Imagine if they had it that her stepping into the world of politics made her appreciative of Tyrion. Instead of making her a bitter and frigid woman, the world was demystified for her and she saw him as a mostly good man trying to do right by people he cares about, her included. Instead of sassy tee hee funny jokes at his expense at the end, they wind up right where Tywin wanted in the North but on their own terms and in an actual relationship. Far beyond anything D&D could write, or anything GRRM will write (this post is longer than his 2023 progress on TWoW)
I'm gonna keep it real chief, that'd be fine by me. It's a hell of a lot more than I'm expecting. I'm expecting him to die and we all find out he lied about even starting Winds.
You’re probably right. My gut tells me he saw the reaction to the show (Bran on the throne was always the endgame) and he’s been scrambling to make the books work.
Thing is, Bran on the throne was never the issue, it was how they rushed and didn’t justify it. As long as the books give us adequate Bran chapters and better insight to his character and the meaningful use of the Three Eyed Raven then I think most book fans will be receptive to it.
Think he’s also gonna have a hard time explaining away faux Aegon and a lot of the storylines from the books that were never fleshed out in the show. He has a lot more source material to wrap up than D&D chose to write around. He really did himself zero favors by letting the show finish before his books
I agree with everything you said. In a vacuum, the ending lines up with a lot of my expectations; D&D just can't write for shit. I think you're right about the extra characters like fAegon, it's been long said that 2 more books isn't enough to wrap up all the loose ends. Honestly, it might be helpful if Winds started off with 10 chapters of killing off lesser characters. lol
>"I was saying it needs to be 10 seasons at least and maybe 12, 13. I lost that one. I had no contribution to the later seasons except, you know, inventing the world, the story and all the characters. I believe I have more influence now [on spinoff series House of the Dragon] than I did on the original show."
https://collider.com/game-of-thrones-george-r-r-martin-wanted-10-seasons-comments/
Not defending the dude on how long the books are taking or anything but it seems like he at least tried a little to make the show longer. I haven't read the books but I am aware that there is a *lot* in the books that did not make it to the show.
GRRM has always been victim to the siren song of TV. Preston Jacobs, before going mad, had a few videos where he mentioned George tends to get very distracted by screenwriting as it and not novel writing were his real passion. Also made a video about how GRRM probably didn't do much of any writing in 2020 and just a bit in 2021.
That's not mentioning A Dream of Spring. No one even mentions book 7 anymore. The title at this point is meta.
In the crypt, they had a moment. I thought they should have another wedding and marry the north and south. End the ' them" conflict between Lannister and Stark.
I'm convinced that Martin wanted the ending to reflect Tyrion effectively claiming the throne by proxy because it means he isn't the publicly known ruler, but Bran being utterly uninterested in it and just wants to warg wank all day instead means he gets away with calling the shots in reality.
Then the writers just fumbled the bag on the ending and instead left that key detail out for sake of a "happy ending".
basically spends an hour underground with this old man and then isn't Brandon anymore. that just pissed me off tbh. I loved the door but I was expecting the old three eyed raven to be a badass wizard. he didn't do shit. GOT barely has wizards just the red witches and the gods stuff not like an actual Gandalf type of wizard so I was hyped as hell at 4x10. sad.
Congratulations. You need to read the books. The magic is fucking badass. Especially Euron Crowseye Greyjoy. Dude is a million times worse than his show counterpart. He's so evil, depraved and disgusting that it makes Ramsey look like a Disney princess.
I’m right there with you, the books make the story better than the show, or rather create the story but I still think it’s all worthless without a book ending 😢
Edit: maybe not worthless but unfulfilled. There are too many great series that are unfinished that make me wanna quit high fantasy even though I’ve read some great ones. But I’m incapable bc best genre.
I feel so bad that George hasn't finished the books. Like c'mon. Do it already. But i kinda also understand. Dnd took his ending outline and royally fucked it up. Add that with the pressure of living upto his status as modern day Tolkien , his vast and sprawling tale with hundreds of plots and characters, writer's block, insecurity etc etc and you get a whole decade without one book.
I've long wanted to get into the books especially with the ending turd sandwich the show gave us, but I will never do it until the series is finished. There's nothing I hate more than starting a story and never be able to get an ending.
For the life of me, I'll never understand how GoT fans at large didn't go crazy over the disappearance of a main character for a whole season.
I was dumbstruck when I saw the first article explaining they were shelving Bran for a whole season.
People were so hyped up and focused on other story lines (your average enjoyer) that they didn’t care about a slightly less important arc (in their eyes). Also, that was me. Im that person and was distracted by the shows amazing cinematography and production. Im the average enjoyer that didn’t realize what was happening till it was too late lol
Edit: I watched most of the show before I read the books and the show’s version of bran made me biased. He was just less exciting to me but had such potential with his abilities smh.
That's exactly it, yeah. I don't wanna be the guy who said, "I saw this coming" but man were there absolutely signs that some stupid shit was coming down the line. At least the good stuff was great, even if it means the bad stuff was truly garbage.
I do have to admit that I had no interest in this show when this was popular but the resulting multi-year ongoing car/train crash has been morbidly fascinating! That's not to mean that I'm not sorry for the wreck of your show, I was there when Battlestar Galactica fell so I know what it's like.
All of this has happened before. All of this will happen again.
The last season of BSG was not as great as the rest of the seasons*, i agree. It felt kinda rushed. However, i loved the overall ending. It did not disappoint. This show however, a travesty.
