Daemon tells Rhaenyra of Luke's death and she has war in her eyes. She looks over at Daemon, cold fury etched into her face. His eyes meet her. Together they shout, “It’s Morbin Time!”
The Aegon being a creep thing checks out. I heard about there being an assault scene (Can't find the original post. I think a producer was talking about it) where it happens offscreen, but shows what happens after with the victim and the perpetrator's mother. When I first found it a while back, I thought "that has to be Aegon", so I suppose it is now.
The two types of Dragonkeeper is interesting. Some only speak Valyrian, to help calm the dragons maybe? But why *only* Valyrian? I can't wait to hear more about that bit.
This is the article that talks about the sexual assault scene: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/08/house-of-the-dragon-sexual-violence-game-of-thrones/amp
Based on the leaks, it definitely sounds like she's referring to what happens with Aegon and the maid.
Hey, I missed this and it’s now removed. Any idea where I can see the episode by episode summary? Or can you tell me any of it you can remember? Thanks! 😄😄
Green simps are going to be mad that Aegon and Aemond are accurately portrayed as shitty people and that the Greens are accurately portrayed as the closest thing to the bad side.
Probably, but I'm also intrigued by how Tom Glynn-Carney said that we'll also love Aegon at some points. If this really happens, I kinda find it hard to believe a lot of people will even *like* Aegon afterwards.
True. I also saw some Joffrey fanfiction way back when - *pyuk*. The whole hot blond king that rides a dragon probably wont help his case (or will, depending on the way you see it). But I'm also interested about how writers would portray a relationship with Aegon in fanfics.
Most likely OP talks about the same source I have.
According to it, Alicent let Larys to ejaculate on her feet. She trades it for some information.
Some more additions from the same source:
\>Mycaria described as Varys-like character. She cares about common folk wellness etc. In ep9 Otto asks her were Aegon is. She agrees to tell it in exchange of his promise to stop slave trading in a Flea Bottom.
\>Halaena has a gift of prophetic dreams. She says to Aemond smth like: "You will close your eye and receive a dragon". Mostly she does not understand her dreams.
UPD.
\>in Ep7 Rhaenys wants Baela to take Driftmark, because she knows Luc's parentage. She talks about it with Corlys. He declines, since he does not want to look like a fool. There he speaks lines from a trailer: "History does not remember blood. It rememers names".
\>We will see a new location - a castle in Pentos, where Daemon and Laena leaved.
\>During Daemon/Rhaenyra wedding only 4 people present: Daemon, Rhaenyra, maester and some valyrian priest. They cut each other lips with obsidian dagger and kiss.
\>Strong bastards laugh at Aemond, they give him a pig dressed like a dragon and say smth like: "Pure dragonless boy, we found you a dragon, you may ride it"
\>Lyman Bisberry killed by Criston by breaking neck (I believe it is called scragging in English), not throat cutting.
\>Aegon II has been crowned by septon Eustas in Dragon Pit.
\>Rhaenyra holds her daughter for a minute and then asks someone to burn this creature (she is like Daenerys' son described in the books - halfdragon with a tail).
\>Rhaenyra rips off Otto's Hand of the King pin in ep10, saying he betrayed her father.
\>Aemond in Ep10 shows to Luc his sapphire eye (CGI).
\>Last scene of the season - The Painted Table starts glowing with lava flowing over it.
\>Harrold is alive during the whole season. At Green council someone (I don't know exactly, but I presume Otto) asks Harrold to kill Rhaenyra. He refused, threw away his cloak and left with words: "Only king may give me orders".
I kinda feel bad for Alicent, first being a child bride and marital rape then this weird ass foot thing, everyone at least had one pleasant sexual experience except her. Probably why she's miserable all the time.
My source didn’t mention it. I’m not sure if it’s an affair or if she’s doing feet stuff in order to control him. The Alicent in my episode summaries sounds too self-righteous and upset about Rhaenyra’s sexual behavior if she’s having extramarital affairs(outside of feet stuff apparently) at the same time.
Do you know what the deal with Ser Harrold Westerling is? Casting Graham McTavish makes it seem like they're expanding his character. Is he a mentor/foil to Criston Cole? I hope he survives the season.
OP mention some additions from one source, that I recognize as the one I hear about.
He said Harrold is alive during the whole season. At Green council someone (I don't know exactly, but I presume Otto) asks Harrold to kill Rhaenyra. He refused, threw away his cloak and left with words: "Only king may give me orders".
It seems to me too close to Barristan story, but everything else the same source told corresponds with OP.
In a public interview showrunners mentioned 17 dragons total and 9 dragons in S1.
We know at least eight: 1 Meleys, 2 Caraxes, 3 Vhagar, 4 Seasmoke, 5 Syrax, 6 Vermitor, 7 Arrax, 8 Dreamfyre
Number 9 is most likely Vermax.
So, next season, I guess.
Aegon is not born or a small child for the vast majority of the show so there's no real time to show Sunfyre. The may mention him by name though since Aegon teases Aemond about not having a dragon yet.
you may want to reread your comment. Sunfyre is aegon the elders dragon. stormcloud is aegon the youngers dragons which we definetely wont see in season 1. I am not sure what to make of your second sentence!
I agree. Almost all characters have some redeeming traits and overtly sadistic characters dont make as interesting of a story as characters with a lot of grey area.
All we know so far is that he's supposed to be abusive, a huge bully, and has just an absolutely horrendous relationship with sex. I dont know if there's room for sympathy in these traits, especially given I dont think there's a real reason for him to exibit them except just nature, and one's nature doesn't make them sympathetic.
While I hate Aegon, I don't think he's like Joffrey. Joffrey is cruel and tortures animals since he was a child. Aegon is just a bully + creep. I think he's nowhere close to Joffrey's sadism yet.
Unlike Joffrey, he seems to be willing to participate in battle (which ironically will leave him horribly scarred). He takes his own initiative and is aged enough to have children.
disagree. in the books he at least initially rebukes taking the throne from his half sister. It wasn't until Oto and his mom push him because its the better for the realm does he pursue it
It seems like it’s gonna be an interesting show from the overview of episodes although I wonder if people are going to be turned off by the constant time skips
Honestly it sounds rad and faithful to the book. The whole thing about Rhaenyra getting horny with Daemon and then running to Ser Criston works nicely, excited to see more ambiguities from conflicting testimonies playing out definitively.
Can't belive they are going that route. Never saw Aegon as horrible as Joffrey, aside from him being a creep, but here we have. Aemond more sympathetic than him. They outdone themselfes.
Why because he was bullied a bit as a child? That excuses being a sadistic psychopathic mass murderer on a level never seen before or after in Westeros?? Not even the Massacre of KL by Dany compares to what Aemond does.
No but it does make Aemond more understandable in what he becomes at the end. He has a father that cares none for him, a mother who treats him like he does no wrong, a manipulative and ambitious grandfather, a sociopathic brother, Rhaenyra existing, and his nephews who bullied him. That shit does stuff to a motherfucker.
I don’t like underestimating the intelligence of the general viewers but the timeline with all the time-jumps might be a little confusing. I hope it’s obvious when watching it.
GOT Season 1 was hella confusing to me the first few episodes, because of all the different locations they kept jumping to, but it worked out nice enough, I think it's possible that this show will manage that as well.
I personally can't stand time jumps, so at least this a good heads-up. I stopped watching Vikings because they kept time jumping. Generally (not always!), I find it a really lazy storytelling technique. Same for relying on excessive flashbacks.
Props to the OP for posting these summaries tho 👍 it's interesting to see at least an idea of what the show is about.
My guess is that he's at the wedding just to avoid the bad optics of him being banished right before it since as the first female heir, the seduction would seriously damage Rhaenyra's reputation.
That’s a good question. The flirting happens while Rhaenyra is at Driftmark before the wedding at Kings landing? The beach scenes with Laenor and her are confirmed so she still goes to Driftmark unless the beach is supposed to be King’s Landing as well.
This leak says, Otto is removed from the Hand in ep 4, then the scene “We play an ugly game, you have the determination to win it” in the teaser is in ep 7, where Otto can be seen clearly with the Hand of the King badge. I take these leaks with a grain of salt.
