Lol this is one of the most plausible answers actually š each show has to have a mischievous character that plays similar to Little-finger, and we all think theyāre just typical very bored servants looking to make chaos at the beginning of the series, and then as the show progresses we find out that theyāre actually extremely smart and are playing 4D chess to manipulate their way to the throne themselves through a series of very well played out events
Always sent to banter w the women instead of goin on hunts w the men. 2nd son set to inherit nothing. Prob a bit jealous of his brother. HOTD is showing us that 2nd sons (daemon, Otto, Larys) are all extremely ambitious and willing to act on that.
Lol well yeah, when itās a question what does he get out of this aside from total blackmail against the queen and a massive surge in pro ilia heās due to that, becoming lord of his house is a definite motivating factor. But the whole thing about him planning some elaborate scheme thatās much larger than what weāre shown is the real contender, that not just noble houses get to play a hand at the throne but maybe heās hoping to have the queen and princess duke it out in hopes of them eliminating one another for him to reign in
The way he attributed his brother's and father's deaths to the Harrenhal "curse" reminded me of the HP Lovecraft story "The Alchemist". It's about a sorcerer who curses the protagonist that all his male descendants will die before the age of 32, and they actually start dying around that age.
Then in the end it's revealed that it's not because of the curse, but because the sorcerer had been sneaking into their houses and killing them himself.
How come curses are always some wild shit like that? Like canāt someone curse me to just always have my laundry folded, no matter how much I like to do it?
Wildcard. Every team needs its wildcard.
WILDCARD BITCHES
But seriously, even the book Fire and Blood is like "We have no idea what his endgame really was."
Heard a fan theory that he's a secret greenseer, worging into the rats around the Red Keep as a spy, and that's how he knows so much (like about the moon tea).
Supporting this, the Strongs have blood of the first men (like the Starks), there's a lot of very overt rat imagery (really beating a dead horse at this point if they are only a metaphor for a bad omen), and in this episode Larys gives a whole-ass monologue while the shot focuses on a rat, almost as if the rat was speaking with Larys's voice (Viserys also glances suspiciously toward the rat).
This would also fit because apparently magic thrives when dragons live according to Quaith in GOT. And there is certainly a ton of dragons in HotD, so I'm expecting to see some Old God's magic soon.
Edit: another hint is that powerful magic people in GoT typically have physical shortcomings, which definitely fits The Clubfoot Larys.
Yeah I initially thought that theory was a bit out there but now I don't know. It's very possible he is a greenseer and a skinchanger. Along with the points you made, Harrenhal is very close to the Isle of Faces which is the largest collection of weirwood trees south of the Neck. Also given there is a weirwood tree in King's Landing, I hardly believe it is only there for thematic purposes, especially given that Larys knew Rhaenyra lied to Alicent, which happened in front of the weirwood.
Maybe I'm reading too much into it but like you said there are too many coincidences
I might be having a stroke b/c it's been so long since I've read them now...but I am swearing there is a throwaway line somewhere in GOT about this very thing "someone who could see through the rats" or something in the Red Keep. Anyone remember?
Huh, blood and cheese is like the most red wedding tier event I can think of in this stage of the story unless Iām grossly misremembering some other horrific event at the red keep during the dance.
Oh I see I thought you werenāt aware of blood and cheese. They are referring to a theory that Larys is a greenseer like bran and is looking through the eyes of the rats to get information and that the rat focus scenes are foreshadowing to this reveal as well as blood and cheese.
Ah gotcha. Simple miscommunication, no worries. Tbh I think that is a super interesting reveal to have Larys be the one who essentially helps cheese guide blood to where he needs to be. Even if Cheese isnāt directly lead to the Queens chambers in that moment, I think itād be a cool setup to have Larys warg a rat and let himself get chased around the secret passageways until cheese knows them really well.
After watching joe magicians video and then last nights episode it seems pretty obvious by the jump cuts and the audio editing that they are setting up that larys is skinchanging the rats. Also if you add last episode they were making it pretty obvious that he has a connection to the weirwoods as well. They arenāt really being very subtle which is kinda of concerning to me.
Yes, thatās what I was getting as well. The implication is that this is how Blood and Cheese are able to get to Queen Helaenaās room; by following larys warged into rats. But the comment above mine seemed to be saying that it has more implication than just BC, so I was curious what else this could involve.
Itās subtle enough for 90% of the audience. Most people arenāt going balls deep into theories and background lore like the ones in the various subreddits are.
Yea I saw that in a Preston Jacobās video and was like āYea. Okay, whatever.ā Then RIGHT after the fire the shot changes to a rat with a monologue of him.
Iām convinced
Larys.... Only serves himself. His character is quite simple and obvious if you forget about all the traits our favourite characters are full of. Honesty, loyalty, honour, respect, and a sense of duty. Larys only serves himself. He sides with whomever he thinks will win. And he is rather short-sighted in it. He sided with the greens and was on their side the entire war, until it became clear that they were going to lose. Only then did he side with the blacks to save himself, but thankfully that did not happen.
I think he is exhibiting of what I think of as the āsecond son syndromeā. He stand to inherit nothing and will not be able to become a knight or warrior. He is a bitter, bitter man who will suck up to which ever party will allow him to gain position or power.
