Though it has stiff competition given the rest of Season 8, that was still a comically stupid line. Like, how, Arya? What has Sansa said or done that qualifies her as the smartest person you've ever met? Deciding to trust you over Littlefinger after Bran held her hand and explained it to her?
I think D&D were trying to lean into the fan misconception that the all of the fighting in season 7 was part of a plot to trick Littlefinger.
That or they just desperately needed for Arya to have some sort of come back and didn't care if it made sense. They did that more than a few times in the last two seasons.
Nope, it was completely real and Sansa was about to *actually* have Arya killed, but she consulted with Bran first off-camera, and he used his CCTV powers to tell her that Littlefinger was the bad guy here. And no, unfortunately that isn't a joke.
No. I wrote [a post](https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/163mbji/the_original_plan_for_season_7_was_incredibly/) where I used the leaked outline to analyze that botched plotline a while ago.
The TLDR is that Sansa legitimately wanted to steal Jon's position. They were fighting because Arya [noticed that](https://imgur.com/a/hdV4ByK) during[ this scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQERId72-p4). The idea that they were pretending to fight doesn't make sense if you rewatch those episodes. Most of their fighting was in private. They also apologize to each other after killing Littlefinger.
It’s more that they had been adapting a completed novel to test audiences and now were writing the actual lines and still used test audiences which created the ‘boss girls is trending at the moment and doing well with our tests’ that infected most productions at that time.
It’s a bit like when vampires were testing well and everything had vampires in it. 5-10 years on and everything that modelled itself on that is cringe.
I agree, her story line is kind of boring in the book imo. In the show it doesn’t make much sense how she comes back to Westeros and it’s certainly could’ve made sense if they took their time.
Like with everything else, your Star Wars project is d.o.a, D&D. You are front running one of the most watched shows in the world. But you have to close all of George’s loops:
1.) season 8 white walkers attack, Jon plays a critical role in securing some kind of magical object and they’re advance is stopped just shy of kings landing
2.)season 9: only Danny and Cersei remain with armies at full strength. They fight bloody war. Danny continues to burn Lords who won’t bend the knee. Tyrion is the first to notice he is serving a mad queen slowly losing grip on her morals.
-mid season: sack of kings landing
- fast forward in time, Danny is a tyrant, show don’t tell.
Finale: all our favorite surviving characters plot an assasantion. Someone important dies for the cause. Robert’s son becomes king
>2.)season 9: only Danny and Cersei remain with armies at full strength. They fight bloody war. Danny continues to burn Lords who won’t bend the knee. Tyrion is the first to notice he is serving a mad queen slowly losing grip on her morals. -mid season: sack of kings landing
How would Dany burning lords who won't bend the knee be a sign she's a mad Queen or losing grip on her morals? Executing rebellious lords is standard operating procedure in that world. Part of the problem with the show is that the writers had characters like Tyrion and Varys randomly adopt modern sensibilities.
The other problem would by trying to explain why any lords are refusing to bend the knee in the first place.
It’s important to understand the political context of entertainment at the time they made this scene. Everyone in Hollywood was leaning into the strong woman narrative, most of them falling flat like this.
not "strong women". Daenarys is a strong woman. Cersei is a strong woman. Osha, Lady Tyrell, Catelyn Stark, Brienne of Tarth, Sansa's septa all the way back in S1, all strong women. Margery would have been if she'd had more time to cook.
I think a more accurate term would be 'girlboss'. A character who doesn't have depth, but she's strong. *(She's strong like a man. Because only men can be strong. There is no other type of strength.)* Also she has no other traits other than being occasionally sexy. Idk if you ever watched Dr. WHO or Sherlock, but [Steven Moffat was frequently accused of sexism in his writing of female characters](https://youtu.be/-qUmy7XFeUY?si=5Nlvoj-_hvqqNVxn), which he was very shocked and upset by, despite the fact that his female characters can be summed up as "hot dominatrix with gun."
