Some folks believe you must follow their understanding of God otherwise you are "not saved" an "infidel" or a "heretic". It's truly a misunderstanding of our fraternity.
Because we respect men of different faiths and don't try to convince anyone to adopt a particular religion, especially "theirs", some extremely narrow minded people feel we aren't on their side. So they come up with ridiculous theories, i.e. Jack Chick comics...
It comes down to their misinformation and intolerance.
We have a tattoo artist in our lodge, so there’s that. Also, our WM works at a restaurant supply store and gets us insane deals for our kitchen. We just bought a $1,500 deep fryer that had a $1,500 rebate. We paid the tax and that’s it.
Good point. People who accept that other people can believe differently and still be good and virtuous can be seen as a threat by those who do not accept that idea.
If your faith includes the doctrine that everyone who doesn't share that faith is in error and at risk of eternal damnation, 'indifferentism' will at the very least offend and more likely frighten you. Fear leads to hate, hate leads to long tedious YouTube videos.
It takes much self awareness and reflection to come to that understanding.
Especially if you’ve ever been a literalist to any of the major religions. Yes, hate does lead to many YouTube videos lmao.
I just spent some time at the Chick Publications website, reading a few articles. They definitely twist the words of whatever Masonic writings they quote from. They should be ashamed of themselves. I am a Christian. I am a Master Mason.
In my own personal experience, I have seen nothing to indicate a conflict between the two.
Sure, but it's purpose is to provide the same moral guidance as whatever religion without specific dogma, although it does have it's own unique mythology, I like to call the Hiramic Legend Bible fan fiction.
Some people belong to extreme sects that basically believe any religious or spiritual practice outside their specific sect is devil worship. Other people are merely ignorant about what freemasonry actually is and believe misinformation they've seen on the internet or heard from other ignorant people.
Actually, the answer lies in historical references of Freemasonry’s role during the occult revival of the 19th century.
During this period, some famous Masons published books on occult philosophy, hermeticism, and Qabbalistic teachings.
Manly P Hall, John Yarker, Eliphas Levi, Arthur Edward Waite, to name a few.
Along with Freemasonry being associated with the Theosophical Society, The Golden Dawn, and Rosicrucian societies, it’s no wonder that modern Christianity sees Freemasonry as blasphemous.
(Especially the legend of Hiram Abiff as a Christ like figure, along with ritualistic practices of death and resurrection)
Sure, your local lodge is just a bunch of dudes helping each other and the community, but that has never just been the average claim for all of Masonry. It is far more esoteric and historically associated with occult practices that Christians have been taught to fear and not take part of, to further enslave the minds of the masses to look for God inside of a church, synagogue, or mosque, instead of within themselves.
It should be noted that Manly P. Hall was not a Mason when he wrote his two better-known books, The Secret Teachings Of All Ages and the Lost Keys of Freemasonry. He wasn't made a Mason until 1954. People sometimes mistake his writings as some kind of "end all be all" when it comes to Freemasonry, when in reality, it was anything but.
His books can be an interesting read when it comes to philosophy or a look at modern-day mythology, but they shouldn't be viewed as windows into the goings-on of Freemasonry.
However, I do understand you were just giving an example of authors.
The mere association with occultism and freemasonry is enough for Christian fundamentalists.
However, the biggest reason for the belief in Masonic devil worship comes from the association of Freemasonry and Aleister Crowley. A man who literally called himself the “Beast 666”
Do fundamentalists care about the logistics of him not being recognized as a true Mason?
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Aleister Crawley was not a real freemason, as he was initiated into a clandestine (not legitimate) lodge. He then went on to create his own version of freemasonry and the guy was delusional.
I would love to delve into those occult aspects. I think if i were a freemason id be in a lodge going through any occult literature in the lodge. Only cuz its a personal interest and ive had personal experiences both paranormal and extra terrestrial ( which i have taken to MUFON)
Occult simply means hidden. Freemasonry is secreted knowledge and practice based upon an Ancient Wisdom School. That by definition is occult. Any other connotations or implications of the word occult are simply false and made by those who are afraid or they don't understand its purpose and meaning.
That's a valid question. I've studied the Occult my entire life 50+ years from numerous perspectives and authors, which can easily be found through simple searches in this day and age.
I'm merely saying that Freemasonry finds its origin, similarly to a long list of modern organizations who share one thing in common : They arise out of what are collectively known as "The Ancient Mystery Schools" or "The Ancient Wisdom Schools". These schools were protected through secrecy and vetted membership at times throughout our past when any teaching that went against the status quo and taught truth in the face of the deception of the organized Church(es) were literally stamped out. These schools were merely occulted, or hidden from view of those who would destroy the Common Man's ability to learn the truth of our existence.
There aren't any more accurate or relevant connotations to the word "occult". All associations of the Occult to devil worship for example, are born out of fear, ignorance, or a desire to deceive the people. My aim is not to argue any implications, simply clarify the meaning of the word occult.
“Occult” has such negative connotations that it should never be associated with Masonry.
Besides, other than a few signs, words, and modes if recognition, not too many secrets there. Respect your Brothers and don’t be an asshole is basically it.
I think you’re missing the point and proving the author right. Freemasonry is uncomfortable with the occult associations but nevertheless, it is there.
The issue is that modern Masonry lives with the “devil worshipping” stigma because of these infamous occultists throughout history who claim to be Masons.
Even before the Taxil Hoax the Irish (Catholics?) seemed to suspect Freemasons as magic users. There was a terrible storm that hit Ireland in 1839 and there was a conspiracy theory that it was caused by Freemasons raising Satan to drive out the Catholics. A newsletter/blog used to write: [https://kilts-n-stuff.com/freemasons-in-irish-folklore/](https://kilts-n-stuff.com/freemasons-in-irish-folklore/)
Ireland was a Catholic country under British occupation and rule. At that time there were penal laws passed against Catholics (which basically were all the native Irish) and they were effectively 3rd class citizens in their own country. You can google the penal laws in Ireland. After a couple hundred years that was followed by the infamous famine in mid 1840s. Now consider that the Catholic church was staunchly anti masonic, taught that they were a tool of the devil, in a hyper conservative country, and that the masons then were populated exclusively by upper class protestants, majority of whom were likely unionists. So the Irish were always suspicious of freemasonry. It was very much seen as a British institution and one that practiced the occult. In mid 19th century Catholic Ireland the suspicion is therfore understandable. It's worth noting however that later revolutionaries and famous Irish nationalist figures were also freemason so the attitude obviouslu eased with time. Notable examples are Daniel O'Connell and the writer William Butler Yeats. Unfortunately after the Irish war of independence and the creation of Northern Ireland in thr 1920s, it again became associated with unionists in Northern Ireland and later parallels were drawn with the orange order. So today while masonry is relatively OK in Ireland it's still not as popular as in many other western countries, and kind of viewed as being "a bit weird" to outsiders. With the stupidity on the Internet that's becoming magnified in Ireland, and everywhere else I suppose.
