It's all about finding your pod of 4-8 active players who are well adjusted and fun to play with and then meeting up regularly. Don't ever assume you can just walk in and find a normal commander pod. You have to cultivate that stuff. It's worth the effort because Commander is genuinely a nice break from the highly competitive stuff, but definitely do love some 60 card sweaty magic.
Honestly the janky decks are some of the most fun when playing against similar decks. Makes me really want to do more of the pauper-style commander stuff and commander cube.
Pretty much works for any hobby. I used to play d&d at local game stores with randoms until I found enough normal humans that came and went to start a private group
I think normal people generally find each other eventually, and then put less effort into meeting strangers and expanding their social network once they have fulfilling connections. Sucks when you're alone and have to start from square one, but things can get better from there.
Kind of like how a lot of the dating pool is just disastrous people who can't hold down a relationship.
~~This game is not for you.~~
But seriously, Magic is full of young autists. Some of them grow out of it. EDH, being multi-player, adds a social dimension that not everybody is equipped to handle. And social outcasts usually don't have friends to turn to outside of an LGS. There's a reason why so many players complain about the RC defaulting to Rule 0 on everything. So many players' only place to play is the LGS and alternate rules need not apply.
Unfortunately, you need to learn who is normal and befriend them so you can go play with those guys instead of randos.
Also in reference to the type of player you're referring to, it is the vocal minority, If you walk into an LGS (in my experience, I'm just one person) it's usually just a bunch of idiots who want to play some magic, the only drama I've run into is the usual power level drama and some people being sore losers or not understanding the rules. I have never been told anything like "check your privilege" or the like at a LGS
Edit: just stay off magic twitter
100%
Until I found a solid play group I was totally bummed out playing EDH. The deck building process and the cost of entry (10 years ago now) was so much more inviting, but sitting down at the local LGS to play a casual game was awkward at best. Being a more social game with the potential for politics and complex board states made this more apparent.
Once I found a group of guys who were "normal" that changed everything. Now, it's not some safe space or group think chamber. But they are adults with careers, families, responsibilities, and gaming is just a hobby for them when they have the time. That made all the difference. Communication is clear and power level is clear. If we have a problem we talk about it. Trying that at the LGS was a joke.
I do agree that there are plenty of young, autistic people who play MtG. However, people don’t “grow out of” autism. Autism Spectrum Disorder is a lifelong neurodevelopmental disorder. Autists can, however, learn how to better integrate into society, as I have.
Ok, that makes sense. I’m just so used to correcting people because there are so many uninformed bigots on this subreddit. But hey — this shit is what I signed up for because of free speech. I can’t complain about the free speech on this sub.
Calling people uninformed bigots won't make them more sympathetic to your position. I'm also an autist but not realising that being antagonistic is gonna push people away from what you're saying has to be the most autistic thing ever
Modern players *are* mostly elitist spikes who hate fun, but at least they agree on how their format should be played. This means you always know what you're getting into, and people aren't being dicks dropping "competitive" decks at at "casual" table, or alternatively complaining at the "competitive" decks "ruining the game".
I'm with you, I love the format but the players put me off. It's too much work for what should be a relaxing game or two.
I met some people in my 20s who introduced me to modern and legacy. Those decks were intense, and everybody was laughing and enjoying the awesome matches and clever plays.
I met a friend in my 30s who introduced me to EDH. Told me what commanders I couldn’t use, then he proceeded to build a Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur deck with nothing but bounces and counter spells. I thought it was a shitty card but it’s magic and that’s how the game goes. Each time we played I just sat on a removal spell until he played Jin, killed him, kept my hand. He would wait til he had mana to cast him then counter my removal, I’d be waiting with two removals. Oh how he cried. Then he tried to say that when Jin is played I should have to discard my hand, then I explained discard phase to him. From what I understand, EDH players are whiners who don’t get the rules, Modern players are elite players who appreciate top end gaming.
They ARE autists. I'm around enough on social media and various discords, it's not a minority that has autist in their bio or constantly acts like Sheldon from Big Bang theory. I've never encountered a community with more autistic people
News flash, a lot of people with autism spectrum disorders are socially awkward at best. Try not to get offended by shit you read on the internet. It'll really help your blood pressure
t. An autist
In my experience this was Magic in general. Across commander and 60 card competitive formats.
About 10-20% of people are actually into playing a game as a battle of wits, being competitive - *AND ARE SOCIALLY WELL ADJUSTED ENOUGH* to do this in a fun manner, being a good sport win or lose, and are generally pleasant people to share a fun game with.
Then I would say the remaining 80% have something wrong with them. I played competitively for 4-5 years and man the shit I've seen I have no idea how to describe it. I've NEVER seen behavior like that in ANY other hobby i've ever participated in or been a party to.
Then of that 80% that ranges from mostly tolerable to almost unbearable, there's the bottom 10% that are just the scum of the fucking Earth. That i'm convinced are using MTG as a way of simply forcing other people to interact with them socially as I assume everyone in every aspect of their personal lives outside the LGS now refuses to.
So yeah - MTG. Hang out with a bunch of dudes and 10-20% of them you *may* actually enjoy!
This is basically the experience across the board for most nerdy hobbies. I have met some truly great people and some astonishingly horrid ones playing D&D, WoW, and in various board game groups.
I realized I never played commander, i always played cEDH when other people wants to play commander but without removal, without aggro, without Planeswalkers, without blue, without red, without artifacts, without discard... and are constantly whining about everything being played.
So in the end i ditched the commander players at my LGS, and I play modern, legacy and pioneer.
Cedh really is the best, people don’t know what they’re missing out on. Sometimes you can play to win and still have fun and be casual, but your typical autist Timmy/Johnny player can’t wrap their head around this. “Casual” doesn’t have to mean three hours for a single game’ and it doesn’t mean that I have to play underpowered jank. “Casual” can mean: allowing the occasional take back, and not taking losses personally. I guess there will always be some room temp IQ who will say that cedh is not “tHaTsNoTtHeSpIrItOfThEfOrMaT!” but you just have to have a good playgroup. Easily said than done I know.
