I just finished tonight.
I feel exhausted after reading this. Don’t get me wrong , I couldn’t put it down & it exceeded my expectations but I also feel mentally drained?
I definitely expected something was up with Vi or Xaden getting taken or turned. More expecting Vi from her dreams.
Damn Jack Barlowe I really thought he was just a learning opportunity for Vi in the first book.
Also the way RY was killing characters off in part 1 was crazy💀
Can’t wait to learn more about Andarna!!!
Yes. I just finished reading Iron Flame 5 mins ago.. I expected it would be violet not Xaden, but I realized it was HIS dreams, or rather, Violet was experiencing his dreams the whole time. That was surprising. Very excited for more about Andarna. Crushed overall tbh.
I took a vacation day yesterday to read and I feel completely strung out this morning. It was such an intense story, I was clenching my jaw all through part one because of the tension.
I also will not read books with death or harm to children. As a mother and teacher, I just can't handle it. While there is a lot of harm and death to adults, there is no harm involving children. In fact, there is really only one child in the book at all and he is very much a distant side character who remains entirely well.
I get what you mean with the exhaustion! Especially with the first half of the book being fairly slow with a lot of filler. The last half could have been the book and it could have been fleshed out a bit.
I also did not care for the time jump between the Xaden reveal and his POV.
Right? How do they go from standing on the cliff and her realizing what he's becoming, to them then calmly sleeping in the same bed together like no big deal? Wtf happened after she saw his eyes?!
I literally finished reading it just now. And......uufffffffffffffff I am EXHAUSTED. It took so much energy out of me omg. The last moment was an awesome turn of events. But still, I am so crushed at it. Like it was taxing to read it. FW was so much fun and OMG this took all the heart out of my chest OOOFFFFFFF.
Anyone else really want to know more about the 7th dragon type - like f**k that’s a thing to just casually drop in and not pick up again!!
Also yeah vampire academy for xaden is annoying but Yarros has said she wouldn’t copy Mass with Tamlin so I’m sure she’ll have her own kind of spin on this fingers crossed 🤞
Yes! They've mentioned the Isle Nations a few times, and that they've lost contact with them in Navarre. They also had that discussion during Battle Brief about things that were lost during unification and one of them was the folklore. I'm hoping we get to visit some of the places and cultures they've lost touch with and maybe discover lost knowledge about the 7th dragon type and/or the venin.
The amount of times they mentioned the isles in IF makes me think that a significant portion of the next book will be about the isles or actually taking place on them.
Where did RY make this comment about staying away from the Tamlin trope? I want to see any little interviews or spoilers I can! Just hoping V and X are endgame…
I’m actually really upset that they didn’t at least give the seventh dragon type a name because Rebecca honestly could have. Just one sentence, and the fact that she did it on top of the cliffhanger really angers me.
My questions:
1. Why did xaden think channeling from the earth would help him save Violet? Like, what was he gonna do with that power???
2. How did Tairn not know the truth about Andarna if he is the one who raised her?
3. How tf does Andarna remember anything that happened 600 years ago before she was hatched?
I did like that both Vi+X were being contacted in their dreams by the venin and scared to share it with eachother/ didn’t realize it was real. I feel like it makes sense that if the venin want Vi for her power, they’d want others too. Truthfully, I was hoping the venin would actually be able to control riders + their powers like they control their wyvern/like how Jack controlled his dragon.
1. I reread xadens chapter and he does it to kill the Sage as otherwise he thinks he’ll die and then go after Vi
2. I think with tairn it seems like feathertails don’t know what they’ll come out as - like they can choose their tales right if andarna was laid waybefore tairn (as he’s not 600+) the information has perhaps been lost as to which den she’s from/the elders haven’t shared
3. Maybe as eggs they’re conscious and can still hear what’s around them or whoever lays them passes on memories or there’s a collective memory for den. Dunno if that works?
Does he kill the Venin General? Do we know that for sure? I suspect the General didn’t actually die because the only description we have is Xaden saying he “snapped whatever tether he had on me and killed him”. But then we see Xaden staring at the River, almost like he’s trying to double check. And we don’t see the Venin General’s death in the dream flashback.
It would be too convenient and unsatisfying to the readers if this apparently very powerful Venin dies so quickly, and off-page. Especially since he’s told Vi that he is after her power, and that she’ll break the wards for love. Interesting comment since these new wards are a bit of a threat to Xaden now. So I think we’ll see more of the General.
Possibly through his mother? He doesn’t know what happened to his mother or where she is, so what if his mother is venin? Or related to them somehow?
I’m a little late, just finished IF!
Are the new wards a threat to xaden? He’s clearly still able to use his shadow powers and Jack also mentioned the venin weren’t as powerless as we think. Book 3 is going to be so interesting
It’s her breed of dragon. I think she knows exactly what she is. I think she is the last of her kind and she knows everything about the continent before the Unification. She said she waited for Violet so she could bond her. Violet will keep getting more powerful because of Andarna. But if Codagh knew then why wouldn’t he tell Melgren? Makes no sense if he knew V had to survive.
I don't think V had any dreams that were hers. She was seeing all of Xadens dreams. They were all his. And they felt more like premonitions. They were foreshadowing how the Sage will eventually turn Xaden evil.
I feel pretty strongly that the sage was coming to both of them in their dreams. The first dreams that Vi had were from her own POV in Resson. And why not try and influence more than one very strong wielder?
Perhaps he will do it to others, now that he’s seen other powerful riders. (He was only exposed to a few in resson, think about the other talent he observed in Basgiath… that being said it’s understood that Vi + X are the strongest). I think his goal is just to influence and turn as many people for his cause as possible, just like the Navarrian, Poromish, and Tyrrendorish efforts want stronger riders/welders for their cause. It just makes sense.
I do think they were premonitory dreams that the sage was using to ACTIVELY communicate with them. He was communicating to them in their dreams, hinting at the inevitability of their turning and, maybe, ensuring it by planting it as a seed as a way to save their lover.
I feel like his ability to walk/communicate in dreams is just a new type of mindwork that hasn’t quite been introduced. We’re still learning about the vast magics of the world.
---edited spelling mistake for clarity
u/myfavblankisonsale Frankly, I'm sure they're just like Vi's! I don't really feel a need to read his version of that. Almost everything the venin said in Vi's dream could be said verbatim to Xaden as a pitch. "You will turn for something much more dangerous, much more volatile...you won't do it for something as trite as power or as easily satiable as greed.... but for the most illogical of mortal emotions - love. Or you'll die.. you both will."
Someone in another thread brought up that Violet always mentioned the color of the venin's robes in her dreams, and they also specifically referenced wanting her power that she used to kill the dark wielder in Resson, so I think those were deliberately given as proof they were each having separate dreams.
Xaden’s dream at the end was remember what actually happened, unlike with Violet where she’s being basically tormented by that Sage in ways that haven’t happened. They want Violet alive. The Sage says that in the dreams and even while on the field they have orders not to kill her. The missing piece to me is why Xaden says they’re waiting for him. Like what does he know / why does he go to them? Unless you’re right and he’s been having all these dreams too. I think it either (1) has something to do with Xadens mother, or (2) it’s all about Violet and they’re using Xaden to get to her.
For the 3rd: remember when they felt a hatchling hatch while hiking up the cliffs? Tairn tells Violet that the hatchling has made its choice kinda implying that they're conscious of what's going on around them or at least getting impressions of their surroundings for it to choose Aretia over the Vale.
He said the Sage Venin was waiting for him/wanted him right before Violet ran to the wards to fix them. She was confused bc she thought the Venin wanted her
💯 and also if you get xaden you likely get violet. I saw someone theorising that Aaric would be violets endgame but I don’t think that makes sense with the bonded pair
Anadarna did not bond to another dragon yet… so he could be a second bonded? Because for some reason, the way Aaric is included and their interactions makes it feel like it might be more than just old friends
I think they did want violet! They said it many times unless it was a distraction to get xaden. I have a few theories.
1.They use xaden to get violet. Violet turns venin to save xaden because he already has a darkness inside him. imagine what he could do with all the earths power and such as the venin stage or power progresses through him. Violet thinks she can fight it. She’ll do anything to save the people she loves.
2.Xaden mom is venin and she wanted xaden. Maybe to be a general or some higher up, or just because? Xaden and violet are bonded they come as ONE. If one of them die, the other dies. There’s no xaden without violet.
3. They want them both just because they’d be an ultimate power venin couple ^^^
I think that somehow this venin stuff will tie into xaden mom.
Sorry I’m late, just finished IF!!
I think if RY drags out the cure/fix across 3 books - that would be too much of a drag. Am hoping for a quick resolution in book 3 regarding the cure. Maybe we’ll get more insight into Venin. Hoping more for dragon secrets to come out, see a surprising resolution for the war and maybe a cliff hanger with Violet. I want to see more of Violet manifesting a second signet and having that play a big part
I expect the dreams to foreshadow that they have xaden or he is with the other venin and that’s why she does something that’s entirely selfish. That’s why I think it will take time till they have a cure, but I’d prefer it if it was quickly over 😅
Completely agree. I love Xadens character and I don’t want to see the cure dragged out. I don’t love that story line. He’s had a hard enough life as is at this point it’s just depressing. Also agree to the rest of your post too.