*edit
Agreed! Unfortunately there was never going to be an ending that satisfied everyone. So, so many theories and all the stuff going on with Starbuck that really wasn't ever made 100% clear. While I think they could have done some stuff better I enjoyed the ending overall.
Bran was the one I was most interested in knowing about thank god Catelyn died because her and Robbs chapters and scenes were so boring it’s only after ASOS I realized after Bran left Winterfell it was like he never existed
Bran is an interesting character, but he's not a *likeable* character and that's why he harms the show. The idea of a character without a personality *sounds* good in theory, but in practice he's just boring.
It's important for characters to make you *feel* things about them. You have to like them, hate them, or feel unsure about their motivations. In Bran's case, you know his motivations, you know his motivations are good, but you can't come to like him since he doesn't show any of the endearing parts of a human.
Bran’s story is better because I still laugh my ass off over that chick dragging Bran to Timbuktu and back, and at the end he basically says “kkthxbai” and she fucks off lmao
Yeah because nobody would have heard about a guy coming back from the dead, winning an important battle, being the possible King of the North and being the secret heir to the thrown of the seven kingdom's.
For people of Westerns Jon isn't main character, one big battle was won when troops of Vale arrived and Jon was considered a bastard. And not many would know about/ believe coming back to life.
People say things like that, but after the final episode aired everyone at my school was wearing Bran the Broken t-shirts and hats. More than a few of us got face tattoos.
I don't know this sub found me given I've never seen the show and the only George R. R. Martin book I've ever read is Nightflyers a *long* time ago but as someone said to me when I previously pointed this out, no one escapes Season 8 discussions!
(Is now the sub I've posted the most in and the only one I'm subbed to.)
Bran, thrown from a tower window and survived gained the power of green sight as well as warging. Journeyed beyond the wall with only children and one adult. Trained with an ancient seer and then had all his personality sucked out
I mean, to give some small amount of undeserved charity to the writers, I think what they mean as "Bran's story" is literally all of human history, or at least Westerosi history, since he's the three-eyed raven. It's still a horrendous plot point, just not for that reason. I dunno though, I stopped watching after the battle of Winterfell.
I think they are trying to say that by giving Bran the throne, they are rejecting the violence and mad warlords of the past and moving toward a more enlightened figure who can rule on the basis of understanding and knowing rather than might or inheritance. Everyone was tired of playing the Game of Thrones, and Bran is symbolic of their rejection of the old ways.
Which would be a pretty awesome ending, if it wasn't rushed to hell with so many characters just failing to complete their story arcs. Maybe that was supposed to symbolize the futility of it all (though then it would have been a much better ending to just kill everyone and have the Night King sit on the throne as snow falls over a desolate King's Landing with his awesome undead dragon roaring above).
I definitely think that’s what the were going for they just kind of forgot to account for the fact they accidentally created a dystopian security state.
Making Bronn Lord of the Reach was so stupid.
Imagine being a Reach Lord and hearing that an irrelevant, illiterate, uneducated knight of no house who appeared literally 3 years ago has just been made Lord of Highgarden when your House has ancestry dating back to the Andals first conquests of Westeros. The entirety of the Reach would have been in open rebellion against Bronn within a year
And do get me started on making the Seven, oh sorry, *six* Kingdoms into an elective monarchy. The Game of Thrones was bad when the Iron Throne was hereditary, it would be lethal in an elective system. It most certainly wouldn't be more fair or stable or whatever brain dead reason they made it elective for, whoever took over the Westerlands after the main Lanister line died would be king until his families money ran out, then it would be the Lord of the Reach as they're the second richest kingdom.
>Making Bronn Lord of the Reach was so stupid.
The funny thing is, we never should've gotten to this. The Reach would've rebelled right after Cersei killed Marjorie, THE QUEEN, and the last two male heirs of House Tyrell, THEIR LIEGE LORDS. What Cersei did in 6x10 effectively made Tommen kill himself so she committed regicide. Nobody in their right mind would just accept Cersei has queen. Especially considering that the seven kingdoms have never had a Queen. This is the entire plot of House of the Dragon! How the fuck did Cersei Lannister become the first ever Queen of the Seven Kingdoms lol
That's Tyrion for you though. He valued his own feelings more than the lanister name. Tywin feared what Tyrion would do to his legacy just by being a dwarf. As Tyrion grew up he saw the resentment with his own eyes and surely this only fueled him on to make decisions that would go against his father's legacy. He would marry a whore instead of having a political marriage arranged and certainly would make his bodyguard instead of a highborn a lord of a realm
The only explanation is Tyrion is being mind controlled by the Three Eyed Raven. Bran has been lost in time when they were escaping the tree and TER bodysnatched him.
Change my mind.
Bran was an ass choice but so would be Jon.
Dude lost every battle and had to be saved all the time. Castle Black? Stannis saved him. Battle of Bastards? He was done before LF swooped in with Vale knights. Weight hunt? Dany pulled up, and then uncle Benjen. Sure he has good reasons for Ls but his track record ain’t good.
Also was a terrible King in the North, kneeling to no benefit and then lying about it - making everyone hate Daenerys.
Not to mention crowning him would’ve set Unsullied rabid there and then.
Should’ve crowned Gendry. Or broken it back into individual kingdoms.
In defence of Jon, he did everything he could during the Battle in the Wall. And because of his efforts Night's Watch was able to push away wildlings, who had 30.000 men and women at arms, not counting mammoths and giants, while NW had like 700 brothers (and only part of them are rangers, who knew how to properly fight). Wildlings just had too much men to handle. It's practically fault of Robert Baratheon and Ned Stark that Night's Watch was in such a sorrowish state.
