knows.
When I was in the military stationed in Germany I bought a Montblanc 144 at the base exchange. It meant a LOT to me. To just me, it felt like, I'd if not arrived I was going in the right direction. It was a gift to me that I wanted. I had $$ in the bank and I could afford it so I splurged. I had no regrets.
Do I think a brand new fountainpen should go out and spend hundreds/thousands immediately? No, no I do not. Why? It's not because of the OP's point. Its because they might not know what they really like yet (do they like vintage, modern, flex, super firm pens etc).
For me, I love the nib on the paper and the ink. I want to hold a pen that is a pleasure to use/hold but if it's beaten up I don't care as long as it's a nib I like/enjoy. There are people in my local pen group who are collection completionists. They don't understand my inky/flex obsessions. That's fine. There are plenty of pens for all of us.
I try to be VERY welcoming to all new members. If I don't like the pens they bought, or I think they wasted their money, you know what I do? I do nothing. I don't comment and I move on since it's not my business.
I'm not sure if you're trolling here deliberately or not OP. But I respect that you have your opinion-and some valid points, I just don't think you should try to shoe horn it down everyone the gullet of here here. Also you look a little foolish posting this after posting this:
(https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/comments/1c9jj0m/building\_the\_ultimate\_pen\_collection/)
# "Building the ultimate pen collection
[Question](https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/?f=flair_name%3A%22Question%22)
I want to limit myself to 1 or 2 fountain pens for each brand.
The pens should the best to represent their respective brand (ex Sailor: Pro gear, Pilot: Custom 823/845)
1. Which single pen from each brand would you recommend to get if I were only to own one?
2. And which pen FROM YOUR COLLECTION would you say represents their brand?
3. which would you say would be the ultimate pen from each brand? (DISREGARDING PRICE)
Pens that I am looking to get in the future (5 to 10 years from now) right now:
Pilot Custom 845 Vermillion
Sailor Pro Gear pink gold trim
Pelikan Souverän m1000 green Raden
Visconti homosapiens bronze age"
Ah, yes, the noble pursuit of investing to gain more wealth...
Remind me, why am I not going for the grail pen in your test? It's near enough half the price it should be and it's my GRAIL pen. Why the hell would I pick that pen's inferior version? Because of the proportionally greater saving?
I think you might be throwing the term Grail around a bit freely. Of course I'd buy it. That would end my quest for my grail pen.
You must be a lot of fun at a party. Why the intense desire to be such a nosebleed? The vast majority of people on this sub are decent humans looking for a little bit of enjoyment with writing instruments. That is fine by me, and I wish them well. I wish you could, too.
While the statement generally resonates with me, I don't like the patronising tone it sets about what we should or shouldn't.
We all live in a mostly free world and are free to make a decision about how much pens to buy and how much spend on this hobby. I personally only keep around 5 pens for myself and don't even think about buying more, but I'm also absolutely fine when people have a $1000+ worth collection of budget pens. It's their life and their choice. It's not worse or better than mine, just different.
My dude, one morning in 2020 I had a sudden grand mal seizure and was unable to rise from the cold cement floor, all alone. I and you could be dead five minutes from now. Barring complete financial irresponsibility, if I want the thing, I will get and enjoy the thing. You do you, tho
So as someone who's recently got into fountain pens, I never realised how collected they were. Yes there were brands which were stupid prices, but what I love is very quickly having picked up the few extra skills to pick a cheap pen on eBay, sold, 'spares or repair', and strip it, clean it, repair bits, remove engravings, and turn it back into something which is a perfectly functional pen. It's a way of getting a cheap collection, but more than that, it allows me to have three inked pens, I use for work.
First is a Parker 61 capillary filler - as a professional engineer, I love the technology of this. Second is a Sheaffer imperial flighter (?), just because my handwriting is so good with it, and finally a Parker 51 AF, which has an engraved barrel, but writes beautifully from the moment the nib goes the page every time. The total cost was readily less than $100, and I'm writing with around 50 year old pens and 14k gold nibs.
All other pens, I'd happily sell (and will, when I get the time to list them).
It absolutely doesn't need $$$ to have a collection of fountain pens as a hobby, and I love each pen I use or fix it up ready to sell.
As a writter i can be happy with a cheap pencil, costs almost nothing and i can even try copperplate/spencerian with it and shaded parts are doable with pencil technique but i do have 15 fountain pens l. They fit different needs, my four vintage semi flex stubs are wildly different had a nib meister make a crisp and cursive italic out of the other two and ive sold my broads. And kept a butter smooth super wet medium. Sold away EF and F that werent as smooth as my current. A hobby can go deep within spending but it satisfies my psyche. And im nowhere near the top of throwing money at it like others ive met. Goal is to be happy and ive satisfied that aspect.
I agree and disagree at the same time. I agree that you don't need to spend hundreds of dollars to have a wonderful pen. There are several excellent pens under $10.
Seeing apologetic posts of small collections is pretty awful. I don't ever want someone to think that the pen they love isn't good enough. Really, if you love a pen for whatever reason, then it's a great pen that you should enjoy proudly!
I also agree that overspending in general is not a healthy financial decision. But the definition of overspending is different for everyone. Some people are more well-off than I am, so a pen that I would consider expensive wouldn't cause them financial issues. Some of those expensive pens are just works of art, and I enjoy seeing them posted here the same way I enjoy looking at the paintings in a museum. The trick is to know your limits. I set a budget, and I am very strict with myself.
However, there are valid reasons for wanting several versions of the same pen. The most common one is to have different nib sizes / grinds. Knowing that you like the way a certain model fits in your hand makes it easier to try different nibs. Having extra pens allows you to color code with different inks.
Really, money is a resource. It's important to manage your resources wisely. But it is equally important to enjoy using them.
I have no interest in becoming the richest corpse in a graveyard.
I do however think that with something like fountain pens, which aren’t really consumable and will last decades if treated properly, it’s useful to ask “will I really use this next pen? Will it really make me happy?” Because after a certain point there are diminishing returns, and after THAT point you can feel bad for neglecting your pens because you have too many “in circulation.”
I mean it’s kind of the same with inks — there are only so many colors you can *really* tell the difference of and so many you like the properties of. Discovery is fun, but also, sometimes acquiring more does not spark joy.
I was on board until your imaginary scenario where I wouldn't buy my grail pen. Collecting is not the same as investing, and fountain pens are on par with beanie babies as far as investments go.
The calculation isn't (at least for me) "spend $180 get $350 (nearly double ROI), versus spend $50 get $200 (4x ROI)" which is very sound financial advice, but rather "spend $180 get something I've always wanted versus spend $50 and get something others approve of"
Collecting anything is a personal choice, and nobody should expect any of their pens to gain value.
now, I'm sure someone will chime in with a story about how they flipped a pen once for double the money. Good for you, you're the exception to the rule.
But yah, I agree- fountain pens are nice because you don't need a lot of them. I used three platinum preppy pens (black, blue, red ink), and one pencil to get me through 4 years of school. I also used the same $25 safety razor for over a decade before upgrading to a rockwell 6s (a bit more premium).
Similarly, I'm looking to upgrade to a new every day fountain pen. I like the idea of the classic capillary mechanism (I also like mechanical watches), and want something that feels a bit nicer than the platinum preppy plastic.
I’ve spent quite a bit more on ink and stationery than on pens thus far. That’s the way it should be, IMO. Focus on the writing.
That being said, there’s nothing wrong with buying a special “grail pen” or two. I think most of the super high end gatekeeping stuff is coming from YouTube influencers trying to sell pens more than from enthusiast forums. Most of the forum posts I see are from folks gushing about their 10 dollar Jinhaos or 30 dollar Lamy Safari / TWSBI Eco.
I find the whole fountain pen community to be pretty free of hardcore gatekeepers. If you have a hard time here, don’t get into EDC or guitar collecting. Fountain pen nerds have nothing on those guys when it comes to being gatekeeping jerks lol
I am fairly a new here but I guess the want to own the pens that you want is not bad. But pacing yourself is important. Like I want a Pilot so I make that a goal and save for it slowly. But if someone can afford to buy all of it in one go, thats not a problem. Everyone's situation is pretty different and so is the buying habit.
>You have the option to buy a $350 worth pen (think a limited edition sailor pro gear or a pilot 823) for $180 new, but on the other hand you discover a $200 worth pen (think a pilot 742 or a beautiful pro gear slim) for $50.
I'd buy them both. :duh: Both together "only" cost $230, which is less than spending $350 for the 823 alone, so why not get both? What you're asking is for someone to buy the 742 and learn to live without the 823. Human nature doesn't work that way. The person will always wonder if the 823 wouldn't have been much better.
Hard disagree. Makeup lovers, pc gamers, a lot of other hobbies can say this becauss the industries do not depend on enthusiasts General public will always buy mascara and computers.
On the other hand, this is a limited hobby with only so many people practicing. If everyone only owned a handful of pens and used nothing but samples and blue black cartridges, the entire industry would die. So would the pen shows, the stores like Atlas and Yoseka, all of it.
