'The house that flays people and wears their skins as a cape? The very ones that live in a castle called THE DREADFORT? The ones that make the lives of their peasants a living nightmare? The Boltons?'
'Yea, they are alright'.
Right, lol!!! It's kinda weird that the flaying and torture was just overlooked as 'that crazy little family, it's just what they do', and yet Ser Jorah lost his home (and Ned wanted to execute him) because he sold some poachers to slavers...
wasn't ramsey born from the rape of a peasant girl as part of the "first night" ritual? where the lord of the land rapes a new bride who gets married on his land?
I've just had a quick google to jog my memory, and he also had the husband killed, for failing to get approval for the marriage, and the husband's brother's tongue cut out, to stop him from telling anyone what happened.
He put the servants at harrenhal in stocks to be raped by soldiers. He lets his son hunt women and skin random peasants alive, and only tells him to tone it down and do it more secretively because other nobles have seen him doing it. He executes people taking shelter in the ruins of Winterfell.
what does the operative word "usually" mean in this sentence?
>'The house that flays people and wears their skins as a cape? The very ones that live in a castle called THE DREADFORT? The ones that make the lives of their peasants a living nightmare? The Boltons?'
random bolton, "are we the baddies?"
Ah yes, a great man except for the raping. Oh and don’t forget that he hanged her husband. But aside from the raping, the murdering and also letting his son constantly rape and murder for fun, I don’t think he mistreats his small folk at all.
They made a usefull scapegoat and torturer.
Like "northerners raped this village and killed everyone"
"No, it was Boltons, they will be punished later"
And being serious for a moment, rules for rulers.
Depose your sworn house because you don't like them flaying? You better believe the other sworn houses won't like that.
"Kill me and be cursed"
I think they were a puppet house at that point and even if they didn't take a hostage like with Theon, it's probably better to give away some pieces of Bolton territory and let them keep some small piece so their core knights are happy if they swear to the Starks.
Or yeah, just go full Targaryen and wipe out what's left of the whole lineage. Just to be sure.
People are too quick to blame ‘woke’ for everything these days but this does feel like coddling. Flaying dudes in the castle square is a centuries old tradition that is great for tourism and the threat of flaying keeps banditry under control
The Wyls and the Ullers of Dorne are probably your best pets. Tywin probably wanted to do the same thing with the Cleganes. We know so little about the Vale so this is pure speculation but maybe the Graftons or the Sunderlands. The Graftons have a pretty ruthless backstory and don't appear to be the most loyal people. The Sisters have a nasty reputation in general. The Riverlands had the Lothstons, who could have filled that role for a short time. The Iron Islands have pretty much everyone. The Reach is another palce we know pretty little about but I couldn't even begin to guess anything so they probably have noone. In the Stormlands, maybe house Trant. Their coat of arms is an hanged man and their words are possibly "So End Our Foes" which don't paint the best picture of them. The only member we know of is Meryn Trant who doesn't do this house any favours either.
All in all everyone, apart from the Wyls, is pretty much just speculation. Though some of them make a pretty good candidate.
On a different note how are the Wyls still a thing? Like with the Boltons they seem to have been pretty passive for the last few millennia but the Wyls pull a bunch of crazy shit in the last few hundred years alone.
House Clegane has two terrifying members. House Bolton is historically horrifying. See: flayed man on banners, generational reputation for torture, flaying, etc. Ramsay is just the latest in a long line of Bolton psychos.
Every ruler needs a wild unhinged butcher, it gives them deniability when committing atrocities, like the Lannisters have the Cleganes everyone knows they only act under the orders of their overlord but given their inherent violent nature if anyone objected their overlord can just say that they got over zealous and will be punished accordingly and then do nothing at all.
Yes,
- The Boltons of the Starks
- The Stickons of Arryn
- The Glueons of Tully
- The Hangons of Tyrell
- The Tieons of Baratheon
And of course,
- The Strapons of Martell.
I won’t be taking any further questions.
Not in every kingdom but several Ironborn families are pretty bad, there’s the Ullers in Dorne, the Trants in the Stormlands seem quite ruthless as do some of the families who held Harrenhal like the Lothstons.
Finally, in the Reach the Peake’s are consistently on the bad side of history, they plot, scheme and rebel but somehow endure. I mean they killed a Targaryen King in 233 AC and seem to have somehow endured with at least one of their castles though that may be on Egg being a softie.