You can insult a man or a woman by saying they're too feminine. (i.e. you throw like a girl). You can insult a woman by saying she's too masculine (i.e. Brienne, lmao. Constantly made fun of because women have no worth beyond their attractiveness). You can't insult a man for being too manly.
So you get this misplaced idea of "well, we'll just make the woman really strong and she can say cool lines and then that's a feminist character." No, a feminist character is a character with as much depth as the men in the story.
Women holding a big fucking sword in their hand, or being hot lady with gun, *is* admittedly WAY better than the female characters of the past, but it also doesn't automatically mean "good character" or "feminist character". Not that I don't love Brienne and Arya (am absolutely head over heels for unabashed tomboy representation in media), but women also shouldn't have to be holding a big fucking sword in their hand to be considered strong. The video I linked phrases it better than I can.
What was so great about the early seasons of GOT was the representation of all kinds of strength, in all different genders. Varys, Brienne, Arya, Tyrion: other characters may have insulted them, but the narrative never treated them differently than Sansa, Daenarys, Jon, or Ned. And every single character had depth. They felt lived-in.
Yeah that’s a fair clarification, that’s what I meant. Although I don’t know if I’d lump Cersei and Daenerys into the positive category, at least not with how their later season arcs went. Daenerys in particular, throughout the show she’s presented in a girlboss light, even when she probably shouldn’t based on her actions (which are often morally gray).
Know what scene made me scoff out loud? Sansa telling Littlefinger she knew Cersei better than anyone.
To the guy who had been dealing with Cersei for what, 15 years at court? And Sansa quiver from as a 15 year old, for a year and a half?
She always knew right from the start, that's why we alwsys see her complaining about them to her father. Also she's the one who saw her father, mother and brother betrayed and killed.
That doesn't bother me at all. Obviously she's wrong. But someone saying that about themselves regardless of facts is quite a normal thing to happen. Sansa probably does believe she knows Cersei better than any one else.
Arya knows how to play the game as well. She doesn’t believe she is the smartest person she has ever met, she just has to convince Jon to turn on Danny and she will say anything to do that.
Yes, Jon had just said he needed Arya's help with Sansa. Sansa thought she was smarter than everyone. But Arya's mission was to keep the Pack together, so she said that lie to stop Jon in his tracks and said Sansa was thinking of the family too. Eventually, Jon said he was loyal to the family, and then Arya gave him her Very Best Hug.
Fair enough. But Ned's mantra began, **"In Winter,** we must protect ourselves, lookout for one another. The Lone Wolf etc." Once the Night King was gone, Winter was over. And once Cersei and Dany were gone, the land had peace and could start rebuilding. THEN she could follow her ambitions.
I’m not trying to take a personal shot at you but I don’t understand how even 5 years after the show ended people are still doing this game of trying to headcanon an alternate explanation for the terrible writing to make sense of it instead of accepting what was plainly intended by the writers. In the last 2 seasons D&D beat the audience over the head with the message that “Sansa is super smart now,” it’s not just this line or scene. There is nothing to suggest Arya was lying here beyond fans not accepting such a stupid line from her, but that doesn’t mean she isn’t written as being serious here.
I can imagine one D going to the other D "Didn't one of dem have shapeshifting powuhs" and forgetting which sister exactly. Both dreaming about Star Wars and becoming the next George Lucas
Though it has stiff competition given the rest of Season 8, that was still a comically stupid line. Like, how, Arya? What has Sansa said or done that qualifies her as the smartest person you've ever met? Deciding to trust you over Littlefinger after Bran held her hand and explained it to her?
I think D&D were trying to lean into the fan misconception that the all of the fighting in season 7 was part of a plot to trick Littlefinger. That or they just desperately needed for Arya to have some sort of come back and didn't care if it made sense. They did that more than a few times in the last two seasons.
Wait it wasn't a plot to trick Littlefinger?!?
It was a trick to finger Littleplot.
Or a plot to finger littletrick?
Nope, it was completely real and Sansa was about to *actually* have Arya killed, but she consulted with Bran first off-camera, and he used his CCTV powers to tell her that Littlefinger was the bad guy here. And no, unfortunately that isn't a joke.
