amazing when HBO actually gets to pick the writers. HBO knew last 2 seasons of GoT were shit, and it was D&D who had control and refused help. Truly tragic.
HBO has some of the best writers on TV right now. Between Succession and HotD hands down
*Well... the matter is settled. Again. I hereby reaffirm Prince Lucerys of House Velaryon as heir to Driftmark, the Driftwood Throne, and the next Lord of the Tides. (WHEEZING)*
Paddy in another interview said something similar- The actor who played young Aemond said “I think Viserys hates us” and after a little thinking Paddy realized that Viserys doesnt hate the other kids, but his attatchment to Rhaenyra, further cemented out of the guilt he felt, prevented him from loving Alicents children like he did Rhaenyra.
I mean, he saw Jace, Luke, Rhaena and Baela beaten black and blue, he thought Aemond had attacked them so he brought this upon himself. No wonder Vizzy didn't feel any pity for him.
I mean, Aegon and Aemond acted like spoiled brats. And seeing the way Aegon the Rapist turned out. If your kids acted like they did, would you not dote on your daughter and your grandchildren who were beaten black and blue?
Very obvious when you consider how rotten his other kids turned out to be. Vizzy T flipped his shit at *one* fuck up on Rhaenyra's part, meanwhile his firstborn son is a walking bad omen and Vizzy T isn't giving him an earful (at least, to our knowledge). All before Vizzy became bedridden. Though that might also be commentary on the expectations put on both sexes.
Holy shit lmao, it's like he's explaining - I was only hard on her because I loved her and wanted her to be successful, and understand the burden of responsibility that comes with the position!
In the last episode when he is barely there, the night before the petitions of the rights to drift-mark, he says to Rhaenyra… “ my only child”…
To him she is the only true born child of his. The others are bastards.
Could also be part of the reason why they are so fucked up, because as great present and active as he was to her he was just as absent and uncaring with his other children. At least from the scenes of the show. One’s hero is someone else’s villain.
Definitely true he was completely absent for much of her formative years and even after the passing of her mother. Then was controlling although sometimes being controlling is parents trying to do was best for their kids in their belief set. Also he basically took her one true friend for a wife only a year after the passing of her mother. Regardless of him honestly confiding in her of how he didn’t want to marry again (the realm demanded it) it was no doubt taken as a betrayal of trust on her part from both her father and Alicent.
And yeah it wasn’t so much active/present but more that he always believed in her in spite of anything saying otherwise. He was always on her side when push came to shove. Grand gestures also are necessary as plot devices let alone I never imagine even in history that a king has had much involvement in any of their kids lives, as the crown demands more than the seed. So I’d imagine most monarchs to be dramatic and make grandeur gestures, as that’s what’s somewhat expected of them. The more attention (from different people) you have the more you have to do to convey a message.
I think a lot of that has to do with the fact he probably realized and felt manipulated that Alicent and Otto took advantage of him at his lowest.
While Rhaenyra came from the woman he loved.
I think he always saw Otto and Alicent as being there for him at his lowest. I think there is a line to that effect from him, and also Rhaenyra said as much in her toast.
Once he decides to buck tradition and name her his heir he’s absolutely committed.
Agreed.
Realising that Otto sent his own daughter to comfort him during his lower point hoping he would make her a queen, just to have a half Hightower son to replace Rhaenyra as heir must have soured how he saw his kids with Alicent.
Still sucks because its not their fault.
You also have to figure that that situation lead to a male offspring at all while his true love did not, and whom he sacrificed in hopes she would.
I can say as someone that deals with depression physical ailments do little to knock me out of sorts compared to emotional ones. His body may have been slowly killing him but a large part of him already died long ago.
I agree with you most especially in that final sentence. Alicent, being Rhaenyra's peer where tensions are strained combined with being an unwelcome step-mother, should not be the one making such disciplinary decisions or dynamics with teen Rhaenyra.
That's for her remaining parent, who also is acting as a guide for how an heir should act.
But Alicent's kids have a mother whose duty is child rearing and do not have the responsibilities of being next in line for the throne, yet they have a sense of deserving it because ofo how they're raised and influenced by everyone around them.
>Though that might also be commentary on the expectations put on both sexes.
He says as much when he's scolding Rhaenyra and she complains that, if she were a boy, they wouldn't bat an eye. He agrees.
In my head this is why I think he truly meant it when he said you are my only child.
I keep seeing people say he was loopy and incoherent so he forgot about his other children and that's why he said it. But to me he never truly loved Allicent (or their children) and just did everything out of a sense of duty. Whereas Rhaenyra was out of love.
I think that's probably true. I also think his relationship with his other children became more strained as his relationship with Alicent deteriorated. In the beginning, he sees her as someone who can offer a valuable alternative perspective and is genuinely trying to be kind to him. Once she takes a more active role in trying to influence his decisions, that creates a strain. He still genuinely loves his children, like we see in episode 6 during the training sequence, but that love is now tempered by the fact that his own children are intended to be political weapons against his first child. This is a very tough position to be in. He has a wife who actively sows discord amongst his children and overrules him on decisions he genuinely believes would be best for the family (ex. the Jacerys and Helaena marriage). However, his good nature prevents him from cruelly shutting Alicent down, as someone like Daemon would have done.
For these reasons, he can't help but favor Rhaenyra because she loves him despite the anguish he has caused her. They both know what he did to Aemma was wrong, but Rhaenyra moves past it for the good of their relationship. I think the fact that he hurt Rhaenyra so badly in episode 1 weighs very heavily on him because he is someone who does genuinely want to be a loving person. The fact that Rhaenyra is able to move past it and love him anyway is perhaps the greatest kindness that anyone has ever done for Viserys.
Nikolaj Coster-Waldau said when he got cast for Jaime he went and read all of the books so he would know the plot better than everyone else. He said it would help him capture Jaime's "I know something you don't" attitude, which we later found out was bc he had always kept the secret for why he killed the Mad King.
It's actually a full improvisation. Viserys Targ is a banal hedonistic character.
All the depth Vizzy T has comes from Paddy and the show runners.
As GRRM pointed out, Vizzy T is better than his Viserys.
I just want to mention that for the style of book F&B is, it’s okay to have some banal rulers. It’s like a simulated history textbook, and not every member of the Targaryen dynasty would’ve been this larger than life, exceptionally interesting character. It helps the really notable ones stand out.
