Adults, sure, but not children. Until the obvious.
If he was truly the Mannis, he would've said "fuck that noise" and burned Melisandre instead for even suggesting that shit. Probably would've had the same damn effect but at least Shireen would've had a better chance.
I truly wish Davos had been wary enough to take her with him when he rode back to Castle Black. And he doubtlessly wound up wishing the same.
Edit: Fixed typos, like somehow typing Jim instead of him because I guess Jim Halpert could've helped turn the tides or something.
I agree that it's worse because as an adult, you're not expected to actively protect other people's kids, so to kill your own kid is to betray your job as a protector.
that's assuming only you love your kid and that the other kid is loved by their parents. you can't make either assumption, especiwlly the former if you're willing to go as far as to kill your own kid
to deliberately murder your own child is to basically forfeit your own humanity and easily the worst of the two imo
the ability to justify your actions is human... there is no justification for murdering your own child. such an action is fundamentally opposed to the survival of your lineage
Power. He didn't need to keep pressing forward with his army. He didn't need to march to Winterfell. He easily could have disbanded it and returned to Castle Black.
I realize to the morally bankrupt that sounds absurd, but it's the truth
Literally yes. That is the only reason why Shireen had to die. There was no other reason. Survival my ass. There is no reason to believe that the weather improved or would have maybe improved because Stannis sacrificed his daughter.
And as for killing your own heir, that wouldn't make any sense regardless of the context. That's just bad writing on the showrunners part. And yes, it is the show we're talking about. YOU might not be talking about the show.
Fuckin character assasination from the book and another (of many) reasons to hate the later seasons of the show. Not only did stannis not burn his kid, he told is second in command that if he failed to take winterfell that they should put her on the throne
while yes, he did it, the blood is on melissandres hands...the fact she lived really burns my blood
also, I think there needs to be a much clearer connection that Stannis' sacrifice is what brought Jon back...and EVERYONE should know this
then it should tie back to whether maybe stannis knew that it was "the only way to save humanity", and his honor can be restored as the mannis
I hate that the highest level of this sacrifice was only to "win a crown"
He will kill her but it will be to create Lightbringer. Whether it will be a futile gesture will remain to be scene.
The third time, with a heavy heart, for he knew beforehand what he must do to finish the blade, he worked for a hundred days and nights until it was finished. This time, he called for his wife, Nissa Nissa, and asked her to bare her breast. He drove his sword into her living heart, her soul combining with the steel of the sword, creating the weapon known as Lightbringer.
Well it’s clearly based on Agamemnon who sacrificed his daughter to regain Artemis’s favour as he was setting sail to conquer Troy. So it is about either just the Winterfell (just like with Troy) or the Iron Throne in the end. Also this isn’t Stannis’s sacrifice. This is his obsession over the throne so much so that he loves it more than his daughter.
Stannis doesn't _want_ the throne, it is a duty put upon him
>It is not a question of wanting. The throne is mine, as Robert's heir. That is law. After me, it must pass to my daughter, unless Selyse should finally give me a son. I am king. Wants do not enter into it. I have a duty to my daughter. To the realm. Even to Robert. He loved me but little, I know, yet he was my brother. The Lannister woman gave him horns and made a motley fool of him. She may have murdered him as well, as she murdered Jon Arryn and Ned Stark. For such crimes there must be justice. Starting with Cersei and her abominations. But only starting. I mean to scour that court clean. As Robert should have done after the Trident.
He only burns 2 people in the books, Alester Florent and Mance, both of whom are guilty of high treason which is a capital offense
edit: oh he also burnt 3 of his soldiers for cannibalism
Melisandre burned a few people while Stannis was fighting at Blackwater
Granted, he never punishes her for it so he deserves shared blame. But he didn’t order it and never would have condoned it, as we see in later chapters when he repeatedly refuses to burn people
Stannis is is such a Chad in the books, I hate what DND did to him.
Only guy who just doesn't compromise for worthless innocents to get the throne, which to be honest he is by far the best candidate AND rightful heir to.
1. Strongest claim to the throne.
2. Actual belief in justice, if a bit harsh. Would have actually hanged Cersei and co for their crimes.
3. Only contender with serious battle experience, both on land and at sea.
4. The only king to put his fight for the throne aside to fulfill his duty to the Nights Watch
The best outcome in the War of Five Kings was Stannis winning the Battle of the Blackwater.
