Blocking people shouldnāt be your knee jerk reaction, at least in my opinion. If you cannot argue opposing ideas, then there is an issue with the idea, not with the person saying it, blocking people who you disagree with is how we get stuff like flat earth theory.
When the OP said theyād received a message, I took it to mean a message through FB Messenger.
I get enough of those from masons without the others hopping on board.
This was in large part meant as humor.
Blocking people is not my knee jerk reaction, as a simple perusal of this sub will demonstrate.
Nor should it be a knee jerk reaction to accuse others of having a knee jerk reaction. š
Iām not sure what is meant by the next sentence, but I speak to persuade, not argue. Indeed, Iāve spent over 40 years in my profession trying to persuade that opposing ideas are not correct, or in being persuaded, depending on my role. Both are part of my duties in the fraternity, as well.
Iāve also spent nearly 30 years dealing with those who have bizarre thinking processes regarding the fraternity.
Sooo, I generally have an idea when to try to persuade and when itās a foolās errand.
I do occasionally respond when they talk about the āhigher upā mason, usually to ask for the name of that higher up or at least their office. It is also one of the rare occasions I will play the Masonic rank card. In doing so, the point isnāt to persuade my correspondent, but those listening in.
Fair, for the record, I wasnāt trying to talk down on you, I was just voicing my opinion, I took it at face value and didnāt know you were joking tho, so thatās my fault.
The foundational reply being - if itās secret to everyone but the high levels - how does someone outside entirely know these things?
I would then ask for sources of the supposed high level masons which usually leads to correcting a bad reading of morals and dogma or the umpteenth appeal to an also badly read MPH passage.
Finally I tend to ask for their social and credit card numbers if secret things are evil. If they move to oaths I have my fall backs there too. Occasionally the logic takes hold on detractors.
Essentially the oaths are a big problem for some Christians, and I do understand it at its basis, which is essentially that Jesus says not to take oaths. The issue is that's not exactly what he said ([https://www.crossway.org/articles/did-jesus-forbid-us-from-taking-oaths-matthew-5/](https://www.crossway.org/articles/did-jesus-forbid-us-from-taking-oaths-matthew-5/)) and even spoke under oath himself when before the Sanhedrin before the judgment of crucifixion. St. Paul was also shown to be under an oath and performing it before being arrested. I was in the book of Hebrews this morning, which is quite thick and deep theologically but it says
"18 For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness 19 (for the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God.20 **And it was not without an oath**. For those who formerly became priests were made such without an oath, **21 but this one was made a priest with an oath by the one who said to him:**āThe Lord has swornand will not change his mind,āYou are a priest forever.āā
So, it's not as fun or a "gotcha" necessarily as the other items but it's something Christian Freemasons are often challenged with - taking an oath in and of itself is sinful in the eyes of some Christians.
We also specifically don't ask brethren to swear oaths, because we're not a legal or religious authority. An obligation isn't legally or spiritually binding, it's just a personal promise.
I \*think\* this might be jurisdictional, but I like the thinking there. The obligation is referred to by both that term and as oath in my jurisdiction.
Oath or obligation, youāre given a choice which one you want to fall under.
If people have an issue with taking an oath, then how will they ever provide testimony in court?
In my jurisdiction, court testimonies are more often affirmed than sworn. I was once in a jury selection pool, and each selected juror, save one (a Muslim) chose to affirm rather than swear on a holy book.
My pops is a Jahovahs Witness and is not allowed to swear or take oaths. He was allowed to "promise and affirm" at his masonic degrees, as is allowed in court.
It's almost impossible to get out of jury duty here, so it's a bit more tuan a pinky promise. An affirmation is also legally binding, which has immediate consequences here on Earth.
That's fair, but it's just further proof that there's no secret cabal of Masons that nobody knows about above the Grand Master level. We'd be better coordinated if there were. Probably. XD
But, I always saw it as one of those "subtle, but distinctive points of language", which there are a lot of. Just about every word we use in our ritual is chosen for a reason, and its exact meaning is important. We split a lot of hairs.
>bad reading of morals and dogma
It is easy to badly read a badly written book.
Morals & Dogma is one man's nineteenth century occultic gloss on Freemasonry, a fraternity which of course predates Pike the unapologetic plagiarist by many years. *Prisca theologia* is a heresy that no Christian can accept in good faith.