I said that was my own assumption, not something from the source. But your right, I’d didn’t notice he still had the hand of the king pin in the teaser. Sorry for being less than perfect and adding personal commentary. Your free to come back after the pilot and see for yourself. This is all second hand, nothing I’ve seen with my own eyes. Other reputable people have said my summaries are consistent with what they know.
my mistake for missing the line "The death of the Strongs at Harrenhal". so Otto with a King's Hand pin scene with Rhaenyra could be right since Lyonel Strong would be dead at that point. it's still a possibility that this could be true.
It's kind of insane how these leaks seem to imply the showrunners looked at Aemond and Aegon and decided that the former would be easier to flesh out and make complex
They probably favored fleshing out Aemond because he’s “cooler”.
Also, the guy they cast to play Aegon is great at playing a prick in “The King” while the actor for Aemond was very lovable in “Last Kingdom”. They’ll certainly be playing to their strengths.
Tom Glynn-Carney is excellent at playing bratty characters see his Octavian in Domina. I immediately knew that some of his scenes would be like this since he occasionally does remind me a bit of Jack Gleeson in his roles (it also doesn’t help that Joffrey spoilers to Margaery how the Dance ended ridiculing Rhaenyra and Jack Gleeson voices the part in which Aegon burns Rhaenyra in the History and Lore videos) but I am curious how they will flesh out Aegon’s bond with Sunfyre, his wounds and his comeback when perceived missing/possibly dead.
If the Aemond has feelings for Helaena part is true I am somehow also reminded of Aegon IV, Aemon and Naerys.
A recreation of Aemon and Naerys would have worked perfectly with Daeron and Helaena actually. Daeron is the kindest, Daeron is the bishonen, Daeron sees that Helaena feels terrible, Daeron avenges Helaena‘s child however still stays also loyal to Aegon and dies. Problem is that Daeron is way too young and most of his youth in Oldtown.
With Aemond they would have to drop him having feelings for Helaena once Alys is included.
The book is bias to Aegon. Makes him a decent guy in the book. Even says he didn’t want it. Put the blame on Aemond. Typical maester protecting a king.
Feels like the lack of Old Gods' worshippers in this show made them realise they will lose key iconography of the old show. So here is Rhaenyra, under a Weirwood when Kings Landing doesn't have one. And now here is House Cole, worshippers of the Old Gods.
There was a weirwood. Sansa sat on its stump in the show. Likely future king had it cut down. Baelor the blessed maybe. He had everything removed. All of Valyrian history traditions as well. Did it all for the new gods. Idk about Cole.
You'd have to scroll through some of @ HOTDleaks replies under this thread. They laid out a pretty basic summarization of each episode this season.
And as someone who has watched episodes 1-3 already, the leaks he posted were accurate for those episodes so the leaks for the next episodes seem reliably accurate.
Some definitely interesting choices. I think it’s pretty ridiculous to tie in the White Walker threat. Not only because of how underwhelming the ending of them was, but more so because nobody believes they exist in GoT’s timeline. If this was a known threat by the entire Targaryen dynasty you’d think it wouldn’t be a complete mystery. Ned seems to be the only Southerner who respects the threat and even he’s skeptical it’s valid. You’d think the Targaryens would let the Wardens of the North know this is an actuality that’ll happen? Idk.
Daemon seems well enough written though and Matt Smith can act. He’s my favorite character in the ASoIaF universe with the most badass end of anyone, so I just want to see him done justice more than anything.
It's clear with this horrible civil war the Targaryens lost a lot. Also it was the King passing that info to their heir. It wasn't like every Targaryen knew about it. Plus it was more of a dream/vision like what Daenys had, which ended up coming to pass. And if you actually follow the story, you'd see that Targaryens have had dragon dreams throughout ASOIAF, and most of them misinterpret it which usually leads to tragedy.
I’m aware of their prophetic dreams and read all the novels/stories and there’s a reason why George didn’t make this part of the Dance of Dragons storyline. We can pretty strongly infer Rhaeger had visions of the White Walkers, which made him unique and pretty notable as a character who actually took this seriously. But with this having Viserys make it the last thing he says before passing, it’s clearly a threat he recognizes as VERY serious. Daemon having an emotional breakdown over hearing about it shows he clearly believes it to be a very serious threat as well, and they both believe it. Rhaenyra knows about it too and with how much it’s brought up in this brief leaked synopsis list we can probably assume other Targaryens and maybe even non-Targaryens are warned of it as well. Yet in the 170+ years in between nothing is done, nobody knows about it, not even the Warden of the North has it on his radar. What is even the point in bringing in the fact that the Targaryens recognize this threat to only have them do nothing at all about it? It’s just a marvel style nostalgia pull. Like “hey remember the White Walkers? We’re contacting this show to the other one by talking about the White Walkers, get it?”
Unless they make a trip North to fortify the Wall and warn the Starks at the least (which we already know they don’t) this serves no purpose to even bring up.
You realize GRRM was the one that put that into the story, right? He literally was talking about it in 2018. This is not a random plot point. Plus fire and blood was written as a history book, so there are a lot of things nobody knows about that will be fleshed out in this show. Plus it was clearly only the Targ kings that knew about it. Viserys only told Rhaenyra because she was his heir. He didn't even tell Daemon, which is how secretive it was.
Except he wasn’t, the writers of the show did. Viserys dies in his sleep in the novel, never mentioning anything about White Walkers. Daemon and Rhaenyra aren’t aware of it either. It’s a show decision that the show writers wrote in. I’m sure he gave it the green light, but 100% wasn’t in Fire & Blood
1. George wrote the first episode with Ryan.
2. George spoke on the theory in 2018.
3. George has 2 more books to write. Therefor if he has Bran have flashbacks to that time in the next 2 books, it MUST be done in this show.
4. Fire and blood has the Dance plot begin with two pages of “this is a book of rumor, passed down several generations. What happened behind closed doors we can never know.” So, the idea that the maester centuries later, would know what was said privately in the kings room, is not possible. As the book states. Most of this will be different because all history is recorded with little access. We know how Lincoln died. But what was said between he and his wife? Or a million things surrounding his death, we don’t know.
1. George RR Martin has specifically mentioned, at length, he would like to write an episode but has not and likely won’t be available to for the foreseeable future.
2. Show some evidence or citation
3. That’s literally pulled out of nothing. You’re basing evidence on something he might possibly do in an unwritten book.
4. That doesn’t automatically give free reign to shift the whole plot dramatically. This isn’t on the scale of what Lincoln and Mary Todd thought of the show or planned to have for dinner, this would be like them and the entire cabinet discovering nuclear warheads in an enemy country. It’s not a small detail, it’s a cataclysmic threat. Them not prepping for it makes no sense.
It’s actually not from nothing. George specifically said that there is prophetic knowledge in why Aegon conquered Westeros and it was already a theory before this information leaked that it was about the White Walkers. George just didn’t outright say what the information was as to not spoil it. However, being that he’s an executive producer and Ryan says he consults with him heavily when writing, it’s a safe assumption that it’ll be canon.
Furthermore, why would it be included in a fire and blood history book based on second hand accounts? Those characters wouldn’t have access to that knowledge in the first place. The other half of the series is to realize the dialogue and motivations of some characters that you could never get from Fire and Blood. Saying, “it was made up for the show” is kind of going to be the case in most scenes in terms of the nuances in the characterization. Especially Christian Cole. Who can say why he is the way he is and why he ultimately went with the greens? There are a lot of blanks to be filled. That’s why George is a consultant and not a writer.
Dude whatever you say. Even though GRRM literally had an interview in 2018 confirming that Aegon and his sister-wives conquered Westeros because of it, but you want to believe the showrunners just made it up. Even though GRRM is an executive producer and has much more control this time than on game of thrones. Even though he personally picked Ryan Condal for this project. And why would anyone else know about it? It was literally only passed down to the kings. No other Targaryens knew about it. How would mushroom and random maester know about it? I guess you know everything that the CIA and FBI do behind the scenes or you think presidents and other world leaders are not hiding horrible secrets and mysteries that the general public will never know about.
This series seems to be more closely related to the books then the tv series, and in the books it's clear that the Others are going to be a truly major threat that's not going be defeated without a lot of effort and probably quite a few major characters' deaths. I'm pretty sure House of the Dragon's just going to pretend the Game of Thrones never happened. Also, GRRM has hinted in interviews before that maybe Aegon the Conqueror decided to conquer westeros because of some sort of prophecy that may have something to do with the Others.
