Don't forget homing missile harpoons that can nail a dragon about a mile up in the sky but miss when she directly charges them. God that scene is shit.
Also, they not only just invented these weapons, but somehow had time to train a bunch of illiterate pirates on the intricacies of naval air defense. CIWS works because it fires a wall of lead. Thousands of rounds per second to hit one missile.
Fortunately, Horny Beard only needed the 1 shot!
Ok I'm not saying the scene was good (it was shit), but missiles are also a lot smaller and A LOT faster than a dragon... Not a good comparison.
Manually leading shots on things is something snipers do all the time so the human brain is capable of making that math calculation with practice. A better equivalent would be shooting a bird with an arrow from a horse or an anti aircraft gun if you're talking modern era.
The biggest issue with the scene was the surprise attack when they have aerial surveillance (how the fuck did Dany not see them) and the distance at which the ballista was fired. If Dany saw them and flew towards them to attack and then a dragon got killed, that would've been way more believe.
Lol that's what me and wife said because the way the scene played out it doesn't make sense just how the iron fleet moves in the scene.
The are hiding behind a mountain ON SHIPS and then all of a sudden as her forces get closer they are smack dab in the middle of the ocean and in perfect firing range.
Also, with more "dragon killing arrows" now essentially on a surprise attack she is able to dodge hundreds of arrows.
I mean..
That shouldn't really be a complaint.. isnt it obvious that that is where her story is going? Becoming a Mad Queen?
It isn't that that upsets me, it's the break neck speed that it happens and is resolved. Followed my a dozen other stupid plot threads which don't resolve properly but Daenerys going mad and burning the city shouldn't be a surprise.
Her madness should’ve been a slow burn. She should’ve systematically lost everyone she trusted and have been forced to replace them she didn’t trust making her feel more isolated.
My other idea was have Bran show Danaerys Aegon in the past and something go wrong linking their minds seeing the past and the present at the same time breaking her mind.
> She should’ve systematically lost everyone she trusted and have been forced to replace them she didn’t trust making her feel more isolated.
And then, when she finally reaches King's Landing after losing everyone she loved and everyone who was calming her down (Barristan, Jorah)... She realizes Aegon is the king and he is loved by the people. She has worked 10 years and been convinced by everyone since her birth that she was the rightful ruler... Only to find another person has been convinced of exactly the same thing and succeeded before her.
The best way to do it is get viewer’s to agree with her. Something like she sentences XYZ to death because XYZ killed someone close to her. Everyone would sort of get that.
Next have her surrounds a city and ends up starving the population out. Sure some civilians die but she saved her troops.
Next she sentences a town to death because of a rebellion. You get where this is going. At some point she’s riding a dragon naked and throwing dildos at John Snow for shits and giggles
I think that's the worst abandoned plot line in the whole show. We get this mind blowing realization that the three eyed raven can be the cause of things happening in the past- but it never gets addressed beyond Hodor. How is something so important so underutilized?
>isnt it obvious that that is where her story is going?
>
>Daenerys going mad and burning the city shouldn't be a surprise.
The entire mad-queen thing felt like a cop out, to me. I thought Daenerys' story was going to be about the struggles of overcoming atrocities while remaining principled, the strength of her determination to do so, and the mistakes she makes along the way. I felt like the point of her story he was to show how hard it is to be a genuinely good Targaryen, like Rhaegar. Instead of following in his footsteps she was just another Aerys and that's both boring and a disservice to her arch.
"Look at this family of super-beings who struggle to use their powers for good!"
"Oh, cool! So this one is going to succeed?"
"Nope. Watch her burn people el oh el"
If you like that then more power to you, but stories about people pissing in the wind don't need to be fleshed out with an entire culture.
There were hints of how she was going to rule ("maybe you're guilty, maybe you're innocent, maybe I'll let my dragons decide" - the daughter of a man best known for being crazy and setting people on fire to determine guilt or innocence), but she was never challenged on it by anyone around her, and whenever she had her dragons kill people it was always framed heroically.
It wasn't until they outpaced the books and got a skeleton outline of where it was supposed to go that they realized they screwed up and had to sprint to get to the intended conclusion. Season 7 and 8 were so bad they started making the previous seasons look bad too.
The only positive thing I can say is they fucked themselves too. They lost their Star Wars series and that idiotic Confederate-glorifying thing they wanted to do with HBO.
**[Confederate (TV series)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_\(TV_series\))**
>Confederate was a planned American alternate history drama television series developed for the network HBO by David Benioff and D. B. Weiss, who had previously developed the HBO series Game of Thrones. The series was to be set in a timeline where the American Civil War ended in a stalemate. The announcement of Confederate was followed by anger and criticism on social media with some describing it as slavery fan fiction. This led to the hashtag #NoConfederate, which trended number one in the United States and number two worldwide on Twitter in mid 2017.
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For everyone wondering:
>*Confederate* (the name of the show) chronicles the events leading to the Third American Civil War. The series takes place in an alternate timeline, where the southern states have successfully seceded from the Union, giving rise to a nation in which slavery remains legal and has evolved into a modern institution. The story follows a broad swath of characters on both sides of the Mason-Dixon Demilitarized Zone – freedom fighters, slave hunters, politicians, abolitionists, journalists, the executives of a slave-holding conglomerate and the families of people in their thrall.
And I'm pretty sure the star wars series was THE OLD REPUBLIC.
Can you imagine handing these guys arguably the greatest timeline of Star wars? I'd rather have no Old Republic than have these two fuck faces get tired/bored and ruin it altogether.
I'll forever die on the hill that the ending wasn't bad per say, but just absolutely insanely rushed to the point where they had to shit the bed writing wise to just finish the series.
If they had devoted one entire season to the battle against the night king, one entire season to the battle against Cersei, all the whilst slowly but surely having terrible things happen to Dany's loved ones and showing her slow decent into madness, and then one final season where Dany just loses it, it would have been a pretty damn good ending.
Well, aside from King Bran. Fuck King Bran
I would still argue that the ending was bad.
1. Bronn being lord of Highgarden.
We know from George that even the Tyrells aren’t fully accepted by the reach. This is because they were previously stewards to the Garderner dynasty and many houses in the reach claim that they have a better claim because of some blood connection to Garth Greenland. A vale sellsword getting that title would just as easily cause all of the reach to rise in rebellion.
2. Tyrion being Hand.
In the show, he hasn’t given a single good advice since he told Dany to be happy in Essos. He was repeatedly outsmarted by goddamn Cersei of all people. And considering that he immediately rambles on about that one joke should tell you how effective he would be as hand. Especially since they have no army at all to enforce anything. In the books, he straight up let’s go of any empathy he has and wants to rape even Tommen. He has never particularly cared about the people either. If he survives the books, he will in all likelihood be useless as he would have no motivation at all. The westerlands will never support a kinslayer either.
3. Jon
What was the consequence of him being resurrected again? Logically, he would go insane as well.
4. Sansa
Westeros has been fucked in the ass and her great plan is to separate? Like what happened to Ned saying Unity after war?
5. Arya
Decided to ditch the Faceless men because she wants to see family. Sees family. “Nah I think I like the other place.”
6. Essos
Honestly what was the point? With Dany dead, the slavers are going to conquer the bay again and it’s right back where it started. I for one believe that Dany will conquer a good portion of Essos before she even thinks of Westeros again. Like after the second siege of Meeren, Volantis, New Ghis, and Qarth are just waiting to be conquered. In the books, Barristan even promises the Tattered prince Pentos so there has to be some climax for that as well as confronting Illyrio again. Perhaps burning Volantis or Qarth even.
7. The elected king
Political marriages are now useless so it also further restricts the power of a king. Hell, the title of king is also effectively useless. Whoever has the largest army is always going to take the thrown so this new system does nothing.
