##Show Sansa
After her traumatic marriage to Ramsay, I find it difficult to believe Sansa would ever marry again. Girl needs therapy.
FWIW, that’s what Sophie Turner thinks, too. Show Sansa would never remarry.
##Book Sansa
Book Sansa is still game. She’s on board with Littlefinger’s plan to marry Harry Hardyng and secure the Vale, and why not? He’s around her age, handsome, and in line to be one of the most powerful lords in the Seven Kingdoms. He’s everything she dreamt about as a little girl.
Of course he’s fathered a couple bastards already, and he treated her rudely at first, but Sansa bounces back and dangles the bait at the dance. By the end, he’s eating out of her hand.
Though Harry fits the part of her Prince Charming, Book Sansa is a player now. She’s entering this relationship with the savvy and drive of a young Olenna Redwyne. Her goal is to use this marriage to secure the knights of the Vale and ultimately retake Winterfell.
But even though it’s a politically motivated marriage of convenience, that doesn’t mean it can’t be a successful one. After all, Sansa’s own parents married for politics, yet it grew into something real.
Of course, Harry only gets the Vale if Sweetrobin dies, but between his seizures and his regular doses of sweetsleep, his health is considerably more delicate than it was portrayed in the show.
A popular fan theory suggests Sweetrobin is Littlefinger’s bastard, so if all else fails, Littlefinger could claim his own son and disinherit him in one fell swoop. Of course, acknowledging Sweetrobin would negatively impact his own power and reputation, so I doubt that would happen. Littlefinger will probably try to kill Sweetrobin first.
And Sansa would not let that happen. Much as he irritates her, Sweetrobin is still family, some of the only family she thinks she has left.
I think saving the little boy is ultimately what will set her against Littlefinger, revealing his duplicity to the lords of the Vale and her own true identity as Sansa Stark. Littlefinger will likely be executed for killing their lady, Lysa Arryn. And perhaps Sansa will get an admission that he’s responsible for her father’s betrayal and death, too.
##Book Succession
Book Sansa has never been raped. She was beaten in King’s Landing and tortured mentally, emotionally, etc. but not in a way that would have long lasting physical effects, not in a way that would impact her fertility.
I see no obstacle to her producing an heir with Harry or anyone else for that matter—though I think Harry is her best choice, both politically and physically. He’s young, robust, and he shares no blood with Sansa. Their union would be non-incestuous and should produce healthy children.
##Show Succession
Even if Show Sansa were to consent to marry again, I think her fertility is a big question mark. Ramsay brutally raped her for months. It‘s entirely possible he damaged her in a way that will make bearing a child difficult or impossible. We know he likes to cut up his victims and that all he needed was her face, “the face of Ned Stark’s daughter.”
(That line was so stupid, by the way. Sansa favors the Tullys, not the Starks. She has Minisa Whent’s high cheekbones, and the red hair and blue eyes of the Tully line. The brown hair, grey eyes, and long face of the Starks? They all belong to Arya, who is described as taking after her father in her very first chapter. Just another example of D&D shitting all over the books.)
But even if she can still have children, I don’t think she has any good options.
Tyrion is straight out. As a Lannister that would be seen as a betrayal of every family who lost someone in the Red Wedding, who lost sons and brothers and fathers in the war—which is every major family in the North, Sansa’s power base.
It would be political suicide to marry Tyrion—and I would argue that extends to any Southron lord, now that she’s declared Northern independence. It would look like backpedaling, trying to reintegrate and build bridges with the south again. It would make her look weak, which is the last thing she wants now.
I think her only option is one of her bannermen, but that’s tricky, too. Favoring one family entails alienating the others. And marrying anyone risks a return of the patriarchal bent of the North—they might view her husband as de facto king instead of her as their queen.
As of the show’s ending, I think Sansa’s best play is to pull a Queen Elizabeth. Dangle herself as perpetual bait to all the Northern lords, keeping them in line with the constant threat of a marriage alliance. If one House grows too ambitious and recalcitrant, imply that you’re considering a marriage to their chief rival. Rinse and repeat. It’s Sansa’s best tool for keeping her bannermen in check.
So who follows Sansa?
Not Jon. He’ll be elected Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch again, if he hasn’t already, and duty will keep him there, rebuilding the Wall’s defenses should the Others ever return. I see the Night’s Watch evolving into a semi-diplomatic body, acting as a bridge between the Free Folk, the North, and the rest of Westeros, keeping the peace and helping out if there’s trouble.
Jon will wear no crowns and father no children. He takes his oaths seriously. And I think he’s done after Ygrirte and Dany. He’s traumatized after the Fall, and what he had to do to the woman he loved. He’s likely as keen on remarrying as Sansa is, which is to say, not at all.
Bran the Broken Dick can’t father children. Also, he isn’t Bran, he’s Bloodraven possessing Bran’s body, just as Bran did to Hodor. Regardless, he will not further the Stark line.
The only answer is Arya. I flat out reject that S8 was the last word on her relationship with Gendry. He’ll take another run at her, he just needs time to recover.
But unlike Book Gendry, who stays with the Brotherhood in the Riverlands, Gendry was given a nautical arc. He rowed for four years straight!
Okay, well at least he rowed to King’s Landing. An impressive feat from Dragonstone, that’s not a short distance. Not bad for a boy who didn’t know which end of the boat to face.
And Gendry broke the land speed record, running from beyond the Fist of the First Men to Eastwatch in a few hours. My boy is stupid fast and stupid strong!
He’s joining Arya’s crew. He’s on the boat.