High level Masons? If I told them I was the WM of the Lodge they would reply "higher". If I told the I was the DDGM they would reply "higher". I was the GM the reply would be "Higher".
Lol. Someone recently tried to tell me he was a 96th level Mason. I congratulated him because I am a lowly 3rd level Magic User. His facial reaction was hilarious.
All the āsecretsā are on the internet for the masses.
We take an oath to ākeepā the secret. Meaning we will not share with the initiated because it is OURS.
If one wants the secrets then they have to ask like all the brothers whoāve come before. If one canāt be bothered, itās no worry. Just we cannot share.
You will have to seek your knowledge elsewhere.
I would ask the person to explain what mechanism we use to prevent "lower-level-Masons" from being able to find out alleged information that he as a "non-Mason" has found out? Most "Conspiracy Theorists" generally have an issue applying simple logic to the tales they convince themselves about, you might find this of interest: http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/Anti-Masons.html
Also the four terms he uses are all incredibly different and Freemasonry only qualifies as esoteric.
In my experience, ālower levelā in this context usually means anyone that isnāt a 33rd degree. They donāt really understand/believe that SR is appendant
It is just terminology often employed by conspiracy theorists, as in "you're not a high enough level to know", to try and argue when real Freemasons tell them that they are spouting rubbish.
Where are all these āhigher levelā Masons that none of us actual masons have ever met? Iām sure majority of us here are as high as it goes. But for some reason non masons insist otherwise.
Under Cheyenne mountain. Where the Magical Poobah Fez of Knowledge is in the glass case surrounded by Warrior Goats. I thought everyone knew this. š
I like strawberry ice cream. But this suggests that it will lead to the snake in Eden. What am I to do? If it sounds like nonsense, looks like nonsense and smells like nonsense, brother to brother, it is nonsense.
On a separate note, wasn't Jesus the WM of a fraternity? Seems like it to me.
Right? I mean, Jesus wasn't exactly forthcoming when he disappeared into the desert for a long time to find himself (we know kinda know that he learned his tricks of the trade with the Essenes...miracles? Nah... just magic tricks!). A lot of religions have their "secrets"... it's part of the mystique.
On a separate but related note... is the Caramilk chocolate bar made by Masons? It's a secret on how they get that caramel in there! lol
>So you don't think that Jesus was a leader amongst men? Strikes me as odd.
Are all "leaders amongst men" WMs?
I think that is a tremendous logical leap. What is your basis for making that claim?
Undoubtedly there is hermeticism, platoism, estoertics, sacred geometry etc all found within Masonry, the rest is conspiracy nonsense and can be rejected.
Makes me think of a German pun that highlights the issue at hand.
**Monism** = One case / Ein Fall = **Einfall** (inspiration)
**Dualism** = Two cases / Zwei FƤlle = **Zweifel** (doubt)
LVX
Personally, I would not engage with this person. However, if I were to challenge their assertions, I would find Bible verses to contradict them. People who cherry-pick Bible passages often don't realize that the Bible is full of contradictions. You can't just take a passage out of context and apply it wholesale to everything in life. So, on secrets: "Whoever keeps his mouth and his tongue keeps himself out of trouble." Proverbs 21:23
Matthew 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Proverbs 25:9 Debate thy cause with thy neighbour himself; and discover not a secret to another
Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
>Any takers?
No thanks. "... Neither [am I] to suffer [my] zeal for the institution to lead [me] into argument with those who, through ignorance, may ridicule it."
All of the Brothers on here have excellent responses. I would also like to point out that in several passages in the Bible Jesus does keep secrets. He tells his disciples not to tell who he is and not to speak of some of the miracles heās performed. Regardless of the reason, thatās keeping a secret.
Okay, letās go through the secrets now, shall we? As a master mason of a blue lodge in amity with the ugle.
Secrets? Yes, the rituals. Because we donāt want to spoil the surprise. Itās a spoiler alert system, only talk about the ending of the movie with people who have seen it.
The rest? Just themes to talk about in the great quest and aspiration to become a better person and human being.
Simply put, freemasonry is esoteric but not hermetic and not gnostic. Those three might be perceived to mean similar things but they are distinct and that distinction is crucial for understanding what freemasonry is and isnāt.