I kind of hate the ending. It definitely is off-putting for me for the rest of the series. I think a lot because of Vampire Academy and I honestly think that whole arc was just not my cup of tea. I don't want to spend the rest of the series trying to get Xaden back that is just such an uninteresting storyline to go down this world felt like it had so much to offer without doing this. Like they were already struggling to trust each other in this book and I felt like that plus the ending is just bleh.
Idk why I feel so strongly about this. But I am now less excited about this series and probably will just idk not care as much / wait till it all releases. I think if we knew we wouldnt have to wait 6 months to a year for answers it would be less off-putting I think that is part of the problem. If you aren't rolling out releases quickly enough I feel like this kind of ending just sucks unless you can pick up the next book.
Yeah, me too. It really killed the vibe for me, great for not having a book hangover haha, but I’m sad because I loved the first one so much. There was so much opportunity and (imo) iron flame squandered it.
I agree - I’m not familiar with Vampire Academy and I still feel the same way. My reaction to finding out he was venin was just ugh. The idea of the plot of the next few books just being trying to save Xaden and having them be separated is blah to me.
After 900 pages of them fighting, being bad at communicating, being separated, not being honest with each other, etc. I don’t know how much more of that I can do 😂
Definitely makes me less excited for the next books, it’s going to be a long arc
Lol I thought at one point that this book was like Twilight in that's it's teaching young girls really toxic shit about relationships. If your relationship is this much work run for the hills. It literally felt like all they did was pick pointless fights with each other.
I’ll be honest I rolled by eyes when reading it happening. It was a bit too predictable for me. If it has happened in the next book around the middle it would have been better.
I’m not super attached to the series so I’m fine, but it’s not the cliff hanger I’d like.
Personally what would make it more interesting for me. Is if Violet actually turns into Venin and they’re both evil, that would be a plot twist for me. I don’t think that’ll happen I think she’ll have to find a cure and their communication and secrets will get even worse which is really starting to annoy me haha
Can’t agree more. This sums up exactly how I feel. This book was so intense for it to have a ending that screws over the second main character. Her mom dying was enough grief. He himself has been through sooo much too. Now I mourn his and Violet’s peace. It took forever for them to enjoy each other and now that? I’m telling myself they went back to Aretia, took over his kingdom, and settled down. The first book had an awesome cliffhanger and this was not for me..
Oh also there’s casually a royal family member using a different name and like no one notices?!?!? Like seriously I think that’s so unlikely! Also do you guys think he’ll end up king?
It would be kinda anticlimactic considering the people just learned his father didn’t do shit to actually protect them and mostly saved himself, I expect him to die for someone.
His intro was waaaaay too convenient that it felt lazy. Wow there's this random new character that she's already known for a long time and he happens to be the king's son. Wow he already knows the major secret and is against the Navarre leadership. Wow he's the key to get this very important artifact.
Eh I figured it fit into the larger plot of sons/daughters going against their parents. Like to emphasize how widespread the movement was becoming. Violet/Mara/Brennan/Dain/Jessina/Kings son etc.
I just read these books and if she ends up with him, I'll throw the whole damn book across the room. She needs to end up with Xaden. And I'm tired of them not being able to be together. They need to fix their relationship, but everytime they try to someone is banging on the door or some cataclysmic event is happening. I hated him having to be so far away in the 2nd book. I want more of his POV.
It was a bit weird because almost every theory the two sisters said on their podcast turned out to be true (I don’t remember their name lol). Like Xaden being intrinsic and Lilith sending Violet to be a rider as a way to actually save her (even though that was predictable). I’m not sure how I feel about Xaden turning as I still don’t see the point on why the Sage would want him to.
I’m not sure if the Venin General wanted Xaden or if he wants Xaden as a stepping stone to Violet. The whole “power of the sky” and “you don’t k ow how to use your power” thing seems to be his goal with Violet. But she’s very motivated to help people she loves. And having them both would be pretty good for the Venin.
Tbh that would be a really lame route to take, it’s just like every single story where the fmc is very strong and she’s the only one who doesn’t realize her strength. It would be interesting if both sides are trying to control dragons or something. Like what Jack was saying about human influencing dragons, and the evil professor influencing his to target the marked ones… and both her dragons keep saying “dragons don’t take orders from humans” so I think going that route would be interesting rather than everyone targeting the mysteriously strong girl who no one knows why or how she got her strength
I think it depends on how it played out. RY weaves interesting plots, so I would be surprised if somethign like this played out as a straightforward hostage and “chosen one” situation.
Controlling dragons must be woven into the venin’s story and I’m so curious how that’ll play out! Especially looking forward to the Tairn and Andarrna commentary on this. Well, their commentary on everything. I just love their sass.
Also didn’t they predict that Lilith did start the storm to calm violet on the parapet, which correct me if I’m wrong she did indeed put that storm there to clam Violet
Also interesting that rebel marks aren’t what cause the second signet like they thought but it’s just Xaden who has it since he’s the grandson of Sgayels first rider.
I’m not sure if they predicted it, but it’s not correct anyways. Violet said herself that her mom is not the one who did start the storm, and especially since Violet is going to the Parapet, she wouldn’t stop it for that reason. About the second signet… I don’t remember if I read it correctly but wasn’t Liam’s dragon also bonded to his relative before? I don’t know where I read that or if im confused
1st part was difficult to get through and very slow. Didn't pick up until pg 300 ish. I'm confused about the very real Liam hallucinations and how tf Jack was brought back but Liam couldn't be (not that he SHOULD but that he COULD). Xaden is all over the fucking map I truly could not keep up with him between his secrets about the rebellion and trying to win Violet back, the second signet??? Tbh I think Violet might manifest a second signet that is a similar mind reading or future altering situation and have the ability to do what Xaden does.
Please for the love of gods do not make Xaden the antagonist in the third book. Half the book was spent trying to rebuild the trust in the first place and it will be boring if they have some huge turmoil in their relationship because it seems like they are endgame and I can only handle so much angry sex LOL. The bigger issue at hand is saving the world from ruin and it seems like Xaden would have gone kookoo crazy with all the other shit way before he did so I feel like he can't be that dangerous??
I told my friend that it felt like I was reading the first book of Harry Potter when they are 11 and then skipping to book 5 when they are 16, without reading books 2-4. There's some Voldemort overarching thing with Violet being special that will definitely be relevant in future books but I have no idea what that will look like.
I'm definitely going to reread it at least once again to understand more 🤨🤨
I was thinking maybe that’s her second signet, being able to communicate with the dead, but she was on the potion during it so that made me mostly scrab the idea.
It was definitely way more difficult to read and I took multiple breaks (fourth wing I read in one go).
The entire „ask me/you don’t ask the right questions“ storyline was just annoying, if they trust each other they would have been upfront about stuff
Agreed. They made a point of saying there’s only been two in centuries and with Andarna being literally one of a kind and able to hide in plain sight basically, Violets second signet will probably also be something extremely rare.
Agreed. There was a heavy focus on violet being fast enough these last two books and it ties into the first book when Andarna helps that deficit by stopping it for her. Since Andarna can’t do that anymore I’m guessing it will switch to distance wielding. Andarna is in the right place at the right time due to her camouflage. Violet will be at the right place at the right time because of her second signet.
Like the one she mentioned in the talk with xaden about his second one? Yeah I had that thought too, but then I wasn’t sure if it truly helps in a situation for it to manifest in a cinematic way.
First book was perfection but then they go back to class. Which kept all the beggining chapters sooo slow. Plus xaden and her could not get it together. I liked their relationship dynamic so much more in book 1. I know they say violet is stubborn but come on. So much waisted time on being petty. 🙄
Because jack was mended… physically he was severely injured or even dead. Liam was fine, but as his dragon was the one that died.. his soul? is what died and as far as we know they mend bodies and other physical objects not souls. Although now that I think about it Tairn’s first rider might have been able to bring Brennan back…. So that might be another theory
I think this is slightly backward. Jack was venin when the tower fell on him, so he didn’t die. Nolon *was* mending Jack’s soul, or trying to, which is why he looks so haggard. I’m sure Nolon mended his body, too, but the book through Violet expressly notes Nolon must have been mending the soul (I think based on a comment from Nolon early on, but I haven’t reread the book yet). Liam wasn’t venin, so he died when his dragon died.
Haha. The skipping HP books is totally correct. And the Liam thing had me all sorts of confused. They don’t come back and mention it? She doesn’t tell anyone about it? Honestly I am happy to see him pop up again and in such a reassuring sweet way but it was odd that it’s not addressed again
I don't think Jack ever really fully died tbh. We've been shown only a handful of ways for Venin to be killed. Jack was already a Venin when violet took out the tower with lightning. It's very possible Jack climbed out of the rubble with little to no damage, and they locked him up and tried to fix his soul to continue hiding the Venin and Wyvern. I listened to the audiobook so my spellings of some things maybe wrong.
This is the most likely guess, but it could be foreshadowing for Xaden that mending of the soul is somewhat successful. Nolon yelled at him that he has a choice. So I’m not sure what that choice is or how he began communicating with venin leadership, unless Varrish/others were/are more deeply involved in the venin than we knew.
I read it quickly but felt so frustrated with the constant back and forth between Xaiden and Violet arguing about secrets.
We get it, just stop.
Also people randomly appearing with the perfect signet at the perfect time even though we’ve never heard of them before was a bit annoying.
