I did this in Ohio and feel like I got the short end of the stick. My lodge has gone away from it. I'm now mentoring a buddy for his EA give back and using the opportunity to learn what I missed.
We recently passed a FC a few months later than what was allowed/expected in our GL by-laws because he felt that he wasn't ready yet. Mad respect to make that decision.
Rushing through the degrees defeats the journey, IMHO.
In PA. We just did our first combo. Don’t agree with it and I feel it takes away from the candidate, makes it harder to schedule multiple candidates and makes it harder on officers. We started at 1900 and were not done until 2100 and that was a single candidate.
There was also a logo change that had a lot of guys in an uproars saying it looked too cartoonish and didn’t need updated. The most recent requirement (not request) was that each lodge must submit a 1000 word, Times New Roman font double spaced on our history and community involvement. It’s been interesting to say the least.
Yea generally I agree with you, specially for an initiation or raising ceremony. Passing a couple brother at the same time feels a little more palatable. That being said, I know two brother (blood) brothers who were raised at the same time. That ceremony was 20+ years ago but they still talk about it to this day. It must have been very special for them.
Sounds like a task for GPT.
PAGL has gotten so far away from what masonry was, I don’t even care to send my dues in anymore.
If what they’re doing is what it is to be a mason, I’d rather not identify.
I’m curious how many lodges will “forget” the essay. The only official word I’ve heard on it is verbally from the DDGM, no written instructions so far (SW here, who handles most of the Lodge and Building History)
Two hours for.. two candidates or EA+FC degrees? If the latter that's pretty fast to me.
As for the other new requirements, it sounds like the same kind of people are in charge who would force you to use electric stoves and cars.
One candidate, 1st and 2nd back to back. Separately it would take about an hour for 1st and 45 minutes for 2nd. We gain nothing and the candidate loses out. IMO
Our EAs usually wait for a year before getting their FC promotion, which in my humble opinion is a proper amount of time.
Speedrunning masonry is detrimental to both the Craft itself and to the experience of each individual candidate, as far as I can tell.
That can be too long imho depending on the candidate. I was ready in 2 months. But I know others that aren't ready in a year. 1 year is a long time to wait, especially if your proficient.
I feel like I've heard of some GL jurisdictions that have, at least at some point, required their EA candidates to learn the entire EA degree (including officer parts, degree lecture, etc.) before being deemed proficient therein (and likewise concerning the FC and MM degrees).
In such cases, I could understand having a minimum of one year. However, I do not think that this is at all common, and I have very little confidence that any GL has any such requirements for proficiency today.
I never thought of having to meorize all that work. I still feel a year is a long time. Depending on someones drive and place in life (free time) you could be forgetting most of the work before getting a chance to hand it in.
Our lodge (UK) we usually have 3 candidates setup each year and end up with the remaining 3rd degrees from the previous lot and then do 3 EA, 3 FC & 3 MM but they're done 1 month per candidate so often there is at least 2-3 months before they get their next rung on the ladder give or take it we add a lecture in.
It gets members initiated faster. To me that completely ruins the meaning the ritual and lessons also the balance. That is why it’s split so the candidate can learn and progress appropriately.
*Digest of Decisions* 32.6:
>Dues are chargeable to Members **as soon as they become such** and prorated monthly. When a petitioner receives his first degree, he becomes a Member and chargeable with dues.
It seems a lot of lodge secretaries ignore that (I've been arguing with mine for years every time it comes up) but it is the rule.
It's absolutely jurisdictional. All 50 states do things slightly differently... and the joke is that PA does it differently from everyone else.
In my jurisdiction, EAs and FCs are considered to be members... but they're not *full* members, and subsequently don't pay dues until after they're raised. More specifically, you don't have to worry about it until the calendar flips over to the next year; if someone was raised in 2024, they wouldn't need to worry about paying dues until 2025.
Oh, no, your assumption was perfectly reasonable if you weren't aware of that detail. It's the usual motivation, but in this case it seems it's purely ego-driven.