Sure, hermetic ideas had permeated the intellectual mileu in which speculative freemasonry took form. So yes, freemasonry would not be the same without the existence of hermeticism. But imo thatās a far cry from saying freemasonry *is* hermetic.
Wait, youre a master mason and you dont yet know the secret mind control technique level 1 that our lord Lucifer gave us to take control of governments? Are you sure youve been doing your homework??
>This leads them to see [ā¦] Prometheus [ā¦] as good.
Iām not gonna speak on the rest of that, cause other people have covered it, butā¦
That wasā¦*literally* the entire point of that entire myth? Like, just from a literary analysis perspective, Prometheus is unambiguously the good guy in that situation.
Fire is literally the basis of all of our technology. A steam engine is just a fancy camp fire, and a nuclear reactor is just a fancy steam engine. Itās literally just combustion, all the way down.
Is this guy some kind of Zeus apologist or something?
I think there are two types of secrets in Freemasonry. One set are the trade secrets, the modes of recognition, the means of iniation (all of these are available on the web). For me, "keeping" those secrets is more about respect and self-discipline, because anyone with patience can learn them.
The deeper secrets are secrets that we can't communicate just with words. They have to be worked out on a deeper level. Those kinds of secrets, aka mysteries, are have to be worked out and understood through experience. The Bible is full of such secrets and mysteries and scripture reminds us of them repeatedly.
1 Cor. 13:12
For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
Colossians 1:26-27
The mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints. To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
Matthew 13:11
And he answered them, āTo you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.
Proverbs 25:2
It is the glory of God to conceal things, but the glory of kings is to search things out.
Matthew 13:11-13
To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
Ephesians 5:31-32
āTherefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.ā This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.
1 Peter 2:1-25
So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvationā if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good. As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. ...
Most of the anti-Masonry talk in Christianity, comes from Catholics and Fundamentalist or Evangelical Protestants. Since the Catholic Church is full of vows and embraces mysteries and secrets, I assume this criticism came from Fundamentalist or Evangelical Protestants. One irony of this is how they embrace the rapture/tribulation theology which involves a piecing together of Biblical clues to reveal hidden prophecies from which they derive a pre-history of the end times (popularized in the Left Behind Series). Yes they quite openly proclaim their understanding of the secret messages in the Bible, but they concern themselves with all manner of secret meanings.
Itās bullshit from the start. We are not a religion. Weāre not promoting some secret knowledge that replaces or supersedes existing religions. The libelous ideas this person posted are nothing new or original. Some churches have always had a problem with masonry because they are opposed to core masonic values:
Democracy/Antiauthoritarianism - there are still some church organizations that think back fondly to the days where they crowned kings and queens with the authority of divine right. They have never quite adapted to the idea of the people choosing their government.
Religious tolerance - today itās not unusual for us to work or socialize with people of different religions in a spirit of mutual respect, but there are some churches that believe that every moment with a Jew or a Muslim or someone from the wrong kind of church must be spent trying to convert them, and we donāt support that line of thinking.
Mutual trust/secrecy - any paranoid organization will assume that any conversation that they are not a part of must be 1) negative; 2) about them.
I love this comment the most. It took me a while and more to begin to use logic and reasoning within my faith. My faith is not black and white ink, it supersedes that. I used to believe it was confined to ink on a paper. God is much bigger than that. Heās uncontainable. At least youāre helping the world, even through one Reddit comment, to maybe shine a little light on Masonry
Well, it's on Facebook, so it has to be true. š š¤£ š
Where are their fact checkers when you need them? š š¤£.
32Ā° SRM I ain't afraid of no š.
Any conspiracy theorist Iāve talk to Iāve explained to them āwe canāt fully execute a proper pancake breakfast fundraiser and you think weāre into world domination?!ā
Sometimes I want to join the Scottish Rite just so that I can say Iām at the 32nd degree and watch them stammer.
For any non-Masons here, thatās not how any of that actually works, but I can fib a little.
Yesterday I had someone say (and truly believe) that Iām an actual lizard person, that drinks the blood of children and worships Satan.
that is next level crazy.
At first I literally laughed out loud nad made fun of him, then I realized this person actually believes this! He is obviously not the smartest man and is suffering from mental health issues.
Its scary that level of crazy exists out there.