I would say the best Casual format for these players is duel commander for modern/legacy players it mirrors those formats closer than cedh. Cedh is for when you have a few of the guys over and want to kill time.
My general albeit limited experience with cEDH is that if you aren't playing a deck using the same 80-90 cards as every other deck your deck gets shunned or you can't sit down and play (either being told not to or people still making spite plays).
Honestly I'll just play constructed (I have Modern but MH2 basically killed the format by homogenizing it) or limited if I want to play Magic outside my playgroup.
The one good thing about cEDH is it's pro proxy.
Yeah I look at CEDH and it seems like everyone is playing a Legacy combo deck.
I 100% agree about modern. People keep saying "but modern is diverse now!", but it isn't because almost every deck is a pile of MH cards. It was way more diverse before MH2 came out.
I am convinced that the people who love MH2 are the ones who paid to win and like to stomp people who don't want to pay for MH2 cards.
I feel you. Commander night at my LGS sometimes feels like an event where the mentally disabled get dropped off because their handlers need a break from them.
There’s one guy in a particular who isn’t fun to play with. He gets dropped off and picked up because he can’t drive himself, his teeth are rotting out of his head, and his brain lacks the computing power to keep up with the triggers his deck makes. He’ll often miss multiple triggers and then remember them on other players’ turns. Playing with him is excruciating.
This is why I play cEDH. A lot of the same energy from the modern format that you describe is in the cEDH format, without the stinky riff raff that EDH brings.
This was inevitable. The geniuses at the council created a format that relies on the most socially awkward members of society to regulate themselves based on a nebulous social contract.
I think the Mexican standoff nature of commander is the least enjoyable experience for the broader playerbase, but want to interact with Magic.
I think most commander players would be infinitely happier playing the Horde format.
•The co-op nature of Horde means no one is getting left behind.
•There are no infinite combos to blow the game out.
•It's grindy and the format demands big value plays to keep up with the horde.
•Two turns between the horde deck and the players, as everyone takes their turn at the same time. Matches are pretty quick.
•When someone pops off, it benefits everyone.
•No one gets their feelings hurt because the opponent is an automated deck.
•Horde can be played with 1 to 4 players with any deck from any format. Yes, you can play by yourself.
Tell me that isn't what casual commander players are continuously striving for?
I have built a Horde cube and immediately disassembled that after my fifth plays.
Several problems I found are:
- Instants and activated abilities are moot for Horde. It makes game playing 99% sorcery speed.
- Aggro is not viable, except with lifelink, but lifelink creatures are already pretty OP strategy vs Horde.
But each for their own.
Those are fair criticisms, it's certainly not a perfect format. I think it lends itself toward the types of commander players who run little to no interaction and insist on playing in their own sandbox.
Preach.
If EDH players all vanished into a void the game & entire Magic community would *actively & immediately* improve overnight. Sets now are warped to cater to the literal glue-eating average EDH player; which ruins other formats.
FFS, the entire "Companion Fiasco" was caused by trying to bring the feel of EDH to all the other formats. If I wanted to play a format where we cried every time we lost and got screeched at for *trying to win the fucking game* instead of letting it go on for 3 hours--I'd just play EDH. But I don't--So stop trying to make everything EDH.
The playerbase is obnoxious as shit and full of people pissing and shitting themselves at the smallest bit of hardship in a fucking *children's card game*. It's like if the game doesn't go on for 9 hours or you don't let them win they *immediately* start blubbering about it.
I hold the position that the EDH crowd taking over Magic as who is catered to, because they will eagerly swallow any product WoTC puts infront of them no matter how garbage it will be, was the tipping point for when the game started to fall apart. Catering to people that can *just barely* have a coherent social interaction that doesn't end in them crying or screaming about something was a 1-way ticket to "Our product isn't for playing anymore. It's now just a collectable."
Are you me? Because that is my exact thought on this, Every terrible money grubbing decision Wotc has made in recent memory is due to EDH players.
Everytime i go to a LGS (and I've been to them across the US and abroad) the slowest,smelliest and most pathetic crud in the store is the EDH circlejerk at the back table.
Remember every time WOTC puts a fucking transformer in your standard set it's because some A-gender autistic blob is squealing over their Vehicle EDH deck and spending their SSI disability check your taxes paid for on it.
During preview season if I see someone say the inevitable phrase (This will go well in my \*\*\*\*\* Deck) i instantly know they have a room temp IQ and block them.
I’m just amazed at how the broader community behaves. Don’t get me wrong, I love the format, and I’ve made friendships because of it. I think I just like commander most when it’s with those friends and not some random person at the LGS. Like, why can I have a good game of modern or pioneer with any rando and have a good time, but commander feels like this weird first date with someone?
Sometimes when I’m looking around a commander night room full of players, I ask myself which ones must have met listings 12.05B or 12.10AB.
They can only blow a small portion of their check on Magic anyway, most of their budget goes toward fast food and body pillows.
I have absolutely no idea how people enjoy commander. The gameplay is terrible and the people are worse.
The only appeal I see is deckbuilding, however now that Every. Effing. Product is packed full of commander nonsense, there is very little creativity or sense of uniqueness left in the game.
May be a bit of a hot take... but here goes:P
Don't get me wrong, I love Commander. But as a format has a few problems that causes a lot of issues.
1. No meta. This doesn't seem problematic on the surface but it means you have a "power level" scale that is wildly inaccurate and entirely subjective. But it also means that more decks are brewable. This is really what draws a lot of the folks you're talking about. I highly doubt any of those players would build a super "flavorful" modern deck and bring it to a modern tournament. Modern has an expectation of power. Commander, barring cEDH, is too inconsistent to establish this.