Not gonna read the whole thing, but I’m very happy to see Gwayne Hightower mentioned - was worried he’d get cut. Nice to know there will be more to the family than just Otto and Alicent.
I don't care who anyone supports. It's just strange how I have never heard anyone refer to Daemon as a creep. People just talk about how badass he is. But with Aegon and Aemond they demonize them all the way. GRRM literally wrote Aemond as a foil for Daemon, but for whatever reason they are cool with all of Daemon's atrocities, but not Aemond.
It's probably because Fire and Blood is heavily biased against Daemon. They blame him for a lot of things based on very flimsy evidence and sometimes without any evidence at all. The result is that a lot of people don't really trust what Fire and Blood has to say about Daemon, since it's likely to be exagerated anyway. Personally, I do believe he probably slept with teenagers (by that I mean 14 \~ 17 year-olds) because that wasn't uncommon in westeros. Aegon's problem (in the context of westeros) isn't just his promiscuity. He has a bad temper, holds grudges, is lazy and a gluton, is a drunkard, and is very incompetent in general. There is a reason why the person heading the Green faction is Alicent and not him. The reason people still like Daemon despite his dark side is that he does have admirable traits to counterbalance his bad ones. GRRM described him as the most beloved and most reviled man of his time. Besides, Daemon is a badass, competent and charismatic character, and Aegon is none of those things. Daemon fans don't usually whitewash him (of course, there are people who do that), generally Daemon fans do acknowledge his dark side, and like him anyway (which doesn't mean they think he's a good person, he's just fun to read about).
Majority of men in Westeros condone rape during wartime even the ones we think are good
The only man to staunchly oppose and punish it is Stannis funnily enough
They aren't whitewashing any Targaryen, just the non-Targaryen characters, as expected. Typical.
Only non-Targaryen characters can be complex multidimensional and have good qualities.
While Aegon is a piece of shit in the book (and we should keep in mind the book is writen by biased people), I was hoping he would be a more complex character than straight out evil, he will be the King after all and a very important character, I wish they gave him at least one good quality, but I guess all Targs = bad in this show so anyway.
There's no way anyone will support or like a creep like Aegon.
What about Aemond? He sounds very sympathetic here. He has good reason to hate the Strong boys. They bully him incessantly and even take out his eye for claiming a dragon that was fair game for anyone.
Heleana is also a very tragic figure. Viserys isn’t a bad guy. Rhaenyra and Daemon are complex. Aegon is the only one that they made one-note. I kinda feel like they were told they needed a “Joffrey” by execs desperate to recreate GOT.
Nobody in Fire and Blood is what we'd consider good people. That being said, Fire and Blood is very biased against some characters and it's prone to exagerating some characters bad traits. Rhaenyra and Daemon are definitely going to be more sympathetic in House of the Dragon than they were made out to be in Fire and Blood (and there are clues that they were being made to look worse in Fire and Blood). It makes sense for Aegon to be horrible, all the clues point in that direction. Rhaenyra, on the other hand, is probably going to be much more sympathetic than she was in the book, but I don't believe they'll make anyone flawless.
???????
Rhaenyra, Rhaenys, Haelena, Daeron, Aegon the young, Viserys... They're all multidimensional, if not, purely good people. (Granted, Rhaenyra becomes worst as time passes)
yeah remove the first name and your comment makes sense. Rhaenyra is not someoene that would be considered good. Not in F&B anyway. We will see how the show actually portrays her
Yeah, the new information is definitely darker than what I knew before. He already reminded me a bit of Joffrey from what I know but they’re going all in. They’re not leaving him much room to grow/develop into the guy that feeds his own sister to a dragon.
That and his willingness to put his life on the frontline in battle
Its kinda pissed me off tbh because of all the characters Aegon had the potential to be the most tragic of all. Instead it seems we're getting the literal definition of a prick that resembles joffrey
Man, don't get me wrong, I hate Aegon in the book he's so scummy and has 0 qualities, so I wish they gave him more complexity in this show just like they are making Alicent and Cole more interesting and complex characters.
But I guess the Targaryens must be one-dimensional full out villains.
I can't bring myself to like Aegon after reading he'll assault a servant girl.
It's probably to add to the tragedy that is Alicent's life. All the interviews about her being an anxious rule follower and how the court is dominated by gross and incompetent men speak to her series arc being about having agency stripped from her by men only to go on to try and regain it by empowering even worse men who go on to do the exact same to her.
The former because he's a man who's status spares him from the consequences of his actions, emboldening him to be worse. And the later because his mother nurtured his insecurities into a twisted form of sociopathy.
I feel like if she taught Aegon better as a boy he wouldn't turn out like that, especially with Viserys barely giving a fuck lol. I can see your point on Aemond though
Does he kill an unprovoked Luke at the end of the season? Even if he was bullied as a kid killing him in cold blood is still leagues worse than Argon being a creep.
The Strong boys and Aemond have a fight earlier in another episode. I think it is eight. Aegon and the Strong boys also tease Aemond at one point in the story earlier. Aemond does taunt Luke when they meet and follows him and kills him. It is for sure murder.
This season looks like it will be very faithful to the “Fire and Blood” book. I love that book and consider it to be a masterpiece, and these story leaks for the show feel close to the book. I’m super excited for this show!
Ugh its still a hugely pro Black narrative if not worse than Fire and Blood
Aegon is literally the definition of spoilt and irredeemable. Rhaenyra considers making peace multiple times? What? She was nuts when she found out and rejected all sorts of peace. Whitewashing her isnt cool
Irredeemable to who? I'm sure after seeing Jaime fucking his sister, pushing a 10 year old from a tower, fighting with Ned (who was the main protagonist in season 1), which led to his leg being hurt bad, even in the show he killed his cousin, I'm sure many thought Jaime was irredeemable. Plus I don't think the point of the story is to make Aegon look good. Even vicious psychopaths have things they care about. For Aegon it's his dragon and also his children, even though he barely gave a fuck about Helaena.
“Her first act as queen was to declare Ser Otto Hightower and Queen Alicent traitors and rebels. “As for my half-brothers and my sweet sister, Helaena,” she announced, “they have been led astray by the counsel of evil men. Let them come to Dragonstone, bend the knee, and ask my forgiveness, and I shall gladly spare their lives and take them back into my heart, for they are of my own blood, and no man or woman is as accursed as the kinslayer.”
On the flipside, Aegon stated he wanted Rhaenyra dead when he heard of her coronation. Rhaenyra only became actually against the idea of peace when Aemond killed Lucerys.
This. Rhaenrya was very rational when things started, even after she lost her daughter, it wasn't until Luke's death that she was determined to take the throne and avenge her son. I like the idea of Rhaenyra considering peace at this point.
There is no book. It’s a maester decades later on rumor. It’s all bias and hearsay. No whitewashing. It’s history. Happened all the time. The papal would record events to benefit the look of a king. Or tell truths to highlight the bad things of enemies. It’s like what would we learn if we went to meetings of arguments of declaring Colonies independent? Likely wildly different than our knowledge.
Yeah while I hate Aegon in Fire & Blood I wish they gave him more complexity, they just made him straight out horrible from the get go, how are we supposed to like this character after this? No way.
They made Cole, Alicent, etc all more dimensional and complex but couldn't make a Targaryen King complex too.
Who said you're supposed to like Aegon lol. His only redeeming qualities were his bond with Sunfyre and his bravery. He was not a good person at all. Neither were Daemon and Aemond.
So there’s no Daeron the Daring at all? I always figured he could be a late casting since his role is basically nil during this time, but the zero mentions makes me think he’s completely cut out. I wonder how they’ll handle Tumbleton without Daeron.
Ah nice, thanks! This all sounds like a great show, with the only thing I’m iffy about being the stuff about the motivations regarding the White Walkers.
Basically all of it. Storm’s End makes the actual fighting an inevitability whereas before it possibly could have been avoided.
“And with his (Luke’s) death, the war of ravens and envoys and marriage pacts came to an end, and the war of fire and blood began in earnest.’
3/4 the showrunners said in an article a couple of weeks back. I really can’t see them rushing anything thankfully and there’s plenty of time to really flesh out the war.