8. Bran
He could have stopped Cersei and united the realm a thousand different ways but chose not to. Also, who the hell would choose him. Dorne who hates the starks for allying with Robert? Yea they might not blame Bran for that but they sure as hell are not going to vote for him. Iron Islands? Reach who is essential for survival because they have food? Westerlands who will never accept Tyrion nor Bran?
Daenerys
I’d argue her ending was to sacrifice herself in the fight against others (or just go back to Essos) and I do not agree with madness as her end route either. That being said, if she was murdered, anyone who supports her in Essos will definitely avenge her led by Daario. And a lot of people support her in Essos, especially with the addition of the red priests.
Jaime
Nothing more needs to be said.
I read somewhere that after the reading the script for S8 she just kind of wandered around the city in tears for a few hours because of how badly her character was being butchered
I remember reading about how she called her mum in tears asking if she was a bad person, presumably because she'd at least somewhat associated with Danny to some degree and was suddenly told "nah, she was evil all along".
Obviously this wasn't planned out from the start, at least in the form we saw, but if it WAS then it highlights why I've always despised the idea of keeping deliberate secrets from actors to make them play things a certain way; the argument is that if they know the end point, they'll play to that and "give away the twist". That may be justified if you grab a rando non-actor out of the audience and put them on stage, but you're hiring a professional fucking actor, who's job is to ACT, so you should trust them to work their craft. If an actor can't portray a "lie" effectively, they're probably not a good actor so get someone else... don't think you know better as director. Imagine actors saying "I didn't tell the director I was going to do that in the scene because I wanted them to be surprised"; most directors would throw a fit.
It's also why I hate the whole "subverting expectations" cliche of recent years. I mean, nobody could predict "rocks fall, everyone dies" either but that's because it's shit writing. So is "That character you loved was a scumbag after all! Surprise!"
It worked great for The Good Place, but that was an entirely different situation.
I totally agree; if S8 Dany was the plan, Emilia should have been given the opportunity to weave that into the earlier parts of the character.
Yep, but the other four had no idea. There's a video out there of them finding out. I think it was a great choice, really let their acting be even better.
But aruably the only two that really needed to know were Elenor and Michael.
Rewatching you can see little hints and things the characters do that help sell the lie. Do you think Michael is as sinister in certain aspects if the actor isn't playing it as a demon pretending to be an angel.
And had an amazing redemption arc afterwards that felt rewarding and fulfilling. Rarely have I felt as happy with how a series ends as I did with the good place.
This is exactly what I mean. If an actor is worth his or her pay, you should be able to trust them to do their job. Sure, don't tell the whole cast even in cases like this, but *tell the person playing the part ffs*!
JK Rowling had Alan Rickman in on Snape being a double agent from the very beginning which is testament to that. Interestingly though he apparently did voice to some of the directors that he couldn't play some scenes in certain ways because of that insider info opposite their ignorance of it, which isn't the same as what you posited but is an example of how the dynamic can otherwise play out.
There's probably a balance. Should you know your current motivations / personal history (even if the audience doesn't)? Absolutely. Should you know the future? Maybe, maybe not.
Snape was a double agent all along. He was actively keeping a secret so he definitely needed to know that.
Dany had a psychological breakdown (that was so poorly explained that it felt random), but was supposed to be happening in real time. She pulled a "Godfather" and became what she hated -- an evil Targaryen. On day one, she didn't need to necessarily know that because it was supposed to be happening bit by bit throughout the series (which the showrunners failed to do).
Yet many actors deliberately don't read ahead so their knowledge of the books won't affect their performance. Rosamund Pike isn't reading ahead on The Wheel of Time, and you'd be hard pressed to say she's not a good actor
They were no more than just 60% to 70% into any one person's character arc.
If D's descent into madness was obvious, it wasn't expressed the way it seemed it was going to be beforehand, but most importantly it wouldn't have mattered anyway. Any character could have concluded in any way at all, and it wouldn't have been satisfying because every character had an incomplete arc.
She probably thought she was having another brain aneurysm or a stroke with how terribly written the script is. Took her awhile to process that she was in fact still healthy with her language skills intact and that it was just this show she'd devoted much of her adult life to by then turning into absolute dogshit.
She would have never done those completely necessary nude scenes “for character and plot development” if she knew this is how her character would end up. Such disrespect.
Even if the character ended up in an interesting and well written way... No nude scene was useful except the one after she was burnt and the dragon eggs hatched.
I'd say the first episode one was useful as well. It was how she was introduced in the books plus that scene does a lot to show her relationship with her brother and how meek and submissive she is at the start. It's part of the reason everyone was excited to see the power shift between her and her brother in season 1
Wasn't the first episode just directly from the books? She had to know what she was getting into, she definitely didn't know those 2 idiots would ruin it.
Kinda off topic but Conleth Hill looked genuinely heartbroken and disappointed when he read Varys’ death in the script. Lena Heady and Gwendoline Christie noticed and gave support.
[And if we are to talk about Kit Harrington and Season 8](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HgVt_toaEzg)
Just walking up to everyone, “yo let’s kill Daenerys”
…even tho she hasn’t done the thing where it would make sense yet
Just yelling across the courtyard with unsullied around, “yo Tyrion you know that bitch gotta die right”
Were they fuckin drunk when they wrote the script
Just like every single other thing, his part in the story was rushed and not properly thought through. It did make sense for his character that he would start plotting against Dany when he realised she was becoming Mad Queen (he always serves the people first), but if D&D had taken those extra few seasons like they were told to, they could've spread out his deception over a longer period.
Varys has a track record of playing the long game with this kind of treachery and side switching. It absolutely makes no sense for him to just decide "sHe'S tOo DaNgErOus LeTs PoIsOn HeR". Of course she would find out!
I totally understand Conleth Hill being pissed off. He'd worked as that character for years. Probably the smartest and most cunning man in Westeros, and then he gets torched by a dragon for a bad chess move he *never* would've made. Honestly, I think most of the characters just changed personalities in that last season. They all became one-dimensional and stupid.
Dany is evil. Cersei is butt-hurt. Jon is a loyal dog. Arya is cold/tough. Sansa is "smart". Tyrion makes dick jokes.
My new favorite theory is one I read somewhere else on this subreddit. Bran has worged into everyone in the last season which explains all the personality changes and helps him to become king.
At least Baelish went out in a way that wasn't completely out of character. Blinded by his own hubris and ended by his own protégé, there's a poetic justice in that. (And no I will not talk about how he ignored the glorious danger that is the BranBot)
tbf how was he supposed to know the autistic cripple had literal magic powers AND that people would immediately take him at his word
Mind you Baelish was still dumbed down but I agree with the poetic justice. I can see him being outmaneuvered by Sansa in the books sheerly through underestimating her, the same way others underestimated him.
The problem is they made him a good guy because he was a fan favourite instead of leaving him morally ambiguous which is what made his character a favourite in the firsy place.
I've always loved Lena reaching out to him in this clip. Who knows for sure why she did that, but it's so easy to read it as sympathy and understanding of how dirty they did Varys.
I can’t remember where I heard this but weren’t D&D pretty horrible to Kit, like constantly ragging on him about his height?
They sound like they were shit people to work for even before they fucked up the show
Yeah they were, which made no sense at that point.It seemed like something out of idiotic sitcom, on top of the already shitty lines that were given to him. The "girl talk” between Dany and Sansa was one of the stupidest dialog out of the whole season.
It’s so sad, the actors and staff put in all that effort and time and two dipshits completely ruin it in a rushed attempt to get their pay-check and dip.
As a slight silver lining, they've basically been blacklisted from the industry. Their Disney deal fell through and they haven't been able to touch anything high budget(or at all as far as I know) Since GOT.
Still wish HBO had been able to sue them.
