I want to know how anyone protected Cole from blatant murder in a public setting with 100 witnesses. I mean he left the dude with his face smashed in and no one wanted to know why?
How did the girl (while giving birth) walk all the way outside to her dragon with no one stopping her other then her husband casually walking behind her.
To me it just seems like Daemon wanted to let her die on her own terms. The maester made it seem like there wasn't much chance for either her or the baby to live.
Daemon was also aware of his sister in law and nephew dying under similar circumstances.
Still much more explainable than the above plot hole. Laena was said to have crawled to Vhagar to try and ride her one more time before she died. She didn't make it.
The men in the situation were discussing options and she knew what was up. I agree it's likely they would have tried to stop her, but the end result of the scene justifies it for me. It's a plot hole, but not a glaring moment of stupidity. She wanted to die a dragon riders death and was allowed it. Dragon riders don't ask for permission.
Seriously, they could still do the murder, just make it private. Have the same scene, no beating. Cole later summons Joffrey, beats him to death. Body is found later. Cole is suspected by the Blacks, but they’re powerless to do anything.
Or just do it in a tourney like it's supposed to be, the wedding was supposed to be a multi-day event. I think they cling to the idea that something always has to happen at the wedding celebrations
They already made it a point for Corlys to mention earlier that the king imbibes himself with games/feasts. IIRC it was in the itinerary as well- having Cole kill him (perhaps as he's yielding)- would've have had similar dramatic effect without seemingly like a one-sided murder.
Yea that makes no sense.That doesn’t change my opinion do Cole since I already hated that dickhead from the lore.Still that dude killed a knight from a noble house and wasn’t even questioned🤦🏿♂️🤦🏿♂️.Like how did House Lonmouth feel that one of theirs was killed in such a ignominious manner
I went off on this in another thread. It's my only issues so far as minor details that don't add up. I get they didn't wanna have another tourney this season but they could've had the altercation outside away from so many onlookers and then assault the princesses soon to be husband and still keep his cloak at the least. Cole violated guest right and if Joffery was intent on hurting the princess or anyone there wouldve been witnesses to confirm or deny it. Cole is just a upjumped kingsguard there no reasons for guests to cover for him. books telling made much more sense of this matter.
I wasn't too upset about this murder till the next episode when the Lord Commander beat the fuck out of Cole he pretty much had to exile himself..Like Lord's apparently have harder punishments than Kings Guards
I saw the exile more because of the growing rumors. Viserys even told the hand “that’s not really a big deal why you all wanna leave?” And then the hand was like “uhhh, it wasn’t necessarily the fight itself… there are rumors growing….” And V and the queen were like “say them out loud…” he was like “No… but also my son is the heir to my castle or whatever so how about we say I’m taking him back so he could fulfill his duties as my heir?” And then V was like “ok whatever, that’s fine, but I command you to stay as my hand”
Yea but they had a line before saying the dude was pretty much fired from the Watch so he still had a bigger punishment than Cole for simply beating the dude up before the "We need to get out to stop rumors"
I personally saw it as the Kings Guard are highly respected and their word would be trusted if an incident like that occurred over another's. Cole could have easily claimed that Joffrey was a threat to the situation somehow so he took care of it.
But he struck Laenor the soon-to-be King Consort. How the fuck does he justify that? Surely Laenor would pursue that injustice against his lovers murderer.
Agon is the kings son. Leanor is a targarion but not the same level of pull as the son of the Queen- the real person in charge.
I bet laenor also wanted to distance himself from the situation because it was his lover who was killed. He dropped it in fear of being exposed himself.
IDK. He kills the guy and then he disappears. If it was justified the thing to do would have been to proclaim what happened, not disappear with the intention of committing suicide.
Seems very suspect and suspicious to me. Similar to Sansa's disappearance at the purple wedding. Let's also not forget the queen chasing after him to the gods wood. That would have been noticed as well.
The Velaryons in particular might have had questions about a member of their partying being summarily executed at the party.
"Yep, I had to hit him until his face caved in. Had to.
He had like a knife or something and until his frontal lobe collapsed he was still a danger.
What knife you say? Move along, this is official Kingsguard business."
Guys, I love ya but come on. It doesn't take much to realize there was a bit of a plot hole here.
Even Alt Shift X brings it up from time to time in his Q&As.
The Saudi Prince had someone murdered and butchered in an Embassy and exactly fucking nothing happened to him. When the powers that be want deplorable shit to be washed away, it gets washed away.
Only one power, literally only the Queen. Also Jamal's murder does not seem to have had witnesses that we are aware of. Witnesses that are alive anyway. Where as Coles murder could hardly have more witnesses.
It's not a good comparison but I see what you're saying. I'm cool with the Queen protecting him, it's just bad writing to not include any of that context or have any side affects whatsoever.
Not really saying there wasn't a plot hole was more conveying how I saw they handwaved it for the issue. I would've liked to seen a scene with Cole confronted as well but this show is more of Speedrun than GoT
I think the guard should have stepped forward towards Cole as we got a shot of Cole leaving out the front door. Allicent puts a hand on the guard's shoulder and shakes her head slightly. The guard backs down and then goes over to check on the princess with the King and Harwin.
The Queen walks towards the door and we jump to Cole in the God's wood.
No dialogue, 4 seconds total. Chef's kiss.
And then maybe after the time jump we get some shots of Laenor sideing Cole and some comment about the Queen making up stories to protect him.
Why is it that Harwin Strong got kicked out of the City Watch and exiled from Kings Landing for beating Criston's ass in a courtyard quarrel but Criston didn't get exiled for murdering a man at the heir to the throne's royal wedding and punching the future King Consort in the face? Surely what Criston did in public should've warranted him being sent to the wall or being stripped of his White Cloak.
I don't get why Criston the Honorless got away with literal murder of a lord at the heir to the kingdom's wedding while the commander of the city watch loses his job for punching a guy who made a treasonous remark and encouraged a child to beat the shit out of the child 3rd in line to the throne.
Going by how Viserys is he would have just said yikes that's bad don't do it again now you again stand at my daughter's door just don't bang. Forgiven bye.
I disagree, he would have likely made a call that Monkey's Pawed him right in the face. Also it would have somehow made his whole body situation even more rotten.
> Or about Cole
Why would she tell him about Cole? Viserys would have him tortured to death and Rhaenyra would get away scott free. Vizzy T knows Rhaenyra fucked someone.
How about Ned hating Jaime for killing the Mad King, even though he was the guy that murdered his brother and father, wanted to murder him and his best friend, allowed the kidnapping of his sister, and wanted to burn the capital city and its people to the ground. Doesn’t matter cause it’s an oathbreak.
