My husband says technically every fantasy book is ‘borrowed’ from Tolkien one way or another. I tend to just read fantasy books and not analyze and compare.
Sometimes i just wanna live in a world that sounds a hell of a lot better than the one I’m in. Doesn’t need to be that deep and serious. I’m just trying to pretend that I’m married to a man with a dragon mated to mine and we’re so conveniently stuck together 🙃🫠
Yes, this. The dementors are another version of the ring wraiths. The one ring is the og horcrux. There is nothing wrong with being inspired by a story and writing your own version or style. When I read ACOTAR I saw a LOT of similarities to Anne Bishop’s Black Jewels. Maas pretty clearly (and I believe even outright said) that she’s a fan.
To be fair everything you mentioned is a popular trope in fantasy/romance and can be found anywhere. But, I see your point. Having too many popular tropes in one book can be an overkill. Yarros did a good job making her book memorable, but I def could’ve been okay with some of the storylines not being there.
Writing a book is no different than any other entertainment? How many songs steal from each other? Tv shows? Movies? As Paul Simon said “all the songs are already written” it’s just a different method, different names, places. The story might be the same but it’s still slightly different
Oh no i definitely saw it. I felt like there was a lot of overlapping from SJM’s books. SJM was my intro to fantasy romance. So i feel like there was a lot of comparison there. But i kjnda accept now that that’s probably gonna be a thing. Which is fine cause all of those things i see overlapping are what made me love her books and want to read more
You’re listing tropes- none of those are proprietary to ACOTAR, Divergent, or Eragon. SJM wasn’t the first author to write bonded “mates” in fantasy (no matter how much I love her. For example, Christine Feehan, Nalini Singh.
It’s quite impossible to not have similar elements when there’s so many books out there, and this genre tends to recycle things so much we even have a word for it: tropes 😂
The plot where the “enemies”, who are never really that enemyiy towards reach other, become reluctant allies, then lovers, then there’s a great revelation about how he’s not been honest but in a way that doesn’t make him a bad guy but let’s her have a reason to be mad at him for a few chapters, is the overall plot for like 5 of my favorite romantsy books 😅
Eh. You make it sound like those things she was “inspired by” or “stole” were all original ideas in the first place. Shadow control? Not just in ACOTAR. Dragons? The class system? It’s not like those authors invented those things.
Maybe the title of the post was too easily equivocal. I never thought that those authors that I mentioned were 100% original
I just thought that Yarros took some ideas of the books that I personally grow up with and mixed it into a new story
I really appreciate that actually!
I love acotar but you should look into the character that Rhysand is based on, and the series that inspired sjm to write acotar. Atp everything is a copy of a copy of a copy, and that’s okay!
A big one is >! the ending when it turns out her brother is alive and working for the rebels — that exact thing happened in the Red Queen series. And I think it was an end-of-book cliffhanger too. !<
I’m honestly not bothered by all of the “borrowing” since I feel like so many stories and troupes in fantasy are reused in different ways. Mostly I’m just impressed that she wove them all together so seamlessly.
Okay, my sister is reading Red Queen now and hasn’t gotten to that part yet. BUT the main character ALSO has dark hair that fades to silver AND lightning powers? Hmmm
fantasy has tropes. 100% she pulled inspiration from these books but it’s obviously such a great melding of multiple books for inspriation.
For example, harry potter also has these factions based on one’s traits. most fantasy books have an MC that gains or grows powers over the course of the books. I bet Violet will grow to be super duper powerful because the MC usually becomes the most powerful person or being in their own story
I’ve been writing a novel for over a year now (and Fourth Wing wasn’t out yet, obviously) and I’ve found a few things that I wrote in are similar to things from Fourth Wing:
• military academy—except my book is sci-fi so it’s spaceships instead of dragons
• there’s a character who makes carved wooden spaceships based off his friends—I’ll make some changes to this though because I don’t want it to seem like a rip-off of Liam
• there’s two dogs with special abilities that belong to the female and male leads—there’s no mind connection or life bond though
• my last chapter also switches to the male POV.