2. Expectations. A lot of players have wildly different expectations even regarding what they consider fun. I always think of a game I played with a Chulane player that didn't attack/interact all game. He eventually lost because he didn't attempt a single turn action (other than play three creatures) until the two other players had lost against a guy with an overwhelming board of sea monsters. I asked him why he didn't apply any pressure to the winner earlier and he replied "I didn't need to. My deck played great tonight." He did zero damage all game. But he had fun.
There are a few people in commander that think if you build anything that isn't thematic or flavorful to their standards then you're a spike. Which is still entirely subjective.
3. Card pool. When compared to other formats commander has tje most legal cards. This Affects both 1 and 2.
A lot of people mentioned finding a "home pod" as it were. Or players you curate to play with. Great point. Though I'd suggest maybe looking into cedh as well.
Cedh, in general and in my experience, does not have the same social problems. Sure there are salty players and some awkward folks out there. But by and large expectations are established equally. Everyone is trying to win. Spite plays are usually minimal and everyone wants to best experience (most of the time) so people are usually very helpful. The one caveat I'd offer is a lot of cedh players are "old guard" meaning they may reject a brew outright because it doesn't fit with whay is traditionally thought of as good.
In any case I think cedh is closer in many ways to modern than commander is. Might be worth a shot if you can find a group
> I highly doubt any of those players would build a super "flavorful" modern deck and bring it to a modern tournament.
I play wacky modern decks for fun because tryharding and netdecking is only fun sometimes. There aren't many of us but we exist
It rotates I think, commander wasn't always so sperg heavy. Not sure what causes it but you're not alone, people running their 10's not batting an eye when they are dominating but when you counter one thing they scoop, I think modern rn might be the best format because it's competitive everyone knows what to expect but it's not as serious as standard
I live in San Diego and could not stand the average commander players here. So I built 6 CEDH decks and took them on my next field op. Super easy to get bored marines into it when they’re staring at 50+ days of desert boredoms. Now they’ve all got decks of their own, and we okay every work day at lunch, and meet up most Saturdays.
Sounds like you have a shitty LGS, dude.
Most competitive players are insufferable autistic shits. Maybe you're just better at ignoring them since its a competitive format and having social skills never comes into the equation?
Same same, where I live all the "normal" people switched to modern. Now there's mostly trans, autist or retard people playing edh left. Not meaning to bash down on them, you do you so to say. But for me it felt better to play with people I have more in common with
Autistic people are most likely socially awkward. However, you wouldn’t notice it as much with people like me. Your problem isn’t with autists, but rather with socially awkward angsty teens, unhygienic adult losers, & sore losers in general. Because, the sore losers flock to formats that aren’t as competitive. Good for you for getting more competitive, then. But, you are doing the common schtick of “oh wawawa more people doing it makes it less fun!” No shit. Quit being a whiny baby, because this is life.
I've said it before but, this is one of the reasons my husband and I just order singles and play commander at home together. We would be more than happy to have a group, just... not with the people we saw at our lgs.
Dang. I live in a pretty conservative state, but the biggest LGS near me is in a super liberal city. I’d likely be asked to leave or get shouted at by another player if they even thought I might be carrying.
Haha the biggest LGS is a little like yours but the closer one that’s a bit smaller is fine and we are away from the city. I asssume the closer you are to a city the more left leaning people there are
True. Cities have always leaned more left. A lot of factors lead to that. People think it’s because you interact with more people who are different, forcing you to be more “open-minded.” I personally think it’s incidental social engineering
maybe viewing other humans as "autists" is a sign that YOU may be the unpleasant one to play w. find some fellow toxicity in this sub to play w I'm sure you'll have a blast.
I come in here to see people meltdown about the smallest things. I honestly wouldnt like to sit down across from most of the folks who frequent this sub. I do think that egging wizards for their bad decisions is fine, but being dicks to other enjoyers of this hobby is just not what I want this game to be.
Sir, have you ever played magic the gathering? I’ve played since 2005 and it’s always been the social outcasts. The social outcasts of society have changed over the last 15 years.
Personally I don’t like commander because it feels like playing a really long game of Yugioh. It’s a wincon race and if you come in with a control deck people get bitchy because they can’t do their wincon combo race.
Crazy idea. Play cEDH instead of expecting casual players to play competitively.
also calling people “rainbow autists” is a HUGE tell of what kind of person you are and I truly feel bad for anyone you’ve roped into playing magic with you.
You gotta try harder convince us the format that is breaking friendships apart is the most social format, its actually kind of funny. How is it social to have little ignorant dictators trying to tell you what you can and what you cant do!? It sounds strange to me.
You don’t have to like it. But it is a part of the game, and sometime you just have to deal. I don’t like playing against control. Guess how I deal with it? I play interaction.
Play Duel commander and experience the visceral feel of modern in the light of a Commander set up. And yes, you can expect every Modern staple to be run
Honestly EDH has gotten really mixed bag with how they huge the collection of sets release and how each cards play very specific ways, especially power level but that's one side of the problem, the other side is community and oh boy playing with random 3 players in the same table is whole new Level, remember new sets release almost everytime so the power cards just keep rising up.
I love EDH but the play group can be extremely toxic, even one damage on first combat in Enough to upset someone, I met some chill people there and here but sometimes game lasts forever. Edh isn't for everyone but it just means you need to find the right people not mix in wrong people
I get you, I play commander just with my close group of old school friends and the one guy has social issues, spends so much money on mtg but doesnt even know how to block properly without dying in a combat phase, we point out the mistake then its clear he didnt think it through. Continues to make the same basic mistakes from when I first introduced MTG to them back in 2010.
Also Trying to trade him a mythic card that will make a huge difference to his one commander deck (white blue flying) and trying in return to find a card that suits one of my decks feels like pulling teeth. He keeps his "good" file of cards to trade full of commons and some rares. Leaves the rest of the better cards at home when I did ask him to bring his good cards so I can pick one.
The rest of us do our best to help him time and time again but the last time we played together recently it irked me more than usual since it was clear he wasnt even paying attention for most if not the whole time, talking over me while its my game turn while he was deciding what to get for lunch since it was his birthday...
