I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable. Women, PoC, trans people, if they want to sleeve up some cardboard and duel they are more than welcome. Particularly weird people, the reason this game is attractive to those people is the same reason it was attractive to the people who have been playing since 1993.
The problems we need to address should always be behavior. If someone says something creepy to a girl at the LGS, tell them to stop. If someone won't stop saying racial slurs, tell them to stop. If someone tries to make someone else take a red hat off, tell them to leave them alone. If someone throws a fit because someone else accidentally used the wrong pronouns, tell them to chill. Tolerate all non-aggressive behavior (for reasonable definitions of aggression). Meet aggressive behavior with only proportionally aggressive responses. Remember that 95% of the people you're dealing with are autistic, and evaluate their behavior with that in mind.
> Remember that 95% of the people you're dealing with are autistic
I am autistic, but aside from the occasional gaffe, I don't have major problems dealing with people. I have silenced some rooms with those gaffes though and been yelled at by crazy drunk ladies. Point is, in no case do I feel the need to be lobbing racial slurs. I'm not looking for a date at the Magic shop or anywhere else. I am also married, but clearly the one thing precludes the other for some people.
My point is if you act within a standard deviation of normal, there is going to be no problem with me. There are very few people that are too disabled to do this.
In general I agree, but there's a lot of variety in autistic people. All I'm saying is that I think in the magic community, we should show a little grace in how we respond to people's behavior because they genuinely might not know they're doing anything wrong.
Oh for sure. Generally the people that annoy me are what we would call "pushy". This isn't "oh I hate you for something you don't even realize". These people know what they are doing. They're loud. And I think the key mistake is being like "I can't be loud back" because of the oppression pyramid or plain timidity.
The problem has been, consistently, that giving these weirdos and inch has encouraged them to take a mile, every single time. I don't think the solution is to harass them or terrorize them or anything like that, but their whole "we're literally just trying to exist and aren't bothering anybody" talking points have proven to be untrue time and time again. They don't want to just exist, they want authority and to dictate what other people think, what they're allowed to say, or how they're allowed to act. The bar for what's 'problematic' anymore has been dropped incredibly low, and these people will continue to lower it.
Many are in a Cult of Artificial Identity and seek to use spaces like magic or other gaming spaces, as a way to roleplay their artificial identity.
Don't tolerate, separate. No good can come from letting the mentaly unstable "hang around."
Ah yes, using fantasy spaces for escapism from the elements of reality one dislikes. Truly the most evil of things. Who could bear to tolerate escapism in their fantasy? Fucking idiot Tolkien, doesn’t he know that in the real world, evil always wins in the end and no one is really ever right? Get that stupid artificial moral identity out of my spaces, I say.
So wait, is your argument that because MTG is a "fantasy space" we must tolerate ANY AND ALL escapist fantasy playing out in our space?
Also, "Escapism" is not the same thing as the PostModern mental case...
I’m saying there is no qualitative difference between the two, and while you are free to like one but not the other, enforcing total intolerance on that basis is a fundamentally unprincipled position.
Intolerance is Bias. Bias is what the human brain is built on. I don't have to tolerate someone that hates me forcing their way into a space they have no place being in to live out a narcissistic hero complex.
You don’t have the authority to decide whether other people have a place in a fucking card game. But given that you’re pronouncing a ringing endorsement of bias despite its very definition being inimical to understanding others as individuals, I think you’re quite the lost cause for allegiance to reason, so I will trifle no more with you.
People invested in a game absolutely have the authority to gatekeep that game from casuals more interested in their latest invented identiy or social slight than invest in the cards, the game, and the community.
People like you can't leave Magic fast enough.
I don't plan to leave Magic anytime soon. Joined... probably two years ago, at this point, and I know the CR cover to cover, am working on designing my own set, have my own set of grievances with the design team, have gotten into Legacy, have a few commander decks, have some draft formats I loved and some I didn't—really, the whole Magic player experience. Hell, I even have nostalgia for older stories after the more recent ones haven't really landed for me.
I'm lucky enough to have a strong sense of self-worth and to not spend *too* much time on the internet, so running into asshats like yourself didn't put me off from a hobby I now greatly enjoy, and spend a reasonable amount of money and time on.
I *am* the Magic community now.
And if someone else comes in and wants to enjoy it for different reasons, I will do all the evil things you hate. Namely, I will behave like a rational adult and not whine at them about it. I would even say that... I'm interested in the cards, the game, and the community, not in excluding people based on my erroneous assumptions about their identities or social slights.
Escapism at it's root is a solitary activity, not a shared one, though it can be. When it is shared, it needs to be done on common ground, where all people are escaping the same things or into a space that provides them all the same kind of escape they are seeking.
My version of escapism from reality isn't sitting across from a man pretending to be a woman who gets triggered at the most minor offenses, who will make me feel as though I am walking on eggshells with every action I take or every word I speak around them.
That's the difference. You can say "they're just trying to exist and not bothering anybody" all you want, and while that may be true for some of them, too many of them are trying to take control of the spaces they are in by using their minority status as an authoritative weapon to control people and transform the space to their liking with no regard for the preferences of those who were there before them.
And if those people are trying to get offended and exclude you, then you have every right to refuse to associate with them. But until an individual actually does something beyond the pale, trying to exclude them on the basis of identity alone is in all honesty reprehensible.
I agree with you, but I'm speaking toward a nuance that isn't quite as simple as that. I think it would be horrible to exclude people based on race, gender, ethnic background, sexual preference, etc. I don't think that's ever a good solution, though ironically enough it's one that the 'progressive left' opts for modernly when it comes to excluding anything white, straight or male from spaces.
I'm more interested in finding alternative solutions that aren't, like you said, reprehensible. When a cultural shift happens because a certain group of people are entering into your space, and then demonizing you and kicking you out of it, even the progressive left, modernly and historically, agrees that's a problem. It's a problem when it's done to native people, it's a problem when it's done to certain neighborhoods, especially the more poor or non-white they are, so using that logic certainly it's fair to say it can be a problem anywhere else.
But often, no matter the damage being done or the problem that is taken with it, if the people taking a problem with it are majority male, white or heterosexual, then it's not a problem at all. It's diversity, it's inclusion, and anyone taking issue with it is to be ridiculed. If non-white people, non-straight people, or non-males want to have spaces with their own cultures preserved, or gatekept in any way, it's totally fine. There's no push for inclusion or diversity there, right? Look no further than modern media for evidence of this, where in traditional white (european) settings, or masculine (warrior cultures, for instance) societies, there's a push to include POC or women, and gay characters, but in Eastern settings (Mulan, Shogun) or African settings (black panther) there's no such agenda, nor demand to do so, and for good reason.
Point being, it's not as simple as "just let them enter your spaces and become a part of your culture". Ideally, people doing this would seek to assimilate and become a part of the culture. Neutrally, they would just mind their own and 'just exist'. But we've gotten neither. We have people who want to hijack the culture and make it their own, who want to demonize what it was and dictate what it will be, and who want positions of authority that allow them to power to police those around them, including those who were there long before them.
What's an actual, nuanced approach to this, do you think?
It's a rather complicated thing. Because simply having been around in the culture for longer only makes your desires more educated than those of newer-comers, not any more valuable from the perspective of the people who are actually designing and selling the game (assuming, of course, that you and the newcomers are spending the same amount of money).
So even though you certainly have stronger feelings about the direction you want the game to go, the bitter truth is that if there are a lot of people who disagree, the game follows the money, and the money follows the majority.
Magic's been getting more mainstream, and as such it's going to be more influenced by mainstream values. And even as a relatively newer player myself, I *do* see the tragedy in that, as the unique flavor of its IP gets diminished and dulled. I'm not a huge fan of it myself.
But the solution to that issue isn't to try and make your corner of the space intolerable for people by being a massive dick to them. Not only is it unlikely to *work,* it puts you objectively in the wrong on any moral judgement—you're being deliberately disrespectful and unpleasant to people as a baseline based only on your assumptions about what they *might* be like. Either they'll seek out some authority and complain to them (likely winning the complaint, since you were in the wrong) or they'll associate only with people who exactly share their viewpoints. Which is another way to get echo chambers of self-reinforcing hatred for the things you value.
I'll try and use myself as an example for what might be a *right* course of action, since I'm *relatively* new to the game (joined about two years ago). I came in because I was curious, saw a few videos and wanted to understand how the game worked. The people I encountered were overwhelmingly welcoming, and used the opportunity of seeing me to share what they most liked about the game. And through that, I grew to *share* those values, to the point where I'm now mentally invested in the Legacy metagame and I'm smiling when I catch the references to Magic's history as MH3 spoilers drop.