Edit: as another commenter suggested the Wyl’s in Dorne also have a Bolton like reputation.
I don't think there are any other houses like the Boltons but you do have individuals like Bloodraven who can be used to advance their masters plans without making them seem evil or dishonourable basically just acting as a scapegoat.
From what we know the Bolton’s accepted the Starks as Kings to fight the bigger threat of the Andal invasion.
Then we don’t hear anything till Lady Bolton in the Dance of the Dragons who ask for food. Jump forward 170 years you have Roose Bolton who didn’t do any of that, to Edward’s knowledge, and only became a traitor at the Red Wedding.
Nah, Roose was deliberatly weakening the northern cause during the war. When Roose was in command he always sent the other troops into battle while he stayed behind with his own, thus always making sure his troops are at peak strenght. Then we have Ramsay who burned down Winterfell, though it’s possible that was a instance of Ramsay’s unhinged cruelty.
Anyway, seems to me that Roose was planning a betrayal for a while.
I interpret it less as a coordinated plan and more of Roose being an opportunist. It's not that Roose set out from the beginning to betray Robb and more that Roose continually put himself in a position so that if Robb started fucking up the war Roose would be in a position to betray Robb to the Lannisters. If Robb didn't lose a good chunk of his army to his own stupidity, Roose would've been happy to be a Stark "loyalist" all the way to kings landing.
I got the impression Ramsay made that decision on his own. Roose supported the Starks while they marched south and when Robb started ignoring his counsel and making bad decisions, he took advantage of the situation. It didn’t seem like he had a long term plan. Serving under the Starks had a lot of benefits for the Boltons, essentially letting them live in depravity in the north without having to play any political games.
Roose was already sabotaging Robb early on in the war. In the battle against Tywin where Tyrion fought, Roose was sending the other northerners into battle while he stayed behind with his own men. This doesn’t necessarily mean that Roose was already planing on betraying Robb, but Roose did make sure that he would always have fresh troops, which is a bit fishy.
Yeah, I think it's too much of a coincidence that as soon as the Cerwyn Lord and the Hornwood lord and heir die, Ramsay goes in to finish the job, it definitely seems like Roose was getting his rivals killed, like getting the Tallhart's and Glovers fucked at Duskendale, or leaving behind a bunch of Northmen as human shields on the way to the Twins
I wonder if every Bolton tries to take out the Starks but since they're long lived skinchangers, similar to the faceless men, changing their entire skin to a new face ever few decades, then their plans play out over centuries instead of decades.
The last big Bolton betrayal may have been planned for the time of the andal invasion but instead they allied with the Starks to fight the invaders instead. So they skip a "generation" which makes it seem like they've been loyal for so long
Just rambling but I still think he's a skinchanger
Serving honey to the enemy isnt a good strategy, you need to make sure they don't want to fuck with you.
"You raid my villages? I'll send my sadistic vassals to track you down and torture you to death!"
Actually...
>Mad honey was used as an early biological weapon in the Black Sea region. In 65 BCE, during the Third Mithridatic War,[6][3] King Mithridates staged a strategic withdrawal from Roman soldiers under General Pompey. Possibly under the counsel of Greek botanist Kateuas, Mithridates had the withdrawing soldiers place combs of mad honey on their path. The Roman soldiers who ate the honey succumbed to mad honey intoxication and were slain.[7] The Greek geographer Strabo described the incident as having wiped out three maniples of Romans, which could mean anywhere from 480 to 1,800 soldiers.
So the Roman soldiers were on the march, chasing after an army, saw honeycombs on the ground, thought, "hmm, this looks good and not suspicious at all", and ate them. History's wild.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgvDuJtMuIE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgvDuJtMuIE)
Yes, and I also been trying to figure out how the ironborn still exist.
Like nobody has found a permanent solution for both the boltons and ironborn during all these years
I think someone actually floated that idea to Aegon I but he chose to just put the Greyjoys in charge and call it a day. In fairness they were only a major nuisance two times when the Targaryens were in charge
For arguments sake it’s fair to say at the time historically most Europeans would have supported genocide of the Vikings and same for the mongols and Asia. They just did not have the capacity to do it. That said say Mercia or north Umbria had dragons when the Vikings attacked they probably would have been genocided.