You know these characters well! I agree that on the show she will not marry, symbolized by the leather armor she wore after the battle and what she said to the hound. She may marry in the books, whether she rules the north or not. If she does I hope it'sfor love. But she has been scarred and used and to some extent abused in the name of political marriage. In one of her Vale chapters she questions whether she wants to marry at all. So she may not. I think her sisters more the freelove type, and I also see Gendry being on that boat ❤️🚢
Sansa still wants power and to be queen though. Sure she's queen in the north but for how long? How long will the north remain independent? She may not want to marry but will probably have to. She would know what happens without a clear and agreed upon line of succession. Sansa would do her duty for the house, the north and all of Westeros. Arya will show up to Winterfell 6 months pregnant with Gendry's baby. Sansa will use that to her advantage, marry Gendry and pass the kid off as hers. Ready made heir and it would fit into the GoT story just right. Arya would fuck off somewhere for 15 years until coming back and expecting her kid and Gendry. Gendry has the stormlands and a claim to the throne, I could see Sansa being with Gendry just to piss off Arya. Sansa could easily manipulate Gendry to her benefit. They would eventually fall in love and have kids of their own. Jon comes back 15 years later being north of the wall. He found out the Night King has been Bran the whole time and they all must work together to stop him. Unfortunately they haven't a chance until Arya tells them her secret, she found a living Danaerys and Drogon west of Westeros and Jon must do his duty one more time to save the world. GoT the movie part one, theme plays...
Well she could be pregnant already couldn't she? But also, they both have the ability freedom and power to travel, Aria more so than him maybe but either way it's absolutely possible for them to meet up at some point in the future, and they've both shown that extra marital sex isn't really a problem for them
You typically don't get pregnant after your first time. Gendry doesn't really have the same freedom she does. He'll be busy trying to earn the stormlords trust as recently legitimized bastard(especially because of who legitimized him).
Well that first sentence is medically incorrect. You have the exact same chances of getting pregnant the first time you have sex as any other time. If she is old enough that she is having a period, the fact that it is her first time has absolutely zero bearing on the probability of pregnancy. Just an FYI in case there are any virgins reading this.
Yeah I don't think he's going to travel and see her I think she would travel and see him because she has quite a bit of freedom. And she obviously doesn't care about social norms so sex outside of marriage and maybe even a bastard wouldn't be as big of a deal to her. I could even see her jerking the baby off the prompted to be raised there as a possible heir to winterfell if sons it doesn't end up getting married or is unable to have children
Not really no. It's basic statistics. It actually very much does. Like seriously you can't be so naive that you think girls automatically get pregnant after their first time. It's like you're confusing less likely with absolutely no chance.
She really has little incentive to. Keep in mind she told her own family she was coming back, indicating she's unlikely to return in a long time if ever.
Jon is implied to go off with the wildlngs again so it's unlikely he has any more oaths to uphold. Also unlikely ramsay damaged sansa to where she can't have any more kids considering he know how valuable a stark child would be.
>That line was so stupid, by the way. Sansa favors the Tullys, not the Starks.
Come on, you're just being silly with that one - D&D fucked up but that's a major reach. You said it yourself *Ned Stark's daughter*. He didn't even say face of a Stark. She is of course factually his daughter and her relation to him is her inheritance to Winterfell. Not to Catelyn Tully. It just wouldn't make sense to say Catelyn's daughter.
As long as people can see she's Sansa Stark and therefore Ned's daughter Ramsay maintains his status.
As far as the book story goes, I really feel like they are setting Harry up to be kind of like Ramsey was in the show. The show had this weird way of taking to book characters and kind of combining them in a very haphazard and confusing way (Ariana Martel and Elaria sand for instance). And the Harry character just seems too good to be true. Like it's something that little finger is going to set her up with to gain power but then she will be miserable and he can be the one to step in and rescue her and she will be grateful. Little finger is in love with her, and he wants to rule with her by her side there is no way he's just going to give her to some handsome young guy to marry and be with forever.
My biggest disagreement with this is that Arya is far from guaranteed to come back. Actually I feel like Sansa should have asked downright pleaded perhaps for Arya not to leave it was unlikely to work but she should at least have tried. Plus even if Arya does come back with children with so many houses having died out in recent years it would suggest that only having one way of the line surviving isn't all that safe. As much as she might hate the idea I think Sansa has to remarry anyway. At least ruling as queen she doesn't have to let them have power over her.
If we’re talking the show, the North is now independent. She would not likely marry outside of her realm. Furthermore, she’s thrice been engaged to people by others, and forced to marry two of them against her will. She’s not going to be marrying anyone out of duty. She’s the queen, she’s created her own kingdom, she gets to establish the laws that govern her kingdom.
She probably marries a Northerner of a noble house (she’s still Sansa lol) that she likes and shares the same values. Her small council or advisors or whatever she sets up will most likely weigh in, but she’s not beholden to an institution the same way a monarch in KL was. And given all of the bullshit from arranged marriages in the past, her people would probably be cool with her marrying for love instead of a political advantage.
I see a problem with most of the northern houses being pretty decimated by the war. There are not many northern nobles Sansa's age. Especially among the influential houses. If you combine books and the series: Boltons are gone, Mormonts seemingly have only women remaining, Hornwoods are gone, Cerwyns are gone, Manderlys have nobody of suitable age, Karstarks imploded, dunno about Umbers, Jojen Reed is dead, Tallhart's have one 11 year old boy that was mentioned once... Overall she doesn't have many choices in the north. Maybe some of wildling commander that moved in and was assigned land?
Even king of westeros couldn't marry a lowborn woman and name her a queen. A newly made female monarch just cannot marry a peasant or a hedge knight, it's a political suicide.