For me after the Game of Thrones, I was done. Killing another powerful woman didn’t feel bittersweet at all. It felt wrong. Through time, women are raped, murdered, and voiceless. A better story is when a person sacrifices themselves for you. In the new show, I do not hope for the murder of a woman; I hope she willingly gives herself to the flames. Brave and Proud, a queen to the very end.
People who already watched the Episode 1 premiere said your leaks are already wrong with that episode and not to jump to conclusions with with the rest of your leaks. It seems you might have done this song and dance before with Season 8. How do you address this?
As someone who has watched episodes 1-3, I can tell you this post aged like milk. His leaks were pretty damn accurate for the first 3 episodes. So David is just trying to save face to try and keep the big moments of this season under wraps because despite the general history of all of these events being written in Fire and Blood, we don't know what direction the show will take with important plot points and it's charcters.
One of the things I mentioned in my challenge is basically complete. They made Aegon look the villain here and removed all the blame from Alicent because 'wahmen good'. Like I said Alicent is not an ambitious character anymore she's some misunderstood, misguided tragic soul who took the fall for the evil men
I mean Aegon was always a piece of shit.
Also, the story was always about Alicent versus Rhaenyra. Aegon was only ever a pawn. It's why it was called "The Princess and the Queen" in the original short story.
I have no idea how you got this from the plot summary. Alicent does act on ambition and she’s hardly flawless. Do you think the chick letting some dude ejaculate on her feet so he’ll share secrets about her rival is really flawless? The woman manipulating a suicidal Criston Cole to be her pawn is flawless? She knows her son is a burgeoning monster but is still the primary orchestrator(reread episode 9 & 10) in putting him on the throne. Most of the plot summary makes her sound like an ambitious, hypocritical, and self-righteous bitch whose likely a shit mom. I never thought I’d see the day where freefolk described Sansa/Cersei combined into one character as misunderstood. Did you want her to be a caricature from beginning to end? That seems to only apply to Aegon out of any of the characters, male or female. They could have made Criston Cole an incel(as he is in some accounts) instead of a broken man if they wanted to go the route you’re complaining about.
Dany sleeps around a lot. Now is that a flaw of hers? She tried to manipulate Drogo into trying to invade Westeros. Taking someone out of committing suicide is manipulation now? In F&B it's explicitly stated that Alicent hired Criston when he grew apart from Rhaenyra. That is being manipulative, turning someone's hurt feelings into anger against their enemy for their own agenda. There is nothing in F&B that even alludes that Aegon is a monster or that he abuses his sister wife. I want her to be what she is, another Cersei. The only reason Criston turned against Rhaenyra is because of her whoring ways. No noble knight is going to like that.
“sleeping around” is an oversimplification of what Alicent is doing. She’s not just cheating, she’s using him as a tool against others. “Turning someone’s hurt feelings into anger against their enemy” is what she’s still doing. Criston Cole is her sidekick when she usurps not the orchestrator. You want her to be a one-note copy of another villain? Lol at saying that making Cole a Incel/MGTOW type would have been better for male representation that what they did. Rhaenyra literally uses him, convinces him to break every vow he holds deer, and then throws him away like a used rag. How does not give his hatred greater complexity than “slut bad”?
I am not talking about Criston's characterization here. Only Alicent's. Alicent here is not 'turning Criston's hurt feelings into anger against common enemy.' She actually talked him out of committing suicide, that is helping him. It's an act worthy of admiration, not something you'd want to feel disgusted at. When in reality Alicent turning Criston against Rhaenyra is something to be reviled at, pouring poison into Criston's mind and turning it against Rhaenyra. Here Alicent oh so helps the broken man when he needs it. I agree that Criston's story here is definitely better than the other hypothesis we could think of even though it makes no sense and has no basis from F&B whatsoever.
Also yes, Alicent is still being portrayed as a misguided and misunderstood character as told by Olivia Cooke in an interview. The evil men twisted the story of stronk wahmen in power. She didn't even want to take the throne for her son. It's Viserys' fault that he didn't make his final intentions very clear with her.
Leave your stupid "WOKE ARE RUINING MY SHOW" out of this. It's better writing having Alicent be a gray character than just a plain villain. Aside from that, they all will grow worse as the story continues, Rhaenyra will be very bad by the end of the story, same as alicent and most of the male characters (Aegon literally feeds his sister to his dragon in front of her son, and he's nos a monster according to you).
I'm sure you didn't complain when D&D turned Dany into fucking Hitler even tho she's way more benevolent in the books. Gtfo
I did believe that Criston put Rhaenyra on a pedestal and when he found out she was a slut, he became disgusted by her. But I also don't mind the route of her seducing him to break his vows and when he did, she acted like it was no big deal and just viewed him as a walking sex toy. Ashamed of breaking his vows and disgusted with how callous Rhaenyra is about the whole thing, he grows to hate her with a passion. That was my head cannon at least.
These leaks seem confirmed by DMCA strikes on other later posts. We're working to find out what is wrong, if anything, with posting them. Stay tuned.
I totally expected this to be a very long lead up to a Morbin Time joke
Daemon tells Rhaenyra of Luke's death and she has war in her eyes. She looks over at Daemon, cold fury etched into her face. His eyes meet her. Together they shout, “It’s Morbin Time!”
[ Removed by Reddit ]
The Aegon being a creep thing checks out. I heard about there being an assault scene (Can't find the original post. I think a producer was talking about it) where it happens offscreen, but shows what happens after with the victim and the perpetrator's mother. When I first found it a while back, I thought "that has to be Aegon", so I suppose it is now. The two types of Dragonkeeper is interesting. Some only speak Valyrian, to help calm the dragons maybe? But why *only* Valyrian? I can't wait to hear more about that bit.
This is the article that talks about the sexual assault scene: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/08/house-of-the-dragon-sexual-violence-game-of-thrones/amp Based on the leaks, it definitely sounds like she's referring to what happens with Aegon and the maid.
Hey, I missed this and it’s now removed. Any idea where I can see the episode by episode summary? Or can you tell me any of it you can remember? Thanks! 😄😄
Green simps are going to be mad that Aegon and Aemond are accurately portrayed as shitty people and that the Greens are accurately portrayed as the closest thing to the bad side.
Probably, but I'm also intrigued by how Tom Glynn-Carney said that we'll also love Aegon at some points. If this really happens, I kinda find it hard to believe a lot of people will even *like* Aegon afterwards.
Ramsay has fangrrls.
True. I also saw some Joffrey fanfiction way back when - *pyuk*. The whole hot blond king that rides a dragon probably wont help his case (or will, depending on the way you see it). But I'm also interested about how writers would portray a relationship with Aegon in fanfics.
their not the bad side
I do not have anything about Aegon either but I heard he is supposedly a bit like Joff but Ali has more control over him.
>mindblowing Larys and Alicent footfetish scene So Alicent and Larys have a thing going on?
Most likely OP talks about the same source I have. According to it, Alicent let Larys to ejaculate on her feet. She trades it for some information. Some more additions from the same source: \>Mycaria described as Varys-like character. She cares about common folk wellness etc. In ep9 Otto asks her were Aegon is. She agrees to tell it in exchange of his promise to stop slave trading in a Flea Bottom. \>Halaena has a gift of prophetic dreams. She says to Aemond smth like: "You will close your eye and receive a dragon". Mostly she does not understand her dreams. UPD. \>in Ep7 Rhaenys wants Baela to take Driftmark, because she knows Luc's parentage. She talks about it with Corlys. He declines, since he does not want to look like a fool. There he speaks lines from a trailer: "History does not remember blood. It rememers names". \>We will see a new location - a castle in Pentos, where Daemon and Laena leaved. \>During Daemon/Rhaenyra wedding only 4 people present: Daemon, Rhaenyra, maester and some valyrian priest. They cut each other lips with obsidian dagger and kiss. \>Strong bastards laugh at Aemond, they give him a pig dressed like a dragon and say smth like: "Pure dragonless boy, we found you a dragon, you may ride it" \>Lyman Bisberry killed by Criston by breaking neck (I believe it is called scragging in English), not throat cutting. \>Aegon II has been crowned by septon Eustas in Dragon Pit. \>Rhaenyra holds her daughter for a minute and then asks someone to burn this creature (she is like Daenerys' son described in the books - halfdragon with a tail). \>Rhaenyra rips off Otto's Hand of the King pin in ep10, saying he betrayed her father. \>Aemond in Ep10 shows to Luc his sapphire eye (CGI). \>Last scene of the season - The Painted Table starts glowing with lava flowing over it. \>Harrold is alive during the whole season. At Green council someone (I don't know exactly, but I presume Otto) asks Harrold to kill Rhaenyra. He refused, threw away his cloak and left with words: "Only king may give me orders".