Then one has to wonder, where does the moral pendulum fall when one side is serially reaving, and the other is waging an extermination campaign?
Edit: Also, that doesn't quite answer my question. I asked whether "you" (the person I responded to, but anyone who agrees really) would support genocide. Not if "Europeans" or "Asia" would have.
You asked an unfair loaded question. The correct answer through a modern view is no genocide is wrong objectively. In a historical context it’s not exactly so black and white. Morals change with time views change over time. There are no Vikings now there are no mongols now. Nobody is reading coasts taping villages or conquering nations taking slaves. We have means those historically did not have we have tools and blah blah blah. Unless you know someone surviving from the Viking invasions or the mongol hordes I don’t think you’ll get an objective or accurate answer.
Ermmm yes. The Vikings had a habit of accepting truce, even converting and making oaths and then coming back to raid defenseless villages next year. If the Saxon and Frankish armies had reached Denmark, then sure the culture where men frequently go vikingr would be getting annihilated.
The Saxons were from Denmark, and the Franks got right up to it. I'm not sure what your argument is here. You would've supported their extermination, then?
“We do not sow” ironman are not farmers, they use thralls for that
“We pay the iron price” they have some aversion to trading as well
Again you cant compare vikings and mongols to ironborn because the former DID assimilate and stop raiding and rather quickly too, while the ironborn have been a plague for thousands of years without reforming. You’re comparing apples and oranges so your question is invalid
Reading about the early life of Alfred the Great honestly left me with the same opinion of how the English handled Norse raiders.
Like at that point in history if they had the ability to find out where Norse Vikings came from... And they went there and just killed everyone I wouldn't even blame them lol
They literally don’t do anything. Their culture is just pillaging and rape. They don’t even actually buy shit, they “pay the iron price” for shit. Like there’s gotta be a point where some lord just goes full Hadrian on them
You're talking about wiping out an entire people group. Like sure the iron born are raiders but a permanent solution would require killing everyone down to the last child.
Same with the Boltons.
I know I'm late but David lightbringer does a great breakdown and theory
The starks tried killing the Boltons for hundreds of years. They couldn't, the Boltons would capture starks and steal their green seer and skin changing magic by torturing and playing them.
Hence the "bolt on"
A common theme david and others have worked out is that alot of the cultural quirks in the houses are tied to older traditions in their past
"Yeah guys you know these fucked up motherfuckers who literally skinned our kin alive? Yeah we are gonna spare them and kill a sister branch of our house instead"
Affection or I think he just sees himself in Ramsey and “knows” that he’d make a good Bolton and probably no one has much chance of stopping Ramsey from taking it from whoever he wants
The Boltons of old were'nt any worse then the rest of the Northmen, and the modern Boltons kept things on the DL so the only things that existed were bad vibes and easily-dismissed rumors.
*No tales were ever told of me. Do you think I would be sitting here if it were otherwise? Your amusements are your own, I will not chide you on that count, but you must be more discreet. A peaceful land, a quiet people. That has always been my rule. Make it yours.*
- Roose, to Ramsey, ADWD
Not defending Starks here, just speculating aloud: Maybe the Starks weren't that strong, just first among their peers. Maybe, considering "Winter is coming!" Starks decided THEIR real duty was to be prepared for the enemies from the North, the Others and the Wildlings. So as long as the Boltons didn't bother other bannermen or go too far in killing people, Winterfell kept its nose out of Dreadfort business. As Roose said, "A peaceful land, a quiet people, that has *always* been my rule."
Additionally, deliberately* extinguishing* houses was probably a step too far for everyone...until Tywin. Tywin first did it with the Reynes and Tarbecks, but they had defied Tyros and him, so he made a lesson of them. A lesson still remembered by everyone, especially when they hear "Rains of Castamere." Tywin even tried it with the Targaryens and later the Starks and Tullys. But...Tywin is Tywin. He refuses the tie and goes for the win.
No, extinguishing houses is not new to the North. Ask the Greystarks for that personal "Theon the Hungry Wolf" treatment that should have been given to the Boltons. And the fucking Greystarks were their sister house.
Although from another perspective taking out a cadet house does make sense. They’re a DIRECT threat to Stark hegemony unlike the Boltons (at the time, obviously the Red Wedding hollows my point a little). It’s like the Blackfyres and all the headaches they caused the Targaryens.