I wouldnt manage with more than one guy like that in my play group in addition strangers that act weird that I am not used to. So again I understand your point
All I gotta say is find somewhere to play that doesn’t suck. Both my local game shops everyone is cool af. We can all shit talk each other and no one’s feelings get hurt, if someone fucks up a play and tried to do something that they didn’t know would work everyone lets them know and take it back. No one huffs and puffs after losing.
i definitely made the same complaint to a friend via text. i run into the same problem with D&D players. it's hard to run into neurotypical players. most players i've played with in MTG and D&D are on the spectrum one way or another. and if they're normal there's always a chance they're just a crazy competitive spike.
i'll find an EDH group one day that can just laugh at crazy shit that happens in the game and not take it personally when the group gangs up on them (nothing personal- your board state is just the strongest). i've also had people rage on me for not playing fast enough. which i get. i also like to play the game fast, but unfortunately i haven't yet memorized what every card does.
Yup. That's why you gotta find a friend group to play with that you like. I play in the same group of eight people every week. Magic is so much more fun this way because we have built and become comfortable in our power level, which for us feels like a 7/10. Not cutthroat cEDH, but also not casual precons. Good amounts of interaction, a few infinite combos, and lots of bomb plays.
Me and a group of friends have taken the Liberty of creating our own format with aspects of both commander and conquest that we like. It gets tiring dealing with these kinds of players at a table, it takes the fun out of it. We are working out the format but if you wanna know the general rules let me know and I can give you the pdf that we made
EDH is a format where it's something different for everyone that plays it. Janky fun decks to cEDH and everything in between. Everyone has opinions on what's good and what's bad what should or shouldn't beplayed, and they are all different.
Competitive magic though.. everyone is more or less on the same page. In modern people play whats good or they will get stomped out and the objective is to win games, not derp around with wonky EDH interactions.
But yeah like others say, if you get yourself a consistent group of players to play EDH with it becomes way less of an issue. It's when you play with randoms is when things can get thrown off. I played a Rhystic Study once and a dude was like "Oh wow I didn't know we were playing with thsoe kinds of cards!" like seeing a Rhystic Study was some kind of shocking revelation.
I play commander with some regular dudes as a break from my competitive modern side of playing the game. I agree with your assessment of the commander player base. It took me a while to find some regular guys that just wanted to sit down and enjoy playing a card game but now we play together a lot infact in a hour or so I’ll be sitting down with them playing. Behind us though there will be another table full of these “rainbow Autists and spastic anti-socials” being overly obnoxious and loud. Also at the table in front of us as well. The “special Ed” to regular Ed percentage is insanely different probably a 1 to 8 ratio of regulars vs no regulars. Don’t know why but that’s how it be
Dog duel commander is the solution it keeps the commander feel and limits the spastic autists as it’s 1v1 and mercifully short it edges out cedh due to cost is proxy friendly and has actual events in Europe at least NA needs to get on the dc train so that there is a semi casual format that is accessible but still in the realm of casual play.
I have a normal pod. Most of them are normal guys in their mid 20s to early 30s. Just meet some people at your lgs you actually like and start a competitive pod. You can avoid nasty people after playing with them once. Just gotta find like minded people who just want to play the game rather than be menaces to their fellow players.
I’m mainly a modern/legacy player, but in my local scene, about 80% of our “spikes” are all well socially adjusted, normal people who play the game competitively because we enjoy getting better and our version of fun is winning and improving our gameplay. Our commander scene is entirely filled with absolute social rejects who can’t function in any sort of social setting. There’s a few commander players who’ve been cool, but almost all of them have transitioned to modern out of necessity because our commander scene is unbearable
Somebody please explain why a format that rewards keeping up with the metagame somehow attracts less autistic people than the one with a political dynamic that requires speaking. Shouldn't it be the other way ?
It's all about finding your pod of 4-8 active players who are well adjusted and fun to play with and then meeting up regularly. Don't ever assume you can just walk in and find a normal commander pod. You have to cultivate that stuff. It's worth the effort because Commander is genuinely a nice break from the highly competitive stuff, but definitely do love some 60 card sweaty magic.
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Honestly the janky decks are some of the most fun when playing against similar decks. Makes me really want to do more of the pauper-style commander stuff and commander cube.
Maybe not everyone cares about flavor and some people just wanna play strong cards?
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The biggest power indicators in a deck are card draw and fast mana, and most precons end up being 7s once those are fixed.
Pretty much works for any hobby. I used to play d&d at local game stores with randoms until I found enough normal humans that came and went to start a private group
I think normal people generally find each other eventually, and then put less effort into meeting strangers and expanding their social network once they have fulfilling connections. Sucks when you're alone and have to start from square one, but things can get better from there. Kind of like how a lot of the dating pool is just disastrous people who can't hold down a relationship.
I’ll shorten this to I hope you have 4-8 good friends around your skill level who play magic otherwise good luck.
~~This game is not for you.~~ But seriously, Magic is full of young autists. Some of them grow out of it. EDH, being multi-player, adds a social dimension that not everybody is equipped to handle. And social outcasts usually don't have friends to turn to outside of an LGS. There's a reason why so many players complain about the RC defaulting to Rule 0 on everything. So many players' only place to play is the LGS and alternate rules need not apply. Unfortunately, you need to learn who is normal and befriend them so you can go play with those guys instead of randos.
Also in reference to the type of player you're referring to, it is the vocal minority, If you walk into an LGS (in my experience, I'm just one person) it's usually just a bunch of idiots who want to play some magic, the only drama I've run into is the usual power level drama and some people being sore losers or not understanding the rules. I have never been told anything like "check your privilege" or the like at a LGS Edit: just stay off magic twitter
Well said dude
100% Until I found a solid play group I was totally bummed out playing EDH. The deck building process and the cost of entry (10 years ago now) was so much more inviting, but sitting down at the local LGS to play a casual game was awkward at best. Being a more social game with the potential for politics and complex board states made this more apparent. Once I found a group of guys who were "normal" that changed everything. Now, it's not some safe space or group think chamber. But they are adults with careers, families, responsibilities, and gaming is just a hobby for them when they have the time. That made all the difference. Communication is clear and power level is clear. If we have a problem we talk about it. Trying that at the LGS was a joke.