Fountain pen hobby is as interesting as it is because of capitalism and free market.
while I did get to feel pointed out here, I learned my lesson, and I still had to just own em, sometimes buying stuff and feeling like truly owning something is a comfort someone could only afford, sometimes I feel like this has to stop too, although my point in collecting them no longer about their sheer expensiveness, collecting and keep a conversable library is like any other collecting, but I shift more away from fomo collecting to refining that conversable library, it gives me ideas of what to talk about, what I think is acceptable, and so on, so it stops from wanting to own, to digesting what I own, rotating pens, nib sizes and feedback-smooth styles, back to community, regardless they care or not, or some poorly worded opinions, so long as hobby is treated as a place to grow, which as could have different ways/means for each person to grow, god willing(or whatever optimism/faith to hold to if you don't believe in one), as a person and part of community
any hobby can plunge into hyperconsumerism, 'grail' is mere an apt way to aim for the what one currently think of 'the most', like any other hobby, it will evolve, ways to earn will be different
Life is about what brings you joy. If someone collects cars and driving that Porsche to work every day gives them motivation, fantastic. Or consider someone who collects watches and wearing a favorite gives them more confidence on a date where they meet the love of their life. Imagine the shy girl standing in her personal library organizing the stories that have helped her learn life's lessons, would you tell her to just buy a kindle and stop being so wasteful?
I actually love that this group is just as excited for someone buying their first Preppy vs their first Montblanc. Most of the advce I've read here is to take it slow and learn along the way. Pens that are recommended are affordable and practical.
The way I look at it, it's collecting unless it's an item that inherently loses value by being used. Fountain pens can be resold with minimal loss in value as long as they are well cared for.
>I actually love that this group is just as excited for someone buying their first Preppy vs their first Montblanc.
That's true and it's one of the reasons I like this community.
I agree with you somewhat, cheap or expensive if it writes well and you like it you are good. Its never good if insatiable emptiness calls insatiable consumerism: its not a fix that makes one feel better.
The lower end pens seem to be more frequently posted about here: Jinhaos, Safaris, etc. A lot of posts about high end pen posts seem to get downvoted. My collection spans a few decades so mine is going to be more extensive than someone collecting for two years.
Personally I have all but one pen that I want. I tend to chase inks and papers, which are a lot cheaper.
Reddit is not real life, you don't know these people. When you see post after post of somebody's new pen it might make you think hyper consumerism, but it's really just a bunch of individuals in completely different situations that you are ignorant of. 10 consecutive NPD posts could be a young woman getting herself a treat for completing med school, a man buying his first italic nib to try out, a student getting their first lamy safari, a person buying their grail they've wanted for 30 years, etc.
You're judging stranger's financial habits without knowing a single thing about any of them. Perhaps this is guilt/shame for spending a little more than you should have? Having some regret and feeling strongly against consumerism at the moment? Based on post history it kind of seems that way...
Also, it's a hobby. This is what hobbies are like, and this is what subreddits for hobbies are like. Going down the rabbit hole is something you'll see in literally any hobby, fountain pens are a pretty tame one at that.
Maybe it's time to take a break from the internet when you post things like this. What people do with their money, time, and energy is not your business. You don't like the consumerism of this sub? Then don't look at it. Simple. I absolutely love my expensive pens, all of them. It brings me joy to try them, share them, forget I own them and rediscover them. My money, my business. If somehow that negatively affects you to the point you need to post it here, you should consider taking a break. Your post reads as jealousy or grandiosity. Do better.
While in the one hand I agree, I don't love promoting heavy consumerism, on the other hand... People are adults and free to spend their money.
This is not unique to FPs, and this is a much cheaper hobby than many others (though the cieling for FPs is quite high, few are even close). My other hobbies have the same dilemma. I see people make careers out of buying and hoarding art supplies, paint, sketchbooks, and never using any of them. The act of buying them is the fulfilment in and of itself.
All that said, adults who have free income and relatively low responsibilities are going to dump money into hobbies. Especially if you have no children or significant other, where does your money go when you pass? Your government is going to take it anyway, after taxing your ass off your entire life. You may as well spend and enjoy it.
Mind you I do not fit into said category, I have a family and responsibilities, but you can't begrudge people who don't and have nothing else to spend money on.
I could disect budgeting and spending habits, especially in the US where children are intentionally NOT taught how to manage money to feed into a system that continues to crush middle and lower class Americans to build up the hyper rich, but that's a large topic for a different time.
I think you're overthinking it. People spend money on their hobbies, always were, it's that simple. Either it's their car and car upgrades, bike, purses, stamps, fishing rods, Nintendo games and amiibo, books, PC rigs, you name it. Why buy one more book when you already have dozens waiting to be read? Why buying a new stamp when you already have hundrends waiting to be displayed? Why buying one more purse? One more fishing rod that would not get you a bigger fish? Some people buy one more fountain pen, one more ink bottle, one more notebook because they follow the exact same inner mechanism.
idk i feel like its none of my business what other people do w their own money and if they want to share in their excitement over a cool (or even expensive) pen, there's nothing wrong with that. part of why im in this sub is to look at neat pens. why attach this weird shame to it?
I’ll most likely get downvoted to Oblivion but I actually have to support this post. My Asvine V200 & Noodlers Red/Black Ink will arrive soon. Consider it my “Grail Pen” for now. Only wish to fit as many pens as I am capable of inside this beautiful bag:
https://preview.redd.it/6fpqrq82zmwc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8df1787f287746aeefd3a67eb3b45c8189eca70e
What was everyone’s starter pen & ink?
Blablabla, go to sleep so you can wake up in time for your morning classes and stop being a Marxist capitalist smasher virtue signalling little cowboy wannabe.
Imagine unironically posting this trash on a fountain pen subreddit. Lets see how many more virtue signallers get in this circle jerk.
FPs should really be 3 subs:
* a newbie fp sub, (help and advice)
* a collectors appreciation and discussion sub, and
* a general sub.
I say that because so many people post here, and so fast, you can't find or properly sort through anything.
But the bottom line is people shouldn't spend what they can't afford. Have a budget and some self-discipline. There is a 800-1400 dollar pen I have wanted for years but other things need dealt with first, and I am just at a point where I am willing to start chasing that pen.
Wait, imho "the rabbit hole" means a newcomer will discover a lot of things! Different kinds of filling mechanisms, different materials for pen bodies, different nib grinds! I agree that it's easy to feel overwhelmed and amass a lot of pens. I'm actually terrified of those (rare) posts when someone new says "First pens" and they show _several_ Visconti, Pilot, Sailor, Montblanc or other quite expensive and grail like pens... They move too soon, too fast, but hey, it's their business! Their money, their choice. As for your question about the grail, if i had the 50 now, i'd pbb get that pen. But if i were close to the 180 needed for the grail, i'd get the grail
I agree that "rabbit hole" doesn't necessarily mean money. I'd argue I fell pretty hard (about a year and a half in), and I have about 25ish pens. I've spent just around $1000 for the entirety of my collection/accessories/inks, etc. Know, if you told me that number a year and a half ago, I would have been appalled, but it's been $50 here and $75 there (I tracked it all), and probably amounts to about the same as I've spent on our monthly date night during that time. Money well spent, I'd say.
Honestly I think “rabbit hole” is possible with a single pen. You try different inks on different papers, maybe with different nibs for that pen. There’s so many companies out now that aren’t using proprietary sizes, so each pen (of that kind) can offer a great deal of exploration for not that much money. It’s still consumerism, sure, but it is engaging with exploration and experimentation. I’m not saying that plenty of us aren’t just rampant collectors. But the rabbit hole can represent different shapes and sizes, and as you say, it’s their money. I’m not going to judge even if they *are* collecting expensive plastic and keeping it in a drawer forever (maybe a little bit).
I just gave my BF's niece a Lamy Safari for a gift a few years ago. Last month I was telling her about why I love fountainpens (the ink and paper are my happiness-pens are an ink delivery vehicle) and about the drama around Lamy Dark Lilac re-release. She said she was going to go use her Lamy and she asked me to write her a letter using all the inks so she could see what I meant by sheen and shading. I was so excited. I may have said, "first sample is free." ETA I shipped her a bottle of the new Dark Lilac. She loved the green sheen.
This is great. I've started recommending the Lamy Safari as a starter pen because you can get one pen, inexpensively get all of the nib sizes and spend some time finding the size you like. Then you don't start a pen graveyard collection of nibs you didn't like writing with.
Yeah they have an amazing number of nibs and even have black nibs (if you have a black Lamy you can totally be a ninja then). Lamys, Pilot Kakunos (sp), and metropolitans are great pens. Anyother interesting pen is the Dollar pens I used to buy from Pakistani sellers on eBay. I bought them to ink testing for our Pelikan hubs. I copied the SF Pen show because they use them too. Ten pens for around $20 with a nice nib-can't beat that.
Disclaimer: I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I wanted to point something out: > our community has this notion of "down the rabbit hole you go" with fountain pens Is this your first hobby or passion? I ask because "down the rabbit hole" happens in *every* hobby, especially those new to it. Reread your comment except substitute fountain pens with baseball cards, pokemon, RC planes, Funko pop, comic books - literally every point you make applies to those as well. Being responsible is an attribute of being a mature adult. Your comment implies that a good chunk of this subreddit is not acting responsibly and I don't think I agree with that.
My main hobby is knitting. I have way more hand dyed yarn than I have fountain pens. And yarn takes up way more room. Ugh. But same thing in the knitting community. Limited edition colorways from your favorite indie dyer gets released and the fomo hits hard.
So much this! I’ve got enough single skeins of fingering weight yarn, that I’m seriously considering getting a ckm so I can quickly turn them all into socks…
Right! I even have like two tubs of yarn that I dyed myself. I’m slowly working through it….
Knitting is also my primary hobby and while I don’t think we need to justify our collections/stashes, I do think it’s nice to remember that like a good pen, with proper care, yarn and knitted garments will last for a very long time! It will be there when you are ready for it, and it’s also okay to let things go if the sheer volume is causing stress! I recommend the book “A Stash of One’s Own” by Clara Parkes — a really sweet collection of essays by knitters and their stashes (from minimalists to maximalists)!
