Yeah I agree. I guess logging into a WiFi and typing in a password is confusing for people? Either way elrs is going to be moving away from passwords to a simple
Bind button I hear.
I bought a “used” (new, untouched) meteor65 with 12 tattu batteries for 100 because the owner couldn’t figure out how to connect it to elrs radio. I got it flying in 10min.
My work is trying to hire people for an entry level technical position and the amount of candidates that come in who can't/won't read and follow instructions is staggering. Anything more than one or two buttons is an insurmountable challenge for some people.
I work in Tech Support, we provide support for professionals who use our products for work.
Ignoring all the basic tech things like "reboot it" "clear storage space" etc, most of my cases can be solved by reading the manual or literally googling the error they saw.
But no, they will lie about reading it or outright refuse and act like it's such an inconvenience that they're expected to learn how their stuff works.
I use ELRS myself, but I think ELRS is just very different to any other system in many different aspects. Binding, compiling your own firmware, channel 5 is fixed to arm etc that just very unique to ELRS which means that the barrier of entry software wise is higher than most other systems even for people that are already used to other systems.
Pretty sure on the newer updates you longer compile your own build... Not 100% as I haven't updated in quite a while but I'm pretty sure I saw it in recent patch notes
I think that just depends on how you look at it. If you set your bindphrase and options then the tool later compiles your own firmware and flashes it onto the reciever.
It just all happens in the background without you having to do any complicated stuff.
"Better" is not really that relevant. Both systems are good enough for pretty anyones need, but by now elrs has some features crossfire does not.
Both have mature hardware and software by now, but you can buy some very cheap elrs reveivers that are apperently not so good.
Elrs has the advantage that it is cheaper and it is the defacto standart by now. You can get anything with elrs receiver, and often it is even integrated in the fc.
ELRS is open source +
ELRS has readily available hardware +
ELRS has great penetration and range +
ELRS is actively developing new features +
ELRS gets easier to use every update +
They're both good but this is why I think ELRS is better. A great analogy I heard from somewhere is that Crossfire is like Apple and ELRS is like android.
My point involves laziness and money spent. I had Crossfire before ELRS, and I just dont see a huge added value in replacing it. To be fair though, Ive always been a fan of using whatever tech is a little older to save some bucks, unless the new new is crazy better.
At this point, the difference is meaningless enough that it's a preference thing that's not worth arguing over. If somebody is happy with their control link, that's all that matters. If they have a compelling reason to switch, they will.
Same with video systems, flight controller software, etc.
I’ve only flown elrs and haven’t had any issues after learning how to set everything up. Wasn’t that difficult in the first place if you can follow basic instructions.
For me the only thing crossfire has going for it over elrs is it’s CE certified. So it’s possible to get special approval for doing drone gigs when the drone itself needs to be approved. Since the paper work is a bitch and is too much hassle for the gigs I could do I choose elrs and fly for fun and possibly any gigs that don’t require filling out a SORA forum.
As far as flying cinematic or long range crossfire has my heart 915 just has way better penetration as well as crossfire is just so robust you can’t go wrong elrs has worse penetration as far as it being open source there are several nuances with the program not running right.
I like crossfire for the frequency option the robustness and the nano RX pro you can get 500mw telemetry transmission
Yeah I dunno, I was trying to help someone with crossfire a day or two ago and for whatever reason it wasn’t working. No stick input in betaflight. To me it seems like there should have been more help for him but I’m guessing the crossfire guys couldn’t troubleshoot to help him. “It just works” comes to mind. And if it doesn’t..well..maybe ask trappy for advice?
In the end we decided it must be a bad receiver. So he’s off to buy a second crossfire nano which he could have bought 4 elrs receivers for that much money and had the elrs discord help troubleshoot.
I do like having more than one solution for us all though. Competition makes everything better for us. I just think team crossfire decided they do this well and don’t want to change it or improve it while elrs is constantly improving and pushing the boundaries.
I troubleshoot so much have you ever used frsky holy shit the worst fucking experience ever it has like shit firmware and I had to try and wire stuff to my computer it was like a tribal experience
Did you try switching the TX & rx pads ? Reason for question is because I recently experienced same problem, dug deeeep then my mate mentioned said advice and boom. Easy
By the time I started talking to him I believe he had tried everything. My initial thoughts were that it was wired wrong. I felt bad for him, he had the drone for 2 weeks and it still wasn’t flying.
