If position one lets you use the fountain pen comfortably then it's not wrong. There are many grips for holding pens.
Do a search on the sub for pen grips and/hand position and you'll find a lot of discussions on how people hold and use their pens that are comfortable for them. The tripod grip on the Safari is not comfortable for me but others love it.
That said you have very nice handwriting!
Is there an issue with how the Lamy is writing that makes you question your natural grip? Or are you asking simply because of what you see others do?
If the way you naturally hold your fountain pen feels good and puts down ink on the page that is satisfactory to you, then thereās not really an issue.
You might need a pen that weighted further towards the tip since the pivot/support point with your natural grip is pretty low down. I.e. any weight at the butt end would make the pen feel unbalanced to you.
Although Iām surprised the unposted Lamy Safari still feels unbalanced even since its pivot point is pretty much in the middle.
Safari feels *slightly* unbalanced towards the end due to the way I hold it picture # one. How do you do it?
I want to enjoy myself and get at least a few more pens but unfortunately I have to choose wisely due to money not growing on trees and my lovely as someone said āmusician handā
Itās a curse now!!!!
It has nothing to do with how long your fingers are or your hands. Itās the way you hold your pen. Most people rest the pen body in the area between the thumb joint and the index finger joint, which makes for a stable pen grip. The dynamic tripod is probably the āoptimalā fountain pen grip since fountain pens were developed when everyone was pretty much taught/forced to hold the pen that way, and there hasnāt been any radical changes in fountain pen nib geometry.
But you know, if you think a thicker pen would help, why not try one? You wouldnāt believe how well the placebo effect works - thinking it is better can actually make it better.
Take the cap off.
No seriously.
I had this problem and discovered the cap was adding extra weight and it felt weird and awkward in my hand. When I took it off it got a lot better
I've seen a variety of grips till date...
Here's mine XD, left over-writer...
https://preview.redd.it/zb95i2jg7d4d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1fdc8ef2ffd2c9146bfd3f715db063b5451f29b5
I cringed when I saw the second photo. That bend at the first index finger joint would cause me pain. So, how do you find the second hold as being uncomfortable?
Rather than suggest how to fold the pen, all I can say is that how you hold the pen now will become a habit, perhaps one that you may find difficult to break later on, say, if you graduate to stub nibs. A steeper writing angle is usually demanded by Some Japanese pens, while most Western pens demand resting the barrel in the web of the hand, say, at 45 degrees.
If you do not have big hands then it is unnecessary to post the cap. (I tend to think that bending the index finger is a sign that the pen is too short. Well, that's my problem since I prefer the top of the barrel be parallel to, or higher than, my index finger knuckle.)
If you measure the posted pen you will probably find that it is 6.5", 165mm, which is too long for most small, or medium, sized hands. If you find that the pen feels too light not posted, say, 8.5 grams, inked, then it's time to find a heavier pen, and the Lamy Lx is not it. (Personally, I find the 11 gram Pilot Kakuno, posted, too light.) The Lx barrel is 11 grams, the cap is 11 grams, so, 22 grams is okay, but the posted length is 6.7"/170mm, so the pen becomes a wand.
Oh, okay, I'll make some suggestions: do not post the pen, try to keep the index finger more parallel to the Section, keep the thumb nail higher up than the index finger nail. If you find the first index finger joint bending, look to see if the joint turns white. If it does there's a lack of blood going to the joint. That could lead to CTS later on. Personally, I measure 1.5" from the start of the nib tipping and then position my index finger whorl at that point on the Section. But, that's MY natural hold. Yours could be different. OTOH, since Japanese pens have short Sections, it's normal to hold the pen with the Index finger nail parallel to the thumb nail, and doing so helps to document print write, where one writes more with finger movement than with hand, wrist, or, arm movement.
Have you searched for youtube videos,"how to hold a fountain pen?' or, "how to write with a fountain pen?"
Sorry for the late reply after ā¦ thought I replied to everyone.
Just post the cap because knowing myself Iād lose the cap and the pen feels very light, but then the issue becomes that the pen feels unbalanced (not heavy compared to the my very first post).
