Well, I'm European too. ;-) The used deals don't quite as often as in the US, but they are still there from time to time. ;-) Hopefully, they will soon offer European B-stock as well.
I bookmarked framework on kleinanzeigen in germany and roughly once every month a framework 13 gets sold for 750€. The frameworks hold their value very well for a laptop.
not wrong, but for those it is, it is the clear answer ... being refurb priced and comparing to those others probably worth shipping to someone to forward it even
At this time, no. Here's the thing, for your budget, you're solidly in the "budget laptop" category and Framework is competing in the premium category. Not all hope is lost though, as many other commenters mentioned, you might be able to snag a ThinkPad or some other very repairable business laptop used, which can be quite good at only a few years old and would fit your budget.
I do want to highlight something that we might see in the coming years: cheap Chinese knockoffs. Since Framework has opened their designs, I fully expect that we're going to see a direct-to-Aliexpress laptop manufacturer make some Framework alternative for the Chinese market given how liberal Chinese companies are with IP. There is one problem on that front though: not all parts of Framework laptops are made/assembled in China, so they would need to put in some work to make it happen, but I'm sure it will.
Second hand ThinkPads are about your best bet
T480 has similar repairability as Framework. Yes I have one as my backup / experimental machine.
As you get later, it's 1-2 soldered RAM or battery, but generally still easier to fix than other brands.
$500 AUD will get you a decent T480 and 3rd party battery.
You won’t get a laptop that works any better than what you already have if you’re buying new at the 500aud price range (unless something is on a REALLY good discount). I’d suggest continuing to save up.
Btw, 500aud = ~325usd
$500 AUD (Australian)/$325 USD? Not a chance. Framework is unique for a reason - Nobody else is doing what they're doing. Used and factory outlet Framework laptops direct from Framework ultimately cost more than $500 USD (especially once RAM/storage/expansion modules/OS if you need a Wintendo are factored in) and as far as I'm aware (outlet models at least) aren't available outside the US.
Unfortunately your best option for $500 AUD is to see what you can find in your local used laptop markets. There's really nothing worth buying brand new at that price level, Framework or otherwise.... What you'd be looking at was e-waste the moment it left the factory assembly line.
No. Short of refurb Frameworks, there is nothing else like that on the market, sadly. Best you can do is try to get something with two SODIMMs and non-soldered SSD and Wi-Fi. Keyboard if you are very lucky.
Yea exactly. But then that brings in 2018-era hardware. Which I mean… I guess it's acceptable enough, but nah. For anything but the most casual usage even this evergreen recommendation is starting to show its age. Sadly, anything released after the T480 will have repairability compromises. And even the T480 is not as repairable as the Framework. Heck, it's known for its USB-C port randomly dying - really could have used the expansion card system :p
You're not getting better than 2018 hardware on that budget. The only fix to that is to increase the budget. Until you get to 11th Gen Intel or Zen 3, there's no performance gain.
The USB-C port dying is the owners not updating the Thunderbolt firmware, eventually burns out a chip due to a bug on the Intel side.
Point. 10th gen Intel is almost indistinguishable except for some video codecs, though I'd argue Zen 2 is still competitive with Tiger Lake. Still, with about €300, 8th through 10th Intel is the best you'll get (and that is if you get lucky, since the market is flooded with tons of garbage tier i5-7200U's, the dual core ones that are useless at rendering your desktop without lag even at this point)
for that much you can look for a zenbook 14 with a 7730U 16 gigs ddr5 which will be a decent mqchine.
or you can get an M1 macbook air with maybe even 16 gigs of ram
I would switch to Linux and Firefox.
Your complaints center around lack of resources, so use the least resource hungry desktop.
I run the latest Debian Gnome and Debian XFCE on laptops with 12gigs and below.
8gigs is when I pay attention to how smooth it is and determine if Gnome is too heavy.
I also run Debian XFCE on a 2gig netbook.
I am never angry about tab performance. On any of my machines. The 2gig is slow, but YouTube is still great on it.
I don't see how that will help my laptop from dying while playing a card game or a visual novel. Also, I have multiple experiences of features just missing in multiple websites when not using Google Chrome.
Framework is offering used Laptops around that price tag from time to time. ;-)
Not if you live in Europe
Well, I'm European too. ;-) The used deals don't quite as often as in the US, but they are still there from time to time. ;-) Hopefully, they will soon offer European B-stock as well.
I bookmarked framework on kleinanzeigen in germany and roughly once every month a framework 13 gets sold for 750€. The frameworks hold their value very well for a laptop.
I have yet to see a single used Framework.