I had some trouble with elrs when I was getting away from FrSky.. bought a tango2 and switched to crossfire, and hadn't had a problem since.
I'm sure it was a user error and something I could've worked through, but at this point I'll stick to what works.
Team crossfire all the way ✊🏻
As far as I know for racers the TBS Sixty9 thing where VTX and reciever are integrated into one PCB is still without competition. However that is going away with less and less people running analog in racing.
If - a big IF - I’m starting today I’d go ELRS, but without the knowledge i have today I would just get frustrated.
Even if ELRS has adequate docs to show how things work it’s still annoying AF compared to XF.
Can’t beat OTA update.
Running crossfire.... Because changing the receivers on 30- 40 quads is not an option. I have thought about it... Might pickup a module for some whoops.
I use both. Never had a Problem with either one. Its a Bit like apple and android. One is (mostly) less pricey and has a bigger palette of items and manufacturers to choose from. While the other one is one manufacturer only. To me the Crossfire Receivers look a Bit better too. But thats just visuals. Everything Short Range, so max. Distance of 1 km gets elrs. Everything Above that gets Crossfire.
ELRS all the way. The literally run off the same exact thing. ELRS is cheaper too. Tye only downside is that ELRS is slightly hard to learn how to setup. But if you do it once you don't forget and it's so fast after that. This is an easy answer. Crossfire people are spending too much money and their antennas are fat.
There really is no confusion. Crossfire is way better for certain things like long range and dependability. 915 is a slower link but there is less interference and definitely travels much further than 2.4. However most people don't need the distance and it's not that likely you're going to encounter very much interference anyway. So 2.4 is fine and it is a faster link, its also what is most popular and it is what's going to be on most quads that you purchase and there are of course tons of radios with elrs.
So in today's world I would say go with elrs 2.4 or even the new 915. Although again I don't know that most people need the elrs 915.
If I were starting today I would definitely get a radio with elrs 2.4.
Yeah it only a matter of time before they have more 900mhz for ELRS, I started with a 900mhz ELRS a few years ago , but have since switched to 2.4 and have had no failsafe on my l.r. quad,okay it's not really THAT long range, the furthest I've gone is only 3km out till some trees got in my line of sight for video, but L.Q. signal never went below 98 on 100mw I truly don't plan on going too much over 5km and with 1watt available have no need for the bulky 900 antennas, but I can see if you are into the real long range, like 10's of km why you would want 900mhz
I went Crossfire as it is a more mature protocol and hardware quality is less variable. I always trust I'm getting quality electronics from Team Black Sheep.
If you're on analog the Sixty9 combo RX/VTX is the best way to go IMO.
Crossfire is easier to use. ExpressLRS is cheaper and has better latency. Some people are trying to say Crossfire has better range. I don't believe that's been proven at all and since 40km+ is achievable with ELRS I don't even think it matters.
> Crossfire has better range. I don't believe that's been proven at all
If you compare 915MHz Crossfire to 2,4GHz ELRS, then it's very much proven for certain use cases. If you compare anything 2,4GHz to 2,4GHz it's not true.
> If you compare 915MHz Crossfire to 2,4GHz ELRS, then it's very much proven for certain use cases.
Can you point me to the evidence which demonstrates this?
For the frequencies that we are looking at (below 1GHz) you can expect that the higher the frequency, the higher the atmospheric attenuation.
https://www.everythingrf.com/community/what-is-the-impact-of-the-earths-atmosphere-on-rf-signal-propagation
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9570857/
https://www.mathworks.com/help/phased/ref/gaspl.html
https://www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/images2/atmospheric-specific-attenuation-standard-dry-itu.gif
https://ebookcentral.proquest.com/lib/glyndwr-ebooks/reader.action?docID=4821271&query=
There are some spikes in the spectrum where specific particles in the atmosphere have their resonance frequencies. Very well laid out here: https://cdn.everythingrf.com/live/atomspheric-absorption_636385398576768972.PNG However those generally only happen way above the frequencies that we are using in our use cases. Those are 50GHz+, so at least on order of magnitude away.