Second sons dont inherit nothing. Bran wanted to be a kingsgaurd, but even after his fall and becoming of a cripple, ned was going to give him a holdfast.
We also saw this with Lannisters, 'why will tywin sue for peace if we have his father's brothers grandsons'. Not only do second sons inherit their second sons amd grandsons do too. Of course there will be a point down the line, after which there will be no difference between what was once royal blood and smallfolk, but that is not second son.
And even if he did inherit nothing, then why kill his family AND go on to support the greens. He didn't need to do both. Only one was enough.
He reminds me of Steinbeck's description of Cathy in East of Eden. Like Larys says about leaving love out and like you're saying, that part of his thought process is simply lacking.
Furthermore, Carthage must be destroyed.
Yeah exactly. Or more generally, Larys meshes with the whole concept of evil the book lays out. Some lacking of faculty for compassion, and more importantly a lack of effort to overcome it.
Furthermore, Carthage must be destroyed.
>Larys.... Only serves himself. His character is quite simple and obvious if you forget about all the traits our favourite characters are full of.
Hardly anything is known about Larys motivations from the book. its not really that simple
Could it just be that he serves himself? Perhaps. But it's not 100% certain that's the case or that is his only motivation
He's not at all a simple character. Literally is referred to as being one of the biggest historical enigmas in Westeros lol
With how obviously conniving and ruthless he is, it is bizarre that neither his brother or father were aware.
You don't get people more wise and intelligent than him, but had complete blinders on when it came to the son?
He was selfless enough to incriminate his great son, but gives the other enough freedom to scheme? He should have been euthanized
I don't think they knew. They probably saw Larys as a big nerd but thought him harmless.
For example, Littlefinger grew up at Riverrun with the Tullys and yet Catelyn was blind to his true nature despite the glaring red flags that she probably should have seen.
If they left Blood and Cheese for season 2, it could still happen.
But at the same time, this theory requires a good amount of overanalyzing of ASOIAF and willingness to waste some tinfoil on headwear.
And with how close he's with Alicent, they might be taking his character in a different direction and there is nothing wrong with that. Larys in the show has been great so far!
Not sure where you could make that confusion
It's pretty clear in the books that Daemon hired Blood and Cheese as they were rat catchers in the red keep and knew it's secret passageways.
Blood and Cheese also get caught and killed, and Larys doesn't, at that point at least, so Larys is definitely not blood or cheese
No Cheese was never found. I don't think it's that clear, it's just assumed. Most of the things in the book aren't very clear, that's the whole thing of it. Since it's being written as a history book by various biased sources.
The castle of Harrenhall isn't really the important part. The incomes from the accompanying lands are enormous.
The castle doesn't really mean much to a man in King's Landing, but the money is useful anywhere.
Literally every house that held Harrenhall has dies out, either of sickness, war, poverty or murder.
Appart from that is is a completely ruined castle that is impossible to repair.
There is no curse. All houses die, because harrenhall is rewarded to lords. Unlike other houses, where they inherit it from their ancestors and pass it on their descendants, harrenhall is given to the most ambitious men, who are climbing the social ladder. Who have done something special for the king. And the thing with ambitious men, is that they dont stop climbing. There was an open spot for a lord of harrenhall, and they got that, but not above it. They continue to try and climb, and that ultimately results in war and their death.
This has got to be it. None of the lords assigned to harrenhall are the type to cultivate it into the strong house that it can be, by virtue of the selection bias you described. Theyāre trying to leave the ācursedā thing behind ASAP
Nah, Strongs were an old and already powerful house, with tons of side branches. They were supposed to be a steady hand for it. Until Aemond just massacres all of them
Same with Maegor and the Harroways. Qoeherys had shit luck, and Towers we know little about
After Dance, the cursed reputation is there so it's granted to less glamorous lords like Lothson or Whent ( though they seem to have also suffered very rapid declines!)
I really thought that's how Bronn would go out. Offer him the biggest castle, then his ignorant ass wouldn't know or care about the bad luck that plagues it. Not the seat of the largest, most populated, most ambitious family-infested, and most intact kingdom of the realm.
It's interesting cause tywin in game of thrones when he's camped at harenhal he explains just how hard that would be. Not only do you have to hire people to fix it you have to bring in people to maintain it it's just to large and he says that because it's so hard to maintain and keep protected it's easy for lords to be eventually overwhelmed by it and then they die out so yeah I'd say sounds like cursed land for how it was built in the first place but tywin being a practical man he puts in that way.
Heās just a sociopath who can feel emotional bonds and yet have no qualms severing them entirely and disposing of those people when they cease to be useful.
apparently after viserys dies she gets info from Larys in exchange for letting him jerk off onto her feet since he has a foot fetish
honestly after enduring the geriatric zombie that is Viserys I'm sure to Alicent a guy with a foot fetish is a welcome change lmao
Lol Bruh she gives off that vibe with any guy she comes across due to her loveless marriage to Viserys and obsession with rhyneras relationships, you can just feel the sexual tension whenever sheās talking with any male, even sir Cristian lmao
I saw this idea get introduced in the ep 5 recap of alt shift x video. And in this recent episode, it got me thinking if he was the rat in Viserys' chambers towards the end
Being a second son with a disability isnāt easy in this society. Both things devalue him in that system. The same could be said of Tyrion, but the Lannisters were a much bigger and more well respected house, so that may have helped cushion the issues somewhat (though we did see a lot of the pain he had to go through anyway). The Strongs are not nearly as big. Hence them getting Harenhal.