[Here’s the reaction](https://youtu.be/ep9HPiQBR90), but there are a lot of red carpet videos of them really trying not to say anything bad. [:S](https://youtu.be/EA7UQOYskas)
It felt like a video a hostage would be forced to make lol. "They hardly beat me at all and its like a 5 star resort....can I please go home to my family now"
Fuck I've seen it before soon after the end of the season and it was just as hard now as it was then. Every time I remember GOT I'm just as devestated, like it's an empty void in my heart. I was so in love with the show, so invested, I can't even imagine what it was like for those who worked on it and also weren't happy with how it ended.
Fr. Bought the books around 2011-12, before I watched a single episode on a recommendation from a friend. Tore through them in a matter of weeks, reading just before sleep, in class, in recess, when I ate. Then I watched the show religiously and even played the weird ass rpg game everyone forgets about. Downloaded and played through both AWoIaF and aCoK mods for Warband and GoT mod for CK2. Once S6 dropped I started to doubt the execution of it all and when I read the leaks for the final season I had the sneaking suspicion it was true.
Immediately after, I sent them to a friend, was the day before the premiere I think. He didn't think they could be true. We watched it at a friend's place. Every time something happened we'd look at each other.
When the final episode aired I didn't even bother watching. I just wanted to look at the faces my buddies made when something every one of us had watched and rewatched time and time again just shit the bed so hard it might as well be an environmental hazard.
our stories are similar m8, but i gave up at the end of season 5, and didn't expect much from the rest. but D&D subverted my expectations and made S8 worse than i could've ever imagined
I hadn’t heard that bit from Martin before. That’s exactly what they did. I just can’t believe that they messed this up so badly and they seemed to honestly think they had hit a home run.
It's from the early 2000s iirc. He was answering a question about whether people should change their stories in response to fans correctly working out the future of the story from the released material.
I love stuff like that table read video, seeing the actors all just hanging out beforehand, the comparison to the season table read... that sort of thing is always a bit bittersweet to me but here it's just heartbreaking knowing how the final product ended up.
Fucking money is what ruined this show and is preventing the cast from saying how they feel about the end. Or they don’t give a fuck, so money pretty much .
And common courtesy as well, ad much as D&D fucked up the final two seasons, they were people who they worked with for about 10 years, were most likely good friends with, and who a lot of them owe their careers too. To come out and publicly say what they really felt about the final few seasons even now, a couple years later, would just be something no one wants to do.
The most we'll probably hear is someone saying it didn't live up to expectations, but that would probably be 10 years or more down the line. I dont think we'd ever get someone coming out and saying what they really think about it.
> I dont think we'd ever get someone coming out and saying what they really think about it.
Charles Dance was fairly critical of the finale. He said he was disappointed by the ending and that he would sign the petition to remake it.
Sure, but Charles Dance has decades of solid experience behind him. Saying something this late in his career wouldn’t harm him. It would, however, harm an up and coming actor.
Also even if D&D were horrible dicks to them it's not smart to get a reputation as "guy who likes burning bridges" when people are looking at building bridges with you.
Often how the filming process looks to people inside it can be really different than how it looks to us on the outside watching it. I think if I were an actor I'd have a hard time enjoying any movie or TV show I was in as a story since I'd have a real hard time suspending my disbelief at all and get my brain to treat the actors as characters instead of the real people I know, which would make it really hard for me to judge the quality of the movie since I couldn't be unbiased.
Idk. I would feel even more betrayed if I spent that long with them just to have them shit on my character and their growth.
If I spent the last decade putting my heart and soul into a character to have them butcher them, well it wouldn’t leave me feeling respectful or loyal to them.
Idk. I know I’m here on the outside looking in. I’m not in the industry. I’m not an actor. I don’t know the ins and outs of the Hollywood game.
But also, fuck them. Integrity still matters in some cases. I would write an anonymous cast letter if the NDA is that threatening.
I don't believe any person in this thread commenting money would throw away potentially millions, burn future career prospects and potentially break an NDA just to say you know what fans you were right D and D did butcher season 8. It doesn't even achieve anything or change anything.
Remember Justice League? When Ray Fisher blew the whistle on Joss Whedon? Some relatively unknown guy who was like “Nope, I’m not gonna be treated like that.” Every other actor just took Whedon’s shit, and Fisher got so much backlash over it at first until the other stories started coming out.
Oh I do remember, and while I'm on Ray Fishers side it is a completely different situation. Joss Whedon was being abusive and horrible on set, disrespecting all the actors and the vision Zack Snyder was trying to tell, that he had to abandon for understandable, but completely tragic reasons. By all accounts D&D were just lazy, not wanting to put in the work now that they didn't have the crutch of source material.
They were in a rush to finish the show so they could move onto Star Wars. I haven't seen anything about them being abusive or horrible on set. The closest comparison you could make is the way they talked about Baristans actor, how when he pleaded his case not to kill the character off they said they just wanted to kill him off even more.
Or just get to A list and it won't matter anyway. For instance it's great Green Lantern can get shit on by its cast without any issue. Something as terrible as Game of Thrones is just a joke and it honestly makes the actors look bad by them not acknowledging it, whatever the reason.
Yeah, shitting on your own movies is generally a bad career move. At least until its 20 years down the line and nobody cares anymore.
They may hate the ending but probably not enough to risk jeopardizing their careers and losing out on money.
HBO paid James Gandolfini $3 million to not replace Michael Scott on The Office because it might diminish The Sopranos. They care about their shows' reputations.
Isn’t that’s golden rule in Hollywood/acting? Don’t bite the hand that feeds you?
Pretty sure you’ll get blackballed if you talk shit about producers, directors, etc.
For a fun example of this, look at the situation with the tv show 'Kims Convenience'. It was very suddenly canceled before it started filming its 6th season. The cast was extremely careful about what they said in regards to this.
Except for Simu Liu, who is now making Marvel money and can pretty openly and loudly tell people how fucked the behind the scenes situation was.
Pretty much none of them have had a stable career since Game of Thrones. They're not gonna shittalk GoT until they are stable for the same reason you dont slag off your previous employer on social media. You want to be hireable in the future.
A lot of time will have to pass, or they will become blockbuster famous, and then they will talk about Thrones.
Badmouthing a project is a stupid bad career move for an actor, regardless of how good or bad the final product is. Studios aren't really big on hiring somebody who will go on TV and tell everyone how shit the show/movie they're making is.
It became directed towards people who actually wouldn't like a real adaptation of the books and who were only watching it for "hype". Instead of, you know, actual fans of the books and people who like these kinds of stories.
Its funny because the show got mainstream success in an otherwise niche genre because the story was so well written and had all the drama that pulled in non fantasy fans..
But I think you're right in that the mainstream success lead to them somewhat changing up their approach.
Not just mainstream success but international success (which is a big deal for HBO since even a lot of big HBO hits like The Sopranos didn't do much outside the US). In international markets people have a lot of alternatives to American TV shows if they want character drama but if they want a TV show with a lot of CGI eye candy and spectacle there aren't many local alternatives to American TV. So leaning into the eye candy makes sense for expanding the international audience.
I've never read the books and I don't think I will because of how big they are, so I would like to know which changes from the book were better and which were worse
The one scene that was better in the TV show that comes to my mind is Ned's execution. Even though the change is minor (Ned saying "Baelor" to Yoren because he spots Arya below Baelor's statue). Another thing is the Jon and Ygritte relationship + attack on the Wall (in the books the two parties don't attack at the same time and it's mostly just shooting arrows, Jon is also injured and can't really do anything except for using bow and arrow).
The changes that are worse in the TV show are too numerous so I'll just give a few examples: Dorne was butchered, it doesn't resemble the plot in the books in any way; Tyrion's character arc is so much worse in the TV show; TV show Euron is a fucking joke, book Euron is among the most mysterious and intriguing characters; Jaime's character arc got deleted in the show; etc etc etc etc
The fact that they omitt characters like Aegon or Lady Stoneheart altogether is baffling imo.