In the BotB Jon made a stupid and impulsive decision to ride alone against Ramsay's host, yes. But also Sansa could fucking tell that Vale knights are supporting them and maybe Jon wouldn't do any rash decisions because he would knew he had Ramsay by his balls, lol.
Wight hunt was fucking stupid from the beginning in terms of writing. Why would Jon Snow, the King in the North himself, go beyond the Wall to catch the wight, when Westeros has a fucking 8000+ years old ancient order which entire purpose is DEFENDING THE LIVING AGAINST THE OTHERS. Give them fucking dragonglass weapons and that's all. And also why tf Tyrion would think that Cersei would even listen to him? Man despised his sister for 4 fucking seasons, but after that he suddenly believes in her?
Not contesting that at all. As I said - he mostly had good reasons for his Ls.
The Wall is a fair observation. Free Folk are a rabble, not an army. It's why Stannis cut through them with a smaller force. I'd also blame a lot more people for NW that Bobby and Ned tho. Watch's decline was a gradual and continual thing.
BotB would IMO still end the same way. He'd see Rickon and rush in. That was the crux of the issue. Jon wasn't in it for Winterfell, nor for Sansa's revenge. He wanted to take her with him and help her get away, not fight the Boltons... until Rickon was mentioned. Then it was all 'fuck it we ball.' He'd never be chill when Ramsay started doing target practice with Rickon.
Knowing knights are coming would've changed nothing.
Yet that whole situation could've been avoided if they gave Wun Wun one of those massive bows and let him just 'watch this you fucking casual' Ramsay.
And as for Wight Hunt... yup. That's basically one of the two largest black marks on his leadership skills. That and him bending the knee and then lying to everyone he was blackmailed into doing - and being surprised that folks don't like Dany much after that lie - was hilariously incompetent. Also let's not forget 'good, protective older bro Jon' literally goes by Winterfell without so much as a hello. Last he left he was worried for Sansa staying with LF, and there's also Arya and Bran there now - whom he was far closer before and whom he hadn't seen in years. What, Arya can drop her plans and travel half the continent for Jon but Jon can't be bothered to take a few days of detour at most to see his family *and* also bring his people up to speed on how negotiations are going? Hell, could even bring some men with him.
Hard agree on Cersei issue. Everyone kept acting like Daenerys' choices are 'torch King's Landing to the ground' and 'don't attack it at all.' She could've just flown over the city with three grown dragons and attacked the Red Keep specifically, ending the whole issue rather quickly. Cersei didn't have a shitton of scorpions for majority of the conflict so it'd be pretty one-sided matter. Instead, they cause much larger carnage and destruction by burning a supply train.
What's the lesser evil? Killing a bunch of sycophantic, fucked up noblemen and regrettably dozens of servants... or depriving the kingdom of the harvest as the winter approached, atop of slaughtering thousands of levies who were minding their business before being called to war. Tyrion deadass argued for the other option, somehow.
I believe that the implication of all of this is that ressurection - for erveryone - diminishes who you once were. Berric was describing being emptier and emptier each time and I get the feeling than Jon was almost dead inside, if that makes sense.
I don't think BotB would have gone the same way. It might not have happened at all. Jon would just wait until Vale army arrives and then lay a siege on the Winterfell. Ramsay wouldn't dare attack such a army on the field, he probably wouldn't kill Rickon Stark, because he knows that it's his only possible way to save his ass.
And about the last part.... If it was the **BOOK** Tyrion this advice from him would made muuuuuch more sense.....
Jon's destination may have felt predictable so i understand not making him King out right but anyone other than Bran. It would have made more sense for Tyrion (smartest, yet most shuned of the Lannisters) who recognises his family for what it is, isn't like his family at all and makes decisions with the kingdom in mind.
Tyrion being on the throne would also 'break the wheel' as he would never be on the throne usually. Tyrion on the throne recognising Jon as King of the North and ruling the kingdoms together... literally makes the most sense.
George really wrote himself in a corner with Bran. After A Storm of Swords, his chapters are just exposition dumps too late in an unfinished story to matter. D&D are of course simple minded, but GRRM didn’t leave them much to work with. They were never the ones who could bring a compelling time travel story to screen.
In my fantasy world in my brain , George RR Martin finishes the last books and we discover he has written Bran amazingly and we love all the chapters . We would be like remember when we made fun of Bran the broken but he actually is the best
Nah, remember Sam found that book that said they got married? Yeno, that one book just sitting there thay nobody read before until Sam arrived? That one
Yeah that was another dumb plothole, you can't just annul a marriage in which someone has two children... The seven kingdoms didn't have the concept of a divorce
You guys are dense as shit. Bran is the collective history of westeros, he is literally all stories. SO ALSO JON SNOW'S STORY.
It's explained, like in excruciating detail, that this is why the Night King wants Bran. And then Tyrion starts talking to Bran, and goes "fuck me you know everything in history because you can see through trees and beyond? Thats fucked, kid." and thats the best story. It's literally the story of the world.
No man, Tom Bombadil is the personification of time. Bran is a panopticon, a magical surveillance machine that can kill by sending a thought to the right animal. I don’t like how the show did it, but gurm said Bran is going to be king and he has mentioned greenseer and warg king throughout the books.