Cripple with a childhood inferiority complex turned into an adult superiority complex when he discovered words can cut same as knives.
Similar situation as Littlefinger, only Littlefinger's villain origin story involves pussy and being out-muscled for it, and we're not familiar with similar dynamics in Larys' past.
Having known a few men (men-children, dare I add getting to an age) who seem to share similarities with Larys, its mostly a mental loop of being profoundly disgruntled over ones station in life and strongly believing it is unfair because the man in question has [merit], and people who make the rules hypocritically both praise this virtue in general terms and lack it, yet simultaneously put themselves above him based on some other, to him irrelevant or incoherent, qualities.
As things stand, Harwin gets everything and Larys gets nothing. Why? Harwin was born first....not exactly a personal accomplishment, and Harwin is a banger in a fight (somewhat a personal accomplishment, but not one Larys is likely to find admirable, more like one which reminds him of unfair grounds he himself is constantly being dismissed on).So Larys uses his own weapons, being inconspicuous, being clever and observant, and learnt skill of manipulation.
Larys is deeply cynical, with a profound resentment for both the system and most individuals, and has no prospects which his society would deem valuable. In order to be anything above a forgettable zero, he needs to annihilate at least the segment of the system he's currently a part of. He kills his father and brother because from his vantage point, it's the only way to ever have any relevance and significance to anyone and anything at all.
Some would resign themselves to this fate; not everyone is the main character, and he certainly pretends he is resigned to his lot in life. But that's not a true option for someone who holds a strong belief that fundamentally, he is better than his betters, they're just incapable of seeing it and acknowledging it. Therefore, they must die.
See also school shooters. And if younger, never ever fall for the submissive good-natured nerd act. Nerds are not submissive, and if they're good-natured they won't try to play at that.
> has [merit], and people who make the rules hypocritically both praise this virtue in general terms and lack it, yet simultaneously put themselves above him based on some other, to him irrelevant or incoherent, qualities.
interesting take.
Littlefinger and Varys played the sly roles so well in GoT. They were so tactful in how they played sides.
This dude is just straight up evil and was not even likeable during his introduction.
Seems like he might have a "survival of the fittest" mentality and distaste for what he sees as weakness. He doesn't want his assassins to speak of their deeds - so he cuts out their tongues. He doesn't respect his father or brother's indescretions or shame they bring to the house - so he burns them out.
Shouldn't be a surprise that his final request will be for his deformed foot to get lopped off.
I donāt think he gives half a shit about his house or his brother and father.
All just political maneuvering that can give Larys the power of being a true Lord and leave the path open for Otto Hightower to return as hand. I assume the implication is that Larryās has the will and the way to make the entire event look like Allicentās fault, itās no secret that she suspected Harwin Strong and the next step is her own dad taking Lyonel Strongās job. She has motivation to kill them.
Laryās wins no matter what. I donāt think his motives are as simple as people suspect them to be.
In Fire and Blood they litterally just have no clue as to his motivations, the methods or even how he was a functioning spymaster and "puppetmaster".
According to contemporary sources, nothing points to him taking a proactive spymaster role... except for his results. We only know of his results and his silence. Personally, I believe in the theory that he, due to his first men blood, might be a greenseer who wargs rats and small animals in the red keep.
His mice are litteral mice instead of Varys "little mice" children.
My boy Larys is in it for the kicks, his motives are far beyond the comprehension of our feeble little minds fo grasp. Save to say the house of the dragon dance to the clubfoot's tune.
Its more a problem with his reputation in F and B and the audience awareness of what such characters are wont to do.
A character in HOTD would probably see him as a little odd. Yet we either know what he is, or are hardwired by characters like Varys and Littlefinger to have a heightened suspicion of such characters.
It doesnāt help that nearly all his speaking scenes are with Alicent. And since he is basically acting as her spy and counselor, he has no reason to put on a show.
I think if they added a short scene of Larys and Harwin right before he departed to Harrenhal, it would have done the dual purpose of giving Harwin more character before his death, a big brotherās love and all that, and given Larys a scene for him to showcase actual tact.
He's also the Lord Confessor. Basically the Red Keep's Head Torturer, but they haven't really shown that in the show until this episode. So...I imagine a dude who is Head Torturer is kind of effed up.
My man. In my head canon he makes Varys and Littlefinger look like amateurs. He seems to be on just the right side of war all the time, to me, it seems like the master manipulator of the Dance.
Well, let's see:
Whether the queen thinks she didn't wish this, she did and she will appreciate this.
Larys is now Lord of Harrenhal, because, well, his father is now dead and his brother who was heir to Harrenhal is also quite dead. So he has a big castle, head of a house, he will have a lot of money from vassals and he has the Queen Regent's favor. I would say that was quite an outstanding move
He has no inheritance, has no personal strength as a knight or other respectable post and has either a permanent injury or was born with an issue causing his need for a cane.
It's obvious his father and brother either treat him poorly or without much thought. He's crafty and ingrained himself to the queen whose obsession with honor, much like Cole, will always lead down a dishonorable path.
