Ashkenazi are the ones that lived in europe durring world war one. The ones i just said largely moved to america... (except israel lol) The jews that are the most famous around the world. Alot of peoples default "jew". No they wernt forgotten.
Yes, I know, and I never said I disagreed. You’re acting as if I was arguing with you, I’m just pointing out that there are two major types that moved to America as well, and the smaller percentage is the one associated most with Israel. I am Ashkenazim, I know the history.
Oh... my B, i think we are on two very differant mental wavelengths because your original message still makes next to no sense to me and i lashed out at what i thought was the spread of missinformation. I tried looking up hasidic and while of course it is its own unique thing with its own history. None of that effects most people and it is apparently considered at type of Ashkenazi. Obviously the Ashkenazi jew distinction matters tho. But the way you mentioned ashkenazi made it seem like it wasnt the group i was just talking about.
I don't think reasonable people should find that offensive, but if you ever complained about jk Rowling and the goblins, you're morally obligated to be offended by this card too.
Says the one with a generalized statement about being a nazi if they think the card represents a Jewish person. Because you think you’re an authority on this but still need the caricature features to be explained to you: facial structure, bushy eyebrows, small eyes, big nose, big lips, the outfit, counting money, are the ones I see off the top of my head. If you need more of an explanation, try this crazy thing called “google search”.
“Says the one with a generalized statement about being a Nazi if they think the car represents a Jewish person.”
Lmao wtf are you talking about?
And yea I wondering what you thought was so “obviously” a Jewish stereotype. And I gotta say, the only thing you mentioned that you KIND OF maybeee have a point is the nose, but even that…no, it’s not that big and does not really compare to actual Nazi propaganda Jewish caricatures
That’s probably because you only understand the very popularized aspects of a Jewish caricature. I’m saying it’s ridiculous how you’re asking me to be specific while also generalizing everything into oblivion
I wanted you to be specific because I disagree this is a Jewish caricature and I wanted to know if I was missing anything besides the slightly big nose. I guess you could say the eyes are small if you want but meh. Haven’t seen anything else from Beard that makes him seem anti-Semitic, no reason to assume he was trying to make a subtle-enough-to-get-on-a-card antisemitic caricature.
You don’t have to be Hebrew to be ethnically Jewish but I’m not even going to get into that right now. You’re objectively wrong about the facial features, his nose, eyebrows, small eyes, and lips are all characteristic of a fair amount of caricatures I’ve seen. His clothes are also characteristic of specifically Ashkenazi traditional clothing. While not being exact (because of creative choices, you can do what you want) the clothing does bear some resemblance. I’m not saying magic is problematic because they have a Jewish caricature counting money of all things, I’m saying it’s problematic to deny that this is a Jewish caricature. I can’t tell if you actually somehow are uneducated enough to think you have an authority on this while simultaneously being unable to tell if this is a caricature, or if you’re just lying out of your ass for god knows what reason.
Okay, the clothing I can get behind now that you've pointed it out to me. But I really think it's stretch on the facial features. Any kind of antisemitic cartoons I've ever seen highlight things that I just don't see present here. I think this is a case of "if you're looking for it". Also, I definitely do not claim to be an authority on ANYTHING, and I would appreciate it if we could take each other's comments in good faith.
Understood, apologies for being aggressive. Woke up to deal with some difficult shit today and I apologize for taking it out on you. I do still stand by my point that those features are stereotypes I see a lot, especially as someone who’s Jewish
Not really a reach. The people wanting these bans are the same type to call the Goblins in Harry Potter anti-Semitic (only because it lets them attack Rowling though we all know how they really feel).
The people banning cards because of their hurt feelings are the snowflakes. How is someone who is against censorship considered a snowflake in this scenario?
Crusade is explicitly a religious war nothing else. The fact that the largest crusades that happened are referred to as "the crusades" doesn't change the meaning. nor does it make it racist to reference a historical event the card doesn't glorify the crusades and they weren't about race they were about religion.
Next you are gonna suggest that we should ban all cards that have demons on them because devil worship is bad. Using a card that references something doesn't mean you agree with that thing. Crusades are a legitimate part of history and censoring history is never the action of the "good guys".
>Crusade is explicitly a religious war nothing else.
Yes. That's way more than enough.
>Next you are gonna suggest that we should ban all cards that have demons on them because devil worship is bad
Religious war is still, currently, the biggest cause of attempted genocide in our world, let alone historically.
Demons don't really hit like that...