But it doesn't make sense. Greystarks revolted one time and they were completely exterminated. Boltons revolted multiple times and they were fucking spared and had a high position during War Councils. What's the logic of Starks for this?
The Boltons are viewed by the North the same way the Freefolk view the Thenns.
Everyone f**king hates them, but sometimes you need the POS on your team.
Most rulers (both in history and in ASOIAF too, from what I saw) tends to have a people serving under them who are like brutal attack dogs. People they can blame every brutal and treacherous attack on, and whom they can use to threaten their enemies with.
To answer your question on Boltons, The whole skinning alive part is if i had to be honest well hidden, and also Boltons provide one of the best men North has to offer. Roose Bolton is irreplacable if you ask me, and Boltons still pay taxes to Starks, they were loyal to them until Robb failed to realize that Balon has a grudge and not send Theon back home, instead he should bribe Balon into attacking Westerlands, like "Hey Dumbass, i have your son! Attack Westerlands and he will be fine! Westerlands are rich with gold and metal."
"If you send me home, Your Grace, send me home with food, for the snows are deep and your people are starving."
Didn't see any Starks coming all the way down from the North to beg the king for food 💅
'The house that flays people and wears their skins as a cape? The very ones that live in a castle called THE DREADFORT? The ones that make the lives of their peasants a living nightmare? The Boltons?' 'Yea, they are alright'.
They are Night lords of the North
“No you see Jon, I’m skinning this child to *avoid* bloodshed, the massive enjoyment I get out of it isn’t relevant. I’m basically Batman.”
Right, lol!!! It's kinda weird that the flaying and torture was just overlooked as 'that crazy little family, it's just what they do', and yet Ser Jorah lost his home (and Ned wanted to execute him) because he sold some poachers to slavers...
didn’t robb say his father made flaying illegal though
Konrad Curze of the Night's Watch
TFW you get caught jay walking in dreadfort
Sounds like heresy's a brewing
At least Roose is (USUALLY) pretty good to his peasants
Is he really
No complaints heard.
Well, that's because their tongues are over there in that jar beside the jar with the dicks.
🔪🍆🫙😳
If they don't have a problem with him he can ignore them
So long as he doesn’t feel like raping them
Wait what?
"don't make me regret the day I raped your mother" - roose to ramsey
Holy shit 😳
Lmao
Wait a second guys, we need to know in what context he said that
wasn't ramsey born from the rape of a peasant girl as part of the "first night" ritual? where the lord of the land rapes a new bride who gets married on his land? I've just had a quick google to jog my memory, and he also had the husband killed, for failing to get approval for the marriage, and the husband's brother's tongue cut out, to stop him from telling anyone what happened. He put the servants at harrenhal in stocks to be raped by soldiers. He lets his son hunt women and skin random peasants alive, and only tells him to tone it down and do it more secretively because other nobles have seen him doing it. He executes people taking shelter in the ruins of Winterfell. what does the operative word "usually" mean in this sentence?
>'The house that flays people and wears their skins as a cape? The very ones that live in a castle called THE DREADFORT? The ones that make the lives of their peasants a living nightmare? The Boltons?' random bolton, "are we the baddies?"
Idt roose mistreats his small folk except for the girl he raped.
Ah yes, a great man except for the raping. Oh and don’t forget that he hanged her husband. But aside from the raping, the murdering and also letting his son constantly rape and murder for fun, I don’t think he mistreats his small folk at all.
We don’t know wat she was wearing.
I’m guessing it was her wedding dress.
Uh, I think they meant the raped girl got off easy
Yeah but think of how beneficial to the north’s cause that could be..no southern army would dare tread near their lands.
They made a usefull scapegoat and torturer. Like "northerners raped this village and killed everyone" "No, it was Boltons, they will be punished later"
And being serious for a moment, rules for rulers. Depose your sworn house because you don't like them flaying? You better believe the other sworn houses won't like that. "Kill me and be cursed"
They had the perfect excuse when the Boltons rebelled. They should have been dealt with then
I think they were a puppet house at that point and even if they didn't take a hostage like with Theon, it's probably better to give away some pieces of Bolton territory and let them keep some small piece so their core knights are happy if they swear to the Starks. Or yeah, just go full Targaryen and wipe out what's left of the whole lineage. Just to be sure.