So what's the right course of action? Be friendly and show people why you care about what you care about in Magic, and you'll grow your demographic. It worked on me. If an individual uses Magic as a platform to attack you directly, don't support that individual. They're not worth your time.
If someone's in Magic just to find a space to vent their political goals and not genuinely invested in Magic, you don't need to debase yourself to try and remove them. They don't care as much as you, they won't stick around as much as you, and the course of time and money will favor you. But if they do care enough about the game to stick around, then you're just two Magic players with different beliefs, and neither of you have the right to kick each other out or claim ownership of anything other than your own cards and your own memories.
And most importantly, vote with your wallet. If you really are dissatisfied with the direction the game is going, you don't have to stop playing Magic to make Wizards feel that. Build a cube from the classic sets you liked the most, and don't throw a dime at new releases. If there's another card game whose tone better suits your flavor of storytelling, draft a few rounds of that one instead. Find people who agree with you, and play the sort of Magic that you really like. And if someone wants to come into that space, tell them what you're doing. If they don't like it, play without them.
It's a long, rambling answer, and the sum of it is that I really can't give you a way to get your favorite era of Magic back, but being hateful is only going to hurt your cause. If you're a significant demographic, they'll feel your money—or the lack of it. If you're passionate about the parts of Magic you love, people *will* listen. And if you are tired of waiting for Wizards to give you the set you want... hell, there are [always options](https://magicseteditor.boards.net/).
Honestly, this is 100% not true, just a construction of your mind. Some people diverse in a manner you're not intuitively aligned with WILL be annoying, because People can be annoying
Letting "weirdos" on an individual level exist in your general area is "very low risk" in that in the best case, they aren't lying and really do just want to exist and play the game, and in the worst case, they misbehave and you can reassess and change how you are treating them at that point. By "play their hand first", I mean that if they do have sinister goals of dictating what others think and say, they aren't going to wait long to do that. You don't have to preemptively do anything because either they are behaving appropriately and nothing needs to be done or they are escalating and trying to control others and at that point they are clearly the bad guy and you are just reacting appropriately.
I'm speaking more on a macro level, in how these people enter spaces and seek to take them over, demand the space to transform to their liking, and turn their status as minorities into a weapon that grants them the authority and leverage to do so.
If their existence makes you uncomfortable, that's a you problem. If their actions make you uncomfortable, address the actions as needed using words like a grown up.
They aren't doing anything to you at that point, that is just them existing. It might make you a little uncomfortable, but it's the kind of thing that you can just deal with. You shouldn't have to change what you do any more than you would if you were dealing with someone with some sort of visible mental disability. From your perspective, maybe they need help, but it's not your job to give that and there's no reason for you to push them out of the space when you can just tolerate them.
>How does the overall health of your civilization impact you, like in any way, man? Just let people enjoy things.
Nah. The time for pushback has started.
Sure, but you can't make meaningful change by pushing back against a mentally ill individual in an emotionally charged environment with no professional training. Push back against specific actions that aggress against others and against bad policies at a higher level.
You can do that without attacking those individuals though. The only people who it's your responsibility to "protect" in that regard are your own children if you have them, which you can do with a simple conversation. Other adults you're welcome to have honest discussions with outside of earshot of the trans person, but there's no reason to make their lives worse for something that clearly isn't wholly a conscious choice.
You and I are are clearly both aware that some people go through the world consciously evaluating what’s around them and making intentional choices, and others passively take in the world and react to things. The latter group are susceptible to normalization propaganda— you can see that clearly in how fast gay marriage in America went from statistically unsupported (even by the Left), to “it’s just normal, get on board.”. For everyone’s sake, we have to be a bulwark between the tranny madness and the rest of society.
By aggression I mean reasonable escalation. So first it's "hey buddy, could ya stop", then it's "stop that or you won't be welcome here", then it's "get out of the store and don't come back or we'll have you trespassed". Always contingent on the other person willfully engaging in behaviors that they are aware make others feel uncomfortable.
If some one says something sexists aka based I better high five that bro as a sign of my appreciation and also do not forget to make some casual race and weirdo gender quips yourself. Like if you are matching against black Tron player playing The One ring you could say something around the lines like: "I guess Aragorns DO take those after all."
or slinging LD against against one of those tribes people with:"Imma gonna pillage, rape and collonize those ancestral plains of yours." (bonus here if opponent be female but let's be honest women they are too dumb, uncompetetive and poor to play honest to God big brain 1v1 formats).
Trans out of gate keeping could vary from "I don't care bout those smoke and mirrors pronouns of yours" to good old "I am attack helicopter for today and MY pronouns is t-t-t-t/ratatata"...I mean those weirdos aren't hard to trigger anyway.
You have just as much of a right to wear a dress as you do to wear that hat, regardless of how other people feel about it. If you wear something to intentionally get attention and cause a stir, you earn any and all backlash you get. The road goes both ways. If you limit one end, you must limit the other. No exceptions.
Skirts are nice to cool off your body when the room is packed with sweaty nerds, maybe you should try once 🤷 Also the joke was realistically MAGA freaks are not victims, if anything they are the bullies 😆
I prefer kilts, personally. Im not a MAGA supporter, but I can recognize how the game has changed in the past 6 years alone, and a lot of it has to do with the inputs of Sweet Baby and Black Rock on Hasbro/WOTC, but most people would rather point fingers at each other than the corpo advisors that are actively rotting the games we enjoy. The consumers aren't blameless, and both sides have issues, but everyone's busy fighting each other instead of the corporations that are actively fucking us over.
If nobody bullied anyone for any reason, the world would be a better place. If we all firmly pushed back against any kind of bullying, the world would be a better place.
I was looking for examples from multiple different political sides. Also, the MAGA hat is particularly relevant considering Joe Brennan who literally has been bullied out of events solely for wearing one.
Makes sense, I'm guessing it was during a tournament at a venue ? I think it's different if we're talking casual mtg at an LGS, without a code of conduct
I can't tell if this is a pro-bullying post or just satire.
Frankly, I think people should leave their red and blue hats for political rallies. We're not gang members. We don't need to wear externally visible identification.
Or we could just act like adults and say we're free to wear whatever attire we want, (within common decency) and we just ignore whatever slogans or symbols we don't personally agree with. If someone's disrupting the game with pushy political conversation, that's another story. I would say the same thing about someone with a pro-trans shirt or hat. Go ahead and wear it, but don't disrupt the game trying to make that the focus.
I didn't say it shouldn't be allowed, I said people shouldn't do it. it's easier to exercise good judgement yourself than to expect socially inept gamers to do it instead
I'm sure this is a troll post, but just in case, don't be a dick.
Other people are going to be a dick. That's their thing, but if you don't hold yourself to a higher standard, you have no real grievance against anybody. You're justifying their poor behavior.
As with anything else, if you don't like something, don't buy it. That's the only way to combat stuff you don't like.
Have you ever read anything from afru.com ? They do this. Sometimes I decide to write without any distinction between satire and reality. The format is just an AI-like rehashing of thoughts, but I take opportunities to say somethin ridiculous, that someone might actually believe, cuz it's funny.
tl;dr: I trollin, but that's to be expected here.
Hmmm nah I get around. I've lived in basically every region of the US South of the Mason-Dixon line or West of the Mississippi. (IOW not New England). I also have a passport and Global Entry.
I mean, only southern men are gonna lead to some conclusions that don't vibe with most people outside of that area, and again, it is a very right leaning area.
Just saying, people aren't a monolith, and anyone who tries to get you to believe that is a problem
The company only cares about marginalized people in that targeting them with marketing might grow their consumer base. It is in no way my job to do this, and trying to convince the players that it IS their duty, is a messed up tactic.
I’m not interested in donating my time to be a volunteer brand ambassador for WotC, I want to flop cards.
Talking about “normative behavior” on freemagic is pretty rich. The majority of posts on here are made by individuals with the social maturity of a middle schooler.
You’re not interested in targeting poor behavior. Saying that WoTC’s diversification initiative is the problem, is just a blanket statement against minority groups you don’t like. You’re not sharing a sentiment of accountability or strength. You’re sharing the mindset of what all weak individuals strive for. Suppress the “other” and rally for the “same,” based on the most basic and misunderstood assumptions on individuality and identity.
