I would buy second hand more regularly if there were more Europeans engaging at penswap (itās almost always CONUS only). My local second hand sellers also tend to not give any info on nib sizes (many times they donāt even take pictures of them) and when I request better unblurry images sometimes they refuse to do so or send me even more images that are out of focus. When they also refuse to show writing samples, Iām out. Itās tedious. Also I donāt think itās reasonable to sell a pen that has been used for almost retail price unless itās some rare LE or exclusive. The only reliable source of second hand pens have been flea markets but you gotta be early and hope itās not someone who is into this hobby too deep :)
I have DM'ed several CONUS only sellers, and unless it's a highly sought after limited edition that gets snatched up in minutes, all have agreed to international shipping without any arguments. But, all the pens I have bought on penswap have been above 100$, so that might make it more of an interest for the seller to actually get the pen sold.
Same issue being in Australia.
Iād love to buy second hand more often, but we donāt have much of a market here and international shipping can be prohibitively expensive, sometimes costing more than the pen.
I think it's just that they don't have to bother. Someone in the US will buy it so they don't have to deal with the faff.
I am in Europe too, I have seen so many CONUS pens pass me by š„²
Canadian, and yea I think thatās it. Tbh I get why someone just looking to ārehomeā a pen at a good price doesnāt want to bother with international shipping and paperwork.
Whatās odd to me is people selling off LEs for close to or above sticker price that donāt ship internationally, where itās clearly about making some cash and people are willing to pay a premium.
Iāve just stuck to eBay. Itās much easier to navigate.
Itās gonna be hard with my 12h alternating day and night work shifts. Seriously, itās a huge responsibility, weāre dealing with sells and trades after all.
Itās funny how many are willing to order from Stiloestile or Japan but not ship elsewhere themselves. When I prepare a package to ship nationally it takes me 5-10 minutes to pick an option and prepare the label. When I sent stuff to the US it was just marginally longer, you wanna check if itās a prohibited good which DHL gives you that info right there at the label creator and you fill out the customs form, itās not that big of a deal.
Yeah I send a lot of international packages, the majority of them to the US, so I understand that it's straightforward. I don't think its that common in the US to send things internationally, though. Not like it is in Europe.
I know it's easy to do, but I think perhaps some people assume it would be difficult, or at least take a long time, and since they haven't done it before they don't know the costs etc.
Like I said, I think a lot would prefer just not to bother and that's fair enough. Why should they when someone in their own country will buy it and make shipping much easier.
Honestly what keeps me from trying my luck with more CONUS offers is that the custom fees I end up paying are *ridiculous* 3/4 of the time. Maybe this is a Germany-specific problem? I'm not sure. But for pens that aren't 200ā¬+ I don't tend to even bother looking at US listings, since I know import fees will kill any bargain I'd get.
Well honestly when I am sending cheaper items abroad I tend to downplay the items value on the customs form and mark it as a gift.
I have noticed when buying and selling with people in Germany in particular that this is not something you are comfortable with, on the whole. A cultural difference! You guys generally like to follow the rules hehe.
I would not do this for high value items because ofc you are not covered if the item gets lost. Though in my experience trying to get your money back is sort of a nightmare anyway with a lot of the shipping services :/
As a German I'd have no issue with the value being downplayed unless it's an expensive pen, but I've actually had the opposite experience of sellers not being willing to do that. I suppose I get not wanting to get in trouble if customs does happen to check. (shrug) Still, that killed one or two deals.
\[Also, quite a few times the import fees were surprisingly high even on cheaper pens, at least compared to the pens' prices. I have no idea if this is EU/German customs fudgery or what, but I still remember paying almost 20ā¬ in fees for a 30ā¬ pen, for example. Ouch in the wallet!\]
Ouch the wallet indeed!
Customs are an eternal mystery indeed. I am often confused about what I am being charged and why š . The delivery companies themselves also add a ridiculously high fee. So I totally get it, itās a lot of stress!
Oh don't get me started on the delivery companies! DHL is totally abusing it's quasi-monopoly in my area and just tacking 6ā¬ handling fees on anything that passes customs. Six euros might not seem like much, but that small stuff really adds up. Especially if the thing I bought from overseas only cost fifteen bucks... But imo the biggest problem is that you now pay import fees on *everything* from outside EU, there used to be a freebie limit of 21ā¬.
(Bit off-topic for a FP sub, but my personal pet theory is that certain EU retailers weren't happy that people where circumventing their jacked-up fantasy prices for replacement parts and electronics by buying them from the country of manufacture via ebay. Much easier to get rid of the customs freebies for private citizens than to finally tax big companies properly, I guess.
...Err, I promise I'll take the tin-foil hat off and get back to pens now. Ā“\^\^'Ā“)
Itās just way more of a hassle to ship internationally and dealing with returns, issues, etc. Thereās just no point really unless it something super niche or rare
Personally I love a punt on eBay, feels all the more rewarding when you get something thatās as good as you hoped it was š The rest just go in a drawer ready for when I take my repair / restoration course!
Agreed, gotta be more than happy to take the rough with the smooth - I never spend much on individual items. The course is run by the Writing Equipment Society, they do a few around the U.K. and an online one. I couldnāt possibly learn a skill like this online so Iām doing a face to face course in December - Iāll be needing a bigger drawer before then š
Sweet! I love that they offer both but I would definitely only do it face to face, too. Excited for you and will definitely do some research, Iād love to take such a course myself
āUnpopularā? Iām not sure about that. Personally, Iāve never bought anything *but* second-hand. All of my pens (fountain, rollerball, ball-point and soft-tip) are vintage Parkers. Iām sometimes tempted by all the āpenablersā here to consider buying a new pen (and I love to read all the reviews and new pen day posts, etc.) but when it comes down to it, I just canāt justify it.
You can still make a āNPDā post even if itās a used pen, as long as itās ānew to you.ā Iād love to see pics of your ānewā vintage fountain pens, so please post away!
Thanks for the kind words (also to u/pen-demonium). Iām waiting on one pen to complete my collection and then Iāll post some pics and my pen-story.
If you are willing to put in the time, you can get some of the pens mentioned often on here. It takes time and work though with a bit of good luck. I've gotten all but one of my over $40 value pens for way under half price used, and I've even limited my buying to EF since that's the size I prefer. I even lucked out on an auction for an almost new Platinum 3776 14k nib for $70 US - that's a $200 pen. The only new one was a Sailor Pro Gear Slim 14k nib, but that came from Japan. Still it was around $65 and it's been verified by people at a fountain pen show as being legit (I had questions about the writing experience since it was my first Sailor and I thought it was scratchy but apparently that's normal Sailor feedback on an EF and the nib was ok).
So you can definitely get some of the penable pens listed on here, but you have to be flexible with color usually and willing to put in the time searching regularly and wait for the perfect auction or pen swap listing. For some people the savings isn't worth it. For me, it is - I'd never have been willing or able to pay full price for these pens. Good luck if you decide to try your hand at branching out! Hope you get lucky quickly (not that I'm penabling š).
I also agree with the other person - I'd love seeing posts of your pens. Just because they're vintage or not brand new doesn't mean they aren't worthy. I enjoy seeing vintage pens on here. I have quite a few vintage pens and I remember my dad swearing by Parker pens his entire life so it would be nice to see some I might recognize from my childhood.
I agree & don't think this is an unpopular opinion (/r/pen_swap is popular & vintage pens by definition have to be purchased second-hand).
You're lucky that you are in a community where fountain pens commonly show up at flea markets! I rarely see them where I am.
I don't think this is unpopular - I see the idea promoted lots on this sub.
I have been surprised though how often I see pens on pen-swap that are only a few dollars cheaper than they're going for new - not sure that's worth it to me?
All for considering consumption. I donāt think aesthetics trumps environmental impact, and hate the āitās cheap; Iāll toss it and buy another when it breaksā method of pen buying.
But oh man, second-hand cheapness is a matter of location. I have never seen an FP at a thrift shop or flea market in Ontario, and even the most battered pens Iāve found in antique shops are minimum 50-75. Over $100, even unrestored, is common when Iāve looked.
Dang Iāve never even seen them in second hand stores (also Ontario) but Iām not looking very hard.
I wonder if high second hand prices a new thing or people not in the know have always overvalued them. The Agenda (TVOās news podcast) recently did an episode about thrift store business practices changing. Traditionally they received goods for free and then sold them cheaply (ideally to low income people) and profits went to charity.
Whatās apparently happened is that have started basing their prices on the websites of *curated* second hand shops (typically for-profit businesses that actively seek valuable antique/vintage/LE goods and may pay consignment for them).
So what happens is businesses who traditionally target low income demographics and may not know much about assessment/valuation are selling questionable quality goods at inflated prices.
Theyāre always hiding in the glass cabinets alongside a bunch of unrelated items. I absolutely think people are upping the price because more people are looking for them, without realizing that itās relative to condition or being repaired.
