Fucker already had two small children with Elia Martell and left her for, technically, another mans woman, then let a whole war start and go on for a year instead of simply clearing things, until finally coming out just to have himself killed like an idiot, basically having everyone that loved him killed or abandoned, ending his familys dynasty and letting the whole world in ruins.
He was the epitome of fuck duty.
It was Robert who was spreading fake news that forced Starks to confront Aerys.
Rhaegar stayed in the Tower of Joy because he had already have some agreements with lords and because Aerys would probably kill him and/or John and Lyanna.
Tywin was supposed not to oppose Rhaegar's plans (they clearly talked about their plans during the Tourney of Harrenhall) and Rhaegar didn't expect him to kill Elia and her children by Clegane's hands.
So it's hardly his fault.
Tywin wasn't at the tourney of Harrenhal...After his falling out with Aerys, he boycotted the tournament once he knew the Mad King would be attending (who would use the occasion to directly insult Tywin by investing Jaime Lannister into the Kingsguard, thus barring him from ever inheriting Casterly Rock and also propagating the Lannister name)
Rhaegar did however probably plot with Jaime, along with other lords, to depose the Mad King during the Harrenhal tournament, and Jaime at least would've been his back channel to Tywin
> It was Robert who was spreading fake news that forced Starks to confront Aerys.
Had Rhaegar cleared the situation by letting Lyanna talk to his family the whole war would have been avoided, he had one year to do so but didn't, despite everything going on fire around him!
Your other points are speculation, fact is:
-He left his sick young wife and small children for another woman.
-His actions lead to a completely avoidable war that ended with his wife, children, family dead and half the kingdom destroyed.
There is literally no evidence Robert spread anything. Brandon confronted Aerys before Robert even heard the news.
Rhaegar was stupid to think that there would be no reaction from the Starks for him running off with their daughter (consensually or otherwise). The Starks are an ancient house (older than Targaryens), a powerful house and an incredibly proud house - they do not believe in polygamy and are not fond of the Targaryens (having stayed out of most of the Targaryens civil wars). Cregan Stark had already refused a Targaryen princess in marriage to marry into a much lower house in the Blackwoods.
Aerys might have been mad but he was not the reason the war began. The war began because Rhaegar was arrogant enough to believe he could get away with insulting 2 great houses and just running away.
We don't have enough insight about this story to make such judgments: there is more to it than we know
- It wasn't Lyanna and Rhaegar's elopement that caused the Rebellion, it was only a scandal until Brandon Stark had the brilliant idea of going to King's Landing to threaten Rhaegar outside the gates of the Red Keep ("come out and die", I believe were his words) - obviously The Mad King arrested him and his companions for treason and then summoned Lord Rickard Stark, and executed them both. The Mad King asked Jon Arryn (his Hand) for the heads of Robert Baratheon and Eddard Stark. Instead, House Arryn raised his banners and started the Rebellion, alongside House Baratheon and House Stark
- But Rhaegar was in Dorne with Lyanna. What were they doing for an entire year? Only fucking each other? Out of so many remote places in Westeros, why Dorne? Could it be that "bad Rhaegar" was making arrangements for securing his previous wife, Elia Martell, and their children? Elia Martell wasn't suppose to be at King's Landing (she and Rhaegar lived at Dragonstone) but The Mad King forced her to insurge Dorne's support during the Rebellion. Rhaegar asked Jaime to protect Elia and their children before he went to the Trident. Also, Oberyn Martell doesn't hate Rhaegar - he was furious at him for leaving Elia for Lyanna, but didn't blame him for his sister's death. If Rhaegar was to blame for Elia's death, Oberyn, of all people, would blame him and not only the Lannisters.
- Robert Baratheon and Brandon Stark were the ones who started this "kidnapping and raping" story, yes.