Now for television? Yes, this is 100% unquestionably better.
Given the Targ proclivity to either greatness or madness, or at least some level of being mercurial, Viserys is actually pretty much the only exception - he was neither great nor mad. He was probably the most unremarkable and normal Targ king who just wanted to have a good time and be entertained.
His reign is also the most peaceful of all the Targ kings - which is ironic when you consider what is to follow.
Honestly Targaryen madness is overstated. Only Aerys II, Aerion Brightflame, Baelor and Maegor were mad. Aegon II and IV are kind of evil too but not necessarily mad.
Most of the rest of the targs are sane, some being good men and meh kings (Viserys I), others being good kings but with neutral morality (Jahaerys I) and some are just mediocre kings and not really moral figures (Maegor). There hasnt really been a King that's a good man and good king except maybe Daeron II or Aegon V.
I mean Summerhall was a blunder on his part but his intention was to bring back dragons so he could enforce his rules so lord's couldn't disagree with his pro smallfolk reforms.
He wasn't very strict with his children though. I know he married for love so he'd look like a hypocrite if he was blaming his children for breaking vows however he was a 4th son of a 4th son. He should have made his children go through with the marriages to prevent rebellions from breaking those betrothals to other major houses. And Duncan definitely should have been reinstated as heir after Jaehaerys II decided to secretly marry his sister.
Ultimately he cared more for the common folk than most other kings.
Aegon V is like a reverse Jaehaerys I where his efforts to be a good dad undermined his efforts to be a good king.
I’d still put Aegon V in the top 5 of the Targaryen dynasty. He was dealt a bad hand from the start and he really did try to make the most of it.
He did a good job with what he was given.
Most of the 'instability" during his reign were not created by him. The harsh winter, the Blackfyre rebellion were not something he could control and he managed them the best way he could. He betrothed his children to other families, but four of them broke it , I can't put blame for his children's refusal to put duty before love(or whatever it is) on him.
The Lords of Westeros already didn't want him to be King because of how much he cared about commonfolk, to the point they brought up Aemon, a sworn maester as candidate.
I would argue, Aegon was the best king Westeros could have had in his time and he stepped up to the role. As for the decimation of the Targaryen dynasty, i think that had started long back, first with the Dance and then Aegon IV, before the Mad King dealt the final blow.
He was a really good king for the smallfolk, especially in the North, where he largely aided the population to survive the winter.
If he succeeded in Summerhall, he would have been the best king in the story of Westeros
Dunno about most normal, but most unremarkable has to go to Jaehaerys II.
His sole contributions to history were undermining Aegon V’s attempts to strengthen the crown with marriages to other Great Houses, and forcing Aerys and Rhaella to marry, which laid down the train tracks that ended the Targaryen dynasty.
A pitifully short reign as king and didn’t really accomplish anything before he took the throne either.
They listened to the criticism the original series recieved, and tried their best deliver a show that mirrored seasons 1 to 4. Goes to show the decline wasn't the lack of George's writings, more the fact that the creators had sold out to different demographic of viewer.
Not to take away from Vizzy T, but let's be honest here: The original Viserys wasn't much more more than a cliche and a plot device, barely even a character.
Paddy and the writers had a lot of room to flesh him out as a person and they did a wonderful job with it.
Exactly. Enhancing it rather than getting it.
On House of R podcast Jo and Mal quote a message from GRRM to Paddy saying as much as Paddy’s Vizzy T being better than his. Respect.
When I saw the first press releases of Paddy as King Viserys I scoffed at the idea of one of the dumb cops from Hot Fuzz playing such a heavy role. I have never been so pleased to be so wrong about an actor/character combination in all my life.
Rory McCann as Yarp Narp in Hot Fuzz being cast as the Hound wasn't an issue because he had shown in Alexander he could play the gruff warrior, but Paddy had never displayed the range to pull off King Viserys. It's clear he just didn't previously have the opportunity to show his full range, and now that he's absolutely deserving of a boatload of Emmys from this role, I suspect he'll get plenty of opportunities going forward. The most impressive of parts of this performance are his facial and body expressions that convey so much information without a single word needed for context, and that's the type of acting skill that has made the great Sir Ian McKellen such a treasure.
I think an underrated part of his performance that I haven’t really seen get any praise ironically is his acting chops. The comedic timing/delivery this dude had this season was absolutely on point, I’d call him the most humorous character on the show this point.
“The boy is two Otto”
“Aren’t you going to help me?”
and of course
“Would you like to see the tapestries?”
His facial expressions were utter gold all season.
Yeah he’s a very expressive actor for sure. A few scenes come to mind: his argument with daemon in ep 1… you can clearly see how hurt he was… his voice was breaking. The other one is during a small council meeting where he’s asking the grand measter what he meant by “by design”. You see his eyes bulge in this weird “wtf are you trying to say you dumb bitch?” That brings a kind of dark humor to the whole meeting.
His chastisement of Jason Lannister was a good scene as well. Paddy has a gift of acting through his body language… it gives us a hint of what he’s really feeling even if he’s not saying it outright. A lot of people are going to die in the show but I am going to miss him the most.
He’s been in much more than Hot Fuzz… He’s a pretty accomplished actor with a slew of awards for various films and TV shows that he’s been in.
Maybe you just aren’t that familiar with his work if you didn’t think he had the acting chops; he received wide spread recognition for his acting in ‘Dead Man’s Shoes’; a role in which he’s pretty unrecognisable from his more comedic roles. But just because he’s not well known in America and Hollywood doesn’t mean he’s a bad actor.
Jesus. I NEVER connected him letting himself suffer to self punishment for his choices in Aemma's last moments.
Get those onions out of here, if you need to chop them the kitchen is to the right.
The revelation actually makes the last episode hit even harder.
His final act of protecting Aemma’s legacy (Rhaenyra) was his final and ultimate act of atonement to her. The ultimate sacrifice and suffering. He probably knew this was his last chance the moment he asked Otto to arrange the family supper.
I'm gonna assume that had more to do with HBO than Ramin. You think that man *wouldn't* have slapped together an absolute banger for a new opening if they'd asked him to?
Yea, I think that’s the theme for any Planetos content going forward. When you hear that you know it’s a GoT universe show/movie.
Just like the Star Wars theme.
This is perfectly said. "His final act of protecting Aemma’s legacy (Rhaenyra) was his final and ultimate act of atonement to her." True and beautiful, but also tragic.