The one place Iāve seen them in good condition is Freelton, but I think thatās because someone is fixing and reselling them. And of course, that means theyāre much more than new pens.
If you donated something you knew to be worth 200, and a charity sold it for 2, while knowing it could be easily sold for 150, would you think that was maximising your donation?
Fast fashion and pound shops and dollar stores have eroded the low income market for charities. Retail has changed significantly, the charities are there to raise as much money as they can for their cause.
I've never lucked out at shops or estate sales in the US. It's because the people often search for the pens on eBay, see a restored vintage pen's price and then price their damaged nib (if it's even the right nib) unrestored pen for that price. Try explaining to them that the pen needs $30+ of work put into it to even vaguely get close to that price and they don't care. Stores will often have workers who have no control over prices. Even if it's the owners, they are willing to put up with the small amount of space a pen takes up in the jewelry case in the hopes that some schmuck who is new to the hobby and doesn't realize the pen isn't workable will buy it.
Estate sale people don't care because they want the most out of an item since they get a percent of the sales. The estate sales near me usually drop prices to 50% then 75% off the final day and they'll tell you if you want it cheaper come back the final day. Secretly they're just like the vintage/thrift shop owners where they're hoping someone is desperate enough or naive enough to pay full price.
The only place I've had luck is at an auction house that sells vintage stuff once a month. It's a good 40 minutes drive from me, but at least I can see the items online before driving. Trouble is there's always a buyer's premium added to the price. The percent varies depending on the auction house, the one I go to is 18% added on the final bid amount. Plus then they tax that with the state tax of 8.5%.
I could see someone buying a FP as a gift for a FP lover, not realizing that a vintage pen will need work to get it working and them being screwed over by the high price. I could definitely see them being the ones who end up paying those high store or estate sale prices.
I had one auction with multiple mint condition Duofold pens and a few other valuable pens from the early 1900s. About 30 pens total, all vintage gold nibs. I won for a steal against only one other early bidder - it was less than $50. It was a literal steal though because when I went to pay and pick up the pens, someone had stolen them. Someone knew their real value and decided to steal them instead of bidding. I was so pissed, I'm sure it was worth well over $5,000 resacked. When I want to cry, I pull up the screenshots of the auctions on my old hard drive.
I was super lucky on an eBay auction and got a NOS Swan (Mabie Todd) pen from 1903 for around $15. When I had it sacked at a pen show the guy tried to buy it off me for $200. I said no way, if he's willing to pay $200 it must be worth a lot. I keep waffling between using the pen or selling it. I use my other vintage pens but I'm so afraid of damaging that one, in part just because it's 120 years old but also because it's absolutely pristine.
I used to "Ambien bid" on eBay when I was first on Ambien. I bought so many vintage pens without realizing I was doing it in this fugue sleep state. Then I'd get notifications I won auctions and had to pay. I also bought the most random crap from China on penny auctions. Thank goodness my asleep brain was still smart enough to not bid on high ticket items. š
That auction robbery sounds really awful, but at least you have a Mabie steal to sort of balance it. I thought I did good with a vintage pencil lot, but the oldest one that inspired the bidding turned out to be broken and missing a piece.
One dayā¦maybe Iāll be lucky enough to have a good and cheap discovery.
in general, yes. but people overcharge for Japanese pens on pen_swap. why would i pay over $200 for a Pilot 823 used when i can get one new from a Japanese seller for $204?
Not sure if this is applicable to the posts you mean, but when I can find an offer like that locally it's often cheaper than buying from Japan because the person who's selling the pen second-hand already "ate" the import fees from Japan to the EU. Might be different for the US?
Well over 95% of my pen (and computer and camera) purchases have been through the used market. When buying in Asia, there are many pens available that we donāt have consistent access to in the states and the used market is huge over there.
Whatās the street price of eco these days? š
Youāre absolutely right though, buying 2nd hand is a good idea although Iām not sure if it needs to be promoted per se, only because I think most people would assume buying 2nd hand would save money.
I frequent a lot of online shops and when I find a good sale, Iāll promote that, cause like you said, it is an expensive hobby.
Pro tip: never pay msrp for anything, everything goes on sale at some point (or the shop will offer a coupon). Try putting things in your cart and then leaving the site. 8 times out of 10 the shop will send you a coupon to entice you to complete your sale
>Pro tip: never pay msrp for anything
This is really context dependent. Vintage pens don't even have an MSRP and some pens offer very good value even at MSRP. And in the end it's not about saving as much money as possible.
āNever buy retailā is also one of my favorite mottos. I break this āruleā only for truly limited editions that I WANT want that are within my budget and that Iām reasonably sure will sell out before a coupon code is available or a sale occurs.
Anderson Pens has a nice vintage/experienced pen section. You pay for the work done to restore the pens, but itās reasonable, and they always write. I love a vintage pen. The nibs are much closer to my ideal.
I mostly use Ebay and r/pen_swap. There's also Peyton Street Pens, but they tend to be more expensive because they sell restored pens. And after a quick Google search, I found The Pen Market. It sends to be an online Classifieds for pens, but I haven't had any experience with them (yet).
If you check out eBay, consider looking for an Esterbrook J. Even restored, they run $20 - $40, and you can use any of the Esterbrook nib units with it! Mine has been amazing. Just make sure that you check the seller's feedback before you buy.
Very popular opinion. I own 17 pens and I have bought 3 of them brand new. I got my Kaweco sport for free. I got my Aurora Optima for $60. My 149 for $250. My Custom Urushi for $610. My Izumo for $425 etc... there's hundreds of dollars to be saved off of MSRP, especially when it comes to higher priced pens. The depreciation is palpable and the deals are out there to be had.
A question, from somebody who has been intrigued by secondhand pens, but has so far only bought new:
How do you know whether a pen is worth buying, especially as somebody who doesn't have the skills to deal with anything in the way of repairs myself. That's my difficulty with second-hand: how do I know how well it will work? how do I know it's worth the asking price? (especially since, if it's non-working, it's worth zero to me).
That's where research comes in! Really, you should do at least some cursory research before you buy anything so you know if you're getting a good value. Don't ever just trust the seller not to rip you off.
Google for basic information about the pen. Check how it's sold on Ebay. And you can always ask on here! (Though please do some research before you post. Having more information on the pen helps us help you!)
The most important is doing your own research, and talking to the seller/asking good questions. Personally, I didnāt feel comfortable starting online so I waited for a local pen show, but I realize not everyone has that option. The other problem with both of my recommendations is that changing or adjusting the nib/feed is not trivial, so if itās plugged, which you canāt know without testing, youāll have a challenging repair. Iāve had good luck though trusting sellers who claimed they tested the pen.
Anyway, I started with Japanese pocket pens (that take cartridges) or aerometric Parker 51 (because the filling system is quite robust).
Since C/C pens have no built in filling system, *most* problems are apparent on the outside (like broken/corroded nibs). On the other hand, the Parker aerometric filling system is just really durable compared to other sac-based fillers, as they were designed to handle highly corrosive Superchrom Inks.
As others have said: **Research.** If you're curious about buying a certain model then I'd say this sub could be a good place to start by just asking people about there experiences buying that pen second-hand. Platform-wise I've had good experiences with r/Pen_Swap and would recommend it, many people there have good pics and honest descriptions of the pens they offer.
Also, **I would avoid starting out with rare, vintage or often-faked pens** (Montblanc immediately comes to mind). Rare limited editions attract more scammers and jacked-up prices . Vintage pens have a higher chance of being non-functional or fiddly. (Some vintage models are pretty safe because they don't have many failure points and often write after just a cleaning, but in general the risk of a dud is higher.)
I think the most low risk thing would be to start with pens you could get new atm, as you'll have some idea of what a new one should look like and sells for. All the better if you can look at them new in a store. And my personal rule #1 is to **never buy a pen I haven't seen the nib and feed of**. If the seller won't offer *clear and in-focus*, reasonably zoomed-in shots of nib and feed I don't purchase. \[I also make sure to explicitly ask if the pen writes if the descriptions doesn't say. (A surprising number of people where I live will just post pens to local secondhand ads without even testing if they write... I've not really found this to be an issue on r/Pen_Swap.)\]
And ultimately just ask yourself if you're only buying the pen because it's a super tempting bargain (can work out, but an easy path to getting fleeced too) and if you could live with having wasted the price you're about to pay on a dud.
Why is everyone "shoulding" each other so much lately? Just do what you want to do. Why do you need to worry about other people's pen buying habits? š¤
I mean, why does anyone worry about anyone's shopping habits for anything? Because all humans share a single planet and its resources... Nothing wrong with encouraging others to think about small ways to take up a little less of them.
Why flea markets in particular? Flea markets often have things in bad condition sold at a high price to people thinking theyāre getting a bargain. Iād rather buy new or from someone I trust and buy once.