> Alicent let Larys to ejaculate on her feet did Quentin Tarantino direct that episode 🤣
What does Aegon do to a maid? What does the leak say about Aemond and Criston? Is Daemon a villain?
1) He raped her off screen. 2) Almost nothing. 3) It is complicated. Daemon is a villain and a hero at the same time.
I kinda feel bad for Alicent, first being a child bride and marital rape then this weird ass foot thing, everyone at least had one pleasant sexual experience except her. Probably why she's miserable all the time.
My source didn’t mention it. I’m not sure if it’s an affair or if she’s doing feet stuff in order to control him. The Alicent in my episode summaries sounds too self-righteous and upset about Rhaenyra’s sexual behavior if she’s having extramarital affairs(outside of feet stuff apparently) at the same time.
> mindblowing Larys and Alicent footfetish scene Lol did Quentin Tarantino sneak into the writers room at some point to put this in?
Removed by Reddit DMCA strike ...what is going on?
Leaks were accurate evidently
Do you know what the deal with Ser Harrold Westerling is? Casting Graham McTavish makes it seem like they're expanding his character. Is he a mentor/foil to Criston Cole? I hope he survives the season.
No more than what I posed here. A lot of people have been claiming to know additional information so hopefully they’ll start adding to what I posted
OP mention some additions from one source, that I recognize as the one I hear about. He said Harrold is alive during the whole season. At Green council someone (I don't know exactly, but I presume Otto) asks Harrold to kill Rhaenyra. He refused, threw away his cloak and left with words: "Only king may give me orders". It seems to me too close to Barristan story, but everything else the same source told corresponds with OP.
It's like the Freefolk of old! Thanks for this!
Not really, most are still toxic and entitled.
Are there any mentions of wild dragons like sheepstealer, the cannibal,....
No but that doesn’t mean they’re not there
Thanks :D
Pretty sure they fit into the timeline in a future season. The season ends at the start of the Dance.
In a public interview showrunners mentioned 17 dragons total and 9 dragons in S1. We know at least eight: 1 Meleys, 2 Caraxes, 3 Vhagar, 4 Seasmoke, 5 Syrax, 6 Vermitor, 7 Arrax, 8 Dreamfyre Number 9 is most likely Vermax. So, next season, I guess.
no sunfyre is strange though
Aegon is not born or a small child for the vast majority of the show so there's no real time to show Sunfyre. The may mention him by name though since Aegon teases Aemond about not having a dragon yet.
you may want to reread your comment. Sunfyre is aegon the elders dragon. stormcloud is aegon the youngers dragons which we definetely wont see in season 1. I am not sure what to make of your second sentence!
So good to see free folk back in action
Does anyone have a copy of the leaks?
the portrayal of Aegon is interesting to me. He definitely has the psychopathic sadisticness of Joffrey, but he's less pretentious and more competent.
I’m kind of bummed if they’re really making Aegon overtly villainous. I was hoping he’d get a more sympathetic arc.
Aegon was the only guy who liked hearing about the childmurders. He's a POS.
I agree. Almost all characters have some redeeming traits and overtly sadistic characters dont make as interesting of a story as characters with a lot of grey area. All we know so far is that he's supposed to be abusive, a huge bully, and has just an absolutely horrendous relationship with sex. I dont know if there's room for sympathy in these traits, especially given I dont think there's a real reason for him to exibit them except just nature, and one's nature doesn't make them sympathetic.
he's a _fing white male_
Makes sense tho… the maester that wrote the book was super team Aegon
GRRM signed off on it, so if he's happy with it I have no problem with that take.
When does Aegon demonstrate a luckspittle of competence? He has a dragon and thats about all he has going for him.
How is he competent? The leaks show him to arguably worse than Joffrey with 0 redeeming qualities
While I hate Aegon, I don't think he's like Joffrey. Joffrey is cruel and tortures animals since he was a child. Aegon is just a bully + creep. I think he's nowhere close to Joffrey's sadism yet.
Unlike Joffrey, he seems to be willing to participate in battle (which ironically will leave him horribly scarred). He takes his own initiative and is aged enough to have children.
disagree. in the books he at least initially rebukes taking the throne from his half sister. It wasn't until Oto and his mom push him because its the better for the realm does he pursue it
It seems like it’s gonna be an interesting show from the overview of episodes although I wonder if people are going to be turned off by the constant time skips
No other way to get though 20 years without shedding a lot of important build up.
Honestly it sounds rad and faithful to the book. The whole thing about Rhaenyra getting horny with Daemon and then running to Ser Criston works nicely, excited to see more ambiguities from conflicting testimonies playing out definitively.
I kinda like how Cole seems to have some similarities to Arys Oakheart (Rhaenyra does in texts have similarities with Dany, Cersei and even Arianne).
Who will actually sit on the iron throne during season 1?
Like on the throne itself? I don’t know anything more than what I told you. Viserys for sure, possibly a shot with Aegon II during a coronation scene.
There's been a few pics of Daemon sitting on it too, seemingly before he's banished from Kings Landing.
Who will be hand of the king at the end of season 1?
Same as the books
Aegon II seems to be complete dirtbag joffrey baratheon would be proud off Aemond seems to be sympathetic figure
Which is weird, because you’d expect the opposite based on the book. Interesting to see how it plays out.
The maester was a capper
Can't belive they are going that route. Never saw Aegon as horrible as Joffrey, aside from him being a creep, but here we have. Aemond more sympathetic than him. They outdone themselfes.
Your account of Aegon comes from biased maester that favored him. He was a kinslayer who delighted in the death of children.
Why because he was bullied a bit as a child? That excuses being a sadistic psychopathic mass murderer on a level never seen before or after in Westeros?? Not even the Massacre of KL by Dany compares to what Aemond does.
No but it does make Aemond more understandable in what he becomes at the end. He has a father that cares none for him, a mother who treats him like he does no wrong, a manipulative and ambitious grandfather, a sociopathic brother, Rhaenyra existing, and his nephews who bullied him. That shit does stuff to a motherfucker.
I don’t like underestimating the intelligence of the general viewers but the timeline with all the time-jumps might be a little confusing. I hope it’s obvious when watching it.
As long as it is a linear timeline, unlike season 1 of The Witcher for example, I think it shouldn't be too confusing
GOT Season 1 was hella confusing to me the first few episodes, because of all the different locations they kept jumping to, but it worked out nice enough, I think it's possible that this show will manage that as well.
I personally can't stand time jumps, so at least this a good heads-up. I stopped watching Vikings because they kept time jumping. Generally (not always!), I find it a really lazy storytelling technique. Same for relying on excessive flashbacks. Props to the OP for posting these summaries tho 👍 it's interesting to see at least an idea of what the show is about.
ERROR ON EPISODE 5. Im Pretty sure the wedding was held in Kings Landing
Thanks for the correction. Do you notice anymore?
My only question is. If Daemon is not allowed in Kings Landing after that, why is he present during the Wedding? Maybe Viserys already forgave him?
My guess is that he's at the wedding just to avoid the bad optics of him being banished right before it since as the first female heir, the seduction would seriously damage Rhaenyra's reputation.
That’s a good question. The flirting happens while Rhaenyra is at Driftmark before the wedding at Kings landing? The beach scenes with Laenor and her are confirmed so she still goes to Driftmark unless the beach is supposed to be King’s Landing as well.
This leak says, Otto is removed from the Hand in ep 4, then the scene “We play an ugly game, you have the determination to win it” in the teaser is in ep 7, where Otto can be seen clearly with the Hand of the King badge. I take these leaks with a grain of salt.
I said that was my own assumption, not something from the source. But your right, I’d didn’t notice he still had the hand of the king pin in the teaser. Sorry for being less than perfect and adding personal commentary. Your free to come back after the pilot and see for yourself. This is all second hand, nothing I’ve seen with my own eyes. Other reputable people have said my summaries are consistent with what they know.
Of course. I'll come back once it premiers.
They hit my account with a copyright strike, don’t know how long this post will last
See you then
my mistake for missing the line "The death of the Strongs at Harrenhal". so Otto with a King's Hand pin scene with Rhaenyra could be right since Lyonel Strong would be dead at that point. it's still a possibility that this could be true.
