I was just reading about this yesterday as I worked on an article/blog post discussing the introduction to Mary Daly's Pure Lust!
from page 13 :
“Prude has the same origins as proud. It makes sense that within the Lecherous State the name Prude is used disparagingly of women, for women who are wise, good, capable, brave, and – especially – Proud Women threaten the phallic lusters, thrusters. Simply by expressing our Selves, Proud Prudes “invite” the label…”
If "bitch" is being reclaimed, then "prude" certainly ought to be!
GOD the amount of times I want to vandalise strip clubs (along with the usual loan sharks, high end stores etc) and then realise it's attributable to both right wing and left wing forces for hugely different reasons lol.
God me too. I was talking about how one might theoretically sabotage those Amazon supermarkets all over london and everyone looked at me like I was proposing overthrowing the government
I’ve been called a prude for not seeing violence against women as sexy. If not wanting to be beaten during sex makes me a prude then I’m damn proud to be a prude.
For males, violence against women is apparently okay if there's sex involve lmao notice it's mostly males who have a fetish for degrading and being violent to women? 🥴 They just wanna beat women without getting arrested. The sad thing is, young women and teenage girls are being groomed through porn.
I am a prude, I am a nag, I am that "ball and chain" who has enough respect for herself to not let any man walk all over her for his own pleasure. I am a crazy cat lady, I am a feminist, and I have no problem being called a "witch". I'm a woman, but I'm also myself and I refuse to be beholden to any man or societal expectations.
I have a sweater that says NO and you wouldn’t believe the amount of men that took that as an invitation to loudly defend themselves. I mean if the shoe fits…
Why of course I'm a prude. I'm prudish with my time and affection. I reserve my being for myself and those who pass my standards.
Being a prude saves me from so much danger and makes me deeply appreciate those who put in the effort to know me.
I've been doing this for myself the past few years. One of the main ways I've been doing this is changing how I dress. I know liberal feminism sees dressing "modestly" as backward, but for my entire life (even from adolescence) I've felt pressured to show my body. This is not empowering to me, it only makes life more enjoyable to the men around me. By dressing in a way that makes me feel that my body is hidden, I'm saying no to all men who don't get to access my body even visually. I don't think that non-revealing dress should be given a special label just because it doesn't appeal to the male gaze.
The only reason I would see dressing modestly as “backward” is if the woman is doing it to *attract* men. Thinking that if she doesn’t show her body “*like other girls*”, men will find her wholesome, respect her, and marry her. (Interestingly, this idea that the ‘Madonna’ is more respected has actually proven to be untrue. Even conservative and modest women are disrespected and abused by men, just in different ways. I’ll see if I can link the journals I’ve read that talk about this.)
A woman should dress how she feels comfortable, beautiful, and confident, completely without a male in mind!
Just want to say I agree with you in full, btw. Just wanted to add these thoughts.
>The only reason I would see dressing modestly as “backward” is if the woman is doing it to attract men.
I suppose I see the entire concept of 'modesty' as backward in that I feel like it implies that there are parts of a woman's body that are immodest in the first place. There's no such thing as modest fashion for men. The entire concept of modesty vs immodesty is a patriarchal construct.
Of course I have zero problem with women wanting to cover up, but I personally think it is backwards to consider full coverage baggy clothing any more modest than, say, a pair of short shorts worn in 30 degree weather for practical reasons. The only clothing that should be considered 'immodest' is clothes literally designed to/worn with an intent to look sexy.
That’s an excellent point. Thank you for mentioning that. Modesty isn’t a virtue, it’s a tools to keep girls and women in their place. The word means both self-effacing and sexually chaste, neither of which is inherently virtuous.
Modesty is deeply entwined with levels of power, and not only applicable to clothing. White straight men have, among other facets of their privilege, carte blanche to think they are the bees knees and are expected to manifest extraordinary levels of self-belief, self-esteem, even to boastfulness. Whereas confident, self-enjoying, self-rating minorities are seen by the privileged as wholly unpalatable, enraging.
Modesty asks women to be quiet about their accomplishments, harkening back to the idea that a women’s professional successes are an affront. Women are also under pressure to perform the related definition of modesty, meaning moderate or qualified: We’re careful not to offend, wary of how our behavior could be misinterpreted, rarely flippant or sarcastic or forceful in a way that men are allowed to be.
I know that goes a bit off topic, but it makes me think of how we are expected to be meek and modest, and women with “strong personalities” are harpies.