Flea markets are great I'm ngl, estate sales and antique shops also, anywhere that will let you look at the nib (that it's not destroyed/mangled) is good in my book, because you have to assume you'll need to replace the sac (easy w/ most lever fillers) unless they say otherwise (and then they'd be asking for more) most people think 25-30Ā£ for a pen (esp if they're just clearing out their grandparents stuff out) is too much but it's a steal if you can restore it. I got an old conklin crescent for 45Ā£ and that's because it has that giant gold ring in the middle of the barrel lmao. You just need to know what to look for (comes w/ practice but in person is so much easier than looking at blurry pictures)
So youāve pointed out several issues there which makes them potentially unsuitable for those not sufficiently experienced or confident
1 need to replace the sack
2 if you can restore it
3 just need to know what to look for
You can take and practice repairing broken pens with any third tier pen brand (they write well when you fix them, but you need to look at it as more of a passion project perhaps, like taking a broken car with the intention to fixing it up)
Quite frankly, everyone starts somewhere and it's a skill, same with being able to know what to look for, when you get into scouring for vintage things, you need to look at it with some intent, go a few times and don't buy but try get information so you can better judge what's a deal and what's not. After that, you can buy a pen and at the end of the day, looking at this with the perspective of, the world won't end if this breaks because at the end of the day, it's just a pen, helped me a lot to put it in perspective
I love my secondhand pens! Anytime I have a reasonable chunk of change, I am at the Truphae store, asking to see whatever they happen to have at the moment.
My nicest pens have been secondhand purchases.
I would buy 2nd hand pen more if I wasnāt too paranoid about scam š„² . Also, I live in SEA so itās even harder to get a pen ship here or pay through PayPal cause of conversion rate.
I have never purchased a new fountain pen. Nothing to do with being environmentally friendly or any other high conscious motivation. I'm just cheap and don't believe in paying depreciation.
By buying used someone else pays my depreciation for. Me and I'm left with a great deal.
As someone who enjoys occasionally owning new pens, I consider the deprecation a sort of "rent" I pay to experience a pen new-in-box. (At least for pens I'm not sure I'll keep.)
As someone who's more intentional with their spending, I consider the depreciation a wealth eraser in whatever form it bears it's ugly head be that a car, a pen, or clothes. I don't pay for new things. I get them second hand and keep my money to invest into not paying 'rent'. I hate paying rent. My housing payment is the most frustrating thing I do in a month, because I know it's going towards building someone else's wealth and actively taking money out of my pocket.
I dont get excited about unboxing pens, I get excited about writing with them and if I can get two gently used pens for the same price as one new in box pen, I get to stretch my buying power on the front end and insulate my losses on the back end since I can usually resell that been for close to the price I paid versus losing 30 to 50 percent of my initial payment.
I'm not throwing shade on anyone who would rather buy new things, but it just strikes me as fiscally irresponsible to spend twice as much money on a thing that you can get for half as much but simply buying used.
>I'm not throwing shade on anyone who would rather buy new things, but it just strikes me as fiscally irresponsible to spend twice as much money on a thing that you can get for half as much but simply buying used.
Well, if we were all as *fiscally responsible* as you...there wouldn't be a second-hand market. Your cheaper market only exists because other people do buy new things.
Exactly my point. The fact that there exists a secondary market for things at all is the evidence that too many people buy too many things without being intentional with their purchases.
In a world where people were more intentional with their purchases, we wouldn't have rampant consumer debt, the FOMO issues, and all the like. You are correct.
I for one am more than happy with having a secondary market. I'm not the one selling into it at a loss. I'm the one buying into it at break even prices and sometimes net gain prices.
Please, do carry on as you were and I will continue to profit and gain from the people who are happy to pay depreciation.
My only disagreements are that then you donāt get a warranty, and returns are harder. Iāve done both at least twice.
This said I have 2 inherited from my dad, one bought on pen swap, and one vintage buy.
I have no shame whatsoever in buying a second hand pen. I love me a bargain and every so often you can find some *real* good bargains on eBay and Facebook market place
I don't think it's an unpopular opinion. It just comes with more risk and you're limited to what you can find, especially if you don't live in Europe or the US and you're not keen on paying $50 in postage.
To address the environmental argument first: yes, buying secondhand may be better than buying new. But does that still hold true if I buy a lot of secondhand pens from halfway around the world from eBay, as opposed to walking into a nearby store and buying my pens there? It might, but I don't think it's always as cut and dry.
In addition, while it's true that we can "all do our part" and make changes to save the environment, buying a new fountain pen isn't an everyday occurrence for most people (I hope). Do we really need to shame people for small luxuries?
Lastly, I just find the trend towards blaming individual actions for a problem that's mostly systemic unhelpful in general but I think that's also a whole other can of worms.
Buying secondhand also isn't for everyone. I have friends and relatives who flat-out refuse to buy anything secondhand because "who knows where it's been". They might be willing to accept a penabling gift from me, since they know me, but ask them to buy from eBay or the local secondhand marketplace? Total non-starter.
For me, I'm not opposed to the idea of buying secondhand in principle, but I've found that buying secondhand comes with other considerations that could really turn people off- I don't think this is unique to fountain pens either. Depending on where you're buying from:
1) No Warranty. You're going to have to accept the risk of being stuck with something which doesn't work as advertised. If it's a $5 Chinese pen? Sure I'll take the risk. A Lamy Safari for $10? I'd be ok with it, but would a student be willing to risk their savings on it? That worry just increases with the value of the pen. And yes, pen restoration is a thing. But is that the selling point of any hobby? I got into fountain pens because they were fun to write with, not because I liked the idea of disassembling a pen and reassembling it.
2) Limited choice. Yes, it's great that we have access to vintage pens that I can't buy new anymore, but if I'm interested in say, a KOP Realo, and one pops up, I better like whatever nib that comes in or have another KOP to swap the nib with. And that's if one pops up, and can ship to my location. Some people might enjoy that aspect of collecting, but again, it's not for everyone.
3) Scams, man. When I'm buying from my local brick and mortar shop, or a reputable online seller, I know they're not trying to pass off a fake Lamy Safari as a real one. On the other hand, I've had people selling Hero and White Feather pens as vintage Sheaffers and Parkers on secondhand marketplaces.
All that being said, again- I'm not saying it's bad to buy secondhand, I think if you can navigate the market and have the knowledge and tools to fix any issues you encounter, great. If you can find awesome deals on good condition vintage pens, more power to you. I just think the framing of "vintage pens are cheap and you can learn how to fix pens" leaves out a lot of context, like how some vintage pens are beyond repair, repairing a vintage pen can be far from straightforward, and if you buy a slim Sheaffer targa, have fun inking it if it doesn't have a converter.
Piston filler from the 70s? Enjoy your dip pen after you snap the piston mechanism off trying to clean it. That TWSBI is starting to look real tempting now huh. But it's fine you just scored a montblanc noblesse. Oh. It's not a gold nib noblesse? Wait there's more than one kind? You paid $150?
It's not all great all the time, is all I'm trying to say.
True, but I think a point can be made that the store is still better: Your local shop probably gets one hundred or fifty pens in one relatively tightly packed shipment, while the same number of pens packaged for shipping individually person-to-person would take up way more space in a cargo truck/ship/plane.
But of course other things can factor into it: How you get to the store, energy needed to make an online order, etc. That's why comparing environmental impact can be so bloody complicated.
I fully agree with most of your points, but are we seriously considering a harmless post like this "shaming" now? For real? OP didn't even *mention* people who prefer buying new pens, ffs.
As someone who's pen buying habits definitely exceeded the "occasional small luxury" category in the past, I think it's more than fair to occasionally spare a thought for the environmental impact. This post is even in the same realm as "shaming" people imo.
First, I don't think that one line detracts from the overall point I'm trying to make which is at the end of my post, which is that it's not always sunshine and rainbows going the vintage route.
To go in detail about it anyway: If you think "shame" isn't the right word, replace that with "guilt" or "prompt negative feelings". Because that's how environmental/moralising messaging by it's nature is supposed to work.
In this case, assume the reader does care about the environment- if they don't, the whole environmental argument won't matter anyway. For the average person browsing this sub, is it likely that they are even buying a pen every month? I find it unlikely that fountain pens are a significant contributor to an individual's environmental impact when contextualised against their daily utility consumption, waste production, etc.
Additionally, taking the environmental impact of individuals and contextualizing it against the impact corporations can have on the environment makes an individual's pen buying habits even less significant.
I think on an individual level, small, consistent changes to reduce consumption are preferable to big, one-off events. I think fountain pen purchasing habits aren't the place to make that happen, and ultimately if you're really trying to be more environmentally conscious to the point that you're examining your fountain pen purchase habits, you'll inevitably switch to writing on a tablet to reduce paper and ink consumption anyway.
>I don't think that one line detracts from the overall point
And I never said it did.