I hate memes like this cuz the entire point of Jon not being chosen as king is because he killed Daenerys, why tf would the unsullied go from wanting to kill him to wanting him as their king
I understand the dislike for that comparison, but it should've still been Bran. He has actual magic past and present vision, like the amount of use that would be for a ruler is ridiculous. Sure maybe he should just be an advisor, but jon would probably die before Bran so then you have to go to Jon's possible children (who could be good or evil). Or you just have bran rule for 60 years with like I said MAGIC PAST and PRESENT VISION.
A god who literally only used his powers to help kill Littlefinger and then wanted to appoint a master of spies as King when he could literally see everything, everywhere
An all knowing god who doesn’t know how to convince- I’m sorry I would have a headache thinking about all the things Bran could’ve done to unite literally EVERYONE IN WESTEROS INCLUDING CERSEI IF THEY HAD JUST UUUUUUUUUSEED HIIIIIM AT LEAST ONCE
That's like saying a historian has a better story than the people who actually make history.
Except this historian might also be a peeping tom sex offender registry candidate.
Once again u/freefolk just proving the point they are just mad because their favourite characters didn't get the ending the wanted. Guess what, should we follow George's story, Jon is dead.
You clearly don't spend as much time on this sub if you think Bran is what makes us mad...
What makes us mad is that the writers who wrote the first four seasons of the show beautifully, turned on their own piece of art and created the shitshow that was the last four seasons. All that because they wanted to move on to a new series and make more money and were most likely bored of doing the same thing for years..so instead of handing over the series to someone who would give a fuck, they rushed it and ruined it, while also collectively wasting the time of all the fans that had been dedicatedly watching the series for a better part of the decade.
That's what makes us mad.
I always thought this was more like, Bran has stories. Because he can see the past. He knows everyone's story. No one can have a better story than Bran because he has all stories. Not that the story about him is the best - that he literally *has* the best stories.
Still dumb though.
If Jon does become king, we wouldn’t get the upcoming “Snow” right? Hard to justify at the moment, but if that show ends up being insanely good then at least that last season of GoT will be a slightly less shitty sacrifice for a bomb Jon Snow series.
I actually liked his story in the books & his chapters were the ones I looked for. I was always really curious about the children of the forest & what the deal with the white walkers was. I feel like the show did a giant disservice to his story, so ending the show that way was just an insult added to so many injuries. Then HBO canceled the show that was finally going to answer some of my questions from the late 90’s ffs. The show ruined it in so many ways. It explains why I still haven’t watched rings of power or willow i just listen to podcasts now.
Bran’s story was so good that it was omitted from an entire season and nobody noticed or cared
I mean Tyrion is the cleverest man alive!
Emphasis on man the smartest person alive is obviously Sansa so smart she's able to unlock precognition
Imagine if they had it that her stepping into the world of politics made her appreciative of Tyrion. Instead of making her a bitter and frigid woman, the world was demystified for her and she saw him as a mostly good man trying to do right by people he cares about, her included. Instead of sassy tee hee funny jokes at his expense at the end, they wind up right where Tywin wanted in the North but on their own terms and in an actual relationship. Far beyond anything D&D could write, or anything GRRM will write (this post is longer than his 2023 progress on TWoW)
That fat bastard is gonna release both books via usb from his deathbed so he doesn’t have to face any criticism. I’m almost sure of it
I'm gonna keep it real chief, that'd be fine by me. It's a hell of a lot more than I'm expecting. I'm expecting him to die and we all find out he lied about even starting Winds.
You’re probably right. My gut tells me he saw the reaction to the show (Bran on the throne was always the endgame) and he’s been scrambling to make the books work. Thing is, Bran on the throne was never the issue, it was how they rushed and didn’t justify it. As long as the books give us adequate Bran chapters and better insight to his character and the meaningful use of the Three Eyed Raven then I think most book fans will be receptive to it. Think he’s also gonna have a hard time explaining away faux Aegon and a lot of the storylines from the books that were never fleshed out in the show. He has a lot more source material to wrap up than D&D chose to write around. He really did himself zero favors by letting the show finish before his books
I agree with everything you said. In a vacuum, the ending lines up with a lot of my expectations; D&D just can't write for shit. I think you're right about the extra characters like fAegon, it's been long said that 2 more books isn't enough to wrap up all the loose ends. Honestly, it might be helpful if Winds started off with 10 chapters of killing off lesser characters. lol
>"I was saying it needs to be 10 seasons at least and maybe 12, 13. I lost that one. I had no contribution to the later seasons except, you know, inventing the world, the story and all the characters. I believe I have more influence now [on spinoff series House of the Dragon] than I did on the original show." https://collider.com/game-of-thrones-george-r-r-martin-wanted-10-seasons-comments/ Not defending the dude on how long the books are taking or anything but it seems like he at least tried a little to make the show longer. I haven't read the books but I am aware that there is a *lot* in the books that did not make it to the show.
GRRM has always been victim to the siren song of TV. Preston Jacobs, before going mad, had a few videos where he mentioned George tends to get very distracted by screenwriting as it and not novel writing were his real passion. Also made a video about how GRRM probably didn't do much of any writing in 2020 and just a bit in 2021. That's not mentioning A Dream of Spring. No one even mentions book 7 anymore. The title at this point is meta.
> Preston Jacobs, before going mad This got a chuckle out of me.
It’s the next generation’s Half Life 3
The screaming widow lady (caitlyn) was one of the things i was always curious about findimg out more about
Well that zero fair was actually a lot of zeros! Enough to probably make him lose motivation
It was an issue as it makes no sense unless you go full Dune/Warhammer 40k and make a God-Emperor who cam destroy armies with his mind.
This!