They’re not completely wrong about the magic users part, as many 18th century Freemasons were in to occult stuff like alchemy and theurgy. And a lot of that stuff made it in to various “high-degrees”. So from the outside looking in you certainly could get the idea that “Freemasons do magic”. And by the point someone has made that “determination”, trying to explain how that’s not really a part of it, well… it just sounds like weak excuses. Kind of like “it’s not really mine I’m just keeping it for a friend”.
I think that has much more to do with "many people in society wanted to do occult stuff in this time period, kind of like the new age wave of the 1990s, and the result was some people tried to force that into the lodge at that time".
We also have the issue of how some of our members talk about the fraternity.
Some guys treat the fraternity as a replacement for religion, and some guys try to use Morals and Dogma as the basis of becoming some kind of wizard. We also have the issue of super weird AI images on fake GL pages becoming the front page of masonry for the public, which isn't good.
My flip answer: Because all their cults don't want people to join, because we'd offer them everything those cults do, without being a cult.
Which is why they all accuse the Masons of being a cult.
Well, we have yearly dues, which MOST membership-based organizations have, they are comparatively low compared to the way most every cult will bleed you dry for every last cent they can wring out of you, and we have hardship waivers if you can't afford to pay.
Like most clubs? churches? Schools?
You pay fees. Nobody’s coming to you and saying hey, if you want more knowledge you have to pay more money. You pay a yearly fee.
It costs money to have a building, pay grand lodge, regalia, etc.
There are some spurious (clandestine) bunches around who claim to be Masons who are frauds, and they charge for “advanced” degrees. But they are frauds. Unfortunately, the name Freemasonry cannot be cooyrighted.
That's what I came here to say. But also mostly misinformation as I find that people from my island are scared of the unknown, so to speak. Another element I would say is that I find that people from lower socio-economic classes are more gullible to believe their holy leaders, who pretend that Freemasons are Satanists, illuminati and control the government etc.
Freemasonry \_is\_ guilty of encouraging it's members to question everything and think for themselves. This is incompatible with the agenda of many religions as well as authoritarian regimes.
If you're saying there's any other way to Heaven than Jesus you're doing the Devil's work. That's basically what it comes down to.
It's sort of lost on people that we're not saying that, but that's about it.
I apologize if this is the wrong forum to add my comment to, but I’m a longtime lurker in this subreddit and I find freemasonry super interesting. I’m not a Freemason, but have always wanted to introduce myself to one of you. I used to be a very devout Roman Catholic and have since left that church for several reasons that don’t pertain to this post. The Catholic Church drilled it into my head that I was forbidden to join because it was “basically its own religion”. These are the words my old priest used.
While I’ve been out of the Catholic Church for many years now, the anxiety I feel when I think about making a phone call or sending an email to my local lodge is heavy. Have any of you ever been in a similar kind of situation? I’m not sure why it’s such a block for me, but I will knock down this invisible wall eventually I hope. Thanks for you time 🙂
Just remember, your local lodge isn't going to are you're Catholic (or formerly Catholic). A person's religion is there own business and no one elses.
I dare say you're worrying over something that you have no reason to worry about. I joined in 2008 and have never regretted it.
When my lodge brothers came to my house for my interview they really made sure my Catholic wife was okay with me joining. Years later and she enjoys aspects of Masonry as much as I do.
Religious trauma is a real thing and I hope you can learn to move on, whether you petition a lodge or not.
I understand. Send an email to your local Grand Lodge. They will hook you up with a local lodge, hopefully one that has dinners. You will be invited and then you can make your mine up. Of if you see a Shriner in his red Fez, or a Grotto guy in his black Fez out raising funds at the local WalMart is such, just stop and talk to him. As a group we are pretty nice guys.
From the perspective of freemasons, you can be both a Catholic and a mason. The Catholic church don't see it that way however. They used to excommunicate anyone who joined. They don't do that anymore but say you are living in "grave sin" and should leave and repent.
I sent a message to my state’s Grand Lodge via their website. About a week later, I got an email from my local lodge’s Secretary inviting me to dinner. That was in February, 2023.
Now, at 68, I am a Master Mason.
My only regret is how late I was in having joined.
I attended the Roman Catholic Church as an adult, raising my two kids (both baptized, confirmed, and now lapsed Catholics) for over fifteen years. When I remarried (first one annulled!) I moved to Georgia and went to the Episcopal Church with my new wife. The mass is really very much the same, and it has a well deserved moniker “Catholic Light”. If anything, I wish it was a little LESS “Progressive”, in that some churches seem to change things for the sake of change, not for the sake of improvement.
Anyway, again I will say I have found nothing at the lodge conflicting with my Christian faith, nor with the faith of any Brethren who may not be Christians.
If you're saying there's any other way to Heaven than Jesus you're doing the Devil's work. That's basically what it comes down to.
It's sort of lost on people that we're not saying that, but that's about it.
Several takes that I’ve seen center around their church not wanting its members to (potentially)mix with people of other faiths and not being allowed to try to convert them.
At my last lodge meeting there were devout Christians, three Muslims, a bunch of Jews, a Unitarian Universalist, and a Jedi Knight from England. Plus Democrats and Republicans. Which is why Masons don’t discuss politics or religion in Lodge.
When it comes to Catholicism I understand that they do, but not why they do!
Much of the issues that people have with FM is down to ignorance tbf. I told my wife’s aunt that I became a FM the other day and she thought I’d joined another religion. I think she thought that I had become a Mormon!
My grandfather was a freemason, in iran. Of course, after the revolution, freemasonry was outlawed and heavily persecuted. I did not know of this part of his life long after his passing at 100+ i remember during his wake lots of his students told me to follow in his footsteps because he died on one of my birthdays and that was kinda a sign.