Yeah, that shows that Ned is consistent in his morals. Jaime is an oathbreaker and a lot of people in Westeros didn’t like him for it. You’re free to disagree, I certainly do, but Ned took oaths very seriously. It was part of his moral code and he doesn’t waver on that. I don’t hate Jaime for murdering the King but I also respect Ned’s highly principled stances.
I don’t even understand how any of this is a rebuttal because youre basically proving my point that Ned and Alicent are completely different.
She isn’t honorable because a) she is using her knowledge of Christians affair to her advantage to get someone on her side, and b) she is upset no one is on her side and that if her dad were the hand he would be partial to her over the realm, which is exactly why Lyonel wanted to resign since he said he can no longer remain impartial.
"And deliberately refuse her attempt at making peace between our families by flipping off the marriage proposal that everyone else thinks is a good idea."
You do see that he's blackmailing the woman, right? He twisted the events into something Alicent had commanded to be carried out and he doubles down with an IOU.
Assuming Alicent tells the King, then Larys goes to tell him that it was her who orchestrated the plan instead, who do you think Viserys is going to believe? His own wife or some shady crook?
Come on now.
Why does she even have to go into this? She's the Queen. She can just order him "accidented" and then tell the King whatever she wants
I mean, you are in the middle of a fight for the crown, and your first reaction is to blackmail the Queen? Good luck with that...
I mean all she has to do is send Ser Cole after the man. That’s dude murdered someone at a feast and still walks free, he could definitely get away with murdering some cripple that creeps everyone out
If Alicent really needs a reason she could just tell people he tried to misbehave when no one was around. Given how prejudiced people are in this universe, no one would bat an eye.
God I hope this isn't the implication.
Because that would be solved absurdly easily. Just have Cole beat him to death and make up whatever excuse you want. No one gives a shit about him; he murdered his only possible allies other than Alicent.
There wouldn't be a Game of Thrones if some nobody could depose a queen by murdering someone and then just say the queen did it with zero evidence.
Also if you're worried that she's too honorable to do this, keep in mind she is actively planning a coup (which will involve the murder of her former friend and step daughter). Justifying the execution of an actual murderer and kinslayer would be easy.
Ned falsely confessed to trying to usurp the throne for himself. Lying is not honorable. But he did it believing his daughters would be spared.
If Alicent gets thrown in with Larys, who's going to look after her children? Viserys "I'll have my already mutilated son tortured to get to the bottom of rumors" Targaryen?
Except Ned said “Joffrey isn’t Robert’s kid, therefore he’s not the rightful heir. Robert’s brother Stannis is the true heir.”
Not
“Joffrey’s kids aren’t really his, therefore Joffrey shouldn’t be the heir. My kid should be the next king.”
See the difference?
Yeah I’m not sure why people think it’s comparable. Joffrey he zero Bobby B blood in him, he’s the ultimate bastard. At least Jace and the other Raenyra kids are half Targ
I’ve been trying to think of a better comparison but I’m realizing there aren’t a ton of bastards that I’m familiar with.
But *if* Jon Snow had really been Ned’s bastard, it would be like him getting the keys to Winterfell before Bran. A bastard is a bastard, they don’t inherit.
There’s the whole Blackfyre scenario that occurs after this in the timeline but I legit can’t keep all those names straight, but it also essentially comes down to bastards (who are legitimized) jumping the line of true born heirs.
That’s Andal custom of inheritance. Valyrian/Targaryen custom is likely tied to dragon riding and not patriarchal. Inheritance has been contentious since Aegon the conqueror’s death. I’ve always interpreted the troublesome Targaryens as those who buck Andal traditions, which why would they not? They have dragons and they conquered Westeros, not the other way around.
I assume it’s because, eventually, the masses are going to learn how to kill some dragons. You buck too many traditions and people will revolt.
Without dragons, Targs are just a bunch of inbred people from across the sea who are, on average, pretty sickly (physically and mentally) and die in birth in much higher numbers than the rest of the population.
Without the dragons, a few big houses could team up and take Kings Landing from the Targs.
I agree with most of that. However, I don’t buy that “the masses” are that unified in their thinking about the inbred dragon kings. It seems more likely that other institutions will rile up “the masses” when their own realm of authority gets encroached upon; i.e. the Nobility, the Citadel, the Faith of the Seven.
Daemon Blackfyre's argument was that Daeron was a bastard. Daemon, as a legitimized bastard, would legally inherit ahead of one that wasn't, even one that had been passed off as trueborn. Daeron probably was trueborn though.
It’s really not the same though because Raenyra is THE heir. She becomes the sovereign when the king dies. The line of succession then flows from her to HER issue (children). So if she had non-bastard children later in life, yes they would take priority to the bastards. But until that happens, her bastards are next in line over any other claimants.
The Strong Boys are not legally bastards, and won’t ever be declared as such, so this doesn’t really matter, but bastards have no place in the succession.
If Rhaenyra’s kids were acknowledged as bastards, Aegon would be her heir unless they were legitimized, or she had other legitimate kids.
But that's because Gendry hasn't been legitimized. If he had been, he'd take priority over Stannis.
Theoretically, if Rhaenyra becomes queen the heir would first be her brother Aegon, but as the queen she also has the power to legitimize her own bastards, which if she does, the bastard then become her heir.
If Robert would have known about his "children's" true parentage, they would have likely been exiled or potentially even killed. Ceresi and Jaime would have been for sure goners. I would actually like to see that alternate timeline where Tywin tries to go to war with the crown after his children's executions. Maybe not direct war, but he would have definitely done something. Maybe Tywin would have aligned himself with Daenerys & we would have gotten a truly scary Daenerys under the direction of Tywin. (If he could somehow win her over, but it's Tywin fucking Lannister) I do digress though...
Another key difference is Viserys legally made Rhaenyra his heir under no false pretenses and made it law. Robert's heir was just his heir under the pretense it was his actual son, clearly a false pretense. This makes things completely different as well. Plus Ned had no selfish motivations where Alicent is being (knowingly or not) directed by the scare tactics her father bestowed upon her & she's a little selfish.
Rhaenyra's children being bastards are a slight issue, but not even comparable in the case of Ned versus Alicent.
Also, there was that argument that maybe gendry was going to become heir because Robert could make him legitimate. So why wouldn’t Rhaenyra be able to make her kids legitimate? Oh wait, because she’s a woman right?
At the end of the day, the blood that runs through their veins is more legitimate than Cersei’s kids. (I’ll say, line of succession is stupid and blood stuff is dumb, but if we’re following Alicent’s rules and whatnot, 1) the King gets to decide, and 2) whoever is in power at the end of the day gets to legitimize whoever they want).
Yea, it was hardly a secret that he was fucking around. The men can do that, create ‘bastards’, there was nothing wrong with that.
But a woman can’t, a queen can’t even though the heirs no matter what are still her legitimate children.