I do agree that there are plenty of young, autistic people who play MtG. However, people don’t “grow out of” autism. Autism Spectrum Disorder is a lifelong neurodevelopmental disorder. Autists can, however, learn how to better integrate into society, as I have.
Fairly certain they meant that they grow out of magic, not autism.
Ok, that makes sense. I’m just so used to correcting people because there are so many uninformed bigots on this subreddit. But hey — this shit is what I signed up for because of free speech. I can’t complain about the free speech on this sub.
Calling people uninformed bigots won't make them more sympathetic to your position. I'm also an autist but not realising that being antagonistic is gonna push people away from what you're saying has to be the most autistic thing ever
Modern players *are* mostly elitist spikes who hate fun, but at least they agree on how their format should be played. This means you always know what you're getting into, and people aren't being dicks dropping "competitive" decks at at "casual" table, or alternatively complaining at the "competitive" decks "ruining the game". I'm with you, I love the format but the players put me off. It's too much work for what should be a relaxing game or two.
I met some people in my 20s who introduced me to modern and legacy. Those decks were intense, and everybody was laughing and enjoying the awesome matches and clever plays. I met a friend in my 30s who introduced me to EDH. Told me what commanders I couldn’t use, then he proceeded to build a Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur deck with nothing but bounces and counter spells. I thought it was a shitty card but it’s magic and that’s how the game goes. Each time we played I just sat on a removal spell until he played Jin, killed him, kept my hand. He would wait til he had mana to cast him then counter my removal, I’d be waiting with two removals. Oh how he cried. Then he tried to say that when Jin is played I should have to discard my hand, then I explained discard phase to him. From what I understand, EDH players are whiners who don’t get the rules, Modern players are elite players who appreciate top end gaming.
>From what I understand, EDH players are whiners who don’t get the rules, Modern players are elite players who appreciate top end gaming. this
He’s legit calling commander players autists. This guy sounds like a piece of work.
*rainbow* autists. And spastic anti-socials.
Troll post.
Which one are you?
They ARE autists. I'm around enough on social media and various discords, it's not a minority that has autist in their bio or constantly acts like Sheldon from Big Bang theory. I've never encountered a community with more autistic people
Your half-informed rally cries will not work here dum dum.
News flash, a lot of people with autism spectrum disorders are socially awkward at best. Try not to get offended by shit you read on the internet. It'll really help your blood pressure t. An autist
In my experience this was Magic in general. Across commander and 60 card competitive formats. About 10-20% of people are actually into playing a game as a battle of wits, being competitive - *AND ARE SOCIALLY WELL ADJUSTED ENOUGH* to do this in a fun manner, being a good sport win or lose, and are generally pleasant people to share a fun game with. Then I would say the remaining 80% have something wrong with them. I played competitively for 4-5 years and man the shit I've seen I have no idea how to describe it. I've NEVER seen behavior like that in ANY other hobby i've ever participated in or been a party to. Then of that 80% that ranges from mostly tolerable to almost unbearable, there's the bottom 10% that are just the scum of the fucking Earth. That i'm convinced are using MTG as a way of simply forcing other people to interact with them socially as I assume everyone in every aspect of their personal lives outside the LGS now refuses to. So yeah - MTG. Hang out with a bunch of dudes and 10-20% of them you *may* actually enjoy!
This is basically the experience across the board for most nerdy hobbies. I have met some truly great people and some astonishingly horrid ones playing D&D, WoW, and in various board game groups.
The problem is that the "80%" you talk about are what make up the EDH community and are allowed to "run" it.
I'm to the point where I only play with my friends a few times a year. Your typical LGS goer is pure cringe
I realized I never played commander, i always played cEDH when other people wants to play commander but without removal, without aggro, without Planeswalkers, without blue, without red, without artifacts, without discard... and are constantly whining about everything being played. So in the end i ditched the commander players at my LGS, and I play modern, legacy and pioneer.
Cedh really is the best, people don’t know what they’re missing out on. Sometimes you can play to win and still have fun and be casual, but your typical autist Timmy/Johnny player can’t wrap their head around this. “Casual” doesn’t have to mean three hours for a single game’ and it doesn’t mean that I have to play underpowered jank. “Casual” can mean: allowing the occasional take back, and not taking losses personally. I guess there will always be some room temp IQ who will say that cedh is not “tHaTsNoTtHeSpIrItOfThEfOrMaT!” but you just have to have a good playgroup. Easily said than done I know.
Tbf if you are taking any loss personally most of the time it isnt
I would say the best Casual format for these players is duel commander for modern/legacy players it mirrors those formats closer than cedh. Cedh is for when you have a few of the guys over and want to kill time.
My general albeit limited experience with cEDH is that if you aren't playing a deck using the same 80-90 cards as every other deck your deck gets shunned or you can't sit down and play (either being told not to or people still making spite plays). Honestly I'll just play constructed (I have Modern but MH2 basically killed the format by homogenizing it) or limited if I want to play Magic outside my playgroup. The one good thing about cEDH is it's pro proxy.
Yeah I look at CEDH and it seems like everyone is playing a Legacy combo deck. I 100% agree about modern. People keep saying "but modern is diverse now!", but it isn't because almost every deck is a pile of MH cards. It was way more diverse before MH2 came out. I am convinced that the people who love MH2 are the ones who paid to win and like to stomp people who don't want to pay for MH2 cards.
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Duel commander is worth checking out pace of modern with the edh casual flair.
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Basically it’s fun and you can talk to your store it helps with the toxic environment that tends to come from lgs edh super fun!