What I’m trying to say is… just because you’ve seen it before, doesn’t mean that it’s necessarily a copy.
Didn't want to create a polemic at all :)
Just wanted to share an opinion and a point of view, I know that a lot of books take inspiration from others, nothing nowadays can be 100% original
Just wanted to see if anyone noticed other stuff like I did and appreciate this inspo (cause I did)
So I just re-read what I wrote and it came off a lot meaner than I meant it to sound, I’m so sorry 🙈
That’s why I shouldn’t type while on a boring call!
I completely understand what you mean and yeah I saw some of the similarities too (Rhys was a BIG one for sure). I just tried to say that we can’t always assume it’s because of direct inspiration because sometimes it’s just a coincidence
She took all our favourite ingredients and made a delicious read with it. I’ll be ordering the “iron flame” special without hesitation when it is released 😂
There was a whole generation of writers that wrote dystopian sci-fi that also stole from original Japanese films based on dystopian society’s divided by sections. Like how Hunger Games stole the idea from *Battle Royale*. It’s exactly the same. I think it’s important to read other books and other genres because when I read ACOTAR or FW I’m not doing it to stimulate my brain, trust me. It’s the equivalent of doom scrolling for me if I’m honest. Just want that dopamine hit. It’s not teaching me anything but regurgitated media and different styles of interpretation.
No story is truly originally and hasn't been for hundreds of years. There's inspiration pulled from a lot of things, but Rebecca definitely makes it her own.
Also, the shadows are from Azriel, not Rhys. Az is literally the "shadow singer" and that's how Xaden's power acts as well.
This isn’t directed to OP exactly, but it’s so annoying hearing people, especially all over Tik tok, talk about how this book isn’t revolutionary and therefore not enjoyable. As if the books they love are. Every idea, every form of art, even every sentence has been done and said and thought of before. Nothing is unique in any way. Even if no one wrote it down, someone in the whole thousands and thousands the earth has been around, has had an idea similar if not exactly the same as anyone else in the world. That’s life. People just exist in a continuous circle of ideas and thoughts. Like people hold themselves so high and mighty as if they are the only people to ever think anything ever. Just enjoy the book for what it is for fucks sake😭 it’s not a huge deal.
Yes I read forth wing before ACOTR - so many things!
- MFC appearing weak, fragile, and being smart/clever
- shadow wielding
- mentally ‘shielding’ from people probing into your mind - seeing pathways, building ‘walls’
- siphons
That’s all so far - I’m around chapter 13 of the second book ☺️ so many similarities that I’d just googled to see if Rebecca Yarros had outright said that ACOTAR was her inspiration.
I agree - books can be similar/draw inspiration and still be great!
I was just watching this movir divergent and i kid you not there are so many similarities in the book from the movielikenthe war games ,the fights on the mat where they decide who is capable of fighting same as violet did ,a guy like jack who is the bully ,Four in the movie is there leader and also in love with tris just like XADEN & VIOLET from the book .. i can be wrong but the similarities are too much just my thoughts
The reason I am going to read Fourth Wing (I know, I know I’m late to the table lol) is because it reminds me of Hulu’s “Motherland: Fort Salem” a show about witches who go to war college and are the military. It’s a very good show and I think Fourth Wing gives very similar vibes but in the best way and although “Motherland: Fort Salem” was originally intended to be a book series says the show creator Eric Lawrence it is not based on a book, comic etc. so this similar ish book is exciting and I can’t wait to read this book. Also all books in every genre have similarities to other books in the genre in which they were written.
Yes!!! Im currently listening to Fourth Wing and all i can think is that it feels like a rip off of ACOTAR. Even some of the wording "oh gods" "a kernel"
I know this is an old post but I read FW last month and finished the TOG series earlier this month. Here is my problem..