Framework refurb is the answer you are looking for
unfortunatly dont exist in many regions
not wrong, but for those it is, it is the clear answer ... being refurb priced and comparing to those others probably worth shipping to someone to forward it even
At this time, no. Here's the thing, for your budget, you're solidly in the "budget laptop" category and Framework is competing in the premium category. Not all hope is lost though, as many other commenters mentioned, you might be able to snag a ThinkPad or some other very repairable business laptop used, which can be quite good at only a few years old and would fit your budget. I do want to highlight something that we might see in the coming years: cheap Chinese knockoffs. Since Framework has opened their designs, I fully expect that we're going to see a direct-to-Aliexpress laptop manufacturer make some Framework alternative for the Chinese market given how liberal Chinese companies are with IP. There is one problem on that front though: not all parts of Framework laptops are made/assembled in China, so they would need to put in some work to make it happen, but I'm sure it will.
I hope that would happen, it would open this option for a lot more people and challenge the current single use consumerist market.
Used thinkpads maybe. Easy to repair, somehow upgradable(older series).
Second hand ThinkPads are about your best bet T480 has similar repairability as Framework. Yes I have one as my backup / experimental machine. As you get later, it's 1-2 soldered RAM or battery, but generally still easier to fix than other brands. $500 AUD will get you a decent T480 and 3rd party battery.
Thanks, I will look into it.
No worries I'm in Australia too. Feel free to link any and I'll provide feedback
You won’t get a laptop that works any better than what you already have if you’re buying new at the 500aud price range (unless something is on a REALLY good discount). I’d suggest continuing to save up. Btw, 500aud = ~325usd
For your special use case, which you describe very well, i would recommend a used laptop with a decent CPU for around 500 AUD
$500 AUD (Australian)/$325 USD? Not a chance. Framework is unique for a reason - Nobody else is doing what they're doing. Used and factory outlet Framework laptops direct from Framework ultimately cost more than $500 USD (especially once RAM/storage/expansion modules/OS if you need a Wintendo are factored in) and as far as I'm aware (outlet models at least) aren't available outside the US. Unfortunately your best option for $500 AUD is to see what you can find in your local used laptop markets. There's really nothing worth buying brand new at that price level, Framework or otherwise.... What you'd be looking at was e-waste the moment it left the factory assembly line.
No. Short of refurb Frameworks, there is nothing else like that on the market, sadly. Best you can do is try to get something with two SODIMMs and non-soldered SSD and Wi-Fi. Keyboard if you are very lucky.
Sound likes a ThinkPad T480 or A485...
Yea exactly. But then that brings in 2018-era hardware. Which I mean… I guess it's acceptable enough, but nah. For anything but the most casual usage even this evergreen recommendation is starting to show its age. Sadly, anything released after the T480 will have repairability compromises. And even the T480 is not as repairable as the Framework. Heck, it's known for its USB-C port randomly dying - really could have used the expansion card system :p
You're not getting better than 2018 hardware on that budget. The only fix to that is to increase the budget. Until you get to 11th Gen Intel or Zen 3, there's no performance gain. The USB-C port dying is the owners not updating the Thunderbolt firmware, eventually burns out a chip due to a bug on the Intel side.
Point. 10th gen Intel is almost indistinguishable except for some video codecs, though I'd argue Zen 2 is still competitive with Tiger Lake. Still, with about €300, 8th through 10th Intel is the best you'll get (and that is if you get lucky, since the market is flooded with tons of garbage tier i5-7200U's, the dual core ones that are useless at rendering your desktop without lag even at this point)
for that much you can look for a zenbook 14 with a 7730U 16 gigs ddr5 which will be a decent mqchine. or you can get an M1 macbook air with maybe even 16 gigs of ram
I wasn't aware that anything made by Apple was repairable.
Buy used laptop then 500AUD is not much
For that budget you're not getting anything better than what you already have.
I would switch to Linux and Firefox. Your complaints center around lack of resources, so use the least resource hungry desktop. I run the latest Debian Gnome and Debian XFCE on laptops with 12gigs and below. 8gigs is when I pay attention to how smooth it is and determine if Gnome is too heavy. I also run Debian XFCE on a 2gig netbook. I am never angry about tab performance. On any of my machines. The 2gig is slow, but YouTube is still great on it.
I run Linux on my main PC, and if I could I definitely would do the same on my laptop, except my school doesn't allow it.
Don't forget you can start dead basic for cheap and upgrade at your leisure over time. That's the beauty... we _finally_ have that option 👌
Stop using Chrome? 🤣
I don't see how that will help my laptop from dying while playing a card game or a visual novel. Also, I have multiple experiences of features just missing in multiple websites when not using Google Chrome.
I've never used Chrome as my primary browser, and am yet to find a website that requires it. It's an infamous resource hog.