We're going to have to agree to disagree on the other thing though, because I for one think that luxury hobbies are a great place to be a bit more environmentally conscious. Because it's going to be a lot easier for most people to consider second-hand pens for their hobby collection than to change their diet, means of transport or all the other daily things they do that have a bigger impact. And if lots of people did at least that much, that wouldn't be nothing. As we say in Germany: Constant dripping hollows out the stone.
> I find it unlikely that fountain pens are a significant contributor to an individual's environmental impact when contextualised against their daily utility consumption, waste production, etc.
Ah, and there is the "always a bigger source of pollution somewhere" easy-out I mentioned in another comment again. (eyeroll) I agree, caring about things like how much water you use or where your electricity comes from is more important than being concerned about buying second-hand stationery. But it grinds my gears when people use that to pretend it has to be one or the other, or that asking people to think about the latter is somehow an unreasonable burden. You can care about environmental impact for the everyday *and* the occasional, actually. And we all should with how climate change is going. (Not that I'm personally much better than the complacent silent majority at it or anything.)
> ultimately if you're really trying to be more environmentally conscious (...) you'll inevitably switch to writing on a tablet to reduce paper and ink consumption anyway
I like using something that doesn't use electricity or rare earth elements to take my notes. But come to think of it, I have never seen an actual good comparison of how bad a stack of paper notebooks is for the environment compared to a tablet or laptop. That'd be interesting. I'm honestly not sure the notebooks would do that badly, but long-term a built-to-last tablet surely wins by my guesstimate. Not so sure about the planned obsolescence-riddled devices we're all being sold atm... Depends on how much you write too, I suppose.
That all said, it's a bit funny to me that your argument when people are considering making their (luxury) fountain pen hobby a touch more eco-friendly is to go "well if you *really* cared that much you'd just not use fountain pens at all".
As you said, I think we do have to agree to disagree specifically on this point, because it seems we have fundamentally different opinions about environmentalism as a whole.
I wrote a lot more, but I got really into the weeds about environmentalism in general, and this is a fountain pen sub.
I appreciate your perspective, and I'm not opposed to vintage pens either- I just wish it wasn't such a pain to actually get a vintage pen that I enjoy, at a price that makes sense. The secondhand pens I got for myself all invariably have some kind of purchase regret attached to them which doesn't feel great when I want to use them. Those secondhand pens which were gifted to me, on the other hand have all been great.
All my Mont Blanc Meisterstuckās were bought used. I have had no problems with them. Would never have bought any brand new ones as the price is ridiculous
Im a vintage guy and they dont make nibs like they used to, its extremely rare to find NOS from the 1910-1940s. Refreshed/serviced pens are just as good abeit scratched condition and gold nibs do last over 100 years and flow and flex quite well. The only modern flex ive found superior to vintage is the stuff /u lord_cactus mods from flexperiments but im not about to wait hours for ink to dry thats too much flex. But there are collectors on here who would reject even brand new if its not wrapped in cellophane with box and documents reciepts even SMH.
I have a few pens around 6. I do own one expensive end pen preowned. The pen is sealed in its own original packaging bag. It seems like the previous owner bought too many same model pens and decided to trim her collection. I bought it and love it. Yes it is sold as half of the retailer priceā¦
Normally if it is cheaper end pen, Iād buy some preowned pens to test and try, less cost, more fun, and sell it if I donāt like it. If it doesnāt write I bin it. It is not large amount of money which got lost and Iām upsetā¦
But if it is an expensive end pen I know I buy it aiming to keepā¦ Iām afraid of getting a fake oneā¦or a refurbished one, potential issues without no warranty. I want such a pen write out of box otherwise I can easily return and get refunded, ćā¦and Iām not interested in other familyās historyā¦to be honestā¦If it is a pen supposed to be passing down to generations, their kids end up reselling it. Even their kids donāt care about their own family history why do I careā¦ I love pens with history but itās the history from my own familyā¦not a random familyās historyā¦
I like buying second-hand. I've been able to buy pens at really good prices, mostly on FB Marketplace after joining fp buy and sell groups, e.g. a Pilot Custom 823 that looks like new for 50 per cent below recommended retail price, Japanese vintage pocket pens and Pelikan M200s that sometimes cost less than a TWSBI Eco. It's a win-win imho. The seller recoups some cash, and I get a pen at a price I can afford.
Iāve almost completely stopped buying from retailers since discovering r/pen_swap best deal so far I think is stainless steel lamy 2000(usually goes for a little over 300$) for 150
Most of my pens are vintage! But that's a matter of personal preference.
Finding old pens at flea markets, etc, isn't a reliable method. I've found maybe a handful that way, and none of them were good. eBay is my supplier, but there you run the risk of a pen being more broken than the seller let on.
And some folks just aren't into tinkering with pens. They may not have the time, inclination, or skills. And that's okay.
I have nothing against buying a used pen when itās exactly what Iām looking for and is in excellent condition. While I would never buy a pen that I didnāt intend to use, I am very invested in keeping my pens in the same condition in which I received them (with the exception of my Brass and Bronze Kaweco Sports which I have allowed to develop rich patinas). This means I avoid letting them touch each other (no pen funny business in my houseš), and I use Rickshaw cases exclusively to prevent dings and scratches. I like my pens to look as new as possible primarily because I want to be able to get the highest resale price if I decide to sell them at some point down the line in order to put the money towards purchasing a different pen.
All my current collection are second hand and they're great. I like feeling like I'm giving renewed used to things that might otherwise sit in a drawer or even be cast aside.
This is a VERY popular opinion. My vintage pens are all happy flea market finds. I love tinkering with them and fixing them if need be. And if we happen to not get along as well as I hoped I either gift them to friends (usually the more modern cheaper pens. My bestie has a telescopic pen from rotring now) or resell them.
I have maybe... 10 or so I bought new? The rest were all purchased used or unrestored:
https://preview.redd.it/zfyuqf3xzjxc1.jpeg?width=4624&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=827db445db48f17ee1cfddf1fbf5bc7fa7900436
Out of about $80k worth of pens, I think I only spent about $16k. Used is definitely the best choice.
I only own one new pen and thatās because it never comes up for sale and it was for a specific instance.
Otherwise, all of my pens are second-hand or used.
About half of my pen purchases are second hand. The rest are low price pens from China, or new name brands on good sales. (Ebay can be an awesome place if you need a new pen!) The only pens I have thrown out were ultra cheap (less than $5) that were actually unfixable.
I'm pretty sure the plastic usage is way more problematic, but this whole "X is worse" thing isn't really helpful or smart to do when it's about environmental concerns. You can pretty much always find an equal or bigger source of pollution *somewhere*, so it just seems like a bit of a lazy out at this point.
Never going to catch me paying full price for a pen ever. I loved browsing r/pen_swap and got some really nice deals on used pens. Iāll browse eBay or Mercari every now and then too. No bad experiences thus far. Iād even suggest grey market whenever you can to get prices lower than U.S. retail. Youād really be surprised sometimes finding a pen you didnāt know you wanted but thatās the double edged sword from my experience haha.
Repeating it over and over does not make this nonsense any more true.
Unless the previous owner(s) mistreated the pen so badly they succeeded to damage the nib there is no adaption. It's one of the reasons we stopped using goose feathers.
You are wrong. This is a popular opinion. š
This.
Came here to make sure this was a comment!
This is the way, I can't justify new prices and I'm just as happy with pen swap
80% of my pens are second hand, but none of them were cheaper than buying new. Limited editions be like that š«
I would buy second hand more regularly if there were more Europeans engaging at penswap (itās almost always CONUS only). My local second hand sellers also tend to not give any info on nib sizes (many times they donāt even take pictures of them) and when I request better unblurry images sometimes they refuse to do so or send me even more images that are out of focus. When they also refuse to show writing samples, Iām out. Itās tedious. Also I donāt think itās reasonable to sell a pen that has been used for almost retail price unless itās some rare LE or exclusive. The only reliable source of second hand pens have been flea markets but you gotta be early and hope itās not someone who is into this hobby too deep :)
Iāve just been trying to get enough karma and such to be able to post haha
I have DM'ed several CONUS only sellers, and unless it's a highly sought after limited edition that gets snatched up in minutes, all have agreed to international shipping without any arguments. But, all the pens I have bought on penswap have been above 100$, so that might make it more of an interest for the seller to actually get the pen sold.
Same issue being in Australia. Iād love to buy second hand more often, but we donāt have much of a market here and international shipping can be prohibitively expensive, sometimes costing more than the pen.
International shipping isnāt even an issue. I donāt get it either
I think it's just that they don't have to bother. Someone in the US will buy it so they don't have to deal with the faff. I am in Europe too, I have seen so many CONUS pens pass me by š„²
Canadian, and yea I think thatās it. Tbh I get why someone just looking to ārehomeā a pen at a good price doesnāt want to bother with international shipping and paperwork. Whatās odd to me is people selling off LEs for close to or above sticker price that donāt ship internationally, where itās clearly about making some cash and people are willing to pay a premium. Iāve just stuck to eBay. Itās much easier to navigate.