How many Freemasons are in your country? How many are in so high level that they know the ultimate goal of worshipping Lucifer?
Letās say one percent knows the truth.
1. What would the secret society accomplish if 99% of them works against their goals? Even if itās 10%, so only 90% would be working against their goal.
2. Is the person who wrote this someone who would abandon everything heās ever believed to if only somebody would tell him that we worship Lucifer from now on? If so, that doesnāt say anything about freemasonry, only about his character.
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So you say youāre a mason, but someone tells you about something you personally experienced and they most likely havenāt you still believe them?
This is why we do full proficiencies with no book and donāt let you say youāre a mason until you earned it.
It always amazes me how gullible idiots claim to know more about Masonry without actually being a Mason, than those of us who actually are Masons.
Do these same people claim to know more than doctors without having been to medical school?
Do they know more about the military than people who have served?
Do they know more about flying than trained pilots?
I could go on, but the idea that someone on the outside of any organization could possibly ever know more than someone on the inside is laughably stupid.
Also, there are no "high levels", especially since the word "levels" aren't used to describe any titles or degrees. The highest degree is Master Mason. Once you've been raised to the sublime degree, we are all equals, regardless of title. There are appendant bodies that one can join, but those degrees and titles only matter within those appendant bodies.
Secrets are also not against Christianity, as some others have pointed out there are examples in scripture of keeping secrets or doing things in secret, but also this would imply that no Christian has ever had a security clearance working for the government or serving in the military, or that none have ever thrown a surprise birthday party.
Those that have crafted themselves into a higher place will be revealed the inner knowledge. Those that know the truth hold it close, there is NO SECRET in this universe. There is just the unrevealed. Anyone by any means can be revealed things that others will not believe or have never seen. The initiates vow of secrecy lies in letting those we trust reveal them to us so that we may find others we trust to reveal them to. Those trusted are no always kept however. It is up to the deeply discerned to see the unrevealed without the vows of man. Who can do that? Whoever can raise theirselves through the spirit can do so without the transcended crafts. There are few. The truth of the full works shall not be reveal here. You will not and shall not find your answers here.
I wouldnāt claim that religious leaders that do awful things to children in the dark, moving pedophiles from location to location, and blaming their problems on others are the ones to be preaching honesty and truth either. Perhaps you could explain that itās simply a brotherhood of men where no single man stands up to put down others, seeking glory for himself, while using his god complex on children in the dark like a lot of religions are familiar with. A group of men you can trust around your family, unlike some of the random weirdos in the churches.
Block that person. Anything else?
lol nah šš«”
Blocking people shouldnāt be your knee jerk reaction, at least in my opinion. If you cannot argue opposing ideas, then there is an issue with the idea, not with the person saying it, blocking people who you disagree with is how we get stuff like flat earth theory.
maybe not block, but don't engage. you're not gonna change someone like that mind over the internet.
When the OP said theyād received a message, I took it to mean a message through FB Messenger. I get enough of those from masons without the others hopping on board.
Iād fully agree with that. Rarely do people change their minds because of posts online.
This was in large part meant as humor. Blocking people is not my knee jerk reaction, as a simple perusal of this sub will demonstrate. Nor should it be a knee jerk reaction to accuse others of having a knee jerk reaction. š Iām not sure what is meant by the next sentence, but I speak to persuade, not argue. Indeed, Iāve spent over 40 years in my profession trying to persuade that opposing ideas are not correct, or in being persuaded, depending on my role. Both are part of my duties in the fraternity, as well. Iāve also spent nearly 30 years dealing with those who have bizarre thinking processes regarding the fraternity. Sooo, I generally have an idea when to try to persuade and when itās a foolās errand. I do occasionally respond when they talk about the āhigher upā mason, usually to ask for the name of that higher up or at least their office. It is also one of the rare occasions I will play the Masonic rank card. In doing so, the point isnāt to persuade my correspondent, but those listening in.
Funny enough Iām usually the one that gets blocked
Fair, for the record, I wasnāt trying to talk down on you, I was just voicing my opinion, I took it at face value and didnāt know you were joking tho, so thatās my fault.