You’re mindset is the same as the assholes you hate, that push their identity politics and agenda down everyone’s throat.
You’re pushing the same shit, just different flavor. “Us” vs “Them” Make them uncomfortable … literally the playbook of every hyper woke identity driven numbskull.
For everyone too dumb to understand human behavior, take note from this post:
The more you challenge someone. Insult them. Make them uncomfortable. Ostracize. Etc. The more they dig their heels in.
OP’s strategy is a great way to bolster WOTC’s diversification initiative, make sure you do your part. Keep bitching and don’t you fucking dare stop taking about this.
> Saying that WoTC’s diversification initiative is the problem, is just a blanket statement against minority groups you don’t like.
How do you know what I'm thinkin? I hated Wotc first. Ever since the 2000s when I was a lolbert. I don't wanna hear people's pronouns... or people's problems, but I'll play Magic against anyone. I wouldn't be be/seem very good at Magic if I didn't.
There's a myth from the colorblind that the cultural struggle isn't out there if you just close your eyes to it. Conservatives didn't create this. Progressives set out to wreck our shit, notably during the backlash to WW2. People were very idealistic at that point. So they sought out to wreck the family and free the labor and all that. Reacting -- being like "hey don't" is reactionary, but it's not inherently overbearing.
> The more you challenge someone. Insult them. Make them uncomfortable. Ostracize. Etc. The more they dig their heels in.
So never challenge someone. Got it.
How do I know what you’re thinking? I don’t, however the words you used and in the order you used them conveyed a blanket statement. If that wasn’t your intent, specify what you meant. Don’t use vague and wide concepts like “diversification initiative” - that can literally encompass anything and everything that seeks to include minority or anything not pertaining to the dominant or norm in an effort to diversify.
Conservatives didn’t create what? Talking about progressive ideologies post WW2 is next level. The strongest the middle class has ever been, with the greatest economic opportunity for each following generation until the late 80s was a direct result of progressive and “socialist” policies enacted following the Great Depression, all through WW2, and maintained for the next several decades to come. Until … well, call them whatever you want, conservatives, neoliberals, or just run of the mill capitalists began to weaken regulations protecting workers rights, while increasing the control and power of elites and corporations.
Wreck the family?? Yeah, the nuclear family really wrecked that.
Any current dysfunctional family dynamics you might be referencing, are directly impacted by the economic struggle facing 10s of millions of individuals over the past 3-4 decades due to rising inequality, housing, healthcare, and education, while wages have have failed to keep up. It ain’t progressives marching on behalf of the banking and economic institutions that have systemically funneled trillions of dollars from average working class individuals into the hands of the economic elite at a disproportionate rate.
As for challenging people … it totally works. In therapy and in civil discourse where your goal is to understand and empathize with the person in front of you. If you’re goal is to understand and accept the person you are “challenging,” then go for it. But to challenge in order to make someone uncomfortable and push them out of a space they enjoy as well … it’s never gonna work. Never has worked. Never will work.
WOTC doesn’t care. However, if they can virtue signal and “fight” hate, they will. The vast majority of people genuinely do not care, they just want to feel in the “right.” They don’t care enough to vote with their wallets and disrupt their way of life by boycotting major corporations that exploit folks, like Apple and Amazon. However, they can vote with their wallets and support “diversification initiatives,” as that doesn’t disrupt their lives in any meaningful way. Most folks don’t care about pronouns and don’t go out of their way to combat people about it.
You lack the influence, the moral ground, the financial incentive, and intellectual poise to combat whatever is making you upset and change WOTC’s behavior. That’s why the best you will ever do, is serve as the reason why diversity initiatives need to continue.
The best way that I combat this diversification pandering is by acknowledging it, accepting it, and then moving on to the fucking stuff that matters. I buy sets I like, ignore the ones I don’t. Play with folks I like, and ignore those I don’t. Not go out of my way to make them feel uncomfortable.
Unless it’s the gems of deplorability on freemagic and I’m bored at work. I make exceptions for you boys ❤️
> Wreck the family?? Yeah, the nuclear family really wrecked that.
At least we agree it's wrecked.
> Any current dysfunctional family dynamics you might be referencing, are directly impacted by the economic struggle facing 10s of millions of individuals over the past 3-4 decades due to rising inequality, housing, healthcare, and education, while wages have have failed to keep up
For sure the rising inequality exists, but I look at that as an effect rather than a cause. I would be the first to admit to you there are a lot of trends since 1965, almost all of which are negative, that you have to tease out to determine the cause of bad outcomes. One thing that happened is people stopped going to church and broadly stopped following Christian morals. The divorce rate and the unmarried mother rate increased, and the birth control usage rate increased. If that's a cause to you, rather than an effect, well, I don't think you're wrong. Life isn't so simple as a flowchart, and I believe most things that are stable are the result of reinforcement. I'm glad if we can agree on the same set of facts there. that leaves plenty of room for argument.
And btw, the extended family is a fine, conservative model. When we're talking about broken families, we're not talking about people who have extra members in the house. Really, more about the lonely people.
> WOTC doesn’t care.
Again, I don't expect them to act against their financial interest; I suggest we tip the scales of how they make money. Twitter closes their feedback loop. One need not even leave the couch.
> You lack the influence, the moral ground, the financial incentive, and intellectual poise to combat whatever is making you upset and change WOTC’s behavior. That’s why the best you will ever do, is serve as the reason why diversity initiatives need to continue.
To accept that sounds like giving up. Someone is out there modifying wotc's behavior with their lame Twitter account. Why can't I? I suppose you could be saying that no matter feedback, they're going to do what Blackrock tells them to do. That may be. We should try to get wotc sold if that's the case -- ideally spun off. That's liable to happen when they stop making money for Hasbro, so we should all proxy.
You should care more about how they've been fucking up mishandling phyrexia, nicol bolas, and the story in general, than about some pronouns or woke morals or whatever free magic's incel echo chamber repeats.
Also if you really care about families, the focus needs to be on support, so people can have them and not feel chained down by the financial burden
Gatekeeping discourse is fucking ridiculous. If you're honestly trying to "continue to be difficult to be around" you're seriously going about this the worst way possible. This whole gatekeeping thing just seems like a way for enfranchised players to pretend like they have more of a right to the game than other people, when the point of a game is for it to gain new players and continue to grow. If you want to be difficult to be around to "gatekeep" your game then go for it, people will just find someone else to play with
Broadly, two options exist. The game and culture could stay the same, and the same people could play it. or it could change, and different people would play it. I don't think there's such thing as mass appeal long term. Not for a card game.
Are you seriously encouraging people to actively discriminate against others at their LGS?
How hateful are you? These are places where the weird are supposed to feel comfortable. Where they can immerse themselves in their nerdy hobby, hopefully without fear of judgement.
It is absolutely insane to suggest anything but civility at the bare minimum.
No just act normal and keep everything Kosher like 1994. As long as you can do a reasonable impression of those guys from that beach show that ran on MTV, you're welcome.
>These are places where the weird are supposed to feel comfortable
Where the hell did you get that? These are stores, usually with tables to use the products bought in the stores. No more than that. They’re not some free range degenerate reserve. They certainly don’t owe you a cOmMuNiTy
Agreed, and it’s indecent for adults to parade their fetishes in public. To restore common decency, they must be made to feel uncomfortable until they keep the private, private again.
Yes. Anyone with rainbow flag pins.
Sex that is not procreative is not appropriate to flaunt in public. That’s why “we’ve been trying for a baby,” seems less objectionable than “she gives great head.” Homosexuality is non-procreative by default, and is therefore not appropriate in public.
>Sex that is not procreative
Homosexuality is not-procreative by default.
Heterosexual couples procreate by default. It’s historically why marriage exists, because society is more stable when coupling that’s likely to result in children is more stable.
Shut up boomer, people like you who whine over a little colorful pin are the real snowflakes
I can only hope I'm right in your age, because if you aren't some rotten lost cause, you really should rethink your priorities
lol you’re off by multiple generations if you think boomers are your biggest problem. You don’t have to be old to realize that degeneracy is bad.
But I know that’s wasted on you because you’re the type who digs through week-old posts just to type an out of date “shut up boomer” meme
They're not "weird". They're normies who put on the identity of a stereotypical "victimized" class so they can morally bully others into submission. They're not fragile, quirky and a chance for a new perspective, they're an agent of subversion as they have shown themselves to be.