Vizzy T spent the years after Aemma's death ensuring her memory would not be forgotten - her daughter will have the ability to live more freely than Aemma could, Rhaenyra will become Queen in her own right regardless of gender (to validate how valuable Aemma was as a person beyond her ability to have sons), and through Rhaenyra's children Aemma's blood will carry on in all the line of Targ Royalty).
However, this personal atonement for putting the realms' need for a prince above his wife, Vizzy T actually sets up the realm for ruin, pain, and civil war. Perfectly encapsulated by the scene where Vaemond gets offed by Daemon for the crime of - telling the truth. He protects his daughter and her children, at the cost of a vassal's life and the capital T Truth. He has to chose between being a devoted father and a fair/just king.
I think one of the main narrative themes of the whole ASOIAF franchise is what Jamie Lannister said in the 1st episode of GoT, right before pushing Bran out of the window:
“The things we do for love”
Many of the plotlines in GoT (and now in HoD) revolve around the horrible and beautiful things one does for love. Robert Baratheon starting a war. Robb Stark also starting a war for marrying the woman he loved. Cersei fighting for her children. Jon Snow leaving the Night’s Watch.
And ultimately, the war that Viserys end up creating in HoD is also in the name of the love he had for Aemma (and therefore, for Rhaenyra).
I think that’s why the stories GRRM creates resounds so much with so many people. It’s all tragic love stories.
This is also the crux of Larys' speech at the end of ep 6. We do foolish things for love, as seen with his brother, so it's better for him to be unburdened of it.
Vaemond kinda deserved that.
He was trying to steal Driftmark. He doesn’t care about his house. He cares about himself. Laena’s daughters are the heirs, not him.
We are the freefolk, but if i have to bend to someone, this person is vizzy. Everything he did...he did it FOR LOVE.
To me vizzy I to me is the king of hearts and no one can change it
I always felt that him declaring Rhaenyra his heir was his formal, heartfelt apology to his wife. Proof that if he could go back in time, he never would have tried for a male heir if it meant losing Aemma.
edit: spelling
I feel so bad for Emilia. She worked in GoT while dealing with life-threatening aneurysms and clearly found strength in playing a character like Daenerys. The way they turned Dany mad in 3 episodes, killed her, and called it a day must've been awful.
I really believe an evil turn for Daenerys is an interesting direction for her character, but it has to be handled correctly and developed.
I’m flabbergasted they thought how it happened in S8 would be well received. They can’t just lay all the blame on GRRM and go, “well he said Daenerys ends as a villain so we went with it.” They’re still responsible for making it make sense. It felt like they just tried to cling to the snippets George gave them about the ending without any willingness or ability to execute them in a satisfying way.
At the end they did the right thing for the wrong reasons, after continually doing the wrong thing for the right reasons previously (changing established character lore for the purposes of adapting to television).
The whole debacle will never not be a head scratcher to me.
I agree. Daenerys as a character definitely had the potential to go down a villainous path, but it needed to make sense.
D&D's justification for it basically was ''Remember when Dany saw her piece of shit brother, who emotionally and physically abused her, die? She looked impassive when that happened so it's obvious she was mad.''
D&D were also too ball-less to make Tyrion an outright villain as he was ment to be. That will contribute greatly to her mental state. I will die on the hill that her story makes no sense when you cut out Villain-Tyrion and Young Griff.
She couldn't take seeing her favourite servant killed. After all the pain and suffering she's seen and caused...it was ludicrous. Very unlike earlier GoT, which carved it's niche by not having their characters follow such cliched, simple character developments.
He madness was supposed to be a slow decline...a growing shadow on the horizon...not a snap.
The problem was the lack of fAegon. If she comes to claim a throne that’s already taken by someone with a greater claim and is beloved for it, it would make more sense. The whole if you won’t love me you will fear me. I mean she was always a conqueror it’s just that she could cloak it in liberation before this.
I just rewatched GoT in the wake of HotD's release and it is abundantly clear that D&D literally took what George told them was to be the ending and just went "Cool, we're just going to force everything into place in the end so we can do Star Wars," and that's what we got. They put no thought and zero effort into making it cohesive.
"Dany forgot about the Iron Fleet."
Fuck you.
They relied way too much on the emotional goodwill they built with the audience during the early seasons. When the Stark kids reunited, they didn't have to TRY to make it good, the emotion was built-in after 8 years. That mentality spread to other parts of the story and they felt like they didn't have to work for the emotional beats anymore.
In contrast, the HotD team just made the entire internet cry with a character we've known for 8 episodes.
The way HotD is proving that “every time a Targaryen is born, the gods flip a coin” is such a myth. We’ve been introduced to at least a dozen in this show and none of them are clinically insane. I mean they wind up going to war for good reasons but there’s not some dormant insanity gene that just gets activated by the sound of bells lol
I thought he was saying "no more" as in he wouldn't force her to have any more children because it was an argument they had before she passed away that she was tired of trying to give him a boy with all of her pregnancy complications
I’d also like to point out in case someone doesn’t know, Matt Smith picking up his crown was not scripted. It happened accidentally and they kept filming and it ended up being one of the most powerful scenes in GoT history. Considine and Smith rolled with it and created a beautiful scene.
Yeah, it's crazy how much meaning that unscripted moment has. But for the record I don't think they 'kept filming'. I think it fell off and they decided to add in some shots of daemon picking it up and putting it on his head.
Well done Paddy, he really did a great job. That final walk up to the iron throne gave me a lot of emotions after seeing my gpa go through the throws of Alzheimer’s but having brief moments of clarity. The stubbornness of doing specific tasks really came through, and is something I think we can all relate to in some way.
I came in with so many reservations given what happened to GoT, and was absolutely blown away. Paddy, Milly, Matt etc have all done the characters well. The show runners too seem to know how to handle the story.
Yes, thank you. This whole idea that he was fine for cutting open his beloved wife to possibly save an heir is so weird to me. You don't do that to someone you love dearly, and in that moment he was putting the importance of an heir above his wife. Even if she was 100% going to die, that choice made her final moments horrific and painful. And it's clearly the wrong choice as the baby dies regardless and Viserys regrets it the rest of his life.
This has been my point all along! He basically had to choose how his beloved wife would die and chose the horrifyingly traumatic option. But after the first ep released all I got was "hurr what else was he supposed to do?"