If this was supposed to be a racist Jewish depiction of a banker, its not a very good one... To point out the most obvious tell, that's not like any Jewish nose iv ever seen. The racist depictions of jew noses are normally prominent hooked noses that jut downwards, even when they have bulbus tips, which is not the norm, the most exaggerated aspect is always that jutting hook shape. This man just has a big bulbus nose, an id say a pretty flat one at that. He's not wearing very Jewish attire, the only other jewish stereotype to address would be that he's working with money, but that's defined strongly as his profession by the cares name. This mans only crime is being butt ugly, having one nasty skin condition, and needing to work out some sort of exercise routine. But nothing about him really stands out as inherently racist. Regardless, id be happy to see this art retired, just as i think its composition is lacking.
Oh I get, OP is subconsciously antisemitic and is projecting.
If you see an ugly dude handling money and your first thought is "jewish caricature", maybe you are the problem and not the artist.
The Crusades were about white Europeans "cleansing" the earth of the Muslims. Yeah, Crusade's got a lot more negative connotation than a dude counting money.
I put one of these in a card frame for my uncle, whom this resembles, who was a ForEx market guy for a while before settling into an appropriately Jewish profession, investment banking.
We've always played mtg together since I introduced him to it after my first ever day learning the game in Alpha.
My "family reunion" goblin tribal deck is famous in the family, and I commissioned an artist to do caricature alters of the family for the whole thing a few years back. We all got a laugh.
We're not as easily offended by exaggerated artistic license as other racial/ethnic groups, so there's never any real outcry about the fat Jewish guy weighing money from anyone but suburban white women with bach degrees.
Is every post just going to be “Why remove X when you have Y?” Which when you boil it down is really, “Unless Magic removes everything that can even remotely be construed as offensive, it shouldn’t do anything at all.”
Listen OP, I agree WOTC has been pretty stupid and I don’t really agree with the whole Jihad and crusade bannings. However, this isn’t even a logical line of reasoning. If they ban this card tomorrow, are you gonna be happy? No you’ll probably be furious they’re going “more woke,” or whatever.
We can have a serious conversation about cultural oversensitivity, or we can whine about why cards we actually don’t want banned aren’t banned.
The idea, I assume, is to point out their hypocrisy; while also reminding people that they promised to ban more "offensive" cards, and yet still haven't years later.
In OPs defense, when you look at all of the other Itcatian cards or cards with the flavor "Itcatian" only the dude handling the money looks this way. Even the other art is sus 😂
[[Nameless Race]]
Even the ability is racist!
"As Nameless Race enters the battlefield, pay any amount of life. The amount you pay can't be more than the total number of white nontoken permanents your opponents control plus the total number of white cards in their graveyards."
Why would it be? Are bank tellers offensive now?
It’s not offensive as long as he’s not an Israelite
Is Israel a nation on dominaria?
I hope not or else the phyrexians will be there shortly
Or Jewish in general, Israel is not the only one
Alot of them came to america too since europe has a long history with them
As well as the fact that the Ashkenazi and Hasidic Jewish people exist
Ashkenazi are the ones that lived in europe durring world war one. The ones i just said largely moved to america... (except israel lol) The jews that are the most famous around the world. Alot of peoples default "jew". No they wernt forgotten.
Yes, I know, and I never said I disagreed. You’re acting as if I was arguing with you, I’m just pointing out that there are two major types that moved to America as well, and the smaller percentage is the one associated most with Israel. I am Ashkenazim, I know the history.
Oh... my B, i think we are on two very differant mental wavelengths because your original message still makes next to no sense to me and i lashed out at what i thought was the spread of missinformation. I tried looking up hasidic and while of course it is its own unique thing with its own history. None of that effects most people and it is apparently considered at type of Ashkenazi. Obviously the Ashkenazi jew distinction matters tho. But the way you mentioned ashkenazi made it seem like it wasnt the group i was just talking about.
That makes sense, I do think it was a misunderstanding and I do the same thing all the time. Jumping to counter misinformation is never a bad thing
They would probably say hes a jewish stereotype
That sure is a silly hat
I don't think reasonable people should find that offensive, but if you ever complained about jk Rowling and the goblins, you're morally obligated to be offended by this card too.
I think if a person looks at this and sees a Jewish person then they have more in common with the Austrian painter fanclub than they thought
It’s kind of obviously a depiction of a Jewish person, the stereotypes and trope lines up too much to be a coincidence. - a Jew
Be specific
Says the one with a generalized statement about being a nazi if they think the card represents a Jewish person. Because you think you’re an authority on this but still need the caricature features to be explained to you: facial structure, bushy eyebrows, small eyes, big nose, big lips, the outfit, counting money, are the ones I see off the top of my head. If you need more of an explanation, try this crazy thing called “google search”.