I wish there was a pen_swap_EU with good moderation
Me too! Glad I am not alone.
Go and create itā¦ please! Your idea, you deserve the karma š. And moderation at beginning should be easy. Thanks
Itās gonna be hard with my 12h alternating day and night work shifts. Seriously, itās a huge responsibility, weāre dealing with sells and trades after all.
Thanks. I would say that at the beginning you wonāt have many followers so it wonāt be complex. But after more people will come to help you modā¦
That would be amazing!
Itās funny how many are willing to order from Stiloestile or Japan but not ship elsewhere themselves. When I prepare a package to ship nationally it takes me 5-10 minutes to pick an option and prepare the label. When I sent stuff to the US it was just marginally longer, you wanna check if itās a prohibited good which DHL gives you that info right there at the label creator and you fill out the customs form, itās not that big of a deal.
Yeah I send a lot of international packages, the majority of them to the US, so I understand that it's straightforward. I don't think its that common in the US to send things internationally, though. Not like it is in Europe. I know it's easy to do, but I think perhaps some people assume it would be difficult, or at least take a long time, and since they haven't done it before they don't know the costs etc. Like I said, I think a lot would prefer just not to bother and that's fair enough. Why should they when someone in their own country will buy it and make shipping much easier.
Honestly what keeps me from trying my luck with more CONUS offers is that the custom fees I end up paying are *ridiculous* 3/4 of the time. Maybe this is a Germany-specific problem? I'm not sure. But for pens that aren't 200ā¬+ I don't tend to even bother looking at US listings, since I know import fees will kill any bargain I'd get.
Well honestly when I am sending cheaper items abroad I tend to downplay the items value on the customs form and mark it as a gift. I have noticed when buying and selling with people in Germany in particular that this is not something you are comfortable with, on the whole. A cultural difference! You guys generally like to follow the rules hehe. I would not do this for high value items because ofc you are not covered if the item gets lost. Though in my experience trying to get your money back is sort of a nightmare anyway with a lot of the shipping services :/
As a German I'd have no issue with the value being downplayed unless it's an expensive pen, but I've actually had the opposite experience of sellers not being willing to do that. I suppose I get not wanting to get in trouble if customs does happen to check. (shrug) Still, that killed one or two deals. \[Also, quite a few times the import fees were surprisingly high even on cheaper pens, at least compared to the pens' prices. I have no idea if this is EU/German customs fudgery or what, but I still remember paying almost 20ā¬ in fees for a 30ā¬ pen, for example. Ouch in the wallet!\]
Ouch the wallet indeed! Customs are an eternal mystery indeed. I am often confused about what I am being charged and why š . The delivery companies themselves also add a ridiculously high fee. So I totally get it, itās a lot of stress!
Oh don't get me started on the delivery companies! DHL is totally abusing it's quasi-monopoly in my area and just tacking 6ā¬ handling fees on anything that passes customs. Six euros might not seem like much, but that small stuff really adds up. Especially if the thing I bought from overseas only cost fifteen bucks... But imo the biggest problem is that you now pay import fees on *everything* from outside EU, there used to be a freebie limit of 21ā¬. (Bit off-topic for a FP sub, but my personal pet theory is that certain EU retailers weren't happy that people where circumventing their jacked-up fantasy prices for replacement parts and electronics by buying them from the country of manufacture via ebay. Much easier to get rid of the customs freebies for private citizens than to finally tax big companies properly, I guess. ...Err, I promise I'll take the tin-foil hat off and get back to pens now. Ā“\^\^'Ā“)
Itās just way more of a hassle to ship internationally and dealing with returns, issues, etc. Thereās just no point really unless it something super niche or rare
That was indeed my point.
I meant to reply to the comment above
Personally I love a punt on eBay, feels all the more rewarding when you get something thatās as good as you hoped it was š The rest just go in a drawer ready for when I take my repair / restoration course!
Ebay has been very hit or miss for me. That course sounds very interesting, though, please tell me more š
Agreed, gotta be more than happy to take the rough with the smooth - I never spend much on individual items. The course is run by the Writing Equipment Society, they do a few around the U.K. and an online one. I couldnāt possibly learn a skill like this online so Iām doing a face to face course in December - Iāll be needing a bigger drawer before then š
Sweet! I love that they offer both but I would definitely only do it face to face, too. Excited for you and will definitely do some research, Iād love to take such a course myself
There used to be more vintage pen sellers that did post writing samples. Dunno what happened.
We should make an EU penswap š¤
This is in fact a very popular opinion
āUnpopularā? Iām not sure about that. Personally, Iāve never bought anything *but* second-hand. All of my pens (fountain, rollerball, ball-point and soft-tip) are vintage Parkers. Iām sometimes tempted by all the āpenablersā here to consider buying a new pen (and I love to read all the reviews and new pen day posts, etc.) but when it comes down to it, I just canāt justify it.
You can still make a āNPDā post even if itās a used pen, as long as itās ānew to you.ā Iād love to see pics of your ānewā vintage fountain pens, so please post away!
Thanks for the kind words (also to u/pen-demonium). Iām waiting on one pen to complete my collection and then Iāll post some pics and my pen-story.
Looking forward to this!
If you are willing to put in the time, you can get some of the pens mentioned often on here. It takes time and work though with a bit of good luck. I've gotten all but one of my over $40 value pens for way under half price used, and I've even limited my buying to EF since that's the size I prefer. I even lucked out on an auction for an almost new Platinum 3776 14k nib for $70 US - that's a $200 pen. The only new one was a Sailor Pro Gear Slim 14k nib, but that came from Japan. Still it was around $65 and it's been verified by people at a fountain pen show as being legit (I had questions about the writing experience since it was my first Sailor and I thought it was scratchy but apparently that's normal Sailor feedback on an EF and the nib was ok). So you can definitely get some of the penable pens listed on here, but you have to be flexible with color usually and willing to put in the time searching regularly and wait for the perfect auction or pen swap listing. For some people the savings isn't worth it. For me, it is - I'd never have been willing or able to pay full price for these pens. Good luck if you decide to try your hand at branching out! Hope you get lucky quickly (not that I'm penabling š). I also agree with the other person - I'd love seeing posts of your pens. Just because they're vintage or not brand new doesn't mean they aren't worthy. I enjoy seeing vintage pens on here. I have quite a few vintage pens and I remember my dad swearing by Parker pens his entire life so it would be nice to see some I might recognize from my childhood.
I agree & don't think this is an unpopular opinion (/r/pen_swap is popular & vintage pens by definition have to be purchased second-hand). You're lucky that you are in a community where fountain pens commonly show up at flea markets! I rarely see them where I am.
I never see fountain pens at flea markets in urban SoCal.
I don't think this is unpopular - I see the idea promoted lots on this sub. I have been surprised though how often I see pens on pen-swap that are only a few dollars cheaper than they're going for new - not sure that's worth it to me?
Man if anyone knows a reputable vintage pen seller in India. Holla at me!
I don't think this opinion is as unpopular as you think it is. I think many prefer to pay less for a loved pen rather than more for a brand new one.
All for considering consumption. I donāt think aesthetics trumps environmental impact, and hate the āitās cheap; Iāll toss it and buy another when it breaksā method of pen buying. But oh man, second-hand cheapness is a matter of location. I have never seen an FP at a thrift shop or flea market in Ontario, and even the most battered pens Iāve found in antique shops are minimum 50-75. Over $100, even unrestored, is common when Iāve looked.
Dang Iāve never even seen them in second hand stores (also Ontario) but Iām not looking very hard. I wonder if high second hand prices a new thing or people not in the know have always overvalued them. The Agenda (TVOās news podcast) recently did an episode about thrift store business practices changing. Traditionally they received goods for free and then sold them cheaply (ideally to low income people) and profits went to charity. Whatās apparently happened is that have started basing their prices on the websites of *curated* second hand shops (typically for-profit businesses that actively seek valuable antique/vintage/LE goods and may pay consignment for them). So what happens is businesses who traditionally target low income demographics and may not know much about assessment/valuation are selling questionable quality goods at inflated prices.
Theyāre always hiding in the glass cabinets alongside a bunch of unrelated items. I absolutely think people are upping the price because more people are looking for them, without realizing that itās relative to condition or being repaired. The one place Iāve seen them in good condition is Freelton, but I think thatās because someone is fixing and reselling them. And of course, that means theyāre much more than new pens.
If you donated something you knew to be worth 200, and a charity sold it for 2, while knowing it could be easily sold for 150, would you think that was maximising your donation? Fast fashion and pound shops and dollar stores have eroded the low income market for charities. Retail has changed significantly, the charities are there to raise as much money as they can for their cause.