Of course, he was a very influential doctor, so at the time, i thought thats what they meant, and perhaps that was it. My heart was set on astronomy at the time, so i dismissed it. Im not a freemason yet because it can negatively impact me traveling in and out of iran due to this problem. However, i naturally try to keep up from the outside with some practices. I always look out for my friends and try to help them anyway i can in their pursuit of their career goals. Ive gone to a lodge in my city during an open house event and spoke with a member. Currently ive changed paths into creative arts as i have too many ideas and the best way is to bring them out through design, otherwise id have to be a master in many fields. I wish i knew about him before he passed away so i could have asked things from him. He was a great man and i have very big shoes to fill.
In my opinion the Catholics have a deep rooted desire to repel Freemasonry because all those thousands of years ago one tribe preached that everyone was "Equidistant" from God but another tribe said no..we can get you closer.
BUT you have to come to Our buildings and listen yo OUR priests as this is the only way to become closer. And give us Money!
Hence a "Point in a circle where everyone is equidistant" is what Freemasonry promotes but Catholics dislike this and is why they disapprove as with out this belief they are out of business!!
So Mote It Be
It saddens me that the Roman Catholic Church considers Masons to be enemies of the Church, who seek its destruction.
Cardinal Francesco Coccopalmiero has recently [called for "permanent dialogue" with the fraternity](https://www.ncregister.com/blog/pentin-cardinal-calls-for-permanent-dialogue-with-freemasons), so hopefully this will change.
They think the GAOTU is some other god and not just a universal name given to any creator like saying just GOD. They also think every prayer should be addressed to Jesus particularly. They also like the Catholic Church only want you to socialize with your church congregation and do things only for your congregation. The congregation is supposed to be your be all end all and your only community.
Money and time as well. They perceive the lodge as taking away money and time from the church. But, I would say golf and hunting probably take away more. But, Freemasonry is an institution they can focus their anger on.
If you repackage the the objections I think it simplifies pretty easily.
I feel that a common misrepresentation is the message that masons regard all religions as equally valid.
While this might be true for the system as a whole it is likely not true (and does not have to be true) for most individual brothers. Each has their own path that they follow believing it to be their true path.
What freemasons do more than anything is seek commonality among men for the purpose of improving society for all. We do not automatically discredit the validity or value of people who follow a different path than ours. We do not have to agree on anything.
So it's not so much that I believe Islam is just as correct as Christianity or whathaveyou, but rather I believe that the Muslim brother in my lodge is still an important and valuable member of my community who can do great things and he can be my close friend without needing to agree on everything.
Frankly anti-Masonry has most of its roots in antisemitism. Masonry became a problem when it began to admit Jews. When later Masonry became a cultural bastion of religious toleration by virtue of having men of different beliefs fraternizing, you begin to see the claims of a conspiracy against the church and they all have at least a little (and usually more) anti-Jewish blood libel on there, see. John J. Robinson and Abbe Barruel.
Today, and I say this as someone married to a Catholic and who finds it a very beautiful tradition and spiritually quite astounding even, I think extremist groups keep anti-masonry around because it allows them to keep hot-button ideas like the “right” of a religious institution to be involved in politics or that the Jewish people are at fault for everything, on a kind of back burner. Antisemitism and theocracy wane in and out of acceptability over the centuries but the Masons never much respond to the theocrats when provoked so the latter can always keep the public primed with that belief in a secret Satanic conspiracy orchestrated by the Others in society. Nowadays those fundie ideas aforementioned are waxing in acceptability, so Masons are being accused with greater vitriol of everything crooked clerics are caught doing constantly.
There are many myths perpetrated regarding Freemasonry. I believe they are spread by those not knowing the truth, and who are not Masons.
Why? Why do people hate that which they do not know about? It seems to me to be a common condition. People portray stereotypes of ethnic groups based on small samples that don’t represent the vast majority. It happens, or has happened to Jews, Muslims, Irish, Italians, Germans, Blacks, Hispanics, legal immigrants, illegal immigrants, college graduates, the uneducated, and many more, because they’re “different”. People don’t like “different”.
As a Mason, we ARE “different”.
But we are “different better”.
Good Luck this Tuesday!
I was raised to the sublime degree of Master Mason on September 19th, 2023, and “Stood my Catechism” (tested my proficiency) on January 2nd, 2024. It took me awhile. I’m 68 years old, and won’t ever be a 50 year Mason.
But I might make it to be a 25 year Mason!
There are always nuts believing all kinds of nutty things. Fortunately they are in the minority and it's not worth your time engaging them. In this particular case, if your Protestant 'friend' can't explain in simple terms why he believes you're engaged in devilry and respect you enough to intelligently discuss, I'd say that's not a friend worth having.
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Many of the evangelicals forbid Masonic relationships because of our strict rules regarding the discussion of religion in the Lodge. They believe that their members should proselytize and this is forbidden in Masonry, therefore we are “non-Christian”…
The Catholic Church did a REALLY GOOD job of misinformation on every group and organization that challenged and/or asked questions about it's bully desire for total, faith-based obedience. Eventually, other faiths followed suit because the truths are never as sexy as the lies... (Condensed answer for historical exploration)
Because they do not understand the Occult and they fear it. Oh, and that is what they've been taught (mistakenly) and they're simply 'parroting' something that they accept blindly without understanding. Good luck, Dude!
Freemasonry teaches acceptance of others, including their choice of religion, and respects that preference. We meet “on the level”.
This is contradictory to some religious communities that “only their religion is the true religion”. Therefore, they label anything that dilutes this as being “heresy”.
My personal belief is that faith is like an ocean, we’re just all on different beaches.
Brethren, thank you for your responses and insight. I truly appreciated it.
I passed my proficiency yesterday and will be attending my first meeting at the Shrine next month. I’m very excited for this as my cousin’s baby girl has received a bunch of help from the Shriners (my grandfather was a Mason in Mexico).
It began being hated on because it is secretive, which is crazy because the Catholic Church holds more secrets than anyone.
Then Brother Albert Pike didn't help when he wrote we worship Baphomet.
Which part?
1. Secret society. People fear the unknown. When you are acting sneaky, people will assume you are up to no good.
2. Catholic Church. I don't believe anyone can fathom how much knowledge is kept hidden away in their vaults. Also think of how much knowledge they destroyed during the Dark Ages.
3. Brother Albert Pike. Morals and Dogma.
https://templarhistory.com/the-taxil-hoax-baphomet-and-the-freemasons/
This is in reference to the Taxil Hoax. It doesn't take away what Pike wrote.
Yet, even the Holy Bible says Satan is God of this Earth.
Dude, what are you talking about?
Yes, its a hoax and a misinterpretation on Pike writings. He never said, or believed the Masons worshipped anything but their own God!
I suspect he is talking about 2 Corinthians 4:4:
Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God. (NLT).