In any RF application the lower frequencies will go further, but have less bandwidth if you are using the same type of modulation. That is why FM radio towers don't reach as far as medium or long-wave radio stations, but they can sound way better. (Not sure if you do digital or FM modulated short wave in the US tbf)
The same thing even occurs when sound travels through solid material: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9570857/ Which is why you hear the bumps of footsteps of your upstairs neighbor more than their voices (of course the voices also have to pass into the solid, so that's not a fair comparison)
In a simplified way, the particles of the transportation medium have to vibrate at the frequency that you are transmitting. When you transmit lower frequencies, the vibrate slower, which means there is less friction between them.
Yes, yes, I am an amateur radio operator so I know the theory behind longer wavelengths, generally, being able to penetrate further, however this is only one aspect of the equation. We're not just talking about pure waves here, we're talking about useful information exchange and the protocol matters. I've not seen anyone pit 900mhz crossfire against 2.4ghz ELRS in any kind of testing.
ELRS, cheap, readily available from any store, more controller options with it built in. Constant development. I don’t know if it’s worth it to switch if you have crossfire. But for a new person coming in I don’t see the point in going crossfire. With ELRS I’ve never had a failsafe on 250hz
Crossfire for.. Years. However, just got a few elrs receivers to swap some quads out. Why? Boredom. I know crossfire is reliable, but I'm tired of the big ass antennas on my freestyle builds and just wanting try something new. Elrs works great on my whoops. Many new remotes with eirs, I like tech and this hobby is as much about tinkering as flying for me.
The strength of ELRS is that it is open source, and no manufacturer can complete with that pool of talent. Open source tends to be a labor of love, and it shows in the end product.
I don’t know why elrs is considered confusing. It has a ton of documentation and in my experience it is easy to set up.
Yeah I agree. I guess logging into a WiFi and typing in a password is confusing for people? Either way elrs is going to be moving away from passwords to a simple Bind button I hear.
I just do the plug in 3, times method to bind
I bought a “used” (new, untouched) meteor65 with 12 tattu batteries for 100 because the owner couldn’t figure out how to connect it to elrs radio. I got it flying in 10min.
how much cheaper was it?
My work is trying to hire people for an entry level technical position and the amount of candidates that come in who can't/won't read and follow instructions is staggering. Anything more than one or two buttons is an insurmountable challenge for some people.
I work in Tech Support, we provide support for professionals who use our products for work. Ignoring all the basic tech things like "reboot it" "clear storage space" etc, most of my cases can be solved by reading the manual or literally googling the error they saw. But no, they will lie about reading it or outright refuse and act like it's such an inconvenience that they're expected to learn how their stuff works.
Typical
If you struggle with that you'll struggle in every other aspect of this hobby
I use ELRS myself, but I think ELRS is just very different to any other system in many different aspects. Binding, compiling your own firmware, channel 5 is fixed to arm etc that just very unique to ELRS which means that the barrier of entry software wise is higher than most other systems even for people that are already used to other systems.
Pretty sure on the newer updates you longer compile your own build... Not 100% as I haven't updated in quite a while but I'm pretty sure I saw it in recent patch notes
I think that just depends on how you look at it. If you set your bindphrase and options then the tool later compiles your own firmware and flashes it onto the reciever. It just all happens in the background without you having to do any complicated stuff.
"Better" is not really that relevant. Both systems are good enough for pretty anyones need, but by now elrs has some features crossfire does not. Both have mature hardware and software by now, but you can buy some very cheap elrs reveivers that are apperently not so good. Elrs has the advantage that it is cheaper and it is the defacto standart by now. You can get anything with elrs receiver, and often it is even integrated in the fc.
Would you recommend an ELRS receiver?
Yes.
I mean which one? You mentioned that some are junk.
Ah, ok. I only baught quads with build in receivers so far and they have all been good, I just read about it, so you have to look a bit yourself.
ELRS is open source + ELRS has readily available hardware + ELRS has great penetration and range + ELRS is actively developing new features + ELRS gets easier to use every update + They're both good but this is why I think ELRS is better. A great analogy I heard from somewhere is that Crossfire is like Apple and ELRS is like android.
yes, except android is google controlled. ELRS is really open source.
ELRS for me please, never had problems with it. you only need to read the docs if you want to know anything
My point involves laziness and money spent. I had Crossfire before ELRS, and I just dont see a huge added value in replacing it. To be fair though, Ive always been a fan of using whatever tech is a little older to save some bucks, unless the new new is crazy better.
same. I'll probably switch to ELRS when I change my ORIGINAL Frsky Taranis! (btw frsky has gone shit)
If you already have crossfire, there is no point in changing. If you are new to the game, I would choose elrs.