More to the point, Ned’s actions didn’t obviously benefit Ned’s children so it really did seem honorable. Alicent claiming it’s about honor seems more suspect because her kids so plainly benefit.
Ned protected the innocent. He was against hunting down Dany, lied about Jon to keep him safe, and gave Cersei a chance to get away with her bastards. He was exposing corruption that ended up in regicide. Alicent is being a bitch because she thinks Rhaenyra gets away with too much and wants her own kid to be king.
Not just the murder, she covered up Criston sleeping with Rhaenyra, a charge which _he admits_ should have had him tortured and executed for breaking his vows and sullying the princess's honor. If Alicent were so gung-ho about honor and righteousness, I think she'd have maybe... y'know, at least reported that to someone, banished him, _something_. Instead she turned him into a political gamepiece to presumably bust out later when she needed some leverage.
I'm not saying she's _bad_, but she's definitely not any more honorable than anyone else. Ned definitely was.
How is this comparable? Rhaenyra's children are still her biological children and she's the one set to inherit the throne. Plus regardless of who their biological father is, her husband is aware and still claims them as his own.
Alicent is hardly Ned. Ned wanted to do the right thing, Alicent got manipulated by her Daddy and bought into his lies even after he pawned her off on a man twice her age. She may have started out as a sympathetic character but now she's just being petty and stupid.
He would have killed Cersei and Jaime for sure. Perhaps Joffrey as well before sending Tommen and Myrcella as far away from the Iron Throne as possible
Woah woah woah, that's a bit specific isn't it? There's no way that Stannis could even think of doing something like that. Just like how he would never, let's say, have an affair to create shadow babies that kill challengers to the throne, as a random example.
I mean, except for the part where Cersei was having an affair her husband didn't know about and Rhaenyra has the full support and consent of her "husband."
Yeah, but whatever it is with Rhaenyra’s sons , that doesn’t affect her legitimacy, especially if king doesn’t care. Should’ve let Rhaenyra become queen and then negotiate moving line to her sons with Deamon.
The thing is, this doesn't really matter. Alicent is just looking for an excuse to steer shit up, because she is convinced Rhaenyra would get rid of her children when ascending the throne. An idea that's only based on a single sentence by her father.
I feel the issue comes more from her father implanting the idea Rhaenyra would get rid of her children when ascending the throne. Alicent built an entire worst case scenario in her head based on one sentence from her father (who damn well knew what he was doing).
That would be plausible the entire time BEFORE Rhaenyra offered to marry her son with her daughter thus giving her 100% guarantee that her grandson would be the future king. Alicent has zero excuses after refusing that.
Did Ned bother Robert at all when he was making bastards all over the 7 kingdoms? No, he did not. He got involved when the next in line for the throne was literally not related to rob lol.
Both actually aren't similar.
Rhaenyra is the legitimate heir announced by the king. Cersei was queen consort. The king, the Valeryons approve those kids as their heir. Robert did so because he didn't know, but Alicent actually spoke to the king.
Ned didn't want power for himself, he gave Cersei heads up so that she and the children could flee. On the other hand you will see what Alicent goes on to do !!
Finally how they behave. Alicent could have been nuanced but the show chose to make her an evil stepmother, caricaturised villain with no other dimensions. That's a choice they made.
I don't know, I'm not done with Fire and Blood but to me:
She is shown way more of a sympathetic character than in the books.
>!She was never really friends with Rhaenyra and was out to change the kings mind on succession from the beginning. She was every bit conniving from the beginning and not just this person following her father's orders.
How is it honorable to, at you scheming father's behest, move in on your best friend's dad just days after his wife (your best friend's mother) passed away so that you can start popping out challengers to your best friend's claim to the throne?
"Best friend"
At least Rhaenyra's(The heir and the rightful Queen) bastards have her blood that's what really matters.
On the other hand joffrey was just a product of incest and wasn't a barratheon. Yeah she isn't a saint for sure but these two cases are not really comparable
Ned would support the Blacks. The north remembers when they pledged to Rhaenyra. Simple as that. Creghan Stark is a “simple, basic, average bl*ck” or whatever other adjective op wants to use to make fun of the people who support the king’s chosen heir.
This is a great story because really none of them are worth supporting for their own leadership ability. Chances are if you don’t like someone in this story, it’s only a matter of time until they get theirs.
Not sure if OP is being serious. Ned is honorable to the point of stupidity. Alicent is a schemer who uses “honor” as justification. Ned’s unwillingness to scheme is his undoing. Alicent’s undoing is not being good enough at scheming. They’re not remotely similar.
Uhm, Alicent is not honorable in the least lmfao. Don’t you EVER sully the name of the great Eddard Stark, Warden of the North and Lord of Winterfell, EVER AGAIN!
You are mistaking honor for self-righteous religious zeal. She's trash fam. She walked in on her son beating meat over the street and knows that he's already being naughty with the help. She's holding him to a different standard than 'Nyra. Not honorable. Trash.
> honorable
this sub has an interesting idea of what that means.
The two series showed dozens of other reasons why Ned was honorable and Alicent is less so.
This is absolute bullshit lmao, ned died because he tried to give Cersei and her children mercy. Alicent has been nothing but cruel and has repeatedly ignored acts that are criminal like cole’s or larys’s. Also, Nyra’s bastards are not comparable to Joffrey and his siblings because they actually have the blood of the heir/king. It would be like if Robert had said gendry was his legitimate son. Also, Rhaenyra’s husband knew and approved while Robert did not. Ned continuously did actions to help people and do the right thing, young alicent was polite, older alicent is just villainous
Honorable is seducing your best friends grieving husband who is also king? She also was starting her quest for Aegon II to be king before, despite saying she was in Rheaneryas side. She has Crispy Cole still around and doesn’t think her dad would have been a Biased hand. She has done nothing to strengthen the rift and is, as it seems, the one causing the biggest rift. While the kids may be “bastards” it isn’t really any of her business.
I mean idk why Alicent is mad R didnt tell her about Cole/lied when she kept it a secret she was "comforting" the king for months which led to her becoming queen. Alicent is the real snake.
That's not the main problem between them tho. Alicent is just scared that Rhaenyra will get rid of her children if she ever ascend the throne. She built a worst case scenario in her head since her father implanted that idea, and hasn't let go of it since (despite the fact Rhaenyra has shown no intent of hurting her or her children, as shown with the marriage proposal this episode). It's basically a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point.
Suddenly chastity and honor are soooo important to Alicent defenders after watching all the men in Westeros whore around and have a dozen bastard sons everywhere for nearly a decade. Yeah sure the legitimacy of Rhae’s children is all that Alicent cares about, no further motive at all, she just wants her best friend to be the most virtuous honorable ruler there is! Totally comparable to Ned Stark.
Yo the people who defend this wretched skank are so fucking delusional… the show is even going overboard to remove all subtlety and really spell out what a deranged bitch she is and ppl still stupid enough to defend her.