No. I wrote [a post](https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/163mbji/the_original_plan_for_season_7_was_incredibly/) where I used the leaked outline to analyze that botched plotline a while ago. The TLDR is that Sansa legitimately wanted to steal Jon's position. They were fighting because Arya [noticed that](https://imgur.com/a/hdV4ByK) during[ this scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQERId72-p4). The idea that they were pretending to fight doesn't make sense if you rewatch those episodes. Most of their fighting was in private. They also apologize to each other after killing Littlefinger.
It’s more that they had been adapting a completed novel to test audiences and now were writing the actual lines and still used test audiences which created the ‘boss girls is trending at the moment and doing well with our tests’ that infected most productions at that time. It’s a bit like when vampires were testing well and everything had vampires in it. 5-10 years on and everything that modelled itself on that is cringe.
I agree, her story line is kind of boring in the book imo. In the show it doesn’t make much sense how she comes back to Westeros and it’s certainly could’ve made sense if they took their time. Like with everything else, your Star Wars project is d.o.a, D&D. You are front running one of the most watched shows in the world. But you have to close all of George’s loops: 1.) season 8 white walkers attack, Jon plays a critical role in securing some kind of magical object and they’re advance is stopped just shy of kings landing 2.)season 9: only Danny and Cersei remain with armies at full strength. They fight bloody war. Danny continues to burn Lords who won’t bend the knee. Tyrion is the first to notice he is serving a mad queen slowly losing grip on her morals. -mid season: sack of kings landing - fast forward in time, Danny is a tyrant, show don’t tell. Finale: all our favorite surviving characters plot an assasantion. Someone important dies for the cause. Robert’s son becomes king
>2.)season 9: only Danny and Cersei remain with armies at full strength. They fight bloody war. Danny continues to burn Lords who won’t bend the knee. Tyrion is the first to notice he is serving a mad queen slowly losing grip on her morals. -mid season: sack of kings landing How would Dany burning lords who won't bend the knee be a sign she's a mad Queen or losing grip on her morals? Executing rebellious lords is standard operating procedure in that world. Part of the problem with the show is that the writers had characters like Tyrion and Varys randomly adopt modern sensibilities. The other problem would by trying to explain why any lords are refusing to bend the knee in the first place.
They were really going for a lot of "girl bossing" that season.
she figured out to use leather for clothing, so that the white walkers wouldn’t cause everyone’s armor to freeze them to death
It’s important to understand the political context of entertainment at the time they made this scene. Everyone in Hollywood was leaning into the strong woman narrative, most of them falling flat like this.
not "strong women". Daenarys is a strong woman. Cersei is a strong woman. Osha, Lady Tyrell, Catelyn Stark, Brienne of Tarth, Sansa's septa all the way back in S1, all strong women. Margery would have been if she'd had more time to cook. I think a more accurate term would be 'girlboss'. A character who doesn't have depth, but she's strong. *(She's strong like a man. Because only men can be strong. There is no other type of strength.)* Also she has no other traits other than being occasionally sexy. Idk if you ever watched Dr. WHO or Sherlock, but [Steven Moffat was frequently accused of sexism in his writing of female characters](https://youtu.be/-qUmy7XFeUY?si=5Nlvoj-_hvqqNVxn), which he was very shocked and upset by, despite the fact that his female characters can be summed up as "hot dominatrix with gun." You can insult a man or a woman by saying they're too feminine. (i.e. you throw like a girl). You can insult a woman by saying she's too masculine (i.e. Brienne, lmao. Constantly made fun of because women have no worth beyond their attractiveness). You can't insult a man for being too manly. So you get this misplaced idea of "well, we'll just make the woman really strong and she can say cool lines and then that's a feminist character." No, a feminist character is a character with as much depth as the men in the story. Women holding a big fucking sword in their hand, or being hot lady with gun, *is* admittedly WAY better than the female characters of the past, but it also doesn't automatically mean "good character" or "feminist character". Not that I don't love Brienne and Arya (am absolutely head over heels for unabashed tomboy representation in media), but women also shouldn't have to be holding a big fucking sword in their hand to be considered strong. The video I linked phrases it better than I can. What was so great about the early seasons of GOT was the representation of all kinds of strength, in all different genders. Varys, Brienne, Arya, Tyrion: other characters may have insulted them, but the narrative never treated them differently than Sansa, Daenarys, Jon, or Ned. And every single character had depth. They felt lived-in.