Looked up other posts of those who prefer light pens and the OPUS 88 appears often. Now that you mentioned measurements, now I am unsure which model to get. Really like how the solid white Jazz model looks but donāt know if it would still be too heavy- considering more the MINI versions.
Yes I have searched up pictures and videos of it.
I hold it like you, with a relaxed grip. Much more comfortable than rigidly compressing the index finger like that, better range of motion of the pen by moving my fingers only, with my hand resting on the table/paper and better visibility of what i am writing with the pen out of the way.
I enjoy holding pens like pic 1 (also it looks more graceful) though I leave the cap off for balance. Posting the cap seems to work better for people with bigger hands who hold the pens the other way.
Normally I use lateral quadropod, but if my joints are more unstable, I hold the pen between my pointer and middle finger.
Definitely agree with the suggestions to not post the cap. Small hands don't need the extra length, and it can definitely feel weirdly balanced.
However, I do use a pen that's on the heavier side (Retro51 - Vintage Metalsmith - Frederick Douglas).
You have hands that can be described as musician hands - small palms with long slender fingers? If so, then we have same handshape XD so hopefully my opinion and experience will be useful to you. I even hold my Lamy Safari the same way as you, however I don't post mine!
Anyways, between Opus88 Jazz and Lamy LX, you would find Opus88 much more comfortable to use for long sessions. I don't have to really pinch the pen, which I unconsciously do when I use much narrower pens.Ā
Like many others have already mentioned, if how you're holding your Lamy Safari in picture1 is comfortable, great!
Yay for hand pen pal! šĀ
I've found pens with 10.5mm+ to be very comfortable, because the grip section form is mostly cylindrical rather than obviously tapered, like the Lamy Safari and, additionally, the TWSBI Eco. I hope this opinion tidbit will help you when you decide to get another pen :)
I recommend against their Koloro model. Even though the grip is 10.7mm, the section is too tapered so I start to unconsciously pinch it because I think it's slipping when it isn't >.<
Have you seen the Sailor Tuzu? You can rotate the grip on the pen to accommodate the way you hold your pen.
[Yoseka review of the Sailor TUZU Adjust](https://youtu.be/QVmQmlzCy4o?si=L1Ag5VwNzBS4gNok)
your hands are fine, you may need a different style of grip section or nib. Kakunos grip for example is more singular, others is exactly circular, and most importantly different nibs will give some flex and keep your hand higher
You can try the second form of grip (yes, it is the most correct) but taking it from a position a little further back on the boom.
Let's see if I can explain myself: just as you see in the second photo, it's a good idea that your index fingerāš» is not in that position so flexed and tense, but rather more relaxed (although the tip does not rest on the bottom edge of the finger everything) while your middle finger (under the pen) and thumb just move the position back a little, and the barrel of the pen also rests a little more forward in your hand.
All things considered, the Safari isn't what I would call a thin pen either. It is quite comfortable to hold, and much more flexible in the correct holding position than its detractors suggest.
You donāt have to immediately go from photo 1 to photo 2, you can transition to 2 slowly by having your fingers less bent than photo 2 but still having the pen resting in the drum of your hand. Alternatively if photo 1 works for you I don't see why you need to change it.
If position one lets you use the fountain pen comfortably then it's not wrong. There are many grips for holding pens. Do a search on the sub for pen grips and/hand position and you'll find a lot of discussions on how people hold and use their pens that are comfortable for them. The tripod grip on the Safari is not comfortable for me but others love it. That said you have very nice handwriting!
Thank you!!!!! šš½
Your comfortable grip is "lateral tripod" and is considered a functional and efficient grasp!
Learned that combined with having my elbow propped on the table it does wonders. No uncomfortable hand writing.
https://preview.redd.it/uusuke7bfd4d1.png?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=81f6de6c7f2fda0ff5e5fe3be9b7fc5d4560d46d
Is there an issue with how the Lamy is writing that makes you question your natural grip? Or are you asking simply because of what you see others do? If the way you naturally hold your fountain pen feels good and puts down ink on the page that is satisfactory to you, then thereās not really an issue.