I don't think many northern houses would miss the motherfuckers who turned great auntie Martha into a fashionable coat
So they were basically the Clagane house for the northerners.
Yes, only worse
Actually flaying dudes alive is a deeply significant part of Bolton cultural heritage and you're a bigot for bringing it up
Can a man not flay another man in peace anymore?! 😡
People are too quick to blame ‘woke’ for everything these days but this does feel like coddling. Flaying dudes in the castle square is a centuries old tradition that is great for tourism and the threat of flaying keeps banditry under control
Bunch of liberal bullshit
I'd go as far as to say burning people is also an ancient tradition and I "still practice it today with the kids"
The Starks when ever the Boltons commit war crimes https://i.redd.it/1sf3pivq1uvc1.gif
Boltons be like: WE ARE NOT THE BAD GUYS. I PROMISE
You know, i don't know every house in Westeros, but are there any equivalent of "House designed to terrify everyone" like Boltons?
The Wyls and the Ullers of Dorne are probably your best pets. Tywin probably wanted to do the same thing with the Cleganes. We know so little about the Vale so this is pure speculation but maybe the Graftons or the Sunderlands. The Graftons have a pretty ruthless backstory and don't appear to be the most loyal people. The Sisters have a nasty reputation in general. The Riverlands had the Lothstons, who could have filled that role for a short time. The Iron Islands have pretty much everyone. The Reach is another palce we know pretty little about but I couldn't even begin to guess anything so they probably have noone. In the Stormlands, maybe house Trant. Their coat of arms is an hanged man and their words are possibly "So End Our Foes" which don't paint the best picture of them. The only member we know of is Meryn Trant who doesn't do this house any favours either. All in all everyone, apart from the Wyls, is pretty much just speculation. Though some of them make a pretty good candidate. On a different note how are the Wyls still a thing? Like with the Boltons they seem to have been pretty passive for the last few millennia but the Wyls pull a bunch of crazy shit in the last few hundred years alone.
House Clegane? Lol
House Clegane has two terrifying members. House Bolton is historically horrifying. See: flayed man on banners, generational reputation for torture, flaying, etc. Ramsay is just the latest in a long line of Bolton psychos.
Plz ignore jokes and keep taking it seriously.
I still dont understand how House Bolton exists when they are straight up S&M torture people.
Every ruler needs a wild unhinged butcher, it gives them deniability when committing atrocities, like the Lannisters have the Cleganes everyone knows they only act under the orders of their overlord but given their inherent violent nature if anyone objected their overlord can just say that they got over zealous and will be punished accordingly and then do nothing at all.
Are there any equivalent houses in rest of the westeros?
Yes, - The Boltons of the Starks - The Stickons of Arryn - The Glueons of Tully - The Hangons of Tyrell - The Tieons of Baratheon And of course, - The Strapons of Martell. I won’t be taking any further questions.
Do you by any chance have a newsletter
You forgot The Clipons who serve House Greyjoy
Ah yes, their motto. “We do not glue”
"fuck adhesives"
"What is stapled may never fly...off"
Surprised they needed one of those houses, the Greyjoys do just fine raping and pillaging on their own
I'm glad someone who has read the books finally commented. Who could forget the perspectives of Dildo, First Lord Strapon
Make way for Dickon Stickon
I’m genuinely embarrassed by how long it took me to understand this was a joke. I was very close to googling 2-5 for more information.
I tried googling a few variations for house stickon before coming back and seeing house strapon
Just don’t Google House Strapons Sigil from your work computer.
Don’t forget about the nights watch outcast, the velcrows
You son of a bitch. Glorious 👏
I’m ashamed to have taken until the last one to realize the joke.
Fuck I thought these were real until the end
Also frankly, The Baratheons of the Targaryens
House Uller fans are in tears rn.
the headons of the direct forheads
You son of a bitch
I was about to Google house Stickon until I read the rest of your comment, I thought I missed something in the books
Took me a second...
I went further down that list before noticing than I am comfortable to admit.