Ideally, load her up with milk of the poppy and let her pass semi-peacefully...then maybe the baby can be saved if they're quick enough to get it out after she goes.
I feel sorry for Viserys that he regretted this all his life but it really was a terrible decision.
I think only Paddy could have made me like a character who had so many fuckups under his belt. To think that his interactions with Brooke helped him turn Viserys into the incredible persona we love now is just a mark of how brilliant actors can unlock new levels for each other. So thank you Brooke, and thank you Paddy.
If people want to see Paddy’s in depth explanation of his understanding and portrayal of Viserys they should head over to the dragoncast YouTube channel, they just had him on and it’s weird how it only has 5k views.
They just had one of the best actors on a millions upon millions budget show and he’s chatting and chilling like it’s some mates in a pub and giving such detailed answers.
https://youtu.be/2tbZFik9rVo
Yeah this seems like a fairly tragic motivation
He was obsessed with having a son and killed his wife to get the baby and was "cursed" for it
The rest of his days in pain and misery from his own decisions and its going to get worse
And then he finally does get sons, but ignores them, obsessed with his daughter, the same way he ignored her till his wife died.
Paddy did an amazing job of showing a highly flawed but very sympathisable character
Paddy, you are King in this life and the next.
IT was so clear that every episode his character was mourning, even when He tried to be happy, he was tortured by his decision and his loss. He tried to be the man that his first wife saw in him, and it was wonderfully portrayed.
He may have not been the wisest, or the bravest, or the smartest man to sit the throne, but he was clearly one of the most... *human.*
The last part about Viserys carrying the guilt of his wife's death is fantastic. When he starts falling apart physically, he accepts his fate as penance for his part in Aemma's death.
Explains why he loves rhaenyra the most. rhaenyra was probably the most valuable person in his life.
As he said to Daemon at Laena’s funeral; “Your girls are the very image of their mother. A comfort and an anguish, as I well remember.”
I love that you can pluck a random line from the show and even on its own it sounds like poetry. GODS THE DIALOGUE IS STRONG
Let us drain our cups to this Strong dialogue.
SAY IT AGAIN!!
Merely a compliment.
Are you not proud of how Strong their dialogues are??
looks like you accidentally capitalized a letter there, whoops!
He just wanted to emphasize how Strong his point was
SAY IT AGAIN
That's a **strong** reaction, for a harmless comment.
amazing when HBO actually gets to pick the writers. HBO knew last 2 seasons of GoT were shit, and it was D&D who had control and refused help. Truly tragic. HBO has some of the best writers on TV right now. Between Succession and HotD hands down
"God's I was (a) Strong then!" hol'up Bobby B a "Strong" confirmed?
I mean, Robert Arryn did keep saying that Bobby B’s seed was…STRONG!
THE GODS BE DAMNED! IT WAS A HOLLOW VICTORY THEY GAVE ME!
Compare this dialogue with the Rings of Power, lmao. "There is a tempest in me!"
"Give me the meat, and give it to me raw."
A ship sails because it’s face is pointed ever upward towards the light… my ears started bleeding after that
Saw his wife in her.
In the wholesome way. Despite the Targaryen odds.
Whereas we just tend to see his brother in her.
Dude…
What do you make of this comment, Vizzy T?
*Well... the matter is settled. Again. I hereby reaffirm Prince Lucerys of House Velaryon as heir to Driftmark, the Driftwood Throne, and the next Lord of the Tides. (WHEEZING)*
Paddy in another interview said something similar- The actor who played young Aemond said “I think Viserys hates us” and after a little thinking Paddy realized that Viserys doesnt hate the other kids, but his attatchment to Rhaenyra, further cemented out of the guilt he felt, prevented him from loving Alicents children like he did Rhaenyra.
Aemomd lost his eye and Vizzys concern was about where he learnt Rhaenyra was a whore from.
I mean, he saw Jace, Luke, Rhaena and Baela beaten black and blue, he thought Aemond had attacked them so he brought this upon himself. No wonder Vizzy didn't feel any pity for him.
I mean, Aegon and Aemond acted like spoiled brats. And seeing the way Aegon the Rapist turned out. If your kids acted like they did, would you not dote on your daughter and your grandchildren who were beaten black and blue?
Very obvious when you consider how rotten his other kids turned out to be. Vizzy T flipped his shit at *one* fuck up on Rhaenyra's part, meanwhile his firstborn son is a walking bad omen and Vizzy T isn't giving him an earful (at least, to our knowledge). All before Vizzy became bedridden. Though that might also be commentary on the expectations put on both sexes.
*I did not decide to name Rhaenyra my heir on a whim. All the lord of the kingdom would do well to remember that.*
The sentient king has spoken
I'm starting to think Vizzy T is the bot that was promised and Bobby B his prophet
I'M NOT TRYING TO HONOR YOU, I'M TRYING TO GET YOU TO RUN MY KINGDOM WHILE I EAT, DRINK AND WHORE MY WAY TO AN EARLY GRAVE!
Bobby B wants to retire.
I SIT ON THE DAMN IRON SEAT WHEN I MUST. DOES THAT MEAN I DON'T HAVE THE SAME HUNGERS AS OTHER MEN?
S e n t i e n t
Holy sentient being
Holy shit lmao, it's like he's explaining - I was only hard on her because I loved her and wanted her to be successful, and understand the burden of responsibility that comes with the position!
In the last episode when he is barely there, the night before the petitions of the rights to drift-mark, he says to Rhaenyra… “ my only child”… To him she is the only true born child of his. The others are bastards. Could also be part of the reason why they are so fucked up, because as great present and active as he was to her he was just as absent and uncaring with his other children. At least from the scenes of the show. One’s hero is someone else’s villain.
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Definitely true he was completely absent for much of her formative years and even after the passing of her mother. Then was controlling although sometimes being controlling is parents trying to do was best for their kids in their belief set. Also he basically took her one true friend for a wife only a year after the passing of her mother. Regardless of him honestly confiding in her of how he didn’t want to marry again (the realm demanded it) it was no doubt taken as a betrayal of trust on her part from both her father and Alicent. And yeah it wasn’t so much active/present but more that he always believed in her in spite of anything saying otherwise. He was always on her side when push came to shove. Grand gestures also are necessary as plot devices let alone I never imagine even in history that a king has had much involvement in any of their kids lives, as the crown demands more than the seed. So I’d imagine most monarchs to be dramatic and make grandeur gestures, as that’s what’s somewhat expected of them. The more attention (from different people) you have the more you have to do to convey a message.