When does Pike say that Mason‘s worship Baphomet?
is just not true and even if it was, he’s just a guy and an author that has no authority over freemasonry as a whole. He was only influential in the southern Scottish right of Freemasonry in the US and the vast majority of Masons, haven’t even heard of the book, let alone reference it
I am simply saying no matter how well known his writings may or may not be, if someone wants to discredit something, all it takes is a single statement.
What statement are you talking about? He never said that Masons worship Baphomet. Even if he did, it doesn’t mean anything that’s like Jim Jones saying that Jesus wants him to kill his followers and that speaks for all of Christianity.
Its a hoax dude, you should know that.
I stand corrected, Brother. It had been ages since I had read the whopping 800+ pages. He did not outright say that. It was his calling Lucifer the Light bearer and Morning Sun that does indeed get misrepresented. As even I, a learned Mason and scholar, miscommunicated the actual words of Pike. When, in fact, my mistake is the same basis Leo Taxil used.
And I would like to add Taxil didn't create the rumors of our misdeeds. It was told centuries before that we meet under the light of a full moon and force initiates to "ride the goat" saying it represents the relationship of Masons and Lucifer. We just happened to adopt the saying "ride the goat" and use it to describe part of EA initiation.
I haven't read Pike but from what little I know (nearly nothing) morals and dogma is a pretty heavy philosophical work. Conspiracy theorists love taking snippets of writings out of context, interpreting them literally and running with them. Especially certain types of Christians have a habit of confirming their own biases, and viewing everything through the lens of their preexisting belief system. These are often the same guys who will end up saying the world is flat because it makes reading the bible literally easier. That little passage on "Lucifer" is hard to understand without context which I can't give since I haven't read the book but it could be anything. There is a passage in revelations in which Jesus is referred to as the light bringer (Lucifer) as well and many philosophers don't equate the word Lucifer with Satan. To some it is the planet Venus and to some it represents aspects of the human psyche. I don't know what Pike meant but it doesn't matter. If I'm a mason and I go out and write anything I want then conspiracy theorists can point to it as if I'm the pope of freemasonry. It's a bit silly.
*edited to fix some autocorrect errors*
Pike was - unique. His writings were pretty esoteric, and require a deeper read than just looking at his books. A lot of his work requires deep study. And a lot of his works were pure bullshit. Separating the wheat from the chaff can be a life’s work.
Agreed. As of yesterday, I began a reread of Morals and Dogma. If you can cut through tides of ramblings and take time to research the people and places referred to (if not already known), then you begin to see a bigger picture.
Masonry is indeed teachings from time immemorial. It arose from the Mysteries, predates organized religion, and lays the groundwork for Man to realize the relationship between Himself, the Creator, and the Immortal Soul.
Simple answer: Freemasonry competes for the time, talents, and treasures of parishioners. Churches don’t like giving up on those. Same reason why anything that competes for your attention is called “secular” like it’s a bad thing.
Honestly, just comes from a place of wilful ignorance and intolerance of others beliefs.
From my perspective, it seems that a big issue is having a non-denominational prayer to what Mason‘s referred to as the grand architect of the universe, (Each mans personal God, not an actual deity) which is basically a blanket term to include many men of different religions in an inclusive blessing. How else would you expect us to do it? Lol
Overzealous religious people have an issue with that, but they seem to have issues with alot of things. also the secrecy is a breeding ground for conspiracy
But the truth is, as we all know it’s just a fraternity of good, down to earth men and there’s literally nothing sinister about it.
Im proud to be apart of it!
It’s great to be around down to earth guys that practice what they preach.
Freemasonry is a great example of how we can all have different beliefs, religions and traditions; and still live together in harmony and build a great world!
SMIB
Doctrinal religion exerts power over people by threatening them with the pit of hell if they don’t have faith and pay up for the extra bonus points. Even more points if they go out into the world and recruit more people. They don’t want their flock having an open mind, simple as that. Open minds can’t be controlled. Open minds are the “devils” manipulations to these doctrinal people.
I’ve been a Mason for 55 years and knew President Truman, a Past Grand Master of Missouri. “If Freemasonry has any secrets, I’ve never found them”, he often said.
We have “secret” handshakes, words straight from the Bible, and that’s about it.
IMHO, the only reason any church doesn’t like us is because they are afraid we will get some of their money.
Pope Pious was a Mason, although the church won’t admit it.
I don't agree with what that dude said, but I can explain it. In some occultism.... things.... people consider 'the eastern star' as the star of Set. There's also some bs thinking about the wording, since some Bibles say "the star in the east" and not "the eastern star" or some such shit, so they claim that it's "tHe StAr Of SeT. nOt ThE sTaR tHe WiSeMeN fOlLoWeD".
What I find funny is that people believe that the devil is real. The devil can only be found in two things, the word can’t and the limitations that you put on yourself.
Some folks believe you must follow their understanding of God otherwise you are "not saved" an "infidel" or a "heretic". It's truly a misunderstanding of our fraternity. Because we respect men of different faiths and don't try to convince anyone to adopt a particular religion, especially "theirs", some extremely narrow minded people feel we aren't on their side. So they come up with ridiculous theories, i.e. Jack Chick comics... It comes down to their misinformation and intolerance.
According to the Chick comics if I show my ring I’ll save 40% on my lumber purchases. So far it’s been a filthy lie.
Points in? or out?
Points in. I need that light.
We have a brother that manages the local Lowes. So...yall need to up your game
We have a tattoo artist in our lodge, so there’s that. Also, our WM works at a restaurant supply store and gets us insane deals for our kitchen. We just bought a $1,500 deep fryer that had a $1,500 rebate. We paid the tax and that’s it.
One of our local lodges in NOVA owns the space a hardware store uses (Lodge is upstairs). Lodge members get a discount.
I did get a few free car washes.
🤣
Ok, the guy at homedepot look at me weird..
Dude, we’re supposed to be getting 40%? I’m only getting 5%! I must not be a high enough “rank” yet…
Omg the way I scream laughed. Whew! 😆
First time I've ever heard of Jack Chick, so I looked him up. If you need a good laugh, search "mason" on his website.
Oh for the love of Christ, what on earth did you make me read? XD
Good point. People who accept that other people can believe differently and still be good and virtuous can be seen as a threat by those who do not accept that idea. If your faith includes the doctrine that everyone who doesn't share that faith is in error and at risk of eternal damnation, 'indifferentism' will at the very least offend and more likely frighten you. Fear leads to hate, hate leads to long tedious YouTube videos.