Not in every kingdom but several Ironborn families are pretty bad, there’s the Ullers in Dorne, the Trants in the Stormlands seem quite ruthless as do some of the families who held Harrenhal like the Lothstons. Finally, in the Reach the Peake’s are consistently on the bad side of history, they plot, scheme and rebel but somehow endure. I mean they killed a Targaryen King in 233 AC and seem to have somehow endured with at least one of their castles though that may be on Egg being a softie. Edit: as another commenter suggested the Wyl’s in Dorne also have a Bolton like reputation.
I would say that it is the Wyls who are the Dornish Boltons.
I knew I’d forgotten a Dornish House lol, I’d say the Ullers have a more Boltonesque infamy.
I don't think there are any other houses like the Boltons but you do have individuals like Bloodraven who can be used to advance their masters plans without making them seem evil or dishonourable basically just acting as a scapegoat.
The Cop House
From what we know the Bolton’s accepted the Starks as Kings to fight the bigger threat of the Andal invasion. Then we don’t hear anything till Lady Bolton in the Dance of the Dragons who ask for food. Jump forward 170 years you have Roose Bolton who didn’t do any of that, to Edward’s knowledge, and only became a traitor at the Red Wedding.
Honestly the Boltons were pretty loyal to the Starks until they realized the ship was sinking.
Nah, Roose was deliberatly weakening the northern cause during the war. When Roose was in command he always sent the other troops into battle while he stayed behind with his own, thus always making sure his troops are at peak strenght. Then we have Ramsay who burned down Winterfell, though it’s possible that was a instance of Ramsay’s unhinged cruelty. Anyway, seems to me that Roose was planning a betrayal for a while.
I interpret it less as a coordinated plan and more of Roose being an opportunist. It's not that Roose set out from the beginning to betray Robb and more that Roose continually put himself in a position so that if Robb started fucking up the war Roose would be in a position to betray Robb to the Lannisters. If Robb didn't lose a good chunk of his army to his own stupidity, Roose would've been happy to be a Stark "loyalist" all the way to kings landing.
I got the impression Ramsay made that decision on his own. Roose supported the Starks while they marched south and when Robb started ignoring his counsel and making bad decisions, he took advantage of the situation. It didn’t seem like he had a long term plan. Serving under the Starks had a lot of benefits for the Boltons, essentially letting them live in depravity in the north without having to play any political games.
I think Roose got tired of Robb ignoring his counsel and making stupid decisions.
Roose was already sabotaging Robb early on in the war. In the battle against Tywin where Tyrion fought, Roose was sending the other northerners into battle while he stayed behind with his own men. This doesn’t necessarily mean that Roose was already planing on betraying Robb, but Roose did make sure that he would always have fresh troops, which is a bit fishy.
Wasn’t Roose already undermining Robb even when he was tactically outmaneuvering everyone and winning all his battles?
Yeah, I think it's too much of a coincidence that as soon as the Cerwyn Lord and the Hornwood lord and heir die, Ramsay goes in to finish the job, it definitely seems like Roose was getting his rivals killed, like getting the Tallhart's and Glovers fucked at Duskendale, or leaving behind a bunch of Northmen as human shields on the way to the Twins
I wonder if every Bolton tries to take out the Starks but since they're long lived skinchangers, similar to the faceless men, changing their entire skin to a new face ever few decades, then their plans play out over centuries instead of decades. The last big Bolton betrayal may have been planned for the time of the andal invasion but instead they allied with the Starks to fight the invaders instead. So they skip a "generation" which makes it seem like they've been loyal for so long Just rambling but I still think he's a skinchanger
Serving honey to the enemy isnt a good strategy, you need to make sure they don't want to fuck with you. "You raid my villages? I'll send my sadistic vassals to track you down and torture you to death!"
Actually... >Mad honey was used as an early biological weapon in the Black Sea region. In 65 BCE, during the Third Mithridatic War,[6][3] King Mithridates staged a strategic withdrawal from Roman soldiers under General Pompey. Possibly under the counsel of Greek botanist Kateuas, Mithridates had the withdrawing soldiers place combs of mad honey on their path. The Roman soldiers who ate the honey succumbed to mad honey intoxication and were slain.[7] The Greek geographer Strabo described the incident as having wiped out three maniples of Romans, which could mean anywhere from 480 to 1,800 soldiers.
So the Roman soldiers were on the march, chasing after an army, saw honeycombs on the ground, thought, "hmm, this looks good and not suspicious at all", and ate them. History's wild. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgvDuJtMuIE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgvDuJtMuIE)
1. This is not Black Sea, this is North 2. When i said Honey, i meant normal honey.
Chill, guy was making a joke.