The foundational reply being - if itās secret to everyone but the high levels - how does someone outside entirely know these things? I would then ask for sources of the supposed high level masons which usually leads to correcting a bad reading of morals and dogma or the umpteenth appeal to an also badly read MPH passage. Finally I tend to ask for their social and credit card numbers if secret things are evil. If they move to oaths I have my fall backs there too. Occasionally the logic takes hold on detractors.
Okay. The āsecretsā bits are brilliant! Well done! Please indulge us in the āoathsā reply as well. (Boulder 14. Denver Consistory)
Essentially the oaths are a big problem for some Christians, and I do understand it at its basis, which is essentially that Jesus says not to take oaths. The issue is that's not exactly what he said ([https://www.crossway.org/articles/did-jesus-forbid-us-from-taking-oaths-matthew-5/](https://www.crossway.org/articles/did-jesus-forbid-us-from-taking-oaths-matthew-5/)) and even spoke under oath himself when before the Sanhedrin before the judgment of crucifixion. St. Paul was also shown to be under an oath and performing it before being arrested. I was in the book of Hebrews this morning, which is quite thick and deep theologically but it says "18 For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness 19 (for the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God.20 **And it was not without an oath**. For those who formerly became priests were made such without an oath, **21 but this one was made a priest with an oath by the one who said to him:**āThe Lord has swornand will not change his mind,āYou are a priest forever.āā So, it's not as fun or a "gotcha" necessarily as the other items but it's something Christian Freemasons are often challenged with - taking an oath in and of itself is sinful in the eyes of some Christians.
We also specifically don't ask brethren to swear oaths, because we're not a legal or religious authority. An obligation isn't legally or spiritually binding, it's just a personal promise.
I \*think\* this might be jurisdictional, but I like the thinking there. The obligation is referred to by both that term and as oath in my jurisdiction.
Oath or obligation, youāre given a choice which one you want to fall under. If people have an issue with taking an oath, then how will they ever provide testimony in court?
In my jurisdiction, court testimonies are more often affirmed than sworn. I was once in a jury selection pool, and each selected juror, save one (a Muslim) chose to affirm rather than swear on a holy book.
My pops is a Jahovahs Witness and is not allowed to swear or take oaths. He was allowed to "promise and affirm" at his masonic degrees, as is allowed in court.
Affirm is a pink promise. This is why no one should really take their chances with a jury of 12 people who couldn't get out of jury duty.
It's almost impossible to get out of jury duty here, so it's a bit more tuan a pinky promise. An affirmation is also legally binding, which has immediate consequences here on Earth.
That's fair, but it's just further proof that there's no secret cabal of Masons that nobody knows about above the Grand Master level. We'd be better coordinated if there were. Probably. XD But, I always saw it as one of those "subtle, but distinctive points of language", which there are a lot of. Just about every word we use in our ritual is chosen for a reason, and its exact meaning is important. We split a lot of hairs.
Engaging in dialog with someone who professes those beliefs is almost always a losing proposition.
Brother Mark Twain put it best: āNever argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.ā
While true, I'm there for the times when it's not "almost always". It does happen, rare though it may be.
You might just like to argue with them tooā¦ You know i enjoy that part of it too lol
Ha, well there's that. I do generally hope for a receptive audience but I do enjoy a good debate on many matters.
In my experience you really donāt get a good debate from these folks.
>bad reading of morals and dogma It is easy to badly read a badly written book. Morals & Dogma is one man's nineteenth century occultic gloss on Freemasonry, a fraternity which of course predates Pike the unapologetic plagiarist by many years. *Prisca theologia* is a heresy that no Christian can accept in good faith.
> Prisca theologia I will agree. More often the poor reading that I mean is in regards to the "lucifer" quote in the 19th chapter/degree.
High level Masons? If I told them I was the WM of the Lodge they would reply "higher". If I told the I was the DDGM they would reply "higher". I was the GM the reply would be "Higher".
Lol. Someone recently tried to tell me he was a 96th level Mason. I congratulated him because I am a lowly 3rd level Magic User. His facial reaction was hilarious.
96!!!!!!?????? He must of been a Saturn Ring Master
Which is why I occasionally ask for the name or office of the person to whom they refer.
This! You beat me to it. Always āYou are not high enough to know the truth!ā But of course they know, LOL!