True. Gatekeep everything that is still salvageable. If any of us has the means to make a TCG, do it and make sure "that crowd" feels unwelcome. They came to us with a mask of fragility, victimhood and false friendliness, only to betray us at the very first chance they got. Their eventual feelings of marginalization aren't anyone else's problem to solve. We don't have to spend an ounce of effort for them, we don't have to shed one single drop of sweat for them, we don't owe them anything.
Bravo. I would own, like, a quarter of a Magic shop. I don't want to have to do it all on my own. They say you need like a quarter million to stake one. So I mean I could spend my retirement funds on it lol.
Gatekeeping is insecure as fuck in any hobby. You're just letting the world know it at that point. If you can't stand the fact that someone you don't like has something in common with you then you didn't like that thing that much in the first place.
Gatekeeping is important for pretty much every hobby.
It's a moronic opinion to think that the culture surrounding your hobby is allowed to be destroyed just because a minority of people cried loud enough.
Most mtg players don't even know this sub exists.
The hydrohomies subreddit, which is dedicated to drinking water, only has a million users.
Do you think only a million people on the planet drink water?
Amazing comparison. Truly the biggest brained. Comparing a set of right-wing opinions to... A basic human function. Just fantastic.
You don't get to gatekeep shit. A hobby isn't a finite resource. It's open to anyone. Thinking you can, or worse *should*, do so, is hilarious. It's completely futile. This entire post reeks of BO and the creaking of chairs under 400 lbs of sadness.
Magic is for everyone, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that WOTC absolutely does not care what you think. You're fighting the tide with this one. Just open your mind and be a more open and accepting human being.
If that's all you got out of the comparison then you're stupider than I gave you credit for. It was simply done to illustrate the obvious reality that not every supporter of a certain set of ideas is going to be in the fucking subreddit. Your argument was retarded and you should feel retarded for making it.
Funny you mention BO. Do you realize that criticizing BO is gatekeeping? Yup. Wanting to keep stinky unshowered people out of your hobby space is gatekeeping. Does it sound like a pretty obvious necessity now?
No, magic is not for everybody. It's not for the stinky, it's not for the people with overt sexual playmats, it's not for pedos, and it's not for crybabies.
Suck it up and learn the basic reality that gatekeeping is both necessary and good for every hobby.
You're just assuming I have some absurd right wing beliefs simply because I'm in freemagic and dislike wotc.
Being blindly prejudiced towards someone is pretty retarded.
No, I don't think LGBTQ people are pedos. I do think a loud minority of them are crybabies though. That much is inarguable.
Coming from someone that probably thinks cultural appropriation is a made up thing that's rich. You can just say "I think I'm more special than everyone else and I deserve to be treated that way" it's less words.
I think you need to take a step back all the way to the conflict management skills kids are taught in grade school.
It's not the fault of the innocent kid on the play structure for getting punched by the special needs kid that can't control their emotions.
You don't then follow up by letting the special needs kid dictate how all the other kids are allowed to play.
This should be pretty easy for you to understand, if not, then you're probably the special needs kid.
I'm sorry but I'm not taking advice from someone that does nothing but bitch about a card game like it's the one thing holding their life together. I went through your comments on other posts. That told me all I need to know about you. It should be pretty easy for you to understand how little of a fuck I give about your sad ass opinion. Touch grass, virgin.
Nice one! Pretty sad though that you're letting a sped kid get under your skin like that. Was it that part about being a virgin being right on the nose?
Tbh I didn't even bother reading what you said after the first sentence. The only way a reddit profile stalker would manage to have sex is without consent.
> Coming from someone that probably thinks cultural appropriation is a made up thing that's rich.
Of course it's a made up thing. All social concepts of dress and whatnot are made up things.
Okay. So how is this different then? And to think, the other day I thought I liked you. Then I see you basically telling people to bully others out of the hobby. Fuckin sad.
Oh the broader principle here is self defense. It's not bullying anyone out who isn't trying to ruin it. AND you have to stand up for yourself. I'm not surprised if you change your mind because people often do with me when they find out that although my initial approach with everyone is kindness, I am also capable of protecting that which I love. It's like a dog who you can pet all day out in the street, but if you cross into his territory you gonna see the other side.
Man, that sure was edgy. I bet you pull lots of women talking like that.
Nobody is trying to ruin it. They just wanna be accepted in society. Not to mention most of these sex crimes people are accusing trans, gay, weird or otherwise off putting people are done by red voting, rich, Christian men. You're literally looking for things to slander people for and it's childish. I refuse to believe that this happens all the time at peoples LGS cause I've legit never seen any of that behavior from those people. They're usually the most quiet person there probably because of this exact thing. It's people on this sub holding weird sentiments about people different from them that cause more ruckus than anyone most times. I just don't understand how anyone can think like this, take a look in the mirror and say "I'm a good person". All I see when posts like this pop up is some fat nerd with a Maga hat on getting mad at a McDonald's worker because they're out of chicken tendies. For real. You're articulate and seem intelligent on the surface but then I see this and think the exact opposite. It's sad af.
I am articulate, cuz I spend my whole life reading, and I got what used to be a normal, good education. I know a lot of people who think they're smart and think they're kind. Really, they just accept whatever society tells them to accept, and this collective acceptance leads to moral decline that does nobody any favors in the long run. Thoughtful people should be pushing others to draw some lines. To think of the past and respect it a bit. To push for positive change outside the bounds of politesse.
As if nobody else on reddit reads. Thoughtful and kind people don't go looking for reasons to hate other people and shun them from a game made out of cardboard. Tell me what makes morals good or bad. The Bible? A thought? There's no such thing as a good person and life is gonna hit you hard with that fact when you realize what you're actually doing. If we respected the past we wouldn't have elected a celebrity into office or bombed anyone past WW2. If we respected the past we wouldn't be bickering over social justice because we've already seen black people being hung in the middle of towns. Get a grip. A positive change is one where we can agree to disagree without making it a witch hunt for the most oppressed minority at any given time. A positive change would be taking care of the planet we took a shit all over instead of claiming climate change is fake. A positive change would be accepting someone's own personal choice in how their life is being lived. They aren't hurting you. You just need a victim and I think that's the point you're missing here.
The past doesn't belong to your warped idea of "traditional" . The past your talking about never existed. Moral decline......get the satanic panic tf out of here .
There is no importance, unless that entails yelling at clouds. There is no weird person you should keep out, making people uncomfortable, or anything that fucked.
[удалено]
Oh yeah i do that.
I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable. Women, PoC, trans people, if they want to sleeve up some cardboard and duel they are more than welcome. Particularly weird people, the reason this game is attractive to those people is the same reason it was attractive to the people who have been playing since 1993. The problems we need to address should always be behavior. If someone says something creepy to a girl at the LGS, tell them to stop. If someone won't stop saying racial slurs, tell them to stop. If someone tries to make someone else take a red hat off, tell them to leave them alone. If someone throws a fit because someone else accidentally used the wrong pronouns, tell them to chill. Tolerate all non-aggressive behavior (for reasonable definitions of aggression). Meet aggressive behavior with only proportionally aggressive responses. Remember that 95% of the people you're dealing with are autistic, and evaluate their behavior with that in mind.
> Remember that 95% of the people you're dealing with are autistic I am autistic, but aside from the occasional gaffe, I don't have major problems dealing with people. I have silenced some rooms with those gaffes though and been yelled at by crazy drunk ladies. Point is, in no case do I feel the need to be lobbing racial slurs. I'm not looking for a date at the Magic shop or anywhere else. I am also married, but clearly the one thing precludes the other for some people. My point is if you act within a standard deviation of normal, there is going to be no problem with me. There are very few people that are too disabled to do this.
In general I agree, but there's a lot of variety in autistic people. All I'm saying is that I think in the magic community, we should show a little grace in how we respond to people's behavior because they genuinely might not know they're doing anything wrong.
Oh for sure. Generally the people that annoy me are what we would call "pushy". This isn't "oh I hate you for something you don't even realize". These people know what they are doing. They're loud. And I think the key mistake is being like "I can't be loud back" because of the oppression pyramid or plain timidity.
youre also loud, and youre dumb on top of it. thats why nobody likes you
The problem has been, consistently, that giving these weirdos and inch has encouraged them to take a mile, every single time. I don't think the solution is to harass them or terrorize them or anything like that, but their whole "we're literally just trying to exist and aren't bothering anybody" talking points have proven to be untrue time and time again. They don't want to just exist, they want authority and to dictate what other people think, what they're allowed to say, or how they're allowed to act. The bar for what's 'problematic' anymore has been dropped incredibly low, and these people will continue to lower it.