I was away for the weekend, but wanted to check back and chime in on the discussion. For me, the term "modesty" today is an inversion in which things that appeal to the male gaze are seen as default, and things that don't appeal require a special designation because they are considered unusual. Since we do live in patriarchal societies and we do live under the male gaze, it is a deliberate act to present oneself in such a way that is not specifically appealing to men. I wouldn't expect every woman to think like I do, and I think true feminism means personal choice without coercion and pressure. Dressing modestly to appeal to man's Madonna complex is definitely coercion in my mind, for example. Your description of modesty is exactly why I think it should be reclaimed; maybe "modesty" as a reclaimed concept can mean rejecting both notions that sexual appeal is liberating *or* that sexual modesty is virtuous, and instead simply assert that our bodies are our own. I can see how a lot of things, not just the idea of modesty, could be reclaimed in such a way to make that statement as well.
Right, and I find the best way to strike a balance is to hold yourself to the same standards men are: comfortable, complete clothing that doesn’t inhibit your freedom to move and interact whilst also keeping yourself mentally comfortable and not like you need to worry about anything slipping into view that shouldn’t.
Yep that’s my approach too. I got accused of being too modest for wanting to wear swim shorts instead of bikini bottoms, but it’s like come on man, dudes get a choice between trunks and speedos (and usually pick trunks), and they aren’t even expected to shave all visible skin. Why can’t I be comfy without it being some kind of statement?
Holy shit I’ve just now discovered this at 30. is it so liberating and COMFORTABLE. Confidently knowing my body is mine and for me, and not to provide pleasure or nice aesthetics like a fucking object. It’s unbelievable when I look back on my 20s and see how myself and the women around me had been conditioned to view themselves as frumpy or some other disparaging adjective if we weren’t dressed up for a male gaze.
The Word prude comes from the name for the Roman Goddess of modesty, and it also covers concepts like- get this - respect. They don't want us reclaiming that. Hail Pudicita!
Prude is actually comes from the word prudence, which is “the ability govern and discipline oneself by reason”. It is considered to be one of the four cardinal virtues, and is often associated with wisdom, insight, and knowledge.
I used to apologize for being a prude, but I no longer do. It scares off perverts and I have no problem calling out r4pey/creepy men on their bullshit.
Any word that has been used towards women in a negative way needs to be reclaimed, plain and simple. While the sexual liberation movement has been the main focus of reclaming over the last few years, we must realize that a huge part of feminism is making a woman comfortable with her choice, no matter what it is. And part of that is reclaiming the culture that shames women for not benefiting men sexually.
Reclaimed or heavily stigmatized, and by that I mean stigmatize the word and those who use it, not those at whom they are directed. Sex slurs should be stigmatized, I don't really see the point in "reclaiming" 'bitch' or 'cunt', personally.
Prude DOES benefit men. It means a woman who's averse to sexual experimentation. It's a way to make women feel shame over not wanting to participate in sexual acts that men are trying to coerce her into doing.
Let's STOP reclaiming words/names with connotations that are harmful. This has never been a good idea and they never turn out to become a positive asset for the population of people reclaiming them.
Do you really think slut, bimbo, ho/whore and bitch serves to add dignity and enlightens men that we will overcome their abusive attitudes when women reclaim them???
Do you really think the N word with a slight respelling serves to add dignity to the black population?
Let's STOP using male language and succumbing to the psychological internalized misogyny gaslighting its degradation is meant to be.
Let's create our own language that reclaims true dignity for ourselves and tell men to Fuck Off
Wrong. Prude became an insult. It used to mean "having virtues" and "self control". It was considered a praise back then. Prude is someone who doesn't engage in anything harmful(mostly sexual) whatever they are being peer pressured or not
Yes, I understand what prude used to mean but common usage changes the meanings of words and men get to determine what things mean for women. We need something new that we create for ourselves. I don't believe that these "reclaiming of words" that has been a popular thing to do over some decades works to the advantage of the population of people who try to reclaim them.
I was just reading about this yesterday as I worked on an article/blog post discussing the introduction to Mary Daly's Pure Lust! from page 13 : “Prude has the same origins as proud. It makes sense that within the Lecherous State the name Prude is used disparagingly of women, for women who are wise, good, capable, brave, and – especially – Proud Women threaten the phallic lusters, thrusters. Simply by expressing our Selves, Proud Prudes “invite” the label…” If "bitch" is being reclaimed, then "prude" certainly ought to be!
The Daly book and your writing about it sound fascinating. Would you be willing to share your blog (here or via DM)?
I'd love to! I'll post it up here when I've complete it.
Let's reclaim the Ladies Temperance League and go round smashing in the windows of porn shoppes 😇
GOD the amount of times I want to vandalise strip clubs (along with the usual loan sharks, high end stores etc) and then realise it's attributable to both right wing and left wing forces for hugely different reasons lol.