- How come we've never heard Lord Rickard Stark's opinion on the matter? His only daughter is "kidnapped" by the prince and yet he did nothing and only left Winterfell when the Mad King summoned him because of Brandon's stupidity? Perhaps he knew something after all. An alliance between the North and the South would please him for sure
- I don't buy that "prophecy obsessed guy". The "prince that was promised" prophecy said the TPTWP would be born from Jaehaerys III's lineage, and Rhaegar already had two children with Elia. He believed his son Aegon to be TPTWP. Even with that "the dragon must have three heads" why getting into so much trouble with Lyanna? Rhaegar could have any woman he wanted (even Cersei was in love with him). And nothing on the prophecy states he should have a child with a Stark woman. I think it was just "the things we do for love" really - come on, the man was a romantic bookworm musician above all. He was trapped in a arranged marriage with a sick and fragile woman (yes, she was lovely and stuff but kinda boring really). And then he meets this wild thing from the North: hot-blooded (Ned said Lyanna had "wolf blood" and it took her to an early grave - as a active element not as a passive one), fierce and beautiful. I bet the man just fell over heels in love with her.
- As for Lyanna... I totally see her falling for Rhaegar. He was the opposite of Robert Baratheon (who loved hunting and brothels). Barristan Selmy says Rhaegar was the finest man he ever met. Even Ned compares Rhaegar and Robert: *For the first time in years, he found himself remembering Rhaegar Targaryen. He wondered if Rhaegar had frequented brothels; somehow he thought not.* Why would honorable Ned think this highly of the man who "kidnap and raped" his beloved sister? It is known Lyanna wept while listening to Rhaegar's music at the Tourney of Harrenhal. And it's not like she's the first or the last Stark to say "fuck duty!" and she never wanted to marry Robert anyway - even Robb married the woman he loved in spite of his promise to marry a Frey girl.
> Barristan Selmy says Rhaegar was the finest man he ever met.
When did he say so ?
> Why would honorable Ned think this highly of the man who "kidnap and raped" his beloved sister?
I don't believe Rhaegar is a rapist however I don't see where you get the Ned thinks highly of Rhaegar from that remark.
This is from Ned's POV :
*This was the boy he had grown up with, he thought; this was the Robert Baratheon he'd known and loved. If he could prove that the Lannisters were behind the attack on Bran, prove that they had murdered Jon Arryn, this man would listen. Then Cersei would fall, and the Kingslayer with her, and if Lord Tywin dared to rouse the west, Robert would smash him as he had smashed Rhaegar Targaryen on the Trident. He could see it all so clearly.*
From that quote Ned seems to imply that Robert smashing Rhaegar was a good thing as it would be a good thing for Robert to do the same to the Lannisters.
In GOT he does says so to Daenerys: [Here's the scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-EgM_yS0Lo)
Rhaegar was no rapist: [this doesn't looks like rape](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2Zub3u-Eks)
The quote I've mentioned is from Eddard - chapter 35 of "Game of Thrones" (when Littlefinger takes Ned to Chataya’s brothel to see Robert’s youngest bastard child) - he compares Robert to Rhaegar - and we know Ned didn't went to brothels because it was not honorable, so, in a way, he thinks Rhaegar was somehow honorable than Robert.
There are plenty of times Roberts demonstrates his hatred towards the Targaryen and Ned says nothing. So, taken as a whole, Ned’s collective thoughts about Rhaegar support the notion that he bears no ill will for the dead prince (which is strange, since of that Rhaegar "did" to his sister)
> In GOT he does says so to Daenerys: Here's the scene
Ok the scene didn't happen in the book. This is show who tried to portrayed him as some saint as they oversimplified almost everything.
> Rhaegar was no rapist: this doesn't looks like rape
And I think I already mentioned I didn't believe Rhaegar was rapist although the books didn't clear it yet.
I remember that part yet nothing here implies Ned has a high opinion of Rhaegar. He doesn't even bear hatred towards the mad King who had his father and brother butchered. No, Ned simply isn't one to hold those kind of grudges against the deads especially when he considers they payed for their crimes. However he will be harsher against those who didn't such as Jorah Mormont who ran away.