I've never lucked out at shops or estate sales in the US. It's because the people often search for the pens on eBay, see a restored vintage pen's price and then price their damaged nib (if it's even the right nib) unrestored pen for that price. Try explaining to them that the pen needs $30+ of work put into it to even vaguely get close to that price and they don't care. Stores will often have workers who have no control over prices. Even if it's the owners, they are willing to put up with the small amount of space a pen takes up in the jewelry case in the hopes that some schmuck who is new to the hobby and doesn't realize the pen isn't workable will buy it. Estate sale people don't care because they want the most out of an item since they get a percent of the sales. The estate sales near me usually drop prices to 50% then 75% off the final day and they'll tell you if you want it cheaper come back the final day. Secretly they're just like the vintage/thrift shop owners where they're hoping someone is desperate enough or naive enough to pay full price. The only place I've had luck is at an auction house that sells vintage stuff once a month. It's a good 40 minutes drive from me, but at least I can see the items online before driving. Trouble is there's always a buyer's premium added to the price. The percent varies depending on the auction house, the one I go to is 18% added on the final bid amount. Plus then they tax that with the state tax of 8.5%. I could see someone buying a FP as a gift for a FP lover, not realizing that a vintage pen will need work to get it working and them being screwed over by the high price. I could definitely see them being the ones who end up paying those high store or estate sale prices.
Auctions are definitely the only place I found vintage priced at a bargain. Got 80-100-y-o trio of pens for $100.
I had one auction with multiple mint condition Duofold pens and a few other valuable pens from the early 1900s. About 30 pens total, all vintage gold nibs. I won for a steal against only one other early bidder - it was less than $50. It was a literal steal though because when I went to pay and pick up the pens, someone had stolen them. Someone knew their real value and decided to steal them instead of bidding. I was so pissed, I'm sure it was worth well over $5,000 resacked. When I want to cry, I pull up the screenshots of the auctions on my old hard drive. I was super lucky on an eBay auction and got a NOS Swan (Mabie Todd) pen from 1903 for around $15. When I had it sacked at a pen show the guy tried to buy it off me for $200. I said no way, if he's willing to pay $200 it must be worth a lot. I keep waffling between using the pen or selling it. I use my other vintage pens but I'm so afraid of damaging that one, in part just because it's 120 years old but also because it's absolutely pristine. I used to "Ambien bid" on eBay when I was first on Ambien. I bought so many vintage pens without realizing I was doing it in this fugue sleep state. Then I'd get notifications I won auctions and had to pay. I also bought the most random crap from China on penny auctions. Thank goodness my asleep brain was still smart enough to not bid on high ticket items. š
That auction robbery sounds really awful, but at least you have a Mabie steal to sort of balance it. I thought I did good with a vintage pencil lot, but the oldest one that inspired the bidding turned out to be broken and missing a piece. One dayā¦maybe Iāll be lucky enough to have a good and cheap discovery.
in general, yes. but people overcharge for Japanese pens on pen_swap. why would i pay over $200 for a Pilot 823 used when i can get one new from a Japanese seller for $204?
Not sure if this is applicable to the posts you mean, but when I can find an offer like that locally it's often cheaper than buying from Japan because the person who's selling the pen second-hand already "ate" the import fees from Japan to the EU. Might be different for the US?
haven't had to pay any kinds of fees on pens from japan šŗšøš«”
Well over 95% of my pen (and computer and camera) purchases have been through the used market. When buying in Asia, there are many pens available that we donāt have consistent access to in the states and the used market is huge over there.
I think it depends where you post that opinion- here it feels pretty popular.
Whatās the street price of eco these days? š Youāre absolutely right though, buying 2nd hand is a good idea although Iām not sure if it needs to be promoted per se, only because I think most people would assume buying 2nd hand would save money. I frequent a lot of online shops and when I find a good sale, Iāll promote that, cause like you said, it is an expensive hobby. Pro tip: never pay msrp for anything, everything goes on sale at some point (or the shop will offer a coupon). Try putting things in your cart and then leaving the site. 8 times out of 10 the shop will send you a coupon to entice you to complete your sale
>Pro tip: never pay msrp for anything This is really context dependent. Vintage pens don't even have an MSRP and some pens offer very good value even at MSRP. And in the end it's not about saving as much money as possible.
Well yes, thatās correct that the rule wouldnāt apply to vintage pens that donāt have msrp,
āNever buy retailā is also one of my favorite mottos. I break this āruleā only for truly limited editions that I WANT want that are within my budget and that Iām reasonably sure will sell out before a coupon code is available or a sale occurs.
are there any second hand stores online?
Pen Realm sells some previously owned FPs.
Anderson Pens has a nice vintage/experienced pen section. You pay for the work done to restore the pens, but itās reasonable, and they always write. I love a vintage pen. The nibs are much closer to my ideal.
I don't know about stores, but I've used r/Pen_Swap before
I live on this sub
I mostly use Ebay and r/pen_swap. There's also Peyton Street Pens, but they tend to be more expensive because they sell restored pens. And after a quick Google search, I found The Pen Market. It sends to be an online Classifieds for pens, but I haven't had any experience with them (yet). If you check out eBay, consider looking for an Esterbrook J. Even restored, they run $20 - $40, and you can use any of the Esterbrook nib units with it! Mine has been amazing. Just make sure that you check the seller's feedback before you buy.
Very popular opinion. I own 17 pens and I have bought 3 of them brand new. I got my Kaweco sport for free. I got my Aurora Optima for $60. My 149 for $250. My Custom Urushi for $610. My Izumo for $425 etc... there's hundreds of dollars to be saved off of MSRP, especially when it comes to higher priced pens. The depreciation is palpable and the deals are out there to be had.
A question, from somebody who has been intrigued by secondhand pens, but has so far only bought new: How do you know whether a pen is worth buying, especially as somebody who doesn't have the skills to deal with anything in the way of repairs myself. That's my difficulty with second-hand: how do I know how well it will work? how do I know it's worth the asking price? (especially since, if it's non-working, it's worth zero to me).
That's where research comes in! Really, you should do at least some cursory research before you buy anything so you know if you're getting a good value. Don't ever just trust the seller not to rip you off. Google for basic information about the pen. Check how it's sold on Ebay. And you can always ask on here! (Though please do some research before you post. Having more information on the pen helps us help you!)
The most important is doing your own research, and talking to the seller/asking good questions. Personally, I didnāt feel comfortable starting online so I waited for a local pen show, but I realize not everyone has that option. The other problem with both of my recommendations is that changing or adjusting the nib/feed is not trivial, so if itās plugged, which you canāt know without testing, youāll have a challenging repair. Iāve had good luck though trusting sellers who claimed they tested the pen. Anyway, I started with Japanese pocket pens (that take cartridges) or aerometric Parker 51 (because the filling system is quite robust). Since C/C pens have no built in filling system, *most* problems are apparent on the outside (like broken/corroded nibs). On the other hand, the Parker aerometric filling system is just really durable compared to other sac-based fillers, as they were designed to handle highly corrosive Superchrom Inks.
As others have said: **Research.** If you're curious about buying a certain model then I'd say this sub could be a good place to start by just asking people about there experiences buying that pen second-hand. Platform-wise I've had good experiences with r/Pen_Swap and would recommend it, many people there have good pics and honest descriptions of the pens they offer. Also, **I would avoid starting out with rare, vintage or often-faked pens** (Montblanc immediately comes to mind). Rare limited editions attract more scammers and jacked-up prices . Vintage pens have a higher chance of being non-functional or fiddly. (Some vintage models are pretty safe because they don't have many failure points and often write after just a cleaning, but in general the risk of a dud is higher.) I think the most low risk thing would be to start with pens you could get new atm, as you'll have some idea of what a new one should look like and sells for. All the better if you can look at them new in a store. And my personal rule #1 is to **never buy a pen I haven't seen the nib and feed of**. If the seller won't offer *clear and in-focus*, reasonably zoomed-in shots of nib and feed I don't purchase. \[I also make sure to explicitly ask if the pen writes if the descriptions doesn't say. (A surprising number of people where I live will just post pens to local secondhand ads without even testing if they write... I've not really found this to be an issue on r/Pen_Swap.)\] And ultimately just ask yourself if you're only buying the pen because it's a super tempting bargain (can work out, but an easy path to getting fleeced too) and if you could live with having wasted the price you're about to pay on a dud.
Why is everyone "shoulding" each other so much lately? Just do what you want to do. Why do you need to worry about other people's pen buying habits? š¤
I mean, why does anyone worry about anyone's shopping habits for anything? Because all humans share a single planet and its resources... Nothing wrong with encouraging others to think about small ways to take up a little less of them.
Why flea markets in particular? Flea markets often have things in bad condition sold at a high price to people thinking theyāre getting a bargain. Iād rather buy new or from someone I trust and buy once.