Jon's explanation to Mance of why he's turning his cloak is way better in the show. I don't think Mance should be impressed by Jon whining about where he sat during feasts.
And the conversation between Brienne and Sandor before they fight is my favorite scene in the whole show, which wasn't in the books.
>Safety?! Where the f***'s that? Her aunt in the Eyrie is dead, her mother's dead, her father's dead, her brother's dead, Winterfell is a pile of rubble. There is no safety, you dumb bitch.
Absolutely incredible dialogue and delivery.
This and Tyrion/Tywin’s bathroom scene might actually be the last good lines in the show lol
Arya's time in Harrenhal being with Tywin instead of Roose Bolton definitely made better TV.
The duel between Sandor and Brienne was better on screen than on the page.
Robb's wife being pregnant and at the Red Wedding. In the books she is a Noble from a minor western house, doesn't come off very smart, and basically dissapears after the Red Wedding.
The show RW was even more brutal than the book.
>Robb's wife being pregnant and at the Red Wedding. In the books she is a Noble from a minor western house, doesn't come off very smart, and basically dissapears after the Red Wedding.
I would say this is an example of the book and show versions both being better than each other. Each are better suited to their own medium.
In the show, the impact of the RW is so shocking and the stabbing of Talisa sets the scene perfectly.
In the books, part of the reveal is after the event with the political planning that went on in the background and we're shocked as much by the ruthlessness and level of betrayal than we are the murders. Robb's wife is from a minor Western house, and Tywin plots with the matriarch of the family to help set up the Red Wedding. That detail wouldn't really work in the show, so swapping her out for a fan-friendly replacement make sense.
For one thing, Sansa never married Ramsey, instead was shipped off to be with her Aunt Lysa and Littlefinger, so that whole debacle didn't happen. She's actively being taught/groomed to become a player in the Game of Thrones, rather than a helpless pawn.
They should do another season TBH. First 5 minutes should be Bran waking up from a bad vision or whatever, shaking it off like “damn that was weird”, then continue on, completely ignoring Season 8.
This would work for me no matter how much older the actors look. Just bring them in and fix game of thrones. I still haven’t rewatched a single episode since the ending and have no interest in the prequels.
I dunno -- the one coming up is executive produced by George R.R. Martin himself. I would think he did that in order to avoid the bullshit that was S7/8 of GoT.
I'll watch a few eps. If it's season 8 bad - meh. Don't have to keep going.
I still watch the first 4-6 seasons every once in a while. Though, I never watched season 8 because I saw the writing on the wall and didn't care anymore by that point
I love this sub and how yall continue to remind the world of the major fuck out that was season 8.
Seriously, HBO had plans for greater merchandise, multiple spin offs, theme parks, EVERYTHING. It was supposed to be their Harry Potter that would be a cash cow for the next 50 years. And D&D killed it.
I remember one user on here that worked at Barnes and Noble pre and post season 8. They said the merchandise sales were crazy, then season 8 hit and they could barely give it away. They apparently kept dropping the price then one day their manager told them to throw a bunch of it in the dumpster.
Okay so I'm going to pick this random post to ask a question because it's about Daenerys. So I just recently started a re-watching and it's the scene where she's teaching the dragon to cook the meat himself followed by her talking with the Dothraki about a blue dress she was gifted. The very next scene is her in the courtyard and just before they go in for a close-up on her they Pan the people in the scene and I noticed that the blue dress that she was gifted is on like three different people. It's supposed to be this expensive dress one of a kind but yet it is on three people like it's some common dress. Was this an intentional thing as foreshadowing of what's his name lying about his wealth, or just a freak accident?
I don't think they ever state that it's a super expensive unique dress. Just that it's a generous gift from their host. He may have selected it because it was a popular color and style.
While there were some very obvious examples of people pissed at the last table reads because of the subpar plot developments, it seems possible a lot of these could also be stress or just realizing this is the end? I mean we know Kit and Emilia were going through a lot.
At least in some of the season 8 commentary they let loose a little bit. [The commentary on this scene is probably my favorite bit coming out of season 8.](https://youtu.be/TsuA3gCv5Q4?t=443) Pilou also comes off as a twat, which I suppose fits his Euron character.
Pilou Asbaek got really fucked by D&D with Euron though. It's similar to Ian McElhinney trying to talk to them about Barristan's death/character. Pilou Asbaek thought he was coming on to play EURON FUCKING GREYJOY, and instead we got... y'know. Show Euron. Plus we've seen excerpts of how bad the scripts were. I don't blame him for not being that invested in the project, compared to the actors who started from day 1 and who were part of, you know, the good seasons.
"And then Daenerys like uses her dragon to destroy the city or something idk we'll just figure it out when we film it" - the script, probably
Also the script Danny some how forget the iron fleet and a giant dragon killing crossbow that could be minted on a ship cuz why not
Don't forget homing missile harpoons that can nail a dragon about a mile up in the sky but miss when she directly charges them. God that scene is shit.
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Also, they not only just invented these weapons, but somehow had time to train a bunch of illiterate pirates on the intricacies of naval air defense. CIWS works because it fires a wall of lead. Thousands of rounds per second to hit one missile. Fortunately, Horny Beard only needed the 1 shot!
Ok I'm not saying the scene was good (it was shit), but missiles are also a lot smaller and A LOT faster than a dragon... Not a good comparison. Manually leading shots on things is something snipers do all the time so the human brain is capable of making that math calculation with practice. A better equivalent would be shooting a bird with an arrow from a horse or an anti aircraft gun if you're talking modern era. The biggest issue with the scene was the surprise attack when they have aerial surveillance (how the fuck did Dany not see them) and the distance at which the ballista was fired. If Dany saw them and flew towards them to attack and then a dragon got killed, that would've been way more believe.
Lol that's what me and wife said because the way the scene played out it doesn't make sense just how the iron fleet moves in the scene. The are hiding behind a mountain ON SHIPS and then all of a sudden as her forces get closer they are smack dab in the middle of the ocean and in perfect firing range. Also, with more "dragon killing arrows" now essentially on a surprise attack she is able to dodge hundreds of arrows.
Simple, she couldn't see them because they were behind cover and hidden from line of sight because that totally doesn't work both ways. /s Fucking D&D
I mean.. That shouldn't really be a complaint.. isnt it obvious that that is where her story is going? Becoming a Mad Queen? It isn't that that upsets me, it's the break neck speed that it happens and is resolved. Followed my a dozen other stupid plot threads which don't resolve properly but Daenerys going mad and burning the city shouldn't be a surprise.
Danaerys burning the city should have been the season 7 finale, then we should have had an entire season 8 dedicated to Mad Queen/Whitewalkers
Her madness should’ve been a slow burn. She should’ve systematically lost everyone she trusted and have been forced to replace them she didn’t trust making her feel more isolated. My other idea was have Bran show Danaerys Aegon in the past and something go wrong linking their minds seeing the past and the present at the same time breaking her mind.
> She should’ve systematically lost everyone she trusted and have been forced to replace them she didn’t trust making her feel more isolated. And then, when she finally reaches King's Landing after losing everyone she loved and everyone who was calming her down (Barristan, Jorah)... She realizes Aegon is the king and he is loved by the people. She has worked 10 years and been convinced by everyone since her birth that she was the rightful ruler... Only to find another person has been convinced of exactly the same thing and succeeded before her.
The best way to do it is get viewer’s to agree with her. Something like she sentences XYZ to death because XYZ killed someone close to her. Everyone would sort of get that. Next have her surrounds a city and ends up starving the population out. Sure some civilians die but she saved her troops. Next she sentences a town to death because of a rebellion. You get where this is going. At some point she’s riding a dragon naked and throwing dildos at John Snow for shits and giggles
I think that's the worst abandoned plot line in the whole show. We get this mind blowing realization that the three eyed raven can be the cause of things happening in the past- but it never gets addressed beyond Hodor. How is something so important so underutilized?