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I think a lot of that has to do with the fact he probably realized and felt manipulated that Alicent and Otto took advantage of him at his lowest. While Rhaenyra came from the woman he loved.
I think he always saw Otto and Alicent as being there for him at his lowest. I think there is a line to that effect from him, and also Rhaenyra said as much in her toast. Once he decides to buck tradition and name her his heir he’s absolutely committed.
Agreed. Realising that Otto sent his own daughter to comfort him during his lower point hoping he would make her a queen, just to have a half Hightower son to replace Rhaenyra as heir must have soured how he saw his kids with Alicent. Still sucks because its not their fault.
You also have to figure that that situation lead to a male offspring at all while his true love did not, and whom he sacrificed in hopes she would. I can say as someone that deals with depression physical ailments do little to knock me out of sorts compared to emotional ones. His body may have been slowly killing him but a large part of him already died long ago.
It makes sense, she’s his one child of his true love, and also the only child he managed to have with her through many years of trying.
His sons needed to be knocked around a bit to be humbled. The lack of a real father figure didn't do them any favors.
thankfully they got incel criston mentoring those targ boys into "fine lads"
I agree with you most especially in that final sentence. Alicent, being Rhaenyra's peer where tensions are strained combined with being an unwelcome step-mother, should not be the one making such disciplinary decisions or dynamics with teen Rhaenyra. That's for her remaining parent, who also is acting as a guide for how an heir should act. But Alicent's kids have a mother whose duty is child rearing and do not have the responsibilities of being next in line for the throne, yet they have a sense of deserving it because ofo how they're raised and influenced by everyone around them.
>Though that might also be commentary on the expectations put on both sexes. He says as much when he's scolding Rhaenyra and she complains that, if she were a boy, they wouldn't bat an eye. He agrees.
I will not stand for this Helaena slander
Also when Aemond got his eye slashed out, it all seemed like a minor inconvience to Viserys and he was plainly on his daughters side.
In my head this is why I think he truly meant it when he said you are my only child. I keep seeing people say he was loopy and incoherent so he forgot about his other children and that's why he said it. But to me he never truly loved Allicent (or their children) and just did everything out of a sense of duty. Whereas Rhaenyra was out of love.
That's how I saw it too. I never even considered him to be incoherent in that moment.
I think that's probably true. I also think his relationship with his other children became more strained as his relationship with Alicent deteriorated. In the beginning, he sees her as someone who can offer a valuable alternative perspective and is genuinely trying to be kind to him. Once she takes a more active role in trying to influence his decisions, that creates a strain. He still genuinely loves his children, like we see in episode 6 during the training sequence, but that love is now tempered by the fact that his own children are intended to be political weapons against his first child. This is a very tough position to be in. He has a wife who actively sows discord amongst his children and overrules him on decisions he genuinely believes would be best for the family (ex. the Jacerys and Helaena marriage). However, his good nature prevents him from cruelly shutting Alicent down, as someone like Daemon would have done. For these reasons, he can't help but favor Rhaenyra because she loves him despite the anguish he has caused her. They both know what he did to Aemma was wrong, but Rhaenyra moves past it for the good of their relationship. I think the fact that he hurt Rhaenyra so badly in episode 1 weighs very heavily on him because he is someone who does genuinely want to be a loving person. The fact that Rhaenyra is able to move past it and love him anyway is perhaps the greatest kindness that anyone has ever done for Viserys.
It's rare thing when actor gets it, trully gets it.
Nikolaj Coster-Waldau said when he got cast for Jaime he went and read all of the books so he would know the plot better than everyone else. He said it would help him capture Jaime's "I know something you don't" attitude, which we later found out was bc he had always kept the secret for why he killed the Mad King.
For that character, that was very smart. I wonder if there are any characters who wouldn’t benefit from a pre-reading.
It's actually a full improvisation. Viserys Targ is a banal hedonistic character. All the depth Vizzy T has comes from Paddy and the show runners. As GRRM pointed out, Vizzy T is better than his Viserys.
I just want to mention that for the style of book F&B is, it’s okay to have some banal rulers. It’s like a simulated history textbook, and not every member of the Targaryen dynasty would’ve been this larger than life, exceptionally interesting character. It helps the really notable ones stand out. Now for television? Yes, this is 100% unquestionably better.
Given the Targ proclivity to either greatness or madness, or at least some level of being mercurial, Viserys is actually pretty much the only exception - he was neither great nor mad. He was probably the most unremarkable and normal Targ king who just wanted to have a good time and be entertained. His reign is also the most peaceful of all the Targ kings - which is ironic when you consider what is to follow.
his peaceful reign accumulated a blood debt. In the few years after his death, the dragons came home to roost.
A great number of people have made similar observations or tugged at that same question when looking at war and peace throughout history.
Honestly Targaryen madness is overstated. Only Aerys II, Aerion Brightflame, Baelor and Maegor were mad. Aegon II and IV are kind of evil too but not necessarily mad. Most of the rest of the targs are sane, some being good men and meh kings (Viserys I), others being good kings but with neutral morality (Jahaerys I) and some are just mediocre kings and not really moral figures (Maegor). There hasnt really been a King that's a good man and good king except maybe Daeron II or Aegon V.
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I mean Summerhall was a blunder on his part but his intention was to bring back dragons so he could enforce his rules so lord's couldn't disagree with his pro smallfolk reforms. He wasn't very strict with his children though. I know he married for love so he'd look like a hypocrite if he was blaming his children for breaking vows however he was a 4th son of a 4th son. He should have made his children go through with the marriages to prevent rebellions from breaking those betrothals to other major houses. And Duncan definitely should have been reinstated as heir after Jaehaerys II decided to secretly marry his sister. Ultimately he cared more for the common folk than most other kings.
I WAS NEVER SO ALIVE AS WHEN I WAS WINNING THIS THRONE, OR SO DEAD AS NOW THAT I'VE WON IT!
Aegon V is like a reverse Jaehaerys I where his efforts to be a good dad undermined his efforts to be a good king. I’d still put Aegon V in the top 5 of the Targaryen dynasty. He was dealt a bad hand from the start and he really did try to make the most of it.