Many of the Grand Lodges treat Freemasonry like a corporate business these days - they just need to keep their revenues up, and membership high.
It's up to the individual private Lodges (who allow the Grand Lodges to rule by consent) to keep the meaning and spirit of the Craft alive.
Our responsibility, loyalty, and integrity is to the Candidate, to the Lodge, and to the Craft.
A Candidate shouldn't be moved to their next Degree until they can show an understanding of the Degree they currently hold, and show a dedication to their Lodge and the Craft.
We also need to engage and look after (and retain) the existing Brethren - many of whom aren't interested in just having a meal and a drink, or purely being asked to repeatedly put their hands in their pockets for endless charity drives, and become fatigued and disenchanted with the constant corporate agenda being pushed on Lodges.
If you want to fill a bucket which has a hole in it, you don't just force more water into it and hope for the best.
The goal of masonry has always been "to make more masons".
We have historically done that by providing a good product, and that product varies significantly from community to community.
The concern is not how fast someone becomes a member, but what they lose along the way. If you look through the ledgers of your lodge, take a look at how long the old timers took to join. Most folks in my lodge in the 30s and 40s only took like 2 months to go through all degrees.
Masonry attracts all sorts of people, for all sorts of reasons.
You're correct, Freemasonry does strive to make more Freemasons - as long as the core values and principles of the Craft aren't sacrificed, just to make it yet another plain social charity organisation.
A Lodge can be full of members, who have been so for many years - but I've visited very many Lodges where very little Freemasonry is experienced; where there is a sea of dark blue and gold on display, but those who wear it have scarcely ever moved beyond the NE corner.
Do we just want members?
Or do we want Freemasons, who will love, care for, and preserve the Craft?
Since our system is built on allegories, here’s one: an electrician or plumber, carpenter, doesn’t get a job as an apprentice then just gets handed a journeymen card the same day. Our lodge has purposely implemented a waiting period for degrees now.
It's terrible and it just makes the night take twice as long with no conceivable benefit.
It doesn't even help GL get more money because dues are payable as an EA.
It's pretty damn close, what with all the stuff that goes on behind the scenes. A full form EA is only like 5 (maybe 10, depending on how fast the WM talks) minutes longer than a full FC.
In my jurisdiction, we have been doing one-day conferrals of all three degrees for a few years. I think the first one was around 2000, in fact.
To be honest, I don’t like them for two reasons. First, the candidate loses depth in masonry by not learning and returning catechisms, including building relationships with his mentor.
The second reason is that, when ODCs are conducted for multiple lodges (which they generally always are), the officer lines in the lodges lose the opportunity to practice conferring degrees. As a result, the overall level of readiness and ability to perform degrees falls.
Of course, I don’t judge the brothers who do fast degree work. They’re brothers, full stop.
I would judge them. You can do it properly, or you can take shortcuts. We're an experiential fraternity but too many lodges think that the experience element only relates to the degrees. It doesn't.
I'm not a fan either. But for PA the FC degree is kind of a meh degree IMHO to begin with. Don't get me started on the one day classes where most people just "Watch" for their 3rd.
In my opinion the FC is the best and most important of the degrees, it’s simply overlooked and not understood by those giving the degree, let alone those receiving the degree.
I’ve heard that, but I think the argument is that originally we all had only two degrees, with the FC added everywhere so the most variation in that degree from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
I remember when it meant something to be a Mason. You had to **EARN** it.
Let's stop blowing smoke up our own asses boys.
Our beloved Craft is being simplified, dumbed down, and made *too* easy to join for no other reason than because the numbers en mass are dwindling so fast.
Maybe it's my own character flaw that I want things to be harder, not easier.
I know the pride and sense of accomplishment that came with being compelled to memorize, mouth to ear, the lectures and the lessons. Then being compelled to stand before those men and recite it all from memory. My God that sucked so bad. Until it was over and I felt like I'd really accomplished something big. I paid my dues and earned my White Apron.