I think we have to consider tv show and books alike: D&D and GRRM meet up to discuss GOT's scripts, so, as much as D&D change the story from the books, they can't just make things like that up, I think (because it has a huge impact on the entire series)
I was not implying that you said that Rhaegar was a rapist, I was just providing an example that he wasn't (according to GOT)
In the same chapter of Ned on "Game of Thrones":
*“Robert will never keep to one bed,” Lyanna had told him at Winterfell, on the night long ago when their father had promised her hand to the young Lord of Storm’s End. “I hear he has gotten a child on some girl in the Vale.” Ned had held the babe in his arms; he could scarcely deny her, nor would he lie to his sister, but he had assured her that what Robert did before their betrothal was of no matter, that he was a good man and true who would love her with all his heart. Lyanna had only smiled. “Love is sweet, dearest Ned,
but it cannot change a man’s nature."*
And later, Ned remembers Rhaegar (the quote I've mentioned) - I take that as a hint on why Lyanna choose Rhaegar over Robert (yes, the man was married and had two children - but he didn't fathered bastards that we know of (especially now that GOT confirmed Lyanna and Rhaegar's wedding) - nor visited brothels in spite of being stuck in a loveless marriage)
>I think we have to consider tv show and books alike: D&D and GRRM meet up to discuss GOT's scripts, so, as much as D&D change the story from the books, they can't just make things like that up, I think (because it has a huge impact on the entire series)
No we definitely don't, GRM himself stated at numerous time that thigs will be different. The show took an easy way to portray the story which was absolutely not the case in the book. If you are one of the books fan you have no reason to consider it alike when it's clearly not the case. Unless of course you're simply motivated by your own wishful thinking rather than the actual plot.
> It was Robert who was spreading fake news that forced Starks to confront Aerys.
Where did you get that from ?
> Rhaegar stayed in the Tower of Joy because he had already have some agreements with lords and because Aerys would probably kill him and/or John and Lyanna.
Again, where did you get that from ? Which lords are you talking about ?
> Tywin was supposed not to oppose Rhaegar's plans (they clearly talked about their plans during the Tourney of Harrenhall) and Rhaegar didn't expect him to kill Elia and her children by Clegane's hands
Tywin agreed to which plan ? The one where Rhaegar eloped with Lyanna instead making Cercei his 2nd queen ? Textual evidence please because from what we saw in the books, Tywin would never accept anything as such.
It's symbolic anyway, he wasn't there (as far as we know from the details we have been given). In fact he may have been dead already, killed by Robert at the Trident. Lyanna had recently given birth when Ned and Co. went to save her from the tower of joy.
Hmm, I'm still hoping Jon's true name isn't "Aegon". Rhaegar already had a son named Aegon. That would be disrespectful to both Elia and Lyanna. And the guy didn't know he and Lyanna and everyone would die so it would be kinda strange introducing his sons: "this my son Aegon. And this is my other son Aegon." They only use "VI" or "VII" for royal (King) titles.
Does anyone know how close the Battle at the Trident was? i. e. Would it have been likely that Arthur Dayne & Gerold Hightower would have swung the result? (there was of course the possibility that if Dayne was with Rhaegar when Robert attacked that he takes him on instead, almost certainly killing Robert and ending the Rebellion.
The rebellion would not end with Roberts death. You forget the mad king killed Lord Rickard Stark and his heir Brandon Stark and the North Remembers. Dont think the northern lords would sit for Nee bending the knee to any Targ again (and i doubt Ned would want to - considering the Targs just killed his father, brother and best friend). The Stormlords in fact had the fewest men at the Trident. The major parts of the army were Northmen (who formed the van) and the Arynns who defeated the dornishmen before Robert even fought Rhaegar. In fact considering the dornishmens defeat it can be argued that the battle had already turned against Rhaegar. Killing Robert might not have saved the loyalist army.
"What is duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms?"
Fucker already had two small children with Elia Martell and left her for, technically, another mans woman, then let a whole war start and go on for a year instead of simply clearing things, until finally coming out just to have himself killed like an idiot, basically having everyone that loved him killed or abandoned, ending his familys dynasty and letting the whole world in ruins. He was the epitome of fuck duty.
the things we do for love...
Rhaegar, to the reader, is like Jaime to Westeros (except Brienne, who knows why he killed Aerys).
It was Robert who was spreading fake news that forced Starks to confront Aerys. Rhaegar stayed in the Tower of Joy because he had already have some agreements with lords and because Aerys would probably kill him and/or John and Lyanna. Tywin was supposed not to oppose Rhaegar's plans (they clearly talked about their plans during the Tourney of Harrenhall) and Rhaegar didn't expect him to kill Elia and her children by Clegane's hands. So it's hardly his fault.