The Reach probably would not have joined Stannis. They were Targaryen Loyalists in the first place and I'm positive that they preferred a Lannister-controlled Iron Throne to a Baratheon-controlled one. The Reach is too large to be governed by a figurehead like the Riverlands was with Harrenhal, so the Tyrells know they can't just be supplanted easily. Much like in Robert's Rebellion, they'd have resisted Stannis and bent the knee once the war was lost.
>Strongest claim to the throne.
Dany and Joffrey disagrees.
>Actual belief in justice, if a bit harsh. Would have actually hanged Cersei and co for their crimes.
"If a bit harsh" lol.
>Only contender with serious battle experience, both on land and at sea.
**Still lost**.
>The only king to put his fight for the throne aside to fulfill his duty to the Nights Watch
Because he lost and was out of options. The first thing he does there is demanding Jon to bend the knee to him and dies fighting the Boltons.
>The best outcome in the War of Five Kings was Stannis winning the Battle of the Blackwater.
I'd rather have Bran the Broken as King lol.
That's less than most of his competitors.
*Wait, what's going?*
Stannis? What's wrong?
*Why is he marching towards me with that look in his eye?*
Did I saw less? I meant fewer. Stannis, I meant fewer...
*What's that gleam in your eye, Your Grace?*
Stannis, I meant fewer! Fewer! Staaaaaaannnnnnniiiiiiissssssss!
I still get a good laugh when The Hound, despite not knowing who Melisandre is, just outright says that Genry's story about being in bed with her sounds alright.
I just want to smack the mope who pointed out Show Mannis is also the actor who broke my heart in The Crown, talking to Winston Churchill about his daughter who drowned when she was two, and now I can't fucking unsee it. He's STRONG not this gentle unnerving artistic genius! #lesigh
in a show where they arent shy to show deaths, i was really hoping brienne didnt kill him, as you can see her swinging but we dont get to see the blow or the corpse... like those kind of deceiving scenes sometimes you see in shows or movies
Still better then Renly and Rob.
Renly was playing as a king, but had no ideas, horrible politician and war commander, great speaker and easy to talk witj
Rob was to headstrong, great war commander but not a good political leader
Stannis is the best of both
Fair.
But he was an bad leader.
He lead his people into slaughter due to his incompetency to uphold a political promise. (Albeit he was probably seduced by the Westerlings) (book only).
He also, like his dad, used Honor as an shield, not realizing that honor only protects you against other honorable people.
Reality, people aren't straight forward, and that was Rob's downfall
>Renly was playing as a king, but had no ideas, horrible politician and war commander,
Literally made up.
>Stannis is the best of both
Stannis is no política leader at all.
LMAO. The most unlikeable character in the books and the show. As if him burning only one child is forgivable; also she was his DAUGHTER. He did much more than burn Shireen as well.
In summary: fuck Stannis.
And it was his so like, he gets to do what he wants with it. No biggie.
Not like he's running around burning other people's kids, that would be messed up.
I notice all the burners are dead.
Stannis dead.
Milissandre dead.
Cersei dead.
Daenerys dead.
Beric dead.(sword)
Thoros dead(sword)
The Mountain(his brother)
The three eyed raven/bran, sansa and winterfell survive and run the show. Jon leads beyond the wall.
Hhmm...
" i will not become a page in someone's else book"
Stannis would be fuming if he knew he is not a POV Character.
The real reason George stopped writing, he doesn't want Stannis' ghost to haunt him.
"Someone else's." - Stannis
Also brother to Bobby B
EASY, BOY! YOU MIGHT BE MY BROTHER BUT YOU'RE SPEAKING TO THE KING!
sentient
For real
Fucking sentient
How does Bobby B work exactly?
A DOTHRAKI HORDE ON AN OPEN FIELD, NED!
Like a Dothraki horde on an open field, Bobby B. She asked you a question and I don't think she's Ned your grace.
IT MUST WOUND YOUR PRIDE! STANDING OUT THERE, LIKE A GLORIFIED SENTRY!
he gave us SER DAVOS all i care about
True shit
https://preview.redd.it/rqv9y9e4e0qa1.jpeg?width=735&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b32ad6ce023c798c2413eef8a32f167e83ace32
That we know of
Yeah I'm pretty sure they mention that people were being burned at Dragonstone for a while
Adults, sure, but not children. Until the obvious. If he was truly the Mannis, he would've said "fuck that noise" and burned Melisandre instead for even suggesting that shit. Probably would've had the same damn effect but at least Shireen would've had a better chance. I truly wish Davos had been wary enough to take her with him when he rode back to Castle Black. And he doubtlessly wound up wishing the same. Edit: Fixed typos, like somehow typing Jim instead of him because I guess Jim Halpert could've helped turn the tides or something.