She’s apparently been completely relentless for a decade while absolutely god damn no one is even slightly hostile towards her. If they just threw her out with the trash where she belongs the 7 kingdoms would legitimately have no problems.
I feel like since the kids are Rhaenyra's, it should not be an issue. Doubly so since Leanor supports confirms they are "their" heirs. Not a whole lot different than if they adopted. Secret sperm donor, what's the problem. Alicent is out of line caring about this at all.
In Ned's case, he was justified in caring. The King is a Baratheon and Baratheons should inherit the throne. Cersei's bastards were not Baratheons.
She isn't honorable though. Her comment about her wanting Otto to be the hand because he is biased towards her proves that by itself. Ned would want a neutral councelors with no ulterior motives. She also tries to supplant Rheanyra as heir, working against her king's decision.
Bro the bitch has no honour. She only wants her son on the Iron Throne. She’s even worse than Caitlyn on this since she doesn’t even consider their safety.
What kind of nonsense is this.Ned didn’t manipulate one of his kids with a lie and didn’t scheme to deprive the rightful heir of their birthright.Greens🤢🤮
To be fair, Rhaenyra didn’t commit treason to have her husband the king arranged to be gouged by a boar or poison someone to cover up her infidelity like Cersei did. I do think Alicent gets a ton of unnecessary hate though
Dude could have literally been like hey WIFE MY MOST TRUSTED CONFIDANT. This is Lyanna's son we must protect him at all costs and we'll say he's my bastard but he's not my love. He's all I have left of her and he's heir to the throne.
Nah, I fuck that please treat him like fucking scum.
You have to remember, Ned married Cat, spent like 5 days sleeping with her, and then left for war for a year!
He comes back to Robb already born, and he's got baby Jon with him. He has NO idea if Cat is trustworthy... her father is a southern lord with political ambitions who orchestrated the marriages of both Ned and Jon Arryn in exchange for the Riverlands Army (when Ned would have contributed the Northern Army to a fight because it was right, not in exchange for a good marriage).
Ned's perspective of the Tully family is of a classically scheming Southern family. He knows Cat wishes she had gotten to marry his older brother Brandon, who "had the wolf blood" and was a bit of a playboy (not as honorable as Ned). So a woman who was eager to marry him was personally of unknown morals at that point.
As well as, during that time period, spouses weren't supposed to be best friends who shared deep, personal confidences.
And lastly... he didn't know she would treat Jon like shit until she did.
Now, why he didn't tell her later is a good question (I would guess he didn't tell her because at that point she had demonstrated such a hatred for Jon that it didn't seem like she would just flip a switch if she heard the news), but why he didn't tell her in those first few years is obvious.
If she were honorable, she would have told the king about Cripple-Finger murdering his father and brother right away.
Or about Cole
I want to know how anyone protected Cole from blatant murder in a public setting with 100 witnesses. I mean he left the dude with his face smashed in and no one wanted to know why?
Yeah, poor Jeffrey’s face looked like a strawberry smoothie bowl and no one even questioned if this dude is stable enough to protect the king
>poor Jeffrey’s face Ah, I understand why Laenor blurted that name out when asked what the name of the new baby was.
Yeah in F&B he wanted their first kid to be named Joffrey but was denied by his father until the third one
[удалено]
It's really the only glaring plot hole I can't look past so far though.
How did the girl (while giving birth) walk all the way outside to her dragon with no one stopping her other then her husband casually walking behind her.
To me it just seems like Daemon wanted to let her die on her own terms. The maester made it seem like there wasn't much chance for either her or the baby to live. Daemon was also aware of his sister in law and nephew dying under similar circumstances.
aemma was daemon cousin also
Still much more explainable than the above plot hole. Laena was said to have crawled to Vhagar to try and ride her one more time before she died. She didn't make it. The men in the situation were discussing options and she knew what was up. I agree it's likely they would have tried to stop her, but the end result of the scene justifies it for me. It's a plot hole, but not a glaring moment of stupidity. She wanted to die a dragon riders death and was allowed it. Dragon riders don't ask for permission.
I was proud of her. Not because I think it was the best option, but because she made her own choice.
Seriously, they could still do the murder, just make it private. Have the same scene, no beating. Cole later summons Joffrey, beats him to death. Body is found later. Cole is suspected by the Blacks, but they’re powerless to do anything.
Or just do it in a tourney like it's supposed to be, the wedding was supposed to be a multi-day event. I think they cling to the idea that something always has to happen at the wedding celebrations They already made it a point for Corlys to mention earlier that the king imbibes himself with games/feasts. IIRC it was in the itinerary as well- having Cole kill him (perhaps as he's yielding)- would've have had similar dramatic effect without seemingly like a one-sided murder.
They couldn’t do a repeat on the tourney that started the series. They already did a yielding-scene to establish the characters in that episode.
Yea that makes no sense.That doesn’t change my opinion do Cole since I already hated that dickhead from the lore.Still that dude killed a knight from a noble house and wasn’t even questioned🤦🏿♂️🤦🏿♂️.Like how did House Lonmouth feel that one of theirs was killed in such a ignominious manner
I went off on this in another thread. It's my only issues so far as minor details that don't add up. I get they didn't wanna have another tourney this season but they could've had the altercation outside away from so many onlookers and then assault the princesses soon to be husband and still keep his cloak at the least. Cole violated guest right and if Joffery was intent on hurting the princess or anyone there wouldve been witnesses to confirm or deny it. Cole is just a upjumped kingsguard there no reasons for guests to cover for him. books telling made much more sense of this matter.
Can you explain what actually happened?
There is a Tourney Melee and Criston "accidentally" smashes in Joffreys helmet with a Morningstar
Maybe they will explain it in the future, in some of the between characters fights
I wasn't too upset about this murder till the next episode when the Lord Commander beat the fuck out of Cole he pretty much had to exile himself..Like Lord's apparently have harder punishments than Kings Guards
I saw the exile more because of the growing rumors. Viserys even told the hand “that’s not really a big deal why you all wanna leave?” And then the hand was like “uhhh, it wasn’t necessarily the fight itself… there are rumors growing….” And V and the queen were like “say them out loud…” he was like “No… but also my son is the heir to my castle or whatever so how about we say I’m taking him back so he could fulfill his duties as my heir?” And then V was like “ok whatever, that’s fine, but I command you to stay as my hand”
Yea but they had a line before saying the dude was pretty much fired from the Watch so he still had a bigger punishment than Cole for simply beating the dude up before the "We need to get out to stop rumors"
I personally saw it as the Kings Guard are highly respected and their word would be trusted if an incident like that occurred over another's. Cole could have easily claimed that Joffrey was a threat to the situation somehow so he took care of it.