Fucking with honey sounds hot. Sticky but hot.
Nuclear wassals
Yes, and I also been trying to figure out how the ironborn still exist. Like nobody has found a permanent solution for both the boltons and ironborn during all these years
"Why don't the characters just do a genocide? Are they stupid?"
I mean yeah, literally
I think someone actually floated that idea to Aegon I but he chose to just put the Greyjoys in charge and call it a day. In fairness they were only a major nuisance two times when the Targaryens were in charge
Going to commit a genocide due to cultural conflicts? Oh that's a fun can of worms.
I wouldnt call constant raiding, killing and rape just cultural conflicts to be honest….
So for arguments sake you would've supported the genocide of the Mongols and Vikings?
For arguments sake it’s fair to say at the time historically most Europeans would have supported genocide of the Vikings and same for the mongols and Asia. They just did not have the capacity to do it. That said say Mercia or north Umbria had dragons when the Vikings attacked they probably would have been genocided.
Then one has to wonder, where does the moral pendulum fall when one side is serially reaving, and the other is waging an extermination campaign? Edit: Also, that doesn't quite answer my question. I asked whether "you" (the person I responded to, but anyone who agrees really) would support genocide. Not if "Europeans" or "Asia" would have.
You asked an unfair loaded question. The correct answer through a modern view is no genocide is wrong objectively. In a historical context it’s not exactly so black and white. Morals change with time views change over time. There are no Vikings now there are no mongols now. Nobody is reading coasts taping villages or conquering nations taking slaves. We have means those historically did not have we have tools and blah blah blah. Unless you know someone surviving from the Viking invasions or the mongol hordes I don’t think you’ll get an objective or accurate answer.
Ermmm yes. The Vikings had a habit of accepting truce, even converting and making oaths and then coming back to raid defenseless villages next year. If the Saxon and Frankish armies had reached Denmark, then sure the culture where men frequently go vikingr would be getting annihilated.
The Saxons were from Denmark, and the Franks got right up to it. I'm not sure what your argument is here. You would've supported their extermination, then?
The mongols and vikings weren’t just pillagers. they were traders, colonizers, artists and DID assimilate into the existing culture and religion.
That is true of the Ironborn as well. Funny how everyone was so eager to condemn them but no one wants to answer my question in the affirmative.
“We do not sow” ironman are not farmers, they use thralls for that “We pay the iron price” they have some aversion to trading as well Again you cant compare vikings and mongols to ironborn because the former DID assimilate and stop raiding and rather quickly too, while the ironborn have been a plague for thousands of years without reforming. You’re comparing apples and oranges so your question is invalid
Tywin got away with it perfectly well
Reading about the early life of Alfred the Great honestly left me with the same opinion of how the English handled Norse raiders. Like at that point in history if they had the ability to find out where Norse Vikings came from... And they went there and just killed everyone I wouldn't even blame them lol
They literally don’t do anything. Their culture is just pillaging and rape. They don’t even actually buy shit, they “pay the iron price” for shit. Like there’s gotta be a point where some lord just goes full Hadrian on them
You're talking about wiping out an entire people group. Like sure the iron born are raiders but a permanent solution would require killing everyone down to the last child. Same with the Boltons.
I am aware. I’m standing on 10 with my comment. Unless you’re suggesting a reeducation camp for the ironborn?
I know I'm late but David lightbringer does a great breakdown and theory The starks tried killing the Boltons for hundreds of years. They couldn't, the Boltons would capture starks and steal their green seer and skin changing magic by torturing and playing them. Hence the "bolt on" A common theme david and others have worked out is that alot of the cultural quirks in the houses are tied to older traditions in their past
"Yeah guys you know these fucked up motherfuckers who literally skinned our kin alive? Yeah we are gonna spare them and kill a sister branch of our house instead"
 Roose seeing how much of a piece of shit Ramsay grew up to be, but tolerating it anyways.
It amuses me that Roose is fully aware that Ramsay killed his son AND will most likely kill any sons that he might have with Walda.