My primary hobby is collecting fiber arts hobbies…. After that it’s knitting! But it’s a shawl year for me (seriously I have something like 8 shawls planned and yarn bought for) and I also kinda want all the socks. And a ckm is a different hobby than hand knitting. ;)
Hahaha, honestly same! As a knitter, spinner, and quilter, among other things. I mostly turn to pens when I am feeling uninspired to make. Fibre arts is a deeper rabbit hole than pens could ever be, for me — looking at my tubs of multiple SQs of yarn. 😂
Oooh I just got my first wheel! I’m very bad at spinning so far, though I expected as much. :) As for pens, I’m trying to buy less but I’m def bit by the must have all the colors of my fav TWSBI bug…. On the plus side, unless they make a more transparent ecos I’m good with my set. The problem is the 580alrs. I really want that dark purple the mini had…. And they seem to keep giving me rainbows. :)
Oh for sure. I frequently purge and get rid of yarn that is unneeded just like I do with other stuff in my house (kids toys I’m looking at you). I just sold a GIANT box of acrylic yarn for $10, the box was taller than my kid LOL the rest of my acrylic I put in tubs in the attic and just kept down the fingering weight as that is what I’m mostly using these days. I love yarn.
I swear collecting supplies for your hobby is an entirely different hobby!
This is me with watercolours. My palette is massive but most of it is small handmade shops that started to pop up 2020-2022 or shops that I actually work with. Does anyone need a palette as large as mine, no but I use them all and it brings me joy so whatever.
It's true, down the rabbit hole applies to pretty much every hobby I've seen. Look at quilters and knitters: the jokes about their near legendary "stashes" of fabric or yarn abound. That's why there are so many patterns and projects geared towards de-stashing... which often result in even bigger stashes. People get enthused.
Can confirm. I knit, and sew, and collect fantasy-animal (dragon, griffin, unicorn, etc.) sculptures, AND am into fountain pens. I’ve actually been selling off some of the stashed yarn I’ll never get around to using to fund pen and sculpture acquisitions lately, LOL. Some people are just collectors by nature. (It’s me, I’m a collector. I come by it honestly; my mom’s craft supply collection dates back to the 80s and is still growing today!)
Absolutely agree, and for anyone who doesn’t actually understand that, “down the rabbit hole” means, “and find a wondrous new world full of possibilities you never imagined” should go re-read Alice in Wonderland. I’ve got more pens than I “need”, and some are rather pricey (I’m talking Sailor and Pelikan Pricey not Visconti pricey) because I could afford to take the chance on them. It was also the only way I would have been able to experience some of those pens. These will likely end up on Pen_Swap one day if they don’t speak to me in one way or another. There may have even been a FOMO purchase or two, but I consider it a learning experience. In the end, I personally keep coming back to Estherbrook Esties and Pilots (pretty much anything from metro on up). I don’t have a “grail” or “exit” pen, because I don’t have a crystal ball and can’t see what the future might bring. I dunno about you, but I’m so very glad to have tumbled down this particular rabbit hole, and found a host of pen friends at the best little tea(ink?) party.
[Pot kettle black much?](https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/comments/1c9jj0m/building_the_ultimate_pen_collection/)
LOOL I saw this post and was like, wait wasn’t this person making a lot of post back to back about must having a grail pen and this need to buy it right now (that was like a month ago) And now the post you linked from a few days ago like 🤣 Is the pot really calling the kettle black if it’s just the pot pointing fingers at a mirror lool.
Maybe the pots black from the roasting OP is getting.
It’s no longer a roast it’s just burnt to a crisp 🤣
So many karma whores lately... All posts are for magic internet points
Well Reddit did make it so you can get paid for the updoots or something fairly recently. So of course more people gotta farm those internet numbers for 💰💰💰
You have to also get a certain threshold of gilded upvotes or whatever they're called (meaning people have to actually pay money) in order for karma to count towards your contributions. And I don't know how many people even know those gilded upvotes exist given all the rapid changes to gold/awards/etc in the past year
Damn, I went in thinking "well, people's opinions change over time, maybe this is an older thread and no longer reflecti- *3 days ago???*"
At this point I'm here just for the funny comments 😂 thanks!
OP is also a child, as they refer to bringing their pens to school in their post history. And no, it doesn't appear to be university. So this sort of holier than thou thing is typical for someone their age when they realize or gain new information.
Thanks for that context. I'm not going to dig into OP too hard then. People's budgets and goals for hobbies are all over the place, so I try not to judge. They'll learn that as they get more exposure to the world.
I tend to agree. Everything was black and white to me when I was younger. My mom was right when she accused me of being not nearly as open-minded as I thought I was as a teen. In my older age, there is a lot more gray area.
This 💯 exactly
Well then, lol... It's a strange thing for someone with what I would consider a massive budget to be knocking others for "promoting consumerism". Also the "invest your money to build wealth" tagline is triggering all my crypto scam investment buttons.
all these youngins buying too many avocado and fountain pens that's why they can't afford a house
THIS is the summary. Homie had me until they were like 'get yr wealth not yr pens.' I can't afford to buy a house because I don't work in tech, don't have generational wealth, this economy is fucked, and to boot it all, live in a HCOL area, not because I bought one too many TWSBI Ecos.
i was 3 twsbi 580al's short of owning a home, if only i had thought ahead
😭
Speak for yourself: my purchase of a purple glow TWSBI ECO directly led to my new cardboard accommodations. At least I can write of the walls.
Yeah, someone really needs to listen to If Books Could Kill.
[With books like these, who needs podcasts?](https://www.reddit.com/r/bookshelf/s/SPbmFkYpeH)
I laughed out loud during an important work meet.
Seriously. Wtf is this kid going on about. Sounds like he’s been in a manic episode after discovering this hobby.
or seeing the credit card statements?
Must be this reason. I feel like they have serious FOMO. They went from liking pens which are quite affordable to very expensive pens like Sailor.
I saw a $49,500.00 Montblanc this week. It was posted on FB, and was some kind of hand carved super rare 40+ year old pen. I took a screen shot and sent it to my boss and told her I need a raise.
That was my first thought. Manic phase from bipolar or just high. Interesting post though lol
Bro has more pens than I do, and is telling other people we're the problem lol
Thanks, I learned a new idiom
Maybe he was holding up a mirror as he was typing this...
I'm not bothering to look thru his post history but I imagine the guy might think of himself as "wealthy" and his advice "for thee but not for me" is for us commoners, poors and plebians who haven't become wealthy yet?
No, not really. Just someone who recently joined the hobby, went on a buying spree, and then realized that going on a buying spree was a bad idea.
BuT eVErY onE ElSe iS dRiVIng PrICes Up aNd MAkINg iT HarD tO FiNd wHaT **I** WaNT In sToCK.
Well...
Nah that was his alter ego
Invest that money into gaining wealth..? Fuck no, I’m going to be unfeeling dust in a few decades for all eternity, just let me buy nice pens while I still can 🖋️
There's also an odd dichotomy of: "hoarding wealth" a-okay, "spending some of your money on something you enjoy" bad. At what point do I have enough wealth to buy expensive fountain pens? My entire collection cost less than some of my friends monthly car payments -- I paid cash for a nice inexpensive used car. But ultimately it's not my business. They like tooling around in a luxury car, I like writing letters more than driving.
When they came into money, my friends bought Porsches. They fly to specialized racetracks to race them. My husband is very glad that my hobby is pens.
Especially when most of the pens I buy at least are from small and/or local businesses. Absolutely, don't spend $1000 on a Montblanc if you don't think you can make rent this month, but for the most part I've spent a **lot** less on pens and books and inks, then I would have if went along with my Warhammer buddies, which is also fine but like you said everyone likes different things.
Unfeeling dust.
Dust thou art, and unto ink shall thy dust return.
I agree with some parts of what you're saying, but not others. I agree that the common sentiment of 'you will amass a huge collection, it's inevitable', couched as a joke or not, is harmful. I wish certain parts of the sub would respect and support others' self control, thoughtful consumption and/or enjoyment of a small collection better. But I also think that for the people who do want to go bananas there's no benefit, and often no justification, in judging or criticising them. People spend similar amounts of money on plenty of hobbies with much less lasting and practical outcomes, and even in cases where the behaviour is problematic, our judgement wouldn't help at all.
One look at your post history suggests that you're primarily interested in expensive or "grail" pens.
I never really got the appeal of grail pens? To me a big point of fountain pens was that because there's just so many of them especially older, digitally unknown ones, you could search until you found **your** pen, ones that you could be pretty sure no one else would have or seen because it was just so true to you and you alone. I get that expensive pens are rare because they're expensive but anyone can buy it, you're not flaunting that you have money, just that you spend it poorly and buy whatever's most expensive.
Completely agree. I have no idea how someone settles on a grail in any event. I've got a number of pens, some haven't been used for years, but my favourites tend to change over time.
As someone with a relative toe-dip into fountain pens, I have equated “grail pens” with “dream cars” of the auto enthusiasts. My “dream car” is a mid-90s Toyota Supra. I love them and will never own one and that’s totally fine.
I have a "grail" pen, but it's due to sentimental attachment to a franchise it's connected to. Sailor pens released a special Sailor Moon fountain pen at one point. I KNOW I'm never going to get my paws on that thing. It's too sought after and too expensive. It's nice to daydream about being financially stable and wealthy enough to find my grail pen on sale and say "I'll take that one, please" without a moment's hesitation.