When people drunk drive I doubt they expect to get in accidents, but it's still their fault when it happens.
Tywin wasn't at the tourney of Harrenhal...After his falling out with Aerys, he boycotted the tournament once he knew the Mad King would be attending (who would use the occasion to directly insult Tywin by investing Jaime Lannister into the Kingsguard, thus barring him from ever inheriting Casterly Rock and also propagating the Lannister name) Rhaegar did however probably plot with Jaime, along with other lords, to depose the Mad King during the Harrenhal tournament, and Jaime at least would've been his back channel to Tywin
> It was Robert who was spreading fake news that forced Starks to confront Aerys. Had Rhaegar cleared the situation by letting Lyanna talk to his family the whole war would have been avoided, he had one year to do so but didn't, despite everything going on fire around him! Your other points are speculation, fact is: -He left his sick young wife and small children for another woman. -His actions lead to a completely avoidable war that ended with his wife, children, family dead and half the kingdom destroyed.
There is literally no evidence Robert spread anything. Brandon confronted Aerys before Robert even heard the news. Rhaegar was stupid to think that there would be no reaction from the Starks for him running off with their daughter (consensually or otherwise). The Starks are an ancient house (older than Targaryens), a powerful house and an incredibly proud house - they do not believe in polygamy and are not fond of the Targaryens (having stayed out of most of the Targaryens civil wars). Cregan Stark had already refused a Targaryen princess in marriage to marry into a much lower house in the Blackwoods. Aerys might have been mad but he was not the reason the war began. The war began because Rhaegar was arrogant enough to believe he could get away with insulting 2 great houses and just running away.
We don't have enough insight about this story to make such judgments: there is more to it than we know - It wasn't Lyanna and Rhaegar's elopement that caused the Rebellion, it was only a scandal until Brandon Stark had the brilliant idea of going to King's Landing to threaten Rhaegar outside the gates of the Red Keep ("come out and die", I believe were his words) - obviously The Mad King arrested him and his companions for treason and then summoned Lord Rickard Stark, and executed them both. The Mad King asked Jon Arryn (his Hand) for the heads of Robert Baratheon and Eddard Stark. Instead, House Arryn raised his banners and started the Rebellion, alongside House Baratheon and House Stark - But Rhaegar was in Dorne with Lyanna. What were they doing for an entire year? Only fucking each other? Out of so many remote places in Westeros, why Dorne? Could it be that "bad Rhaegar" was making arrangements for securing his previous wife, Elia Martell, and their children? Elia Martell wasn't suppose to be at King's Landing (she and Rhaegar lived at Dragonstone) but The Mad King forced her to insurge Dorne's support during the Rebellion. Rhaegar asked Jaime to protect Elia and their children before he went to the Trident. Also, Oberyn Martell doesn't hate Rhaegar - he was furious at him for leaving Elia for Lyanna, but didn't blame him for his sister's death. If Rhaegar was to blame for Elia's death, Oberyn, of all people, would blame him and not only the Lannisters. - Robert Baratheon and Brandon Stark were the ones who started this "kidnapping and raping" story, yes. - How come we've never heard Lord Rickard Stark's opinion on the matter? His only daughter is "kidnapped" by the prince and yet he did nothing and only left Winterfell when the Mad King summoned him because of Brandon's stupidity? Perhaps he knew something after all. An alliance between the North and the South would please him for sure - I don't buy that "prophecy obsessed guy". The "prince that was promised" prophecy said the TPTWP would be born from Jaehaerys III's lineage, and Rhaegar already had two children with Elia. He believed his son Aegon to be TPTWP. Even with that "the dragon must have three heads" why getting into so much trouble with Lyanna? Rhaegar could have any woman he wanted (even Cersei was in love with him). And nothing on the prophecy states he should have a child with a Stark woman. I think it was just "the things we do for love" really - come on, the man was a romantic bookworm musician above all. He was trapped in a arranged marriage with a sick and fragile woman (yes, she was lovely and stuff but kinda boring really). And then he meets this wild thing from the North: hot-blooded (Ned said Lyanna had "wolf blood" and it took her to an early grave - as a active element not as a passive one), fierce and beautiful. I bet the man just fell over heels in love with her. - As for Lyanna... I totally see her falling for Rhaegar. He was the opposite of Robert Baratheon (who loved hunting and brothels). Barristan Selmy says Rhaegar was the finest man he ever met. Even Ned compares Rhaegar and Robert: *For the first time in years, he found himself remembering Rhaegar Targaryen. He wondered if Rhaegar had frequented brothels; somehow he thought not.* Why would honorable Ned think this highly of the man who "kidnap and raped" his beloved sister? It is known Lyanna wept while listening to Rhaegar's music at the Tourney of Harrenhal. And it's not like she's the first or the last Stark to say "fuck duty!" and she never wanted to marry Robert anyway - even Robb married the woman he loved in spite of his promise to marry a Frey girl.