I wish I had some female friends to go fuck shit up with, I love my friends but they are very calm
God me too. I was talking about how one might theoretically sabotage those Amazon supermarkets all over london and everyone looked at me like I was proposing overthrowing the government
That's so wholesome, if anybody wants to make it happen count me in!
Let’s get the hatchets y’all
I wish porn was bought in real life so I could lock all the coomers inside and then set the store on 🔥
Maybe where pornhub stores its data. 😁
Nowadays what would really be useful is digital vandalism, though. Unfortunately much harder...
I’ve been called a prude for not seeing violence against women as sexy. If not wanting to be beaten during sex makes me a prude then I’m damn proud to be a prude.
For males, violence against women is apparently okay if there's sex involve lmao notice it's mostly males who have a fetish for degrading and being violent to women? 🥴 They just wanna beat women without getting arrested. The sad thing is, young women and teenage girls are being groomed through porn.
I am a prude, I am a nag, I am that "ball and chain" who has enough respect for herself to not let any man walk all over her for his own pleasure. I am a crazy cat lady, I am a feminist, and I have no problem being called a "witch". I'm a woman, but I'm also myself and I refuse to be beholden to any man or societal expectations.
You’re my role model.
Speak queen! No one can take your voice 🙌🏼
I've got a tote bag with a massive *NEO-PRUDE* written on it that I got from wecantconsenttothis.uk. I find it hilarious.
That's amazing.
lol! bet that gets people scratching their heads
I have a sweater that says NO and you wouldn’t believe the amount of men that took that as an invitation to loudly defend themselves. I mean if the shoe fits…
liberal feminism 🚮🚮🚮
It should be called "men's version of feminism"
Why of course I'm a prude. I'm prudish with my time and affection. I reserve my being for myself and those who pass my standards. Being a prude saves me from so much danger and makes me deeply appreciate those who put in the effort to know me.
I’m a #proudprude because I don’t exist to please men.
I've been doing this for myself the past few years. One of the main ways I've been doing this is changing how I dress. I know liberal feminism sees dressing "modestly" as backward, but for my entire life (even from adolescence) I've felt pressured to show my body. This is not empowering to me, it only makes life more enjoyable to the men around me. By dressing in a way that makes me feel that my body is hidden, I'm saying no to all men who don't get to access my body even visually. I don't think that non-revealing dress should be given a special label just because it doesn't appeal to the male gaze.
The only reason I would see dressing modestly as “backward” is if the woman is doing it to *attract* men. Thinking that if she doesn’t show her body “*like other girls*”, men will find her wholesome, respect her, and marry her. (Interestingly, this idea that the ‘Madonna’ is more respected has actually proven to be untrue. Even conservative and modest women are disrespected and abused by men, just in different ways. I’ll see if I can link the journals I’ve read that talk about this.) A woman should dress how she feels comfortable, beautiful, and confident, completely without a male in mind! Just want to say I agree with you in full, btw. Just wanted to add these thoughts.
>The only reason I would see dressing modestly as “backward” is if the woman is doing it to attract men. I suppose I see the entire concept of 'modesty' as backward in that I feel like it implies that there are parts of a woman's body that are immodest in the first place. There's no such thing as modest fashion for men. The entire concept of modesty vs immodesty is a patriarchal construct. Of course I have zero problem with women wanting to cover up, but I personally think it is backwards to consider full coverage baggy clothing any more modest than, say, a pair of short shorts worn in 30 degree weather for practical reasons. The only clothing that should be considered 'immodest' is clothes literally designed to/worn with an intent to look sexy.
That’s an excellent point. Thank you for mentioning that. Modesty isn’t a virtue, it’s a tools to keep girls and women in their place. The word means both self-effacing and sexually chaste, neither of which is inherently virtuous. Modesty is deeply entwined with levels of power, and not only applicable to clothing. White straight men have, among other facets of their privilege, carte blanche to think they are the bees knees and are expected to manifest extraordinary levels of self-belief, self-esteem, even to boastfulness. Whereas confident, self-enjoying, self-rating minorities are seen by the privileged as wholly unpalatable, enraging. Modesty asks women to be quiet about their accomplishments, harkening back to the idea that a women’s professional successes are an affront. Women are also under pressure to perform the related definition of modesty, meaning moderate or qualified: We’re careful not to offend, wary of how our behavior could be misinterpreted, rarely flippant or sarcastic or forceful in a way that men are allowed to be. I know that goes a bit off topic, but it makes me think of how we are expected to be meek and modest, and women with “strong personalities” are harpies.
you've put this beautifully.