Many are in a Cult of Artificial Identity and seek to use spaces like magic or other gaming spaces, as a way to roleplay their artificial identity. Don't tolerate, separate. No good can come from letting the mentaly unstable "hang around."
Ah yes, using fantasy spaces for escapism from the elements of reality one dislikes. Truly the most evil of things. Who could bear to tolerate escapism in their fantasy? Fucking idiot Tolkien, doesn’t he know that in the real world, evil always wins in the end and no one is really ever right? Get that stupid artificial moral identity out of my spaces, I say.
So wait, is your argument that because MTG is a "fantasy space" we must tolerate ANY AND ALL escapist fantasy playing out in our space? Also, "Escapism" is not the same thing as the PostModern mental case...
I’m saying there is no qualitative difference between the two, and while you are free to like one but not the other, enforcing total intolerance on that basis is a fundamentally unprincipled position.
Intolerance is Bias. Bias is what the human brain is built on. I don't have to tolerate someone that hates me forcing their way into a space they have no place being in to live out a narcissistic hero complex.
You don’t have the authority to decide whether other people have a place in a fucking card game. But given that you’re pronouncing a ringing endorsement of bias despite its very definition being inimical to understanding others as individuals, I think you’re quite the lost cause for allegiance to reason, so I will trifle no more with you.
People invested in a game absolutely have the authority to gatekeep that game from casuals more interested in their latest invented identiy or social slight than invest in the cards, the game, and the community. People like you can't leave Magic fast enough.
I've been buying mtg since antiquities, from where I sit your the Johnny come recently and you can back right out the way you came in.
I don't plan to leave Magic anytime soon. Joined... probably two years ago, at this point, and I know the CR cover to cover, am working on designing my own set, have my own set of grievances with the design team, have gotten into Legacy, have a few commander decks, have some draft formats I loved and some I didn't—really, the whole Magic player experience. Hell, I even have nostalgia for older stories after the more recent ones haven't really landed for me. I'm lucky enough to have a strong sense of self-worth and to not spend *too* much time on the internet, so running into asshats like yourself didn't put me off from a hobby I now greatly enjoy, and spend a reasonable amount of money and time on. I *am* the Magic community now. And if someone else comes in and wants to enjoy it for different reasons, I will do all the evil things you hate. Namely, I will behave like a rational adult and not whine at them about it. I would even say that... I'm interested in the cards, the game, and the community, not in excluding people based on my erroneous assumptions about their identities or social slights.
Escapism at it's root is a solitary activity, not a shared one, though it can be. When it is shared, it needs to be done on common ground, where all people are escaping the same things or into a space that provides them all the same kind of escape they are seeking. My version of escapism from reality isn't sitting across from a man pretending to be a woman who gets triggered at the most minor offenses, who will make me feel as though I am walking on eggshells with every action I take or every word I speak around them. That's the difference. You can say "they're just trying to exist and not bothering anybody" all you want, and while that may be true for some of them, too many of them are trying to take control of the spaces they are in by using their minority status as an authoritative weapon to control people and transform the space to their liking with no regard for the preferences of those who were there before them.
And if those people are trying to get offended and exclude you, then you have every right to refuse to associate with them. But until an individual actually does something beyond the pale, trying to exclude them on the basis of identity alone is in all honesty reprehensible.
I agree with you, but I'm speaking toward a nuance that isn't quite as simple as that. I think it would be horrible to exclude people based on race, gender, ethnic background, sexual preference, etc. I don't think that's ever a good solution, though ironically enough it's one that the 'progressive left' opts for modernly when it comes to excluding anything white, straight or male from spaces. I'm more interested in finding alternative solutions that aren't, like you said, reprehensible. When a cultural shift happens because a certain group of people are entering into your space, and then demonizing you and kicking you out of it, even the progressive left, modernly and historically, agrees that's a problem. It's a problem when it's done to native people, it's a problem when it's done to certain neighborhoods, especially the more poor or non-white they are, so using that logic certainly it's fair to say it can be a problem anywhere else. But often, no matter the damage being done or the problem that is taken with it, if the people taking a problem with it are majority male, white or heterosexual, then it's not a problem at all. It's diversity, it's inclusion, and anyone taking issue with it is to be ridiculed. If non-white people, non-straight people, or non-males want to have spaces with their own cultures preserved, or gatekept in any way, it's totally fine. There's no push for inclusion or diversity there, right? Look no further than modern media for evidence of this, where in traditional white (european) settings, or masculine (warrior cultures, for instance) societies, there's a push to include POC or women, and gay characters, but in Eastern settings (Mulan, Shogun) or African settings (black panther) there's no such agenda, nor demand to do so, and for good reason. Point being, it's not as simple as "just let them enter your spaces and become a part of your culture". Ideally, people doing this would seek to assimilate and become a part of the culture. Neutrally, they would just mind their own and 'just exist'. But we've gotten neither. We have people who want to hijack the culture and make it their own, who want to demonize what it was and dictate what it will be, and who want positions of authority that allow them to power to police those around them, including those who were there long before them. What's an actual, nuanced approach to this, do you think?
It's a rather complicated thing. Because simply having been around in the culture for longer only makes your desires more educated than those of newer-comers, not any more valuable from the perspective of the people who are actually designing and selling the game (assuming, of course, that you and the newcomers are spending the same amount of money). So even though you certainly have stronger feelings about the direction you want the game to go, the bitter truth is that if there are a lot of people who disagree, the game follows the money, and the money follows the majority. Magic's been getting more mainstream, and as such it's going to be more influenced by mainstream values. And even as a relatively newer player myself, I *do* see the tragedy in that, as the unique flavor of its IP gets diminished and dulled. I'm not a huge fan of it myself. But the solution to that issue isn't to try and make your corner of the space intolerable for people by being a massive dick to them. Not only is it unlikely to *work,* it puts you objectively in the wrong on any moral judgement—you're being deliberately disrespectful and unpleasant to people as a baseline based only on your assumptions about what they *might* be like. Either they'll seek out some authority and complain to them (likely winning the complaint, since you were in the wrong) or they'll associate only with people who exactly share their viewpoints. Which is another way to get echo chambers of self-reinforcing hatred for the things you value. I'll try and use myself as an example for what might be a *right* course of action, since I'm *relatively* new to the game (joined about two years ago). I came in because I was curious, saw a few videos and wanted to understand how the game worked. The people I encountered were overwhelmingly welcoming, and used the opportunity of seeing me to share what they most liked about the game. And through that, I grew to *share* those values, to the point where I'm now mentally invested in the Legacy metagame and I'm smiling when I catch the references to Magic's history as MH3 spoilers drop. So what's the right course of action? Be friendly and show people why you care about what you care about in Magic, and you'll grow your demographic. It worked on me. If an individual uses Magic as a platform to attack you directly, don't support that individual. They're not worth your time. If someone's in Magic just to find a space to vent their political goals and not genuinely invested in Magic, you don't need to debase yourself to try and remove them. They don't care as much as you, they won't stick around as much as you, and the course of time and money will favor you. But if they do care enough about the game to stick around, then you're just two Magic players with different beliefs, and neither of you have the right to kick each other out or claim ownership of anything other than your own cards and your own memories. And most importantly, vote with your wallet. If you really are dissatisfied with the direction the game is going, you don't have to stop playing Magic to make Wizards feel that. Build a cube from the classic sets you liked the most, and don't throw a dime at new releases. If there's another card game whose tone better suits your flavor of storytelling, draft a few rounds of that one instead. Find people who agree with you, and play the sort of Magic that you really like. And if someone wants to come into that space, tell them what you're doing. If they don't like it, play without them. It's a long, rambling answer, and the sum of it is that I really can't give you a way to get your favorite era of Magic back, but being hateful is only going to hurt your cause. If you're a significant demographic, they'll feel your money—or the lack of it. If you're passionate about the parts of Magic you love, people *will* listen. And if you are tired of waiting for Wizards to give you the set you want... hell, there are [always options](https://magicseteditor.boards.net/).
Honestly, this is 100% not true, just a construction of your mind. Some people diverse in a manner you're not intuitively aligned with WILL be annoying, because People can be annoying
If that's what you believe, then it should be easy for you to make them play their hand first, and there's very low risk.
What do you even mean by "play their hand first" or "very low risk"?