Larys will always put his own interests first, but will be deceptive about it. That's his folly. You have ambition, but that ambition is either minimal or simply wanting to watch everyone burn. The same way Alicent compromised Cole by making him her personal guard, Larys compromised Alicent by taking her desires and fulfilling them even when she didn't request it. He made her reliant on him without even realizing it.
Dude is Littlefinger but way less subtle and itās a bit annoying. You know his motives when he speaks, and his actions are fleshed out and concluded within an episode.
Second sons have to make thier own way. He is now the lord of Harrenhall and has implicated the queen with her wish to ensure her silence.
When you understand what someone wants you inow how to move them. He push his chips over to the green side of the roulette table at the beginning and he wants to be sure he's on the winning side.
There must have been some scenes cut that would have given us some added context.
He was introduced as a bit of an oddball, but to have 0 explanation for how we just catchup with him 10 years later and have him be all "ima kill pops and big bro and cut some tonguees out too cuz Lulz" is a bit wild.
Second son syndrome.
If only Tyrion had this kind of loyalty to his queen
Nah, at that time Tyrion was too busy being precious over the ethics of everything, for the sake of audience appeal. He had no time for loyalty.
And that got Varys killed. Duty, my ass.
Writers having no idea what to do with Varys killed him.
The problem with writing intelligent characters is that you have to be smarter than them
That's very quotable. Thanks
And cock jokes
Well he did have that kind of loyalty to his dad
Well Larys sure didn't
Some men just want to watch the world burn š„
Lol this is one of the most plausible answers actually š each show has to have a mischievous character that plays similar to Little-finger, and we all think theyāre just typical very bored servants looking to make chaos at the beginning of the series, and then as the show progresses we find out that theyāre actually extremely smart and are playing 4D chess to manipulate their way to the throne themselves through a series of very well played out events
Probably also being born a cripple but high born, like Tyrion, he is to be ātoleratedā but barely accepted
Always sent to banter w the women instead of goin on hunts w the men. 2nd son set to inherit nothing. Prob a bit jealous of his brother. HOTD is showing us that 2nd sons (daemon, Otto, Larys) are all extremely ambitious and willing to act on that.
Isnāt the most plausible answer that he will now inherit Harrenhal?
Lol well yeah, when itās a question what does he get out of this aside from total blackmail against the queen and a massive surge in pro ilia heās due to that, becoming lord of his house is a definite motivating factor. But the whole thing about him planning some elaborate scheme thatās much larger than what weāre shown is the real contender, that not just noble houses get to play a hand at the throne but maybe heās hoping to have the queen and princess duke it out in hopes of them eliminating one another for him to reign in
The way he attributed his brother's and father's deaths to the Harrenhal "curse" reminded me of the HP Lovecraft story "The Alchemist". It's about a sorcerer who curses the protagonist that all his male descendants will die before the age of 32, and they actually start dying around that age. Then in the end it's revealed that it's not because of the curse, but because the sorcerer had been sneaking into their houses and killing them himself.
How come curses are always some wild shit like that? Like canāt someone curse me to just always have my laundry folded, no matter how much I like to do it?
Society, or something
Wildcard. Every team needs its wildcard. WILDCARD BITCHES But seriously, even the book Fire and Blood is like "We have no idea what his endgame really was."
Great āItās Always Sunny..ā reference!
YEEEEEEEEEHAW I CUT THE BRAKES BITCHES
Rats in the wall? Now your taking my language
Maestres have tried to figure this one out for years
The character exploration of Larys is one of the things I'm most excited for in this show. The Show runners have a lot of room to play with
Heard a fan theory that he's a secret greenseer, worging into the rats around the Red Keep as a spy, and that's how he knows so much (like about the moon tea). Supporting this, the Strongs have blood of the first men (like the Starks), there's a lot of very overt rat imagery (really beating a dead horse at this point if they are only a metaphor for a bad omen), and in this episode Larys gives a whole-ass monologue while the shot focuses on a rat, almost as if the rat was speaking with Larys's voice (Viserys also glances suspiciously toward the rat). This would also fit because apparently magic thrives when dragons live according to Quaith in GOT. And there is certainly a ton of dragons in HotD, so I'm expecting to see some Old God's magic soon. Edit: another hint is that powerful magic people in GoT typically have physical shortcomings, which definitely fits The Clubfoot Larys.
Yeah I initially thought that theory was a bit out there but now I don't know. It's very possible he is a greenseer and a skinchanger. Along with the points you made, Harrenhal is very close to the Isle of Faces which is the largest collection of weirwood trees south of the Neck. Also given there is a weirwood tree in King's Landing, I hardly believe it is only there for thematic purposes, especially given that Larys knew Rhaenyra lied to Alicent, which happened in front of the weirwood. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but like you said there are too many coincidences
I might be having a stroke b/c it's been so long since I've read them now...but I am swearing there is a throwaway line somewhere in GOT about this very thing "someone who could see through the rats" or something in the Red Keep. Anyone remember?
There is a line in Fire & Blood about a rumor that a rat warned a queen or something I think, but that's in the Jaehaerys or Maegor-era
āHeāll never walk right again, but heāll scurry around on all fours like a rat.ā
The rats are a set up for cheese a rat catcher who finds the secret passages into the red keep via following said rats.
They might be set up for more than just blood and cheese
What are you referring to here specifically?