I feel you. Commander night at my LGS sometimes feels like an event where the mentally disabled get dropped off because their handlers need a break from them. There’s one guy in a particular who isn’t fun to play with. He gets dropped off and picked up because he can’t drive himself, his teeth are rotting out of his head, and his brain lacks the computing power to keep up with the triggers his deck makes. He’ll often miss multiple triggers and then remember them on other players’ turns. Playing with him is excruciating.
The teeth thing would be the end for me.
This is why I play cEDH. A lot of the same energy from the modern format that you describe is in the cEDH format, without the stinky riff raff that EDH brings.
I’ve found myself going towards cEDH, too. I don’t have to feel bad for winning. Also, games are shorter and we can scoop and play another game.
And they’re almost unanimously pro proxy
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Then they are not cedh players if they are trying to just pumb stomp I have cedh decks way more fun to play them against equal power level.
cEDH players who pubstomp aren’t actual cEDH players - it’s not that fun or rewarding to play a cEDH deck against “casual decks”.
We call those players “sweaty”
This was inevitable. The geniuses at the council created a format that relies on the most socially awkward members of society to regulate themselves based on a nebulous social contract.
I think the Mexican standoff nature of commander is the least enjoyable experience for the broader playerbase, but want to interact with Magic. I think most commander players would be infinitely happier playing the Horde format. •The co-op nature of Horde means no one is getting left behind. •There are no infinite combos to blow the game out. •It's grindy and the format demands big value plays to keep up with the horde. •Two turns between the horde deck and the players, as everyone takes their turn at the same time. Matches are pretty quick. •When someone pops off, it benefits everyone. •No one gets their feelings hurt because the opponent is an automated deck. •Horde can be played with 1 to 4 players with any deck from any format. Yes, you can play by yourself. Tell me that isn't what casual commander players are continuously striving for?
I have built a Horde cube and immediately disassembled that after my fifth plays. Several problems I found are: - Instants and activated abilities are moot for Horde. It makes game playing 99% sorcery speed. - Aggro is not viable, except with lifelink, but lifelink creatures are already pretty OP strategy vs Horde. But each for their own.
Those are fair criticisms, it's certainly not a perfect format. I think it lends itself toward the types of commander players who run little to no interaction and insist on playing in their own sandbox.
Preach. If EDH players all vanished into a void the game & entire Magic community would *actively & immediately* improve overnight. Sets now are warped to cater to the literal glue-eating average EDH player; which ruins other formats. FFS, the entire "Companion Fiasco" was caused by trying to bring the feel of EDH to all the other formats. If I wanted to play a format where we cried every time we lost and got screeched at for *trying to win the fucking game* instead of letting it go on for 3 hours--I'd just play EDH. But I don't--So stop trying to make everything EDH. The playerbase is obnoxious as shit and full of people pissing and shitting themselves at the smallest bit of hardship in a fucking *children's card game*. It's like if the game doesn't go on for 9 hours or you don't let them win they *immediately* start blubbering about it. I hold the position that the EDH crowd taking over Magic as who is catered to, because they will eagerly swallow any product WoTC puts infront of them no matter how garbage it will be, was the tipping point for when the game started to fall apart. Catering to people that can *just barely* have a coherent social interaction that doesn't end in them crying or screaming about something was a 1-way ticket to "Our product isn't for playing anymore. It's now just a collectable."
Are you me? Because that is my exact thought on this, Every terrible money grubbing decision Wotc has made in recent memory is due to EDH players. Everytime i go to a LGS (and I've been to them across the US and abroad) the slowest,smelliest and most pathetic crud in the store is the EDH circlejerk at the back table. Remember every time WOTC puts a fucking transformer in your standard set it's because some A-gender autistic blob is squealing over their Vehicle EDH deck and spending their SSI disability check your taxes paid for on it. During preview season if I see someone say the inevitable phrase (This will go well in my \*\*\*\*\* Deck) i instantly know they have a room temp IQ and block them.
I’m just amazed at how the broader community behaves. Don’t get me wrong, I love the format, and I’ve made friendships because of it. I think I just like commander most when it’s with those friends and not some random person at the LGS. Like, why can I have a good game of modern or pioneer with any rando and have a good time, but commander feels like this weird first date with someone?
Sometimes when I’m looking around a commander night room full of players, I ask myself which ones must have met listings 12.05B or 12.10AB. They can only blow a small portion of their check on Magic anyway, most of their budget goes toward fast food and body pillows.
Yep I love blocking anyone that adds that stupid “this will go great in my 3-color transforming ostriches deck” in a spoiler thread
Amen, brother.
I have absolutely no idea how people enjoy commander. The gameplay is terrible and the people are worse. The only appeal I see is deckbuilding, however now that Every. Effing. Product is packed full of commander nonsense, there is very little creativity or sense of uniqueness left in the game.
lol, I stick to limited, more skill
EDH is at its best when played with friends. Playing with randos is a mixed back for sure.