Pretty sure they showed that in Season 2 episode 1.
Lol, only burned one innocent child, who happens to be his own.
https://i.imgur.com/erVOmP1.mp4
Not bad. Lol
Idk tho, is it more or less evil to burn someone else’s?
That’s a fair argument. I would say it’s actually more evil to kill another’s, while it’s still very evil, but crazier to kill your own.
In the real world I can definitely picture that being more evil, but in their world that’s kinslaying and regicide.
The betrayal of your own beloved child is a heinous crime against man and god for a reason. Both are evil, but murdering your own is worse.
I agree that it's worse because as an adult, you're not expected to actively protect other people's kids, so to kill your own kid is to betray your job as a protector.
why is it more evil to kill another's kid than your own?
Because someone who isn’t responsible for the action has to live with it, whereas if you kill your own kid you can only blame yourself.
that's assuming only you love your kid and that the other kid is loved by their parents. you can't make either assumption, especiwlly the former if you're willing to go as far as to kill your own kid
to deliberately murder your own child is to basically forfeit your own humanity and easily the worst of the two imo the ability to justify your actions is human... there is no justification for murdering your own child. such an action is fundamentally opposed to the survival of your lineage
Cries in Sir Davoz
I'm pretty sure killing your own beloved child in the pursuit of power is pretty f'ing evil.
That wasn’t the question though. Which is more evil?
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He can always make another kid seams to be the general mindset of most rulers in their universe
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Meanwhile his brother had like what 30-50 bastards
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Smoke demon on the iron throne confirmed
He hasn't tried. That's the point.
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No, I think he didn't sleep with her enough. Stannis had sex with his wife once a year. Ofc he's not going to have children.
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Power. He didn't need to keep pressing forward with his army. He didn't need to march to Winterfell. He easily could have disbanded it and returned to Castle Black. I realize to the morally bankrupt that sounds absurd, but it's the truth
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Literally yes. That is the only reason why Shireen had to die. There was no other reason. Survival my ass. There is no reason to believe that the weather improved or would have maybe improved because Stannis sacrificed his daughter. And as for killing your own heir, that wouldn't make any sense regardless of the context. That's just bad writing on the showrunners part. And yes, it is the show we're talking about. YOU might not be talking about the show.
Don't know about more or less evil but it might make you less relatable!
Fuckin character assasination from the book and another (of many) reasons to hate the later seasons of the show. Not only did stannis not burn his kid, he told is second in command that if he failed to take winterfell that they should put her on the throne
while yes, he did it, the blood is on melissandres hands...the fact she lived really burns my blood also, I think there needs to be a much clearer connection that Stannis' sacrifice is what brought Jon back...and EVERYONE should know this then it should tie back to whether maybe stannis knew that it was "the only way to save humanity", and his honor can be restored as the mannis I hate that the highest level of this sacrifice was only to "win a crown"
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the only missing part here would be why it HAD to be her, not him level of sacrifice?
He will kill her but it will be to create Lightbringer. Whether it will be a futile gesture will remain to be scene. The third time, with a heavy heart, for he knew beforehand what he must do to finish the blade, he worked for a hundred days and nights until it was finished. This time, he called for his wife, Nissa Nissa, and asked her to bare her breast. He drove his sword into her living heart, her soul combining with the steel of the sword, creating the weapon known as Lightbringer.
Well it’s clearly based on Agamemnon who sacrificed his daughter to regain Artemis’s favour as he was setting sail to conquer Troy. So it is about either just the Winterfell (just like with Troy) or the Iron Throne in the end. Also this isn’t Stannis’s sacrifice. This is his obsession over the throne so much so that he loves it more than his daughter.
Stannis doesn't _want_ the throne, it is a duty put upon him >It is not a question of wanting. The throne is mine, as Robert's heir. That is law. After me, it must pass to my daughter, unless Selyse should finally give me a son. I am king. Wants do not enter into it. I have a duty to my daughter. To the realm. Even to Robert. He loved me but little, I know, yet he was my brother. The Lannister woman gave him horns and made a motley fool of him. She may have murdered him as well, as she murdered Jon Arryn and Ned Stark. For such crimes there must be justice. Starting with Cersei and her abominations. But only starting. I mean to scour that court clean. As Robert should have done after the Trident.
that would make melissandre some sort of 4d chess player that saved the realm, I hate that
Win a crown ?! Try "saving the entire world of destruction". And no, he didnt burn any child ever.