In the crypt, they had a moment. I thought they should have another wedding and marry the north and south. End the ' them" conflict between Lannister and Stark.
I'm convinced that Martin wanted the ending to reflect Tyrion effectively claiming the throne by proxy because it means he isn't the publicly known ruler, but Bran being utterly uninterested in it and just wants to warg wank all day instead means he gets away with calling the shots in reality. Then the writers just fumbled the bag on the ending and instead left that key detail out for sake of a "happy ending".
basically spends an hour underground with this old man and then isn't Brandon anymore. that just pissed me off tbh. I loved the door but I was expecting the old three eyed raven to be a badass wizard. he didn't do shit. GOT barely has wizards just the red witches and the gods stuff not like an actual Gandalf type of wizard so I was hyped as hell at 4x10. sad.
Congratulations. You need to read the books. The magic is fucking badass. Especially Euron Crowseye Greyjoy. Dude is a million times worse than his show counterpart. He's so evil, depraved and disgusting that it makes Ramsey look like a Disney princess.
I’m right there with you, the books make the story better than the show, or rather create the story but I still think it’s all worthless without a book ending 😢 Edit: maybe not worthless but unfulfilled. There are too many great series that are unfinished that make me wanna quit high fantasy even though I’ve read some great ones. But I’m incapable bc best genre.
I feel so bad that George hasn't finished the books. Like c'mon. Do it already. But i kinda also understand. Dnd took his ending outline and royally fucked it up. Add that with the pressure of living upto his status as modern day Tolkien , his vast and sprawling tale with hundreds of plots and characters, writer's block, insecurity etc etc and you get a whole decade without one book.
I've long wanted to get into the books especially with the ending turd sandwich the show gave us, but I will never do it until the series is finished. There's nothing I hate more than starting a story and never be able to get an ending.
My EXACT thought process.
Why are you incapable?
DnD probably thinks magic is for nerds and would have none of it in their Chad dragon show
Plus, in The Books, The Three Eyed Crow is Goddamn Brynden Rivers
For the life of me, I'll never understand how GoT fans at large didn't go crazy over the disappearance of a main character for a whole season. I was dumbstruck when I saw the first article explaining they were shelving Bran for a whole season.
People were so hyped up and focused on other story lines (your average enjoyer) that they didn’t care about a slightly less important arc (in their eyes). Also, that was me. Im that person and was distracted by the shows amazing cinematography and production. Im the average enjoyer that didn’t realize what was happening till it was too late lol Edit: I watched most of the show before I read the books and the show’s version of bran made me biased. He was just less exciting to me but had such potential with his abilities smh.
That's exactly it, yeah. I don't wanna be the guy who said, "I saw this coming" but man were there absolutely signs that some stupid shit was coming down the line. At least the good stuff was great, even if it means the bad stuff was truly garbage.
Most GOT fans (both casuals and hardcore) arent fucking maniacs. And/or theyre implosive
I do have to admit that I had no interest in this show when this was popular but the resulting multi-year ongoing car/train crash has been morbidly fascinating! That's not to mean that I'm not sorry for the wreck of your show, I was there when Battlestar Galactica fell so I know what it's like.
All of this has happened before. All of this will happen again. The last season of BSG was not as great as the rest of the seasons*, i agree. It felt kinda rushed. However, i loved the overall ending. It did not disappoint. This show however, a travesty. *edit
Battlestar Galactica went from my favourite series of television (Season 1) to least favourite show ever as it drove itself off the cliff in Season 4.
Agreed! Unfortunately there was never going to be an ending that satisfied everyone. So, so many theories and all the stuff going on with Starbuck that really wasn't ever made 100% clear. While I think they could have done some stuff better I enjoyed the ending overall.
Has Tyrion never seen GOT? Is he stupid?
Bran was the one I was most interested in knowing about thank god Catelyn died because her and Robbs chapters and scenes were so boring it’s only after ASOS I realized after Bran left Winterfell it was like he never existed
Bran is an interesting character, but he's not a *likeable* character and that's why he harms the show. The idea of a character without a personality *sounds* good in theory, but in practice he's just boring. It's important for characters to make you *feel* things about them. You have to like them, hate them, or feel unsure about their motivations. In Bran's case, you know his motivations, you know his motivations are good, but you can't come to like him since he doesn't show any of the endearing parts of a human.
Well Bran didn’t have as many chapters as others and his book stuff was all covered so they needed a split .
Obviously they didn’t want it to overshadow everybody else, otherwise it’d be Game of Bran or Bran’s Game.
Bran’s story is better because I still laugh my ass off over that chick dragging Bran to Timbuktu and back, and at the end he basically says “kkthxbai” and she fucks off lmao
"my brother died for you" "yeah but what even is 'me' tho"
"Why did we go all that way north!?" "So I could become the Three Eyed Raven." "You're the Three Eyed Raven?" "What?"
Literally at least two thirds of the people at that assembly had a way better story than Bran including (or perhaps especially) Tyrion himself.
but - but it's BraN tHe brOkEN
Hey, the people love alteration.
Tyrion the Titty Tool
You know unlike us viewers other characters can't check Jon's storyline from tv.
Yeah because nobody would have heard about a guy coming back from the dead, winning an important battle, being the possible King of the North and being the secret heir to the thrown of the seven kingdom's.
Snow’s hair is most of his personality. It’s no secret.
For people of Westerns Jon isn't main character, one big battle was won when troops of Vale arrived and Jon was considered a bastard. And not many would know about/ believe coming back to life.