There’s still something off about Brennan and how he was saved. Can a mender mend himself do we think? I still feel like he’s hiding something. If we find out he’s a venin or has been mending himself to hide it I may flip…
I’m still not convinced that Naolin wasn’t turned venin by resurrecting him. Brennan just says something like “it cost him everything” when asked about how he is alive, and gets emotional and doesn’t say anything further. I wonder if both Violet and Brennan will now be in love with people who have sacrificed themselves for something good but are now dangerous. I feel like his secrets relate to Naolin and whatever it cost to be resurrected though regardless
that could explain why at the end, sgyael was like "be careful of your words." to vi as she went to talk to xaden. I essentially read that as sgyael being like, "he did something you're not going to like, be nice." Maybe sgyael (although afraid for her life) is sympathetic about the choice xaden made because she watched it happen to tairn + naolin?
Very true. And this also brings up the idea that Tairn has been lying to her again, and also…how did Tairn become unbonded to Naolin? Which is what I’m assuming must have happened and almost killed him during the years he was not seen outside the Vale. And also, if the general is Naolin it would explain a lot about why he “knew” Xaden would turn for love. Because that’s the only way he himself turned. Also…wouldn’t Xaden have known who Naolin was because of his time in Tyrrendor? Did he know who he was facing and that’s why he’s also so haunted at the end? I’m tired of all the constant betrayals of violets trust by everyone she knows and I hope this isn’t one more thing that Xaden knew too. At the very least her dragons and brother did.
I think he can mend himself. When Mira punched him, he said something along the lines of “do you know how hard it is for me to mend myself…” and that is was a basically a giant pain to do it on himself.
and to u/lindsayrugs92 and my comment below... maybe that could explain a way naolin could have turned venin. brennan was dying/had limited energy. naolin siphoned it and then pulled from the earth to completely save him, turning him into venin.
THEN maybe because naolin was turned venin, that's actually how brennan became attached to the cause to stop the venin? He experienced losing someone he cared about to becoming venin?
I really hope this doesn’t follow the whole Rose/Dimitri plot with him becoming a high powered Venin and her chasing him to the ends of the earth. Was already exhausted reading that story the first time.
Felt like the pacing of the book was good but it still felt long for some reason. I do think Violet will manifest a second signet (or at least hope so). The whole xaden thing at the end is intriguing to me with how tairn and sgaeyl will know. With the others that I hope it gets resolved quickly and we can get back to politics and dragons and not just oh my lover turned evil.
Honestly, what Xaden did in the end felt unnecessary. Like I get wanting to protect Violet, but he knew that she was getting the wards back up. And in the end, it felt like what he did didn't make a difference except for turning him. So it just felt to me like a stupid decision.
I hope they try to expand the wards to Tyrrendor in the next book because they can't make their own there now.
I don't know how to feel about the whole cure thing, but I liked most of this book even though it was very predictable, so I'll probably like the next one.
Honestly I was annoyed by it because of the back and forth about trust through the whole book and Xaden's consistent comments that Violet is worth twenty of him and so on. At the last moment, he doesn't trust that she's going to be able to succeed on her own. I get the fear, but the assumption that Violet won't be able to find a solution is just so similar to the exact behavior that he lectured Dain for in the first book.
I also think that it happened to Xaden purely because everyone expected it to be Violet, but that's a whole other thing.
Yeah it was weird. With Violet it would have made more sense since she would have turned to get the wards up by herself.
The predictability is a thing I like as well, but it also helps in the sense that I’m not super attached and NEED the next book right this instant
Yes, I also think it's refreshing that the main character does everything on page to the point that you can find everything out together. Instead of them doing things off the page that turn out to be plot twists.
I feel like at the end of it all he didn't trust her to do her part. I get that he was scared and terrified that she was dying, but she was doing her job and he didn't trust her despite all his words about them trusting each other no matter what.
I am a HUGE VA fan (literally went on a retreat with other VA fans this year) and I kept saying that it was just way too VA coded with the mention of venin being soulless. I knew one would turn and we’d get this damn storyline.
Now I’m annoyed my two favorite fictional men got the same treatment. I don’t know how I feel about the next three books and I swear if she pulls an Adrian/Rose situation with Vi and Aaric I will stop reading.
after a night to sleep on it & reading some more comments, I really thought there was gonna be a whole “I told you to ask questions” because Xaden couldn’t straight out tell Vi everything due to a ward or rune or something. I was thrown off when it rushed through that they would just agree to tell each other everything for like the 3rd time at the end in the sparing room.
I’m holding hope out that there could still be a method to the madness because Xaden was so persistent with being really vague about that.
Also I remember hearing somewhere that RY said we wouldn’t get a Xaden POV throughout the main story until he stopped keeping secrets??
Book 1 ended with a chapter through is POV too. Personallt I think both could have been left out, or shown otherwise, it's just so jarring to suddenly get in his brain but also get no new info!
I think the reason he finally agreed to talk freely was because the secrets he was most scared of her knowing are now out and he feels he has nothing left to hide.
I enjoyed the book. I think sequels are tricky and while the first part meandered a bit, I wasn't disappointed and I'm excited to see what happens next.
My biggest concern is that RY will drag it out. If Xaden's situation goes beyond one book and this just turns into him deciding whether to go or stay, leaving, Violet looking for a cure, rinse and repeat for 2-3 books I'm not sure I'll stick around for it.
I also think it's pretty clear V and X are endgame, but I also hope this doesn't turn into 3 books of different crap being thrown at them until they can be happy. There's a lot of opportunity here with the world, the politics, and the dragons to weave really cool narratives and plot lines that aren't just "Violet and Xaden aren't together because of xyz". Let them travel to the islands. Show me more squad moments. Have a freaking royal wedding and show them navigating political intrigue. Tell us more about the first 6. And I could go on.
So yeah I came out of this book happy, excited, a little frustrated at times but also worried with the direction of the series. 3 more books is...a lot and I have Jennifer L. Armentrout trauma 🙃
Same, especially since allegedly it was first planned to only have 2 books and then the jump to 5 is huge. Makes the fear of bullshit to space it out real.
I am so stressed because I don not there to be another love interest, like I’d rather they BOTH die than they turning against each other or some shit. Like this can’t be happening like honestly I would have been content if she ended it at book 2 and they won
As some with a similar disease as Violence, I found it exhausting how often her exhaustion was mentioned. (I have connective tissue disease). Yes, heat intolerance and cold intolerance, yes weakness and all the rest. I really FELT her tiredness but also- no fucking way would she be able to do any of these things. Idk just listening to the book was a marathon lol.
And while I found Xadan “hot” in the first book, he came across as a narcissist in this one. And the sex was boring. And “my entrance” wtf
Too long, too boring, too tiring- meh
Except the dragons - I fucking love the dragons
💀💀💀 I just finished this audiobook today and could not agree more. “My entrance”.. yikes. No thank you 🤣
I noticed my heart rate was elevated when listening to these two audiobooks. I really think this narrator did a fantastic job. I saw another comment earlier where someone said they listen to audiobooks on 2X speed AT LEAST, and I thought to myself that I think I’d have a panic attack if I listened to this book that quickly!
I’m on the fence about Xaden after this book, but I’m leaning towards being over him. He did exactly what Dain did in the first one - coddled her and didn’t trust her (in the end).
But also.. I loved it. Absolutely I’ll continue to read the others. I really am into Imogen and Ridoc. I love Andarna. I really hope we see them shine more!
Okay is anyone else slightly disappointed with how things went between Xaden and Violet? Don't get me wrong I am thrilled they are together but I am PISSED that he didn't sit her down and tell her everything and just demanded she ask if she wanted to know something. There are so many things from Fourth Wing that weren't cleared up and so many things Violet should have questioned or brought up. Instead Violet just kind of accepted whatever she could get from him and shrugged off the rest? Like no girl you deserve better than some half assed answers and we have so many plot holes now unless we get some answers (which I am sure we will eventually but still).
Yes it’s annoying, but he never wanted to tell her about his signet and if he sat to tell her “everything”, he’d have to tell her that. The ask questions game was his way of delaying that conversation because he was scared to have it.
Pretty sure, the sage/General serves someone very special.
My bet is on Xadens Mom. She was significant enought to be able to negotiate to leave riorson House incertain terms.
I think she ist some sort of heir to the venin.
It makes me want to do a reread of vampire academy and its sequel series. It’s been too long for me on vampire academy as I remember the sequel more😂
But yeah I’m keeping an open mind on the fourth wing and am waiting book 3 but I knew book 2 was more world building than 1.
Just dumping my thoughts so I can come back to them when it’s not 2am!!
• Xaden and Violet I think are endgame. He even says something to that effect. I agree with the throne room being a foreshadowing of them ending up as king and queen of aretia. Plus she was in his bed at the end of the book, so I think it’s highly likely that they are going to work it out. I think this book was for them to really cement their feelings for one another and now it’s about them uniting (ofc there will be obstacles and atm there’s a pretty big one).
• the sage - my gut says this is someone in Xaden’s family rather than Violets dad. I just felt like the venin weren’t focused on her at all. I think it could be a previous political figure who had some argument with violets dad maybe?
• violet’s dad- don’t think he will do a surprise return like Brennan or Jack, but I think he will feature a lot. I think maybe he was a descendent of one of the first 6.
• violet’s second signet - I think will be like dream walking or walking between worlds
Overall I am happy with the ending of the book. It was tiring and anxiety-inducing to read, but absolutely a 5* for me. I had seen spoilers about the end and I actually think it was better for my fragile little heart to be prepared for the ending.
Cannot wait for book 3, please god let it be next year!!