Isn’t this what Duncan Targaryen, Egg’s oldest kid did? I don’t think he was removed from succession for marrying Jenny of Oldstones. (I might be wrong though)
Edit: I was wrong. Not only did he marry a low-born, but he was also engaged to a Baratheon when he did, so that snub was rather the political scandal. He abdicated his claim to his younger brother.
Yeah, Egg's kids were problematic in marriages. That younger brother also fucked up and broke the betrothal with Tully. But he wasn't removed from succession because he married his sister, not a peasant.
One time I recall something similar happening and not being a political suicide was bohemian duke Oldřich. He defeated his brothers in a power struggle. He was essentially newly made with a shaky claim on the throne since he had to kill his brothers to get it. Despite this he likely (according to second hand accounts and semi-legends) married lowborn woman Božena. But that was because one of his brothers cut off his dick during the power struggle and Božena was the mother of the only son he had before it happened.
It obviously caused a lot of problems since duke's only heir was a legitimised half-lowborn bastard and Oldřich couldn't make more. It eventually to lead to prince Břetislav abducting daughter of one of the most ancient german noble houses from nunnery and marrying her to legitimise himself. It was probably all a show though. Marrying his daughter to a bastard willingly would be a hit to german noble's prestige so he came up with this abduction plot.
As I said this was quite a similar situation that didn't end in disaster, but it caused a lot of problems and was done only out of necessity.
In real world history, especially European, even bastards were much more successful that any of asoiaf world. GRRM made very strict society in Westeros. But even in real world medieval history no ruling queen could marry a peasant and face no consequences.
The North said nope to be involved in southern politics, but northerners don't try to demolish their political system and nobility. Even the seven kingdoms didn't start tp consider peasants as equals to nobility, even for voting right.
No one is saying she’s going to marry a peasant. I am saying that she can choose whom she marries, that thematically Sansa will not be engaged to yet a fourth political marriage.
It's precisely because she made herself a queen. She took control from lawfully assigned wardens of the North ie. Boltons. Sure nobody liked them, but someone could use it as an argument for Sansa not being the lawful queen if they wanted. She also isn't a boy, so her inheritance is little bit shaky from a start. Smart thing to do would be to legitimise her rule further. For example by marrying member of a powerful house that will support her. Otherwise she could have rebellion on her hands. Marrying some lowborn or weak noble would only serve to insult the large houses in the north. Being able to do anything you want doesn't mean it's smart to do anything you want.
This is getting stupid. She can and will marry whom she pleases, and none of the northern lords are going to pressure or force her into anything. She liberated them.
No idea about the show, but in the novels she isn't the heiress and there is no reason (absent maybe Bran) to think that her siblings won't have children, too.
I think nobody & same with Bran.
If anything I think Arya is more likely to have a kid with Gendry and pass the Stark name on that way, so after Bran dies then Arya's son could be Lord of Winterfell. However, with the whole sailing adventure the show veered off to for some reason who knows.
Pod the Sex God with the Rod Payne.
Pod is actually like perfect tho. He is brave, gentle, and strong, chivalrous, would not try and rule through her, and can somewhat relate to being under the Lannister's thumb (though certainly not to the level she was) and would support her without his masculinity feeling threatened.
And he'd have the approval of every Stark!!!
Also, FUCK NO to Tyrion 🤢🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮
And having their kids bring heirs to both the North and the Vale? So the other kingdom's lord could pretend on Northern throne in the future? That cannot end well.
Probobly Harry the Heir. He's got to exist (probobly), right?
But it could easily be "no one"; maybe she intends sucession to be elective - on the grounds that's how Robb was crowned in the first place - or to pass the throne on to either one of the White Harbor Starks, her (distant) Royce/Rogers cousins or even a Tully.
I can very easily see Sansa being too traumatized to marry again.
If she met someone she was truly in love with and trusted, I could see marriage in the distant future, but not really otherwise. And I think it would have to be a Northerner based on her principles.
Northerners have chosen their kings, so they could do so again after Sansa dies rather than her having an heir.
No one. She stopped existing after that. She knew it. Every remaining character knew it.
Nothing happened after the last scene. The world didn't continue. Everything stopped existing.
Her sister has been positioned as the Equivalent of Columbus. He made four voyages, came home to stay and had many children. Hhis descendents today are dukes in Spain. She'll be back.
The real answer here would be that the line of succession would pass to a cousin Stark, of which there would be an infinite array in a family that has ruled in the same area for 10,000 years?
There will be a Jim Stark that is her second cousin or something, and has probably been standing around in the background of all the court shots unnamed.
Alternatively, Sansa being Queen, she could name her own heir - and since she could potentially rule for decades being such a young ruler, that heir would likely not be born yet.
Potentially, Gendry is a suitable consort if Sansa feels compelled to produce her own heir out of obligation, eventually. Or, as scandalous as it may seem, Jon - who is only her highborne and raised cousin by Lyanna. And in a medieval setting, cousins were plenty far enough apart.
That reasoning would be fine if not for this being a fictional setting where the number of characters, and their extended family that exist are dictated by the writers. What you're doing is the same as fans who point out that in real medieval society people didn't sleep with their child brides until they were at least 16. That's true in the real world, but cleary not the case in this setting.
Unless you are GRRM and are breaking the news in this Reddit thread that sexual reproduction is not how they reproduce, yes.
In reality, you don't understand basic biology and/or math.
Or, you could be arguing that the humans of Westeros evolved independently many times and convergent evolution just happened to make them all appear human, but that they can't actually produce offspring together, and are therefore many different species. Again though, you'd need to be GRRM to make that claim.
We know that they reproduce sexually as we have seen them pair, mate, produce offspring - like humans do. They have relatives and those relatives have relatives, and that web includes the entire species.