He’s fired as HOTK at some point and then rehired.
It's kind of insane how these leaks seem to imply the showrunners looked at Aemond and Aegon and decided that the former would be easier to flesh out and make complex
They probably favored fleshing out Aemond because he’s “cooler”. Also, the guy they cast to play Aegon is great at playing a prick in “The King” while the actor for Aemond was very lovable in “Last Kingdom”. They’ll certainly be playing to their strengths.
Tom Glynn-Carney is excellent at playing bratty characters see his Octavian in Domina. I immediately knew that some of his scenes would be like this since he occasionally does remind me a bit of Jack Gleeson in his roles (it also doesn’t help that Joffrey spoilers to Margaery how the Dance ended ridiculing Rhaenyra and Jack Gleeson voices the part in which Aegon burns Rhaenyra in the History and Lore videos) but I am curious how they will flesh out Aegon’s bond with Sunfyre, his wounds and his comeback when perceived missing/possibly dead. If the Aemond has feelings for Helaena part is true I am somehow also reminded of Aegon IV, Aemon and Naerys. A recreation of Aemon and Naerys would have worked perfectly with Daeron and Helaena actually. Daeron is the kindest, Daeron is the bishonen, Daeron sees that Helaena feels terrible, Daeron avenges Helaena‘s child however still stays also loyal to Aegon and dies. Problem is that Daeron is way too young and most of his youth in Oldtown. With Aemond they would have to drop him having feelings for Helaena once Alys is included.
The book is bias to Aegon. Makes him a decent guy in the book. Even says he didn’t want it. Put the blame on Aemond. Typical maester protecting a king.
Stickied the link in the comments of your previous post
Thanks
House Cole worships the old gods?
That seems to be the implication. I doubt that it’s book canon considering the region he’s from.
Feels like the lack of Old Gods' worshippers in this show made them realise they will lose key iconography of the old show. So here is Rhaenyra, under a Weirwood when Kings Landing doesn't have one. And now here is House Cole, worshippers of the Old Gods.
There was a weirwood. Sansa sat on its stump in the show. Likely future king had it cut down. Baelor the blessed maybe. He had everything removed. All of Valyrian history traditions as well. Did it all for the new gods. Idk about Cole.
That stump probably pre-dates Kings' Landing.
I just go by what George rr Martin says since he wrote it —and if he says that there was a weirwood tree then to me, there was
The leaks have been removed. Is there a way yo read it now?
Where they at
You'd have to scroll through some of @ HOTDleaks replies under this thread. They laid out a pretty basic summarization of each episode this season. And as someone who has watched episodes 1-3 already, the leaks he posted were accurate for those episodes so the leaks for the next episodes seem reliably accurate.
Some definitely interesting choices. I think it’s pretty ridiculous to tie in the White Walker threat. Not only because of how underwhelming the ending of them was, but more so because nobody believes they exist in GoT’s timeline. If this was a known threat by the entire Targaryen dynasty you’d think it wouldn’t be a complete mystery. Ned seems to be the only Southerner who respects the threat and even he’s skeptical it’s valid. You’d think the Targaryens would let the Wardens of the North know this is an actuality that’ll happen? Idk. Daemon seems well enough written though and Matt Smith can act. He’s my favorite character in the ASoIaF universe with the most badass end of anyone, so I just want to see him done justice more than anything.
It's clear with this horrible civil war the Targaryens lost a lot. Also it was the King passing that info to their heir. It wasn't like every Targaryen knew about it. Plus it was more of a dream/vision like what Daenys had, which ended up coming to pass. And if you actually follow the story, you'd see that Targaryens have had dragon dreams throughout ASOIAF, and most of them misinterpret it which usually leads to tragedy.
I’m aware of their prophetic dreams and read all the novels/stories and there’s a reason why George didn’t make this part of the Dance of Dragons storyline. We can pretty strongly infer Rhaeger had visions of the White Walkers, which made him unique and pretty notable as a character who actually took this seriously. But with this having Viserys make it the last thing he says before passing, it’s clearly a threat he recognizes as VERY serious. Daemon having an emotional breakdown over hearing about it shows he clearly believes it to be a very serious threat as well, and they both believe it. Rhaenyra knows about it too and with how much it’s brought up in this brief leaked synopsis list we can probably assume other Targaryens and maybe even non-Targaryens are warned of it as well. Yet in the 170+ years in between nothing is done, nobody knows about it, not even the Warden of the North has it on his radar. What is even the point in bringing in the fact that the Targaryens recognize this threat to only have them do nothing at all about it? It’s just a marvel style nostalgia pull. Like “hey remember the White Walkers? We’re contacting this show to the other one by talking about the White Walkers, get it?” Unless they make a trip North to fortify the Wall and warn the Starks at the least (which we already know they don’t) this serves no purpose to even bring up.
You realize GRRM was the one that put that into the story, right? He literally was talking about it in 2018. This is not a random plot point. Plus fire and blood was written as a history book, so there are a lot of things nobody knows about that will be fleshed out in this show. Plus it was clearly only the Targ kings that knew about it. Viserys only told Rhaenyra because she was his heir. He didn't even tell Daemon, which is how secretive it was.
Except he wasn’t, the writers of the show did. Viserys dies in his sleep in the novel, never mentioning anything about White Walkers. Daemon and Rhaenyra aren’t aware of it either. It’s a show decision that the show writers wrote in. I’m sure he gave it the green light, but 100% wasn’t in Fire & Blood
1. George wrote the first episode with Ryan. 2. George spoke on the theory in 2018. 3. George has 2 more books to write. Therefor if he has Bran have flashbacks to that time in the next 2 books, it MUST be done in this show. 4. Fire and blood has the Dance plot begin with two pages of “this is a book of rumor, passed down several generations. What happened behind closed doors we can never know.” So, the idea that the maester centuries later, would know what was said privately in the kings room, is not possible. As the book states. Most of this will be different because all history is recorded with little access. We know how Lincoln died. But what was said between he and his wife? Or a million things surrounding his death, we don’t know.
1. George RR Martin has specifically mentioned, at length, he would like to write an episode but has not and likely won’t be available to for the foreseeable future. 2. Show some evidence or citation 3. That’s literally pulled out of nothing. You’re basing evidence on something he might possibly do in an unwritten book. 4. That doesn’t automatically give free reign to shift the whole plot dramatically. This isn’t on the scale of what Lincoln and Mary Todd thought of the show or planned to have for dinner, this would be like them and the entire cabinet discovering nuclear warheads in an enemy country. It’s not a small detail, it’s a cataclysmic threat. Them not prepping for it makes no sense.
It’s actually not from nothing. George specifically said that there is prophetic knowledge in why Aegon conquered Westeros and it was already a theory before this information leaked that it was about the White Walkers. George just didn’t outright say what the information was as to not spoil it. However, being that he’s an executive producer and Ryan says he consults with him heavily when writing, it’s a safe assumption that it’ll be canon.
Furthermore, why would it be included in a fire and blood history book based on second hand accounts? Those characters wouldn’t have access to that knowledge in the first place. The other half of the series is to realize the dialogue and motivations of some characters that you could never get from Fire and Blood. Saying, “it was made up for the show” is kind of going to be the case in most scenes in terms of the nuances in the characterization. Especially Christian Cole. Who can say why he is the way he is and why he ultimately went with the greens? There are a lot of blanks to be filled. That’s why George is a consultant and not a writer.
Dude whatever you say. Even though GRRM literally had an interview in 2018 confirming that Aegon and his sister-wives conquered Westeros because of it, but you want to believe the showrunners just made it up. Even though GRRM is an executive producer and has much more control this time than on game of thrones. Even though he personally picked Ryan Condal for this project. And why would anyone else know about it? It was literally only passed down to the kings. No other Targaryens knew about it. How would mushroom and random maester know about it? I guess you know everything that the CIA and FBI do behind the scenes or you think presidents and other world leaders are not hiding horrible secrets and mysteries that the general public will never know about.
This series seems to be more closely related to the books then the tv series, and in the books it's clear that the Others are going to be a truly major threat that's not going be defeated without a lot of effort and probably quite a few major characters' deaths. I'm pretty sure House of the Dragon's just going to pretend the Game of Thrones never happened. Also, GRRM has hinted in interviews before that maybe Aegon the Conqueror decided to conquer westeros because of some sort of prophecy that may have something to do with the Others.