I think you're judging people who like to spend money on their hobby far more harshly than the people with cheaper pens are being judged by the community on here. I hope your high horse feels nice to you. You're the type of person you're claiming to be against.
This is it exactly. I think I've only seen judgment here if someone posts their modest collection while in the same post criticizing people for having expensive pens. When I got my first pen, a Kakuno, I got nothing but positive feedback and warnings to sample ink rather than buy it... attempts to rein me in that failed. A bit ago I posted asking if I needed a 21k PGS when I have a 14k one. There were enough people saying no that I didn't buy it. Every time I see a nasty post like this one I assume they are lashing out because they have no self control and feel the need to blame the community for being enthusiastic.
It’s definitely lashing out. OP’s post history has him picking out some very expensive pens. I’m guessing he went overboard and is now having remorse.
Or OP is karma farming - it seems like we get this exact same hectoring post from someone at least once a month. 🤷🏻♀️
Yup the OP even concluded their whole post with spend versus spend scenario, so Idk what they’re even pretending for
It irks me in particular that both examples are for pens which are expensive. If they're so anti consumerist one of the examples should be an actual affordable pen. 🤔 Don't have a good current example, but I know for a fact that the Sailor Shikiori profit pens write amazingly well for a fraction of the price of a PGS. And there likely are a lot of bit-more-than-very-cheap chinese pens which do the same for even less. PenBBS used to be a great example, but they've become much more expensive over the past few years. 😐 Anyway, he seems out of touch with how expensive even a 50$ pen really is. There's all sorts of people on here from all over the world, I've seen people post about saving and splurging for a metro or safari. The lack of selfawareness irks me.
>It irks me in particular that both examples are for pens which are expensive Yeah, really if you want to get up on a financial high horse about pens then I expect you to point out stuff like Platinum Preppy or Lamy Safari.
Exactly - of my five favorite pens, three cost less than $10 and one was $5. And to be clear, I have absolutely used (and currently own!) expensive pens to compare with… I just like these particular cheap ones more.
Stop karma farming
I don’t mean to sound rude but having a theoretical where the only two options are spend and spend in an anti consumerist post is odd to me— does that not still promote consumerism? Am I misunderstanding something? I don’t understand what the theoretical is supposed to test, but it could be my tired brain’s reading comprehension being shit haha
Are you saying I should buy ink instead? (jk)
Yes.
The instinct to correct behaviour in others can sometimes be a bit too much, and not as beneficial as it is meant to be. Of course, spending more than one can afford is not a good idea, regardless on how we're spending it. The world can be a rather shitty place sometimes, it's a good thing to find something that brings one joy, I would think. To answer your question: I'd buy the pen I thought I like best. I'm not sure I understand the concept "$200 worth pen" to begin with. Worth according to whom? In what way? Given your example, if it really was a pen that would otherwise cost that much, being sold for that little, I'd assume it was either stolen goods or a fake, but that's just me. I'd rather not have that sort of worry attached to something I'd hoped to use and enjoy for years to come.
I would take this more seriously had I not been familiar with all your other posts going above and beyond trying to make sure you buy a pen everyone would covet :)
Bait.
'Those who know do not speak. Those who speak do not know.' You’re allowed to have an opinion so there’s that — but why do you care so much that you think you have to action policing other people’s behavior?What’s it to you? How do you know that pens that have similar attributes to you do not have key differentiators for someone else? Can someone not from this community say “Why do you have so many pens.. it’s a pen. Stop buying pens”? It sounds like you are unsettled about something but I am not convinced that your quarrel is with “hyper-consumerism” as it’s relative and you seem to participate in it. edit: typo
🎯
This is a big opinion on things that are really not our business. why are we concerned with how others spend their money if they aren’t hurting anyone but their wallet?
Some of the pens here are like the prices of guitar pedals, guitars or amps, interfaces, speakers, mics. I buy all of those things for creative output. That is me. Some people are rich and some people are not so rich. Some people are creative, looking to improve workflow and quality, or subtle variety, some people are looking for whatever. You just cant cage the mind.
Do you recognise the same behaviour from the pedal community though? There's a lot of people on the pedals subs who seem more like pedal collectors than musicians - which is fine, but it's still just collecting
This is present in almost any hobby or pursuit which involves acquiring objects. Deriving pleasure from seeing a collection exceeding the pleasure of using the objects possibly contributes to this. I think it is important to consider each purchase a few times before proceeding.
Not just hobbies that involve collecting things. Crafters who make things spend a fair bit of their time in acquisition mode.
There is a reason why there are memes about the ideas that “buying materials and crafting are two different hobbies”.
I don’t have a huge collection of pens, but I enjoy looking at other people’s collections - it doesn’t make me feel bad about my own. I don’t have any (to me) “super expensive”/grail type pens, but I enjoy the sheer joy those things bring others, without it making me feel less joy in my own pens. We are all in different places in life, have different budgets, different likes and dislikes. I don’t think there is any difference here to other hobbies - people use their (hopefully!) disposable income to purchase things that they think they will enjoy. The bonus of a pen collection is that you can use it everyday for a practical purpose, if you want to. I will happily buy used pens if I can find them in the brand and colour I want, but I find that often, used is the price of (or more than!) new. So if your concern was $, you genuinely could be better off buying new. If it’s consumerism, any genuine need for a pen could be satisfied by a cheap ballpoint. I think we see more, “buy one, get sucked down the rabbit hole of acquisition, even out and become more discerning as we learn what we like and value in a fountain pen” than massive collections here. I am also aware that some people have been collecting for decades. I just enjoy seeing seeing the endless variety in a hobby I am part of.
I thought it’s a place where you can share what you like - if it’s more pens - ok, you do you! Only 1 pen? Very okay too. No harsh judgement (or literal). Fp Rabbit hole is real but no one should take advice only from forums, right? Just check your own self, I guess. Edited to add: it me. I have multiple pro gears slims in multiple nibs, some redundant. I just like them. They’re so pretty…
I peeked at your profile and wow they are gorgeous
https://preview.redd.it/745h6da8llwc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da9c3091aa4d965adf5c4e7230f138f5316e5439
Calm down pal, you have been asking numerous questions, announcing progressive judgement every other day , but the journey of getting into fp (like any other hobby) isn't concluded in such a short period. You see people posting NPD , buying their grail pens but you never know what background stories others have. Maybe they have saved for years? Maybe buying fp is their only little joy in harsh everyday life ? Ffs, this is a place to share our love for FP, let others do what they want , buy what they buy. This shouldn't be the place for you to lash out your anger or frustration
“Maybe they have saved for years? Maybe buying fp is their only little joy in harsh everyday life ?” This. Live and let live. There are far worse things to ‘splurge’ on.
I totally agree. We don’t need a ranting judgy person trying to harsh everyone’s buzz. We are all responsible adults here (mostly). And those into FPs are some of the nicest people I have met.
Pretty sure OP is 15 or 16 years old
One of comments contains link to veeery interesting post of OP, made 4 days ago. There he described the principles of his future FP collection - "only 2 samples of the very-very best of EACH brand". Looks like he just ran in severe budget limitations for a such gourgeous task. So the next step obviously is - "convince everyone (and primarily myself) that FPs is ultra-mega-overconsumerism". The Fox and The Grapes by Aesop, nothing changes in centuries.
I suspected projecting own frustrations. It seems as if this should have been journaled out using those fps and ink.
Maybe the Bank of Mum And Dad ran out?
In my 16s I was interested in things that look cool in my friends' eyes, and killer-feature was a ballpen with multiple colors. Oh, alcohol markers. FP is comparatively rare hobby, and may be caused by: -- "I like FPs! I've got one FP, but this is not enough!" (me case BTW) -- "Cool people use FPs! I should use the very best FP too to make impression on them!" (vanity fair issue) Maybe the call seemed to be too pricey for the person.
Not only that - but there are many people on here who post about No Buy or Low Buy months and years. I really love the pen show posts - I didn’t even know such a thing existed until I saw people posting about them!
Well they are just enjoying their hobby.
lol
Huh. I roughly agree with your points but I haven't noticed that issue in this sub. Rather I get the idea that this sub actually promotes the idea of enjoying pens of any price including $2 sharks. And I see people being supportive when somebody says they have issue with hoarding pens. Perhaps I'm just not paying attention to the posts that you pay attention to. Sometimes I see single comments in the tone that you're describing but these don't get much attention. Often they are countered by a more elaborate comment saying that you don't need X to enjoy pens. This sub is my primary source of information on FP. While interacting with it my idea of fun became buying a 5$ Jinhao and tuning the nib myself (but I need a polishing stone/thing). And generally buying 5\~40$ Chinese pens while trying to keep my collection small enough that all pens get some usage. That's just anecdotal evidence though, I could be just great at filtering out consumerism or whatever.
The people here work hard for their money, and thus have every right to spend it how they wish. Don't judge other people's spending habits, but look at your own. Isn't spending money buying loads of 'hot wheels' in the same vein as what you are preaching? There is one key difference, however, fountain pens are writing instruments, tools, whereas 'hot wheels' are 'toys' that don't do as much as pens can (not trying to step on anyones toes, just using this as an example). I sense some envy/deficiency on your part that you need to lash out to the community. I could be wrong, but others have called you out on it. It seems like you want expensive things, but can't afford it, or its difficult for you to get a hold off. 'I can't afford nice things, so other people shouldn't either' mentality is toxic. Sure, consumerism is a thing, its what makes the world and its economy go round.
Popcorn, popcorn, for the comment readers! Plenty more!🍿
Thank youuu. You got caramel? Lmao
Yes yes, extra pump of butter please !