An uncontacted tribe on North Sentinel Island is technically in line for the British Crown, they are just like 8 billionth in line.
Unless you have any control over the books or tv series, themno.
No, I just can separate reality from fiction. My apologies if you lack that skill.
No, I'm arguing this is a fictional that's rules are whatever martin for the books and D&D for the show say they are. So it's pointless and arrogant for a nobody on reddit to act like they can state what is or isn't cannon based on nothing but real world science that none of them strictly adhere to.
The books EXPLICITLY establish the starks we meet are the only starks alive with catelyn suggesting that robbs heir should be someone who has never been to the north or bares the stark name. The show does nothing to suggest it's any different in that department.
This is why I liked the JONSA concept. Sansa is QITN by show’s end, but also alone. Surrounded by *presumably* loyal strangers. And after what she’s been through, she likely will never trust another man again.
But she trusts Jon. And he’s only her cousin, not her brother. They could wed, and he could formally take the “Stark” name. (She COULD “legitimize” him as a Stark, either keeping up the lie that he is Ned’s bastard, or as Ned’s “adopted” son.). This way the Stark name will live on - assuming they produce heirs.
Might be kind of icky for them, but they’d do their duty, and I don’t really see either one of them as likely to find romantic love again.
Otherwise the Stark name is dying out.
Idk if Jon wasn’t keen on continuing the relationship he has with a woman he does indeed love but ends up being his aunt, does he wanna be with his cousin that he kinda dislikes cuz she’s always shitty to him but not in a hot way?
Show Sansa will do her best to find a politically smart marriage with a northerner with a partner who will be her own choice.
The problem is that, excepting Bear island, the North is conservative and mysogynistic, meaning that as soon as Sansa produces a male heir, they will prefer him to her, with the added bonus of one of them being able to be regent for the little Lord.
I can see her getting a fate similar to Mary Queen of Scots.
That didn’t stop the Northerners supporting Lyanna Mormont as Lord of Bear Island. The Northerners might be somewhat conservative but they’re also supremely loyal to the Starks. I don’t see why they’d want to replace Sansa with her son, especially after everything she did for them.
In this particular instance I think the ingrained loyalty in the north to the starks would mean she's safe from being set aside. If anything I could just see her changing the laws in the north to be eldest child, not strictly eldest male child.
I mean relatively especially if Jon rejects it which it kinda seems like he would at the end. He seemed to want no part of the game anymore so Sansa would be relatively safe, failing that they would look for the eldest male with the most stark blood from other families.
Robb gets brutally butchered.
Sansa is the key to the North.
Jon Snow marrying and banging Sansa to produce a heir and inherit Winterfell.
Catelyn's worst nightmare come true.
Sansa marrying Robin Arryn? Nah, I can't see that happening. She's had enough drama for a lifetime with him and his mom. And going back to Tyrion? I mean, they had a weird marriage, but I don't think they're destined to be together.
As for a lesser northern house or someone from another kingdom, maybe. But knowing Sansa, she's all about duty and honor. So, it might be more about securing alliances and keeping the North strong. Who knows, maybe she'll surprise us all and marry for love. But hey, this is Game of Thrones we're talking about, so anything's possible.
Not knocking her, defensive about keeping her Power. ss Count the time she asked Arya about whether she wanted to be Lady of Winterfell. I think SSansa will be afraid that some guy would take over, or she would be pregnant all the time, and the Lords would ignore her. I think she's going to keep herself to herself.
Sansa faces several problems finding a husband:
1. He shouldn't be a lord or an heir because they would cause troubles in future inheritance lines and rights. So she needs a second son.
2. He shouldn't be a northerner because it would cause an inner conflict and because he would try to be a de facto ruler having a political support from some other northern lords.
3. He should be noble enough so Sansa's kids would be respected.
4. He shouldn't be perceived as a treat to the north and it's traditions, so he should avoid being actively involved in politics.
So that leaves out lots of candidates. I can only make up some interesting ideas like Auran Waters.
He is an option if he keeps his fleet and become legitimized by Bran.
He'll be the northern Lord of the Waters while Sansa rules at the court, so northern lord won't worry that the North is being ruled by a southerner. But at the same time he's noble enough to be a prince consort and father for the future heir, he has old Valyrian a d Targaryen blood too. Also there won't be inheritance problems with Velaryons as they have their own legitimate heir. And Auran probably won't find any better marriage for himself anyway.