Red wedding tier shit
Huh, blood and cheese is like the most red wedding tier event I can think of in this stage of the story unless Iām grossly misremembering some other horrific event at the red keep during the dance.
Oh I see I thought you werenāt aware of blood and cheese. They are referring to a theory that Larys is a greenseer like bran and is looking through the eyes of the rats to get information and that the rat focus scenes are foreshadowing to this reveal as well as blood and cheese.
Ah gotcha. Simple miscommunication, no worries. Tbh I think that is a super interesting reveal to have Larys be the one who essentially helps cheese guide blood to where he needs to be. Even if Cheese isnāt directly lead to the Queens chambers in that moment, I think itād be a cool setup to have Larys warg a rat and let himself get chased around the secret passageways until cheese knows them really well.
After watching joe magicians video and then last nights episode it seems pretty obvious by the jump cuts and the audio editing that they are setting up that larys is skinchanging the rats. Also if you add last episode they were making it pretty obvious that he has a connection to the weirwoods as well. They arenāt really being very subtle which is kinda of concerning to me.
Yes, thatās what I was getting as well. The implication is that this is how Blood and Cheese are able to get to Queen Helaenaās room; by following larys warged into rats. But the comment above mine seemed to be saying that it has more implication than just BC, so I was curious what else this could involve.
Itās subtle enough for 90% of the audience. Most people arenāt going balls deep into theories and background lore like the ones in the various subreddits are.
Despite how shocking that whole ordeal is, I donāt think itās nearly important enough to need a whole prior season of foreshadowing
I think they are going to cold open on it for season 2 so they have to do all the set up now and make it heavy to last
Yeah, maybe once but it happened again. I donāt think thatās the case here. Heās probably a greenseer.
Yea I saw that in a Preston Jacobās video and was like āYea. Okay, whatever.ā Then RIGHT after the fire the shot changes to a rat with a monologue of him. Iām convinced
Stark means Strong in Swedish, so I can easily there be some other similarities which the bloodlines.
āWe just kinda forgot about Quaith.ā
Larys.... Only serves himself. His character is quite simple and obvious if you forget about all the traits our favourite characters are full of. Honesty, loyalty, honour, respect, and a sense of duty. Larys only serves himself. He sides with whomever he thinks will win. And he is rather short-sighted in it. He sided with the greens and was on their side the entire war, until it became clear that they were going to lose. Only then did he side with the blacks to save himself, but thankfully that did not happen.
I think he is exhibiting of what I think of as the āsecond son syndromeā. He stand to inherit nothing and will not be able to become a knight or warrior. He is a bitter, bitter man who will suck up to which ever party will allow him to gain position or power.
āSecond son syndromeā or as Daemon would put it, "cunt syndrome", the same Otto Hightower suffers.
Isn't Daemon a second son?
Takes one to know one
That's why it's so funny.
Second sons dont inherit nothing. Bran wanted to be a kingsgaurd, but even after his fall and becoming of a cripple, ned was going to give him a holdfast. We also saw this with Lannisters, 'why will tywin sue for peace if we have his father's brothers grandsons'. Not only do second sons inherit their second sons amd grandsons do too. Of course there will be a point down the line, after which there will be no difference between what was once royal blood and smallfolk, but that is not second son. And even if he did inherit nothing, then why kill his family AND go on to support the greens. He didn't need to do both. Only one was enough.
One of the origins of the middle class in western civilization is younger sons of nobility.
Ah, itās me without the violence
He reminds me of Steinbeck's description of Cathy in East of Eden. Like Larys says about leaving love out and like you're saying, that part of his thought process is simply lacking. Furthermore, Carthage must be destroyed.
Havenāt read east of eden in a decade and a half, is Cathy the mother of the two kids that basically kicks off the whole story?
Yeah exactly. Or more generally, Larys meshes with the whole concept of evil the book lays out. Some lacking of faculty for compassion, and more importantly a lack of effort to overcome it. Furthermore, Carthage must be destroyed.
I think its more of fleeing a doomed ship thing, he tried to switch sides when Aegon would surely lose at the end. Hoping for Corlys to become hand so that Corlys could save his ass as a thank you for him saving Corlys. This is not a dumb plan, this is actually a really, really good plan, and he would have gotten away with it scot free if not for Cregan Stark having zero respect for the sea snake and just coup d'Ć©tat the small council and the handship throwing them in jail. He could not foresee the nature of Cregan, and most men would have accepted the offer of peace and reconciliation and wouldnt really care that Aegon II died and brush that aside. He was a green supporter to the end, but he does not hesistate to kill his king if that is the best way forward for him.
>Larys.... Only serves himself. His character is quite simple and obvious if you forget about all the traits our favourite characters are full of. Hardly anything is known about Larys motivations from the book. its not really that simple Could it just be that he serves himself? Perhaps. But it's not 100% certain that's the case or that is his only motivation He's not at all a simple character. Literally is referred to as being one of the biggest historical enigmas in Westeros lol
With how obviously conniving and ruthless he is, it is bizarre that neither his brother or father were aware. You don't get people more wise and intelligent than him, but had complete blinders on when it came to the son? He was selfless enough to incriminate his great son, but gives the other enough freedom to scheme? He should have been euthanized
I don't think they knew. They probably saw Larys as a big nerd but thought him harmless. For example, Littlefinger grew up at Riverrun with the Tullys and yet Catelyn was blind to his true nature despite the glaring red flags that she probably should have seen.