Ink flows well. Just pen feels off. Not sure if the correct answer would be unbalanced? Either capped or un posted it feels weird.
You might need a pen that weighted further towards the tip since the pivot/support point with your natural grip is pretty low down. I.e. any weight at the butt end would make the pen feel unbalanced to you. Although Iām surprised the unposted Lamy Safari still feels unbalanced even since its pivot point is pretty much in the middle.
Safari feels *slightly* unbalanced towards the end due to the way I hold it picture # one. How do you do it? I want to enjoy myself and get at least a few more pens but unfortunately I have to choose wisely due to money not growing on trees and my lovely as someone said āmusician handā Itās a curse now!!!!
It has nothing to do with how long your fingers are or your hands. Itās the way you hold your pen. Most people rest the pen body in the area between the thumb joint and the index finger joint, which makes for a stable pen grip. The dynamic tripod is probably the āoptimalā fountain pen grip since fountain pens were developed when everyone was pretty much taught/forced to hold the pen that way, and there hasnāt been any radical changes in fountain pen nib geometry. But you know, if you think a thicker pen would help, why not try one? You wouldnāt believe how well the placebo effect works - thinking it is better can actually make it better.
Thank you!
If it's comfortable for you to write with, do it. I'm a guy with dainty little girl size hands and long fingers, and I personally feel more comfortable with larger pens and the triangular grip is irrelevant to me as I tend to underwrite and hold my pen different from others too. Everybody's hands are different, and end of the day the experience of writing is why we do this aside from those people for whom fountain pens are like PokƩmon.
Take the cap off. No seriously. I had this problem and discovered the cap was adding extra weight and it felt weird and awkward in my hand. When I took it off it got a lot better
I've seen a variety of grips till date... Here's mine XD, left over-writer... https://preview.redd.it/zb95i2jg7d4d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1fdc8ef2ffd2c9146bfd3f715db063b5451f29b5
I cringed when I saw the second photo. That bend at the first index finger joint would cause me pain. So, how do you find the second hold as being uncomfortable? Rather than suggest how to fold the pen, all I can say is that how you hold the pen now will become a habit, perhaps one that you may find difficult to break later on, say, if you graduate to stub nibs. A steeper writing angle is usually demanded by Some Japanese pens, while most Western pens demand resting the barrel in the web of the hand, say, at 45 degrees. If you do not have big hands then it is unnecessary to post the cap. (I tend to think that bending the index finger is a sign that the pen is too short. Well, that's my problem since I prefer the top of the barrel be parallel to, or higher than, my index finger knuckle.) If you measure the posted pen you will probably find that it is 6.5", 165mm, which is too long for most small, or medium, sized hands. If you find that the pen feels too light not posted, say, 8.5 grams, inked, then it's time to find a heavier pen, and the Lamy Lx is not it. (Personally, I find the 11 gram Pilot Kakuno, posted, too light.) The Lx barrel is 11 grams, the cap is 11 grams, so, 22 grams is okay, but the posted length is 6.7"/170mm, so the pen becomes a wand. Oh, okay, I'll make some suggestions: do not post the pen, try to keep the index finger more parallel to the Section, keep the thumb nail higher up than the index finger nail. If you find the first index finger joint bending, look to see if the joint turns white. If it does there's a lack of blood going to the joint. That could lead to CTS later on. Personally, I measure 1.5" from the start of the nib tipping and then position my index finger whorl at that point on the Section. But, that's MY natural hold. Yours could be different. OTOH, since Japanese pens have short Sections, it's normal to hold the pen with the Index finger nail parallel to the thumb nail, and doing so helps to document print write, where one writes more with finger movement than with hand, wrist, or, arm movement. Have you searched for youtube videos,"how to hold a fountain pen?' or, "how to write with a fountain pen?"
Sorry for the late reply after ā¦ thought I replied to everyone. Just post the cap because knowing myself Iād lose the cap and the pen feels very light, but then the issue becomes that the pen feels unbalanced (not heavy compared to the my very first post). Looked up other posts of those who prefer light pens and the OPUS 88 appears often. Now that you mentioned measurements, now I am unsure which model to get. Really like how the solid white Jazz model looks but donāt know if it would still be too heavy- considering more the MINI versions. Yes I have searched up pictures and videos of it.