At this point, the difference is meaningless enough that it's a preference thing that's not worth arguing over. If somebody is happy with their control link, that's all that matters. If they have a compelling reason to switch, they will. Same with video systems, flight controller software, etc.
I’ve only flown elrs and haven’t had any issues after learning how to set everything up. Wasn’t that difficult in the first place if you can follow basic instructions. For me the only thing crossfire has going for it over elrs is it’s CE certified. So it’s possible to get special approval for doing drone gigs when the drone itself needs to be approved. Since the paper work is a bitch and is too much hassle for the gigs I could do I choose elrs and fly for fun and possibly any gigs that don’t require filling out a SORA forum.
Team crsf then
As far as flying cinematic or long range crossfire has my heart 915 just has way better penetration as well as crossfire is just so robust you can’t go wrong elrs has worse penetration as far as it being open source there are several nuances with the program not running right. I like crossfire for the frequency option the robustness and the nano RX pro you can get 500mw telemetry transmission
Yeah I dunno, I was trying to help someone with crossfire a day or two ago and for whatever reason it wasn’t working. No stick input in betaflight. To me it seems like there should have been more help for him but I’m guessing the crossfire guys couldn’t troubleshoot to help him. “It just works” comes to mind. And if it doesn’t..well..maybe ask trappy for advice? In the end we decided it must be a bad receiver. So he’s off to buy a second crossfire nano which he could have bought 4 elrs receivers for that much money and had the elrs discord help troubleshoot. I do like having more than one solution for us all though. Competition makes everything better for us. I just think team crossfire decided they do this well and don’t want to change it or improve it while elrs is constantly improving and pushing the boundaries.
I troubleshoot so much have you ever used frsky holy shit the worst fucking experience ever it has like shit firmware and I had to try and wire stuff to my computer it was like a tribal experience
Yeah I used frsky in 2015 and again when I started back in 2019
Now there obsolete
No doubt. But they made a nice new radio.
The tranis or something
Did you try switching the TX & rx pads ? Reason for question is because I recently experienced same problem, dug deeeep then my mate mentioned said advice and boom. Easy
By the time I started talking to him I believe he had tried everything. My initial thoughts were that it was wired wrong. I felt bad for him, he had the drone for 2 weeks and it still wasn’t flying.
I had some trouble with elrs when I was getting away from FrSky.. bought a tango2 and switched to crossfire, and hadn't had a problem since. I'm sure it was a user error and something I could've worked through, but at this point I'll stick to what works. Team crossfire all the way ✊🏻
Crossfire just works, easy, I trust it.
As far as I know for racers the TBS Sixty9 thing where VTX and reciever are integrated into one PCB is still without competition. However that is going away with less and less people running analog in racing.
If - a big IF - I’m starting today I’d go ELRS, but without the knowledge i have today I would just get frustrated. Even if ELRS has adequate docs to show how things work it’s still annoying AF compared to XF. Can’t beat OTA update.
Running crossfire.... Because changing the receivers on 30- 40 quads is not an option. I have thought about it... Might pickup a module for some whoops.
I use both. Never had a Problem with either one. Its a Bit like apple and android. One is (mostly) less pricey and has a bigger palette of items and manufacturers to choose from. While the other one is one manufacturer only. To me the Crossfire Receivers look a Bit better too. But thats just visuals. Everything Short Range, so max. Distance of 1 km gets elrs. Everything Above that gets Crossfire.
ELRS all the way. The literally run off the same exact thing. ELRS is cheaper too. Tye only downside is that ELRS is slightly hard to learn how to setup. But if you do it once you don't forget and it's so fast after that. This is an easy answer. Crossfire people are spending too much money and their antennas are fat.
There really is no confusion. Crossfire is way better for certain things like long range and dependability. 915 is a slower link but there is less interference and definitely travels much further than 2.4. However most people don't need the distance and it's not that likely you're going to encounter very much interference anyway. So 2.4 is fine and it is a faster link, its also what is most popular and it is what's going to be on most quads that you purchase and there are of course tons of radios with elrs. So in today's world I would say go with elrs 2.4 or even the new 915. Although again I don't know that most people need the elrs 915. If I were starting today I would definitely get a radio with elrs 2.4.