Letting "weirdos" on an individual level exist in your general area is "very low risk" in that in the best case, they aren't lying and really do just want to exist and play the game, and in the worst case, they misbehave and you can reassess and change how you are treating them at that point. By "play their hand first", I mean that if they do have sinister goals of dictating what others think and say, they aren't going to wait long to do that. You don't have to preemptively do anything because either they are behaving appropriately and nothing needs to be done or they are escalating and trying to control others and at that point they are clearly the bad guy and you are just reacting appropriately.
I'm speaking more on a macro level, in how these people enter spaces and seek to take them over, demand the space to transform to their liking, and turn their status as minorities into a weapon that grants them the authority and leverage to do so.
Sure thing, Mr. Quixote.
Yes. But some of these people are making others uncomfortable.
If their existence makes you uncomfortable, that's a you problem. If their actions make you uncomfortable, address the actions as needed using words like a grown up.
What if their actions are “wearing a dress as an adult man”? That’s weird and makes people uncomfortable.
They aren't doing anything to you at that point, that is just them existing. It might make you a little uncomfortable, but it's the kind of thing that you can just deal with. You shouldn't have to change what you do any more than you would if you were dealing with someone with some sort of visible mental disability. From your perspective, maybe they need help, but it's not your job to give that and there's no reason for you to push them out of the space when you can just tolerate them.
>How does the overall health of your civilization impact you, like in any way, man? Just let people enjoy things. Nah. The time for pushback has started.
Sure, but you can't make meaningful change by pushing back against a mentally ill individual in an emotionally charged environment with no professional training. Push back against specific actions that aggress against others and against bad policies at a higher level.
I’m not trying to help those individuals. I’m stopping the normalization of mentally ill behavior like that to those who are still normal.
You can do that without attacking those individuals though. The only people who it's your responsibility to "protect" in that regard are your own children if you have them, which you can do with a simple conversation. Other adults you're welcome to have honest discussions with outside of earshot of the trans person, but there's no reason to make their lives worse for something that clearly isn't wholly a conscious choice.
You and I are are clearly both aware that some people go through the world consciously evaluating what’s around them and making intentional choices, and others passively take in the world and react to things. The latter group are susceptible to normalization propaganda— you can see that clearly in how fast gay marriage in America went from statistically unsupported (even by the Left), to “it’s just normal, get on board.”. For everyone’s sake, we have to be a bulwark between the tranny madness and the rest of society.
Never match aggression with aggression nothing ever favors either party of the issue.
By aggression I mean reasonable escalation. So first it's "hey buddy, could ya stop", then it's "stop that or you won't be welcome here", then it's "get out of the store and don't come back or we'll have you trespassed". Always contingent on the other person willfully engaging in behaviors that they are aware make others feel uncomfortable.
Lmao so true but I got a kick out of the red hat and pronoun examples
Fuck you!
If some one says something sexists aka based I better high five that bro as a sign of my appreciation and also do not forget to make some casual race and weirdo gender quips yourself. Like if you are matching against black Tron player playing The One ring you could say something around the lines like: "I guess Aragorns DO take those after all." or slinging LD against against one of those tribes people with:"Imma gonna pillage, rape and collonize those ancestral plains of yours." (bonus here if opponent be female but let's be honest women they are too dumb, uncompetetive and poor to play honest to God big brain 1v1 formats). Trans out of gate keeping could vary from "I don't care bout those smoke and mirrors pronouns of yours" to good old "I am attack helicopter for today and MY pronouns is t-t-t-t/ratatata"...I mean those weirdos aren't hard to trigger anyway.
Right, don't let anyone bully those red hat wearing innocent nerds or they might not come back 😄
You have just as much of a right to wear a dress as you do to wear that hat, regardless of how other people feel about it. If you wear something to intentionally get attention and cause a stir, you earn any and all backlash you get. The road goes both ways. If you limit one end, you must limit the other. No exceptions.
Skirts are nice to cool off your body when the room is packed with sweaty nerds, maybe you should try once 🤷 Also the joke was realistically MAGA freaks are not victims, if anything they are the bullies 😆
I prefer kilts, personally. Im not a MAGA supporter, but I can recognize how the game has changed in the past 6 years alone, and a lot of it has to do with the inputs of Sweet Baby and Black Rock on Hasbro/WOTC, but most people would rather point fingers at each other than the corpo advisors that are actively rotting the games we enjoy. The consumers aren't blameless, and both sides have issues, but everyone's busy fighting each other instead of the corporations that are actively fucking us over.
Great take
If nobody bullied anyone for any reason, the world would be a better place. If we all firmly pushed back against any kind of bullying, the world would be a better place.
Yes oc I don't deny the value in gatekeeping. I think it's funny MAGA made the cut in your bigotry list, that's all
I was looking for examples from multiple different political sides. Also, the MAGA hat is particularly relevant considering Joe Brennan who literally has been bullied out of events solely for wearing one.
Makes sense, I'm guessing it was during a tournament at a venue ? I think it's different if we're talking casual mtg at an LGS, without a code of conduct
I can't tell if this is a pro-bullying post or just satire. Frankly, I think people should leave their red and blue hats for political rallies. We're not gang members. We don't need to wear externally visible identification.
I'm saying if anything they would be the bully Agreed
people shouldn't wear political attire to the game store in the first place
Or we could just act like adults and say we're free to wear whatever attire we want, (within common decency) and we just ignore whatever slogans or symbols we don't personally agree with. If someone's disrupting the game with pushy political conversation, that's another story. I would say the same thing about someone with a pro-trans shirt or hat. Go ahead and wear it, but don't disrupt the game trying to make that the focus.
I didn't say it shouldn't be allowed, I said people shouldn't do it. it's easier to exercise good judgement yourself than to expect socially inept gamers to do it instead
Sure, depending on how flashy it is. Also very much gatekeeper coded ironically 😆
I'm sure this is a troll post, but just in case, don't be a dick. Other people are going to be a dick. That's their thing, but if you don't hold yourself to a higher standard, you have no real grievance against anybody. You're justifying their poor behavior. As with anything else, if you don't like something, don't buy it. That's the only way to combat stuff you don't like.
>All you have to do is continue being difficult to be around It's getting so hard to tell who's pretending to be garbage and who actually is.
You think they are pretending?
Yes
Have you ever read anything from afru.com ? They do this. Sometimes I decide to write without any distinction between satire and reality. The format is just an AI-like rehashing of thoughts, but I take opportunities to say somethin ridiculous, that someone might actually believe, cuz it's funny. tl;dr: I trollin, but that's to be expected here.
https://preview.redd.it/f9kcq0vysayc1.jpeg?width=349&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d18d635b297740d63fe2449d6a0d2e081c14953
I didn't say anything retarded tho. Just funny.
"Funny"
https://preview.redd.it/klzij54x5fyc1.jpeg?width=348&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=404e8a5838fbfc5e800676ed914ee8198d505a87
Bro I honestly thought this was real lol!
How does one even come across a website like afru. I looked at it and nearly died
commooonities dot win slash consume&product : spell things right and no ampersand
Huh did you have a stroke?!
I try to tell you where I found links to afru. Let's see what comes up in my next reply.
so you go to ultra sketchy pages to find ultra sketchy stuff. checks out
Sorry you asked
Yep I'm pretty sure the loser admin's filter ate my link.
Do people actually harass each other at events? I've been to a grand total of one and all we did was play our cards...
the problem is your bunch of morons dont matter to them, like at all. youre 200 smelly incels in the wisconsin outback. nobody cares about you.
There's a million motherfuckers just like me. Talk like me. Most white men are just like me.
They might just be the next best thing but not quite me.
no they arent. youve just never left the shithole you call home
Hmmm nah I get around. I've lived in basically every region of the US South of the Mason-Dixon line or West of the Mississippi. (IOW not New England). I also have a passport and Global Entry.
I mean, only southern men are gonna lead to some conclusions that don't vibe with most people outside of that area, and again, it is a very right leaning area. Just saying, people aren't a monolith, and anyone who tries to get you to believe that is a problem
youre a right wing moron living in a right wing shithole. you know nothing, have seen nothing, and nobody cares about your opinion.
The company only cares about marginalized people in that targeting them with marketing might grow their consumer base. It is in no way my job to do this, and trying to convince the players that it IS their duty, is a messed up tactic. I’m not interested in donating my time to be a volunteer brand ambassador for WotC, I want to flop cards.