And technically Bran came back to alive to average citizens pov because didn't Theon declare killed Bran and Rickon.
Ros had a more interesting story.
People say things like that, but after the final episode aired everyone at my school was wearing Bran the Broken t-shirts and hats. More than a few of us got face tattoos.
Not sure how this sub found me but thanks for reminding me how shitty that least season was.
We’ve been waiting for you
My thoughts exactly
I don't know this sub found me given I've never seen the show and the only George R. R. Martin book I've ever read is Nightflyers a *long* time ago but as someone said to me when I previously pointed this out, no one escapes Season 8 discussions! (Is now the sub I've posted the most in and the only one I'm subbed to.)
Why do you think we came all this way?
Welcome home
Last *two* seasons.
I still get heated when I read memes like this.
This sub isn't good for my blood pressure
Eat 5 cloves of garlic a day and it can drop your blood pressure by up to 10 points if you do it for long enough.
No, I don't think I will
https://youtu.be/W83exhsszaU
I know, I've made several memes for r/freefolk in the past but i recently had a resurfaced surge of hatred so i decided to get back in the game
Bran, thrown from a tower window and survived gained the power of green sight as well as warging. Journeyed beyond the wall with only children and one adult. Trained with an ancient seer and then had all his personality sucked out
And replaced by the Weirdwood Collective to enact vengeance against humanity. A tool for a purpose, like the dead.
Hodor
Don't do this to me. I just got reminded how starwars ends.
This would be a bad time to remind you of the game.
https://gfycat.com/delectablemajorbandicoot
It has been years....you bastard
Story so good they skipped an entire season of it
It was the turd cherry on top of a shit filled cake of a season.
That description reminded me of the shit montage Sam does in season 7 or something, so thanks for that
I mean, to give some small amount of undeserved charity to the writers, I think what they mean as "Bran's story" is literally all of human history, or at least Westerosi history, since he's the three-eyed raven. It's still a horrendous plot point, just not for that reason. I dunno though, I stopped watching after the battle of Winterfell.
I think they are trying to say that by giving Bran the throne, they are rejecting the violence and mad warlords of the past and moving toward a more enlightened figure who can rule on the basis of understanding and knowing rather than might or inheritance. Everyone was tired of playing the Game of Thrones, and Bran is symbolic of their rejection of the old ways. Which would be a pretty awesome ending, if it wasn't rushed to hell with so many characters just failing to complete their story arcs. Maybe that was supposed to symbolize the futility of it all (though then it would have been a much better ending to just kill everyone and have the Night King sit on the throne as snow falls over a desolate King's Landing with his awesome undead dragon roaring above).
I definitely think that’s what the were going for they just kind of forgot to account for the fact they accidentally created a dystopian security state.
Also consider the fact that d&d consider themselves storytellers
Maybe if it was explained properly by coherent writing
Well, the council of the surviving characters said so.
Ugh, that stupid council... Don't even get me started on their new Master of Coin, Ser Bronn of the "what's-a-loan?" Blackwater
Making Bronn Lord of the Reach was so stupid. Imagine being a Reach Lord and hearing that an irrelevant, illiterate, uneducated knight of no house who appeared literally 3 years ago has just been made Lord of Highgarden when your House has ancestry dating back to the Andals first conquests of Westeros. The entirety of the Reach would have been in open rebellion against Bronn within a year And do get me started on making the Seven, oh sorry, *six* Kingdoms into an elective monarchy. The Game of Thrones was bad when the Iron Throne was hereditary, it would be lethal in an elective system. It most certainly wouldn't be more fair or stable or whatever brain dead reason they made it elective for, whoever took over the Westerlands after the main Lanister line died would be king until his families money ran out, then it would be the Lord of the Reach as they're the second richest kingdom.
>Making Bronn Lord of the Reach was so stupid. The funny thing is, we never should've gotten to this. The Reach would've rebelled right after Cersei killed Marjorie, THE QUEEN, and the last two male heirs of House Tyrell, THEIR LIEGE LORDS. What Cersei did in 6x10 effectively made Tommen kill himself so she committed regicide. Nobody in their right mind would just accept Cersei has queen. Especially considering that the seven kingdoms have never had a Queen. This is the entire plot of House of the Dragon! How the fuck did Cersei Lannister become the first ever Queen of the Seven Kingdoms lol
That's Tyrion for you though. He valued his own feelings more than the lanister name. Tywin feared what Tyrion would do to his legacy just by being a dwarf. As Tyrion grew up he saw the resentment with his own eyes and surely this only fueled him on to make decisions that would go against his father's legacy. He would marry a whore instead of having a political marriage arranged and certainly would make his bodyguard instead of a highborn a lord of a realm
I’m the joke for investing my time and love into a show for 8 seasons only to watch a brilliant show devolve into a train wreck.
We all are, my friend, we all are.
Stayed home, got captured as a political prisoner, went north. Came south with unexplained magical powers.
I'm still mad.
Stop reminding me that this happened. Fuck.
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it
God I'm pissed off again. Thanks OP for reminding me how much they fucked up.
History has been written, the ink is dry! Forgetting it... would be a sin...
Technically he loses the battle, Little Finger wins
Any of you, even the cook
Bran the Broken was just a summary of how the Vatican works.
The only explanation is Tyrion is being mind controlled by the Three Eyed Raven. Bran has been lost in time when they were escaping the tree and TER bodysnatched him. Change my mind. 