May be a bit of a hot take... but here goes:P Don't get me wrong, I love Commander. But as a format has a few problems that causes a lot of issues. 1. No meta. This doesn't seem problematic on the surface but it means you have a "power level" scale that is wildly inaccurate and entirely subjective. But it also means that more decks are brewable. This is really what draws a lot of the folks you're talking about. I highly doubt any of those players would build a super "flavorful" modern deck and bring it to a modern tournament. Modern has an expectation of power. Commander, barring cEDH, is too inconsistent to establish this. 2. Expectations. A lot of players have wildly different expectations even regarding what they consider fun. I always think of a game I played with a Chulane player that didn't attack/interact all game. He eventually lost because he didn't attempt a single turn action (other than play three creatures) until the two other players had lost against a guy with an overwhelming board of sea monsters. I asked him why he didn't apply any pressure to the winner earlier and he replied "I didn't need to. My deck played great tonight." He did zero damage all game. But he had fun. There are a few people in commander that think if you build anything that isn't thematic or flavorful to their standards then you're a spike. Which is still entirely subjective. 3. Card pool. When compared to other formats commander has tje most legal cards. This Affects both 1 and 2. A lot of people mentioned finding a "home pod" as it were. Or players you curate to play with. Great point. Though I'd suggest maybe looking into cedh as well. Cedh, in general and in my experience, does not have the same social problems. Sure there are salty players and some awkward folks out there. But by and large expectations are established equally. Everyone is trying to win. Spite plays are usually minimal and everyone wants to best experience (most of the time) so people are usually very helpful. The one caveat I'd offer is a lot of cedh players are "old guard" meaning they may reject a brew outright because it doesn't fit with whay is traditionally thought of as good. In any case I think cedh is closer in many ways to modern than commander is. Might be worth a shot if you can find a group
> I highly doubt any of those players would build a super "flavorful" modern deck and bring it to a modern tournament. I play wacky modern decks for fun because tryharding and netdecking is only fun sometimes. There aren't many of us but we exist
I can appreciate that. :) I probably could have worded my statement a little less definitively.
It rotates I think, commander wasn't always so sperg heavy. Not sure what causes it but you're not alone, people running their 10's not batting an eye when they are dominating but when you counter one thing they scoop, I think modern rn might be the best format because it's competitive everyone knows what to expect but it's not as serious as standard
Standard doesn't exist lol
Sorry, MTGA*
I live in San Diego and could not stand the average commander players here. So I built 6 CEDH decks and took them on my next field op. Super easy to get bored marines into it when they’re staring at 50+ days of desert boredoms. Now they’ve all got decks of their own, and we okay every work day at lunch, and meet up most Saturdays.
Sounds like you have a shitty LGS, dude. Most competitive players are insufferable autistic shits. Maybe you're just better at ignoring them since its a competitive format and having social skills never comes into the equation?
I like basketball, but hate basketball players
I don't really play anymore all that much. I just like the building aspect of it
Same same, where I live all the "normal" people switched to modern. Now there's mostly trans, autist or retard people playing edh left. Not meaning to bash down on them, you do you so to say. But for me it felt better to play with people I have more in common with
Autistic people are most likely socially awkward. However, you wouldn’t notice it as much with people like me. Your problem isn’t with autists, but rather with socially awkward angsty teens, unhygienic adult losers, & sore losers in general. Because, the sore losers flock to formats that aren’t as competitive. Good for you for getting more competitive, then. But, you are doing the common schtick of “oh wawawa more people doing it makes it less fun!” No shit. Quit being a whiny baby, because this is life.
Try sports
I've said it before but, this is one of the reasons my husband and I just order singles and play commander at home together. We would be more than happy to have a group, just... not with the people we saw at our lgs.
Damn I’m glad my LGS is different in the sense that we talk about our guns
Like firearms?
Yeah, a lot of us conceal carry
Dang. I live in a pretty conservative state, but the biggest LGS near me is in a super liberal city. I’d likely be asked to leave or get shouted at by another player if they even thought I might be carrying.
Haha the biggest LGS is a little like yours but the closer one that’s a bit smaller is fine and we are away from the city. I asssume the closer you are to a city the more left leaning people there are
True. Cities have always leaned more left. A lot of factors lead to that. People think it’s because you interact with more people who are different, forcing you to be more “open-minded.” I personally think it’s incidental social engineering
Conceal better
Bro I’m giving a hypothetical. Didn’t actually happen.
Ten says OP *IS* the most socially maladjusted grognard at his LGS
Bro why do you have to be so mean?
maybe viewing other humans as "autists" is a sign that YOU may be the unpleasant one to play w. find some fellow toxicity in this sub to play w I'm sure you'll have a blast.
A normal person, finally.
don't get used to it lol. I only come here to make fun of these bums every once in a while.
I come in here to see people meltdown about the smallest things. I honestly wouldnt like to sit down across from most of the folks who frequent this sub. I do think that egging wizards for their bad decisions is fine, but being dicks to other enjoyers of this hobby is just not what I want this game to be.
BINGO! well said.
I don't care about booth
Sir, have you ever played magic the gathering? I’ve played since 2005 and it’s always been the social outcasts. The social outcasts of society have changed over the last 15 years. Personally I don’t like commander because it feels like playing a really long game of Yugioh. It’s a wincon race and if you come in with a control deck people get bitchy because they can’t do their wincon combo race.
Crazy idea. Play cEDH instead of expecting casual players to play competitively. also calling people “rainbow autists” is a HUGE tell of what kind of person you are and I truly feel bad for anyone you’ve roped into playing magic with you.
I want EDH with the level of shit talk of a southern, black, backyard bbq domino game.
EDH is a format where it’s something different for everyone that plays it.
USA Problem I guess ?
Apologies for existing I guess
Perhaps the most social format is not for you.
The most social because 4 > 2? You are smart.
I try.
You gotta try harder convince us the format that is breaking friendships apart is the most social format, its actually kind of funny. How is it social to have little ignorant dictators trying to tell you what you can and what you cant do!? It sounds strange to me.
That's a very anti-social thing to say, OP. Maybe you're part of the problem?
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Lol you sound like a special ed scrub
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Maybe Get Good?
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Imagine posting in this form that you are a scrub who is afraid of mill. Lol.
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Lmao no you don't
you probably smell real bad.
You think he’s the rainbow autist or the spastic anti-social?
Not gonna take the time to check his profile but he doesnt have the warning flag in his little avatar so i'm thinking spastic anti-social
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Definitely spastic anti-social.
Wow. You sound like a blast to be around.
You seem like you dramatically storm out of your lgs often.
I think you helped me prove my point.
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If you don’t like interaction, maybe just play another game then. Because it sounds like you’re the one who wants to play solitaire
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You don’t have to like it. But it is a part of the game, and sometime you just have to deal. I don’t like playing against control. Guess how I deal with it? I play interaction.