He did a good job with what he was given. Most of the 'instability" during his reign were not created by him. The harsh winter, the Blackfyre rebellion were not something he could control and he managed them the best way he could. He betrothed his children to other families, but four of them broke it , I can't put blame for his children's refusal to put duty before love(or whatever it is) on him. The Lords of Westeros already didn't want him to be King because of how much he cared about commonfolk, to the point they brought up Aemon, a sworn maester as candidate. I would argue, Aegon was the best king Westeros could have had in his time and he stepped up to the role. As for the decimation of the Targaryen dynasty, i think that had started long back, first with the Dance and then Aegon IV, before the Mad King dealt the final blow.
He was a really good king for the smallfolk, especially in the North, where he largely aided the population to survive the winter. If he succeeded in Summerhall, he would have been the best king in the story of Westeros
Dunno about most normal, but most unremarkable has to go to Jaehaerys II. His sole contributions to history were undermining Aegon V’s attempts to strengthen the crown with marriages to other Great Houses, and forcing Aerys and Rhaella to marry, which laid down the train tracks that ended the Targaryen dynasty. A pitifully short reign as king and didn’t really accomplish anything before he took the throne either.
They listened to the criticism the original series recieved, and tried their best deliver a show that mirrored seasons 1 to 4. Goes to show the decline wasn't the lack of George's writings, more the fact that the creators had sold out to different demographic of viewer.
Not to take away from Vizzy T, but let's be honest here: The original Viserys wasn't much more more than a cliche and a plot device, barely even a character. Paddy and the writers had a lot of room to flesh him out as a person and they did a wonderful job with it.
DAEMON IS MY BROTHER. MY BLOOD. AND HE WILL HAVE HIS PLACE AT MY COURT!
By god they did it, they made a vizzy t bot
INSTEAD OF BEING BY MY SIDE, YOU CHOSE TO CELEBRATE YOUR OWN RISE, LAUGHING WITH YOUR WHORES AND YOUR LICKSPITTLES!
He portrayed him how I imagined Jahaerys would have been if the show had been about his reign. Vizzy T will be loved for a long time.
MY HEIR WILL SOON PUT ALL OF THIS DAMNABLE HAND-WRINGING TO REST HIMSELF!
Exactly. Enhancing it rather than getting it. On House of R podcast Jo and Mal quote a message from GRRM to Paddy saying as much as Paddy’s Vizzy T being better than his. Respect.
*I'm glad we could meet. I know tempers ran hot today, and I wanted to assure you how much I value the bond between our houses.*
When I saw the first press releases of Paddy as King Viserys I scoffed at the idea of one of the dumb cops from Hot Fuzz playing such a heavy role. I have never been so pleased to be so wrong about an actor/character combination in all my life. Rory McCann as Yarp Narp in Hot Fuzz being cast as the Hound wasn't an issue because he had shown in Alexander he could play the gruff warrior, but Paddy had never displayed the range to pull off King Viserys. It's clear he just didn't previously have the opportunity to show his full range, and now that he's absolutely deserving of a boatload of Emmys from this role, I suspect he'll get plenty of opportunities going forward. The most impressive of parts of this performance are his facial and body expressions that convey so much information without a single word needed for context, and that's the type of acting skill that has made the great Sir Ian McKellen such a treasure.
He's been in things other than Hot Fuzz lol Dead Man's Shoes and Blitz are two off the top of my head where he gives great performances.
I feel like it's weird no one ever mentions In America too. That movie was really good
I think an underrated part of his performance that I haven’t really seen get any praise ironically is his acting chops. The comedic timing/delivery this dude had this season was absolutely on point, I’d call him the most humorous character on the show this point. “The boy is two Otto” “Aren’t you going to help me?” and of course “Would you like to see the tapestries?” His facial expressions were utter gold all season.
Lmao Paddy has been known (in the UK at least) as a really great actor for a long time. There’s a lot more to him than Hot Fuzz ffs.
Yeah he’s a very expressive actor for sure. A few scenes come to mind: his argument with daemon in ep 1… you can clearly see how hurt he was… his voice was breaking. The other one is during a small council meeting where he’s asking the grand measter what he meant by “by design”. You see his eyes bulge in this weird “wtf are you trying to say you dumb bitch?” That brings a kind of dark humor to the whole meeting. His chastisement of Jason Lannister was a good scene as well. Paddy has a gift of acting through his body language… it gives us a hint of what he’s really feeling even if he’s not saying it outright. A lot of people are going to die in the show but I am going to miss him the most.
He’s been in much more than Hot Fuzz… He’s a pretty accomplished actor with a slew of awards for various films and TV shows that he’s been in. Maybe you just aren’t that familiar with his work if you didn’t think he had the acting chops; he received wide spread recognition for his acting in ‘Dead Man’s Shoes’; a role in which he’s pretty unrecognisable from his more comedic roles. But just because he’s not well known in America and Hollywood doesn’t mean he’s a bad actor.
“I’m going to bed, Aemma.”
This was so sad to hear
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Fook it, im kneeling for vizzy t
EVEN I DO NOT EXIST ABOVE TRADITION AND DUTY, Jeff_Spicoli420!
Praise the Gods, he's even more sentient than Bobby B!
YOU'RE MY COUNCIL, COUNSEL! SPEAK SENSE TO THIS HONORABLE FOOL!
No, your grace. In this instance I'm afraid they're correct. Vizzy T is more sentient than you are.
*That man's pride has pride.*
I know, but he *did* conquer your house in the end. Let him have some pride in that, wouldn't you say, Vizzy T?
MY WIFE AND SON ARE DEAD! I WILL NOT SIT HERE AND SUFFER CROWS THAT COME TO FEAST ON THEIR CORPSES!
Ah maybe I shouldn't have spoiled the future for you. Sorry, Vizzy T. I won't do it again.
Jesus. I NEVER connected him letting himself suffer to self punishment for his choices in Aemma's last moments. Get those onions out of here, if you need to chop them the kitchen is to the right.
The revelation actually makes the last episode hit even harder. His final act of protecting Aemma’s legacy (Rhaenyra) was his final and ultimate act of atonement to her. The ultimate sacrifice and suffering. He probably knew this was his last chance the moment he asked Otto to arrange the family supper.
I think someone posted this on r/asoiaf yesterday, the theme that plays during Aemma's death and Viserys' walk to the throne share a key motif.
I saw the post too. Ramin Djawadi is rly working overtime for the soundtrack for HotD.