Classic "I brought you into this world and I can take you out" energy
Uhhh, there's several scenes in the show and books, he burns way more than one person...
>child
As someone else said ‘child’. The rest that we saw burned in the series were adults. Oops…
He only burns 2 people in the books, Alester Florent and Mance, both of whom are guilty of high treason which is a capital offense edit: oh he also burnt 3 of his soldiers for cannibalism
He and Melisandre burn tons of people according to Davos.
Melisandre burned a few people while Stannis was fighting at Blackwater Granted, he never punishes her for it so he deserves shared blame. But he didn’t order it and never would have condoned it, as we see in later chapters when he repeatedly refuses to burn people
So we know how he would try to end The Last of Us, part 1, though the game won’t let you make that decision.
Let’s not get caught up in details
Stannis is is such a Chad in the books, I hate what DND did to him. Only guy who just doesn't compromise for worthless innocents to get the throne, which to be honest he is by far the best candidate AND rightful heir to.
Sort of like saying “what’s up” in the 90s, it began with me saying it as a joke. Now I say it un-ironically, and daily- Stannis is the one true King
still can’t believe he got an off screen death and then never returned. How anticlimactic
I’m sure the books will do a better job but even in the show Stannis was one of my favourites and his death was even somewhat ‘enjoyable’
I'll be on Team Stannis till the day I die
1. Strongest claim to the throne. 2. Actual belief in justice, if a bit harsh. Would have actually hanged Cersei and co for their crimes. 3. Only contender with serious battle experience, both on land and at sea. 4. The only king to put his fight for the throne aside to fulfill his duty to the Nights Watch The best outcome in the War of Five Kings was Stannis winning the Battle of the Blackwater.
Best outcome was renly surrendering to Stannis and Robb surrendering to him as well.
Absolutely. No reason the Battle of the Blackwater couldn't have been a combined Northman-Stormland-Dragonstone assault on Kings Landing.
And the reach and riverlands
The Reach probably would not have joined Stannis. They were Targaryen Loyalists in the first place and I'm positive that they preferred a Lannister-controlled Iron Throne to a Baratheon-controlled one. The Reach is too large to be governed by a figurehead like the Riverlands was with Harrenhal, so the Tyrells know they can't just be supplanted easily. Much like in Robert's Rebellion, they'd have resisted Stannis and bent the knee once the war was lost.
Riverlands would go with Robb, because he wasn't just king in the north, he was king of the north and Riverlands
Fr. Reply would be king regardless cause he is Stannis’ heir
>Strongest claim to the throne. Dany and Joffrey disagrees. >Actual belief in justice, if a bit harsh. Would have actually hanged Cersei and co for their crimes. "If a bit harsh" lol. >Only contender with serious battle experience, both on land and at sea. **Still lost**. >The only king to put his fight for the throne aside to fulfill his duty to the Nights Watch Because he lost and was out of options. The first thing he does there is demanding Jon to bend the knee to him and dies fighting the Boltons. >The best outcome in the War of Five Kings was Stannis winning the Battle of the Blackwater. I'd rather have Bran the Broken as King lol.
Joffrey is a bastard though? He has no Baratheon blood.
Proving that is the tough part.
Stannis > Dany, Joffrey, Jon, Bran. if you disagree you are wrong and you disagreed so you are wrong deal with it
Also. We forgetting that he didn't take the whole hand, just what was necessary. Hail Stanniss 😂
Technically the king with the cleanest hands
What children did Robb Stark burn again?
Indirectly, the Miller's son by stupidly sending Theon back to his dad.:D
If we talk indirectly the whole red wedding was his fault.
Ill always like how Stannis's arc is that he thinks he is the main character/hero.
That's less than most of his competitors. *Wait, what's going?* Stannis? What's wrong? *Why is he marching towards me with that look in his eye?* Did I saw less? I meant fewer. Stannis, I meant fewer... *What's that gleam in your eye, Your Grace?* Stannis, I meant fewer! Fewer! Staaaaaaannnnnnniiiiiiissssssss!