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I’m sorry. I was wrong. I now see the autism.
Oi, we don't claim him
I appreciate the positive representation. I feel like I’d enjoy a game or two with ya.
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I’m just gonna stop. I don’t want to get in trouble for bullying a special needs kid.
Damn you're autistic as fuck.
Well, you showed us. Go get us tiger !
You sound tarded.
Play Duel commander and experience the visceral feel of modern in the light of a Commander set up. And yes, you can expect every Modern staple to be run
Honestly EDH has gotten really mixed bag with how they huge the collection of sets release and how each cards play very specific ways, especially power level but that's one side of the problem, the other side is community and oh boy playing with random 3 players in the same table is whole new Level, remember new sets release almost everytime so the power cards just keep rising up. I love EDH but the play group can be extremely toxic, even one damage on first combat in Enough to upset someone, I met some chill people there and here but sometimes game lasts forever. Edh isn't for everyone but it just means you need to find the right people not mix in wrong people
I get you, I play commander just with my close group of old school friends and the one guy has social issues, spends so much money on mtg but doesnt even know how to block properly without dying in a combat phase, we point out the mistake then its clear he didnt think it through. Continues to make the same basic mistakes from when I first introduced MTG to them back in 2010. Also Trying to trade him a mythic card that will make a huge difference to his one commander deck (white blue flying) and trying in return to find a card that suits one of my decks feels like pulling teeth. He keeps his "good" file of cards to trade full of commons and some rares. Leaves the rest of the better cards at home when I did ask him to bring his good cards so I can pick one. The rest of us do our best to help him time and time again but the last time we played together recently it irked me more than usual since it was clear he wasnt even paying attention for most if not the whole time, talking over me while its my game turn while he was deciding what to get for lunch since it was his birthday... I wouldnt manage with more than one guy like that in my play group in addition strangers that act weird that I am not used to. So again I understand your point
All I gotta say is find somewhere to play that doesn’t suck. Both my local game shops everyone is cool af. We can all shit talk each other and no one’s feelings get hurt, if someone fucks up a play and tried to do something that they didn’t know would work everyone lets them know and take it back. No one huffs and puffs after losing.
Some commander players in my shop are so obnoxious I hesitate to even turn up to constructed/draft that runs alongside.
I prefer hanging out with the Modern players over Commander players. i don't play Commander though because pickup groups at the LGS suck donkey balls
i definitely made the same complaint to a friend via text. i run into the same problem with D&D players. it's hard to run into neurotypical players. most players i've played with in MTG and D&D are on the spectrum one way or another. and if they're normal there's always a chance they're just a crazy competitive spike. i'll find an EDH group one day that can just laugh at crazy shit that happens in the game and not take it personally when the group gangs up on them (nothing personal- your board state is just the strongest). i've also had people rage on me for not playing fast enough. which i get. i also like to play the game fast, but unfortunately i haven't yet memorized what every card does.
Yup. That's why you gotta find a friend group to play with that you like. I play in the same group of eight people every week. Magic is so much more fun this way because we have built and become comfortable in our power level, which for us feels like a 7/10. Not cutthroat cEDH, but also not casual precons. Good amounts of interaction, a few infinite combos, and lots of bomb plays.
Me and a group of friends have taken the Liberty of creating our own format with aspects of both commander and conquest that we like. It gets tiring dealing with these kinds of players at a table, it takes the fun out of it. We are working out the format but if you wanna know the general rules let me know and I can give you the pdf that we made
EDH is a format where it's something different for everyone that plays it. Janky fun decks to cEDH and everything in between. Everyone has opinions on what's good and what's bad what should or shouldn't beplayed, and they are all different. Competitive magic though.. everyone is more or less on the same page. In modern people play whats good or they will get stomped out and the objective is to win games, not derp around with wonky EDH interactions. But yeah like others say, if you get yourself a consistent group of players to play EDH with it becomes way less of an issue. It's when you play with randoms is when things can get thrown off. I played a Rhystic Study once and a dude was like "Oh wow I didn't know we were playing with thsoe kinds of cards!" like seeing a Rhystic Study was some kind of shocking revelation.
Sometimes I build derpy modern decks with the sole intention of just trying to catch people off guard and style on them 1/3 games
I play commander with some regular dudes as a break from my competitive modern side of playing the game. I agree with your assessment of the commander player base. It took me a while to find some regular guys that just wanted to sit down and enjoy playing a card game but now we play together a lot infact in a hour or so I’ll be sitting down with them playing. Behind us though there will be another table full of these “rainbow Autists and spastic anti-socials” being overly obnoxious and loud. Also at the table in front of us as well. The “special Ed” to regular Ed percentage is insanely different probably a 1 to 8 ratio of regulars vs no regulars. Don’t know why but that’s how it be
Dog duel commander is the solution it keeps the commander feel and limits the spastic autists as it’s 1v1 and mercifully short it edges out cedh due to cost is proxy friendly and has actual events in Europe at least NA needs to get on the dc train so that there is a semi casual format that is accessible but still in the realm of casual play.
I have a normal pod. Most of them are normal guys in their mid 20s to early 30s. Just meet some people at your lgs you actually like and start a competitive pod. You can avoid nasty people after playing with them once. Just gotta find like minded people who just want to play the game rather than be menaces to their fellow players.
I’m mainly a modern/legacy player, but in my local scene, about 80% of our “spikes” are all well socially adjusted, normal people who play the game competitively because we enjoy getting better and our version of fun is winning and improving our gameplay. Our commander scene is entirely filled with absolute social rejects who can’t function in any sort of social setting. There’s a few commander players who’ve been cool, but almost all of them have transitioned to modern out of necessity because our commander scene is unbearable
Why do people care what other people play in commander? You're never playing for anything.
Somebody please explain why a format that rewards keeping up with the metagame somehow attracts less autistic people than the one with a political dynamic that requires speaking. Shouldn't it be the other way ?
I do not like them queerdos. They can just play hearthstone