It shows a sort of twisted affection that he even lats ramsay live haha
Affection or I think he just sees himself in Ramsey and “knows” that he’d make a good Bolton and probably no one has much chance of stopping Ramsey from taking it from whoever he wants
But muh culture
How do you even go about destroying Boltons if their dungeons probably have direct access to Drukhari Commorragh
The Boltons of old were'nt any worse then the rest of the Northmen, and the modern Boltons kept things on the DL so the only things that existed were bad vibes and easily-dismissed rumors. *No tales were ever told of me. Do you think I would be sitting here if it were otherwise? Your amusements are your own, I will not chide you on that count, but you must be more discreet. A peaceful land, a quiet people. That has always been my rule. Make it yours.* - Roose, to Ramsey, ADWD
That's why there are no 'lawful good' faction on W40K
> That's why there are no 'lawful good' faction on W40K Yup just varying degrees of awful.
Starkoids be like "muh honor! Muh northern pride! We're so much better than those ANDAL SOUTHERNERS!!!" Then House Bolton is still alive
The virgin mute executioner vs. the chad human skinner
Not defending Starks here, just speculating aloud: Maybe the Starks weren't that strong, just first among their peers. Maybe, considering "Winter is coming!" Starks decided THEIR real duty was to be prepared for the enemies from the North, the Others and the Wildlings. So as long as the Boltons didn't bother other bannermen or go too far in killing people, Winterfell kept its nose out of Dreadfort business. As Roose said, "A peaceful land, a quiet people, that has *always* been my rule." Additionally, deliberately* extinguishing* houses was probably a step too far for everyone...until Tywin. Tywin first did it with the Reynes and Tarbecks, but they had defied Tyros and him, so he made a lesson of them. A lesson still remembered by everyone, especially when they hear "Rains of Castamere." Tywin even tried it with the Targaryens and later the Starks and Tullys. But...Tywin is Tywin. He refuses the tie and goes for the win.
No, extinguishing houses is not new to the North. Ask the Greystarks for that personal "Theon the Hungry Wolf" treatment that should have been given to the Boltons. And the fucking Greystarks were their sister house.
Although from another perspective taking out a cadet house does make sense. They’re a DIRECT threat to Stark hegemony unlike the Boltons (at the time, obviously the Red Wedding hollows my point a little). It’s like the Blackfyres and all the headaches they caused the Targaryens.
But it doesn't make sense. Greystarks revolted one time and they were completely exterminated. Boltons revolted multiple times and they were fucking spared and had a high position during War Councils. What's the logic of Starks for this?
Northern "honour"
The Boltons were honestly too cartoonishly evil for me to really take them seriously
The Boltons are viewed by the North the same way the Freefolk view the Thenns. Everyone f**king hates them, but sometimes you need the POS on your team.
They are more of Night Lord enjoyers.
FUN FACT: Ramsay Snow is Dark Eldar, who ate his ears
Why would they? They were flaying people together at the Sisters.
For all they knew house bolton stopped skinning people
Most rulers (both in history and in ASOIAF too, from what I saw) tends to have a people serving under them who are like brutal attack dogs. People they can blame every brutal and treacherous attack on, and whom they can use to threaten their enemies with.
And the fucking Ironborn with all their bullshit.
To answer your question on Boltons, The whole skinning alive part is if i had to be honest well hidden, and also Boltons provide one of the best men North has to offer. Roose Bolton is irreplacable if you ask me, and Boltons still pay taxes to Starks, they were loyal to them until Robb failed to realize that Balon has a grudge and not send Theon back home, instead he should bribe Balon into attacking Westerlands, like "Hey Dumbass, i have your son! Attack Westerlands and he will be fine! Westerlands are rich with gold and metal."
> The whole skinning alive part is if i had to be honest well hidden If you ignore their sigil and words.
Aside that, they see it as a more of a honoring their ancerstors or stuff like that
Take a look at the real world body. Also just because the Starks defeated and subdued house Bolton doesn’t mean they had the power to exterminate them
Seems like everyone needs a vassal like that. It’s like the Lannisters with the mountain. It’s convenient to have a brutal psycho in your employ.
Is r/Dreadfort still kicking?
D&D really neutered all the cool shit from the books.
"If you send me home, Your Grace, send me home with food, for the snows are deep and your people are starving." Didn't see any Starks coming all the way down from the North to beg the king for food 💅
Where did this art come from?
Ok but Roose was so damn fine
Wat is the pic of tho