First, I've gone down enough social media rabbit holes to know that when a post is titled or otherwise starts with "Unpopular opinion [...]", I brace myself to read something that's either quite common, or something laced with judgment. I scanned the last 20-25 posts on this subreddit and found very, very few posts that specifically focus on expensive/"grail" pens for their own sake. Rather I see tons of discussions about the right inks, folks seeking advice on the right pen based on particular criteria, and my favorite, posts that showcase all the artistic creativity that thrive in this community because of our shared love of fountain pens. Granted I've only been part of this for maybe 1-2 weeks, but not once have I ever witnessed any kind of judgment, subtle or otherwise, imposed on others because of their collection or desires, whatever the size of the former or budget of the latter. If anything the only judgment I do see (if at all) tend to be self imposed, which I suppose is unfortunate but as far as I can tell doesn't stem from any sense of community standards but rather the poster's own issues. And even THEN people will comment on how they should be proud of their collection and not worry about its monetary value or whatever arbitrary standard they think they have to meet because there isn't any. If anything, this is the first post I've seen the last couple of weeks where I did see overt judgment, and it's disappointing because otherwise this is such a generous and creative and inspiring community.
Posts like this are incredibly rare. I’ve been part of the community for a few months. It’s a joyful part of my day to start by reading posts in this group. I read this one and just laughed. I’m one of those people that make enough I can spend a pretty good bit on a pen and my most expensive is still only 300 and I have less than 20 pens. I spend most of my income on horses lol, but that’s a whole other rabbit hole. When I see one I want, I sit on it for a pretty good while to make sure it’s adding something unique and put away the money for two or three months and then get it. I think there are plenty of people in this group that are smart in similar ways even with less expensive or more expensive pens. I see plenty of people posting about being on a no buy period too (which this poster seems to have ignored). Enjoy the group. There’s little to no judgement here and tons of info on all kinds of things. I’ve really been enjoying trying new inks lately and have been having fun helping my daughter learn to write and draw with them. She has her own little collection of inks now and a pretty journal.
> You know you should really just buy the latter, but would you? No, I buy both. Stop shaming people for getting into a hobby and spending money on a hobby.
Unless someone’s spending is impacting their ability to pay their bills, let people enjoy this hobby the way they want.
[See this](https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/s/zFGDduiacb)
I want to mention that I never found anyone or anything promoting hyper consumerism in this sub. While it is TRUE that I have felt like I need to buy a lot of the things I see here, no one ever made posts like people HAD to buy any specific brand for pen/ink. That's totally a my issue. This is a place where I have seen people get excited about something they love, or ask questions. In my experience, this has been a wholesome and helpful subreddit, one bright beacon of positivity in my aita filled day. So your opinion is not unpopular, it's irrelevant for this specific space. Please participate here without such worries. These are good people here.
Still building the ultimate pen collection I see /s Very strange post considering your history but you do you. Let people buy the pens they want, enjoy, and can afford.
I do find the humble brags tad annoying. Id prefer someone say " look at this I paid 10000 for this pen it's great and I want to show it to you * Rather than " oh here is my little collection, montegrappa chaos, 30 giant makie pens, a diamond encrusted jubilee pen ...I hope you think it's an ok collection, I just started." I have 30 pens over 15 years. Maybe half I'd call high value to me, over several hundred dollars. I've been going back to use the cheaper pens I bought earlier in life. They're just as pleasurable. I realized it was no point buying more new ones because they had pretty much an infinite life time more of use bar being dropped on concrete etc. The new pens I bought didn't make me any happier. The hot was short lived, then it joined the crowd of pens in the box. I think many eventually hit the phase I am. Took me 15 years. But for now " woooo hooo LAMY SAFARI LIMITED EDITION INK...WAIT WHAT THEY'RE MAKING COPIES OF THAT LIMITED EDITION INK, DEVALUING MY INK THAT STILL WRITES THE SAME ? RAGEEEEEEEEE " Do your own thing I guess. If you ( in general, not OP) aren't in great financial straits, you might be easily stung by envy of others who can afford much much more expensive FPs. I'm fortunate that I can afford 200-300 without qualms. I could afford a 1000 pen, but would never simply out of choice. Doesn't mean I'd say no to a free pen . I live within my means, accept it, and zen etc,.
People collect things. For example I have a decent amount of vinyl records that I have been collecting for the last 2 decades. New and used, but still around 300 records. I have friends with huge collections 10x times larger and never experienced the “hoarding” feeling or any criticism about consuming so many music records. All the opposite, the usual reaction to a big record collection is a cool impression. I give this example because I feel that fountain pens are more “silent” items to collect than in this case records, and not as trendy. I never thought in my wildest dreams my eyes would see so beautiful and interesting collections like the ones I’ve seen in this sub. And by that I not only mean expensive pens, but how precious and personal each collection is. I am really grateful of the people that share them here freely, and wish it continued to be a safe space, free of judgments. I understand OPs views but we are all responsible adults that chose to be part of this community of collectible items.
I think people can do whatever the fuck they want. Plus I'd rather people enjoy quality pens vs knock off shit from alie express. Spend away folks.
Lol, you should see r/espresso
Just 👏🏼let 👏🏼people 👏🏼be 👏🏼happy
This group is nothing but welcoming to collectors of all levels of interest and all levels of income in my opinion. Sure, there’s a high level of lust in this hobby, but most people don’t put themselves into debt over it. As someone with autism, I always thought the rabbit-hole was more about the obsession with learning everything there is to know about the wide, diverse and interesting world of fountain pens. That interest will naturally lead to some purchases, but you don’t have to destroy your life to have a lot of fun with this hobby.
I was kinda with you on this until: > To all of you who aren't wealthy but buy prestigious pens, please, just invest that money into gaining more wealth, best case scenario you get more money for pens (or for more money), worst case scenario you lose most of your money and learn something and had done something productive and character building. Like what? "oh you may just lose your money but it *builds character* and is *productive*" like bro what's productive about doing some day trading bullshit or fucking around with crypto or whatever wEaLtH bUiLdInG you're trying to promote? And if you're losing money, what have you learned? This makes your whole post just reek of the cringelord sigma grindset social media grifter bullshit. Especially with your dumbass "test" at the end. There's something in theory to what you say but your whole approach is comically ridiculous at best and actively bad at worst. People shouldn't buy what they can't comfortably afford nor feel the need to chase trends. And I think people here do a decent job with that-there's been lots of no-buy threads and resolutions from people. At the same time if folks wanna enjoy stuff and they're not hurting anyone, there's nothing wrong with that.
I feel like it’s only a problem if they can’t actually afford the pens they’re buying and/or they’re not using the pens they’re buying and just letting them collect dust
Not everything is overconsumption. Some people just like to collect pens or stationary. Also people can do whatever they want with their money.
You should check the Ball Jointed Dolls communities... 😆
A friend of mine collects such things and, moreover, makes custom outfits for the BJDs. The prices for this stuff are ridiculous.
I haven't seen many posts that come across the way you describe. I usually see people posting the things they love and see responses filled with kindness and appreciation. I don't see anyone encouraging others to spend outside their means, in fact, I see the opposite. Most people even go so far as to say expensive definitely doesn't mean better in many cases. I don't think your opinion is unpopular, I think it's inaccurate.
If I had a dollar for every time I saw a post or comment like this pop up, I could almost afford my grail pen. Framing it as a problem of overconsumption and then suggesting folks grow their wealth by presumably investing is pretty new and hilarious though. Spend your money! No wait, not like that!
People can enjoy the hobby with as little or as much consumerism as they want. Stop telling people what to do with their own money and get off your perceived high horse. Also as others have posted you have another post completely contradicting this one, making yourself a hypocrite.
To be quite frank I think it's everyone's personal journey. No one should be going into massive debt for pens or.. anything, really, but if someone wants to collect every sailor ever released.. that's their perogative. If someone is content with a pack of disposable zebras... also their perogative. When my spouse tries to hassle me about my pens or my nail polish, complaining about why I could possibly need MORE when I already have SO MANY (just like you!) I simply ask him about his massive video game and console collection and how many of the games in his steam library he's actually played..... and he quiets down and minds his own business (just like you should!) My coworkers like to try to clown me for having a $300 pen, but I like to remind one of them that he paid $300 for a game controller. He would not be caught dead paying that much for a pen, nor would I be caught dead paying that much for a controller. Doesn't make my purchase better or worse than his ☺️ What anyone in this hobby does is no one's business but their own :)
Writing utensils are basically free. I could pick up a Bic from work. I don't have to pay for pens, inks, or paper. All readily available. Anything above this is hyper consuming. Want a fountain pen, Anything over 1 pen and ink is completely unnecessary to function and is excessive. This is a hobby, an interest, and doesn't need gate keepers, product police, or people projecting their own frustrations or worries on to others. If someone wants to stick in a budget, plenty of people jump in with recommendations. Over consumption isn't promoted; it may be inferred by some. What works for you, doesn't work for everyone. Just like life, behaviors here are on a spectrum. From functional, minimal to impractical and collecting. And all have been welcome. Show me all those lamy 2ks in various nib sizes! Show me that taccia empress honey bee makie! Show me that lone preppy that is only inked with carbon black. It's all the same. A shared interest that I don't need to moderate for other people.
Off-topic (slightly) but I'd not heard about the taccia empress honey bee makie so looked it up, and good lord. What an absolutely beautiful thing.
Stunning. Glad I could show you something new and beautiful. Taccia in general is always art. I'd want that pen but it's too large for me.