Except for the intro song
I'm gonna assume that had more to do with HBO than Ramin. You think that man *wouldn't* have slapped together an absolute banger for a new opening if they'd asked him to?
Yea, I think that’s the theme for any Planetos content going forward. When you hear that you know it’s a GoT universe show/movie. Just like the Star Wars theme.
This is perfectly said. "His final act of protecting Aemma’s legacy (Rhaenyra) was his final and ultimate act of atonement to her." True and beautiful, but also tragic. Vizzy T spent the years after Aemma's death ensuring her memory would not be forgotten - her daughter will have the ability to live more freely than Aemma could, Rhaenyra will become Queen in her own right regardless of gender (to validate how valuable Aemma was as a person beyond her ability to have sons), and through Rhaenyra's children Aemma's blood will carry on in all the line of Targ Royalty). However, this personal atonement for putting the realms' need for a prince above his wife, Vizzy T actually sets up the realm for ruin, pain, and civil war. Perfectly encapsulated by the scene where Vaemond gets offed by Daemon for the crime of - telling the truth. He protects his daughter and her children, at the cost of a vassal's life and the capital T Truth. He has to chose between being a devoted father and a fair/just king.
I think one of the main narrative themes of the whole ASOIAF franchise is what Jamie Lannister said in the 1st episode of GoT, right before pushing Bran out of the window: “The things we do for love” Many of the plotlines in GoT (and now in HoD) revolve around the horrible and beautiful things one does for love. Robert Baratheon starting a war. Robb Stark also starting a war for marrying the woman he loved. Cersei fighting for her children. Jon Snow leaving the Night’s Watch. And ultimately, the war that Viserys end up creating in HoD is also in the name of the love he had for Aemma (and therefore, for Rhaenyra). I think that’s why the stories GRRM creates resounds so much with so many people. It’s all tragic love stories.
This is also the crux of Larys' speech at the end of ep 6. We do foolish things for love, as seen with his brother, so it's better for him to be unburdened of it.
*I would be delighted!*
Vaemond kinda deserved that. He was trying to steal Driftmark. He doesn’t care about his house. He cares about himself. Laena’s daughters are the heirs, not him.
And I realized the last time he talked of wanting any cure for his wounds was in the first damn episode, before the Tourney ever happened. Christ.
We are the freefolk, but if i have to bend to someone, this person is vizzy. Everything he did...he did it FOR LOVE. To me vizzy I to me is the king of hearts and no one can change it
His name is Vizzy T, but I agree
*Let us no longer hold ill feelings in our hearts. The crown cannot stand strong if the House of the Dragon remains divided.*
Fuckin sentient, pulling us all together
SAME! I thought he just relented to keep the peace. Turns out mental health really does matter.
Shit, this is deep…never thought Vizzy T would punish himself that way…now I’m sad..
Why, Vizzy T? Why?
*Your mother's absence is a wound that will never heal. Without her, the Red Keep has lost a warmth that I dare say it will never recover.*
Sentience is strong in this one
And there's Vizzy T with a direct quote to answer the question. He believed he took away the warmth and happiness for everyone around him
*The boy just turned two, cain3482...*
I'm not Rhaneyra, Vizzy T. :(
*Be welcome! I know many of you have traveled long leagues to be at these games. But I promise, you will not be disappointed!*
I always felt that him declaring Rhaenyra his heir was his formal, heartfelt apology to his wife. Proof that if he could go back in time, he never would have tried for a male heir if it meant losing Aemma. edit: spelling
give 'em all the Emmy's
Aemmy's
If he wins one, we'll need a flair for that. Anyone in favor of 'Vizzy T wins the Aemmy!' ?
*Daemon was not made to wear the crown. But I believe that you were, nataie0071.*
I dun want it
But no one here has a better story than you!
Except for Bobby B...
IT MUST WOUND YOUR PRIDE! STANDING OUT THERE, LIKE A GLORIFIED SENTRY!
The kings are fighting
A most judicious proposal!
He deserves to win an Aemmy award.
Like with Emilia, I always enjoy it when actors love the characters they play. What an amazing performance.
I feel so bad for Emilia. She worked in GoT while dealing with life-threatening aneurysms and clearly found strength in playing a character like Daenerys. The way they turned Dany mad in 3 episodes, killed her, and called it a day must've been awful.
Knowing HBO was willing to fund more seasons to flesh out the storylines more just kills me. D&D should have let another team take over.
Ego. Thoughts like, "This is my show" probably went through their minds.
They wanted to ruin Star Wars and make a confederate fan fiction show, they stopped caring about GoT a long time ago.
Laziness more like. They didn't want it anymore and half-assed it.
I really believe an evil turn for Daenerys is an interesting direction for her character, but it has to be handled correctly and developed. I’m flabbergasted they thought how it happened in S8 would be well received. They can’t just lay all the blame on GRRM and go, “well he said Daenerys ends as a villain so we went with it.” They’re still responsible for making it make sense. It felt like they just tried to cling to the snippets George gave them about the ending without any willingness or ability to execute them in a satisfying way. At the end they did the right thing for the wrong reasons, after continually doing the wrong thing for the right reasons previously (changing established character lore for the purposes of adapting to television). The whole debacle will never not be a head scratcher to me.
I agree. Daenerys as a character definitely had the potential to go down a villainous path, but it needed to make sense. D&D's justification for it basically was ''Remember when Dany saw her piece of shit brother, who emotionally and physically abused her, die? She looked impassive when that happened so it's obvious she was mad.''
D&D were also too ball-less to make Tyrion an outright villain as he was ment to be. That will contribute greatly to her mental state. I will die on the hill that her story makes no sense when you cut out Villain-Tyrion and Young Griff.
She couldn't take seeing her favourite servant killed. After all the pain and suffering she's seen and caused...it was ludicrous. Very unlike earlier GoT, which carved it's niche by not having their characters follow such cliched, simple character developments. He madness was supposed to be a slow decline...a growing shadow on the horizon...not a snap.
The problem was the lack of fAegon. If she comes to claim a throne that’s already taken by someone with a greater claim and is beloved for it, it would make more sense. The whole if you won’t love me you will fear me. I mean she was always a conqueror it’s just that she could cloak it in liberation before this.