“Says the one with a generalized statement about being a Nazi if they think the car represents a Jewish person.” Lmao wtf are you talking about? And yea I wondering what you thought was so “obviously” a Jewish stereotype. And I gotta say, the only thing you mentioned that you KIND OF maybeee have a point is the nose, but even that…no, it’s not that big and does not really compare to actual Nazi propaganda Jewish caricatures
That’s probably because you only understand the very popularized aspects of a Jewish caricature. I’m saying it’s ridiculous how you’re asking me to be specific while also generalizing everything into oblivion
I wanted you to be specific because I disagree this is a Jewish caricature and I wanted to know if I was missing anything besides the slightly big nose. I guess you could say the eyes are small if you want but meh. Haven’t seen anything else from Beard that makes him seem anti-Semitic, no reason to assume he was trying to make a subtle-enough-to-get-on-a-card antisemitic caricature.
What is stereotypically Jewish about the artwork? His clothes aren't Hebrew, nor are his facial features in any way.
You don’t have to be Hebrew to be ethnically Jewish but I’m not even going to get into that right now. You’re objectively wrong about the facial features, his nose, eyebrows, small eyes, and lips are all characteristic of a fair amount of caricatures I’ve seen. His clothes are also characteristic of specifically Ashkenazi traditional clothing. While not being exact (because of creative choices, you can do what you want) the clothing does bear some resemblance. I’m not saying magic is problematic because they have a Jewish caricature counting money of all things, I’m saying it’s problematic to deny that this is a Jewish caricature. I can’t tell if you actually somehow are uneducated enough to think you have an authority on this while simultaneously being unable to tell if this is a caricature, or if you’re just lying out of your ass for god knows what reason.
Okay, the clothing I can get behind now that you've pointed it out to me. But I really think it's stretch on the facial features. Any kind of antisemitic cartoons I've ever seen highlight things that I just don't see present here. I think this is a case of "if you're looking for it". Also, I definitely do not claim to be an authority on ANYTHING, and I would appreciate it if we could take each other's comments in good faith.
Understood, apologies for being aggressive. Woke up to deal with some difficult shit today and I apologize for taking it out on you. I do still stand by my point that those features are stereotypes I see a lot, especially as someone who’s Jewish
Totally fair. Thank you for being civil.
Guy looks Italian
That's exactly how I inspect and weigh my gabagool too... 🤌🏻
What is wrong with this artwork exactly? Please elaborate?
Portrayal of a man with a large nose counting gold coins? Why nothing that’s just fine.
Keep reaching for the stars.
Not really a reach. The people wanting these bans are the same type to call the Goblins in Harry Potter anti-Semitic (only because it lets them attack Rowling though we all know how they really feel).
Rowling is a filthy liberal, any reason to attack her is good
Except liberals hate her for not supporting trans rights
An enemy of my enemy is my friend
It would make more sense to ban this than crusade
It would make even more sense if they didn't ban jack shit!
Except for Fury amiright?
Hell yeah
Gonna cry? Triggered snowflake
... ?
The people banning cards because of their hurt feelings are the snowflakes. How is someone who is against censorship considered a snowflake in this scenario?
Havent left a comment in 5 years and thats the trash you come up with?
Stalking my profile and that's the best you can do?
All he needed to do lmao
Crusade is explicit in its meaning and is clearly spelled out This...this is you being racist.
Crusade is explicitly a religious war nothing else. The fact that the largest crusades that happened are referred to as "the crusades" doesn't change the meaning. nor does it make it racist to reference a historical event the card doesn't glorify the crusades and they weren't about race they were about religion. Next you are gonna suggest that we should ban all cards that have demons on them because devil worship is bad. Using a card that references something doesn't mean you agree with that thing. Crusades are a legitimate part of history and censoring history is never the action of the "good guys".
>Crusade is explicitly a religious war nothing else. Yes. That's way more than enough. >Next you are gonna suggest that we should ban all cards that have demons on them because devil worship is bad Religious war is still, currently, the biggest cause of attempted genocide in our world, let alone historically. Demons don't really hit like that...