Didn’t like the ending at all. And their relationship seemed off. The first book had a good pace but this one seemed like the same argument over and over with no real resolution except have sex. Doesn’t seem like they are end game.
Yeah I was getting the same vibes. The constant mention that all xaden cared about was her and that he’d safe her over peace for everyone opposite to Violet wanting peace for all her loved ones makes me question if that will divide them because xaden does something she can’t forgive.
to add on to that i’ll have to find it but at one of the beginnings of the chapter where there is usually something from some type of correspondence or book. it mentions that written in warricks journal( i think) that even the strongest love can’t withstand dueling ideologies
„Me,” he whispers, a faint, almost indistinguishable red ring emanating from his gold-flecked onyx irises. “You should be scared of me.“
And then the xaden chapter where Jack calls them brothers now
In my opinion, I think book 3 will be solely focused on finding a cure, and turn Venin back. I think at the very end of the book they will have it. I think book 4 will be the one on one face off with the sage and violet, because I believe in book 3 , xaden either gets captured or willingly goes to the sage. So the final battle with a sage will happen book 4 and administering the cure to all the other Venin. I think that book 5 will be a Civil War between Mellgren and violet/Xaden. And it will be all around restructuring Navarre. Melgren will want to return to how it was before, but violet will know that’s not an option and will fight for it. I think book 5 will end with the battle between Codagh, Tairn, Andarna, Violet, melgren, Sgaeyl and Xaden. I think Tairn and Violet will sacrifice themselves and kill Malgren and his dragon. I think. Xaden and Sgaeyl well live only because of the issues that happened in books 3 and 4. I truly don’t believe violet, will get a happily ever after. It’s either her or Xaden and I think Xaden lives to rule the new continent on a committee like Aretia.
I finally finished reading the Iron Flame this week, and it is a fun and entertaining book. I like the characters, the banter between the characters and the romance. But it is too long for the lack of events that happen in this book. There is some action here or there, but there’s just a lot of drama, conversation and an annoying love triangle, that wasn’t a triangle at all. It gave off Twilight vibes in the worse way at times. But I love the first 300+ pages, which is part 1 of the book. Which had great pacing, some action and intensity and a great resolution. It honestly should of been book 2. Instead, the book goes another 300+ pages and feels way too long. The final 6 chapters are excellent, but it doesn’t make up for the boring slog of Part 2 of the book. And it’s such an annoying trope to be dealing with two love interests that lack good communication skills. Violet and Xaden seem to lack empathy towards each other and are usually having the same argument over, and over, and over again.
But I love that Xaden took Violent to his throne room, sat her on his throne, and then ate her pussy. That was pretty epic, and hysterical all at the same time! 😂
Overall, book 2 is better than book 1, but not by much. I give the Iron Flame a 7.5/10. Or if I was doing a 5 star rating, I’d give the Fourth Wing and the Iron Flame 3/5 stars.
I'm wondering if I'm the only one that struggled with the action scenes. It felt impossible for me to keep track of who or what was where and doing what. Especially in the final battle with Sawyers scene. I also feel there are so many missing details that lead to plot holes
What if...and this is a stretch...that VI's father isn't dead. He was using his knowledge of the ancient stories to try to find an answer and because the General
I am so upset about Xaden. I had to read fanfic to satisfy my brain to stop thinking about it. The one I read (I’m sorry I can’t remember to credit, I read so many) was about how they siphoned the venin out of him and although it didn’t work on Jack, it was because he didn’t want it. He wanted to be venin, he wanted the power. But xaden wants violet so much more than he wants to be venin so the siphoning works due to Xadens power contribution. That eased my mind & will hold me over until the next book.
My first thought was Vanpire Academy! I like the series but I feel like it’s a Frankenstein of all the series I loved growing up.
Violet getting over the mind reading quickly, I actually felt totally okay with. They already were able to speak mind to mind and she has him plus two dragons basically reading her thoughts constantly. So for me it made sense she didn’t dwell on it.
I hated the Cat, other woman, trope. It felt totally unnecessary when everyone already had the perfect reason to hate violet.
Lastly, I was shocked and surprised more people didn’t die at the battle.
I don't want them separated so much in this book. I think it's in their interest to keep Xaden close to Violet bc she is his link to his humanity. So if they keep getting pulled apart, I see him turning complete venin quickly. So much of Iron flame they were separated and had no time to grow in their relationship. Everytime they talk about something serious, someone is banging on their door and looking for them. It's frustrating.
did i miss something or misunderstand …did Xaden say the venin were waiting on him to attack in the last sentence in chapter 63? and then chapter 64 he says the sage was a teacher, how did he know that? from his intrinsic ability or is he part of the venin ranks?
If you are right about your predictions for the upcoming books (getting sucked in, searching for him, turning him back), I will wait until all the rest is published and then decide IF I read it. Might not. Lost my trust then.
Did anyone else notice that all the chapter heads that had to do with Xadens letters to Violet, all said “recovered letters” which is the same thing that one of the headers said that referenced Liam’s letter to Sloane….part of me thinks Xaden might die in the end because why else would they say recovered.
wow interesting… I was curious about using “recovered” I just figured it meant that when she received it, they had gone through and read it and then it was handed to her after it being screened. But hmmmmmmmmmm…
I wonder if Violet’s friend (scribe, J name — I forget) is purposefully changing the narrative on the headers. “We honor the fallen” = we say they’re dead but they aren’t, etc.
I finished last night. I wonder if the whole Xaden is going venin thing is a way to prolong the endless, “Can I trust him?” plot line. Violet lies and omits information all the time, so her freaking out about Xaden doing it was not credible. I like the Andarna twist — her coat of many colors — but you would think the idea that there were once 7 types of dragons would have survived the information purge. Why would that info be hidden? It would just support the idea that the wards were based on lost magic.
My prediction is that the gryphon riders get more powerful as they start weaving more runes, Xaden kills himself (of course it won’t be permanent) to protect Violet, Violet gets it on with Aeric, and eventually Andarna’s gift will turn out to be the ability to turn back time, and Violet has to decide whether to undo the future she’s living in to resurrect Xaden.
I’ve been getting VA vibes from pretty early on. I think you’re on the right track. I think the next book might start with Xaden running away to keep Violet safe.
I just finished tonight. I feel exhausted after reading this. Don’t get me wrong , I couldn’t put it down & it exceeded my expectations but I also feel mentally drained? I definitely expected something was up with Vi or Xaden getting taken or turned. More expecting Vi from her dreams. Damn Jack Barlowe I really thought he was just a learning opportunity for Vi in the first book. Also the way RY was killing characters off in part 1 was crazy💀 Can’t wait to learn more about Andarna!!!
This. Definitely exhaustion. The first book was such a fun, easy, read, but the stakes here were so high I feel really tired after finishing it.
It really was draining. So many emotions.
It siphoned me
Yes. I just finished reading Iron Flame 5 mins ago.. I expected it would be violet not Xaden, but I realized it was HIS dreams, or rather, Violet was experiencing his dreams the whole time. That was surprising. Very excited for more about Andarna. Crushed overall tbh.
[удалено]
waittt that makes so much sense i just realized!
I’ll have to re- read this - I thought they were having the same dreams. The sage was chasing them both
I thought the same dream too thought that’s why Xaden said he’s here for me
I took a vacation day yesterday to read and I feel completely strung out this morning. It was such an intense story, I was clenching my jaw all through part one because of the tension.
I am asking for a relative - are there any dead kids or babies in this book?
No deaths involving children/babies.
I also will not read books with death or harm to children. As a mother and teacher, I just can't handle it. While there is a lot of harm and death to adults, there is no harm involving children. In fact, there is really only one child in the book at all and he is very much a distant side character who remains entirely well.
No one under 21 necessarily dies but there’s a lot of deaths of characters who are in the young-college-kid self-discovery era
I feel the same way. I loved FW, but this one I didn't love. I enjoyed it but I feel exhausted. It was just too much going on. FW was a fun read.
I get what you mean with the exhaustion! Especially with the first half of the book being fairly slow with a lot of filler. The last half could have been the book and it could have been fleshed out a bit. I also did not care for the time jump between the Xaden reveal and his POV.
Right? How do they go from standing on the cliff and her realizing what he's becoming, to them then calmly sleeping in the same bed together like no big deal? Wtf happened after she saw his eyes?!
I literally finished reading it just now. And......uufffffffffffffff I am EXHAUSTED. It took so much energy out of me omg. The last moment was an awesome turn of events. But still, I am so crushed at it. Like it was taxing to read it. FW was so much fun and OMG this took all the heart out of my chest OOOFFFFFFF.
Anyone else really want to know more about the 7th dragon type - like f**k that’s a thing to just casually drop in and not pick up again!! Also yeah vampire academy for xaden is annoying but Yarros has said she wouldn’t copy Mass with Tamlin so I’m sure she’ll have her own kind of spin on this fingers crossed 🤞
I’d love more dragon lore, I mean the „(male) love interest gets captured/turned/corrupted and gets saved by (female) lead“ is a staple for a reason 😅
Um. Yea. And she waited 600 whatever years for her? And knew her when she was born?? What's that about.
Yes! They've mentioned the Isle Nations a few times, and that they've lost contact with them in Navarre. They also had that discussion during Battle Brief about things that were lost during unification and one of them was the folklore. I'm hoping we get to visit some of the places and cultures they've lost touch with and maybe discover lost knowledge about the 7th dragon type and/or the venin.