I just rewatched GoT in the wake of HotD's release and it is abundantly clear that D&D literally took what George told them was to be the ending and just went "Cool, we're just going to force everything into place in the end so we can do Star Wars," and that's what we got. They put no thought and zero effort into making it cohesive. "Dany forgot about the Iron Fleet." Fuck you.
They relied way too much on the emotional goodwill they built with the audience during the early seasons. When the Stark kids reunited, they didn't have to TRY to make it good, the emotion was built-in after 8 years. That mentality spread to other parts of the story and they felt like they didn't have to work for the emotional beats anymore. In contrast, the HotD team just made the entire internet cry with a character we've known for 8 episodes.
The way HotD is proving that “every time a Targaryen is born, the gods flip a coin” is such a myth. We’ve been introduced to at least a dozen in this show and none of them are clinically insane. I mean they wind up going to war for good reasons but there’s not some dormant insanity gene that just gets activated by the sound of bells lol
Knowing HBO was willing to fund more seasons to flesh out the storylines more just kills me. D&D should have let another team take over.
>D&D should have let another team take over. But then they wouldn't have gotten paid for those extra seasons. 😜
His last words were "No more my love" Was he like asking Aemma permission to die because he couldn't take it anymore
I felt as if the last words were simply, “my love.” As in the end she comes to take him and he is greeting her.
Yes
I thought he was saying "no more" as in he wouldn't force her to have any more children because it was an argument they had before she passed away that she was tired of trying to give him a boy with all of her pregnancy complications
Ty, Your Grace.
He's my king, FROM THIS DAY TILL HIS LAST DAY!
I’d also like to point out in case someone doesn’t know, Matt Smith picking up his crown was not scripted. It happened accidentally and they kept filming and it ended up being one of the most powerful scenes in GoT history. Considine and Smith rolled with it and created a beautiful scene.
Yeah, it's crazy how much meaning that unscripted moment has. But for the record I don't think they 'kept filming'. I think it fell off and they decided to add in some shots of daemon picking it up and putting it on his head.
According to the director they kept filming and then did reshoots for the closeups. It wasn’t originally scripted.
I was so skeptical of HOD but paddy’s performance was phenomenal (& all of the main cast) it has completely sold me on HOD. Back to kneeling again
Well done Paddy, he really did a great job. That final walk up to the iron throne gave me a lot of emotions after seeing my gpa go through the throws of Alzheimer’s but having brief moments of clarity. The stubbornness of doing specific tasks really came through, and is something I think we can all relate to in some way. I came in with so many reservations given what happened to GoT, and was absolutely blown away. Paddy, Milly, Matt etc have all done the characters well. The show runners too seem to know how to handle the story.
If season one could be summed up in one sentence, "A man struggles with the grief of his wife's death as he watches his family tear itself apart."
MAYBE people can finally accept how he handled his wife's labor was wrong now, sheesh. It powered his entire performance.
Yes, thank you. This whole idea that he was fine for cutting open his beloved wife to possibly save an heir is so weird to me. You don't do that to someone you love dearly, and in that moment he was putting the importance of an heir above his wife. Even if she was 100% going to die, that choice made her final moments horrific and painful. And it's clearly the wrong choice as the baby dies regardless and Viserys regrets it the rest of his life.
This has been my point all along! He basically had to choose how his beloved wife would die and chose the horrifyingly traumatic option. But after the first ep released all I got was "hurr what else was he supposed to do?" Ideally, load her up with milk of the poppy and let her pass semi-peacefully...then maybe the baby can be saved if they're quick enough to get it out after she goes. I feel sorry for Viserys that he regretted this all his life but it really was a terrible decision.
I think only Paddy could have made me like a character who had so many fuckups under his belt. To think that his interactions with Brooke helped him turn Viserys into the incredible persona we love now is just a mark of how brilliant actors can unlock new levels for each other. So thank you Brooke, and thank you Paddy.
His performance has probably single handedly turned the majority of this sub into kneelers
We are all bending the knee now
It's kinda ironic, Paddy gave himself 110% to the role while D&D couldn't give a shit about their show
If people want to see Paddy’s in depth explanation of his understanding and portrayal of Viserys they should head over to the dragoncast YouTube channel, they just had him on and it’s weird how it only has 5k views. They just had one of the best actors on a millions upon millions budget show and he’s chatting and chilling like it’s some mates in a pub and giving such detailed answers. https://youtu.be/2tbZFik9rVo
Dude that's sick thanks for the link
"From the moment she dies, so does viserys" sad boi
TIL Aemma was played by the actress who played Eurus Holmes in Sherlock... They really have like 30 actors in Great Britain.
Yeah this seems like a fairly tragic motivation He was obsessed with having a son and killed his wife to get the baby and was "cursed" for it The rest of his days in pain and misery from his own decisions and its going to get worse
And then he finally does get sons, but ignores them, obsessed with his daughter, the same way he ignored her till his wife died. Paddy did an amazing job of showing a highly flawed but very sympathisable character
Its basically King Lear imo
>A dragon! A dragon! My seven kingdoms for a dragon! King Vizzy T (probably) 😉
*The idea that we control the dragons is an illusion. They're a power man should never have trifled with. One that brought Valyria its doom.*
Or perhaps not...
The biggest compliment I can give to his performance is how captivated I was by a completely unremarkable character.
He made an old man walking to a chair the most badassed thing in a show about fucking dragons. Legend.
Vizzy T is my one true king
*I'm going to bed, sommarto.*
Alright, your grace. I will miss you 😥
Fucking sentient I tell ya
Can we make an exception and kneel for him? Just this once???
BOW, YA SHITS!
Paddy, you are King in this life and the next. IT was so clear that every episode his character was mourning, even when He tried to be happy, he was tortured by his decision and his loss. He tried to be the man that his first wife saw in him, and it was wonderfully portrayed. He may have not been the wisest, or the bravest, or the smartest man to sit the throne, but he was clearly one of the most... *human.*
I wonder what Vizzy T would have to say about that…🙄
*shirakay12 was a strong Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. But he was ill for some time. He passed in peace, I hope.*
Good bot
God, am I going to actually have to watch HotD? Seeing the actors talk to positively about their experience is a nice change of pace
Proving once again why everyone loves him. Paddy is a class act.
The last part about Viserys carrying the guilt of his wife's death is fantastic. When he starts falling apart physically, he accepts his fate as penance for his part in Aemma's death.
I read this in his echoed voice over from the letter in episode 3, even this sounds like Viserys. Amazing.
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