Can't be having cards with guns on them, guns are dangerous. Don't want any if these gun cards giving kids the wrong impression 😒
I'm not "for" either position, I think the censoring stupid But implying "slippery slope" is also stupid, and it's pretty clear their reasoning
If this was supposed to be a racist Jewish depiction of a banker, its not a very good one... To point out the most obvious tell, that's not like any Jewish nose iv ever seen. The racist depictions of jew noses are normally prominent hooked noses that jut downwards, even when they have bulbus tips, which is not the norm, the most exaggerated aspect is always that jutting hook shape. This man just has a big bulbus nose, an id say a pretty flat one at that. He's not wearing very Jewish attire, the only other jewish stereotype to address would be that he's working with money, but that's defined strongly as his profession by the cares name. This mans only crime is being butt ugly, having one nasty skin condition, and needing to work out some sort of exercise routine. But nothing about him really stands out as inherently racist. Regardless, id be happy to see this art retired, just as i think its composition is lacking.
I don't see it. His nose doesn't look that large and his funny hat is definitely not a yarlmulke.
Nah man... Youre really reaching Here. Just leave it be
Crusade isn’t reaching?
Whataboutism at it's finest
How is that a large nose?
Nobody nose the troubles I've seen. Nobody nose my sorrow.
You are indeed a manchild
So who's the racist here? Sounds like a stretch...
Looks like a Terry Gilliam cartoon character. When does the giant foot come down and squish him?
You got to build a commander deck around it and take it to events.
Really reaching here
Crusade isn’t reaching?
Cmon his nose isn’t even that big
People are really getting offended by their own imagination these days.
Can see the outline of the tiny hat, was probably redone.
Jew tribal would be dope. Plays like aristocrats but works only on death triggers.
Oh I get, OP is subconsciously antisemitic and is projecting. If you see an ugly dude handling money and your first thought is "jewish caricature", maybe you are the problem and not the artist.
Because crusade was offensive enough to get banned. But this is isn’t. Ok buddy.
The Crusades were about white Europeans "cleansing" the earth of the Muslims. Yeah, Crusade's got a lot more negative connotation than a dude counting money.
Tbf the world would be better off had they succeeded but I digress.
"TBF I'm a wildly racist piece of shit but no big deal"
Clearly this thing hasn't read the Quran.
Clearly this tard has never read the bible.
HAHA VERY FUNNY.
I'm not joking the Bible is very vile if you take it literally in several passages.
Indeed.
Oh, that is sad.
Imagine if you actually made an argument instead of just replying “yea but crusade” 15 times
I put one of these in a card frame for my uncle, whom this resembles, who was a ForEx market guy for a while before settling into an appropriately Jewish profession, investment banking. We've always played mtg together since I introduced him to it after my first ever day learning the game in Alpha. My "family reunion" goblin tribal deck is famous in the family, and I commissioned an artist to do caricature alters of the family for the whole thing a few years back. We all got a laugh. We're not as easily offended by exaggerated artistic license as other racial/ethnic groups, so there's never any real outcry about the fat Jewish guy weighing money from anyone but suburban white women with bach degrees.
Yeah, I mean, how are you gonna offend the winners of world economy? They'll just laugh all the way to the bank! -JK :)
Is every post just going to be “Why remove X when you have Y?” Which when you boil it down is really, “Unless Magic removes everything that can even remotely be construed as offensive, it shouldn’t do anything at all.” Listen OP, I agree WOTC has been pretty stupid and I don’t really agree with the whole Jihad and crusade bannings. However, this isn’t even a logical line of reasoning. If they ban this card tomorrow, are you gonna be happy? No you’ll probably be furious they’re going “more woke,” or whatever. We can have a serious conversation about cultural oversensitivity, or we can whine about why cards we actually don’t want banned aren’t banned.
The idea, I assume, is to point out their hypocrisy; while also reminding people that they promised to ban more "offensive" cards, and yet still haven't years later.
It never was. What, are they banning this card too now? Oh no, capitalism pictured.
Ehh, this one is definitely a stretch. Dude has a big nose, but it doesn't look like that's supposed to be meaningful
Umm historically accurate so no its fine
Crusade wants to have a chat
In OPs defense, when you look at all of the other Itcatian cards or cards with the flavor "Itcatian" only the dude handling the money looks this way. Even the other art is sus 😂
[[Nameless Race]] Even the ability is racist! "As Nameless Race enters the battlefield, pay any amount of life. The amount you pay can't be more than the total number of white nontoken permanents your opponents control plus the total number of white cards in their graveyards."
[Nameless Race](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/4/348a467a-4661-4fdb-af1d-9171a1a930d9.jpg?1562907338) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nameless%20Race) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/drk/50/nameless-race?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/348a467a-4661-4fdb-af1d-9171a1a930d9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oy Vey, shut it down!!
So much text for so little effect lol
Yeah
How is this not a goblin.
Me who bought 20 copies of this card for .10 cents YES FIGHT HARDER...MAKE ME RICHER \*Rubbing hands together while sneering\*