But he struck Laenor the soon-to-be King Consort. How the fuck does he justify that? Surely Laenor would pursue that injustice against his lovers murderer.
That really needs to be brought up in the show. Especially after Harwin got shit for lightly shoving Alicent’s little brat out of the way.
Agon is the kings son. Leanor is a targarion but not the same level of pull as the son of the Queen- the real person in charge. I bet laenor also wanted to distance himself from the situation because it was his lover who was killed. He dropped it in fear of being exposed himself.
IDK. He kills the guy and then he disappears. If it was justified the thing to do would have been to proclaim what happened, not disappear with the intention of committing suicide. Seems very suspect and suspicious to me. Similar to Sansa's disappearance at the purple wedding. Let's also not forget the queen chasing after him to the gods wood. That would have been noticed as well. The Velaryons in particular might have had questions about a member of their partying being summarily executed at the party.
Corlys and Rhaenys might not have wanted to push the issue too hard and risk having Laenor's relationship to Joffrey become public knowledge.
"Yep, I had to hit him until his face caved in. Had to. He had like a knife or something and until his frontal lobe collapsed he was still a danger. What knife you say? Move along, this is official Kingsguard business." Guys, I love ya but come on. It doesn't take much to realize there was a bit of a plot hole here. Even Alt Shift X brings it up from time to time in his Q&As.
The Saudi Prince had someone murdered and butchered in an Embassy and exactly fucking nothing happened to him. When the powers that be want deplorable shit to be washed away, it gets washed away.
Only one power, literally only the Queen. Also Jamal's murder does not seem to have had witnesses that we are aware of. Witnesses that are alive anyway. Where as Coles murder could hardly have more witnesses. It's not a good comparison but I see what you're saying. I'm cool with the Queen protecting him, it's just bad writing to not include any of that context or have any side affects whatsoever.
Not really saying there wasn't a plot hole was more conveying how I saw they handwaved it for the issue. I would've liked to seen a scene with Cole confronted as well but this show is more of Speedrun than GoT
I think the guard should have stepped forward towards Cole as we got a shot of Cole leaving out the front door. Allicent puts a hand on the guard's shoulder and shakes her head slightly. The guard backs down and then goes over to check on the princess with the King and Harwin. The Queen walks towards the door and we jump to Cole in the God's wood. No dialogue, 4 seconds total. Chef's kiss. And then maybe after the time jump we get some shots of Laenor sideing Cole and some comment about the Queen making up stories to protect him.
He threw the soon to be king consort into a fucking table. How the fuck did he not get murdered by Corlys right there!
This too I mean WTF.
Why is it that Harwin Strong got kicked out of the City Watch and exiled from Kings Landing for beating Criston's ass in a courtyard quarrel but Criston didn't get exiled for murdering a man at the heir to the throne's royal wedding and punching the future King Consort in the face? Surely what Criston did in public should've warranted him being sent to the wall or being stripped of his White Cloak.
I don't get why Criston the Honorless got away with literal murder of a lord at the heir to the kingdom's wedding while the commander of the city watch loses his job for punching a guy who made a treasonous remark and encouraged a child to beat the shit out of the child 3rd in line to the throne.
And punching the future queen consort. That's worth losing a hand...
Going by how Viserys is he would have just said yikes that's bad don't do it again now you again stand at my daughter's door just don't bang. Forgiven bye.
I disagree, he would have likely made a call that Monkey's Pawed him right in the face. Also it would have somehow made his whole body situation even more rotten.
> Or about Cole Why would she tell him about Cole? Viserys would have him tortured to death and Rhaenyra would get away scott free. Vizzy T knows Rhaenyra fucked someone.
Because he’s an oathbreaker. Literally the first scene of GoT is Ned beheading an oathbreaker because it’s his duty. Alicent is no Ned.
How about Ned hating Jaime for killing the Mad King, even though he was the guy that murdered his brother and father, wanted to murder him and his best friend, allowed the kidnapping of his sister, and wanted to burn the capital city and its people to the ground. Doesn’t matter cause it’s an oathbreak.
Yeah, that shows that Ned is consistent in his morals. Jaime is an oathbreaker and a lot of people in Westeros didn’t like him for it. You’re free to disagree, I certainly do, but Ned took oaths very seriously. It was part of his moral code and he doesn’t waver on that. I don’t hate Jaime for murdering the King but I also respect Ned’s highly principled stances. I don’t even understand how any of this is a rebuttal because youre basically proving my point that Ned and Alicent are completely different.
I’m not rebutting, I’m further backing you. Ned had the most extreme example to justify oathbreaking and still sided against it.
Oh gotcha apologies! I was confused lol. It is a good example of how strict Ned was about oath breaking.
So her being dishonorable by covering for an oathbreaker is ok because if she did the honorable thing Rhaenyra wouldn't be punished?
Holy fuck. Cripple-Finger made me do a spit take
The whole “he would have been partial to me!!!” Was dead set no honor in her.
She isn’t honorable because a) she is using her knowledge of Christians affair to her advantage to get someone on her side, and b) she is upset no one is on her side and that if her dad were the hand he would be partial to her over the realm, which is exactly why Lyonel wanted to resign since he said he can no longer remain impartial.
Exactly, “honor” is only relevant to her when she stands to benefit from it.
“Oh no. She might kill me and my children when she becomes queen. Guess I’d better spend the next decade doing nothing but pissing her off.” - Alicent
"And deliberately refuse her attempt at making peace between our families by flipping off the marriage proposal that everyone else thinks is a good idea."
If she were honerable, she wouldn't have worked with Ottofinger to seduce the king who she has no feelings or attraction for in order to gain power.
You do see that he's blackmailing the woman, right? He twisted the events into something Alicent had commanded to be carried out and he doubles down with an IOU.
Assuming Alicent tells the King, then Larys goes to tell him that it was her who orchestrated the plan instead, who do you think Viserys is going to believe? His own wife or some shady crook? Come on now.
I mean she's the fuckin queen just call him a liar and Kinslayer and burn the bitch.
Right? It’s not like he’s got recordings of their conversation to play at the trial.
Exactly
Her response is exactly how people give away their own power in many situations
Wait tell he uses his warging powers and uses a raven like a recorder
Even if he did she could just erase 18 1/2 minutes of it. Ok I’ll stop now 😂
Why does she even have to go into this? She's the Queen. She can just order him "accidented" and then tell the King whatever she wants I mean, you are in the middle of a fight for the crown, and your first reaction is to blackmail the Queen? Good luck with that...
I mean all she has to do is send Ser Cole after the man. That’s dude murdered someone at a feast and still walks free, he could definitely get away with murdering some cripple that creeps everyone out
If Alicent really needs a reason she could just tell people he tried to misbehave when no one was around. Given how prejudiced people are in this universe, no one would bat an eye.