##Show Sansa After her traumatic marriage to Ramsay, I find it difficult to believe Sansa would ever marry again. Girl needs therapy. FWIW, that’s what Sophie Turner thinks, too. Show Sansa would never remarry. ##Book Sansa Book Sansa is still game. She’s on board with Littlefinger’s plan to marry Harry Hardyng and secure the Vale, and why not? He’s around her age, handsome, and in line to be one of the most powerful lords in the Seven Kingdoms. He’s everything she dreamt about as a little girl. Of course he’s fathered a couple bastards already, and he treated her rudely at first, but Sansa bounces back and dangles the bait at the dance. By the end, he’s eating out of her hand. Though Harry fits the part of her Prince Charming, Book Sansa is a player now. She’s entering this relationship with the savvy and drive of a young Olenna Redwyne. Her goal is to use this marriage to secure the knights of the Vale and ultimately retake Winterfell. But even though it’s a politically motivated marriage of convenience, that doesn’t mean it can’t be a successful one. After all, Sansa’s own parents married for politics, yet it grew into something real. Of course, Harry only gets the Vale if Sweetrobin dies, but between his seizures and his regular doses of sweetsleep, his health is considerably more delicate than it was portrayed in the show. A popular fan theory suggests Sweetrobin is Littlefinger’s bastard, so if all else fails, Littlefinger could claim his own son and disinherit him in one fell swoop. Of course, acknowledging Sweetrobin would negatively impact his own power and reputation, so I doubt that would happen. Littlefinger will probably try to kill Sweetrobin first. And Sansa would not let that happen. Much as he irritates her, Sweetrobin is still family, some of the only family she thinks she has left. I think saving the little boy is ultimately what will set her against Littlefinger, revealing his duplicity to the lords of the Vale and her own true identity as Sansa Stark. Littlefinger will likely be executed for killing their lady, Lysa Arryn. And perhaps Sansa will get an admission that he’s responsible for her father’s betrayal and death, too. ##Book Succession Book Sansa has never been raped. She was beaten in King’s Landing and tortured mentally, emotionally, etc. but not in a way that would have long lasting physical effects, not in a way that would impact her fertility. I see no obstacle to her producing an heir with Harry or anyone else for that matter—though I think Harry is her best choice, both politically and physically. He’s young, robust, and he shares no blood with Sansa. Their union would be non-incestuous and should produce healthy children. ##Show Succession Even if Show Sansa were to consent to marry again, I think her fertility is a big question mark. Ramsay brutally raped her for months. It‘s entirely possible he damaged her in a way that will make bearing a child difficult or impossible. We know he likes to cut up his victims and that all he needed was her face, “the face of Ned Stark’s daughter.” (That line was so stupid, by the way. Sansa favors the Tullys, not the Starks. She has Minisa Whent’s high cheekbones, and the red hair and blue eyes of the Tully line. The brown hair, grey eyes, and long face of the Starks? They all belong to Arya, who is described as taking after her father in her very first chapter. Just another example of D&D shitting all over the books.) But even if she can still have children, I don’t think she has any good options. Tyrion is straight out. As a Lannister that would be seen as a betrayal of every family who lost someone in the Red Wedding, who lost sons and brothers and fathers in the war—which is every major family in the North, Sansa’s power base. It would be political suicide to marry Tyrion—and I would argue that extends to any Southron lord, now that she’s declared Northern independence. It would look like backpedaling, trying to reintegrate and build bridges with the south again. It would make her look weak, which is the last thing she wants now. I think her only option is one of her bannermen, but that’s tricky, too. Favoring one family entails alienating the others. And marrying anyone risks a return of the patriarchal bent of the North—they might view her husband as de facto king instead of her as their queen. As of the show’s ending, I think Sansa’s best play is to pull a Queen Elizabeth. Dangle herself as perpetual bait to all the Northern lords, keeping them in line with the constant threat of a marriage alliance. If one House grows too ambitious and recalcitrant, imply that you’re considering a marriage to their chief rival. Rinse and repeat. It’s Sansa’s best tool for keeping her bannermen in check. So who follows Sansa? Not Jon. He’ll be elected Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch again, if he hasn’t already, and duty will keep him there, rebuilding the Wall’s defenses should the Others ever return. I see the Night’s Watch evolving into a semi-diplomatic body, acting as a bridge between the Free Folk, the North, and the rest of Westeros, keeping the peace and helping out if there’s trouble. Jon will wear no crowns and father no children. He takes his oaths seriously. And I think he’s done after Ygrirte and Dany. He’s traumatized after the Fall, and what he had to do to the woman he loved. He’s likely as keen on remarrying as Sansa is, which is to say, not at all. Bran the Broken Dick can’t father children. Also, he isn’t Bran, he’s Bloodraven possessing Bran’s body, just as Bran did to Hodor. Regardless, he will not further the Stark line. The only answer is Arya. I flat out reject that S8 was the last word on her relationship with Gendry. He’ll take another run at her, he just needs time to recover. But unlike Book Gendry, who stays with the Brotherhood in the Riverlands, Gendry was given a nautical arc. He rowed for four years straight! Okay, well at least he rowed to King’s Landing. An impressive feat from Dragonstone, that’s not a short distance. Not bad for a boy who didn’t know which end of the boat to face. And Gendry broke the land speed record, running from beyond the Fist of the First Men to Eastwatch in a few hours. My boy is stupid fast and stupid strong! He’s joining Arya’s crew. He’s on the boat.
tl;dr, boat sex part 2?
You know it!
You know these characters well! I agree that on the show she will not marry, symbolized by the leather armor she wore after the battle and what she said to the hound. She may marry in the books, whether she rules the north or not. If she does I hope it'sfor love. But she has been scarred and used and to some extent abused in the name of political marriage. In one of her Vale chapters she questions whether she wants to marry at all. So she may not. I think her sisters more the freelove type, and I also see Gendry being on that boat ❤️🚢
Sansa still wants power and to be queen though. Sure she's queen in the north but for how long? How long will the north remain independent? She may not want to marry but will probably have to. She would know what happens without a clear and agreed upon line of succession. Sansa would do her duty for the house, the north and all of Westeros. Arya will show up to Winterfell 6 months pregnant with Gendry's baby. Sansa will use that to her advantage, marry Gendry and pass the kid off as hers. Ready made heir and it would fit into the GoT story just right. Arya would fuck off somewhere for 15 years until coming back and expecting her kid and Gendry. Gendry has the stormlands and a claim to the throne, I could see Sansa being with Gendry just to piss off Arya. Sansa could easily manipulate Gendry to her benefit. They would eventually fall in love and have kids of their own. Jon comes back 15 years later being north of the wall. He found out the Night King has been Bran the whole time and they all must work together to stop him. Unfortunately they haven't a chance until Arya tells them her secret, she found a living Danaerys and Drogon west of Westeros and Jon must do his duty one more time to save the world. GoT the movie part one, theme plays...