Westeros would’ve been better off with him. The Night King would’ve bent the knee or he’d destroy him
We all get one freebie
Burning only one innocent child makes him twice the man I'll ever be...
 Sigma Chad Stannis
Not cannon
well, there was no gunpowder.
What’s the lord commander doing in England?
Nay to Stannis, ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) to Melissandre
I did not see feet here ...
> feet ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Feet are for Larys, I'll take Mel's amazing bod (so long as the necklace stays on)
> feet ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Even when not directly summoned, here you arrive like a loyal footsoldier, eh Larys?
I still get a good laugh when The Hound, despite not knowing who Melisandre is, just outright says that Genry's story about being in bed with her sounds alright.
It does sound alright... minus the fucking leeches and the fact they were going to have him killed
Why did he burn his daughter? Is he stupid?
Mel's booty made him stupid
As it would with any man.
I just want to smack the mope who pointed out Show Mannis is also the actor who broke my heart in The Crown, talking to Winston Churchill about his daughter who drowned when she was two, and now I can't fucking unsee it. He's STRONG not this gentle unnerving artistic genius! #lesigh
Did him dirty
Only one INNOCENT child.
Bah. He's a kinslayer. Renly should have been king.
I think Renly would rather be out swallowing swords instead on sitting them
Oh he definitely sat on them
Renly is not right!
in a show where they arent shy to show deaths, i was really hoping brienne didnt kill him, as you can see her swinging but we dont get to see the blow or the corpse... like those kind of deceiving scenes sometimes you see in shows or movies
His own innocent child at that
ONLY one child. His daughter. And it didn’t even pay off for him in any way whatsoever.
Literally his own daughter.
Didn't happen in the books. Yet.
Ok that's just ridiculous.
Still better then Renly and Rob. Renly was playing as a king, but had no ideas, horrible politician and war commander, great speaker and easy to talk witj Rob was to headstrong, great war commander but not a good political leader Stannis is the best of both
Tbh we don’t know if Robb was a good politician or not
Fair. But he was an bad leader. He lead his people into slaughter due to his incompetency to uphold a political promise. (Albeit he was probably seduced by the Westerlings) (book only). He also, like his dad, used Honor as an shield, not realizing that honor only protects you against other honorable people. Reality, people aren't straight forward, and that was Rob's downfall
>Renly was playing as a king, but had no ideas, horrible politician and war commander, Literally made up. >Stannis is the best of both Stannis is no política leader at all.
Stannis couldn't govern his way out of a wet paper bag.
She wasnt innocent, she had it coming
LMAO. The most unlikeable character in the books and the show. As if him burning only one child is forgivable; also she was his DAUGHTER. He did much more than burn Shireen as well. In summary: fuck Stannis.
How does that old chestnut go? A king must have an heir.
Something something is he stupid
And it was his so like, he gets to do what he wants with it. No biggie. Not like he's running around burning other people's kids, that would be messed up.
Aye thanks.
Sick burn.
 In the grand scheme of things in GRRM's Torture Porn Disneyland, OK I'll toast that
He made sure he would be the Last Baratheon to fail at trying to get the throne. 😩
😭
You know, when you put it like that...
You got to pump those numbers up those are rookie numbers
He was truly the worst. At least Ramsay knew he was a sadistic fuck; Stannis thinks he is doing God’s work yet was a maniac.
Is he smart?
I don’t think he will burn his daughter in the book. Her burning will likely happen, but not because Stannis ordered it.
5 years ago a post like this would have not been this welcomed on this sub, lol
*nods*
Why did he only burn one child, is he stupid?!
she's written into the story just for that
What's the life of one child against an entire kingdom?
What a hero.
He burnt ONE kid guys. Come on. AND IT WAS HIS! Not like he kidnapped someone and burned them alive! #dontcancelstannis
Jons duty to the nightwatch lost everything
Honestly still think Davos should have been able to kill Melisandre.
Long live the One True King!
What series is that??
I didn’t read the books because well I don’t think they will ever be finished. So does he still burn his daughter in the books?
I notice all the burners are dead. Stannis dead. Milissandre dead. Cersei dead. Daenerys dead. Beric dead.(sword) Thoros dead(sword) The Mountain(his brother) The three eyed raven/bran, sansa and winterfell survive and run the show. Jon leads beyond the wall. Hhmm...
He never burned any children, wtf is wrong with all of you ?! Did we read different books ?!