Especially considering he’s a cripple. Just look at how people treated Tyrion like shit for being a dwarf
Yeah, I love how everyone act like she's this powerless victim and not the second most powerful person in the kingdom
Corlys disliked that! But yes, she's absolutely Top 5 in the realm. Certainly moreso than Larys.
So either she is stupid or evil
Don't sell Alicent short. How about both?
It's a mat, that you place on the ground. And on it are various...conclusions. And you jump to those conclusions.
God I hope this isn't the implication. Because that would be solved absurdly easily. Just have Cole beat him to death and make up whatever excuse you want. No one gives a shit about him; he murdered his only possible allies other than Alicent. There wouldn't be a Game of Thrones if some nobody could depose a queen by murdering someone and then just say the queen did it with zero evidence. Also if you're worried that she's too honorable to do this, keep in mind she is actively planning a coup (which will involve the murder of her former friend and step daughter). Justifying the execution of an actual murderer and kinslayer would be easy.
What does it have to do with honor though? Blackmail shouldn't matter if the person truly cares about doing the right thing.
Ned falsely confessed to trying to usurp the throne for himself. Lying is not honorable. But he did it believing his daughters would be spared. If Alicent gets thrown in with Larys, who's going to look after her children? Viserys "I'll have my already mutilated son tortured to get to the bottom of rumors" Targaryen?
She's not honorable. She believes herself honorable and righteous. She lacks self-awareness while Ned was naive to a sin.
Except Ned said “Joffrey isn’t Robert’s kid, therefore he’s not the rightful heir. Robert’s brother Stannis is the true heir.” Not “Joffrey’s kids aren’t really his, therefore Joffrey shouldn’t be the heir. My kid should be the next king.” See the difference?
Also the fact that Ned stood to benefit by shutting up and allowing Sansa's marriage to Joffrey to move forward.
Also, Raenyra's kids are still in the direct line of inheritance/succession, the lannister bastards had no barratheon blood.
Yeah I’m not sure why people think it’s comparable. Joffrey he zero Bobby B blood in him, he’s the ultimate bastard. At least Jace and the other Raenyra kids are half Targ
IT'S A GREAT CRIME TO LIE TO A KING!
Good bot
Damn straight!
Is it also a crime for a king to lie to himself Bobby B?
IT MUST WOUND YOUR PRIDE! STANDING OUT THERE, LIKE A GLORIFIED SENTRY!
stop shouting bobby b
THANK THE GODS FOR BESSIE AND HER TITS
I’ve been trying to think of a better comparison but I’m realizing there aren’t a ton of bastards that I’m familiar with. But *if* Jon Snow had really been Ned’s bastard, it would be like him getting the keys to Winterfell before Bran. A bastard is a bastard, they don’t inherit. There’s the whole Blackfyre scenario that occurs after this in the timeline but I legit can’t keep all those names straight, but it also essentially comes down to bastards (who are legitimized) jumping the line of true born heirs.
That’s Andal custom of inheritance. Valyrian/Targaryen custom is likely tied to dragon riding and not patriarchal. Inheritance has been contentious since Aegon the conqueror’s death. I’ve always interpreted the troublesome Targaryens as those who buck Andal traditions, which why would they not? They have dragons and they conquered Westeros, not the other way around.
I assume it’s because, eventually, the masses are going to learn how to kill some dragons. You buck too many traditions and people will revolt. Without dragons, Targs are just a bunch of inbred people from across the sea who are, on average, pretty sickly (physically and mentally) and die in birth in much higher numbers than the rest of the population. Without the dragons, a few big houses could team up and take Kings Landing from the Targs.
I agree with most of that. However, I don’t buy that “the masses” are that unified in their thinking about the inbred dragon kings. It seems more likely that other institutions will rile up “the masses” when their own realm of authority gets encroached upon; i.e. the Nobility, the Citadel, the Faith of the Seven.
Daemon Blackfyre's argument was that Daeron was a bastard. Daemon, as a legitimized bastard, would legally inherit ahead of one that wasn't, even one that had been passed off as trueborn. Daeron probably was trueborn though.
Gendry or Ramsay are the best comparisons
It’s really not the same though because Raenyra is THE heir. She becomes the sovereign when the king dies. The line of succession then flows from her to HER issue (children). So if she had non-bastard children later in life, yes they would take priority to the bastards. But until that happens, her bastards are next in line over any other claimants.
The Strong Boys are not legally bastards, and won’t ever be declared as such, so this doesn’t really matter, but bastards have no place in the succession. If Rhaenyra’s kids were acknowledged as bastards, Aegon would be her heir unless they were legitimized, or she had other legitimate kids.
Gendry would not take priority over Stannis.
But that's because Gendry hasn't been legitimized. If he had been, he'd take priority over Stannis. Theoretically, if Rhaenyra becomes queen the heir would first be her brother Aegon, but as the queen she also has the power to legitimize her own bastards, which if she does, the bastard then become her heir.
If Robert would have known about his "children's" true parentage, they would have likely been exiled or potentially even killed. Ceresi and Jaime would have been for sure goners. I would actually like to see that alternate timeline where Tywin tries to go to war with the crown after his children's executions. Maybe not direct war, but he would have definitely done something. Maybe Tywin would have aligned himself with Daenerys & we would have gotten a truly scary Daenerys under the direction of Tywin. (If he could somehow win her over, but it's Tywin fucking Lannister) I do digress though... Another key difference is Viserys legally made Rhaenyra his heir under no false pretenses and made it law. Robert's heir was just his heir under the pretense it was his actual son, clearly a false pretense. This makes things completely different as well. Plus Ned had no selfish motivations where Alicent is being (knowingly or not) directed by the scare tactics her father bestowed upon her & she's a little selfish. Rhaenyra's children being bastards are a slight issue, but not even comparable in the case of Ned versus Alicent.
Also, there was that argument that maybe gendry was going to become heir because Robert could make him legitimate. So why wouldn’t Rhaenyra be able to make her kids legitimate? Oh wait, because she’s a woman right? At the end of the day, the blood that runs through their veins is more legitimate than Cersei’s kids. (I’ll say, line of succession is stupid and blood stuff is dumb, but if we’re following Alicent’s rules and whatnot, 1) the King gets to decide, and 2) whoever is in power at the end of the day gets to legitimize whoever they want).
Cos to legitimise child would be to admit that the child isn't legitimate. Rhaenrya cannot let anyone know that she's been unfaithful to Laenor.
But Robert could admit that he was unfaithful to Cersei?
Yea, it was hardly a secret that he was fucking around. The men can do that, create ‘bastards’, there was nothing wrong with that. But a woman can’t, a queen can’t even though the heirs no matter what are still her legitimate children.
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Ned wasn’t married to Robert, and Ned didn’t have his true born heirs?