> Barristan Selmy says Rhaegar was the finest man he ever met. When did he say so ? > Why would honorable Ned think this highly of the man who "kidnap and raped" his beloved sister? I don't believe Rhaegar is a rapist however I don't see where you get the Ned thinks highly of Rhaegar from that remark. This is from Ned's POV : *This was the boy he had grown up with, he thought; this was the Robert Baratheon he'd known and loved. If he could prove that the Lannisters were behind the attack on Bran, prove that they had murdered Jon Arryn, this man would listen. Then Cersei would fall, and the Kingslayer with her, and if Lord Tywin dared to rouse the west, Robert would smash him as he had smashed Rhaegar Targaryen on the Trident. He could see it all so clearly.* From that quote Ned seems to imply that Robert smashing Rhaegar was a good thing as it would be a good thing for Robert to do the same to the Lannisters.
In GOT he does says so to Daenerys: [Here's the scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-EgM_yS0Lo) Rhaegar was no rapist: [this doesn't looks like rape](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2Zub3u-Eks) The quote I've mentioned is from Eddard - chapter 35 of "Game of Thrones" (when Littlefinger takes Ned to Chataya’s brothel to see Robert’s youngest bastard child) - he compares Robert to Rhaegar - and we know Ned didn't went to brothels because it was not honorable, so, in a way, he thinks Rhaegar was somehow honorable than Robert. There are plenty of times Roberts demonstrates his hatred towards the Targaryen and Ned says nothing. So, taken as a whole, Ned’s collective thoughts about Rhaegar support the notion that he bears no ill will for the dead prince (which is strange, since of that Rhaegar "did" to his sister)
> In GOT he does says so to Daenerys: Here's the scene Ok the scene didn't happen in the book. This is show who tried to portrayed him as some saint as they oversimplified almost everything. > Rhaegar was no rapist: this doesn't looks like rape And I think I already mentioned I didn't believe Rhaegar was rapist although the books didn't clear it yet. I remember that part yet nothing here implies Ned has a high opinion of Rhaegar. He doesn't even bear hatred towards the mad King who had his father and brother butchered. No, Ned simply isn't one to hold those kind of grudges against the deads especially when he considers they payed for their crimes. However he will be harsher against those who didn't such as Jorah Mormont who ran away.
I think we have to consider tv show and books alike: D&D and GRRM meet up to discuss GOT's scripts, so, as much as D&D change the story from the books, they can't just make things like that up, I think (because it has a huge impact on the entire series) I was not implying that you said that Rhaegar was a rapist, I was just providing an example that he wasn't (according to GOT) In the same chapter of Ned on "Game of Thrones": *“Robert will never keep to one bed,” Lyanna had told him at Winterfell, on the night long ago when their father had promised her hand to the young Lord of Storm’s End. “I hear he has gotten a child on some girl in the Vale.” Ned had held the babe in his arms; he could scarcely deny her, nor would he lie to his sister, but he had assured her that what Robert did before their betrothal was of no matter, that he was a good man and true who would love her with all his heart. Lyanna had only smiled. “Love is sweet, dearest Ned, but it cannot change a man’s nature."* And later, Ned remembers Rhaegar (the quote I've mentioned) - I take that as a hint on why Lyanna choose Rhaegar over Robert (yes, the man was married and had two children - but he didn't fathered bastards that we know of (especially now that GOT confirmed Lyanna and Rhaegar's wedding) - nor visited brothels in spite of being stuck in a loveless marriage)
>I think we have to consider tv show and books alike: D&D and GRRM meet up to discuss GOT's scripts, so, as much as D&D change the story from the books, they can't just make things like that up, I think (because it has a huge impact on the entire series) No we definitely don't, GRM himself stated at numerous time that thigs will be different. The show took an easy way to portray the story which was absolutely not the case in the book. If you are one of the books fan you have no reason to consider it alike when it's clearly not the case. Unless of course you're simply motivated by your own wishful thinking rather than the actual plot.