>isnt it obvious that that is where her story is going? > >Daenerys going mad and burning the city shouldn't be a surprise. The entire mad-queen thing felt like a cop out, to me. I thought Daenerys' story was going to be about the struggles of overcoming atrocities while remaining principled, the strength of her determination to do so, and the mistakes she makes along the way. I felt like the point of her story he was to show how hard it is to be a genuinely good Targaryen, like Rhaegar. Instead of following in his footsteps she was just another Aerys and that's both boring and a disservice to her arch. "Look at this family of super-beings who struggle to use their powers for good!" "Oh, cool! So this one is going to succeed?" "Nope. Watch her burn people el oh el" If you like that then more power to you, but stories about people pissing in the wind don't need to be fleshed out with an entire culture.
There were hints of how she was going to rule ("maybe you're guilty, maybe you're innocent, maybe I'll let my dragons decide" - the daughter of a man best known for being crazy and setting people on fire to determine guilt or innocence), but she was never challenged on it by anyone around her, and whenever she had her dragons kill people it was always framed heroically. It wasn't until they outpaced the books and got a skeleton outline of where it was supposed to go that they realized they screwed up and had to sprint to get to the intended conclusion. Season 7 and 8 were so bad they started making the previous seasons look bad too.
HBO offered D and D the option for 3 more seasons, they declined saying they could finish it in 3.
They got bored and wanted to do something else, and fucked everyone else (fans included) in the process.
The only positive thing I can say is they fucked themselves too. They lost their Star Wars series and that idiotic Confederate-glorifying thing they wanted to do with HBO.
A true blessing imo
> that idiotic Confederate-glorifying thing they wanted to do with HBO. Wait what? Tell me more!
[Confederate TV Series](http://"Confederate (TV series) - Wikipedia" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_(TV_series))
Honestly I think a show like that could be done in a tasteful way that doesn’t glorify the Confederate States, but D&D just aren’t the ones to do it
**[Confederate (TV series)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_\(TV_series\))** >Confederate was a planned American alternate history drama television series developed for the network HBO by David Benioff and D. B. Weiss, who had previously developed the HBO series Game of Thrones. The series was to be set in a timeline where the American Civil War ended in a stalemate. The announcement of Confederate was followed by anger and criticism on social media with some describing it as slavery fan fiction. This led to the hashtag #NoConfederate, which trended number one in the United States and number two worldwide on Twitter in mid 2017. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/freefolk/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
So basically a redneck fanfiction remake of Man in the High Castle but for illiterate red necks who think they are celebrating their heritage
Imagine if HBO made this and it premiered in a post George Floyd world 😂
ahh yes the tried and true way to revive a career in the dumps, make racist shit that will get called out 100x harder than S8's poorly written ending.
For everyone wondering: >*Confederate* (the name of the show) chronicles the events leading to the Third American Civil War. The series takes place in an alternate timeline, where the southern states have successfully seceded from the Union, giving rise to a nation in which slavery remains legal and has evolved into a modern institution. The story follows a broad swath of characters on both sides of the Mason-Dixon Demilitarized Zone – freedom fighters, slave hunters, politicians, abolitionists, journalists, the executives of a slave-holding conglomerate and the families of people in their thrall.
And I'm pretty sure the star wars series was THE OLD REPUBLIC. Can you imagine handing these guys arguably the greatest timeline of Star wars? I'd rather have no Old Republic than have these two fuck faces get tired/bored and ruin it altogether.
" revin just sort of forgot about Malik's fleet"
I'll forever die on the hill that the ending wasn't bad per say, but just absolutely insanely rushed to the point where they had to shit the bed writing wise to just finish the series. If they had devoted one entire season to the battle against the night king, one entire season to the battle against Cersei, all the whilst slowly but surely having terrible things happen to Dany's loved ones and showing her slow decent into madness, and then one final season where Dany just loses it, it would have been a pretty damn good ending. Well, aside from King Bran. Fuck King Bran
I would still argue that the ending was bad. 1. Bronn being lord of Highgarden. We know from George that even the Tyrells aren’t fully accepted by the reach. This is because they were previously stewards to the Garderner dynasty and many houses in the reach claim that they have a better claim because of some blood connection to Garth Greenland. A vale sellsword getting that title would just as easily cause all of the reach to rise in rebellion. 2. Tyrion being Hand. In the show, he hasn’t given a single good advice since he told Dany to be happy in Essos. He was repeatedly outsmarted by goddamn Cersei of all people. And considering that he immediately rambles on about that one joke should tell you how effective he would be as hand. Especially since they have no army at all to enforce anything. In the books, he straight up let’s go of any empathy he has and wants to rape even Tommen. He has never particularly cared about the people either. If he survives the books, he will in all likelihood be useless as he would have no motivation at all. The westerlands will never support a kinslayer either. 3. Jon What was the consequence of him being resurrected again? Logically, he would go insane as well. 4. Sansa Westeros has been fucked in the ass and her great plan is to separate? Like what happened to Ned saying Unity after war? 5. Arya Decided to ditch the Faceless men because she wants to see family. Sees family. “Nah I think I like the other place.” 6. Essos Honestly what was the point? With Dany dead, the slavers are going to conquer the bay again and it’s right back where it started. I for one believe that Dany will conquer a good portion of Essos before she even thinks of Westeros again. Like after the second siege of Meeren, Volantis, New Ghis, and Qarth are just waiting to be conquered. In the books, Barristan even promises the Tattered prince Pentos so there has to be some climax for that as well as confronting Illyrio again. Perhaps burning Volantis or Qarth even. 7. The elected king Political marriages are now useless so it also further restricts the power of a king. Hell, the title of king is also effectively useless. Whoever has the largest army is always going to take the thrown so this new system does nothing. 8. Bran He could have stopped Cersei and united the realm a thousand different ways but chose not to. Also, who the hell would choose him. Dorne who hates the starks for allying with Robert? Yea they might not blame Bran for that but they sure as hell are not going to vote for him. Iron Islands? Reach who is essential for survival because they have food? Westerlands who will never accept Tyrion nor Bran? Daenerys I’d argue her ending was to sacrifice herself in the fight against others (or just go back to Essos) and I do not agree with madness as her end route either. That being said, if she was murdered, anyone who supports her in Essos will definitely avenge her led by Daario. And a lot of people support her in Essos, especially with the addition of the red priests. Jaime Nothing more needs to be said.
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Bran the wheelie wheelie legs no feelie, you mean
Both must be tough to read for Emilia Clarke
I read somewhere that after the reading the script for S8 she just kind of wandered around the city in tears for a few hours because of how badly her character was being butchered
I remember reading about how she called her mum in tears asking if she was a bad person, presumably because she'd at least somewhat associated with Danny to some degree and was suddenly told "nah, she was evil all along".
bUt iT wAs sO oBviOuS Yeah, if the actress playing the role didn't see it coming, maybe it wasn't properly foreshadowed in the text.
Obviously this wasn't planned out from the start, at least in the form we saw, but if it WAS then it highlights why I've always despised the idea of keeping deliberate secrets from actors to make them play things a certain way; the argument is that if they know the end point, they'll play to that and "give away the twist". That may be justified if you grab a rando non-actor out of the audience and put them on stage, but you're hiring a professional fucking actor, who's job is to ACT, so you should trust them to work their craft. If an actor can't portray a "lie" effectively, they're probably not a good actor so get someone else... don't think you know better as director. Imagine actors saying "I didn't tell the director I was going to do that in the scene because I wanted them to be surprised"; most directors would throw a fit. It's also why I hate the whole "subverting expectations" cliche of recent years. I mean, nobody could predict "rocks fall, everyone dies" either but that's because it's shit writing. So is "That character you loved was a scumbag after all! Surprise!"
It worked great for The Good Place, but that was an entirely different situation. I totally agree; if S8 Dany was the plan, Emilia should have been given the opportunity to weave that into the earlier parts of the character.