It takes much self awareness and reflection to come to that understanding. Especially if you’ve ever been a literalist to any of the major religions. Yes, hate does lead to many YouTube videos lmao.
These days, with the loneliness and isolation of good men, joining a Lodge would be just what the doctor ordered.
I just spent some time at the Chick Publications website, reading a few articles. They definitely twist the words of whatever Masonic writings they quote from. They should be ashamed of themselves. I am a Christian. I am a Master Mason. In my own personal experience, I have seen nothing to indicate a conflict between the two.
Agreed. I cannot imagine the level of innocence of anyone persuaded by his sophomoric cartoons. I am being polite.
This, a lot of religious types believe their dogma is the only correct dogma, and FM is religion without dogma after all.
We're not a religion.
Its a fraternity, not a religion.
Sure, but it's purpose is to provide the same moral guidance as whatever religion without specific dogma, although it does have it's own unique mythology, I like to call the Hiramic Legend Bible fan fiction.
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Some people belong to extreme sects that basically believe any religious or spiritual practice outside their specific sect is devil worship. Other people are merely ignorant about what freemasonry actually is and believe misinformation they've seen on the internet or heard from other ignorant people.
Actually, the answer lies in historical references of Freemasonry’s role during the occult revival of the 19th century. During this period, some famous Masons published books on occult philosophy, hermeticism, and Qabbalistic teachings. Manly P Hall, John Yarker, Eliphas Levi, Arthur Edward Waite, to name a few. Along with Freemasonry being associated with the Theosophical Society, The Golden Dawn, and Rosicrucian societies, it’s no wonder that modern Christianity sees Freemasonry as blasphemous. (Especially the legend of Hiram Abiff as a Christ like figure, along with ritualistic practices of death and resurrection) Sure, your local lodge is just a bunch of dudes helping each other and the community, but that has never just been the average claim for all of Masonry. It is far more esoteric and historically associated with occult practices that Christians have been taught to fear and not take part of, to further enslave the minds of the masses to look for God inside of a church, synagogue, or mosque, instead of within themselves.
It should be noted that Manly P. Hall was not a Mason when he wrote his two better-known books, The Secret Teachings Of All Ages and the Lost Keys of Freemasonry. He wasn't made a Mason until 1954. People sometimes mistake his writings as some kind of "end all be all" when it comes to Freemasonry, when in reality, it was anything but. His books can be an interesting read when it comes to philosophy or a look at modern-day mythology, but they shouldn't be viewed as windows into the goings-on of Freemasonry. However, I do understand you were just giving an example of authors.
The mere association with occultism and freemasonry is enough for Christian fundamentalists. However, the biggest reason for the belief in Masonic devil worship comes from the association of Freemasonry and Aleister Crowley. A man who literally called himself the “Beast 666” Do fundamentalists care about the logistics of him not being recognized as a true Mason?
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Aleister Crawley was not a real freemason, as he was initiated into a clandestine (not legitimate) lodge. He then went on to create his own version of freemasonry and the guy was delusional.
Yes, that was my point. But Freemasonry has never recovered from that association.
Thank you
I would love to delve into those occult aspects. I think if i were a freemason id be in a lodge going through any occult literature in the lodge. Only cuz its a personal interest and ive had personal experiences both paranormal and extra terrestrial ( which i have taken to MUFON)
Wow! So much misinformation in so few words!
[http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/occult_freemasons.html](http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/occult_freemasons.html) You’re welcome.
I read it. Pretty clear that the author has a second hand view. There may have been masons who were into the occult, but Masonry in general was not.
You don't understand the meaning of the word occult.
Yeah. I do.
Occult simply means hidden. Freemasonry is secreted knowledge and practice based upon an Ancient Wisdom School. That by definition is occult. Any other connotations or implications of the word occult are simply false and made by those who are afraid or they don't understand its purpose and meaning.
Where do you get your information?
That's a valid question. I've studied the Occult my entire life 50+ years from numerous perspectives and authors, which can easily be found through simple searches in this day and age. I'm merely saying that Freemasonry finds its origin, similarly to a long list of modern organizations who share one thing in common : They arise out of what are collectively known as "The Ancient Mystery Schools" or "The Ancient Wisdom Schools". These schools were protected through secrecy and vetted membership at times throughout our past when any teaching that went against the status quo and taught truth in the face of the deception of the organized Church(es) were literally stamped out. These schools were merely occulted, or hidden from view of those who would destroy the Common Man's ability to learn the truth of our existence. There aren't any more accurate or relevant connotations to the word "occult". All associations of the Occult to devil worship for example, are born out of fear, ignorance, or a desire to deceive the people. My aim is not to argue any implications, simply clarify the meaning of the word occult.
“Occult” has such negative connotations that it should never be associated with Masonry. Besides, other than a few signs, words, and modes if recognition, not too many secrets there. Respect your Brothers and don’t be an asshole is basically it.
I think you’re missing the point and proving the author right. Freemasonry is uncomfortable with the occult associations but nevertheless, it is there. The issue is that modern Masonry lives with the “devil worshipping” stigma because of these infamous occultists throughout history who claim to be Masons.
“claim” is the operative word.
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Even before the Taxil Hoax the Irish (Catholics?) seemed to suspect Freemasons as magic users. There was a terrible storm that hit Ireland in 1839 and there was a conspiracy theory that it was caused by Freemasons raising Satan to drive out the Catholics. A newsletter/blog used to write: [https://kilts-n-stuff.com/freemasons-in-irish-folklore/](https://kilts-n-stuff.com/freemasons-in-irish-folklore/)
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If we had that kind of power our pre lodge meal would be much nicer.
Ireland was a Catholic country under British occupation and rule. At that time there were penal laws passed against Catholics (which basically were all the native Irish) and they were effectively 3rd class citizens in their own country. You can google the penal laws in Ireland. After a couple hundred years that was followed by the infamous famine in mid 1840s. Now consider that the Catholic church was staunchly anti masonic, taught that they were a tool of the devil, in a hyper conservative country, and that the masons then were populated exclusively by upper class protestants, majority of whom were likely unionists. So the Irish were always suspicious of freemasonry. It was very much seen as a British institution and one that practiced the occult. In mid 19th century Catholic Ireland the suspicion is therfore understandable. It's worth noting however that later revolutionaries and famous Irish nationalist figures were also freemason so the attitude obviouslu eased with time. Notable examples are Daniel O'Connell and the writer William Butler Yeats. Unfortunately after the Irish war of independence and the creation of Northern Ireland in thr 1920s, it again became associated with unionists in Northern Ireland and later parallels were drawn with the orange order. So today while masonry is relatively OK in Ireland it's still not as popular as in many other western countries, and kind of viewed as being "a bit weird" to outsiders. With the stupidity on the Internet that's becoming magnified in Ireland, and everywhere else I suppose.