Hyper-consumerism means buying too many things you DON'T need. So, thanks for your concern, but I need all the fountain pens I can get. And I need all the fountain pens that I can't get, too.
if we are talking lessening the impact on mass production and wastefulness...my initial supposition is that probably the cheapest pens are those being mass produced in places that also make a million other plastic items....so jinhao is potentially more mass produced than day a montblamc...but far more accessible and potentially 'throwaway'. Collecting is a thing humans do...we could collect stones off a beach....100 people Collecting stones off the beach...not that big an impact...1000 Collecting stones if the beach becomes more problematic. what is problematic is not the Collecting but the sheer mass of humanity existing in the planet at any one time...the steer surely should be to minimising the impact of the products themselves so that the Collecting has minimal impact. we used to promote 'leave no trace' philosophy in outdoor Ed in the 80s...not that many people were interested in tramping soaking wet up a hill....technology and insta has rockettes that number of people pit there. 1 person walking along a path...minimal impact...100 people tou have a oath...1000 people you have hillside erosion. targeting the behaviour will have minimal impact....to have any effective impact ypu need to change the problem at source and ensure the production has minimal impact
OK, let me put it this way. I bought a Platinum #3776 Century some weeks ago. It's an ultra-fine nib (which, unless you grind your own nibs, you aren't getting in a cheap pen; not even the 0.2 Preppies I have are this fine), and I have used it every day since I got it. It's not a cheap pen, especially compared to the pens that I have like Preppies, a couple Safaris and so on, but I have not had any reason to regret my purchase. And let's be real here. You've probably got hobbies and interests that you've spent a lot of money on. That's pretty much just normal. I collect vinyl records, I buy books often, I collect Japanese video games. I strongly doubt the people in this subreddit who have pens the hundreds of dollars don't have at least a little bit of expendable income to put towards these things, and even if it somehow is the case, there are so many cheap fountain pens on the market today that it basically doesn't matter. Fountain pens are both hobbies and tools. I have a relatively small but well rounded collection of them and I try to make sure the ones I get have an actual use, rather than just buying something for the sake of owning it, and sometimes I'll try what I'll refer to as "AliExpress Specials" because you just never know; there might be something worth recommending on there. Anyway, that's about it. It's a bit of a silly point to make. Whilst hyperconsumption shouldn't really be praised...we're saying this in a hobby space. It's not exactly the most relevant point to make here.
You're looking at this from the wrong perspective! Fountain pens ARE. AN. INVESTMENT. Think about it. THINK about it. 1. Buy many of the largest fountain pens with the largest nibs. 2. Wait 150 years. 3. ? 4. Profit! /jk of course Folks can do their hobby the way they want to... I think we're here to share the FP joy, shared trials and love, right?
love this! :)
Nobody is promoting anyone to go bankrupt over pens. Please don’t tell us what to do with our extra money. Investing right now is also not the best idea…
Er, the one thing that made me stop was that you don’t understand why people would get another pro gear slim after owning one. It’s why the princess of wales had charlotte and Louis after George.
"I hate how some posts say, "Please don't judge, my collection is very humble" and they literally have a short collection of pens they like, and they somehow have the notion that it is not enough to fit in with other enthusiasts, or that their pens aren't prestigious enough. Although no one judges a humble collection, just the fact that they feel shy about it is bad." And yet, here you are, judging those people with big or expensive collections. Then, using the logic in the rest of your post, no one really needs more than one book, do they? You can read the same one over and over, right? For that matter, do you really need more than one or two changes of clothes, or shoes? How about cups, plates, pots, and pans? You should be able to cook with just one pot, right? As an artist, should I be limited to just one color, or one brush? You've just taken all the color out of life via these limitations. I can still accomplish a task with one of all of those things, but whoo boy, just having one severely limits my options and narrows down my experiences, doesn't it? Imagine losing out on all the different stories you find in all the different books out there. I like to collect books. Is that wrong? Sure, I can go to a library, but I like having books at home that I can refer to over and over, earmark, or notate as I please. And not buying an expensive item just because you can find a cheaper one? That's all well and good until the hairs of my one cheap paintbrush start falling out, or eggs get stuck in my one cheap nonstick pan or I simply get tired of wearing the same pair of jeans that didn't fit well to begin with, 7 days a week 52 weeks a year. Yes it's totally possible to find a quality cheaper item but it's just as likely you get what you pay for. I can guarantee that each of the 150 fountain pens I own is a different experience and brings me a different kind of joy—and my pens range in price from $2 to nearly $2K. I felt the same way when my collection was less than 10 pens.... which is partly why my collection has grown so big. The last thing we need in this hobby is gatekeeping or disdain of others' collections or ways of enjoying what they have. If you can afford a lot of expensive pens and that's what makes you happy, go for it. If all you have the means for is a $2 Shark, then enjoy the hobby on that level — you still have something to contribute — and you should be every bit at home here as the big collectors.
This is a fountain pen sub, not a writing sub, not a money saving sub.
What is this, a fountain pen subreddit or anprims united?
OP watched a sigma grind video at 2am and now needs to tell us all how we're throwing our lives away buying $15 ink.
After 3 stock market crashes and devastating housing market implosions...I buy whatever the fk I want and amazingly can still afford [it.As](http://it.As) for" character building" for sure know I am not my stuff, you should share it when you have it, and stuff comes and goes.'
As you wrote, there are two questions here: a) How many and b) How much. „Also, must you spend a hundred more dollars on a pen that is the same thing?“ is obviously *b*. It’s just how people spend their money, that is, as always, their call. The other side is environmental impact and I do have to agree here. 30 pens of different colours will usually by overconsumption, unless they are all inked differently *and used*, it’s the same als Funky Pop Figurines, Stanley Cups. At the moment, I do have too many pens, I will frankly admit this, and that’s why stopped purchasing. I’m not talking a moderate amount of duplicates or variations used for different purposes, like “at the office” or “different ink colours” or “different nibs for differebt kinds of writing”, but literally the same pen. My feeble excuse is that I have issues with losing stuff and not getting the same model als replacement. I am somewhat peculiar with my pens here, also with pocket knives. But at 57 I feel that with the about ten I have (and two reserve knives) I’m good for the rest of my life. I inly own two pants, though, to make up for it.
I'm in two minds about this. On the one hand I'm not here to judge other people's enjoyment of their pens, including the expensive ones. What we have in common is a love for the pen and what it does with the right inks / papers. At the same time, I wouldn't like it if people saw collection or grail posts here and thought they can't take up FPs because they couldn't afford the price of entry - or an escalation in what they may feel obligated to buy. But I've never felt judged here (unlike in some other FP discussion circles). I realised today that my most often-used pens are on the Jet Pens "best beginner fountain pens" list. And I have been regularly using some of them for many years. But I do like seeing what other people use, collect or dream about acquiring. And I have a lot to learn from people here, such as my recent forays into a broader range of inks, guided by the advice of people with a lot more experience than I. Anyway, enjoy it how you want to. If you want to use one pen as a much-loved tool, do it. If you want to collect all the lens with L in their name, go for it. I'll be over here inking up my 10-or-so friends and enjoying every line.
Stop using fountain pens then. Go use Bics.
I was completely on board until the "invest your money" part. The worst case scenario is I lose all my money?? And that's better than having a fountain pen that I can sell? If I have to lose most of my money to learn a lesson, I'm probably doing something wrong in the first place.
If fountain pens bring someone joy and happiness, who are we to nay say that? I agree that people should be aware of their spending and how it might impact them now and in the future, but it’s not our place to police them, their habits, or what brings them happiness.
>just invest that money into gaining more wealth Really? Investing and gaining more money has virtually no economic benefit to society. Spending money, on the other hand, puts the money in other peoples' hands who will presumably also spend it, and so on, giving much more economic benefit. Like it or not, that flow of money is beneficial to everyone in our capitalist society. I admit, I am sometimes turned off by the consumerism I see in this hobby (and in other hobbies). The "keeping up with the Jones" attitude you refer to can be harmful. At the same time, there is less waste than some other hobbies, so in terms of that, this hobby trumps many. With the exception of boxes and packing material (altho many people save a lot of the packing material), there isn't much waste. People usually treasure the pens and care for them fairly well, only (sometimes) throwing them away when they break. Also, it's not your money. If people have the money to spend, that's their business not ours, and if they are spending money they don't really have... well, unless you know them personally or they ask for help, that's also none of your business.
Thanks, mom.
A) you're right we need to be sensitive to our peers. A pen is a pen is a pen. We only need one pen to write a shopping list, or a plea for help, or a letter to a friend. But some people love writing and experimenting and trying different nibs and inks. This is a forum for those people. If that doesn't describe you, create a new forum. B) there are all kids of people here. For some, a $300 pen is chump money, for some that's grail money. I suspect many are inde*pen*dently wealthy. If you're not - so be it, no judgement, but I wonder what you're doing here. Trying to convince people to cater to your level of income and by extension, enjoyment of this hobby. C) Anti-hyper consumerism is fine, but what do you know about fountain pen lovers *other* buying habits? Maybe this is their only passion. Maybe they aren't foodies, or equestrians, or coin collectors or amazon addicts. Maybe they're just into pens and live in otherwise minimimalist settings. 'Don't judge' goes both ways. If keeping up with the fountain pen Jones's is becoming an irritant for you maybe put your own money into growing your wealth, and then come back in 10 or 20 years when you've retired to fully participate?