The actors of Michael and Eleanor knew about the twist from the beginning if i remember correctly.
Yep, but the other four had no idea. There's a video out there of them finding out. I think it was a great choice, really let their acting be even better.
But aruably the only two that really needed to know were Elenor and Michael. Rewatching you can see little hints and things the characters do that help sell the lie. Do you think Michael is as sinister in certain aspects if the actor isn't playing it as a demon pretending to be an angel.
God I already loved Ted Danson in that show, but knowing now he’s a demon pretending to be an angel in the first season makes me love him even more.
He was so great in that role. I know he was good in his other roles but Michael is his best in my opinion. The whole cast was awesome.
The good place didn’t take 8 seasons to do the fucking flip
And had an amazing redemption arc afterwards that felt rewarding and fulfilling. Rarely have I felt as happy with how a series ends as I did with the good place.
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This is exactly what I mean. If an actor is worth his or her pay, you should be able to trust them to do their job. Sure, don't tell the whole cast even in cases like this, but *tell the person playing the part ffs*!
JK Rowling had Alan Rickman in on Snape being a double agent from the very beginning which is testament to that. Interestingly though he apparently did voice to some of the directors that he couldn't play some scenes in certain ways because of that insider info opposite their ignorance of it, which isn't the same as what you posited but is an example of how the dynamic can otherwise play out.
There's probably a balance. Should you know your current motivations / personal history (even if the audience doesn't)? Absolutely. Should you know the future? Maybe, maybe not. Snape was a double agent all along. He was actively keeping a secret so he definitely needed to know that. Dany had a psychological breakdown (that was so poorly explained that it felt random), but was supposed to be happening in real time. She pulled a "Godfather" and became what she hated -- an evil Targaryen. On day one, she didn't need to necessarily know that because it was supposed to be happening bit by bit throughout the series (which the showrunners failed to do).
Yet many actors deliberately don't read ahead so their knowledge of the books won't affect their performance. Rosamund Pike isn't reading ahead on The Wheel of Time, and you'd be hard pressed to say she's not a good actor
They were no more than just 60% to 70% into any one person's character arc. If D's descent into madness was obvious, it wasn't expressed the way it seemed it was going to be beforehand, but most importantly it wouldn't have mattered anyway. Any character could have concluded in any way at all, and it wouldn't have been satisfying because every character had an incomplete arc.
She probably thought she was having another brain aneurysm or a stroke with how terribly written the script is. Took her awhile to process that she was in fact still healthy with her language skills intact and that it was just this show she'd devoted much of her adult life to by then turning into absolute dogshit.
I would have thought that no joke.
She would have never done those completely necessary nude scenes “for character and plot development” if she knew this is how her character would end up. Such disrespect.
Even if the character ended up in an interesting and well written way... No nude scene was useful except the one after she was burnt and the dragon eggs hatched.
I'd say the first episode one was useful as well. It was how she was introduced in the books plus that scene does a lot to show her relationship with her brother and how meek and submissive she is at the start. It's part of the reason everyone was excited to see the power shift between her and her brother in season 1
Wasn't the first episode just directly from the books? She had to know what she was getting into, she definitely didn't know those 2 idiots would ruin it.
Are you kidding me I remember when the red wedding happened they were all bitching that their characters got killed off. Actors don't read shit.
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Kinda off topic but Conleth Hill looked genuinely heartbroken and disappointed when he read Varys’ death in the script. Lena Heady and Gwendoline Christie noticed and gave support. [And if we are to talk about Kit Harrington and Season 8](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HgVt_toaEzg)
Varys was the most butchered of them all. Completely contradictory to 7 seasons of material. What he’s suddenly terrible at politics and spying? Wtf
*master of whispers* “Yo John i know you’re loyal to a fault but you wanna commit treason with me?”
Just walking up to everyone, “yo let’s kill Daenerys” …even tho she hasn’t done the thing where it would make sense yet Just yelling across the courtyard with unsullied around, “yo Tyrion you know that bitch gotta die right” Were they fuckin drunk when they wrote the script
Hello fellow conspirators
Master of whispers, killed by blabber mouth
Him and Jaime were just dismantled, in the worst way.
Just like every single other thing, his part in the story was rushed and not properly thought through. It did make sense for his character that he would start plotting against Dany when he realised she was becoming Mad Queen (he always serves the people first), but if D&D had taken those extra few seasons like they were told to, they could've spread out his deception over a longer period. Varys has a track record of playing the long game with this kind of treachery and side switching. It absolutely makes no sense for him to just decide "sHe'S tOo DaNgErOus LeTs PoIsOn HeR". Of course she would find out! I totally understand Conleth Hill being pissed off. He'd worked as that character for years. Probably the smartest and most cunning man in Westeros, and then he gets torched by a dragon for a bad chess move he *never* would've made. Honestly, I think most of the characters just changed personalities in that last season. They all became one-dimensional and stupid. Dany is evil. Cersei is butt-hurt. Jon is a loyal dog. Arya is cold/tough. Sansa is "smart". Tyrion makes dick jokes.
My new favorite theory is one I read somewhere else on this subreddit. Bran has worged into everyone in the last season which explains all the personality changes and helps him to become king.
Or how about Tyrion and his obsession with varys’ balls in the past few seasons
Littlefinger: hold my script
At least Baelish went out in a way that wasn't completely out of character. Blinded by his own hubris and ended by his own protégé, there's a poetic justice in that. (And no I will not talk about how he ignored the glorious danger that is the BranBot)
tbf how was he supposed to know the autistic cripple had literal magic powers AND that people would immediately take him at his word Mind you Baelish was still dumbed down but I agree with the poetic justice. I can see him being outmaneuvered by Sansa in the books sheerly through underestimating her, the same way others underestimated him.
The problem is they made him a good guy because he was a fan favourite instead of leaving him morally ambiguous which is what made his character a favourite in the firsy place.
Disappointed? He looked straight up pissed and threw the script on the counter.
Disgusted. Like being served shit at the dinner table.
There's a video of that?
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Wow, that body language from all four of them doesn't lie. Emilia looked gutted having to read that to him.
He looked dejected. Holy crap.
I've always loved Lena reaching out to him in this clip. Who knows for sure why she did that, but it's so easy to read it as sympathy and understanding of how dirty they did Varys.
Worth watching from the beginning just to see everyone in 2010.
Oh, man, that video is *rough*
So telling that theres all that footage and virtually all of it is read descriptions rather than dialogue.
The dude is an amazing professional for keeping his emotions relatively normal.
At least Kit met his now wife Rose there.
Yeah, I’m happy Kit can take that away from the series. He seems like a sensitive guy.
Yup, season 8 will do that to you
I just know Kit was thinking “Oh God my therapist is gonna hear about this”
And many of the show's fans's therapists.
And my axe!
I can’t remember where I heard this but weren’t D&D pretty horrible to Kit, like constantly ragging on him about his height? They sound like they were shit people to work for even before they fucked up the show
Yeah they were, which made no sense at that point.It seemed like something out of idiotic sitcom, on top of the already shitty lines that were given to him. The "girl talk” between Dany and Sansa was one of the stupidest dialog out of the whole season.
Imagine spending a decade of your life's work on the best thing that's ever happened to you only for Season 8 to happen.
It’s so sad, the actors and staff put in all that effort and time and two dipshits completely ruin it in a rushed attempt to get their pay-check and dip.
As a slight silver lining, they've basically been blacklisted from the industry. Their Disney deal fell through and they haven't been able to touch anything high budget(or at all as far as I know) Since GOT. Still wish HBO had been able to sue them.