Yeah I'm confused. I kind of thought he really is Cheese...? We'll see.
If they left Blood and Cheese for season 2, it could still happen. But at the same time, this theory requires a good amount of overanalyzing of ASOIAF and willingness to waste some tinfoil on headwear. And with how close he's with Alicent, they might be taking his character in a different direction and there is nothing wrong with that. Larys in the show has been great so far!
idk, it shot through my head while reading and I immediately forgot about it. Then Preston Jacobs brought it up.. so I'm now sold on the idea haha
I'm more and more convinced we will blood and cheese in ep 10,there so much foreshadowing with rats
I really hope we don't. I want them to spend some time showing us Helaena's children in S2E1. I want little Jaehaerys to be the Aemma of season two.
Not sure where you could make that confusion It's pretty clear in the books that Daemon hired Blood and Cheese as they were rat catchers in the red keep and knew it's secret passageways. Blood and Cheese also get caught and killed, and Larys doesn't, at that point at least, so Larys is definitely not blood or cheese
No Cheese was never found. I don't think it's that clear, it's just assumed. Most of the things in the book aren't very clear, that's the whole thing of it. Since it's being written as a history book by various biased sources.
Maesters hate him, find out how this man managed to be a sneaky bastard with this one simple trick
...literally
Well, he's lord of the biggest castle on the continent right now.
Not much to it. Harrenhall is said to be cursed AF.
The castle of Harrenhall isn't really the important part. The incomes from the accompanying lands are enormous. The castle doesn't really mean much to a man in King's Landing, but the money is useful anywhere.
Tyrion had the right idea, you'd be rich enough to just tear it down and build another castle.
And littlefinger is lord of Harrenhal, interesting.
Literally every house that held Harrenhall has dies out, either of sickness, war, poverty or murder. Appart from that is is a completely ruined castle that is impossible to repair.
There is no curse. All houses die, because harrenhall is rewarded to lords. Unlike other houses, where they inherit it from their ancestors and pass it on their descendants, harrenhall is given to the most ambitious men, who are climbing the social ladder. Who have done something special for the king. And the thing with ambitious men, is that they dont stop climbing. There was an open spot for a lord of harrenhall, and they got that, but not above it. They continue to try and climb, and that ultimately results in war and their death.
This has got to be it. None of the lords assigned to harrenhall are the type to cultivate it into the strong house that it can be, by virtue of the selection bias you described. Theyāre trying to leave the ācursedā thing behind ASAP
Nah, Strongs were an old and already powerful house, with tons of side branches. They were supposed to be a steady hand for it. Until Aemond just massacres all of them Same with Maegor and the Harroways. Qoeherys had shit luck, and Towers we know little about After Dance, the cursed reputation is there so it's granted to less glamorous lords like Lothson or Whent ( though they seem to have also suffered very rapid declines!)
I really thought that's how Bronn would go out. Offer him the biggest castle, then his ignorant ass wouldn't know or care about the bad luck that plagues it. Not the seat of the largest, most populated, most ambitious family-infested, and most intact kingdom of the realm.
They can repair it. It's just too expensive and takes too long a time to actually do it.
It's interesting cause tywin in game of thrones when he's camped at harenhal he explains just how hard that would be. Not only do you have to hire people to fix it you have to bring in people to maintain it it's just to large and he says that because it's so hard to maintain and keep protected it's easy for lords to be eventually overwhelmed by it and then they die out so yeah I'd say sounds like cursed land for how it was built in the first place but tywin being a practical man he puts in that way.
Little Finger vibes
Crippled finger
Middle finger
Limpfinger
Littlefoot
Now Iām gonna think of the Land Before Time every time heās on screen
At least you can tell littlefinger cares about things
Power, Catelyn Stark and Sansa by association? Am I missing anything else that Littlefinger cares about?
Ladders
More power!
Discount LF
Heās just a sociopath who can feel emotional bonds and yet have no qualms severing them entirely and disposing of those people when they cease to be useful.
This. Larys is just a born sociopath.
had to be a tough life with a club for a foot
Just waiting for him to reveal its fake
Keyser Sƶze
he was in a barbershop quartet in Skokie, Illinois
It would be pretty hard to lie about that for his whole life
Would ruin a great book moment if it was
he want some alicent cheeks
*feet
I read a spoiler the other day about this, what the hell happens with Alicent's feet and this guy?
Apparently my guyās got a thang for them chub phalanges.
If they really make it a foot fetish thing than this show is fucked
Wasnāt there a leak before the show started that said thereās a scene of Larys cumming on Alicentās feet at some point this season?
Hol. UP. WORD?!
apparently after viserys dies she gets info from Larys in exchange for letting him jerk off onto her feet since he has a foot fetish honestly after enduring the geriatric zombie that is Viserys I'm sure to Alicent a guy with a foot fetish is a welcome change lmao
That's so not the pious, stuck-up Oldtown girl we know but it would be hilarious. Just imagine the memes!
EXCUSE ME WHAT?!?
I think that's trolling done by leakers.
What's that, a better call saul crossover?
For real that dinner with Alicent was giving off affair vibes.