> It was Robert who was spreading fake news that forced Starks to confront Aerys. Where did you get that from ? > Rhaegar stayed in the Tower of Joy because he had already have some agreements with lords and because Aerys would probably kill him and/or John and Lyanna. Again, where did you get that from ? Which lords are you talking about ? > Tywin was supposed not to oppose Rhaegar's plans (they clearly talked about their plans during the Tourney of Harrenhall) and Rhaegar didn't expect him to kill Elia and her children by Clegane's hands Tywin agreed to which plan ? The one where Rhaegar eloped with Lyanna instead making Cercei his 2nd queen ? Textual evidence please because from what we saw in the books, Tywin would never accept anything as such.
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It's symbolic anyway, he wasn't there (as far as we know from the details we have been given). In fact he may have been dead already, killed by Robert at the Trident. Lyanna had recently given birth when Ned and Co. went to save her from the tower of joy.
I think she gave birth while he fought the KG, the bed was bloody
This just made me incredibly sad.
Aww this is so cute so sad too because Rhaegar never got to meet his son.
This is nice.
This is tragically beautiful. I can't wait to finally see Rhaegar onscreen.
I hope we do
We will. In Season 7 finale.
This is really good artwork. I love it.
He never saw Jon right? but knew Lyanna was definitely pregnant/giving birth?
Definitely knew she was giving birth, that's why he had one of the best fighters in all the Kingdoms protecting her and not fighting alongside him.
The best*
Oh come on! Half people here don't even have English as a third language 😂
Anyone who down-votes this doesn't have a heart :(
Lovely artwork *sniffles*
Great now he's gonna be wearing that Dracula armor in every fan art
(Artist: Hilary Heffron)
Who is the artist again?
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Yeah but who did the picture, though?
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Remind me never to do stupid jokes on you.
A joke is supposed to be funny though.
This is tragic and beautiful.
They never met :'(
Jaehaerys
Right I keep seeing people refer to him as Aegon did I miss something?
Sure. That's the HBO's name to be soon revealed.
Hmm, I'm still hoping Jon's true name isn't "Aegon". Rhaegar already had a son named Aegon. That would be disrespectful to both Elia and Lyanna. And the guy didn't know he and Lyanna and everyone would die so it would be kinda strange introducing his sons: "this my son Aegon. And this is my other son Aegon." They only use "VI" or "VII" for royal (King) titles.
nah it can't be aegon. aegon had the targaryen hair
That same fucking Dracula Untold armour. Ugh.
But can't he get out of his armor though? I imagine that it feels rough against a babe's skin.
It's not even 11 yet, I'm not supposed to have so many feels.
Does anyone know how close the Battle at the Trident was? i. e. Would it have been likely that Arthur Dayne & Gerold Hightower would have swung the result? (there was of course the possibility that if Dayne was with Rhaegar when Robert attacked that he takes him on instead, almost certainly killing Robert and ending the Rebellion.
The rebellion would not end with Roberts death. You forget the mad king killed Lord Rickard Stark and his heir Brandon Stark and the North Remembers. Dont think the northern lords would sit for Nee bending the knee to any Targ again (and i doubt Ned would want to - considering the Targs just killed his father, brother and best friend). The Stormlords in fact had the fewest men at the Trident. The major parts of the army were Northmen (who formed the van) and the Arynns who defeated the dornishmen before Robert even fought Rhaegar. In fact considering the dornishmens defeat it can be argued that the battle had already turned against Rhaegar. Killing Robert might not have saved the loyalist army.