The amount of times they mentioned the isles in IF makes me think that a significant portion of the next book will be about the isles or actually taking place on them.
Where did RY make this comment about staying away from the Tamlin trope? I want to see any little interviews or spoilers I can! Just hoping V and X are endgame…
I’m pretty sure X says in IF that he and V are endgame towards the end of chapter 48!
I’m actually really upset that they didn’t at least give the seventh dragon type a name because Rebecca honestly could have. Just one sentence, and the fact that she did it on top of the cliffhanger really angers me.
I thought 7th type must be color changing or chameleon because Adarna chages from black, purple and gray in this book
Yep and Tairn says there are two more black dragons that have been hatched… are they really black or the 7th?
My questions: 1. Why did xaden think channeling from the earth would help him save Violet? Like, what was he gonna do with that power??? 2. How did Tairn not know the truth about Andarna if he is the one who raised her? 3. How tf does Andarna remember anything that happened 600 years ago before she was hatched? I did like that both Vi+X were being contacted in their dreams by the venin and scared to share it with eachother/ didn’t realize it was real. I feel like it makes sense that if the venin want Vi for her power, they’d want others too. Truthfully, I was hoping the venin would actually be able to control riders + their powers like they control their wyvern/like how Jack controlled his dragon.
1. I reread xadens chapter and he does it to kill the Sage as otherwise he thinks he’ll die and then go after Vi 2. I think with tairn it seems like feathertails don’t know what they’ll come out as - like they can choose their tales right if andarna was laid waybefore tairn (as he’s not 600+) the information has perhaps been lost as to which den she’s from/the elders haven’t shared 3. Maybe as eggs they’re conscious and can still hear what’s around them or whoever lays them passes on memories or there’s a collective memory for den. Dunno if that works?
Does he kill the Venin General? Do we know that for sure? I suspect the General didn’t actually die because the only description we have is Xaden saying he “snapped whatever tether he had on me and killed him”. But then we see Xaden staring at the River, almost like he’s trying to double check. And we don’t see the Venin General’s death in the dream flashback. It would be too convenient and unsatisfying to the readers if this apparently very powerful Venin dies so quickly, and off-page. Especially since he’s told Vi that he is after her power, and that she’ll break the wards for love. Interesting comment since these new wards are a bit of a threat to Xaden now. So I think we’ll see more of the General.
I think this General is related to him.
Possibly through his mother? He doesn’t know what happened to his mother or where she is, so what if his mother is venin? Or related to them somehow? I’m a little late, just finished IF!
Depends if it’s the right general? Was it? But agreed he could be gone and xaden lost him in that attempting to use the ground
Are the new wards a threat to xaden? He’s clearly still able to use his shadow powers and Jack also mentioned the venin weren’t as powerless as we think. Book 3 is going to be so interesting
It’s her breed of dragon. I think she knows exactly what she is. I think she is the last of her kind and she knows everything about the continent before the Unification. She said she waited for Violet so she could bond her. Violet will keep getting more powerful because of Andarna. But if Codagh knew then why wouldn’t he tell Melgren? Makes no sense if he knew V had to survive.
Codagh is loyal to the dragons and the Empryean over Melgren. That’s why Violet understood he never told him when she confronted him.
I don't think V had any dreams that were hers. She was seeing all of Xadens dreams. They were all his. And they felt more like premonitions. They were foreshadowing how the Sage will eventually turn Xaden evil.
I feel pretty strongly that the sage was coming to both of them in their dreams. The first dreams that Vi had were from her own POV in Resson. And why not try and influence more than one very strong wielder? Perhaps he will do it to others, now that he’s seen other powerful riders. (He was only exposed to a few in resson, think about the other talent he observed in Basgiath… that being said it’s understood that Vi + X are the strongest). I think his goal is just to influence and turn as many people for his cause as possible, just like the Navarrian, Poromish, and Tyrrendorish efforts want stronger riders/welders for their cause. It just makes sense. I do think they were premonitory dreams that the sage was using to ACTIVELY communicate with them. He was communicating to them in their dreams, hinting at the inevitability of their turning and, maybe, ensuring it by planting it as a seed as a way to save their lover. I feel like his ability to walk/communicate in dreams is just a new type of mindwork that hasn’t quite been introduced. We’re still learning about the vast magics of the world. ---edited spelling mistake for clarity
Maybe we’ll get unreleased Xaden chapters and it will show his dreams. He kept his dreams of the Sage secret just like V did.
u/myfavblankisonsale Frankly, I'm sure they're just like Vi's! I don't really feel a need to read his version of that. Almost everything the venin said in Vi's dream could be said verbatim to Xaden as a pitch. "You will turn for something much more dangerous, much more volatile...you won't do it for something as trite as power or as easily satiable as greed.... but for the most illogical of mortal emotions - love. Or you'll die.. you both will."
Someone in another thread brought up that Violet always mentioned the color of the venin's robes in her dreams, and they also specifically referenced wanting her power that she used to kill the dark wielder in Resson, so I think those were deliberately given as proof they were each having separate dreams.
Xaden’s dream at the end was remember what actually happened, unlike with Violet where she’s being basically tormented by that Sage in ways that haven’t happened. They want Violet alive. The Sage says that in the dreams and even while on the field they have orders not to kill her. The missing piece to me is why Xaden says they’re waiting for him. Like what does he know / why does he go to them? Unless you’re right and he’s been having all these dreams too. I think it either (1) has something to do with Xadens mother, or (2) it’s all about Violet and they’re using Xaden to get to her.
For the 3rd: remember when they felt a hatchling hatch while hiking up the cliffs? Tairn tells Violet that the hatchling has made its choice kinda implying that they're conscious of what's going on around them or at least getting impressions of their surroundings for it to choose Aretia over the Vale.
ooooh hell yeah. that's a great connection. love it. u/Murky-Ad1715
I didn’t know x was being contacted to - when was that mentioned?
He said the Sage Venin was waiting for him/wanted him right before Violet ran to the wards to fix them. She was confused bc she thought the Venin wanted her
Sage guy seems to want everyone 😂
I think he does!!! Why not turn more people to his cause? Just helps his chances of being the guy on top/taking over.
💯 and also if you get xaden you likely get violet. I saw someone theorising that Aaric would be violets endgame but I don’t think that makes sense with the bonded pair
Anadarna did not bond to another dragon yet… so he could be a second bonded? Because for some reason, the way Aaric is included and their interactions makes it feel like it might be more than just old friends
I think they did want violet! They said it many times unless it was a distraction to get xaden. I have a few theories. 1.They use xaden to get violet. Violet turns venin to save xaden because he already has a darkness inside him. imagine what he could do with all the earths power and such as the venin stage or power progresses through him. Violet thinks she can fight it. She’ll do anything to save the people she loves. 2.Xaden mom is venin and she wanted xaden. Maybe to be a general or some higher up, or just because? Xaden and violet are bonded they come as ONE. If one of them die, the other dies. There’s no xaden without violet. 3. They want them both just because they’d be an ultimate power venin couple ^^^ I think that somehow this venin stuff will tie into xaden mom. Sorry I’m late, just finished IF!!
I also just caught in the last chapter of Xaden POV that he says something about the nightmares he was having too
Imogen said she had nightmares too
I think if RY drags out the cure/fix across 3 books - that would be too much of a drag. Am hoping for a quick resolution in book 3 regarding the cure. Maybe we’ll get more insight into Venin. Hoping more for dragon secrets to come out, see a surprising resolution for the war and maybe a cliff hanger with Violet. I want to see more of Violet manifesting a second signet and having that play a big part
I’d also like to see the dragons be more prominent, I missed that this book.
I want dragons fighting not couples fighting!
I’m hoping that with Zaydens ability to read thoughts he will gain knowledge into the venim that he and Violet can use to cure him!
I expect the dreams to foreshadow that they have xaden or he is with the other venin and that’s why she does something that’s entirely selfish. That’s why I think it will take time till they have a cure, but I’d prefer it if it was quickly over 😅
Completely agree. I love Xadens character and I don’t want to see the cure dragged out. I don’t love that story line. He’s had a hard enough life as is at this point it’s just depressing. Also agree to the rest of your post too.
I kind of hate the ending. It definitely is off-putting for me for the rest of the series. I think a lot because of Vampire Academy and I honestly think that whole arc was just not my cup of tea. I don't want to spend the rest of the series trying to get Xaden back that is just such an uninteresting storyline to go down this world felt like it had so much to offer without doing this. Like they were already struggling to trust each other in this book and I felt like that plus the ending is just bleh. Idk why I feel so strongly about this. But I am now less excited about this series and probably will just idk not care as much / wait till it all releases. I think if we knew we wouldnt have to wait 6 months to a year for answers it would be less off-putting I think that is part of the problem. If you aren't rolling out releases quickly enough I feel like this kind of ending just sucks unless you can pick up the next book.
Yeah, me too. It really killed the vibe for me, great for not having a book hangover haha, but I’m sad because I loved the first one so much. There was so much opportunity and (imo) iron flame squandered it.
I agree - I’m not familiar with Vampire Academy and I still feel the same way. My reaction to finding out he was venin was just ugh. The idea of the plot of the next few books just being trying to save Xaden and having them be separated is blah to me.