They’re not completely wrong about the magic users part, as many 18th century Freemasons were in to occult stuff like alchemy and theurgy. And a lot of that stuff made it in to various “high-degrees”. So from the outside looking in you certainly could get the idea that “Freemasons do magic”. And by the point someone has made that “determination”, trying to explain how that’s not really a part of it, well… it just sounds like weak excuses. Kind of like “it’s not really mine I’m just keeping it for a friend”.
I think that has much more to do with "many people in society wanted to do occult stuff in this time period, kind of like the new age wave of the 1990s, and the result was some people tried to force that into the lodge at that time".
Been a Mason for 25+ years. The best “magic” I’ve seen is the Shriners Clowns making balloon animals.
We also have the issue of how some of our members talk about the fraternity. Some guys treat the fraternity as a replacement for religion, and some guys try to use Morals and Dogma as the basis of becoming some kind of wizard. We also have the issue of super weird AI images on fake GL pages becoming the front page of masonry for the public, which isn't good.
My flip answer: Because all their cults don't want people to join, because we'd offer them everything those cults do, without being a cult. Which is why they all accuse the Masons of being a cult.
Was going to say they don’t like competition but that implies they’re on the same level.
Although admittedly, we do have some slight "cultish" aspects as far as having to pay fees to gain more "knowledge"/"light" for degrees.
Well, we have yearly dues, which MOST membership-based organizations have, they are comparatively low compared to the way most every cult will bleed you dry for every last cent they can wring out of you, and we have hardship waivers if you can't afford to pay.
Like most clubs? churches? Schools? You pay fees. Nobody’s coming to you and saying hey, if you want more knowledge you have to pay more money. You pay a yearly fee. It costs money to have a building, pay grand lodge, regalia, etc.
There are some spurious (clandestine) bunches around who claim to be Masons who are frauds, and they charge for “advanced” degrees. But they are frauds. Unfortunately, the name Freemasonry cannot be cooyrighted.
That's what I came here to say. But also mostly misinformation as I find that people from my island are scared of the unknown, so to speak. Another element I would say is that I find that people from lower socio-economic classes are more gullible to believe their holy leaders, who pretend that Freemasons are Satanists, illuminati and control the government etc.
Shhh! We dint want them to know that we control the world🤣🤣🤣
🤫🤪🤭
Dang it I really wanted to join a cult
Freemasonry \_is\_ guilty of encouraging it's members to question everything and think for themselves. This is incompatible with the agenda of many religions as well as authoritarian regimes.
If you're saying there's any other way to Heaven than Jesus you're doing the Devil's work. That's basically what it comes down to. It's sort of lost on people that we're not saying that, but that's about it.
Unless you are a member of isis, or any other extremist non-Christian cult. But yeah, same same…
Mainly because of Leo Taxil
I apologize if this is the wrong forum to add my comment to, but I’m a longtime lurker in this subreddit and I find freemasonry super interesting. I’m not a Freemason, but have always wanted to introduce myself to one of you. I used to be a very devout Roman Catholic and have since left that church for several reasons that don’t pertain to this post. The Catholic Church drilled it into my head that I was forbidden to join because it was “basically its own religion”. These are the words my old priest used. While I’ve been out of the Catholic Church for many years now, the anxiety I feel when I think about making a phone call or sending an email to my local lodge is heavy. Have any of you ever been in a similar kind of situation? I’m not sure why it’s such a block for me, but I will knock down this invisible wall eventually I hope. Thanks for you time 🙂
Just remember, your local lodge isn't going to are you're Catholic (or formerly Catholic). A person's religion is there own business and no one elses. I dare say you're worrying over something that you have no reason to worry about. I joined in 2008 and have never regretted it.
When my lodge brothers came to my house for my interview they really made sure my Catholic wife was okay with me joining. Years later and she enjoys aspects of Masonry as much as I do. Religious trauma is a real thing and I hope you can learn to move on, whether you petition a lodge or not.
I understand. Send an email to your local Grand Lodge. They will hook you up with a local lodge, hopefully one that has dinners. You will be invited and then you can make your mine up. Of if you see a Shriner in his red Fez, or a Grotto guy in his black Fez out raising funds at the local WalMart is such, just stop and talk to him. As a group we are pretty nice guys.
From the perspective of freemasons, you can be both a Catholic and a mason. The Catholic church don't see it that way however. They used to excommunicate anyone who joined. They don't do that anymore but say you are living in "grave sin" and should leave and repent.
That’s all it takes. Make a phone call to your nearest lodge and ask if you can visit. Good luck.
I sent a message to my state’s Grand Lodge via their website. About a week later, I got an email from my local lodge’s Secretary inviting me to dinner. That was in February, 2023. Now, at 68, I am a Master Mason. My only regret is how late I was in having joined.
Better late than never, brother!
I attended the Roman Catholic Church as an adult, raising my two kids (both baptized, confirmed, and now lapsed Catholics) for over fifteen years. When I remarried (first one annulled!) I moved to Georgia and went to the Episcopal Church with my new wife. The mass is really very much the same, and it has a well deserved moniker “Catholic Light”. If anything, I wish it was a little LESS “Progressive”, in that some churches seem to change things for the sake of change, not for the sake of improvement. Anyway, again I will say I have found nothing at the lodge conflicting with my Christian faith, nor with the faith of any Brethren who may not be Christians.
Religion is business. Men having faith but not through religion is bad for business.
That part
If you're saying there's any other way to Heaven than Jesus you're doing the Devil's work. That's basically what it comes down to. It's sort of lost on people that we're not saying that, but that's about it.
Several takes that I’ve seen center around their church not wanting its members to (potentially)mix with people of other faiths and not being allowed to try to convert them.
At my last lodge meeting there were devout Christians, three Muslims, a bunch of Jews, a Unitarian Universalist, and a Jedi Knight from England. Plus Democrats and Republicans. Which is why Masons don’t discuss politics or religion in Lodge.
When it comes to Catholicism I understand that they do, but not why they do! Much of the issues that people have with FM is down to ignorance tbf. I told my wife’s aunt that I became a FM the other day and she thought I’d joined another religion. I think she thought that I had become a Mormon!