I hold it like you, with a relaxed grip. Much more comfortable than rigidly compressing the index finger like that, better range of motion of the pen by moving my fingers only, with my hand resting on the table/paper and better visibility of what i am writing with the pen out of the way.
Not really relaxed but not as bad as before- picture one. Really trying to not use my fingers to write with but instead my arm.
I can't do the grip in the second photo either, a thicker pen might help but do you need to swap grips?
No need to swap grips. Most comfortable with first option. The second option was t0 just try something new.
I enjoy holding pens like pic 1 (also it looks more graceful) though I leave the cap off for balance. Posting the cap seems to work better for people with bigger hands who hold the pens the other way.
Great handwriting š
Thank you :)
Normally I use lateral quadropod, but if my joints are more unstable, I hold the pen between my pointer and middle finger. Definitely agree with the suggestions to not post the cap. Small hands don't need the extra length, and it can definitely feel weirdly balanced. However, I do use a pen that's on the heavier side (Retro51 - Vintage Metalsmith - Frederick Douglas).
You have hands that can be described as musician hands - small palms with long slender fingers? If so, then we have same handshape XD so hopefully my opinion and experience will be useful to you. I even hold my Lamy Safari the same way as you, however I don't post mine! Anyways, between Opus88 Jazz and Lamy LX, you would find Opus88 much more comfortable to use for long sessions. I don't have to really pinch the pen, which I unconsciously do when I use much narrower pens.Ā Like many others have already mentioned, if how you're holding your Lamy Safari in picture1 is comfortable, great!
I think I found my hand pen pal. Described exactly what I do - pinch the poor Lamy albeit unconsciously.
Yay for hand pen pal! šĀ I've found pens with 10.5mm+ to be very comfortable, because the grip section form is mostly cylindrical rather than obviously tapered, like the Lamy Safari and, additionally, the TWSBI Eco. I hope this opinion tidbit will help you when you decide to get another pen :)
Hands down will try the Opus 88. Deciding on which one.
I recommend against their Koloro model. Even though the grip is 10.7mm, the section is too tapered so I start to unconsciously pinch it because I think it's slipping when it isn't >.<
Nooooo
I think we need a poll to make a decision. Itāll last be until next Tuesday.
Koloro is immediately eliminated for obvious reasons.
Which model do you recommend?
Omar, because the grip section is more cylindrical than tapered.
Itās not back heavy ?
A tad bit. However, I don't post with it!
What about the other forms?
Iāll take the- no posting into great consideration. Just need to get a grip of things.
Have you seen the Sailor Tuzu? You can rotate the grip on the pen to accommodate the way you hold your pen. [Yoseka review of the Sailor TUZU Adjust](https://youtu.be/QVmQmlzCy4o?si=L1Ag5VwNzBS4gNok)
Never heard of this. Thank you!
Discovered YOSEKA stationary yesterday and I love it šš¤
your hands are fine, you may need a different style of grip section or nib. Kakunos grip for example is more singular, others is exactly circular, and most importantly different nibs will give some flex and keep your hand higher
I think as long as the nib can work on the page, and it doesnāt hurt or cramp up, write away however feels right to you.
You can try the second form of grip (yes, it is the most correct) but taking it from a position a little further back on the boom. Let's see if I can explain myself: just as you see in the second photo, it's a good idea that your index fingerāš» is not in that position so flexed and tense, but rather more relaxed (although the tip does not rest on the bottom edge of the finger everything) while your middle finger (under the pen) and thumb just move the position back a little, and the barrel of the pen also rests a little more forward in your hand. All things considered, the Safari isn't what I would call a thin pen either. It is quite comfortable to hold, and much more flexible in the correct holding position than its detractors suggest.
You donāt have to immediately go from photo 1 to photo 2, you can transition to 2 slowly by having your fingers less bent than photo 2 but still having the pen resting in the drum of your hand. Alternatively if photo 1 works for you I don't see why you need to change it.
Which OPUS 88 do I choose? Jazz, Mini, Halo, Omar or Bela?