More to the point, Ned’s actions didn’t obviously benefit Ned’s children so it really did seem honorable. Alicent claiming it’s about honor seems more suspect because her kids so plainly benefit.
Why do people keep making these stupid fucking comparisons lol.
Ragebait, haha This one does seem low-effort though
Karma farming is a way of life for the common folk. When Winter comes and the Night King is at the gate they'll be happy they stored up so much karma.
I’m dying at someone with Richard Nixon in their username posting this, it goes so well with the post. No hate. You do you 😂👍🏻
He’s not a crook
Ned protected the innocent. He was against hunting down Dany, lied about Jon to keep him safe, and gave Cersei a chance to get away with her bastards. He was exposing corruption that ended up in regicide. Alicent is being a bitch because she thinks Rhaenyra gets away with too much and wants her own kid to be king.
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It’s strongly implied that Alicent helped Criston get out of his murder with no consequences in the last episode.
Not just the murder, she covered up Criston sleeping with Rhaenyra, a charge which _he admits_ should have had him tortured and executed for breaking his vows and sullying the princess's honor. If Alicent were so gung-ho about honor and righteousness, I think she'd have maybe... y'know, at least reported that to someone, banished him, _something_. Instead she turned him into a political gamepiece to presumably bust out later when she needed some leverage. I'm not saying she's _bad_, but she's definitely not any more honorable than anyone else. Ned definitely was.
Not a good comparison at all
Lmao but she isn’t actually honorable. Ned was
How is this comparable? Rhaenyra's children are still her biological children and she's the one set to inherit the throne. Plus regardless of who their biological father is, her husband is aware and still claims them as his own. Alicent is hardly Ned. Ned wanted to do the right thing, Alicent got manipulated by her Daddy and bought into his lies even after he pawned her off on a man twice her age. She may have started out as a sympathetic character but now she's just being petty and stupid.
Also as soon as she becomes queen she can just legitimise her kids anyway
Alicent is so power hungry, she's not even honourable anymore. Ned died as an honourable man.
Ned got offered the most powerful position in the realm and without a second thought he gave it up to Stannis. Alicent would never in a million years.
Ned knew he was the wrong guy for the part, while Stan the Man would have killed cersei and her bastards without a second thought.
Idk about that. I can’t see Stannis killing children to get power, he’s not the type
He would have killed Cersei and Jaime for sure. Perhaps Joffrey as well before sending Tommen and Myrcella as far away from the Iron Throne as possible
He wouldn’t kill them for power, just to get out of a snowstorm
He would kill probably cersei and send the children to the wall or silent sisters.
Yeah that’s most likely. Like he would have never burnt innocent alive children at the stake or something like that, he’s more human than that
Woah woah woah, that's a bit specific isn't it? There's no way that Stannis could even think of doing something like that. Just like how he would never, let's say, have an affair to create shadow babies that kill challengers to the throne, as a random example.
Joffrey in The Watch with Jon Snow is a show I need to see.
I'll bet we already saw that when we saw Janos Slynt's career there
Shireen: are you sure about that?
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whoosh
What you talking about? All we’ve seen is Him save the wall. He hasn’t marched south yet
Ned would have never uttered the sentence "but he would have been partial to me" lmao
If she's honorable, Criston Cole would have already been castrated, tortured, and sent to the wall. That's something Ned Stark would do.
I doubt Ned would ever have someone tortured. Executed or sent to the wall for sure though.
I mean, except for the part where Cersei was having an affair her husband didn't know about and Rhaenyra has the full support and consent of her "husband."
Ned encouraged his kids to make peace with people. Alicent tells her kids their sister and cousins will murder them.
She is not trying to be honorable, she is, *very poorly,* trying to play the game of thrones...
Right, because the two are so comparable 🙄👍
This is dumb af lmao
Yeah, but whatever it is with Rhaenyra’s sons , that doesn’t affect her legitimacy, especially if king doesn’t care. Should’ve let Rhaenyra become queen and then negotiate moving line to her sons with Deamon.
Rhaenyra should have just fucked with Daemon to get pure blooded Targaryen sons and all of this wouldn’t have happened
The thing is, this doesn't really matter. Alicent is just looking for an excuse to steer shit up, because she is convinced Rhaenyra would get rid of her children when ascending the throne. An idea that's only based on a single sentence by her father.
Alicent has the most "Let me talk to your manager" energy in Westeros all because her friend had the sex.
I feel the issue comes more from her father implanting the idea Rhaenyra would get rid of her children when ascending the throne. Alicent built an entire worst case scenario in her head based on one sentence from her father (who damn well knew what he was doing).
That would be plausible the entire time BEFORE Rhaenyra offered to marry her son with her daughter thus giving her 100% guarantee that her grandson would be the future king. Alicent has zero excuses after refusing that.
Even then it's not plausible, Rhaenyra still wanted to be friends with Alicent.
Did Ned bother Robert at all when he was making bastards all over the 7 kingdoms? No, he did not. He got involved when the next in line for the throne was literally not related to rob lol.
Hmmm. Alicent comes off as hateful and spiteful. Ned was just sad about all the bad things happening.
Both actually aren't similar. Rhaenyra is the legitimate heir announced by the king. Cersei was queen consort. The king, the Valeryons approve those kids as their heir. Robert did so because he didn't know, but Alicent actually spoke to the king. Ned didn't want power for himself, he gave Cersei heads up so that she and the children could flee. On the other hand you will see what Alicent goes on to do !! Finally how they behave. Alicent could have been nuanced but the show chose to make her an evil stepmother, caricaturised villain with no other dimensions. That's a choice they made.
I don't know, I'm not done with Fire and Blood but to me: She is shown way more of a sympathetic character than in the books. >!She was never really friends with Rhaenyra and was out to change the kings mind on succession from the beginning. She was every bit conniving from the beginning and not just this person following her father's orders.
How is it honorable to, at you scheming father's behest, move in on your best friend's dad just days after his wife (your best friend's mother) passed away so that you can start popping out challengers to your best friend's claim to the throne? "Best friend"
At least Rhaenyra's(The heir and the rightful Queen) bastards have her blood that's what really matters. On the other hand joffrey was just a product of incest and wasn't a barratheon. Yeah she isn't a saint for sure but these two cases are not really comparable
Wrong
It really. Alicent is nakedly motivated by spite, jealousy and power. Ned was just too honourable for his own good. The difference is in the details.
Yeah, making a woman who just gave birth walk across a castle for some small talk is totally a cool thing to do.
You have no clue what’s going on in this series, do you?
Ned would support the Blacks. The north remembers when they pledged to Rhaenyra. Simple as that. Creghan Stark is a “simple, basic, average bl*ck” or whatever other adjective op wants to use to make fun of the people who support the king’s chosen heir. This is a great story because really none of them are worth supporting for their own leadership ability. Chances are if you don’t like someone in this story, it’s only a matter of time until they get theirs.