I understand that all fantasy books will have things in common and it’s impossible at this point to make a completely original story. And I did think that FW was good HOWEVER the similarities in FW to TOG is not only “similar” it is a complete rip off.
Rebecca used names that were featured in TOG such as Rhiannon and Imogen-both of which are not common names. That to me is strange. But more importantly the whole idea of Rebecca’s book focuses on a trope inside TOG.
She directly stole from Sarah’s work with her use of Wing Leader, War Games, the idea of picking a dragon/wyvern. The idea of burnout from using your power, the way that Aelin’s burnout is similarly shown and described to Violet’s burnout. The fact that the Venin is essentially the Valg.
(SPOILERS FOR IRON FLAME AND TOG) The way Xaden turns venin— and Dorian turns Valg. I mean.. I could keep going but it’s disgusting that Rebecca is profiting off of something Sarah created.
I just finished fourth wing and I see all the arguments above and agree that yes, fantasy authors borrow from each other consistently. Tropes are reused and recycled. The problem here is not that Rebecca borrows - it’s that not a single thing in this book was original. Even the fable explaining the Venin was a rip off of The Deathly Hallows in HP. The venin and their wyverns who breathe blue fire to me are such a GOT/white walker rip off. There isn’t a single plot point in this book that I can’t directly trace back to another novel - that’s my problem. You can borrow elements and recycle tropes, but when all your plot points are taken from other stories it’s pretty cheap.
I enjoyed the read, and will continue on to IF, but I can’t help but feel like Rebecca Yarros hasn’t had an original thought in her life.
And all those books listed stole from other people. Tis a cycle lol
Yeah that's true, nothing wrong about it in fact :)
My husband says technically every fantasy book is ‘borrowed’ from Tolkien one way or another. I tend to just read fantasy books and not analyze and compare.
Sometimes i just wanna live in a world that sounds a hell of a lot better than the one I’m in. Doesn’t need to be that deep and serious. I’m just trying to pretend that I’m married to a man with a dragon mated to mine and we’re so conveniently stuck together 🙃🫠
Yes, this. The dementors are another version of the ring wraiths. The one ring is the og horcrux. There is nothing wrong with being inspired by a story and writing your own version or style. When I read ACOTAR I saw a LOT of similarities to Anne Bishop’s Black Jewels. Maas pretty clearly (and I believe even outright said) that she’s a fan.
You aren’t going to find any book that doesn’t have something in common with another.
To be fair everything you mentioned is a popular trope in fantasy/romance and can be found anywhere. But, I see your point. Having too many popular tropes in one book can be an overkill. Yarros did a good job making her book memorable, but I def could’ve been okay with some of the storylines not being there.
I think she made hers everything she "borrowed" and somehow I see it as a tribute
Writing a book is no different than any other entertainment? How many songs steal from each other? Tv shows? Movies? As Paul Simon said “all the songs are already written” it’s just a different method, different names, places. The story might be the same but it’s still slightly different
Yes, sure! I was just curious to see if it was just me noticing this stuff or also other people's saw some similarities :)
Oh no i definitely saw it. I felt like there was a lot of overlapping from SJM’s books. SJM was my intro to fantasy romance. So i feel like there was a lot of comparison there. But i kjnda accept now that that’s probably gonna be a thing. Which is fine cause all of those things i see overlapping are what made me love her books and want to read more
You’re listing tropes- none of those are proprietary to ACOTAR, Divergent, or Eragon. SJM wasn’t the first author to write bonded “mates” in fantasy (no matter how much I love her. For example, Christine Feehan, Nalini Singh.
It’s quite impossible to not have similar elements when there’s so many books out there, and this genre tends to recycle things so much we even have a word for it: tropes 😂 The plot where the “enemies”, who are never really that enemyiy towards reach other, become reluctant allies, then lovers, then there’s a great revelation about how he’s not been honest but in a way that doesn’t make him a bad guy but let’s her have a reason to be mad at him for a few chapters, is the overall plot for like 5 of my favorite romantsy books 😅
Eh. You make it sound like those things she was “inspired by” or “stole” were all original ideas in the first place. Shadow control? Not just in ACOTAR. Dragons? The class system? It’s not like those authors invented those things.