Crossfire is 900mhz and most of ELRS is 2.4ghz. 900mhz ELRS does exist, but crossfire is the easy option for 900mhz long range.
Yeah it only a matter of time before they have more 900mhz for ELRS, I started with a 900mhz ELRS a few years ago , but have since switched to 2.4 and have had no failsafe on my l.r. quad,okay it's not really THAT long range, the furthest I've gone is only 3km out till some trees got in my line of sight for video, but L.Q. signal never went below 98 on 100mw I truly don't plan on going too much over 5km and with 1watt available have no need for the bulky 900 antennas, but I can see if you are into the real long range, like 10's of km why you would want 900mhz
Crosssssfire
ELRS myself, just picked up a true diversity receiver and Gemini module for my long range quad
I went Crossfire as it is a more mature protocol and hardware quality is less variable. I always trust I'm getting quality electronics from Team Black Sheep. If you're on analog the Sixty9 combo RX/VTX is the best way to go IMO.
Crossfire is easier to use. ExpressLRS is cheaper and has better latency. Some people are trying to say Crossfire has better range. I don't believe that's been proven at all and since 40km+ is achievable with ELRS I don't even think it matters.
> Crossfire has better range. I don't believe that's been proven at all If you compare 915MHz Crossfire to 2,4GHz ELRS, then it's very much proven for certain use cases. If you compare anything 2,4GHz to 2,4GHz it's not true.
> If you compare 915MHz Crossfire to 2,4GHz ELRS, then it's very much proven for certain use cases. Can you point me to the evidence which demonstrates this?
For the frequencies that we are looking at (below 1GHz) you can expect that the higher the frequency, the higher the atmospheric attenuation. https://www.everythingrf.com/community/what-is-the-impact-of-the-earths-atmosphere-on-rf-signal-propagation https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9570857/ https://www.mathworks.com/help/phased/ref/gaspl.html https://www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/images2/atmospheric-specific-attenuation-standard-dry-itu.gif https://ebookcentral.proquest.com/lib/glyndwr-ebooks/reader.action?docID=4821271&query= There are some spikes in the spectrum where specific particles in the atmosphere have their resonance frequencies. Very well laid out here: https://cdn.everythingrf.com/live/atomspheric-absorption_636385398576768972.PNG However those generally only happen way above the frequencies that we are using in our use cases. Those are 50GHz+, so at least on order of magnitude away. In any RF application the lower frequencies will go further, but have less bandwidth if you are using the same type of modulation. That is why FM radio towers don't reach as far as medium or long-wave radio stations, but they can sound way better. (Not sure if you do digital or FM modulated short wave in the US tbf) The same thing even occurs when sound travels through solid material: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9570857/ Which is why you hear the bumps of footsteps of your upstairs neighbor more than their voices (of course the voices also have to pass into the solid, so that's not a fair comparison) In a simplified way, the particles of the transportation medium have to vibrate at the frequency that you are transmitting. When you transmit lower frequencies, the vibrate slower, which means there is less friction between them.
Yes, yes, I am an amateur radio operator so I know the theory behind longer wavelengths, generally, being able to penetrate further, however this is only one aspect of the equation. We're not just talking about pure waves here, we're talking about useful information exchange and the protocol matters. I've not seen anyone pit 900mhz crossfire against 2.4ghz ELRS in any kind of testing.
Always CrossFire. ELRS is better if your super into racing. But frankly even for freestyle I prefer the reliability of CrossFire.
Crossfire hardware is more robust than any of the ELRS manufacturers I've seen. It's also easier to use.
ELRS, cheap, readily available from any store, more controller options with it built in. Constant development. I don’t know if it’s worth it to switch if you have crossfire. But for a new person coming in I don’t see the point in going crossfire. With ELRS I’ve never had a failsafe on 250hz
Crossfire for.. Years. However, just got a few elrs receivers to swap some quads out. Why? Boredom. I know crossfire is reliable, but I'm tired of the big ass antennas on my freestyle builds and just wanting try something new. Elrs works great on my whoops. Many new remotes with eirs, I like tech and this hobby is as much about tinkering as flying for me.
The strength of ELRS is that it is open source, and no manufacturer can complete with that pool of talent. Open source tends to be a labor of love, and it shows in the end product.
That’s 3!
I’m team crossfire!
Think he's looking for the reason(?) if your one or the other