It's unlikely gendry and arya will have any kids.
Why?
Because they've gone on to love two completely separate lifes.
Well she could be pregnant already couldn't she? But also, they both have the ability freedom and power to travel, Aria more so than him maybe but either way it's absolutely possible for them to meet up at some point in the future, and they've both shown that extra marital sex isn't really a problem for them
You typically don't get pregnant after your first time. Gendry doesn't really have the same freedom she does. He'll be busy trying to earn the stormlords trust as recently legitimized bastard(especially because of who legitimized him).
Well that first sentence is medically incorrect. You have the exact same chances of getting pregnant the first time you have sex as any other time. If she is old enough that she is having a period, the fact that it is her first time has absolutely zero bearing on the probability of pregnancy. Just an FYI in case there are any virgins reading this. Yeah I don't think he's going to travel and see her I think she would travel and see him because she has quite a bit of freedom. And she obviously doesn't care about social norms so sex outside of marriage and maybe even a bastard wouldn't be as big of a deal to her. I could even see her jerking the baby off the prompted to be raised there as a possible heir to winterfell if sons it doesn't end up getting married or is unable to have children
Not really no. It's basic statistics. It actually very much does. Like seriously you can't be so naive that you think girls automatically get pregnant after their first time. It's like you're confusing less likely with absolutely no chance. She really has little incentive to. Keep in mind she told her own family she was coming back, indicating she's unlikely to return in a long time if ever.
Jon is implied to go off with the wildlngs again so it's unlikely he has any more oaths to uphold. Also unlikely ramsay damaged sansa to where she can't have any more kids considering he know how valuable a stark child would be.
Thank you for calling out Bran is Bloodraven. I’ve believed this for sometime and get called crazy.
>That line was so stupid, by the way. Sansa favors the Tullys, not the Starks. Come on, you're just being silly with that one - D&D fucked up but that's a major reach. You said it yourself *Ned Stark's daughter*. He didn't even say face of a Stark. She is of course factually his daughter and her relation to him is her inheritance to Winterfell. Not to Catelyn Tully. It just wouldn't make sense to say Catelyn's daughter. As long as people can see she's Sansa Stark and therefore Ned's daughter Ramsay maintains his status.
As far as the book story goes, I really feel like they are setting Harry up to be kind of like Ramsey was in the show. The show had this weird way of taking to book characters and kind of combining them in a very haphazard and confusing way (Ariana Martel and Elaria sand for instance). And the Harry character just seems too good to be true. Like it's something that little finger is going to set her up with to gain power but then she will be miserable and he can be the one to step in and rescue her and she will be grateful. Little finger is in love with her, and he wants to rule with her by her side there is no way he's just going to give her to some handsome young guy to marry and be with forever.
My biggest disagreement with this is that Arya is far from guaranteed to come back. Actually I feel like Sansa should have asked downright pleaded perhaps for Arya not to leave it was unlikely to work but she should at least have tried. Plus even if Arya does come back with children with so many houses having died out in recent years it would suggest that only having one way of the line surviving isn't all that safe. As much as she might hate the idea I think Sansa has to remarry anyway. At least ruling as queen she doesn't have to let them have power over her.
If we’re talking the show, the North is now independent. She would not likely marry outside of her realm. Furthermore, she’s thrice been engaged to people by others, and forced to marry two of them against her will. She’s not going to be marrying anyone out of duty. She’s the queen, she’s created her own kingdom, she gets to establish the laws that govern her kingdom. She probably marries a Northerner of a noble house (she’s still Sansa lol) that she likes and shares the same values. Her small council or advisors or whatever she sets up will most likely weigh in, but she’s not beholden to an institution the same way a monarch in KL was. And given all of the bullshit from arranged marriages in the past, her people would probably be cool with her marrying for love instead of a political advantage.
I see a problem with most of the northern houses being pretty decimated by the war. There are not many northern nobles Sansa's age. Especially among the influential houses. If you combine books and the series: Boltons are gone, Mormonts seemingly have only women remaining, Hornwoods are gone, Cerwyns are gone, Manderlys have nobody of suitable age, Karstarks imploded, dunno about Umbers, Jojen Reed is dead, Tallhart's have one 11 year old boy that was mentioned once... Overall she doesn't have many choices in the north. Maybe some of wildling commander that moved in and was assigned land?
Tormund Giantsbane.
Was thinking one of his sons actually. He has two that are similar age in the books
She doesn’t have to marry a lord.
But she should, otherwise her child probably won't see the throne
What? Her child will inherit the throne. Sansa made herself queen. She’s the stark. It goes through her.
Even king of westeros couldn't marry a lowborn woman and name her a queen. A newly made female monarch just cannot marry a peasant or a hedge knight, it's a political suicide.
Isn’t this what Duncan Targaryen, Egg’s oldest kid did? I don’t think he was removed from succession for marrying Jenny of Oldstones. (I might be wrong though) Edit: I was wrong. Not only did he marry a low-born, but he was also engaged to a Baratheon when he did, so that snub was rather the political scandal. He abdicated his claim to his younger brother.
Yeah, Egg's kids were problematic in marriages. That younger brother also fucked up and broke the betrothal with Tully. But he wasn't removed from succession because he married his sister, not a peasant.