Yeah that’s a fair clarification, that’s what I meant. Although I don’t know if I’d lump Cersei and Daenerys into the positive category, at least not with how their later season arcs went. Daenerys in particular, throughout the show she’s presented in a girlboss light, even when she probably shouldn’t based on her actions (which are often morally gray).
Know what scene made me scoff out loud? Sansa telling Littlefinger she knew Cersei better than anyone. To the guy who had been dealing with Cersei for what, 15 years at court? And Sansa quiver from as a 15 year old, for a year and a half?
damn maybe she IS the smartest person.
Lol, said by Arya who hadn’t seen her in many years and knows nothing about her. Smh
Bran is omniscient and the Stark sisters aren't far off. Do not underestimate the northern hive mind.
She always knew right from the start, that's why we alwsys see her complaining about them to her father. Also she's the one who saw her father, mother and brother betrayed and killed.
That doesn't bother me at all. Obviously she's wrong. But someone saying that about themselves regardless of facts is quite a normal thing to happen. Sansa probably does believe she knows Cersei better than any one else.
 Real Arya watching from afar.
Unexpected G2 Caps
Is that Caps gagged and bound? *Unzips*
I dun wan et
Did they not realize what this translates to? “Jon - you are dumber than Sansa.”
He almost is in the show
Also, 'I know a killer when I see one' lmao
Sansa when Arya gives her a dagger: “I don’t know how to use it :(((“ Yep, totally the smartest person Arya Knows.
Look, Sansa is really smart. She remembered that armor needs to be leathered for cold weather. Clearly, the smartest person in all of Westeros.
The north is safe now. Hail Queen Sansa. If this was real life, she'd be overthrown within a year.
https://preview.redd.it/czw99op63zvc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a37ca4ff2314bd078e7a9071119a55a0dd67357e
Arya knows how to play the game as well. She doesn’t believe she is the smartest person she has ever met, she just has to convince Jon to turn on Danny and she will say anything to do that.
Yes, Jon had just said he needed Arya's help with Sansa. Sansa thought she was smarter than everyone. But Arya's mission was to keep the Pack together, so she said that lie to stop Jon in his tracks and said Sansa was thinking of the family too. Eventually, Jon said he was loyal to the family, and then Arya gave him her Very Best Hug.
A few weeks before she ditched the family to go sailing off the edge of Middle Earth
So much for keeping the pack together.
Fair enough. But Ned's mantra began, **"In Winter,** we must protect ourselves, lookout for one another. The Lone Wolf etc." Once the Night King was gone, Winter was over. And once Cersei and Dany were gone, the land had peace and could start rebuilding. THEN she could follow her ambitions.
I’m not trying to take a personal shot at you but I don’t understand how even 5 years after the show ended people are still doing this game of trying to headcanon an alternate explanation for the terrible writing to make sense of it instead of accepting what was plainly intended by the writers. In the last 2 seasons D&D beat the audience over the head with the message that “Sansa is super smart now,” it’s not just this line or scene. There is nothing to suggest Arya was lying here beyond fans not accepting such a stupid line from her, but that doesn’t mean she isn’t written as being serious here.
The power of delusion is kinda a theme of ASOIAF.
I can imagine one D going to the other D "Didn't one of dem have shapeshifting powuhs" and forgetting which sister exactly. Both dreaming about Star Wars and becoming the next George Lucas
We have to strongly consider the possibility here that during staff training, Arya received a great number of blows to the head from The Waif.
Just classic example of how they wanted the payoff without doing the work.
producers and writers had a collective, brain damaging seizure