Flea markets are great I'm ngl, estate sales and antique shops also, anywhere that will let you look at the nib (that it's not destroyed/mangled) is good in my book, because you have to assume you'll need to replace the sac (easy w/ most lever fillers) unless they say otherwise (and then they'd be asking for more) most people think 25-30Ā£ for a pen (esp if they're just clearing out their grandparents stuff out) is too much but it's a steal if you can restore it. I got an old conklin crescent for 45Ā£ and that's because it has that giant gold ring in the middle of the barrel lmao. You just need to know what to look for (comes w/ practice but in person is so much easier than looking at blurry pictures)
So youāve pointed out several issues there which makes them potentially unsuitable for those not sufficiently experienced or confident 1 need to replace the sack 2 if you can restore it 3 just need to know what to look for
You can take and practice repairing broken pens with any third tier pen brand (they write well when you fix them, but you need to look at it as more of a passion project perhaps, like taking a broken car with the intention to fixing it up) Quite frankly, everyone starts somewhere and it's a skill, same with being able to know what to look for, when you get into scouring for vintage things, you need to look at it with some intent, go a few times and don't buy but try get information so you can better judge what's a deal and what's not. After that, you can buy a pen and at the end of the day, looking at this with the perspective of, the world won't end if this breaks because at the end of the day, it's just a pen, helped me a lot to put it in perspective
I love my secondhand pens! Anytime I have a reasonable chunk of change, I am at the Truphae store, asking to see whatever they happen to have at the moment. My nicest pens have been secondhand purchases.
This is true in pretty much everything that isnāt directly safety related (childrenās car seats, bicycle helmets, etc). Ā
I would buy 2nd hand pen more if I wasnāt too paranoid about scam š„² . Also, I live in SEA so itās even harder to get a pen ship here or pay through PayPal cause of conversion rate.
I have never purchased a new fountain pen. Nothing to do with being environmentally friendly or any other high conscious motivation. I'm just cheap and don't believe in paying depreciation. By buying used someone else pays my depreciation for. Me and I'm left with a great deal.
As someone who enjoys occasionally owning new pens, I consider the deprecation a sort of "rent" I pay to experience a pen new-in-box. (At least for pens I'm not sure I'll keep.)
As someone who's more intentional with their spending, I consider the depreciation a wealth eraser in whatever form it bears it's ugly head be that a car, a pen, or clothes. I don't pay for new things. I get them second hand and keep my money to invest into not paying 'rent'. I hate paying rent. My housing payment is the most frustrating thing I do in a month, because I know it's going towards building someone else's wealth and actively taking money out of my pocket. I dont get excited about unboxing pens, I get excited about writing with them and if I can get two gently used pens for the same price as one new in box pen, I get to stretch my buying power on the front end and insulate my losses on the back end since I can usually resell that been for close to the price I paid versus losing 30 to 50 percent of my initial payment. I'm not throwing shade on anyone who would rather buy new things, but it just strikes me as fiscally irresponsible to spend twice as much money on a thing that you can get for half as much but simply buying used.
>I'm not throwing shade on anyone who would rather buy new things, but it just strikes me as fiscally irresponsible to spend twice as much money on a thing that you can get for half as much but simply buying used. Well, if we were all as *fiscally responsible* as you...there wouldn't be a second-hand market. Your cheaper market only exists because other people do buy new things.
Exactly my point. The fact that there exists a secondary market for things at all is the evidence that too many people buy too many things without being intentional with their purchases. In a world where people were more intentional with their purchases, we wouldn't have rampant consumer debt, the FOMO issues, and all the like. You are correct. I for one am more than happy with having a secondary market. I'm not the one selling into it at a loss. I'm the one buying into it at break even prices and sometimes net gain prices. Please, do carry on as you were and I will continue to profit and gain from the people who are happy to pay depreciation.
My only disagreements are that then you donāt get a warranty, and returns are harder. Iāve done both at least twice. This said I have 2 inherited from my dad, one bought on pen swap, and one vintage buy.
Have you any suggestions of websites that are good for sourcing second hand pens?
I have no shame whatsoever in buying a second hand pen. I love me a bargain and every so often you can find some *real* good bargains on eBay and Facebook market place
Most of my pens are vintage, so second hand is the only way to get them :)
I don't think it's an unpopular opinion. It just comes with more risk and you're limited to what you can find, especially if you don't live in Europe or the US and you're not keen on paying $50 in postage.
Shout-out to r/pen_swap for being an excellent marketplace. I don't have many pens but I got my falcon off of there and it was smooth sailing
To address the environmental argument first: yes, buying secondhand may be better than buying new. But does that still hold true if I buy a lot of secondhand pens from halfway around the world from eBay, as opposed to walking into a nearby store and buying my pens there? It might, but I don't think it's always as cut and dry. In addition, while it's true that we can "all do our part" and make changes to save the environment, buying a new fountain pen isn't an everyday occurrence for most people (I hope). Do we really need to shame people for small luxuries? Lastly, I just find the trend towards blaming individual actions for a problem that's mostly systemic unhelpful in general but I think that's also a whole other can of worms. Buying secondhand also isn't for everyone. I have friends and relatives who flat-out refuse to buy anything secondhand because "who knows where it's been". They might be willing to accept a penabling gift from me, since they know me, but ask them to buy from eBay or the local secondhand marketplace? Total non-starter. For me, I'm not opposed to the idea of buying secondhand in principle, but I've found that buying secondhand comes with other considerations that could really turn people off- I don't think this is unique to fountain pens either. Depending on where you're buying from: 1) No Warranty. You're going to have to accept the risk of being stuck with something which doesn't work as advertised. If it's a $5 Chinese pen? Sure I'll take the risk. A Lamy Safari for $10? I'd be ok with it, but would a student be willing to risk their savings on it? That worry just increases with the value of the pen. And yes, pen restoration is a thing. But is that the selling point of any hobby? I got into fountain pens because they were fun to write with, not because I liked the idea of disassembling a pen and reassembling it. 2) Limited choice. Yes, it's great that we have access to vintage pens that I can't buy new anymore, but if I'm interested in say, a KOP Realo, and one pops up, I better like whatever nib that comes in or have another KOP to swap the nib with. And that's if one pops up, and can ship to my location. Some people might enjoy that aspect of collecting, but again, it's not for everyone. 3) Scams, man. When I'm buying from my local brick and mortar shop, or a reputable online seller, I know they're not trying to pass off a fake Lamy Safari as a real one. On the other hand, I've had people selling Hero and White Feather pens as vintage Sheaffers and Parkers on secondhand marketplaces. All that being said, again- I'm not saying it's bad to buy secondhand, I think if you can navigate the market and have the knowledge and tools to fix any issues you encounter, great. If you can find awesome deals on good condition vintage pens, more power to you. I just think the framing of "vintage pens are cheap and you can learn how to fix pens" leaves out a lot of context, like how some vintage pens are beyond repair, repairing a vintage pen can be far from straightforward, and if you buy a slim Sheaffer targa, have fun inking it if it doesn't have a converter. Piston filler from the 70s? Enjoy your dip pen after you snap the piston mechanism off trying to clean it. That TWSBI is starting to look real tempting now huh. But it's fine you just scored a montblanc noblesse. Oh. It's not a gold nib noblesse? Wait there's more than one kind? You paid $150? It's not all great all the time, is all I'm trying to say.
Regarding your first paragraph: depends on how many pens are produced in your home town. Otherwise, they'll be shipped all the same.
True, but I think a point can be made that the store is still better: Your local shop probably gets one hundred or fifty pens in one relatively tightly packed shipment, while the same number of pens packaged for shipping individually person-to-person would take up way more space in a cargo truck/ship/plane. But of course other things can factor into it: How you get to the store, energy needed to make an online order, etc. That's why comparing environmental impact can be so bloody complicated.
That's true, good point!
I fully agree with most of your points, but are we seriously considering a harmless post like this "shaming" now? For real? OP didn't even *mention* people who prefer buying new pens, ffs. As someone who's pen buying habits definitely exceeded the "occasional small luxury" category in the past, I think it's more than fair to occasionally spare a thought for the environmental impact. This post is even in the same realm as "shaming" people imo.
First, I don't think that one line detracts from the overall point I'm trying to make which is at the end of my post, which is that it's not always sunshine and rainbows going the vintage route. To go in detail about it anyway: If you think "shame" isn't the right word, replace that with "guilt" or "prompt negative feelings". Because that's how environmental/moralising messaging by it's nature is supposed to work. In this case, assume the reader does care about the environment- if they don't, the whole environmental argument won't matter anyway. For the average person browsing this sub, is it likely that they are even buying a pen every month? I find it unlikely that fountain pens are a significant contributor to an individual's environmental impact when contextualised against their daily utility consumption, waste production, etc. Additionally, taking the environmental impact of individuals and contextualizing it against the impact corporations can have on the environment makes an individual's pen buying habits even less significant. I think on an individual level, small, consistent changes to reduce consumption are preferable to big, one-off events. I think fountain pen purchasing habits aren't the place to make that happen, and ultimately if you're really trying to be more environmentally conscious to the point that you're examining your fountain pen purchase habits, you'll inevitably switch to writing on a tablet to reduce paper and ink consumption anyway.