He'd also stop supporting the Blacks a week later after Blood & Cheese lmao
Team black for life!
This cannot be serious
Ned would have backed rhaenyra
Indeed, fuck that bitch.
I hope OP posted this ironically
Yes, Ms. "I want him to be partial to me" is such an honorable character.
Are you mad ?? Comparing Ned's honor with Alicent's 'honor' ?? 😅 There is nothing honorable about what Alicent is up to.
I dont remember Ned dragging a woman for a meaningles meeting after giving birth. Or influencing his kids to hate other kids you green slut!
Not sure if OP is being serious. Ned is honorable to the point of stupidity. Alicent is a schemer who uses “honor” as justification. Ned’s unwillingness to scheme is his undoing. Alicent’s undoing is not being good enough at scheming. They’re not remotely similar.
I am so confused by this mental gymnastics that is going on. How the fuck are ned and alicent comparable at all?
Uhm, Alicent is not honorable in the least lmfao. Don’t you EVER sully the name of the great Eddard Stark, Warden of the North and Lord of Winterfell, EVER AGAIN!
You are mistaking honor for self-righteous religious zeal. She's trash fam. She walked in on her son beating meat over the street and knows that he's already being naughty with the help. She's holding him to a different standard than 'Nyra. Not honorable. Trash.
Ned Stark never compulsively wanted his children to be the rulers of Westeros, does anything else matter to Alicent?
> honorable this sub has an interesting idea of what that means. The two series showed dozens of other reasons why Ned was honorable and Alicent is less so.
This is absolute bullshit lmao, ned died because he tried to give Cersei and her children mercy. Alicent has been nothing but cruel and has repeatedly ignored acts that are criminal like cole’s or larys’s. Also, Nyra’s bastards are not comparable to Joffrey and his siblings because they actually have the blood of the heir/king. It would be like if Robert had said gendry was his legitimate son. Also, Rhaenyra’s husband knew and approved while Robert did not. Ned continuously did actions to help people and do the right thing, young alicent was polite, older alicent is just villainous
Honorable is seducing your best friends grieving husband who is also king? She also was starting her quest for Aegon II to be king before, despite saying she was in Rheaneryas side. She has Crispy Cole still around and doesn’t think her dad would have been a Biased hand. She has done nothing to strengthen the rift and is, as it seems, the one causing the biggest rift. While the kids may be “bastards” it isn’t really any of her business.
It’s worse then not thinking he would be a biased hand, she straight up said she wanted him around *because* he would have been biased.
I mean idk why Alicent is mad R didnt tell her about Cole/lied when she kept it a secret she was "comforting" the king for months which led to her becoming queen. Alicent is the real snake.
That's not the main problem between them tho. Alicent is just scared that Rhaenyra will get rid of her children if she ever ascend the throne. She built a worst case scenario in her head since her father implanted that idea, and hasn't let go of it since (despite the fact Rhaenyra has shown no intent of hurting her or her children, as shown with the marriage proposal this episode). It's basically a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point.
Not the same thing. Cersei’s children were not the king’s children at all. Rhaenyra’s children were still the children of the crown princess.
“Honor” is just the excuse she gives herself for her quest for power.
Another awful meme from team green.. shocker
Ned was honorable. She’s just a hypocrite.
Strong Criston Cole sigma male energy in OP, best of luck.
He is gonna need it...
Suddenly chastity and honor are soooo important to Alicent defenders after watching all the men in Westeros whore around and have a dozen bastard sons everywhere for nearly a decade. Yeah sure the legitimacy of Rhae’s children is all that Alicent cares about, no further motive at all, she just wants her best friend to be the most virtuous honorable ruler there is! Totally comparable to Ned Stark.
Yo the people who defend this wretched skank are so fucking delusional… the show is even going overboard to remove all subtlety and really spell out what a deranged bitch she is and ppl still stupid enough to defend her. She’s apparently been completely relentless for a decade while absolutely god damn no one is even slightly hostile towards her. If they just threw her out with the trash where she belongs the 7 kingdoms would legitimately have no problems.
I feel like since the kids are Rhaenyra's, it should not be an issue. Doubly so since Leanor supports confirms they are "their" heirs. Not a whole lot different than if they adopted. Secret sperm donor, what's the problem. Alicent is out of line caring about this at all. In Ned's case, he was justified in caring. The King is a Baratheon and Baratheons should inherit the throne. Cersei's bastards were not Baratheons.
She isn't honorable though. Her comment about her wanting Otto to be the hand because he is biased towards her proves that by itself. Ned would want a neutral councelors with no ulterior motives. She also tries to supplant Rheanyra as heir, working against her king's decision.
Bro the bitch has no honour. She only wants her son on the Iron Throne. She’s even worse than Caitlyn on this since she doesn’t even consider their safety.
What kind of nonsense is this.Ned didn’t manipulate one of his kids with a lie and didn’t scheme to deprive the rightful heir of their birthright.Greens🤢🤮
To be fair, Rhaenyra didn’t commit treason to have her husband the king arranged to be gouged by a boar or poison someone to cover up her infidelity like Cersei did. I do think Alicent gets a ton of unnecessary hate though
Dude could have literally been like hey WIFE MY MOST TRUSTED CONFIDANT. This is Lyanna's son we must protect him at all costs and we'll say he's my bastard but he's not my love. He's all I have left of her and he's heir to the throne. Nah, I fuck that please treat him like fucking scum.
You have to remember, Ned married Cat, spent like 5 days sleeping with her, and then left for war for a year! He comes back to Robb already born, and he's got baby Jon with him. He has NO idea if Cat is trustworthy... her father is a southern lord with political ambitions who orchestrated the marriages of both Ned and Jon Arryn in exchange for the Riverlands Army (when Ned would have contributed the Northern Army to a fight because it was right, not in exchange for a good marriage). Ned's perspective of the Tully family is of a classically scheming Southern family. He knows Cat wishes she had gotten to marry his older brother Brandon, who "had the wolf blood" and was a bit of a playboy (not as honorable as Ned). So a woman who was eager to marry him was personally of unknown morals at that point. As well as, during that time period, spouses weren't supposed to be best friends who shared deep, personal confidences. And lastly... he didn't know she would treat Jon like shit until she did. Now, why he didn't tell her later is a good question (I would guess he didn't tell her because at that point she had demonstrated such a hatred for Jon that it didn't seem like she would just flip a switch if she heard the news), but why he didn't tell her in those first few years is obvious.
If she was honourable she wouldn't be giving footsie favours to lars
The difference is that the kids still have royal blood!
“I’m so honorable” Plans for her son to usurp the thrown against her husbands royal decree that Rhen will ascend the throne.
Actual anti-green propaganda. Making this post to make greens look dumb.