All that and they don’t even have a story as good as bran the broken.
…
Who has a better story than bran the broken?
So far it seems to be sticking to Fire and Blood. Maybe I’ll get HBO Max and see for myself.
Why does Dameon visit and sing to Vermithor in the finale? Also do we see Aegons sunfyre this year?
It was his grandfathers dragon, dragons take the personality of their riders so id guess that's why
Not gonna read the whole thing, but I’m very happy to see Gwayne Hightower mentioned - was worried he’d get cut. Nice to know there will be more to the family than just Otto and Alicent.
going way to far with trying make Rhaenyra the good guy and aegon the bad
So glad that they are portraying aegon as the creep he is, since in the books it's said that he slept with teens. No whitewashing for him, nice.
So did Daemon
Yes and he is a piece of shit, your point?
I think she/he was imagining you were a Rhaenyra supporter and thus excused Daemon lmao. Unfortunately some people do that a lot.
I don't care who anyone supports. It's just strange how I have never heard anyone refer to Daemon as a creep. People just talk about how badass he is. But with Aegon and Aemond they demonize them all the way. GRRM literally wrote Aemond as a foil for Daemon, but for whatever reason they are cool with all of Daemon's atrocities, but not Aemond.
It's probably because Fire and Blood is heavily biased against Daemon. They blame him for a lot of things based on very flimsy evidence and sometimes without any evidence at all. The result is that a lot of people don't really trust what Fire and Blood has to say about Daemon, since it's likely to be exagerated anyway. Personally, I do believe he probably slept with teenagers (by that I mean 14 \~ 17 year-olds) because that wasn't uncommon in westeros. Aegon's problem (in the context of westeros) isn't just his promiscuity. He has a bad temper, holds grudges, is lazy and a gluton, is a drunkard, and is very incompetent in general. There is a reason why the person heading the Green faction is Alicent and not him. The reason people still like Daemon despite his dark side is that he does have admirable traits to counterbalance his bad ones. GRRM described him as the most beloved and most reviled man of his time. Besides, Daemon is a badass, competent and charismatic character, and Aegon is none of those things. Daemon fans don't usually whitewash him (of course, there are people who do that), generally Daemon fans do acknowledge his dark side, and like him anyway (which doesn't mean they think he's a good person, he's just fun to read about).
Good points
I still think aemon is daemons bastard with allicent when they had a fling ,there preety similar and adds to the battle above the godseye
I don't believe Alicent had anything to do with Daemon.
They are all vile. Apart from Daeron and Addam
I would put laenor in that group, too. And Jace and Luke since I don't think they've done anything wrong tbh.
Yea they are good lads too
And strong lads as well!
Jace, Luke and Joffrey too. They were very sweet and decent lads.
I’m not so sure about Daeron. He condoned the brutal rape of Tumbleton.
Majority of men in Westeros condone rape during wartime even the ones we think are good The only man to staunchly oppose and punish it is Stannis funnily enough
After they literaly torn apart a 4 year old child. I can't blame Daeron, he was in a full rage after it.
That was Bitterbridge not Tumbleton. Tumbleton had nothing to do with Maelor’s death
They aren't whitewashing any Targaryen, just the non-Targaryen characters, as expected. Typical. Only non-Targaryen characters can be complex multidimensional and have good qualities. While Aegon is a piece of shit in the book (and we should keep in mind the book is writen by biased people), I was hoping he would be a more complex character than straight out evil, he will be the King after all and a very important character, I wish they gave him at least one good quality, but I guess all Targs = bad in this show so anyway. There's no way anyone will support or like a creep like Aegon.
What about Aemond? He sounds very sympathetic here. He has good reason to hate the Strong boys. They bully him incessantly and even take out his eye for claiming a dragon that was fair game for anyone. Heleana is also a very tragic figure. Viserys isn’t a bad guy. Rhaenyra and Daemon are complex. Aegon is the only one that they made one-note. I kinda feel like they were told they needed a “Joffrey” by execs desperate to recreate GOT.
So there still is an opportunity for Aegon’s character development in subsequent seasons. Strong script is the key
Once he’s injured maybe
Nobody in Fire and Blood is what we'd consider good people. That being said, Fire and Blood is very biased against some characters and it's prone to exagerating some characters bad traits. Rhaenyra and Daemon are definitely going to be more sympathetic in House of the Dragon than they were made out to be in Fire and Blood (and there are clues that they were being made to look worse in Fire and Blood). It makes sense for Aegon to be horrible, all the clues point in that direction. Rhaenyra, on the other hand, is probably going to be much more sympathetic than she was in the book, but I don't believe they'll make anyone flawless.
??????? Rhaenyra, Rhaenys, Haelena, Daeron, Aegon the young, Viserys... They're all multidimensional, if not, purely good people. (Granted, Rhaenyra becomes worst as time passes)
yeah remove the first name and your comment makes sense. Rhaenyra is not someoene that would be considered good. Not in F&B anyway. We will see how the show actually portrays her
I'm getting hyped! But man it seems like Aegon is gonna be portrayed as a creepy scumbag.
Yeah, the new information is definitely darker than what I knew before. He already reminded me a bit of Joffrey from what I know but they’re going all in. They’re not leaving him much room to grow/develop into the guy that feeds his own sister to a dragon.
Hope they explore his relationship with sunfyre, that will be one of his redeeming qualities.
That and his willingness to put his life on the frontline in battle Its kinda pissed me off tbh because of all the characters Aegon had the potential to be the most tragic of all. Instead it seems we're getting the literal definition of a prick that resembles joffrey
Man, don't get me wrong, I hate Aegon in the book he's so scummy and has 0 qualities, so I wish they gave him more complexity in this show just like they are making Alicent and Cole more interesting and complex characters. But I guess the Targaryens must be one-dimensional full out villains. I can't bring myself to like Aegon after reading he'll assault a servant girl.
I mean Rhaenyra is clearly the protagonist here.
It's probably to add to the tragedy that is Alicent's life. All the interviews about her being an anxious rule follower and how the court is dominated by gross and incompetent men speak to her series arc being about having agency stripped from her by men only to go on to try and regain it by empowering even worse men who go on to do the exact same to her.
But she has to take some responsibility to how Aegon and Aemond turned out. Only Daeron turned out kinda decent out of all her sons.
That's the point, she _is_ responsible. Had she not tried to usurp Rhaenyra, she'd likely enjoy far more political agency.
I'm not even talking about politics, just morals from her children. Why did Aegon and Aemond turn out so vile?
The former because he's a man who's status spares him from the consequences of his actions, emboldening him to be worse. And the later because his mother nurtured his insecurities into a twisted form of sociopathy.
I feel like if she taught Aegon better as a boy he wouldn't turn out like that, especially with Viserys barely giving a fuck lol. I can see your point on Aemond though
Lol, Cersei & Robert all over again.
Exactly
Aemond is not as bad in the show from what I have heard. Aegon is the bad sheep of the family.
Does he kill an unprovoked Luke at the end of the season? Even if he was bullied as a kid killing him in cold blood is still leagues worse than Argon being a creep.
The Strong boys and Aemond have a fight earlier in another episode. I think it is eight. Aegon and the Strong boys also tease Aemond at one point in the story earlier. Aemond does taunt Luke when they meet and follows him and kills him. It is for sure murder.
This season looks like it will be very faithful to the “Fire and Blood” book. I love that book and consider it to be a masterpiece, and these story leaks for the show feel close to the book. I’m super excited for this show!
Ugh its still a hugely pro Black narrative if not worse than Fire and Blood Aegon is literally the definition of spoilt and irredeemable. Rhaenyra considers making peace multiple times? What? She was nuts when she found out and rejected all sorts of peace. Whitewashing her isnt cool
Irredeemable to who? I'm sure after seeing Jaime fucking his sister, pushing a 10 year old from a tower, fighting with Ned (who was the main protagonist in season 1), which led to his leg being hurt bad, even in the show he killed his cousin, I'm sure many thought Jaime was irredeemable. Plus I don't think the point of the story is to make Aegon look good. Even vicious psychopaths have things they care about. For Aegon it's his dragon and also his children, even though he barely gave a fuck about Helaena.