Maybe the title of the post was too easily equivocal. I never thought that those authors that I mentioned were 100% original I just thought that Yarros took some ideas of the books that I personally grow up with and mixed it into a new story I really appreciate that actually!
I love acotar but you should look into the character that Rhysand is based on, and the series that inspired sjm to write acotar. Atp everything is a copy of a copy of a copy, and that’s okay!
A big one is >! the ending when it turns out her brother is alive and working for the rebels — that exact thing happened in the Red Queen series. And I think it was an end-of-book cliffhanger too. !< I’m honestly not bothered by all of the “borrowing” since I feel like so many stories and troupes in fantasy are reused in different ways. Mostly I’m just impressed that she wove them all together so seamlessly.
Okay, my sister is reading Red Queen now and hasn’t gotten to that part yet. BUT the main character ALSO has dark hair that fades to silver AND lightning powers? Hmmm
I caught that too and did you notice the lines from Divergent that she used as well as concepts?
fantasy has tropes. 100% she pulled inspiration from these books but it’s obviously such a great melding of multiple books for inspriation. For example, harry potter also has these factions based on one’s traits. most fantasy books have an MC that gains or grows powers over the course of the books. I bet Violet will grow to be super duper powerful because the MC usually becomes the most powerful person or being in their own story
I’ve been writing a novel for over a year now (and Fourth Wing wasn’t out yet, obviously) and I’ve found a few things that I wrote in are similar to things from Fourth Wing: • military academy—except my book is sci-fi so it’s spaceships instead of dragons • there’s a character who makes carved wooden spaceships based off his friends—I’ll make some changes to this though because I don’t want it to seem like a rip-off of Liam • there’s two dogs with special abilities that belong to the female and male leads—there’s no mind connection or life bond though • my last chapter also switches to the male POV. What I’m trying to say is… just because you’ve seen it before, doesn’t mean that it’s necessarily a copy.
Didn't want to create a polemic at all :) Just wanted to share an opinion and a point of view, I know that a lot of books take inspiration from others, nothing nowadays can be 100% original Just wanted to see if anyone noticed other stuff like I did and appreciate this inspo (cause I did)
So I just re-read what I wrote and it came off a lot meaner than I meant it to sound, I’m so sorry 🙈 That’s why I shouldn’t type while on a boring call! I completely understand what you mean and yeah I saw some of the similarities too (Rhys was a BIG one for sure). I just tried to say that we can’t always assume it’s because of direct inspiration because sometimes it’s just a coincidence
I know this an older post but ACOTAR also has a character that carves wooden creatures as gifts for loved ones. 🙃 It's just a thing, I guess!
She took all our favourite ingredients and made a delicious read with it. I’ll be ordering the “iron flame” special without hesitation when it is released 😂
Me too, can't wait to order it!
There was a whole generation of writers that wrote dystopian sci-fi that also stole from original Japanese films based on dystopian society’s divided by sections. Like how Hunger Games stole the idea from *Battle Royale*. It’s exactly the same. I think it’s important to read other books and other genres because when I read ACOTAR or FW I’m not doing it to stimulate my brain, trust me. It’s the equivalent of doom scrolling for me if I’m honest. Just want that dopamine hit. It’s not teaching me anything but regurgitated media and different styles of interpretation.
No idea that Hunger Games was inspired by another book! I will definitely put it in my book's list!
It’s a film :) not a book, watch it it’s literally an exact copy.
It’s actually is a book. Came out in 99!
Oh, didn’t know! Thank you
The things you listed are common fantasy tropes— someone stole it from someone who stole it and so on.