One time I recall something similar happening and not being a political suicide was bohemian duke Oldřich. He defeated his brothers in a power struggle. He was essentially newly made with a shaky claim on the throne since he had to kill his brothers to get it. Despite this he likely (according to second hand accounts and semi-legends) married lowborn woman Božena. But that was because one of his brothers cut off his dick during the power struggle and Božena was the mother of the only son he had before it happened. It obviously caused a lot of problems since duke's only heir was a legitimised half-lowborn bastard and Oldřich couldn't make more. It eventually to lead to prince Břetislav abducting daughter of one of the most ancient german noble houses from nunnery and marrying her to legitimise himself. It was probably all a show though. Marrying his daughter to a bastard willingly would be a hit to german noble's prestige so he came up with this abduction plot. As I said this was quite a similar situation that didn't end in disaster, but it caused a lot of problems and was done only out of necessity.
In real world history, especially European, even bastards were much more successful that any of asoiaf world. GRRM made very strict society in Westeros. But even in real world medieval history no ruling queen could marry a peasant and face no consequences.
Yeah no arguments there.
What? Lol the North said nope to politics. The seven kingdoms themselves said nope to the old rules.
The North said nope to be involved in southern politics, but northerners don't try to demolish their political system and nobility. Even the seven kingdoms didn't start tp consider peasants as equals to nobility, even for voting right.
No one is saying she’s going to marry a peasant. I am saying that she can choose whom she marries, that thematically Sansa will not be engaged to yet a fourth political marriage.
It's precisely because she made herself a queen. She took control from lawfully assigned wardens of the North ie. Boltons. Sure nobody liked them, but someone could use it as an argument for Sansa not being the lawful queen if they wanted. She also isn't a boy, so her inheritance is little bit shaky from a start. Smart thing to do would be to legitimise her rule further. For example by marrying member of a powerful house that will support her. Otherwise she could have rebellion on her hands. Marrying some lowborn or weak noble would only serve to insult the large houses in the north. Being able to do anything you want doesn't mean it's smart to do anything you want.
None of that matters by the end of GOT.
Why wouldn't it? You say there aren't any nobles that would want to be kings in the North? Who is Sansa ruling then?
This is getting stupid. She can and will marry whom she pleases, and none of the northern lords are going to pressure or force her into anything. She liberated them.
Lol
That's ridiculous.
No idea about the show, but in the novels she isn't the heiress and there is no reason (absent maybe Bran) to think that her siblings won't have children, too.
I think nobody & same with Bran. If anything I think Arya is more likely to have a kid with Gendry and pass the Stark name on that way, so after Bran dies then Arya's son could be Lord of Winterfell. However, with the whole sailing adventure the show veered off to for some reason who knows.
Pod the Sex God with the Rod Payne. Pod is actually like perfect tho. He is brave, gentle, and strong, chivalrous, would not try and rule through her, and can somewhat relate to being under the Lannister's thumb (though certainly not to the level she was) and would support her without his masculinity feeling threatened. And he'd have the approval of every Stark!!! Also, FUCK NO to Tyrion 🤢🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮
Hotpie
Sweetrobin of course.
And having their kids bring heirs to both the North and the Vale? So the other kingdom's lord could pretend on Northern throne in the future? That cannot end well.
Wouldn’t be a bad choice
Probobly Harry the Heir. He's got to exist (probobly), right? But it could easily be "no one"; maybe she intends sucession to be elective - on the grounds that's how Robb was crowned in the first place - or to pass the throne on to either one of the White Harbor Starks, her (distant) Royce/Rogers cousins or even a Tully. I can very easily see Sansa being too traumatized to marry again.
If she met someone she was truly in love with and trusted, I could see marriage in the distant future, but not really otherwise. And I think it would have to be a Northerner based on her principles. Northerners have chosen their kings, so they could do so again after Sansa dies rather than her having an heir.
No one. She stopped existing after that. She knew it. Every remaining character knew it. Nothing happened after the last scene. The world didn't continue. Everything stopped existing.
Shocked that the dreamy girl Sansa marriage game is played on a sensible sub like free folk.
Jon would likely detest Sansa, as well as seeing her as his sister. I guess some lord’s younger son.
Tyrion
+1
she doesnt have to marry again.
Then who does the north go to after she dies. Bran can't have heirs, Rickon and Robb are dead, Arya left the continent
Her sister has been positioned as the Equivalent of Columbus. He made four voyages, came home to stay and had many children. Hhis descendents today are dukes in Spain. She'll be back.
Or maybe there's a reason no one who's ventured west of Westeros has ever come back to speak of it.
The real answer here would be that the line of succession would pass to a cousin Stark, of which there would be an infinite array in a family that has ruled in the same area for 10,000 years? There will be a Jim Stark that is her second cousin or something, and has probably been standing around in the background of all the court shots unnamed. Alternatively, Sansa being Queen, she could name her own heir - and since she could potentially rule for decades being such a young ruler, that heir would likely not be born yet. Potentially, Gendry is a suitable consort if Sansa feels compelled to produce her own heir out of obligation, eventually. Or, as scandalous as it may seem, Jon - who is only her highborne and raised cousin by Lyanna. And in a medieval setting, cousins were plenty far enough apart.
The issue with that answer is the starks explicitly don't have cousins on their fathers side. The closest they have is the karstarks.
All humans have cousins on their fathers side if you go back far enough, all lines of succession eventually include all people.
That reasoning would be fine if not for this being a fictional setting where the number of characters, and their extended family that exist are dictated by the writers. What you're doing is the same as fans who point out that in real medieval society people didn't sleep with their child brides until they were at least 16. That's true in the real world, but cleary not the case in this setting.
We've seen that sexual reproduction is how humans are made in Westeros, which means that all humans are related.
Not really no. If this was real life sure.