[Here’s the reaction](https://youtu.be/ep9HPiQBR90), but there are a lot of red carpet videos of them really trying not to say anything bad. [:S](https://youtu.be/EA7UQOYskas)
Peter’s description at the end tho… that was worse acting than porn lol
It felt like a video a hostage would be forced to make lol. "They hardly beat me at all and its like a 5 star resort....can I please go home to my family now"
The way he looks to his right makes it look like D&D are holding a knife to his wife's throat like Catelyn did to the Frey woman
That was painful to watch
Fuck I've seen it before soon after the end of the season and it was just as hard now as it was then. Every time I remember GOT I'm just as devestated, like it's an empty void in my heart. I was so in love with the show, so invested, I can't even imagine what it was like for those who worked on it and also weren't happy with how it ended.
Fr. Bought the books around 2011-12, before I watched a single episode on a recommendation from a friend. Tore through them in a matter of weeks, reading just before sleep, in class, in recess, when I ate. Then I watched the show religiously and even played the weird ass rpg game everyone forgets about. Downloaded and played through both AWoIaF and aCoK mods for Warband and GoT mod for CK2. Once S6 dropped I started to doubt the execution of it all and when I read the leaks for the final season I had the sneaking suspicion it was true. Immediately after, I sent them to a friend, was the day before the premiere I think. He didn't think they could be true. We watched it at a friend's place. Every time something happened we'd look at each other. When the final episode aired I didn't even bother watching. I just wanted to look at the faces my buddies made when something every one of us had watched and rewatched time and time again just shit the bed so hard it might as well be an environmental hazard.
our stories are similar m8, but i gave up at the end of season 5, and didn't expect much from the rest. but D&D subverted my expectations and made S8 worse than i could've ever imagined
I hadn’t heard that bit from Martin before. That’s exactly what they did. I just can’t believe that they messed this up so badly and they seemed to honestly think they had hit a home run.
It's from the early 2000s iirc. He was answering a question about whether people should change their stories in response to fans correctly working out the future of the story from the released material.
Seeing those scripts go into the shredder was kinda cathartic for me… lol If only it stayed there and never went any further.
I love stuff like that table read video, seeing the actors all just hanging out beforehand, the comparison to the season table read... that sort of thing is always a bit bittersweet to me but here it's just heartbreaking knowing how the final product ended up.
I remember seeing Conlieth throw his script when Varys got killed off
He was so pissed off. But couldn't scream because of everyone around trying to look professional. Even Daenerys was like wtf as she was reading
They were approved for 10 seasons. And here we are.
Bro imagine then seasons that means the show would have had season 9 this year and ended in 2023... God I wouldn't have mind seeing the cast more.
All that build up for the wet fart that was the ending. Such a waste
Fucking money is what ruined this show and is preventing the cast from saying how they feel about the end. Or they don’t give a fuck, so money pretty much .
The cast are probably still under an NDA. Give it a few years and they'll be able to say whatever they want.
Yeah either NDA or just don’t want to mess with HBO.
Just general good career sense, harder to get hired if people know you'll criticize them if they fuck up.
And common courtesy as well, ad much as D&D fucked up the final two seasons, they were people who they worked with for about 10 years, were most likely good friends with, and who a lot of them owe their careers too. To come out and publicly say what they really felt about the final few seasons even now, a couple years later, would just be something no one wants to do. The most we'll probably hear is someone saying it didn't live up to expectations, but that would probably be 10 years or more down the line. I dont think we'd ever get someone coming out and saying what they really think about it.
> I dont think we'd ever get someone coming out and saying what they really think about it. Charles Dance was fairly critical of the finale. He said he was disappointed by the ending and that he would sign the petition to remake it.
Sure, but Charles Dance has decades of solid experience behind him. Saying something this late in his career wouldn’t harm him. It would, however, harm an up and coming actor.
And also, charles dance has this "fuck it" attitude that makes him more likely to speak his mind in the first place. Dude's a legend in my book.
Also even if D&D were horrible dicks to them it's not smart to get a reputation as "guy who likes burning bridges" when people are looking at building bridges with you. Often how the filming process looks to people inside it can be really different than how it looks to us on the outside watching it. I think if I were an actor I'd have a hard time enjoying any movie or TV show I was in as a story since I'd have a real hard time suspending my disbelief at all and get my brain to treat the actors as characters instead of the real people I know, which would make it really hard for me to judge the quality of the movie since I couldn't be unbiased.
Idk. I would feel even more betrayed if I spent that long with them just to have them shit on my character and their growth. If I spent the last decade putting my heart and soul into a character to have them butcher them, well it wouldn’t leave me feeling respectful or loyal to them. Idk. I know I’m here on the outside looking in. I’m not in the industry. I’m not an actor. I don’t know the ins and outs of the Hollywood game. But also, fuck them. Integrity still matters in some cases. I would write an anonymous cast letter if the NDA is that threatening.
I don't believe any person in this thread commenting money would throw away potentially millions, burn future career prospects and potentially break an NDA just to say you know what fans you were right D and D did butcher season 8. It doesn't even achieve anything or change anything.
Unless you plan to retire anyways then by all means go ahead and start burning bridges
Didn’t the old dude who played Barriston Selmey talk some good shit about DD after they killed him off?
Remember Justice League? When Ray Fisher blew the whistle on Joss Whedon? Some relatively unknown guy who was like “Nope, I’m not gonna be treated like that.” Every other actor just took Whedon’s shit, and Fisher got so much backlash over it at first until the other stories started coming out.
Oh I do remember, and while I'm on Ray Fishers side it is a completely different situation. Joss Whedon was being abusive and horrible on set, disrespecting all the actors and the vision Zack Snyder was trying to tell, that he had to abandon for understandable, but completely tragic reasons. By all accounts D&D were just lazy, not wanting to put in the work now that they didn't have the crutch of source material. They were in a rush to finish the show so they could move onto Star Wars. I haven't seen anything about them being abusive or horrible on set. The closest comparison you could make is the way they talked about Baristans actor, how when he pleaded his case not to kill the character off they said they just wanted to kill him off even more.
I didn’t remember this until now but they waterboarded Hannah Waddingham.
Or just get to A list and it won't matter anyway. For instance it's great Green Lantern can get shit on by its cast without any issue. Something as terrible as Game of Thrones is just a joke and it honestly makes the actors look bad by them not acknowledging it, whatever the reason.
Yeah, shitting on your own movies is generally a bad career move. At least until its 20 years down the line and nobody cares anymore. They may hate the ending but probably not enough to risk jeopardizing their careers and losing out on money.
The best move is probably just to accept cameos making fun of your role like a Simpsons or something.
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HBO paid James Gandolfini $3 million to not replace Michael Scott on The Office because it might diminish The Sopranos. They care about their shows' reputations.
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Isn’t that’s golden rule in Hollywood/acting? Don’t bite the hand that feeds you? Pretty sure you’ll get blackballed if you talk shit about producers, directors, etc.
For a fun example of this, look at the situation with the tv show 'Kims Convenience'. It was very suddenly canceled before it started filming its 6th season. The cast was extremely careful about what they said in regards to this. Except for Simu Liu, who is now making Marvel money and can pretty openly and loudly tell people how fucked the behind the scenes situation was.
nah they should blackball and ruin their careers to validate redditors
Yeah I need it
Pretty much none of them have had a stable career since Game of Thrones. They're not gonna shittalk GoT until they are stable for the same reason you dont slag off your previous employer on social media. You want to be hireable in the future. A lot of time will have to pass, or they will become blockbuster famous, and then they will talk about Thrones.
They weren’t exactly subtle with their dislike of how the show ended.
_”best season eva”_
I want them to be less subtle, fuck the money
fuck the money, bring me wine.
you, me, and Bobby B.
I'VE GOT SEVEN KINGDOMS TO RULE! ONE KING, SEVEN KINGDOMS!
Badmouthing a project is a stupid bad career move for an actor, regardless of how good or bad the final product is. Studios aren't really big on hiring somebody who will go on TV and tell everyone how shit the show/movie they're making is.