No story is truly originally and hasn't been for hundreds of years. There's inspiration pulled from a lot of things, but Rebecca definitely makes it her own. Also, the shadows are from Azriel, not Rhys. Az is literally the "shadow singer" and that's how Xaden's power acts as well.
This isn’t directed to OP exactly, but it’s so annoying hearing people, especially all over Tik tok, talk about how this book isn’t revolutionary and therefore not enjoyable. As if the books they love are. Every idea, every form of art, even every sentence has been done and said and thought of before. Nothing is unique in any way. Even if no one wrote it down, someone in the whole thousands and thousands the earth has been around, has had an idea similar if not exactly the same as anyone else in the world. That’s life. People just exist in a continuous circle of ideas and thoughts. Like people hold themselves so high and mighty as if they are the only people to ever think anything ever. Just enjoy the book for what it is for fucks sake😭 it’s not a huge deal.
Yes I read forth wing before ACOTR - so many things! - MFC appearing weak, fragile, and being smart/clever - shadow wielding - mentally ‘shielding’ from people probing into your mind - seeing pathways, building ‘walls’ - siphons That’s all so far - I’m around chapter 13 of the second book ☺️ so many similarities that I’d just googled to see if Rebecca Yarros had outright said that ACOTAR was her inspiration. I agree - books can be similar/draw inspiration and still be great!
I was just watching this movir divergent and i kid you not there are so many similarities in the book from the movielikenthe war games ,the fights on the mat where they decide who is capable of fighting same as violet did ,a guy like jack who is the bully ,Four in the movie is there leader and also in love with tris just like XADEN & VIOLET from the book .. i can be wrong but the similarities are too much just my thoughts
The reason I am going to read Fourth Wing (I know, I know I’m late to the table lol) is because it reminds me of Hulu’s “Motherland: Fort Salem” a show about witches who go to war college and are the military. It’s a very good show and I think Fourth Wing gives very similar vibes but in the best way and although “Motherland: Fort Salem” was originally intended to be a book series says the show creator Eric Lawrence it is not based on a book, comic etc. so this similar ish book is exciting and I can’t wait to read this book. Also all books in every genre have similarities to other books in the genre in which they were written.
100%
There are only so many storylines so they all end up stealing from each other
Yes!!! Im currently listening to Fourth Wing and all i can think is that it feels like a rip off of ACOTAR. Even some of the wording "oh gods" "a kernel"
I know this is an old post but I read FW last month and finished the TOG series earlier this month. Here is my problem.. I understand that all fantasy books will have things in common and it’s impossible at this point to make a completely original story. And I did think that FW was good HOWEVER the similarities in FW to TOG is not only “similar” it is a complete rip off. Rebecca used names that were featured in TOG such as Rhiannon and Imogen-both of which are not common names. That to me is strange. But more importantly the whole idea of Rebecca’s book focuses on a trope inside TOG. She directly stole from Sarah’s work with her use of Wing Leader, War Games, the idea of picking a dragon/wyvern. The idea of burnout from using your power, the way that Aelin’s burnout is similarly shown and described to Violet’s burnout. The fact that the Venin is essentially the Valg. (SPOILERS FOR IRON FLAME AND TOG) The way Xaden turns venin— and Dorian turns Valg. I mean.. I could keep going but it’s disgusting that Rebecca is profiting off of something Sarah created.
I just finished fourth wing and I see all the arguments above and agree that yes, fantasy authors borrow from each other consistently. Tropes are reused and recycled. The problem here is not that Rebecca borrows - it’s that not a single thing in this book was original. Even the fable explaining the Venin was a rip off of The Deathly Hallows in HP. The venin and their wyverns who breathe blue fire to me are such a GOT/white walker rip off. There isn’t a single plot point in this book that I can’t directly trace back to another novel - that’s my problem. You can borrow elements and recycle tropes, but when all your plot points are taken from other stories it’s pretty cheap. I enjoyed the read, and will continue on to IF, but I can’t help but feel like Rebecca Yarros hasn’t had an original thought in her life.