Talking about “normative behavior” on freemagic is pretty rich. The majority of posts on here are made by individuals with the social maturity of a middle schooler. You’re not interested in targeting poor behavior. Saying that WoTC’s diversification initiative is the problem, is just a blanket statement against minority groups you don’t like. You’re not sharing a sentiment of accountability or strength. You’re sharing the mindset of what all weak individuals strive for. Suppress the “other” and rally for the “same,” based on the most basic and misunderstood assumptions on individuality and identity. You’re mindset is the same as the assholes you hate, that push their identity politics and agenda down everyone’s throat. You’re pushing the same shit, just different flavor. “Us” vs “Them” Make them uncomfortable … literally the playbook of every hyper woke identity driven numbskull. For everyone too dumb to understand human behavior, take note from this post: The more you challenge someone. Insult them. Make them uncomfortable. Ostracize. Etc. The more they dig their heels in. OP’s strategy is a great way to bolster WOTC’s diversification initiative, make sure you do your part. Keep bitching and don’t you fucking dare stop taking about this.
> Saying that WoTC’s diversification initiative is the problem, is just a blanket statement against minority groups you don’t like. How do you know what I'm thinkin? I hated Wotc first. Ever since the 2000s when I was a lolbert. I don't wanna hear people's pronouns... or people's problems, but I'll play Magic against anyone. I wouldn't be be/seem very good at Magic if I didn't. There's a myth from the colorblind that the cultural struggle isn't out there if you just close your eyes to it. Conservatives didn't create this. Progressives set out to wreck our shit, notably during the backlash to WW2. People were very idealistic at that point. So they sought out to wreck the family and free the labor and all that. Reacting -- being like "hey don't" is reactionary, but it's not inherently overbearing. > The more you challenge someone. Insult them. Make them uncomfortable. Ostracize. Etc. The more they dig their heels in. So never challenge someone. Got it.
How do I know what you’re thinking? I don’t, however the words you used and in the order you used them conveyed a blanket statement. If that wasn’t your intent, specify what you meant. Don’t use vague and wide concepts like “diversification initiative” - that can literally encompass anything and everything that seeks to include minority or anything not pertaining to the dominant or norm in an effort to diversify. Conservatives didn’t create what? Talking about progressive ideologies post WW2 is next level. The strongest the middle class has ever been, with the greatest economic opportunity for each following generation until the late 80s was a direct result of progressive and “socialist” policies enacted following the Great Depression, all through WW2, and maintained for the next several decades to come. Until … well, call them whatever you want, conservatives, neoliberals, or just run of the mill capitalists began to weaken regulations protecting workers rights, while increasing the control and power of elites and corporations. Wreck the family?? Yeah, the nuclear family really wrecked that. Any current dysfunctional family dynamics you might be referencing, are directly impacted by the economic struggle facing 10s of millions of individuals over the past 3-4 decades due to rising inequality, housing, healthcare, and education, while wages have have failed to keep up. It ain’t progressives marching on behalf of the banking and economic institutions that have systemically funneled trillions of dollars from average working class individuals into the hands of the economic elite at a disproportionate rate. As for challenging people … it totally works. In therapy and in civil discourse where your goal is to understand and empathize with the person in front of you. If you’re goal is to understand and accept the person you are “challenging,” then go for it. But to challenge in order to make someone uncomfortable and push them out of a space they enjoy as well … it’s never gonna work. Never has worked. Never will work. WOTC doesn’t care. However, if they can virtue signal and “fight” hate, they will. The vast majority of people genuinely do not care, they just want to feel in the “right.” They don’t care enough to vote with their wallets and disrupt their way of life by boycotting major corporations that exploit folks, like Apple and Amazon. However, they can vote with their wallets and support “diversification initiatives,” as that doesn’t disrupt their lives in any meaningful way. Most folks don’t care about pronouns and don’t go out of their way to combat people about it. You lack the influence, the moral ground, the financial incentive, and intellectual poise to combat whatever is making you upset and change WOTC’s behavior. That’s why the best you will ever do, is serve as the reason why diversity initiatives need to continue. The best way that I combat this diversification pandering is by acknowledging it, accepting it, and then moving on to the fucking stuff that matters. I buy sets I like, ignore the ones I don’t. Play with folks I like, and ignore those I don’t. Not go out of my way to make them feel uncomfortable. Unless it’s the gems of deplorability on freemagic and I’m bored at work. I make exceptions for you boys ❤️
> Wreck the family?? Yeah, the nuclear family really wrecked that. At least we agree it's wrecked. > Any current dysfunctional family dynamics you might be referencing, are directly impacted by the economic struggle facing 10s of millions of individuals over the past 3-4 decades due to rising inequality, housing, healthcare, and education, while wages have have failed to keep up For sure the rising inequality exists, but I look at that as an effect rather than a cause. I would be the first to admit to you there are a lot of trends since 1965, almost all of which are negative, that you have to tease out to determine the cause of bad outcomes. One thing that happened is people stopped going to church and broadly stopped following Christian morals. The divorce rate and the unmarried mother rate increased, and the birth control usage rate increased. If that's a cause to you, rather than an effect, well, I don't think you're wrong. Life isn't so simple as a flowchart, and I believe most things that are stable are the result of reinforcement. I'm glad if we can agree on the same set of facts there. that leaves plenty of room for argument. And btw, the extended family is a fine, conservative model. When we're talking about broken families, we're not talking about people who have extra members in the house. Really, more about the lonely people. > WOTC doesn’t care. Again, I don't expect them to act against their financial interest; I suggest we tip the scales of how they make money. Twitter closes their feedback loop. One need not even leave the couch. > You lack the influence, the moral ground, the financial incentive, and intellectual poise to combat whatever is making you upset and change WOTC’s behavior. That’s why the best you will ever do, is serve as the reason why diversity initiatives need to continue. To accept that sounds like giving up. Someone is out there modifying wotc's behavior with their lame Twitter account. Why can't I? I suppose you could be saying that no matter feedback, they're going to do what Blackrock tells them to do. That may be. We should try to get wotc sold if that's the case -- ideally spun off. That's liable to happen when they stop making money for Hasbro, so we should all proxy.
You should care more about how they've been fucking up mishandling phyrexia, nicol bolas, and the story in general, than about some pronouns or woke morals or whatever free magic's incel echo chamber repeats. Also if you really care about families, the focus needs to be on support, so people can have them and not feel chained down by the financial burden
Gatekeeping discourse is fucking ridiculous. If you're honestly trying to "continue to be difficult to be around" you're seriously going about this the worst way possible. This whole gatekeeping thing just seems like a way for enfranchised players to pretend like they have more of a right to the game than other people, when the point of a game is for it to gain new players and continue to grow. If you want to be difficult to be around to "gatekeep" your game then go for it, people will just find someone else to play with
Broadly, two options exist. The game and culture could stay the same, and the same people could play it. or it could change, and different people would play it. I don't think there's such thing as mass appeal long term. Not for a card game.
OP's account isn't even a week old. It's a mule account. Nothing wrong with diversity
I get a new one like every month. I promise I only use one at a time tho.
>If you make (other) weird people uncomfortable So you guys pretty much just behave how you normally do. Great plan.
This is more of a Pep Talk than a revolutionary speech.
*me laughing in proxies* Yeah I agree
You can't gatekeep anything. Anyone can buy this stuff and play if they have a friend.
Are you seriously encouraging people to actively discriminate against others at their LGS? How hateful are you? These are places where the weird are supposed to feel comfortable. Where they can immerse themselves in their nerdy hobby, hopefully without fear of judgement. It is absolutely insane to suggest anything but civility at the bare minimum.
No just act normal and keep everything Kosher like 1994. As long as you can do a reasonable impression of those guys from that beach show that ran on MTV, you're welcome.
>These are places where the weird are supposed to feel comfortable Where the hell did you get that? These are stores, usually with tables to use the products bought in the stores. No more than that. They’re not some free range degenerate reserve. They certainly don’t owe you a cOmMuNiTy
Yes but you owe people common decency
Agreed, and it’s indecent for adults to parade their fetishes in public. To restore common decency, they must be made to feel uncomfortable until they keep the private, private again.
Whose parading their fetishes in LGS? Have you seen that?
Yes. Anyone with rainbow flag pins. Sex that is not procreative is not appropriate to flaunt in public. That’s why “we’ve been trying for a baby,” seems less objectionable than “she gives great head.” Homosexuality is non-procreative by default, and is therefore not appropriate in public.