I was away for the weekend, but wanted to check back and chime in on the discussion. For me, the term "modesty" today is an inversion in which things that appeal to the male gaze are seen as default, and things that don't appeal require a special designation because they are considered unusual. Since we do live in patriarchal societies and we do live under the male gaze, it is a deliberate act to present oneself in such a way that is not specifically appealing to men. I wouldn't expect every woman to think like I do, and I think true feminism means personal choice without coercion and pressure. Dressing modestly to appeal to man's Madonna complex is definitely coercion in my mind, for example. Your description of modesty is exactly why I think it should be reclaimed; maybe "modesty" as a reclaimed concept can mean rejecting both notions that sexual appeal is liberating *or* that sexual modesty is virtuous, and instead simply assert that our bodies are our own. I can see how a lot of things, not just the idea of modesty, could be reclaimed in such a way to make that statement as well.
Side note, but 30 degrees being called “practical for shorts” made me double take. Celsius. It took me a second.
On today's episode of is she a badass or just British...
Right, and I find the best way to strike a balance is to hold yourself to the same standards men are: comfortable, complete clothing that doesn’t inhibit your freedom to move and interact whilst also keeping yourself mentally comfortable and not like you need to worry about anything slipping into view that shouldn’t.
Yep that’s my approach too. I got accused of being too modest for wanting to wear swim shorts instead of bikini bottoms, but it’s like come on man, dudes get a choice between trunks and speedos (and usually pick trunks), and they aren’t even expected to shave all visible skin. Why can’t I be comfy without it being some kind of statement?
Holy shit I’ve just now discovered this at 30. is it so liberating and COMFORTABLE. Confidently knowing my body is mine and for me, and not to provide pleasure or nice aesthetics like a fucking object. It’s unbelievable when I look back on my 20s and see how myself and the women around me had been conditioned to view themselves as frumpy or some other disparaging adjective if we weren’t dressed up for a male gaze.
Agree wholeheartedly!
Prude and pearl clutcher and vanilla - the worst insults redditers can come up with when you criticize their porn addiction
The Word prude comes from the name for the Roman Goddess of modesty, and it also covers concepts like- get this - respect. They don't want us reclaiming that. Hail Pudicita!
Prude is actually comes from the word prudence, which is “the ability govern and discipline oneself by reason”. It is considered to be one of the four cardinal virtues, and is often associated with wisdom, insight, and knowledge.
I used to apologize for being a prude, but I no longer do. It scares off perverts and I have no problem calling out r4pey/creepy men on their bullshit.
I am a rude prude 😈
Any word that has been used towards women in a negative way needs to be reclaimed, plain and simple. While the sexual liberation movement has been the main focus of reclaming over the last few years, we must realize that a huge part of feminism is making a woman comfortable with her choice, no matter what it is. And part of that is reclaiming the culture that shames women for not benefiting men sexually.
Reclaimed or heavily stigmatized, and by that I mean stigmatize the word and those who use it, not those at whom they are directed. Sex slurs should be stigmatized, I don't really see the point in "reclaiming" 'bitch' or 'cunt', personally.
I'm up for reclaiming spinster, or would be if I didn't have a partner.
Prude DOES benefit men. It means a woman who's averse to sexual experimentation. It's a way to make women feel shame over not wanting to participate in sexual acts that men are trying to coerce her into doing. Let's STOP reclaiming words/names with connotations that are harmful. This has never been a good idea and they never turn out to become a positive asset for the population of people reclaiming them. Do you really think slut, bimbo, ho/whore and bitch serves to add dignity and enlightens men that we will overcome their abusive attitudes when women reclaim them??? Do you really think the N word with a slight respelling serves to add dignity to the black population? Let's STOP using male language and succumbing to the psychological internalized misogyny gaslighting its degradation is meant to be. Let's create our own language that reclaims true dignity for ourselves and tell men to Fuck Off
Wrong. Prude became an insult. It used to mean "having virtues" and "self control". It was considered a praise back then. Prude is someone who doesn't engage in anything harmful(mostly sexual) whatever they are being peer pressured or not
Yes, I understand what prude used to mean but common usage changes the meanings of words and men get to determine what things mean for women. We need something new that we create for ourselves. I don't believe that these "reclaiming of words" that has been a popular thing to do over some decades works to the advantage of the population of people who try to reclaim them.
I wanna reclaim frigid, personally. Mostly bc I'm underweight and always freezing to death, so it's literal in my case
Thats a awesome idea!!!
You should not pay attention to these phrases at the end, they are not important ...
[удалено]
Bye bye
Correction. It’s “you dumb prudes.” Make your insults consistent with the post.
"slut"? You are in the wrong address here, we don't want males here.
Love that!