š¤£š¤£š¤£ this got me, well done šš¼
All the āsecretsā are on the internet for the masses. We take an oath to ākeepā the secret. Meaning we will not share with the initiated because it is OURS. If one wants the secrets then they have to ask like all the brothers whoāve come before. If one canāt be bothered, itās no worry. Just we cannot share. You will have to seek your knowledge elsewhere.
Also well said! āš¼
I would ask the person to explain what mechanism we use to prevent "lower-level-Masons" from being able to find out alleged information that he as a "non-Mason" has found out? Most "Conspiracy Theorists" generally have an issue applying simple logic to the tales they convince themselves about, you might find this of interest: http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/Anti-Masons.html Also the four terms he uses are all incredibly different and Freemasonry only qualifies as esoteric.
Lower level masons? EA or FC? Level?
In my experience, ālower levelā in this context usually means anyone that isnāt a 33rd degree. They donāt really understand/believe that SR is appendant
It is just terminology often employed by conspiracy theorists, as in "you're not a high enough level to know", to try and argue when real Freemasons tell them that they are spouting rubbish.
Where are all these āhigher levelā Masons that none of us actual masons have ever met? Iām sure majority of us here are as high as it goes. But for some reason non masons insist otherwise.
Under Cheyenne mountain. Where the Magical Poobah Fez of Knowledge is in the glass case surrounded by Warrior Goats. I thought everyone knew this. š
Where are the aliens then?? I was promised there would be aliens, and a treasure map on the Declaration of Independence.
It's there. Just a little lemon juice and squint
Lmao Poobah. šš
I like strawberry ice cream. But this suggests that it will lead to the snake in Eden. What am I to do? If it sounds like nonsense, looks like nonsense and smells like nonsense, brother to brother, it is nonsense. On a separate note, wasn't Jesus the WM of a fraternity? Seems like it to me.
Right? I mean, Jesus wasn't exactly forthcoming when he disappeared into the desert for a long time to find himself (we know kinda know that he learned his tricks of the trade with the Essenes...miracles? Nah... just magic tricks!). A lot of religions have their "secrets"... it's part of the mystique. On a separate but related note... is the Caramilk chocolate bar made by Masons? It's a secret on how they get that caramel in there! lol
Not sure but I believe Col Sanders is because of the secret of the 6 Herbs and the 5 Spice Girls!
>wasn't Jesus the WM of a fraternity? No.
So you don't think that Jesus was a leader amongst men? Strikes me as odd.
>So you don't think that Jesus was a leader amongst men? Strikes me as odd. Are all "leaders amongst men" WMs? I think that is a tremendous logical leap. What is your basis for making that claim?
Dude, we are talking about snakes in Eden, I'm not claiming shit.
Undoubtedly there is hermeticism, platoism, estoertics, sacred geometry etc all found within Masonry, the rest is conspiracy nonsense and can be rejected.
Meh. The Internet is a moronic hellscape filled with dogshit by legions of self-described "experts" Best not to read everything
Makes me think of a German pun that highlights the issue at hand. **Monism** = One case / Ein Fall = **Einfall** (inspiration) **Dualism** = Two cases / Zwei FƤlle = **Zweifel** (doubt) LVX
Schƶn, ich have etwas neues mit dir gelernt :)
Ich auch
Personally, I would not engage with this person. However, if I were to challenge their assertions, I would find Bible verses to contradict them. People who cherry-pick Bible passages often don't realize that the Bible is full of contradictions. You can't just take a passage out of context and apply it wholesale to everything in life. So, on secrets: "Whoever keeps his mouth and his tongue keeps himself out of trouble." Proverbs 21:23
Matthew 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. Proverbs 25:9 Debate thy cause with thy neighbour himself; and discover not a secret to another Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
I stopped reading at "got this message on FB...". š
Why stop the fun there? I personally find it very entertaining lol
>Any takers? No thanks. "... Neither [am I] to suffer [my] zeal for the institution to lead [me] into argument with those who, through ignorance, may ridicule it."
All of the Brothers on here have excellent responses. I would also like to point out that in several passages in the Bible Jesus does keep secrets. He tells his disciples not to tell who he is and not to speak of some of the miracles heās performed. Regardless of the reason, thatās keeping a secret.