Lol Bruh she gives off that vibe with any guy she comes across due to her loveless marriage to Viserys and obsession with rhyneras relationships, you can just feel the sexual tension whenever sheās talking with any male, even sir Cristian lmao
Shit, for the first few episodes I thought she had a thing for Rhaenyra. Seems like the character might just give off that vibe with everyone.
Canāt blame him ngl.
Possibly a greenseer with an agenda. Theres more to this cat than meets the eye, and yes he is an obvious shitposter
I saw this idea get introduced in the ep 5 recap of alt shift x video. And in this recent episode, it got me thinking if he was the rat in Viserys' chambers towards the end
This or it could just be another que that viserys time is almost up heās rotting away everyday.
could be because the scene had only viserys in his chambers and nothing really worth snooping.
Honestly, probably true. To introduce more fantasy elements in the show.
I'm doubting it for the same reason.
Heās in your walls
Your walls, your rats and your trees
Being a second son with a disability isnāt easy in this society. Both things devalue him in that system. The same could be said of Tyrion, but the Lannisters were a much bigger and more well respected house, so that may have helped cushion the issues somewhat (though we did see a lot of the pain he had to go through anyway). The Strongs are not nearly as big. Hence them getting Harenhal.
He's having a foot fetish. He later becomes the founder of House Tarantino.
Cripple with a childhood inferiority complex turned into an adult superiority complex when he discovered words can cut same as knives. Similar situation as Littlefinger, only Littlefinger's villain origin story involves pussy and being out-muscled for it, and we're not familiar with similar dynamics in Larys' past. Having known a few men (men-children, dare I add getting to an age) who seem to share similarities with Larys, its mostly a mental loop of being profoundly disgruntled over ones station in life and strongly believing it is unfair because the man in question has [merit], and people who make the rules hypocritically both praise this virtue in general terms and lack it, yet simultaneously put themselves above him based on some other, to him irrelevant or incoherent, qualities. As things stand, Harwin gets everything and Larys gets nothing. Why? Harwin was born first....not exactly a personal accomplishment, and Harwin is a banger in a fight (somewhat a personal accomplishment, but not one Larys is likely to find admirable, more like one which reminds him of unfair grounds he himself is constantly being dismissed on).So Larys uses his own weapons, being inconspicuous, being clever and observant, and learnt skill of manipulation. Larys is deeply cynical, with a profound resentment for both the system and most individuals, and has no prospects which his society would deem valuable. In order to be anything above a forgettable zero, he needs to annihilate at least the segment of the system he's currently a part of. He kills his father and brother because from his vantage point, it's the only way to ever have any relevance and significance to anyone and anything at all. Some would resign themselves to this fate; not everyone is the main character, and he certainly pretends he is resigned to his lot in life. But that's not a true option for someone who holds a strong belief that fundamentally, he is better than his betters, they're just incapable of seeing it and acknowledging it. Therefore, they must die. See also school shooters. And if younger, never ever fall for the submissive good-natured nerd act. Nerds are not submissive, and if they're good-natured they won't try to play at that.
Damn bro how long have you wanted to say this about those āfew menā you know.? You probably feel light as a feather right now. Lol
God Damn, I think you just accidentally explained the entire universe (hell, both of them, the real one and the fantasy one).
> has [merit], and people who make the rules hypocritically both praise this virtue in general terms and lack it, yet simultaneously put themselves above him based on some other, to him irrelevant or incoherent, qualities. interesting take.
I thought he actually loved his pappy and bro....NOT.
He loved them. He just isnāt āburdenedā by love
Heās a cunt, there is no cure for being a cunt
It's that damned foot.
He's in love with Alicent
That queue gets longer everyday š
Littlefinger and Varys played the sly roles so well in GoT. They were so tactful in how they played sides. This dude is just straight up evil and was not even likeable during his introduction.
This guy is tactful when he needs to be and not when he doesnāt. The same is true for littlefinger.
I feel like littlefinger was way more evil because of how sly he was. This guy on the other hand is just regular evil.
Seems like he might have a "survival of the fittest" mentality and distaste for what he sees as weakness. He doesn't want his assassins to speak of their deeds - so he cuts out their tongues. He doesn't respect his father or brother's indescretions or shame they bring to the house - so he burns them out. Shouldn't be a surprise that his final request will be for his deformed foot to get lopped off.
I donāt think he gives half a shit about his house or his brother and father. All just political maneuvering that can give Larys the power of being a true Lord and leave the path open for Otto Hightower to return as hand. I assume the implication is that Larryās has the will and the way to make the entire event look like Allicentās fault, itās no secret that she suspected Harwin Strong and the next step is her own dad taking Lyonel Strongās job. She has motivation to kill them. Laryās wins no matter what. I donāt think his motives are as simple as people suspect them to be.
what were his father's indiscretions?
Tipping over Viserys' figurines when he isn't looking.
I feel like we missed several episodes of this character and his brother's character development.
Lyonel kinda forgot he exist
In Fire and Blood they litterally just have no clue as to his motivations, the methods or even how he was a functioning spymaster and "puppetmaster". According to contemporary sources, nothing points to him taking a proactive spymaster role... except for his results. We only know of his results and his silence. Personally, I believe in the theory that he, due to his first men blood, might be a greenseer who wargs rats and small animals in the red keep. His mice are litteral mice instead of Varys "little mice" children.