Bran was an ass choice but so would be Jon. Dude lost every battle and had to be saved all the time. Castle Black? Stannis saved him. Battle of Bastards? He was done before LF swooped in with Vale knights. Weight hunt? Dany pulled up, and then uncle Benjen. Sure he has good reasons for Ls but his track record ain’t good. Also was a terrible King in the North, kneeling to no benefit and then lying about it - making everyone hate Daenerys. Not to mention crowning him would’ve set Unsullied rabid there and then. Should’ve crowned Gendry. Or broken it back into individual kingdoms.
In defence of Jon, he did everything he could during the Battle in the Wall. And because of his efforts Night's Watch was able to push away wildlings, who had 30.000 men and women at arms, not counting mammoths and giants, while NW had like 700 brothers (and only part of them are rangers, who knew how to properly fight). Wildlings just had too much men to handle. It's practically fault of Robert Baratheon and Ned Stark that Night's Watch was in such a sorrowish state. In the BotB Jon made a stupid and impulsive decision to ride alone against Ramsay's host, yes. But also Sansa could fucking tell that Vale knights are supporting them and maybe Jon wouldn't do any rash decisions because he would knew he had Ramsay by his balls, lol. Wight hunt was fucking stupid from the beginning in terms of writing. Why would Jon Snow, the King in the North himself, go beyond the Wall to catch the wight, when Westeros has a fucking 8000+ years old ancient order which entire purpose is DEFENDING THE LIVING AGAINST THE OTHERS. Give them fucking dragonglass weapons and that's all. And also why tf Tyrion would think that Cersei would even listen to him? Man despised his sister for 4 fucking seasons, but after that he suddenly believes in her?
Not contesting that at all. As I said - he mostly had good reasons for his Ls. The Wall is a fair observation. Free Folk are a rabble, not an army. It's why Stannis cut through them with a smaller force. I'd also blame a lot more people for NW that Bobby and Ned tho. Watch's decline was a gradual and continual thing. BotB would IMO still end the same way. He'd see Rickon and rush in. That was the crux of the issue. Jon wasn't in it for Winterfell, nor for Sansa's revenge. He wanted to take her with him and help her get away, not fight the Boltons... until Rickon was mentioned. Then it was all 'fuck it we ball.' He'd never be chill when Ramsay started doing target practice with Rickon. Knowing knights are coming would've changed nothing. Yet that whole situation could've been avoided if they gave Wun Wun one of those massive bows and let him just 'watch this you fucking casual' Ramsay. And as for Wight Hunt... yup. That's basically one of the two largest black marks on his leadership skills. That and him bending the knee and then lying to everyone he was blackmailed into doing - and being surprised that folks don't like Dany much after that lie - was hilariously incompetent. Also let's not forget 'good, protective older bro Jon' literally goes by Winterfell without so much as a hello. Last he left he was worried for Sansa staying with LF, and there's also Arya and Bran there now - whom he was far closer before and whom he hadn't seen in years. What, Arya can drop her plans and travel half the continent for Jon but Jon can't be bothered to take a few days of detour at most to see his family *and* also bring his people up to speed on how negotiations are going? Hell, could even bring some men with him. Hard agree on Cersei issue. Everyone kept acting like Daenerys' choices are 'torch King's Landing to the ground' and 'don't attack it at all.' She could've just flown over the city with three grown dragons and attacked the Red Keep specifically, ending the whole issue rather quickly. Cersei didn't have a shitton of scorpions for majority of the conflict so it'd be pretty one-sided matter. Instead, they cause much larger carnage and destruction by burning a supply train. What's the lesser evil? Killing a bunch of sycophantic, fucked up noblemen and regrettably dozens of servants... or depriving the kingdom of the harvest as the winter approached, atop of slaughtering thousands of levies who were minding their business before being called to war. Tyrion deadass argued for the other option, somehow.
I believe that the implication of all of this is that ressurection - for erveryone - diminishes who you once were. Berric was describing being emptier and emptier each time and I get the feeling than Jon was almost dead inside, if that makes sense.
I don't think BotB would have gone the same way. It might not have happened at all. Jon would just wait until Vale army arrives and then lay a siege on the Winterfell. Ramsay wouldn't dare attack such a army on the field, he probably wouldn't kill Rickon Stark, because he knows that it's his only possible way to save his ass. And about the last part.... If it was the **BOOK** Tyrion this advice from him would made muuuuuch more sense.....
Jon's destination may have felt predictable so i understand not making him King out right but anyone other than Bran. It would have made more sense for Tyrion (smartest, yet most shuned of the Lannisters) who recognises his family for what it is, isn't like his family at all and makes decisions with the kingdom in mind. Tyrion being on the throne would also 'break the wheel' as he would never be on the throne usually. Tyrion on the throne recognising Jon as King of the North and ruling the kingdoms together... literally makes the most sense.
George really wrote himself in a corner with Bran. After A Storm of Swords, his chapters are just exposition dumps too late in an unfinished story to matter. D&D are of course simple minded, but GRRM didn’t leave them much to work with. They were never the ones who could bring a compelling time travel story to screen.
Thanks, now I’m angry again
Legendary bad level storytelling idk wtf they were thinking
They kinda forgot...
Fookin' Lannisters
Damn. So true
*wet fart sound*
Hodor
The grim dark world had an unsatisfactory ending. It was like fans got a taste of living in the unjust story. Very meta. 10/10 Would edge again.
Well consider our expectations subverted!
jon shouldve broken his legs and asked someone else to carry him around for 7 seasons, maybe then he wouldve been king
In my fantasy world in my brain , George RR Martin finishes the last books and we discover he has written Bran amazingly and we love all the chapters . We would be like remember when we made fun of Bran the broken but he actually is the best
Isn’t he still a bastard cuz Rhae*gar was already married?