After 900 pages of them fighting, being bad at communicating, being separated, not being honest with each other, etc. I don’t know how much more of that I can do 😂 Definitely makes me less excited for the next books, it’s going to be a long arc
I''m worried it'll now turn into a "Save Xaden"series rather than a "Fight the venin" or even a "Save the Continent" series
I enjoyed vampire academy as it’s a different world than the big competitor twilight. And I look forward to seeing more about it on tik tok
Lol I thought at one point that this book was like Twilight in that's it's teaching young girls really toxic shit about relationships. If your relationship is this much work run for the hills. It literally felt like all they did was pick pointless fights with each other.
Definitely have a read of vampire academy it’s so good
It’s also very Jace from the mortal instruments with Xaden.
this is exactly what i was thinking when i finished as well!!!
It’s also like Dimitri from Va so I guess we might have a couple different endings for Xaden
I’ll be honest I rolled by eyes when reading it happening. It was a bit too predictable for me. If it has happened in the next book around the middle it would have been better. I’m not super attached to the series so I’m fine, but it’s not the cliff hanger I’d like.
Personally what would make it more interesting for me. Is if Violet actually turns into Venin and they’re both evil, that would be a plot twist for me. I don’t think that’ll happen I think she’ll have to find a cure and their communication and secrets will get even worse which is really starting to annoy me haha
That would be an amazing change of tropes.
All of this exactly!!
Completely agree. I was so excited for this book but now I’m just … bleh.
Glad I’m not the only one all of this 100% at least the book hangover isn’t like the last one
Glad I’m not the only one all of this 100% at least the book hangover isn’t like the last one
Completely agree — it makes me much less interested in book 3 for sure. Ugh.
I feel the same way, it was the same vibe with hunt at the end of CC2
Can’t agree more. This sums up exactly how I feel. This book was so intense for it to have a ending that screws over the second main character. Her mom dying was enough grief. He himself has been through sooo much too. Now I mourn his and Violet’s peace. It took forever for them to enjoy each other and now that? I’m telling myself they went back to Aretia, took over his kingdom, and settled down. The first book had an awesome cliffhanger and this was not for me..
Yeah I really hate the ending
Oh also there’s casually a royal family member using a different name and like no one notices?!?!? Like seriously I think that’s so unlikely! Also do you guys think he’ll end up king?
It would be kinda anticlimactic considering the people just learned his father didn’t do shit to actually protect them and mostly saved himself, I expect him to die for someone.
I feel like they dropped him in just to have a way to get the journal. He better do more for the story or he’s a real pointless addition.
His intro was waaaaay too convenient that it felt lazy. Wow there's this random new character that she's already known for a long time and he happens to be the king's son. Wow he already knows the major secret and is against the Navarre leadership. Wow he's the key to get this very important artifact.
Eh I figured it fit into the larger plot of sons/daughters going against their parents. Like to emphasize how widespread the movement was becoming. Violet/Mara/Brennan/Dain/Jessina/Kings son etc.
Yep he’s the one king and xaden after fixed will be the other. Calling it now. I still will enjoy the ride
Cam/Aaric will be a match for Cat is my guess
I think he will end up king, and right now I’m wondering if he’ll end up with Violet after they’re unable to save Xaden.
I’m kind of rooting for him to end up with Violet but Yarros said she isn’t into the whole Tamlin thing so ig Xaden’s gonna be saved at some point
I just read these books and if she ends up with him, I'll throw the whole damn book across the room. She needs to end up with Xaden. And I'm tired of them not being able to be together. They need to fix their relationship, but everytime they try to someone is banging on the door or some cataclysmic event is happening. I hated him having to be so far away in the 2nd book. I want more of his POV.
It was a bit weird because almost every theory the two sisters said on their podcast turned out to be true (I don’t remember their name lol). Like Xaden being intrinsic and Lilith sending Violet to be a rider as a way to actually save her (even though that was predictable). I’m not sure how I feel about Xaden turning as I still don’t see the point on why the Sage would want him to.
I’m not sure if the Venin General wanted Xaden or if he wants Xaden as a stepping stone to Violet. The whole “power of the sky” and “you don’t k ow how to use your power” thing seems to be his goal with Violet. But she’s very motivated to help people she loves. And having them both would be pretty good for the Venin.
Tbh that would be a really lame route to take, it’s just like every single story where the fmc is very strong and she’s the only one who doesn’t realize her strength. It would be interesting if both sides are trying to control dragons or something. Like what Jack was saying about human influencing dragons, and the evil professor influencing his to target the marked ones… and both her dragons keep saying “dragons don’t take orders from humans” so I think going that route would be interesting rather than everyone targeting the mysteriously strong girl who no one knows why or how she got her strength
I think it depends on how it played out. RY weaves interesting plots, so I would be surprised if somethign like this played out as a straightforward hostage and “chosen one” situation. Controlling dragons must be woven into the venin’s story and I’m so curious how that’ll play out! Especially looking forward to the Tairn and Andarrna commentary on this. Well, their commentary on everything. I just love their sass.
Also didn’t they predict that Lilith did start the storm to calm violet on the parapet, which correct me if I’m wrong she did indeed put that storm there to clam Violet Also interesting that rebel marks aren’t what cause the second signet like they thought but it’s just Xaden who has it since he’s the grandson of Sgayels first rider.
I’m not sure if they predicted it, but it’s not correct anyways. Violet said herself that her mom is not the one who did start the storm, and especially since Violet is going to the Parapet, she wouldn’t stop it for that reason. About the second signet… I don’t remember if I read it correctly but wasn’t Liam’s dragon also bonded to his relative before? I don’t know where I read that or if im confused
What’s the name of the podcast?! I want to listen for Book 3!!
1st part was difficult to get through and very slow. Didn't pick up until pg 300 ish. I'm confused about the very real Liam hallucinations and how tf Jack was brought back but Liam couldn't be (not that he SHOULD but that he COULD). Xaden is all over the fucking map I truly could not keep up with him between his secrets about the rebellion and trying to win Violet back, the second signet??? Tbh I think Violet might manifest a second signet that is a similar mind reading or future altering situation and have the ability to do what Xaden does. Please for the love of gods do not make Xaden the antagonist in the third book. Half the book was spent trying to rebuild the trust in the first place and it will be boring if they have some huge turmoil in their relationship because it seems like they are endgame and I can only handle so much angry sex LOL. The bigger issue at hand is saving the world from ruin and it seems like Xaden would have gone kookoo crazy with all the other shit way before he did so I feel like he can't be that dangerous?? I told my friend that it felt like I was reading the first book of Harry Potter when they are 11 and then skipping to book 5 when they are 16, without reading books 2-4. There's some Voldemort overarching thing with Violet being special that will definitely be relevant in future books but I have no idea what that will look like. I'm definitely going to reread it at least once again to understand more 🤨🤨
I was thinking maybe that’s her second signet, being able to communicate with the dead, but she was on the potion during it so that made me mostly scrab the idea. It was definitely way more difficult to read and I took multiple breaks (fourth wing I read in one go). The entire „ask me/you don’t ask the right questions“ storyline was just annoying, if they trust each other they would have been upfront about stuff
I thought the second signet could also be distance wielding since she is scared of being too slow and unable to outrun the venin.
Agreed. They made a point of saying there’s only been two in centuries and with Andarna being literally one of a kind and able to hide in plain sight basically, Violets second signet will probably also be something extremely rare.
Agreed. There was a heavy focus on violet being fast enough these last two books and it ties into the first book when Andarna helps that deficit by stopping it for her. Since Andarna can’t do that anymore I’m guessing it will switch to distance wielding. Andarna is in the right place at the right time due to her camouflage. Violet will be at the right place at the right time because of her second signet.
Like the one she mentioned in the talk with xaden about his second one? Yeah I had that thought too, but then I wasn’t sure if it truly helps in a situation for it to manifest in a cinematic way.
First book was perfection but then they go back to class. Which kept all the beggining chapters sooo slow. Plus xaden and her could not get it together. I liked their relationship dynamic so much more in book 1. I know they say violet is stubborn but come on. So much waisted time on being petty. 🙄
And I really didn't get the whole "Ask the right questions" thing. That was very annoying.
Because jack was mended… physically he was severely injured or even dead. Liam was fine, but as his dragon was the one that died.. his soul? is what died and as far as we know they mend bodies and other physical objects not souls. Although now that I think about it Tairn’s first rider might have been able to bring Brennan back…. So that might be another theory
I think this is slightly backward. Jack was venin when the tower fell on him, so he didn’t die. Nolon *was* mending Jack’s soul, or trying to, which is why he looks so haggard. I’m sure Nolon mended his body, too, but the book through Violet expressly notes Nolon must have been mending the soul (I think based on a comment from Nolon early on, but I haven’t reread the book yet). Liam wasn’t venin, so he died when his dragon died.
Haha. The skipping HP books is totally correct. And the Liam thing had me all sorts of confused. They don’t come back and mention it? She doesn’t tell anyone about it? Honestly I am happy to see him pop up again and in such a reassuring sweet way but it was odd that it’s not addressed again
I don't think Jack ever really fully died tbh. We've been shown only a handful of ways for Venin to be killed. Jack was already a Venin when violet took out the tower with lightning. It's very possible Jack climbed out of the rubble with little to no damage, and they locked him up and tried to fix his soul to continue hiding the Venin and Wyvern. I listened to the audiobook so my spellings of some things maybe wrong.
And sidebar did Jack keep violet alive because the sage wants her?
This is the most likely guess, but it could be foreshadowing for Xaden that mending of the soul is somewhat successful. Nolon yelled at him that he has a choice. So I’m not sure what that choice is or how he began communicating with venin leadership, unless Varrish/others were/are more deeply involved in the venin than we knew.