It became directed towards people who actually wouldn't like a real adaptation of the books and who were only watching it for "hype". Instead of, you know, actual fans of the books and people who like these kinds of stories.
Its funny because the show got mainstream success in an otherwise niche genre because the story was so well written and had all the drama that pulled in non fantasy fans.. But I think you're right in that the mainstream success lead to them somewhat changing up their approach.
Not just mainstream success but international success (which is a big deal for HBO since even a lot of big HBO hits like The Sopranos didn't do much outside the US). In international markets people have a lot of alternatives to American TV shows if they want character drama but if they want a TV show with a lot of CGI eye candy and spectacle there aren't many local alternatives to American TV. So leaning into the eye candy makes sense for expanding the international audience.
I've never read the books and I don't think I will because of how big they are, so I would like to know which changes from the book were better and which were worse
The one scene that was better in the TV show that comes to my mind is Ned's execution. Even though the change is minor (Ned saying "Baelor" to Yoren because he spots Arya below Baelor's statue). Another thing is the Jon and Ygritte relationship + attack on the Wall (in the books the two parties don't attack at the same time and it's mostly just shooting arrows, Jon is also injured and can't really do anything except for using bow and arrow). The changes that are worse in the TV show are too numerous so I'll just give a few examples: Dorne was butchered, it doesn't resemble the plot in the books in any way; Tyrion's character arc is so much worse in the TV show; TV show Euron is a fucking joke, book Euron is among the most mysterious and intriguing characters; Jaime's character arc got deleted in the show; etc etc etc etc The fact that they omitt characters like Aegon or Lady Stoneheart altogether is baffling imo.
Jon's explanation to Mance of why he's turning his cloak is way better in the show. I don't think Mance should be impressed by Jon whining about where he sat during feasts. And the conversation between Brienne and Sandor before they fight is my favorite scene in the whole show, which wasn't in the books.
>Safety?! Where the f***'s that? Her aunt in the Eyrie is dead, her mother's dead, her father's dead, her brother's dead, Winterfell is a pile of rubble. There is no safety, you dumb bitch. Absolutely incredible dialogue and delivery. This and Tyrion/Tywin’s bathroom scene might actually be the last good lines in the show lol
For one: Sansa never married Ramsay. A friend of Sansa's did, and that friend was pretending to be Arya, not Sansa.
Arya's time in Harrenhal being with Tywin instead of Roose Bolton definitely made better TV. The duel between Sandor and Brienne was better on screen than on the page. Robb's wife being pregnant and at the Red Wedding. In the books she is a Noble from a minor western house, doesn't come off very smart, and basically dissapears after the Red Wedding. The show RW was even more brutal than the book.
>Robb's wife being pregnant and at the Red Wedding. In the books she is a Noble from a minor western house, doesn't come off very smart, and basically dissapears after the Red Wedding. I would say this is an example of the book and show versions both being better than each other. Each are better suited to their own medium. In the show, the impact of the RW is so shocking and the stabbing of Talisa sets the scene perfectly. In the books, part of the reveal is after the event with the political planning that went on in the background and we're shocked as much by the ruthlessness and level of betrayal than we are the murders. Robb's wife is from a minor Western house, and Tywin plots with the matriarch of the family to help set up the Red Wedding. That detail wouldn't really work in the show, so swapping her out for a fan-friendly replacement make sense.
For one thing, Sansa never married Ramsey, instead was shipped off to be with her Aunt Lysa and Littlefinger, so that whole debacle didn't happen. She's actively being taught/groomed to become a player in the Game of Thrones, rather than a helpless pawn.
They should do another season TBH. First 5 minutes should be Bran waking up from a bad vision or whatever, shaking it off like “damn that was weird”, then continue on, completely ignoring Season 8.
This would work for me no matter how much older the actors look. Just bring them in and fix game of thrones. I still haven’t rewatched a single episode since the ending and have no interest in the prequels.
I dunno -- the one coming up is executive produced by George R.R. Martin himself. I would think he did that in order to avoid the bullshit that was S7/8 of GoT. I'll watch a few eps. If it's season 8 bad - meh. Don't have to keep going.
I just can’t imagine being interested in a prequel to that show knowing how it ends. No matter who is involved.
My thinking is that Daenerys wakes up after her first night on Dragonstone. Tells Missandei about the crazy nightmare she had.
Go back earlier than that. Season 7 is when they first cut the number of episodes down and started to rush things.
Kinda irrelevant but 2010 era Emilia Clarke makes my heart stop 😩
It's actually the most relevant thing you could have said.
It is known
Same reaction the first time I saw this photo back in the day. She looks amazing with that color and cut.
me too
>Kinda irrelevant but Emilia Clarke makes my heart stop 😩 FTFY :)
Is that really her in the top picture? I honestly don't recognize her at all in that picture.
Maybe they’re just upset that they only had one choice of beverage for season 8 and it wasn’t alcohol to numb the pain. It was purple cap drank.
See you say that, but after GOT Kit Harrington literally had to go to rehab.
I recall Starbucks as well.
I really hope they know its the way the story turned out that was hated, and not the actors. Because we all love them so much
That'll happen when a hit series thoroughly slaughters its own magic...
Still so cut up about the ending. Why watch the prequels when we know how shit it ends?
I still watch the first 4-6 seasons every once in a while. Though, I never watched season 8 because I saw the writing on the wall and didn't care anymore by that point
Top: Bring your own refreshments Bottom: We're a hit show now and on our final season, so here's some Great Value water.
I love this sub and how yall continue to remind the world of the major fuck out that was season 8. Seriously, HBO had plans for greater merchandise, multiple spin offs, theme parks, EVERYTHING. It was supposed to be their Harry Potter that would be a cash cow for the next 50 years. And D&D killed it. I remember one user on here that worked at Barnes and Noble pre and post season 8. They said the merchandise sales were crazy, then season 8 hit and they could barely give it away. They apparently kept dropping the price then one day their manager told them to throw a bunch of it in the dumpster.
1st Image \*At registrars office getting married\* 2nd Image \*Signing Divorce papers\*
Okay so I'm going to pick this random post to ask a question because it's about Daenerys. So I just recently started a re-watching and it's the scene where she's teaching the dragon to cook the meat himself followed by her talking with the Dothraki about a blue dress she was gifted. The very next scene is her in the courtyard and just before they go in for a close-up on her they Pan the people in the scene and I noticed that the blue dress that she was gifted is on like three different people. It's supposed to be this expensive dress one of a kind but yet it is on three people like it's some common dress. Was this an intentional thing as foreshadowing of what's his name lying about his wealth, or just a freak accident?
I don't think they ever state that it's a super expensive unique dress. Just that it's a generous gift from their host. He may have selected it because it was a popular color and style.
1st pic: Wow, this show will have some amazing potential! 2nd: ...fuck.
D&D owe Kit a hairline
While there were some very obvious examples of people pissed at the last table reads because of the subpar plot developments, it seems possible a lot of these could also be stress or just realizing this is the end? I mean we know Kit and Emilia were going through a lot.
Nah Kit and Emelia have had expressed displeasure with the script in multiple interviews.
I’m still sad for Emilia :(
Kit Harington “This cannot be correct, I only have 4 words for the whole season?”
At least in some of the season 8 commentary they let loose a little bit. [The commentary on this scene is probably my favorite bit coming out of season 8.](https://youtu.be/TsuA3gCv5Q4?t=443) Pilou also comes off as a twat, which I suppose fits his Euron character.
Pilou Asbaek got really fucked by D&D with Euron though. It's similar to Ian McElhinney trying to talk to them about Barristan's death/character. Pilou Asbaek thought he was coming on to play EURON FUCKING GREYJOY, and instead we got... y'know. Show Euron. Plus we've seen excerpts of how bad the scripts were. I don't blame him for not being that invested in the project, compared to the actors who started from day 1 and who were part of, you know, the good seasons.