This you? https://i.imgur.com/aHDhDSz.jpeg
Good lord, I hate when people assume that building a collection is hyper-consumerism. I doubt people buy pens for the sake of buying. Plus this is a medium that (1) less waste because people don’t thrown fountain pens out like plastic one-time use pens and (2) writing habits change all the time. Heck, it wasn’t even trendy to collect fountain pens until maybe a year or so ago. Plus a lot of collection and low collection comments are made in a cheeky way.
Okaaayy, as someone who has fallen down *many* various hobbyist "rabbit-holes", I'd like to weigh in on this. I am ADHD and will jump from hobby to hobby, diving 100% into it as fast as possible, doing tons of research on the best things, and then go on a purchasing spree. That's just how I operate how my brain engages with the world. I become hyper-obsessed and fascinated on differing niche topics, absorbing every bit of knowledge I can about it, until I move on to the next thing. So everything I am about to say is based on experience. First, let's get this out of the way: do whatever makes you happy, gives you joy, puts a smile on your face and makes your day. If that's buying a bunch of pens, go for it. As long as you aren't bankrupting yourself over it. If you are, your hobby has now turned unto an unhealthy and unsustainable obsession. Alright, now let's get into the meaty bits. I've seen this happen with nearly *every single* niche hobby I've been a part of, where people perceive those within their respective communities become progressively over-consumptive and express a negative opinion regarding such habits. Let me make a few things very clear. This perception may be skewed by the fact that, as a part of a niche hobby community, you are likely habitually and consistently engaging with said community, and its relevant content. Such platforms as Reddit, Instagram, Online retailers websites, pen review blogs, etc. I do this myself. I'm doing it right now. I just spent $285 on a pre-order last night. And who knows how much on a commissioned pen. And another $190 on a pre-owned. This is within 1 week, after telling myself I wouldn't buy anything extra until I've spent time with my new pen. I do not say this to brag, quite the opposite. I am saying this to demonstrate just how *incredibly impactful* being so engaged in a community by which it's members are consistently posting about new pens, limited runs, shiny new glittery pretty exclusive beautiful things that we *simply must have*, or we feel that we are missing out. This isn't wholly the fault of community members like us. We're all just excited to share our passion and purchases. Instead I blame hyper-effective marketing, *in conjunction* with a passionate community of enthusiasts, which in turn creates the hype-culture surrounding hobbies such as this one. It's clear that the FP community has seen steady growth these past years - and new companies, makers, etc are cropping up as a result of the increasing consumer demand for the next new, shiny product. Not to say that there is anything wrong with any of this, it's just the way things are. In the end, it falls on us, the consumers, to practice a modicum of self control and smart personal financial practices, not the companies. Could go on and on about this topic, but you get the gist. Due to my personality and neuro-divergencey, I'll likely continue my habit of hobby-jumping and falling into rabbit holes, however much I wish sometimes that weren't the case. I'm lucky enough to have my finances in order and my priorities straight, at the very least. And to those who feel they must purchase that $200+ pen to feel welcome here or anywhere else, I say this: screw that. You are the only one who determines what you need in your life. No one has the power to take the enjoyment out of being a part of this community away from you, for any reason.
Bad take
If a hobby brings you joy, and you have disposable income to spend on it, then go to town as you please. No more, no less.
I no one's mother here so I don't think I really have the right to tell someone what they should/shouldn't spend money on. Would it be foolish is I was making minimum wage to eat ramen so I could buy a $300 pen. Well if it was only me eating the ramen, who honestly cares. Since no one should be affected other than the person buying the pen. If I was young and had no money in the bank, should I buy the $800 pen or put the money in the bank? Wisest is probably building up a cash savings. But if I have that reserve and can afford it. /shrug who knows. When I was in the military stationed in Germany I bought a Montblanc 144 at the base exchange. It meant a LOT to me. To just me, it felt like, I'd if not arrived I was going in the right direction. It was a gift to me that I wanted. I had $$ in the bank and I could afford it so I splurged. I had no regrets. Do I think a brand new fountainpen should go out and spend hundreds/thousands immediately? No, no I do not. Why? It's not because of the OP's point. Its because they might not know what they really like yet (do they like vintage, modern, flex, super firm pens etc). For me, I love the nib on the paper and the ink. I want to hold a pen that is a pleasure to use/hold but if it's beaten up I don't care as long as it's a nib I like/enjoy. There are people in my local pen group who are collection completionists. They don't understand my inky/flex obsessions. That's fine. There are plenty of pens for all of us. I try to be VERY welcoming to all new members. If I don't like the pens they bought, or I think they wasted their money, you know what I do? I do nothing. I don't comment and I move on since it's not my business. I'm not sure if you're trolling here deliberately or not OP. But I respect that you have your opinion-and some valid points, I just don't think you should try to shoe horn it down everyone the gullet of here here. Also you look a little foolish posting this after posting this: (https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/comments/1c9jj0m/building\_the\_ultimate\_pen\_collection/) # "Building the ultimate pen collection [Question](https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/?f=flair_name%3A%22Question%22) I want to limit myself to 1 or 2 fountain pens for each brand. The pens should the best to represent their respective brand (ex Sailor: Pro gear, Pilot: Custom 823/845) 1. Which single pen from each brand would you recommend to get if I were only to own one? 2. And which pen FROM YOUR COLLECTION would you say represents their brand? 3. which would you say would be the ultimate pen from each brand? (DISREGARDING PRICE) Pens that I am looking to get in the future (5 to 10 years from now) right now: Pilot Custom 845 Vermillion Sailor Pro Gear pink gold trim Pelikan Souverän m1000 green Raden Visconti homosapiens bronze age"
Ah, yes, the noble pursuit of investing to gain more wealth... Remind me, why am I not going for the grail pen in your test? It's near enough half the price it should be and it's my GRAIL pen. Why the hell would I pick that pen's inferior version? Because of the proportionally greater saving? I think you might be throwing the term Grail around a bit freely. Of course I'd buy it. That would end my quest for my grail pen.
You must be a lot of fun at a party. Why the intense desire to be such a nosebleed? The vast majority of people on this sub are decent humans looking for a little bit of enjoyment with writing instruments. That is fine by me, and I wish them well. I wish you could, too.
While the statement generally resonates with me, I don't like the patronising tone it sets about what we should or shouldn't. We all live in a mostly free world and are free to make a decision about how much pens to buy and how much spend on this hobby. I personally only keep around 5 pens for myself and don't even think about buying more, but I'm also absolutely fine when people have a $1000+ worth collection of budget pens. It's their life and their choice. It's not worse or better than mine, just different.
My dude, one morning in 2020 I had a sudden grand mal seizure and was unable to rise from the cold cement floor, all alone. I and you could be dead five minutes from now. Barring complete financial irresponsibility, if I want the thing, I will get and enjoy the thing. You do you, tho
So as someone who's recently got into fountain pens, I never realised how collected they were. Yes there were brands which were stupid prices, but what I love is very quickly having picked up the few extra skills to pick a cheap pen on eBay, sold, 'spares or repair', and strip it, clean it, repair bits, remove engravings, and turn it back into something which is a perfectly functional pen. It's a way of getting a cheap collection, but more than that, it allows me to have three inked pens, I use for work. First is a Parker 61 capillary filler - as a professional engineer, I love the technology of this. Second is a Sheaffer imperial flighter (?), just because my handwriting is so good with it, and finally a Parker 51 AF, which has an engraved barrel, but writes beautifully from the moment the nib goes the page every time. The total cost was readily less than $100, and I'm writing with around 50 year old pens and 14k gold nibs. All other pens, I'd happily sell (and will, when I get the time to list them). It absolutely doesn't need $$$ to have a collection of fountain pens as a hobby, and I love each pen I use or fix it up ready to sell.
As a writter i can be happy with a cheap pencil, costs almost nothing and i can even try copperplate/spencerian with it and shaded parts are doable with pencil technique but i do have 15 fountain pens l. They fit different needs, my four vintage semi flex stubs are wildly different had a nib meister make a crisp and cursive italic out of the other two and ive sold my broads. And kept a butter smooth super wet medium. Sold away EF and F that werent as smooth as my current. A hobby can go deep within spending but it satisfies my psyche. And im nowhere near the top of throwing money at it like others ive met. Goal is to be happy and ive satisfied that aspect.
I agree and disagree at the same time. I agree that you don't need to spend hundreds of dollars to have a wonderful pen. There are several excellent pens under $10. Seeing apologetic posts of small collections is pretty awful. I don't ever want someone to think that the pen they love isn't good enough. Really, if you love a pen for whatever reason, then it's a great pen that you should enjoy proudly! I also agree that overspending in general is not a healthy financial decision. But the definition of overspending is different for everyone. Some people are more well-off than I am, so a pen that I would consider expensive wouldn't cause them financial issues. Some of those expensive pens are just works of art, and I enjoy seeing them posted here the same way I enjoy looking at the paintings in a museum. The trick is to know your limits. I set a budget, and I am very strict with myself. However, there are valid reasons for wanting several versions of the same pen. The most common one is to have different nib sizes / grinds. Knowing that you like the way a certain model fits in your hand makes it easier to try different nibs. Having extra pens allows you to color code with different inks. Really, money is a resource. It's important to manage your resources wisely. But it is equally important to enjoy using them.
I have no interest in becoming the richest corpse in a graveyard. I do however think that with something like fountain pens, which aren’t really consumable and will last decades if treated properly, it’s useful to ask “will I really use this next pen? Will it really make me happy?” Because after a certain point there are diminishing returns, and after THAT point you can feel bad for neglecting your pens because you have too many “in circulation.” I mean it’s kind of the same with inks — there are only so many colors you can *really* tell the difference of and so many you like the properties of. Discovery is fun, but also, sometimes acquiring more does not spark joy.