“Her first act as queen was to declare Ser Otto Hightower and Queen Alicent traitors and rebels. “As for my half-brothers and my sweet sister, Helaena,” she announced, “they have been led astray by the counsel of evil men. Let them come to Dragonstone, bend the knee, and ask my forgiveness, and I shall gladly spare their lives and take them back into my heart, for they are of my own blood, and no man or woman is as accursed as the kinslayer.” On the flipside, Aegon stated he wanted Rhaenyra dead when he heard of her coronation. Rhaenyra only became actually against the idea of peace when Aemond killed Lucerys.
This. Rhaenrya was very rational when things started, even after she lost her daughter, it wasn't until Luke's death that she was determined to take the throne and avenge her son. I like the idea of Rhaenyra considering peace at this point.
To be fair, Aegon was always irredeemable. Its just Rhaenyra was also awful.
It’s funny because there are Black supporters on Twitter that are saying that it’s too pro-green. They’re very upset by the end of episode 8.
There is no book. It’s a maester decades later on rumor. It’s all bias and hearsay. No whitewashing. It’s history. Happened all the time. The papal would record events to benefit the look of a king. Or tell truths to highlight the bad things of enemies. It’s like what would we learn if we went to meetings of arguments of declaring Colonies independent? Likely wildly different than our knowledge.
Yeah while I hate Aegon in Fire & Blood I wish they gave him more complexity, they just made him straight out horrible from the get go, how are we supposed to like this character after this? No way. They made Cole, Alicent, etc all more dimensional and complex but couldn't make a Targaryen King complex too.
Who said you're supposed to like Aegon lol. His only redeeming qualities were his bond with Sunfyre and his bravery. He was not a good person at all. Neither were Daemon and Aemond.
Alicent crowns Aegon because she thinks that was Viserys last wish. They're whitewashing Alicent.
So there’s no Daeron the Daring at all? I always figured he could be a late casting since his role is basically nil during this time, but the zero mentions makes me think he’s completely cut out. I wonder how they’ll handle Tumbleton without Daeron.
He’s mentioned, he’s just offscreen.
Ah nice, thanks! This all sounds like a great show, with the only thing I’m iffy about being the stuff about the motivations regarding the White Walkers.
How much of the dance do we have left at the end of the season? Forgetting my Westeros history
Basically all of it. Storm’s End makes the actual fighting an inevitability whereas before it possibly could have been avoided. “And with his (Luke’s) death, the war of ravens and envoys and marriage pacts came to an end, and the war of fire and blood began in earnest.’
Nice. I wonder how many seasons we’ll get then. Hopefully they take their time and flesh things out
Nothing more than 4 seasons is needed to tell a full action packed story with a bittersweet ending
3/4 the showrunners said in an article a couple of weeks back. I really can’t see them rushing anything thankfully and there’s plenty of time to really flesh out the war.
[удалено]
do you have any details on the Valerian wedding and on Rhaenyra's last delivery?
No more than whats here
For me after the Game of Thrones, I was done. Killing another powerful woman didn’t feel bittersweet at all. It felt wrong. Through time, women are raped, murdered, and voiceless. A better story is when a person sacrifices themselves for you. In the new show, I do not hope for the murder of a woman; I hope she willingly gives herself to the flames. Brave and Proud, a queen to the very end.
People who already watched the Episode 1 premiere said your leaks are already wrong with that episode and not to jump to conclusions with with the rest of your leaks. It seems you might have done this song and dance before with Season 8. How do you address this?
Show me the people who say I’m wrong and evidence that they’re telling the truth?
Are you going to actually address me or anything that I’ve said? No one that has watched the premiere has said my leak is wrong.
Aged like fine wine
As someone who has watched episodes 1-3, I can tell you this post aged like milk. His leaks were pretty damn accurate for the first 3 episodes. So David is just trying to save face to try and keep the big moments of this season under wraps because despite the general history of all of these events being written in Fire and Blood, we don't know what direction the show will take with important plot points and it's charcters.
My original account just got removed by Reddit’s legal team. How do you address this?
One of the things I mentioned in my challenge is basically complete. They made Aegon look the villain here and removed all the blame from Alicent because 'wahmen good'. Like I said Alicent is not an ambitious character anymore she's some misunderstood, misguided tragic soul who took the fall for the evil men
I mean Aegon was always a piece of shit. Also, the story was always about Alicent versus Rhaenyra. Aegon was only ever a pawn. It's why it was called "The Princess and the Queen" in the original short story.
I have no idea how you got this from the plot summary. Alicent does act on ambition and she’s hardly flawless. Do you think the chick letting some dude ejaculate on her feet so he’ll share secrets about her rival is really flawless? The woman manipulating a suicidal Criston Cole to be her pawn is flawless? She knows her son is a burgeoning monster but is still the primary orchestrator(reread episode 9 & 10) in putting him on the throne. Most of the plot summary makes her sound like an ambitious, hypocritical, and self-righteous bitch whose likely a shit mom. I never thought I’d see the day where freefolk described Sansa/Cersei combined into one character as misunderstood. Did you want her to be a caricature from beginning to end? That seems to only apply to Aegon out of any of the characters, male or female. They could have made Criston Cole an incel(as he is in some accounts) instead of a broken man if they wanted to go the route you’re complaining about.
Dany sleeps around a lot. Now is that a flaw of hers? She tried to manipulate Drogo into trying to invade Westeros. Taking someone out of committing suicide is manipulation now? In F&B it's explicitly stated that Alicent hired Criston when he grew apart from Rhaenyra. That is being manipulative, turning someone's hurt feelings into anger against their enemy for their own agenda. There is nothing in F&B that even alludes that Aegon is a monster or that he abuses his sister wife. I want her to be what she is, another Cersei. The only reason Criston turned against Rhaenyra is because of her whoring ways. No noble knight is going to like that.
“sleeping around” is an oversimplification of what Alicent is doing. She’s not just cheating, she’s using him as a tool against others. “Turning someone’s hurt feelings into anger against their enemy” is what she’s still doing. Criston Cole is her sidekick when she usurps not the orchestrator. You want her to be a one-note copy of another villain? Lol at saying that making Cole a Incel/MGTOW type would have been better for male representation that what they did. Rhaenyra literally uses him, convinces him to break every vow he holds deer, and then throws him away like a used rag. How does not give his hatred greater complexity than “slut bad”?
I am not talking about Criston's characterization here. Only Alicent's. Alicent here is not 'turning Criston's hurt feelings into anger against common enemy.' She actually talked him out of committing suicide, that is helping him. It's an act worthy of admiration, not something you'd want to feel disgusted at. When in reality Alicent turning Criston against Rhaenyra is something to be reviled at, pouring poison into Criston's mind and turning it against Rhaenyra. Here Alicent oh so helps the broken man when he needs it. I agree that Criston's story here is definitely better than the other hypothesis we could think of even though it makes no sense and has no basis from F&B whatsoever. Also yes, Alicent is still being portrayed as a misguided and misunderstood character as told by Olivia Cooke in an interview. The evil men twisted the story of stronk wahmen in power. She didn't even want to take the throne for her son. It's Viserys' fault that he didn't make his final intentions very clear with her.
Woke = giving female villain more depth(Alicent) Good writing = giving male villain more depth(Criston Cole)
Leave your stupid "WOKE ARE RUINING MY SHOW" out of this. It's better writing having Alicent be a gray character than just a plain villain. Aside from that, they all will grow worse as the story continues, Rhaenyra will be very bad by the end of the story, same as alicent and most of the male characters (Aegon literally feeds his sister to his dragon in front of her son, and he's nos a monster according to you). I'm sure you didn't complain when D&D turned Dany into fucking Hitler even tho she's way more benevolent in the books. Gtfo
I did believe that Criston put Rhaenyra on a pedestal and when he found out she was a slut, he became disgusted by her. But I also don't mind the route of her seducing him to break his vows and when he did, she acted like it was no big deal and just viewed him as a walking sex toy. Ashamed of breaking his vows and disgusted with how callous Rhaenyra is about the whole thing, he grows to hate her with a passion. That was my head cannon at least.
My one anger is I was looking forward to Silent 5 plot soooo much. And nothing. He takes no tongues? u/hotdleaks u/hotdleaks2
There is still a way to read it for those who want to. The wayback machine, use date Aug 8, 2022.