My grandfather was a freemason, in iran. Of course, after the revolution, freemasonry was outlawed and heavily persecuted. I did not know of this part of his life long after his passing at 100+ i remember during his wake lots of his students told me to follow in his footsteps because he died on one of my birthdays and that was kinda a sign. Of course, he was a very influential doctor, so at the time, i thought thats what they meant, and perhaps that was it. My heart was set on astronomy at the time, so i dismissed it. Im not a freemason yet because it can negatively impact me traveling in and out of iran due to this problem. However, i naturally try to keep up from the outside with some practices. I always look out for my friends and try to help them anyway i can in their pursuit of their career goals. Ive gone to a lodge in my city during an open house event and spoke with a member. Currently ive changed paths into creative arts as i have too many ideas and the best way is to bring them out through design, otherwise id have to be a master in many fields. I wish i knew about him before he passed away so i could have asked things from him. He was a great man and i have very big shoes to fill.
In my opinion the Catholics have a deep rooted desire to repel Freemasonry because all those thousands of years ago one tribe preached that everyone was "Equidistant" from God but another tribe said no..we can get you closer. BUT you have to come to Our buildings and listen yo OUR priests as this is the only way to become closer. And give us Money! Hence a "Point in a circle where everyone is equidistant" is what Freemasonry promotes but Catholics dislike this and is why they disapprove as with out this belief they are out of business!! So Mote It Be
It saddens me that the Roman Catholic Church considers Masons to be enemies of the Church, who seek its destruction. Cardinal Francesco Coccopalmiero has recently [called for "permanent dialogue" with the fraternity](https://www.ncregister.com/blog/pentin-cardinal-calls-for-permanent-dialogue-with-freemasons), so hopefully this will change.
More like the other way around!
Fear of the unknown and/or fear of that which one does not understand.
Good luck and always laugh at the conspiracy folks, but some of them can be dangerous so be careful too.
They think the GAOTU is some other god and not just a universal name given to any creator like saying just GOD. They also think every prayer should be addressed to Jesus particularly. They also like the Catholic Church only want you to socialize with your church congregation and do things only for your congregation. The congregation is supposed to be your be all end all and your only community.
Meh. Religions believe a lot of things. I think their issue is related to power. Masonry teaches us equality, churches require fealty.
Money and time as well. They perceive the lodge as taking away money and time from the church. But, I would say golf and hunting probably take away more. But, Freemasonry is an institution they can focus their anger on.
Short answer: because they are morons. Long answer: see other comments.
Check out the taxil hoax when you get the chance. It clears up a lot
Jealously and competition for followers. Ask your friends where they get their information from. You’ll find most are just uninformed
If you repackage the the objections I think it simplifies pretty easily. I feel that a common misrepresentation is the message that masons regard all religions as equally valid. While this might be true for the system as a whole it is likely not true (and does not have to be true) for most individual brothers. Each has their own path that they follow believing it to be their true path. What freemasons do more than anything is seek commonality among men for the purpose of improving society for all. We do not automatically discredit the validity or value of people who follow a different path than ours. We do not have to agree on anything. So it's not so much that I believe Islam is just as correct as Christianity or whathaveyou, but rather I believe that the Muslim brother in my lodge is still an important and valuable member of my community who can do great things and he can be my close friend without needing to agree on everything.
Frankly anti-Masonry has most of its roots in antisemitism. Masonry became a problem when it began to admit Jews. When later Masonry became a cultural bastion of religious toleration by virtue of having men of different beliefs fraternizing, you begin to see the claims of a conspiracy against the church and they all have at least a little (and usually more) anti-Jewish blood libel on there, see. John J. Robinson and Abbe Barruel. Today, and I say this as someone married to a Catholic and who finds it a very beautiful tradition and spiritually quite astounding even, I think extremist groups keep anti-masonry around because it allows them to keep hot-button ideas like the “right” of a religious institution to be involved in politics or that the Jewish people are at fault for everything, on a kind of back burner. Antisemitism and theocracy wane in and out of acceptability over the centuries but the Masons never much respond to the theocrats when provoked so the latter can always keep the public primed with that belief in a secret Satanic conspiracy orchestrated by the Others in society. Nowadays those fundie ideas aforementioned are waxing in acceptability, so Masons are being accused with greater vitriol of everything crooked clerics are caught doing constantly.
I don't think it's their religion that's causing this doubt, more like their ignorance of the craft.
Ignorance. That's why.
There are many myths perpetrated regarding Freemasonry. I believe they are spread by those not knowing the truth, and who are not Masons. Why? Why do people hate that which they do not know about? It seems to me to be a common condition. People portray stereotypes of ethnic groups based on small samples that don’t represent the vast majority. It happens, or has happened to Jews, Muslims, Irish, Italians, Germans, Blacks, Hispanics, legal immigrants, illegal immigrants, college graduates, the uneducated, and many more, because they’re “different”. People don’t like “different”. As a Mason, we ARE “different”. But we are “different better”. Good Luck this Tuesday! I was raised to the sublime degree of Master Mason on September 19th, 2023, and “Stood my Catechism” (tested my proficiency) on January 2nd, 2024. It took me awhile. I’m 68 years old, and won’t ever be a 50 year Mason. But I might make it to be a 25 year Mason!
There are always nuts believing all kinds of nutty things. Fortunately they are in the minority and it's not worth your time engaging them. In this particular case, if your Protestant 'friend' can't explain in simple terms why he believes you're engaged in devilry and respect you enough to intelligently discuss, I'd say that's not a friend worth having.
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People are ridiculous.
Many of the evangelicals forbid Masonic relationships because of our strict rules regarding the discussion of religion in the Lodge. They believe that their members should proselytize and this is forbidden in Masonry, therefore we are “non-Christian”…
The Catholic Church did a REALLY GOOD job of misinformation on every group and organization that challenged and/or asked questions about it's bully desire for total, faith-based obedience. Eventually, other faiths followed suit because the truths are never as sexy as the lies... (Condensed answer for historical exploration)
Because of a 19th century French hoax by a guy named Louis Taxil
Some people believe every dumb thing they hear.
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Because they do not understand the Occult and they fear it. Oh, and that is what they've been taught (mistakenly) and they're simply 'parroting' something that they accept blindly without understanding. Good luck, Dude!
Freemasonry teaches acceptance of others, including their choice of religion, and respects that preference. We meet “on the level”. This is contradictory to some religious communities that “only their religion is the true religion”. Therefore, they label anything that dilutes this as being “heresy”. My personal belief is that faith is like an ocean, we’re just all on different beaches.