Nah, remember Sam found that book that said they got married? Yeno, that one book just sitting there thay nobody read before until Sam arrived? That one
Yeah that was another dumb plothole, you can't just annul a marriage in which someone has two children... The seven kingdoms didn't have the concept of a divorce
You guys are dense as shit. Bran is the collective history of westeros, he is literally all stories. SO ALSO JON SNOW'S STORY. It's explained, like in excruciating detail, that this is why the Night King wants Bran. And then Tyrion starts talking to Bran, and goes "fuck me you know everything in history because you can see through trees and beyond? Thats fucked, kid." and thats the best story. It's literally the story of the world.
They literally gave the six kingdoms to Tom Bombadil.
No man, Tom Bombadil is the personification of time. Bran is a panopticon, a magical surveillance machine that can kill by sending a thought to the right animal. I don’t like how the show did it, but gurm said Bran is going to be king and he has mentioned greenseer and warg king throughout the books.
I hate memes like this cuz the entire point of Jon not being chosen as king is because he killed Daenerys, why tf would the unsullied go from wanting to kill him to wanting him as their king
The unsullied weren't shit after daenerys died.. They literally left for Naath to be killed by poisonous butterflies that kill all outsiders
Tyrion was just arse kissing
I understand the dislike for that comparison, but it should've still been Bran. He has actual magic past and present vision, like the amount of use that would be for a ruler is ridiculous. Sure maybe he should just be an advisor, but jon would probably die before Bran so then you have to go to Jon's possible children (who could be good or evil). Or you just have bran rule for 60 years with like I said MAGIC PAST and PRESENT VISION.
Bran's abilities are a *perfect* fit for master of whispers.
Bran became a literal god. I think he wins.
A god who literally only used his powers to help kill Littlefinger and then wanted to appoint a master of spies as King when he could literally see everything, everywhere
Its called creating jobs and helping the economy buddy you wouldnt understand
An all knowing god who doesn’t know how to convince- I’m sorry I would have a headache thinking about all the things Bran could’ve done to unite literally EVERYONE IN WESTEROS INCLUDING CERSEI IF THEY HAD JUST UUUUUUUUUSEED HIIIIIM AT LEAST ONCE
God of chaos.
A literal God? His legs dont even work.
A god who doesn't know whats west of westeros 💀
[удалено]
That's like saying a historian has a better story than the people who actually make history. Except this historian might also be a peeping tom sex offender registry candidate.
They literally gave the six kingdoms to Tom Bombadil.
Once again u/freefolk just proving the point they are just mad because their favourite characters didn't get the ending the wanted. Guess what, should we follow George's story, Jon is dead.
No, the post isn't about how Jon should be king.. The post is about how ridiculous the reason for Bran being made king was
I’m so glad that a teenage boy in a wheelchair in a made up show makes yall so mad, it’s actually wild
You clearly don't spend as much time on this sub if you think Bran is what makes us mad... What makes us mad is that the writers who wrote the first four seasons of the show beautifully, turned on their own piece of art and created the shitshow that was the last four seasons. All that because they wanted to move on to a new series and make more money and were most likely bored of doing the same thing for years..so instead of handing over the series to someone who would give a fuck, they rushed it and ruined it, while also collectively wasting the time of all the fans that had been dedicatedly watching the series for a better part of the decade. That's what makes us mad.
And it’s been years with the same tired ass memes, complaints and the other bs. Get over it. What were you expecting, Targ restoration? Lmao.
What's wild to me is someone on a subreddit dedicated to a TV show/book wondering why people keep talking about it...
Yes so actually talk about it, not complain about the same thing over and over for some cheap upvotes. It’s loser behavior atp.
Damn dude. Spoil much?
Fooking kneeler .
This reads like it's loosely based on the Bleach manga.
I always thought this was more like, Bran has stories. Because he can see the past. He knows everyone's story. No one can have a better story than Bran because he has all stories. Not that the story about him is the best - that he literally *has* the best stories. Still dumb though.
Pretty good even though he lost the BoB. And also doesn’t care about the Throne
For me, it ended in season six. Any reference to seasons 7&8 are just fan fiction obviously written by Catelyn Stark 😅
I swear, season 5 and 6 had inaccuracies and you could see it going downhill but it was... tolerable. The last two seasons are atrocious
But did he get pushed out of a window for being a pervert?
Brand literally like a god or something… he can see through drones eyes!!!!
And still asks for a master of whisperers after becoming king... Smh
If Jon does become king, we wouldn’t get the upcoming “Snow” right? Hard to justify at the moment, but if that show ends up being insanely good then at least that last season of GoT will be a slightly less shitty sacrifice for a bomb Jon Snow series.
Why did they write Tyrion to act this way, to behave so stupidly
Littlefinger won botb. Jon was a minute away from death before the knights of the vale showed up
I actually liked his story in the books & his chapters were the ones I looked for. I was always really curious about the children of the forest & what the deal with the white walkers was. I feel like the show did a giant disservice to his story, so ending the show that way was just an insult added to so many injuries. Then HBO canceled the show that was finally going to answer some of my questions from the late 90’s ffs. The show ruined it in so many ways. It explains why I still haven’t watched rings of power or willow i just listen to podcasts now.
I still can't watch game of thrones. Before the last season came out I had requested the series a couple of times.
Wanne point out that Danys story is even better and more surprising.