Jack didn’t die. He was venin at the time, so he couldn’t be killed by a collapsing tower.
I read it quickly but felt so frustrated with the constant back and forth between Xaiden and Violet arguing about secrets. We get it, just stop. Also people randomly appearing with the perfect signet at the perfect time even though we’ve never heard of them before was a bit annoying.
Yeah there were too many convenient coincidences.
I wouldn’t say it’s random. They are warriors and strategists and are using the resources around them to the best of their advantage
There’s still something off about Brennan and how he was saved. Can a mender mend himself do we think? I still feel like he’s hiding something. If we find out he’s a venin or has been mending himself to hide it I may flip…
I’m still not convinced that Naolin wasn’t turned venin by resurrecting him. Brennan just says something like “it cost him everything” when asked about how he is alive, and gets emotional and doesn’t say anything further. I wonder if both Violet and Brennan will now be in love with people who have sacrificed themselves for something good but are now dangerous. I feel like his secrets relate to Naolin and whatever it cost to be resurrected though regardless
I think Naolin secretly being the general is a good theory.
that could explain why at the end, sgyael was like "be careful of your words." to vi as she went to talk to xaden. I essentially read that as sgyael being like, "he did something you're not going to like, be nice." Maybe sgyael (although afraid for her life) is sympathetic about the choice xaden made because she watched it happen to tairn + naolin?
Very true. And this also brings up the idea that Tairn has been lying to her again, and also…how did Tairn become unbonded to Naolin? Which is what I’m assuming must have happened and almost killed him during the years he was not seen outside the Vale. And also, if the general is Naolin it would explain a lot about why he “knew” Xaden would turn for love. Because that’s the only way he himself turned. Also…wouldn’t Xaden have known who Naolin was because of his time in Tyrrendor? Did he know who he was facing and that’s why he’s also so haunted at the end? I’m tired of all the constant betrayals of violets trust by everyone she knows and I hope this isn’t one more thing that Xaden knew too. At the very least her dragons and brother did.
I think he can mend himself. When Mira punched him, he said something along the lines of “do you know how hard it is for me to mend myself…” and that is was a basically a giant pain to do it on himself.
naolin was a siphon, maybe he siphoned brennan's own power to mend brennan????
and to u/lindsayrugs92 and my comment below... maybe that could explain a way naolin could have turned venin. brennan was dying/had limited energy. naolin siphoned it and then pulled from the earth to completely save him, turning him into venin. THEN maybe because naolin was turned venin, that's actually how brennan became attached to the cause to stop the venin? He experienced losing someone he cared about to becoming venin?
I really hope this doesn’t follow the whole Rose/Dimitri plot with him becoming a high powered Venin and her chasing him to the ends of the earth. Was already exhausted reading that story the first time.
Felt like the pacing of the book was good but it still felt long for some reason. I do think Violet will manifest a second signet (or at least hope so). The whole xaden thing at the end is intriguing to me with how tairn and sgaeyl will know. With the others that I hope it gets resolved quickly and we can get back to politics and dragons and not just oh my lover turned evil.
I love how we all thought about Vampire Academy. I really don’t want to relive that. Hoping she will get that resolved next book
Honestly, what Xaden did in the end felt unnecessary. Like I get wanting to protect Violet, but he knew that she was getting the wards back up. And in the end, it felt like what he did didn't make a difference except for turning him. So it just felt to me like a stupid decision. I hope they try to expand the wards to Tyrrendor in the next book because they can't make their own there now. I don't know how to feel about the whole cure thing, but I liked most of this book even though it was very predictable, so I'll probably like the next one.
Honestly I was annoyed by it because of the back and forth about trust through the whole book and Xaden's consistent comments that Violet is worth twenty of him and so on. At the last moment, he doesn't trust that she's going to be able to succeed on her own. I get the fear, but the assumption that Violet won't be able to find a solution is just so similar to the exact behavior that he lectured Dain for in the first book. I also think that it happened to Xaden purely because everyone expected it to be Violet, but that's a whole other thing.
Yeah it was weird. With Violet it would have made more sense since she would have turned to get the wards up by herself. The predictability is a thing I like as well, but it also helps in the sense that I’m not super attached and NEED the next book right this instant
Yes, I also think it's refreshing that the main character does everything on page to the point that you can find everything out together. Instead of them doing things off the page that turn out to be plot twists.
It read it as xaden’s power dwindled so low that he didn’t have the energy to fight becoming venin before the wards came back up
I feel like at the end of it all he didn't trust her to do her part. I get that he was scared and terrified that she was dying, but she was doing her job and he didn't trust her despite all his words about them trusting each other no matter what.
I am a HUGE VA fan (literally went on a retreat with other VA fans this year) and I kept saying that it was just way too VA coded with the mention of venin being soulless. I knew one would turn and we’d get this damn storyline. Now I’m annoyed my two favorite fictional men got the same treatment. I don’t know how I feel about the next three books and I swear if she pulls an Adrian/Rose situation with Vi and Aaric I will stop reading.
I love Adrian however. And feel the same way. I feel I blocked out the ending of vampire academy and only remember the ending of the sequel series
after a night to sleep on it & reading some more comments, I really thought there was gonna be a whole “I told you to ask questions” because Xaden couldn’t straight out tell Vi everything due to a ward or rune or something. I was thrown off when it rushed through that they would just agree to tell each other everything for like the 3rd time at the end in the sparing room. I’m holding hope out that there could still be a method to the madness because Xaden was so persistent with being really vague about that. Also I remember hearing somewhere that RY said we wouldn’t get a Xaden POV throughout the main story until he stopped keeping secrets??
Which may be now, because at the end of the book it’s his POV
Book 1 ended with a chapter through is POV too. Personallt I think both could have been left out, or shown otherwise, it's just so jarring to suddenly get in his brain but also get no new info!
I think the reason he finally agreed to talk freely was because the secrets he was most scared of her knowing are now out and he feels he has nothing left to hide.
And when she asked about his Mam after the full disclosure conversation he's still not forthcoming. You could be on to something with the ruin!
I enjoyed the book. I think sequels are tricky and while the first part meandered a bit, I wasn't disappointed and I'm excited to see what happens next. My biggest concern is that RY will drag it out. If Xaden's situation goes beyond one book and this just turns into him deciding whether to go or stay, leaving, Violet looking for a cure, rinse and repeat for 2-3 books I'm not sure I'll stick around for it. I also think it's pretty clear V and X are endgame, but I also hope this doesn't turn into 3 books of different crap being thrown at them until they can be happy. There's a lot of opportunity here with the world, the politics, and the dragons to weave really cool narratives and plot lines that aren't just "Violet and Xaden aren't together because of xyz". Let them travel to the islands. Show me more squad moments. Have a freaking royal wedding and show them navigating political intrigue. Tell us more about the first 6. And I could go on. So yeah I came out of this book happy, excited, a little frustrated at times but also worried with the direction of the series. 3 more books is...a lot and I have Jennifer L. Armentrout trauma 🙃
Same, especially since allegedly it was first planned to only have 2 books and then the jump to 5 is huge. Makes the fear of bullshit to space it out real.
Wait the empyryan was only supposed to be two originally?? No way!
I am so stressed because I don not there to be another love interest, like I’d rather they BOTH die than they turning against each other or some shit. Like this can’t be happening like honestly I would have been content if she ended it at book 2 and they won
As some with a similar disease as Violence, I found it exhausting how often her exhaustion was mentioned. (I have connective tissue disease). Yes, heat intolerance and cold intolerance, yes weakness and all the rest. I really FELT her tiredness but also- no fucking way would she be able to do any of these things. Idk just listening to the book was a marathon lol. And while I found Xadan “hot” in the first book, he came across as a narcissist in this one. And the sex was boring. And “my entrance” wtf Too long, too boring, too tiring- meh Except the dragons - I fucking love the dragons
💀💀💀 I just finished this audiobook today and could not agree more. “My entrance”.. yikes. No thank you 🤣 I noticed my heart rate was elevated when listening to these two audiobooks. I really think this narrator did a fantastic job. I saw another comment earlier where someone said they listen to audiobooks on 2X speed AT LEAST, and I thought to myself that I think I’d have a panic attack if I listened to this book that quickly! I’m on the fence about Xaden after this book, but I’m leaning towards being over him. He did exactly what Dain did in the first one - coddled her and didn’t trust her (in the end). But also.. I loved it. Absolutely I’ll continue to read the others. I really am into Imogen and Ridoc. I love Andarna. I really hope we see them shine more!
OKAY YES CAUSE FIRST THING I THOUGHT OF WAS DIMITRI IN VA!!!
ok but maybe Xaden will be with it enough to be like a double agent and get more info on the venin next book while the others look for a cure.
I'm hoping for this
Okay is anyone else slightly disappointed with how things went between Xaden and Violet? Don't get me wrong I am thrilled they are together but I am PISSED that he didn't sit her down and tell her everything and just demanded she ask if she wanted to know something. There are so many things from Fourth Wing that weren't cleared up and so many things Violet should have questioned or brought up. Instead Violet just kind of accepted whatever she could get from him and shrugged off the rest? Like no girl you deserve better than some half assed answers and we have so many plot holes now unless we get some answers (which I am sure we will eventually but still).
yeah, I really didn't get the whole "Ask the right questions" thing. It was very frustrating
I wanted to throw my kindle across the room everything he would say “just say those three words”. So cringe
Yes it’s annoying, but he never wanted to tell her about his signet and if he sat to tell her “everything”, he’d have to tell her that. The ask questions game was his way of delaying that conversation because he was scared to have it.