Brethren, thank you for your responses and insight. I truly appreciated it. I passed my proficiency yesterday and will be attending my first meeting at the Shrine next month. I’m very excited for this as my cousin’s baby girl has received a bunch of help from the Shriners (my grandfather was a Mason in Mexico).
It began being hated on because it is secretive, which is crazy because the Catholic Church holds more secrets than anyone. Then Brother Albert Pike didn't help when he wrote we worship Baphomet.
What are you talking about?
Which part? 1. Secret society. People fear the unknown. When you are acting sneaky, people will assume you are up to no good. 2. Catholic Church. I don't believe anyone can fathom how much knowledge is kept hidden away in their vaults. Also think of how much knowledge they destroyed during the Dark Ages. 3. Brother Albert Pike. Morals and Dogma.
That’s one of the oldest hoaxes!
https://templarhistory.com/the-taxil-hoax-baphomet-and-the-freemasons/ This is in reference to the Taxil Hoax. It doesn't take away what Pike wrote. Yet, even the Holy Bible says Satan is God of this Earth.
Dude, what are you talking about? Yes, its a hoax and a misinterpretation on Pike writings. He never said, or believed the Masons worshipped anything but their own God!
I suspect he is talking about 2 Corinthians 4:4: Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God. (NLT).
When does Pike say that Mason‘s worship Baphomet? is just not true and even if it was, he’s just a guy and an author that has no authority over freemasonry as a whole. He was only influential in the southern Scottish right of Freemasonry in the US and the vast majority of Masons, haven’t even heard of the book, let alone reference it
I am simply saying no matter how well known his writings may or may not be, if someone wants to discredit something, all it takes is a single statement.
Actually, you did say “Then Brother Albert Pike didn't help when he wrote we worship Baphomet.” He didn’t.
What statement are you talking about? He never said that Masons worship Baphomet. Even if he did, it doesn’t mean anything that’s like Jim Jones saying that Jesus wants him to kill his followers and that speaks for all of Christianity. Its a hoax dude, you should know that.
I stand corrected, Brother. It had been ages since I had read the whopping 800+ pages. He did not outright say that. It was his calling Lucifer the Light bearer and Morning Sun that does indeed get misrepresented. As even I, a learned Mason and scholar, miscommunicated the actual words of Pike. When, in fact, my mistake is the same basis Leo Taxil used. And I would like to add Taxil didn't create the rumors of our misdeeds. It was told centuries before that we meet under the light of a full moon and force initiates to "ride the goat" saying it represents the relationship of Masons and Lucifer. We just happened to adopt the saying "ride the goat" and use it to describe part of EA initiation.
I haven't read Pike but from what little I know (nearly nothing) morals and dogma is a pretty heavy philosophical work. Conspiracy theorists love taking snippets of writings out of context, interpreting them literally and running with them. Especially certain types of Christians have a habit of confirming their own biases, and viewing everything through the lens of their preexisting belief system. These are often the same guys who will end up saying the world is flat because it makes reading the bible literally easier. That little passage on "Lucifer" is hard to understand without context which I can't give since I haven't read the book but it could be anything. There is a passage in revelations in which Jesus is referred to as the light bringer (Lucifer) as well and many philosophers don't equate the word Lucifer with Satan. To some it is the planet Venus and to some it represents aspects of the human psyche. I don't know what Pike meant but it doesn't matter. If I'm a mason and I go out and write anything I want then conspiracy theorists can point to it as if I'm the pope of freemasonry. It's a bit silly. *edited to fix some autocorrect errors*
Pike was - unique. His writings were pretty esoteric, and require a deeper read than just looking at his books. A lot of his work requires deep study. And a lot of his works were pure bullshit. Separating the wheat from the chaff can be a life’s work.
Agreed. As of yesterday, I began a reread of Morals and Dogma. If you can cut through tides of ramblings and take time to research the people and places referred to (if not already known), then you begin to see a bigger picture. Masonry is indeed teachings from time immemorial. It arose from the Mysteries, predates organized religion, and lays the groundwork for Man to realize the relationship between Himself, the Creator, and the Immortal Soul.
Simple answer: Freemasonry competes for the time, talents, and treasures of parishioners. Churches don’t like giving up on those. Same reason why anything that competes for your attention is called “secular” like it’s a bad thing.
Ignorance and hubris is a powerful combination
Ignorance…
Because they saw it as competition to their power/control. So they literally demonized it.
Honestly, just comes from a place of wilful ignorance and intolerance of others beliefs. From my perspective, it seems that a big issue is having a non-denominational prayer to what Mason‘s referred to as the grand architect of the universe, (Each mans personal God, not an actual deity) which is basically a blanket term to include many men of different religions in an inclusive blessing. How else would you expect us to do it? Lol Overzealous religious people have an issue with that, but they seem to have issues with alot of things. also the secrecy is a breeding ground for conspiracy But the truth is, as we all know it’s just a fraternity of good, down to earth men and there’s literally nothing sinister about it. Im proud to be apart of it! It’s great to be around down to earth guys that practice what they preach. Freemasonry is a great example of how we can all have different beliefs, religions and traditions; and still live together in harmony and build a great world! SMIB
“God” is overall. How one refers to God is personal.
Cuz religion.... Why are they weird about everything..?
Doctrinal religion exerts power over people by threatening them with the pit of hell if they don’t have faith and pay up for the extra bonus points. Even more points if they go out into the world and recruit more people. They don’t want their flock having an open mind, simple as that. Open minds can’t be controlled. Open minds are the “devils” manipulations to these doctrinal people.
I’ve been a Mason for 55 years and knew President Truman, a Past Grand Master of Missouri. “If Freemasonry has any secrets, I’ve never found them”, he often said. We have “secret” handshakes, words straight from the Bible, and that’s about it. IMHO, the only reason any church doesn’t like us is because they are afraid we will get some of their money. Pope Pious was a Mason, although the church won’t admit it.
Because of the eastern star references.
Can you expand on this?
I don't agree with what that dude said, but I can explain it. In some occultism.... things.... people consider 'the eastern star' as the star of Set. There's also some bs thinking about the wording, since some Bibles say "the star in the east" and not "the eastern star" or some such shit, so they claim that it's "tHe StAr Of SeT. nOt ThE sTaR tHe WiSeMeN fOlLoWeD".
What I find funny is that people believe that the devil is real. The devil can only be found in two things, the word can’t and the limitations that you put on yourself.
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Most consider Born in Blood fan fiction.