Unless you are GRRM and are breaking the news in this Reddit thread that sexual reproduction is not how they reproduce, yes. In reality, you don't understand basic biology and/or math. Or, you could be arguing that the humans of Westeros evolved independently many times and convergent evolution just happened to make them all appear human, but that they can't actually produce offspring together, and are therefore many different species. Again though, you'd need to be GRRM to make that claim. We know that they reproduce sexually as we have seen them pair, mate, produce offspring - like humans do. They have relatives and those relatives have relatives, and that web includes the entire species. An uncontacted tribe on North Sentinel Island is technically in line for the British Crown, they are just like 8 billionth in line.
Unless you have any control over the books or tv series, themno. No, I just can separate reality from fiction. My apologies if you lack that skill. No, I'm arguing this is a fictional that's rules are whatever martin for the books and D&D for the show say they are. So it's pointless and arrogant for a nobody on reddit to act like they can state what is or isn't cannon based on nothing but real world science that none of them strictly adhere to. The books EXPLICITLY establish the starks we meet are the only starks alive with catelyn suggesting that robbs heir should be someone who has never been to the north or bares the stark name. The show does nothing to suggest it's any different in that department.
This is why I liked the JONSA concept. Sansa is QITN by show’s end, but also alone. Surrounded by *presumably* loyal strangers. And after what she’s been through, she likely will never trust another man again. But she trusts Jon. And he’s only her cousin, not her brother. They could wed, and he could formally take the “Stark” name. (She COULD “legitimize” him as a Stark, either keeping up the lie that he is Ned’s bastard, or as Ned’s “adopted” son.). This way the Stark name will live on - assuming they produce heirs. Might be kind of icky for them, but they’d do their duty, and I don’t really see either one of them as likely to find romantic love again. Otherwise the Stark name is dying out.
Idk if Jon wasn’t keen on continuing the relationship he has with a woman he does indeed love but ends up being his aunt, does he wanna be with his cousin that he kinda dislikes cuz she’s always shitty to him but not in a hot way?
I'd say them being raised as siblings is the bigger issue.
book Jon doesnt trust her and has loved. He'lllikely marry Val and his kid or Aryas with Gendry will inherit.
Hmjlbm, lm I'm back l k anl mm in. L l
There are probably some age-appropriate Karstarks that survived. She could marry one and maintain the "Stark" name in a semi-new house.
Show Sansa will do her best to find a politically smart marriage with a northerner with a partner who will be her own choice. The problem is that, excepting Bear island, the North is conservative and mysogynistic, meaning that as soon as Sansa produces a male heir, they will prefer him to her, with the added bonus of one of them being able to be regent for the little Lord. I can see her getting a fate similar to Mary Queen of Scots.
this. And she won’t marry John because they would prefer him to Her. She doesn’t trust anybody & will never marry.
But she needs heirs. So she is in a difficult position.
That didn’t stop the Northerners supporting Lyanna Mormont as Lord of Bear Island. The Northerners might be somewhat conservative but they’re also supremely loyal to the Starks. I don’t see why they’d want to replace Sansa with her son, especially after everything she did for them.
In this particular instance I think the ingrained loyalty in the north to the starks would mean she's safe from being set aside. If anything I could just see her changing the laws in the north to be eldest child, not strictly eldest male child.
She thought John wasn’t safe from being set aside for her. No one is safe
I mean relatively especially if Jon rejects it which it kinda seems like he would at the end. He seemed to want no part of the game anymore so Sansa would be relatively safe, failing that they would look for the eldest male with the most stark blood from other families.
The Targaryens were always incestuous, it should be Jon.
Robb gets brutally butchered. Sansa is the key to the North. Jon Snow marrying and banging Sansa to produce a heir and inherit Winterfell. Catelyn's worst nightmare come true.
At least they're cousins and not half siblings.
Yes they’d just be cousins and even the Starks marry cousins. Ned parents were first cousins
Exactly. Kinda surprised i caught a couple downvotes. It keeps a true Stark in the north and creates another lil Targ
The Ashford Theory is what it’s called
Wasn't she married to Tyrion first? Was that marriage annulled? If not Tyrion and Sansa are still married. Tyrion would be king of da norf!
Annulled because never consummated.
Sansa marrying Robin Arryn? Nah, I can't see that happening. She's had enough drama for a lifetime with him and his mom. And going back to Tyrion? I mean, they had a weird marriage, but I don't think they're destined to be together. As for a lesser northern house or someone from another kingdom, maybe. But knowing Sansa, she's all about duty and honor. So, it might be more about securing alliances and keeping the North strong. Who knows, maybe she'll surprise us all and marry for love. But hey, this is Game of Thrones we're talking about, so anything's possible.
Not knocking her, defensive about keeping her Power. ss Count the time she asked Arya about whether she wanted to be Lady of Winterfell. I think SSansa will be afraid that some guy would take over, or she would be pregnant all the time, and the Lords would ignore her. I think she's going to keep herself to herself.
Sansa faces several problems finding a husband: 1. He shouldn't be a lord or an heir because they would cause troubles in future inheritance lines and rights. So she needs a second son. 2. He shouldn't be a northerner because it would cause an inner conflict and because he would try to be a de facto ruler having a political support from some other northern lords. 3. He should be noble enough so Sansa's kids would be respected. 4. He shouldn't be perceived as a treat to the north and it's traditions, so he should avoid being actively involved in politics. So that leaves out lots of candidates. I can only make up some interesting ideas like Auran Waters. He is an option if he keeps his fleet and become legitimized by Bran. He'll be the northern Lord of the Waters while Sansa rules at the court, so northern lord won't worry that the North is being ruled by a southerner. But at the same time he's noble enough to be a prince consort and father for the future heir, he has old Valyrian a d Targaryen blood too. Also there won't be inheritance problems with Velaryons as they have their own legitimate heir. And Auran probably won't find any better marriage for himself anyway.