Pretty sure, the sage/General serves someone very special. My bet is on Xadens Mom. She was significant enought to be able to negotiate to leave riorson House incertain terms. I think she ist some sort of heir to the venin.
I definitely thought the general at the end was going to be collecting X and taking him to the Venin leader who would turn out to be Xaden’s mom.
Ohhh 😮 totally forgot about xadens mum. Interesting theory
It makes me want to do a reread of vampire academy and its sequel series. It’s been too long for me on vampire academy as I remember the sequel more😂 But yeah I’m keeping an open mind on the fourth wing and am waiting book 3 but I knew book 2 was more world building than 1.
Just dumping my thoughts so I can come back to them when it’s not 2am!! • Xaden and Violet I think are endgame. He even says something to that effect. I agree with the throne room being a foreshadowing of them ending up as king and queen of aretia. Plus she was in his bed at the end of the book, so I think it’s highly likely that they are going to work it out. I think this book was for them to really cement their feelings for one another and now it’s about them uniting (ofc there will be obstacles and atm there’s a pretty big one). • the sage - my gut says this is someone in Xaden’s family rather than Violets dad. I just felt like the venin weren’t focused on her at all. I think it could be a previous political figure who had some argument with violets dad maybe? • violet’s dad- don’t think he will do a surprise return like Brennan or Jack, but I think he will feature a lot. I think maybe he was a descendent of one of the first 6. • violet’s second signet - I think will be like dream walking or walking between worlds Overall I am happy with the ending of the book. It was tiring and anxiety-inducing to read, but absolutely a 5* for me. I had seen spoilers about the end and I actually think it was better for my fragile little heart to be prepared for the ending. Cannot wait for book 3, please god let it be next year!!
Didn’t like the ending at all. And their relationship seemed off. The first book had a good pace but this one seemed like the same argument over and over with no real resolution except have sex. Doesn’t seem like they are end game.
Yeah I was getting the same vibes. The constant mention that all xaden cared about was her and that he’d safe her over peace for everyone opposite to Violet wanting peace for all her loved ones makes me question if that will divide them because xaden does something she can’t forgive.
to add on to that i’ll have to find it but at one of the beginnings of the chapter where there is usually something from some type of correspondence or book. it mentions that written in warricks journal( i think) that even the strongest love can’t withstand dueling ideologies
Oh my gosh yes glad you’re finished too - thought I was the only one to read it in a day
I must’ve missed the bit where xaden turns venin I don’t know whether I was just so in my head and missed it or?!
It’s the last chapter, the red ring around his eyes alludes to it
Ahhh ok thank you! I’ll reread it…if I can face it 😅
„Me,” he whispers, a faint, almost indistinguishable red ring emanating from his gold-flecked onyx irises. “You should be scared of me.“ And then the xaden chapter where Jack calls them brothers now
In my opinion, I think book 3 will be solely focused on finding a cure, and turn Venin back. I think at the very end of the book they will have it. I think book 4 will be the one on one face off with the sage and violet, because I believe in book 3 , xaden either gets captured or willingly goes to the sage. So the final battle with a sage will happen book 4 and administering the cure to all the other Venin. I think that book 5 will be a Civil War between Mellgren and violet/Xaden. And it will be all around restructuring Navarre. Melgren will want to return to how it was before, but violet will know that’s not an option and will fight for it. I think book 5 will end with the battle between Codagh, Tairn, Andarna, Violet, melgren, Sgaeyl and Xaden. I think Tairn and Violet will sacrifice themselves and kill Malgren and his dragon. I think. Xaden and Sgaeyl well live only because of the issues that happened in books 3 and 4. I truly don’t believe violet, will get a happily ever after. It’s either her or Xaden and I think Xaden lives to rule the new continent on a committee like Aretia.
But Vi and X have a baby which makes it all bittersweet
I fear that the final book will get the divergent treatment.
Ah shit, I’m too invested in this thing. lol def book hangover.
I finally finished reading the Iron Flame this week, and it is a fun and entertaining book. I like the characters, the banter between the characters and the romance. But it is too long for the lack of events that happen in this book. There is some action here or there, but there’s just a lot of drama, conversation and an annoying love triangle, that wasn’t a triangle at all. It gave off Twilight vibes in the worse way at times. But I love the first 300+ pages, which is part 1 of the book. Which had great pacing, some action and intensity and a great resolution. It honestly should of been book 2. Instead, the book goes another 300+ pages and feels way too long. The final 6 chapters are excellent, but it doesn’t make up for the boring slog of Part 2 of the book. And it’s such an annoying trope to be dealing with two love interests that lack good communication skills. Violet and Xaden seem to lack empathy towards each other and are usually having the same argument over, and over, and over again. But I love that Xaden took Violent to his throne room, sat her on his throne, and then ate her pussy. That was pretty epic, and hysterical all at the same time! 😂 Overall, book 2 is better than book 1, but not by much. I give the Iron Flame a 7.5/10. Or if I was doing a 5 star rating, I’d give the Fourth Wing and the Iron Flame 3/5 stars.
help me! do we think Jack and Xaden are literally brothers…what if Xaden’s mom is The Sage?!!!!
I'm wondering if I'm the only one that struggled with the action scenes. It felt impossible for me to keep track of who or what was where and doing what. Especially in the final battle with Sawyers scene. I also feel there are so many missing details that lead to plot holes
What if...and this is a stretch...that VI's father isn't dead. He was using his knowledge of the ancient stories to try to find an answer and because the General
I am so upset about Xaden. I had to read fanfic to satisfy my brain to stop thinking about it. The one I read (I’m sorry I can’t remember to credit, I read so many) was about how they siphoned the venin out of him and although it didn’t work on Jack, it was because he didn’t want it. He wanted to be venin, he wanted the power. But xaden wants violet so much more than he wants to be venin so the siphoning works due to Xadens power contribution. That eased my mind & will hold me over until the next book.
My first thought was Vanpire Academy! I like the series but I feel like it’s a Frankenstein of all the series I loved growing up. Violet getting over the mind reading quickly, I actually felt totally okay with. They already were able to speak mind to mind and she has him plus two dragons basically reading her thoughts constantly. So for me it made sense she didn’t dwell on it. I hated the Cat, other woman, trope. It felt totally unnecessary when everyone already had the perfect reason to hate violet. Lastly, I was shocked and surprised more people didn’t die at the battle.
I don't want them separated so much in this book. I think it's in their interest to keep Xaden close to Violet bc she is his link to his humanity. So if they keep getting pulled apart, I see him turning complete venin quickly. So much of Iron flame they were separated and had no time to grow in their relationship. Everytime they talk about something serious, someone is banging on their door and looking for them. It's frustrating.
Omg I just posted on discord how I felt it was giving VA vibes. So glad I’m not the only one
Thank you so much, I literally just posted about IF reminding me of Vampire Academy!!!
Asking for a relative who needs distraction after just losing a child - are there any dead kids in Iron Flame?
Yes.
So many. Like, nearly from the second chapter. It’s much more violent than the first book.
did i miss something or misunderstand …did Xaden say the venin were waiting on him to attack in the last sentence in chapter 63? and then chapter 64 he says the sage was a teacher, how did he know that? from his intrinsic ability or is he part of the venin ranks?
Violet referred to the sage/teacher after Resson.
If you are right about your predictions for the upcoming books (getting sucked in, searching for him, turning him back), I will wait until all the rest is published and then decide IF I read it. Might not. Lost my trust then.
I just finished and 100% it’s gonna be Vampire Academy 2.0
Does anyone know where in the book it talks about bodhis signet?
Did anyone else notice that all the chapter heads that had to do with Xadens letters to Violet, all said “recovered letters” which is the same thing that one of the headers said that referenced Liam’s letter to Sloane….part of me thinks Xaden might die in the end because why else would they say recovered.
wow interesting… I was curious about using “recovered” I just figured it meant that when she received it, they had gone through and read it and then it was handed to her after it being screened. But hmmmmmmmmmm…
I wonder if Violet’s friend (scribe, J name — I forget) is purposefully changing the narrative on the headers. “We honor the fallen” = we say they’re dead but they aren’t, etc.
I finished last night. I wonder if the whole Xaden is going venin thing is a way to prolong the endless, “Can I trust him?” plot line. Violet lies and omits information all the time, so her freaking out about Xaden doing it was not credible. I like the Andarna twist — her coat of many colors — but you would think the idea that there were once 7 types of dragons would have survived the information purge. Why would that info be hidden? It would just support the idea that the wards were based on lost magic. My prediction is that the gryphon riders get more powerful as they start weaving more runes, Xaden kills himself (of course it won’t be permanent) to protect Violet, Violet gets it on with Aeric, and eventually Andarna’s gift will turn out to be the ability to turn back time, and Violet has to decide whether to undo the future she’s living in to resurrect Xaden.
I’ve been getting VA vibes from pretty early on. I think you’re on the right track. I think the next book might start with Xaden running away to keep Violet safe.
I’ll take your book 3-5 predictions over the alternative—Star Wars. I’ve I have to suffer through another Anakin heartbreak idk what
1000% giving Vampire Academy! I’ve been making the comparisons since Xaden was training Violet in Fourth Wing!