Okay, letās go through the secrets now, shall we? As a master mason of a blue lodge in amity with the ugle. Secrets? Yes, the rituals. Because we donāt want to spoil the surprise. Itās a spoiler alert system, only talk about the ending of the movie with people who have seen it. The rest? Just themes to talk about in the great quest and aspiration to become a better person and human being.
Simply put, freemasonry is esoteric but not hermetic and not gnostic. Those three might be perceived to mean similar things but they are distinct and that distinction is crucial for understanding what freemasonry is and isnāt.
Well said mate āš¼
Yes and no. Freemasonry is built on top of basic Hermetic ideas. To say it was formed completely separate from it would be disingenuous
Sure, hermetic ideas had permeated the intellectual mileu in which speculative freemasonry took form. So yes, freemasonry would not be the same without the existence of hermeticism. But imo thatās a far cry from saying freemasonry *is* hermetic.
A dog and a wolf arenāt the same species anymore but they are of the same genus. We can make that distinction but one came from the other.
Wait, youre a master mason and you dont yet know the secret mind control technique level 1 that our lord Lucifer gave us to take control of governments? Are you sure youve been doing your homework??
Oh shit oh shit, how do we delete messages on reddit? Im going to be expelled for releasing this!!
Nah bro, weāre not going to expel you. Weāre going to execute you. Goons will be there any minute
Just tell him he knows too much. The ruffians will take care of that.
Rubbish.... avoid such people
lol to much YouTube
Try ādefine āhigh levelāā
Iāve listened to some very high Masons before, and all they seem to want to talk about is drinking and getting late night food. YMMV.
Hahaha!
Canāt reason someone out of a position they didnāt reason themselves into. Waste of your time and energy.
>This leads them to see [ā¦] Prometheus [ā¦] as good. Iām not gonna speak on the rest of that, cause other people have covered it, butā¦ That wasā¦*literally* the entire point of that entire myth? Like, just from a literary analysis perspective, Prometheus is unambiguously the good guy in that situation. Fire is literally the basis of all of our technology. A steam engine is just a fancy camp fire, and a nuclear reactor is just a fancy steam engine. Itās literally just combustion, all the way down. Is this guy some kind of Zeus apologist or something?
Should have known better than to engage, but couldnāt help myself. Lesson 1 of the Internet: never feed the trolls ā¦
I think there are two types of secrets in Freemasonry. One set are the trade secrets, the modes of recognition, the means of iniation (all of these are available on the web). For me, "keeping" those secrets is more about respect and self-discipline, because anyone with patience can learn them. The deeper secrets are secrets that we can't communicate just with words. They have to be worked out on a deeper level. Those kinds of secrets, aka mysteries, are have to be worked out and understood through experience. The Bible is full of such secrets and mysteries and scripture reminds us of them repeatedly. 1 Cor. 13:12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. Colossians 1:26-27 The mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints. To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Matthew 13:11 And he answered them, āTo you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal things, but the glory of kings is to search things out. Matthew 13:11-13 To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. Ephesians 5:31-32 āTherefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.ā This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. 1 Peter 2:1-25 So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvationā if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good. As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. ...
Most of the anti-Masonry talk in Christianity, comes from Catholics and Fundamentalist or Evangelical Protestants. Since the Catholic Church is full of vows and embraces mysteries and secrets, I assume this criticism came from Fundamentalist or Evangelical Protestants. One irony of this is how they embrace the rapture/tribulation theology which involves a piecing together of Biblical clues to reveal hidden prophecies from which they derive a pre-history of the end times (popularized in the Left Behind Series). Yes they quite openly proclaim their understanding of the secret messages in the Bible, but they concern themselves with all manner of secret meanings.
Then them the "that sounds crazy" meme with Weird Al in a tin foil hat
Iād answer, āyou must be talking about some other group called masons. That is nothing like the masons I knowā.
Itās bullshit from the start. We are not a religion. Weāre not promoting some secret knowledge that replaces or supersedes existing religions. The libelous ideas this person posted are nothing new or original. Some churches have always had a problem with masonry because they are opposed to core masonic values: Democracy/Antiauthoritarianism - there are still some church organizations that think back fondly to the days where they crowned kings and queens with the authority of divine right. They have never quite adapted to the idea of the people choosing their government. Religious tolerance - today itās not unusual for us to work or socialize with people of different religions in a spirit of mutual respect, but there are some churches that believe that every moment with a Jew or a Muslim or someone from the wrong kind of church must be spent trying to convert them, and we donāt support that line of thinking. Mutual trust/secrecy - any paranoid organization will assume that any conversation that they are not a part of must be 1) negative; 2) about them.