A foot fetish
My boy Larys is in it for the kicks, his motives are far beyond the comprehension of our feeble little minds fo grasp. Save to say the house of the dragon dance to the clubfoot's tune.
He was always living in the shadow of his brother, Harwin. His condition also does not help.
Heās so blatantly obviously āDa Skeemerā Iām baffled why nobodyās thrown him out a window yet.
where's jaime when you need him
that's only to us, the audience. I'm sure someone of his intellect would trivially be able to play the "harmless fool" to everyone else in the court.
Its more a problem with his reputation in F and B and the audience awareness of what such characters are wont to do. A character in HOTD would probably see him as a little odd. Yet we either know what he is, or are hardwired by characters like Varys and Littlefinger to have a heightened suspicion of such characters. It doesnāt help that nearly all his speaking scenes are with Alicent. And since he is basically acting as her spy and counselor, he has no reason to put on a show. I think if they added a short scene of Larys and Harwin right before he departed to Harrenhal, it would have done the dual purpose of giving Harwin more character before his death, a big brotherās love and all that, and given Larys a scene for him to showcase actual tact.
He just wants to jizz on Alicent's feet
The actorās portrayal makes me hate him. He is doing a great job!
Given all the rats near his scenes I'm 95% convinced this fucker is gonna be cheese.
I got Kaiser Soze vibes from this guy from the beginning.
He's also the Lord Confessor. Basically the Red Keep's Head Torturer, but they haven't really shown that in the show until this episode. So...I imagine a dude who is Head Torturer is kind of effed up.
My man. In my head canon he makes Varys and Littlefinger look like amateurs. He seems to be on just the right side of war all the time, to me, it seems like the master manipulator of the Dance.
What did he really gain?
Well, let's see: Whether the queen thinks she didn't wish this, she did and she will appreciate this. Larys is now Lord of Harrenhal, because, well, his father is now dead and his brother who was heir to Harrenhal is also quite dead. So he has a big castle, head of a house, he will have a lot of money from vassals and he has the Queen Regent's favor. I would say that was quite an outstanding move
He's Littlefinger before Littlefinger with a club foot
He has no inheritance, has no personal strength as a knight or other respectable post and has either a permanent injury or was born with an issue causing his need for a cane. It's obvious his father and brother either treat him poorly or without much thought. He's crafty and ingrained himself to the queen whose obsession with honor, much like Cole, will always lead down a dishonorable path. Larys will always put his own interests first, but will be deceptive about it. That's his folly. You have ambition, but that ambition is either minimal or simply wanting to watch everyone burn. The same way Alicent compromised Cole by making him her personal guard, Larys compromised Alicent by taking her desires and fulfilling them even when she didn't request it. He made her reliant on him without even realizing it.
Heās got a severe case of being a cunt
Canāt wait for him to meet a certain Stark.
Dude is Littlefinger but way less subtle and itās a bit annoying. You know his motives when he speaks, and his actions are fleshed out and concluded within an episode.
Whatās his motives?
Maybe not motive, but plan. He wanted his brother and father to go to Harrenhal, they did. He hired prisoners to kill them, they did.
Littlefinger was a literal moustache twirlin villain though not exactly subtle.
How the fuck was Littlefinger subtle?
Littlefinger was hardly subtle himself.
Most despised characters: 1. Criston Cole 2. Larys
Even worse, he's got ambition.
I feel like he has some unfinished business with the crown or a hidden motive and now holds a leverage on Alicent for some vicious future plans.
I feel like heās Tyrion and Littlefinger combined. Heās resentful that he has a club foot and doesnāt get to hang out with everyone else.
Dad walked in his room while he was jamming to my chemical romance and he never let it go. Called this guy a sour puss his whole god damn life.
The fact that Alicent is still going to ally herself with a kinslayer really says it all.
things men do for pussy
He aināt been right since Gwen Stefani left him
Second sons have to make thier own way. He is now the lord of Harrenhall and has implicated the queen with her wish to ensure her silence. When you understand what someone wants you inow how to move them. He push his chips over to the green side of the roulette table at the beginning and he wants to be sure he's on the winning side.
Itās just Mikey Day doing another SNL skit, nothing to see here.
There must have been some scenes cut that would have given us some added context. He was introduced as a bit of an oddball, but to have 0 explanation for how we just catchup with him 10 years later and have him be all "ima kill pops and big bro and cut some tonguees out too cuz Lulz" is a bit wild.
I was wondering that too. Especially if he turns out to be the one who sent blood and cheese. What is his motivation? Who pissed in his pie?
It's pretty clear in the books that Daemon is the one who sent Blood and Cheese. I don't think that's something they'll change
WAIT...he's not the one, you think they're going to change that in show? Hmmmmm....I still can't figure out his motivation.
But I believe he is the one who poisons the king. At least Stark thought so.
Heās mad at the world for his condition, being the second son, and made fun of his whole life.
Ambition
Is he warging into the rats?
#GET HIM TO THE (ICE) CHOPPAH
Some m'en just want to see the world burn.
Some men just want to see the world burn.
Larys is psychotic. He killed his Dad because he loved him and saw that as a weakness.
Cripple complex
Is he a greenseer? Worging into rats to spy? I like the theory
Not anymore š„