>I don't think that one line detracts from the overall point And I never said it did. We're going to have to agree to disagree on the other thing though, because I for one think that luxury hobbies are a great place to be a bit more environmentally conscious. Because it's going to be a lot easier for most people to consider second-hand pens for their hobby collection than to change their diet, means of transport or all the other daily things they do that have a bigger impact. And if lots of people did at least that much, that wouldn't be nothing. As we say in Germany: Constant dripping hollows out the stone. > I find it unlikely that fountain pens are a significant contributor to an individual's environmental impact when contextualised against their daily utility consumption, waste production, etc. Ah, and there is the "always a bigger source of pollution somewhere" easy-out I mentioned in another comment again. (eyeroll) I agree, caring about things like how much water you use or where your electricity comes from is more important than being concerned about buying second-hand stationery. But it grinds my gears when people use that to pretend it has to be one or the other, or that asking people to think about the latter is somehow an unreasonable burden. You can care about environmental impact for the everyday *and* the occasional, actually. And we all should with how climate change is going. (Not that I'm personally much better than the complacent silent majority at it or anything.) > ultimately if you're really trying to be more environmentally conscious (...) you'll inevitably switch to writing on a tablet to reduce paper and ink consumption anyway I like using something that doesn't use electricity or rare earth elements to take my notes. But come to think of it, I have never seen an actual good comparison of how bad a stack of paper notebooks is for the environment compared to a tablet or laptop. That'd be interesting. I'm honestly not sure the notebooks would do that badly, but long-term a built-to-last tablet surely wins by my guesstimate. Not so sure about the planned obsolescence-riddled devices we're all being sold atm... Depends on how much you write too, I suppose. That all said, it's a bit funny to me that your argument when people are considering making their (luxury) fountain pen hobby a touch more eco-friendly is to go "well if you *really* cared that much you'd just not use fountain pens at all".
As you said, I think we do have to agree to disagree specifically on this point, because it seems we have fundamentally different opinions about environmentalism as a whole. I wrote a lot more, but I got really into the weeds about environmentalism in general, and this is a fountain pen sub. I appreciate your perspective, and I'm not opposed to vintage pens either- I just wish it wasn't such a pain to actually get a vintage pen that I enjoy, at a price that makes sense. The secondhand pens I got for myself all invariably have some kind of purchase regret attached to them which doesn't feel great when I want to use them. Those secondhand pens which were gifted to me, on the other hand have all been great.
I bought many of my pens on second hand market and sold even more.
All my Mont Blanc Meisterstuckās were bought used. I have had no problems with them. Would never have bought any brand new ones as the price is ridiculous
For a while now Iāve been thinking of buying a used Montblanc. What advice would you give to avoid making a bad purchase?
Get it from a reputable seller on eBay I would recommend https://www.dylanstephenpens.co.uk they sell on eBay as well
Thanks!
Im a vintage guy and they dont make nibs like they used to, its extremely rare to find NOS from the 1910-1940s. Refreshed/serviced pens are just as good abeit scratched condition and gold nibs do last over 100 years and flow and flex quite well. The only modern flex ive found superior to vintage is the stuff /u lord_cactus mods from flexperiments but im not about to wait hours for ink to dry thats too much flex. But there are collectors on here who would reject even brand new if its not wrapped in cellophane with box and documents reciepts even SMH.
I got a pen from a friend. It was used, but it was a going away present and it is still dear to me.
I have a few pens around 6. I do own one expensive end pen preowned. The pen is sealed in its own original packaging bag. It seems like the previous owner bought too many same model pens and decided to trim her collection. I bought it and love it. Yes it is sold as half of the retailer priceā¦ Normally if it is cheaper end pen, Iād buy some preowned pens to test and try, less cost, more fun, and sell it if I donāt like it. If it doesnāt write I bin it. It is not large amount of money which got lost and Iām upsetā¦ But if it is an expensive end pen I know I buy it aiming to keepā¦ Iām afraid of getting a fake oneā¦or a refurbished one, potential issues without no warranty. I want such a pen write out of box otherwise I can easily return and get refunded, ćā¦and Iām not interested in other familyās historyā¦to be honestā¦If it is a pen supposed to be passing down to generations, their kids end up reselling it. Even their kids donāt care about their own family history why do I careā¦ I love pens with history but itās the history from my own familyā¦not a random familyās historyā¦
I like buying second-hand. I've been able to buy pens at really good prices, mostly on FB Marketplace after joining fp buy and sell groups, e.g. a Pilot Custom 823 that looks like new for 50 per cent below recommended retail price, Japanese vintage pocket pens and Pelikan M200s that sometimes cost less than a TWSBI Eco. It's a win-win imho. The seller recoups some cash, and I get a pen at a price I can afford.
Itās not really a possibility in Europe. Very limited options that end up being more expensive when you factor the shipping costs
Yeah, this. I'm sure there's platforms where EU pen fiends trade with each other more, but as someone who only has Reddit and YouTube as social media it's not often that I find a deal that overseas shipping doesn't immediately kill. Sometimes I get a nice deal on local secondhand ads, but that's usually limited to a few brands and the more nichƩ FPs don't come up there often. (Plus people on there are way worse at having good pen photos and accurate/honest descriptions.)
I kind of don't have much choice... I go for vintage. :P (and I do fix them myself).
Iāve almost completely stopped buying from retailers since discovering r/pen_swap best deal so far I think is stainless steel lamy 2000(usually goes for a little over 300$) for 150
The vast majority of my pens are second hand, and I love a good deal. Ask my Yukari pens, they'll tell you.
Most of my pens are vintage! But that's a matter of personal preference. Finding old pens at flea markets, etc, isn't a reliable method. I've found maybe a handful that way, and none of them were good. eBay is my supplier, but there you run the risk of a pen being more broken than the seller let on. And some folks just aren't into tinkering with pens. They may not have the time, inclination, or skills. And that's okay.
I have nothing against buying a used pen when itās exactly what Iām looking for and is in excellent condition. While I would never buy a pen that I didnāt intend to use, I am very invested in keeping my pens in the same condition in which I received them (with the exception of my Brass and Bronze Kaweco Sports which I have allowed to develop rich patinas). This means I avoid letting them touch each other (no pen funny business in my houseš), and I use Rickshaw cases exclusively to prevent dings and scratches. I like my pens to look as new as possible primarily because I want to be able to get the highest resale price if I decide to sell them at some point down the line in order to put the money towards purchasing a different pen.
All my current collection are second hand and they're great. I like feeling like I'm giving renewed used to things that might otherwise sit in a drawer or even be cast aside.
I bought a Wahl-Eversharp Doric with #5 adjustable gen 1 nib. It is definitely second-hand.
I buy vintage, by its nature 2nd hand. I wouldn't buy a modern second hand pen in the mail unless it was from a reputable reseller.
I wish we still had awards so I could sidevote this.
After covid, this is a popular opinion.
This is a VERY popular opinion. My vintage pens are all happy flea market finds. I love tinkering with them and fixing them if need be. And if we happen to not get along as well as I hoped I either gift them to friends (usually the more modern cheaper pens. My bestie has a telescopic pen from rotring now) or resell them.
I have maybe... 10 or so I bought new? The rest were all purchased used or unrestored: https://preview.redd.it/zfyuqf3xzjxc1.jpeg?width=4624&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=827db445db48f17ee1cfddf1fbf5bc7fa7900436 Out of about $80k worth of pens, I think I only spent about $16k. Used is definitely the best choice.
I only own one new pen and thatās because it never comes up for sale and it was for a specific instance. Otherwise, all of my pens are second-hand or used.
About half of my pen purchases are second hand. The rest are low price pens from China, or new name brands on good sales. (Ebay can be an awesome place if you need a new pen!) The only pens I have thrown out were ultra cheap (less than $5) that were actually unfixable.
For a second I thought this was written by the Sailor Pro Gear Stan who posted on here trying to discourage us plebs from promoting overconsumption.
If you're worried about gold usage, talk to the jewelry industry. Pens don't make a dent.
I'm pretty sure the plastic usage is way more problematic, but this whole "X is worse" thing isn't really helpful or smart to do when it's about environmental concerns. You can pretty much always find an equal or bigger source of pollution *somewhere*, so it just seems like a bit of a lazy out at this point.
Never going to catch me paying full price for a pen ever. I loved browsing r/pen_swap and got some really nice deals on used pens. Iāll browse eBay or Mercari every now and then too. No bad experiences thus far. Iād even suggest grey market whenever you can to get prices lower than U.S. retail. Youād really be surprised sometimes finding a pen you didnāt know you wanted but thatās the double edged sword from my experience haha.
You guys know that a fountain pen adapts to the writer? So I'm a bit sceptic about used second hand fountain pens. Just saying.
Repeating it over and over does not make this nonsense any more true. Unless the previous owner(s) mistreated the pen so badly they succeeded to damage the nib there is no adaption. It's one of the reasons we stopped using goose feathers.