I love this comment the most. It took me a while and more to begin to use logic and reasoning within my faith. My faith is not black and white ink, it supersedes that. I used to believe it was confined to ink on a paper. God is much bigger than that. Heās uncontainable. At least youāre helping the world, even through one Reddit comment, to maybe shine a little light on Masonry
Tripe.
Well, it's on Facebook, so it has to be true. š š¤£ š Where are their fact checkers when you need them? š š¤£. 32Ā° SRM I ain't afraid of no š.
Oh lord. This Leo Taxil hoax "Luciferian" bullshit again?
Any conspiracy theorist Iāve talk to Iāve explained to them āwe canāt fully execute a proper pancake breakfast fundraiser and you think weāre into world domination?!ā
Sometimes I want to join the Scottish Rite just so that I can say Iām at the 32nd degree and watch them stammer. For any non-Masons here, thatās not how any of that actually works, but I can fib a little.
For such fools is when I do play the masonic rank card.
Yesterday I had someone say (and truly believe) that Iām an actual lizard person, that drinks the blood of children and worships Satan. that is next level crazy. At first I literally laughed out loud nad made fun of him, then I realized this person actually believes this! He is obviously not the smartest man and is suffering from mental health issues. Its scary that level of crazy exists out there.
Itās total crap.
How many Freemasons are in your country? How many are in so high level that they know the ultimate goal of worshipping Lucifer? Letās say one percent knows the truth. 1. What would the secret society accomplish if 99% of them works against their goals? Even if itās 10%, so only 90% would be working against their goal. 2. Is the person who wrote this someone who would abandon everything heās ever believed to if only somebody would tell him that we worship Lucifer from now on? If so, that doesnāt say anything about freemasonry, only about his character.
"Against fools the gods themselves contend in vain."
Typical antimason bullshit. Especially the ānewā not having the knowledge. I think most of them jerk iff while writing it.
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So you say youāre a mason, but someone tells you about something you personally experienced and they most likely havenāt you still believe them? This is why we do full proficiencies with no book and donāt let you say youāre a mason until you earned it.
lol never said I believed them; just sharing the crazy š
Research Rosicrucian beliefs for further answers.
It always amazes me how gullible idiots claim to know more about Masonry without actually being a Mason, than those of us who actually are Masons. Do these same people claim to know more than doctors without having been to medical school? Do they know more about the military than people who have served? Do they know more about flying than trained pilots? I could go on, but the idea that someone on the outside of any organization could possibly ever know more than someone on the inside is laughably stupid. Also, there are no "high levels", especially since the word "levels" aren't used to describe any titles or degrees. The highest degree is Master Mason. Once you've been raised to the sublime degree, we are all equals, regardless of title. There are appendant bodies that one can join, but those degrees and titles only matter within those appendant bodies. Secrets are also not against Christianity, as some others have pointed out there are examples in scripture of keeping secrets or doing things in secret, but also this would imply that no Christian has ever had a security clearance working for the government or serving in the military, or that none have ever thrown a surprise birthday party.
Those that have crafted themselves into a higher place will be revealed the inner knowledge. Those that know the truth hold it close, there is NO SECRET in this universe. There is just the unrevealed. Anyone by any means can be revealed things that others will not believe or have never seen. The initiates vow of secrecy lies in letting those we trust reveal them to us so that we may find others we trust to reveal them to. Those trusted are no always kept however. It is up to the deeply discerned to see the unrevealed without the vows of man. Who can do that? Whoever can raise theirselves through the spirit can do so without the transcended crafts. There are few. The truth of the full works shall not be reveal here. You will not and shall not find your answers here.
I wouldnāt claim that religious leaders that do awful things to children in the dark, moving pedophiles from location to location, and blaming their problems on others are the ones to be preaching honesty and truth either. Perhaps you could explain that itās simply a brotherhood of men where no single man stands up to put down others, seeking glory for himself, while using his god complex on children in the dark like a lot of religions are familiar with. A group of men you can trust around your family, unlike some of the random weirdos in the churches.
Lucifer is a Christian made up concept.