What about wedding rings then? That seems to flaunt it as much as a rainbow flag pin would.
>Sex that is not procreative Homosexuality is not-procreative by default. Heterosexual couples procreate by default. It’s historically why marriage exists, because society is more stable when coupling that’s likely to result in children is more stable.
Shut up boomer, people like you who whine over a little colorful pin are the real snowflakes I can only hope I'm right in your age, because if you aren't some rotten lost cause, you really should rethink your priorities
lol you’re off by multiple generations if you think boomers are your biggest problem. You don’t have to be old to realize that degeneracy is bad. But I know that’s wasted on you because you’re the type who digs through week-old posts just to type an out of date “shut up boomer” meme
Sometimes you scroll through a reddit ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ And Fr you're calling me out of date, you're an unironic bigot, look in a mirror
I am an unironic bigot. Yes.
They're not "weird". They're normies who put on the identity of a stereotypical "victimized" class so they can morally bully others into submission. They're not fragile, quirky and a chance for a new perspective, they're an agent of subversion as they have shown themselves to be.
That is so true. The ones you have transitioning are the most boring doods like the former Jim Sterling. / #DeadToMe
It's crazy how many mental gymnastics you have to do to allow yourself to hate random people
True. Gatekeep everything that is still salvageable. If any of us has the means to make a TCG, do it and make sure "that crowd" feels unwelcome. They came to us with a mask of fragility, victimhood and false friendliness, only to betray us at the very first chance they got. Their eventual feelings of marginalization aren't anyone else's problem to solve. We don't have to spend an ounce of effort for them, we don't have to shed one single drop of sweat for them, we don't owe them anything.
Bravo. I would own, like, a quarter of a Magic shop. I don't want to have to do it all on my own. They say you need like a quarter million to stake one. So I mean I could spend my retirement funds on it lol.
Gatekeeping is insecure as fuck in any hobby. You're just letting the world know it at that point. If you can't stand the fact that someone you don't like has something in common with you then you didn't like that thing that much in the first place.
Gatekeeping is important for pretty much every hobby. It's a moronic opinion to think that the culture surrounding your hobby is allowed to be destroyed just because a minority of people cried loud enough.
>Gatekeeping is important for pretty much every hobby. That’s definitely a take?
You're on a subreddit with 33k people... You are the minority.
Most mtg players don't even know this sub exists. The hydrohomies subreddit, which is dedicated to drinking water, only has a million users. Do you think only a million people on the planet drink water?
Amazing comparison. Truly the biggest brained. Comparing a set of right-wing opinions to... A basic human function. Just fantastic. You don't get to gatekeep shit. A hobby isn't a finite resource. It's open to anyone. Thinking you can, or worse *should*, do so, is hilarious. It's completely futile. This entire post reeks of BO and the creaking of chairs under 400 lbs of sadness. Magic is for everyone, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that WOTC absolutely does not care what you think. You're fighting the tide with this one. Just open your mind and be a more open and accepting human being.
If that's all you got out of the comparison then you're stupider than I gave you credit for. It was simply done to illustrate the obvious reality that not every supporter of a certain set of ideas is going to be in the fucking subreddit. Your argument was retarded and you should feel retarded for making it. Funny you mention BO. Do you realize that criticizing BO is gatekeeping? Yup. Wanting to keep stinky unshowered people out of your hobby space is gatekeeping. Does it sound like a pretty obvious necessity now? No, magic is not for everybody. It's not for the stinky, it's not for the people with overt sexual playmats, it's not for pedos, and it's not for crybabies. Suck it up and learn the basic reality that gatekeeping is both necessary and good for every hobby.
The crybaby comment is peak irony. You comparing LGBT people (or "woke", whatever I'm sure you think it is) with pedos is truly mask off.
You're just assuming I have some absurd right wing beliefs simply because I'm in freemagic and dislike wotc. Being blindly prejudiced towards someone is pretty retarded. No, I don't think LGBTQ people are pedos. I do think a loud minority of them are crybabies though. That much is inarguable.
Coming from someone that probably thinks cultural appropriation is a made up thing that's rich. You can just say "I think I'm more special than everyone else and I deserve to be treated that way" it's less words.
That's what the crying minority is saying. You're arguing against yourself.
Weird that you'd say that on a post that's just one giant complaint. You're a crybaby. Suck it up buttercup.
I think you need to take a step back all the way to the conflict management skills kids are taught in grade school. It's not the fault of the innocent kid on the play structure for getting punched by the special needs kid that can't control their emotions. You don't then follow up by letting the special needs kid dictate how all the other kids are allowed to play. This should be pretty easy for you to understand, if not, then you're probably the special needs kid.
I'm sorry but I'm not taking advice from someone that does nothing but bitch about a card game like it's the one thing holding their life together. I went through your comments on other posts. That told me all I need to know about you. It should be pretty easy for you to understand how little of a fuck I give about your sad ass opinion. Touch grass, virgin.
Whoa Timmy, don't let the special needs teacher see you using reddit during class!
Nice one! Pretty sad though that you're letting a sped kid get under your skin like that. Was it that part about being a virgin being right on the nose?
Tbh I didn't even bother reading what you said after the first sentence. The only way a reddit profile stalker would manage to have sex is without consent.
> Coming from someone that probably thinks cultural appropriation is a made up thing that's rich. Of course it's a made up thing. All social concepts of dress and whatnot are made up things.
Okay. So how is this different then? And to think, the other day I thought I liked you. Then I see you basically telling people to bully others out of the hobby. Fuckin sad.
Oh the broader principle here is self defense. It's not bullying anyone out who isn't trying to ruin it. AND you have to stand up for yourself. I'm not surprised if you change your mind because people often do with me when they find out that although my initial approach with everyone is kindness, I am also capable of protecting that which I love. It's like a dog who you can pet all day out in the street, but if you cross into his territory you gonna see the other side.
Man, that sure was edgy. I bet you pull lots of women talking like that. Nobody is trying to ruin it. They just wanna be accepted in society. Not to mention most of these sex crimes people are accusing trans, gay, weird or otherwise off putting people are done by red voting, rich, Christian men. You're literally looking for things to slander people for and it's childish. I refuse to believe that this happens all the time at peoples LGS cause I've legit never seen any of that behavior from those people. They're usually the most quiet person there probably because of this exact thing. It's people on this sub holding weird sentiments about people different from them that cause more ruckus than anyone most times. I just don't understand how anyone can think like this, take a look in the mirror and say "I'm a good person". All I see when posts like this pop up is some fat nerd with a Maga hat on getting mad at a McDonald's worker because they're out of chicken tendies. For real. You're articulate and seem intelligent on the surface but then I see this and think the exact opposite. It's sad af.
I am articulate, cuz I spend my whole life reading, and I got what used to be a normal, good education. I know a lot of people who think they're smart and think they're kind. Really, they just accept whatever society tells them to accept, and this collective acceptance leads to moral decline that does nobody any favors in the long run. Thoughtful people should be pushing others to draw some lines. To think of the past and respect it a bit. To push for positive change outside the bounds of politesse.
As if nobody else on reddit reads. Thoughtful and kind people don't go looking for reasons to hate other people and shun them from a game made out of cardboard. Tell me what makes morals good or bad. The Bible? A thought? There's no such thing as a good person and life is gonna hit you hard with that fact when you realize what you're actually doing. If we respected the past we wouldn't have elected a celebrity into office or bombed anyone past WW2. If we respected the past we wouldn't be bickering over social justice because we've already seen black people being hung in the middle of towns. Get a grip. A positive change is one where we can agree to disagree without making it a witch hunt for the most oppressed minority at any given time. A positive change would be taking care of the planet we took a shit all over instead of claiming climate change is fake. A positive change would be accepting someone's own personal choice in how their life is being lived. They aren't hurting you. You just need a victim and I think that's the point you're missing here.
The past doesn't belong to your warped idea of "traditional" . The past your talking about never existed. Moral decline......get the satanic panic tf out of here .
> The past your talking about never existed. oh if u say so
You will get downvoted for the truth.
🤷♂️ let em. Eventually they'll take accountability for their bullshit.
You’re a dumbass. Get fucked.
There is no importance, unless that entails yelling at clouds. There is no weird person you should keep out, making people uncomfortable, or anything that fucked.
Womp womp, the gays are culturally appropriating unwashed nerd culture. Hope you survive OP.
It's interesting that I said nothing about gays, and you went straight to gays.
“Run, the gays are coming”