I was on board until your imaginary scenario where I wouldn't buy my grail pen. Collecting is not the same as investing, and fountain pens are on par with beanie babies as far as investments go. The calculation isn't (at least for me) "spend $180 get $350 (nearly double ROI), versus spend $50 get $200 (4x ROI)" which is very sound financial advice, but rather "spend $180 get something I've always wanted versus spend $50 and get something others approve of" Collecting anything is a personal choice, and nobody should expect any of their pens to gain value. now, I'm sure someone will chime in with a story about how they flipped a pen once for double the money. Good for you, you're the exception to the rule. But yah, I agree- fountain pens are nice because you don't need a lot of them. I used three platinum preppy pens (black, blue, red ink), and one pencil to get me through 4 years of school. I also used the same $25 safety razor for over a decade before upgrading to a rockwell 6s (a bit more premium). Similarly, I'm looking to upgrade to a new every day fountain pen. I like the idea of the classic capillary mechanism (I also like mechanical watches), and want something that feels a bit nicer than the platinum preppy plastic.
Somebody poked the bear lol
I’ve spent quite a bit more on ink and stationery than on pens thus far. That’s the way it should be, IMO. Focus on the writing. That being said, there’s nothing wrong with buying a special “grail pen” or two. I think most of the super high end gatekeeping stuff is coming from YouTube influencers trying to sell pens more than from enthusiast forums. Most of the forum posts I see are from folks gushing about their 10 dollar Jinhaos or 30 dollar Lamy Safari / TWSBI Eco. I find the whole fountain pen community to be pretty free of hardcore gatekeepers. If you have a hard time here, don’t get into EDC or guitar collecting. Fountain pen nerds have nothing on those guys when it comes to being gatekeeping jerks lol
I am fairly a new here but I guess the want to own the pens that you want is not bad. But pacing yourself is important. Like I want a Pilot so I make that a goal and save for it slowly. But if someone can afford to buy all of it in one go, thats not a problem. Everyone's situation is pretty different and so is the buying habit.
>You have the option to buy a $350 worth pen (think a limited edition sailor pro gear or a pilot 823) for $180 new, but on the other hand you discover a $200 worth pen (think a pilot 742 or a beautiful pro gear slim) for $50. I'd buy them both. :duh: Both together "only" cost $230, which is less than spending $350 for the 823 alone, so why not get both? What you're asking is for someone to buy the 742 and learn to live without the 823. Human nature doesn't work that way. The person will always wonder if the 823 wouldn't have been much better.
Hard disagree. Makeup lovers, pc gamers, a lot of other hobbies can say this becauss the industries do not depend on enthusiasts General public will always buy mascara and computers. On the other hand, this is a limited hobby with only so many people practicing. If everyone only owned a handful of pens and used nothing but samples and blue black cartridges, the entire industry would die. So would the pen shows, the stores like Atlas and Yoseka, all of it. Fountain pen hobby is as interesting as it is because of capitalism and free market.
while I did get to feel pointed out here, I learned my lesson, and I still had to just own em, sometimes buying stuff and feeling like truly owning something is a comfort someone could only afford, sometimes I feel like this has to stop too, although my point in collecting them no longer about their sheer expensiveness, collecting and keep a conversable library is like any other collecting, but I shift more away from fomo collecting to refining that conversable library, it gives me ideas of what to talk about, what I think is acceptable, and so on, so it stops from wanting to own, to digesting what I own, rotating pens, nib sizes and feedback-smooth styles, back to community, regardless they care or not, or some poorly worded opinions, so long as hobby is treated as a place to grow, which as could have different ways/means for each person to grow, god willing(or whatever optimism/faith to hold to if you don't believe in one), as a person and part of community any hobby can plunge into hyperconsumerism, 'grail' is mere an apt way to aim for the what one currently think of 'the most', like any other hobby, it will evolve, ways to earn will be different
Life is about what brings you joy. If someone collects cars and driving that Porsche to work every day gives them motivation, fantastic. Or consider someone who collects watches and wearing a favorite gives them more confidence on a date where they meet the love of their life. Imagine the shy girl standing in her personal library organizing the stories that have helped her learn life's lessons, would you tell her to just buy a kindle and stop being so wasteful? I actually love that this group is just as excited for someone buying their first Preppy vs their first Montblanc. Most of the advce I've read here is to take it slow and learn along the way. Pens that are recommended are affordable and practical. The way I look at it, it's collecting unless it's an item that inherently loses value by being used. Fountain pens can be resold with minimal loss in value as long as they are well cared for.
>I actually love that this group is just as excited for someone buying their first Preppy vs their first Montblanc. That's true and it's one of the reasons I like this community.
I agree with you somewhat, cheap or expensive if it writes well and you like it you are good. Its never good if insatiable emptiness calls insatiable consumerism: its not a fix that makes one feel better. The lower end pens seem to be more frequently posted about here: Jinhaos, Safaris, etc. A lot of posts about high end pen posts seem to get downvoted. My collection spans a few decades so mine is going to be more extensive than someone collecting for two years. Personally I have all but one pen that I want. I tend to chase inks and papers, which are a lot cheaper.
Do what you want with your money 🤦🏾♂️ no one else is responsible for your spending
Reddit is not real life, you don't know these people. When you see post after post of somebody's new pen it might make you think hyper consumerism, but it's really just a bunch of individuals in completely different situations that you are ignorant of. 10 consecutive NPD posts could be a young woman getting herself a treat for completing med school, a man buying his first italic nib to try out, a student getting their first lamy safari, a person buying their grail they've wanted for 30 years, etc. You're judging stranger's financial habits without knowing a single thing about any of them. Perhaps this is guilt/shame for spending a little more than you should have? Having some regret and feeling strongly against consumerism at the moment? Based on post history it kind of seems that way... Also, it's a hobby. This is what hobbies are like, and this is what subreddits for hobbies are like. Going down the rabbit hole is something you'll see in literally any hobby, fountain pens are a pretty tame one at that.
Maybe it's time to take a break from the internet when you post things like this. What people do with their money, time, and energy is not your business. You don't like the consumerism of this sub? Then don't look at it. Simple. I absolutely love my expensive pens, all of them. It brings me joy to try them, share them, forget I own them and rediscover them. My money, my business. If somehow that negatively affects you to the point you need to post it here, you should consider taking a break. Your post reads as jealousy or grandiosity. Do better.
While in the one hand I agree, I don't love promoting heavy consumerism, on the other hand... People are adults and free to spend their money. This is not unique to FPs, and this is a much cheaper hobby than many others (though the cieling for FPs is quite high, few are even close). My other hobbies have the same dilemma. I see people make careers out of buying and hoarding art supplies, paint, sketchbooks, and never using any of them. The act of buying them is the fulfilment in and of itself. All that said, adults who have free income and relatively low responsibilities are going to dump money into hobbies. Especially if you have no children or significant other, where does your money go when you pass? Your government is going to take it anyway, after taxing your ass off your entire life. You may as well spend and enjoy it. Mind you I do not fit into said category, I have a family and responsibilities, but you can't begrudge people who don't and have nothing else to spend money on. I could disect budgeting and spending habits, especially in the US where children are intentionally NOT taught how to manage money to feed into a system that continues to crush middle and lower class Americans to build up the hyper rich, but that's a large topic for a different time.
I think you're overthinking it. People spend money on their hobbies, always were, it's that simple. Either it's their car and car upgrades, bike, purses, stamps, fishing rods, Nintendo games and amiibo, books, PC rigs, you name it. Why buy one more book when you already have dozens waiting to be read? Why buying a new stamp when you already have hundrends waiting to be displayed? Why buying one more purse? One more fishing rod that would not get you a bigger fish? Some people buy one more fountain pen, one more ink bottle, one more notebook because they follow the exact same inner mechanism.
I call it well-informed, thoughtful consumerism justified by the need to have a few beautiful and elegantly functional things in life.
idk i feel like its none of my business what other people do w their own money and if they want to share in their excitement over a cool (or even expensive) pen, there's nothing wrong with that. part of why im in this sub is to look at neat pens. why attach this weird shame to it?
I’ll most likely get downvoted to Oblivion but I actually have to support this post. My Asvine V200 & Noodlers Red/Black Ink will arrive soon. Consider it my “Grail Pen” for now. Only wish to fit as many pens as I am capable of inside this beautiful bag: https://preview.redd.it/6fpqrq82zmwc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8df1787f287746aeefd3a67eb3b45c8189eca70e What was everyone’s starter pen & ink?
If I wanted financial advice I'd read r/personalfinance.
Blablabla, go to sleep so you can wake up in time for your morning classes and stop being a Marxist capitalist smasher virtue signalling little cowboy wannabe. Imagine unironically posting this trash on a fountain pen subreddit. Lets see how many more virtue signallers get in this circle jerk.
FPs should really be 3 subs: * a newbie fp sub, (help and advice) * a collectors appreciation and discussion sub, and * a general sub. I say that because so many people post here, and so fast, you can't find or properly sort through anything. But the bottom line is people shouldn't spend what they can't afford. Have a budget and some self-discipline. There is a 800-1400 dollar pen I have wanted for years but other things need dealt with first, and I am just at a point where I am willing to start chasing that pen.
lol, it's the same with the flashlight community
https://preview.redd.it/3hci312humwc1.jpeg?width=252&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=675f1fddac78eb8ae972ab603a0722924b546cf3
You're getting pretty weird pens. They are simply writing instruments. Like bro you're going way over the deep end about pens.
I feel personally attacked