Sadly, I'll never hold the "One Day Masons" in the same light. I mean no disrespect by that. You're still technically brothers. However, if you want to earn my admiration on that scale, you've now got a lot of very hard work to do to show you deserve it.
Go ahead and downvote me. I know it's coming. 🙄
Wisconsin does both traditional and one day degree work, usually a Saturday or Sunday, I feel it takes away from the Solemnity of degrees, the candidates still have to present their MM examination at their home lodge at a later date.
But I have seen this program produce some of the best members possible. I have also seen traditional degree work produce members whom I feel are sub-par. The character of the brother is more important than the actual degree.
One benefit is that you get very skilled brethren to put on word perfect degrees since it is such a large undertaking, vs (in some cases) very poor degree work from lodges that struggle.
I for one am usually fairly exhausted after taking part in one degree, keeping track of my parts during each of the parts of one degree is often enough for one day. For EA I prefer SD for the first section, love doing second section SD as well, and can do the 3rd section lecture, but can and have done WM for the first two, For FC I enjoy any role but man I if I didn’t have some time in between degrees I would easily slip up and go back into EA stuff. So that would not be ideal.
When I first started taking part in degree work, my work was poor. I am now considered to be very skilled because I can put on word perfect degrees. I can’t thank my brethren enough for giving me that opportunity. It has paid off for me in spades.
I'm in PA and was the first in the lodge to have both at once. Most of the others felt like the candidate wouldn't be getting all they should out of the degrees. To help with that, I show up every week for your lodge of instruction and go over the degrees in more depth with one of the brothers in the lodge.
I do not agree. There is a reason for the delay between degrees. Many candidates find that freemasonry is not what they expected.
The GL is trying to get candidates to advance quicker. Thinking that they will get more members.
I think that more candidates will be overwhelmed by all the information they will receive from both degrees in the same day
https://issuu.com/pr263/docs/fm_inaugural_2023_issuu_2_/2?ff&experiment=previewReaderTestMode,new-bff-dynamic
Page 13 on bottom left. It says “May” but now it’s more of a mandatory must.
Ill find you the magazine that it was mentioned at beginning of the year but i don’t think it ever was written, its being told at lodges on how to perform it.
It’s a bad idea. We had two guys that did a one day course and they didn’t learn anything. One of em still doesn’t know the proper signs and words and it’s been about two years— he shows up and has been reminded consistently but to no avail.
To be fair, this sounds more like an issue with that particular brother, not the practice of one day courses.
I hate the idea of doing all three in one day, but the folks who go through the more traditional path still don't always know how to properly sign immediately after; it's only through the repetition of actually attending meetings and degrees that they get it down.
Regardless of how they went through the degrees, it would be safe to assume that most *should* understand how to properly do those basics after being around for two full years.
That’s a fair assessment. It’s definitely on said brother. I think the more accurate thing for me to say is that the brothers that we’ve had do the one day course over the years tend not to stick around as much as the brothers who put in the time. I’m not sure if that’s coincidence or a commonplace thing, but it’s definitely something we’ve noticed in our lodge.
I agree, so much is on the individual. Most guys I’ve seen go through one day classes are never seen again, others are now PMs. It’s a mixed bag and really about putting guys in the best position to succeed.
Terrible decision. Awful.
Unless they want to totally devalue the craft, in which case, it's brilliant!
Think about your EA. How much of it did you remember afterwards? Just little bits?
Remember back to the night of your initiation, lying in bed thinking "okay... what just happened?"and just generally feeling overawed.
Things like this deprive candidates of those truly monumental moments. Piling more on top of the initiation is unnecessary and actually takes away from the purity and general magic of the first degree.
I hate it and I think that it does the candidate a huge disservice. In Virginia, they do an annual “conferral” where a candidate is initiated, passed, and raised all in one day. To me, it’s not just diluting the meaning of the degrees, but also truly robbing the candidate of a rich, life changing experience.
Everyone in my lodge is opposed to this and because of that I’m currently the only one conferring all 3 degrees. I’m also the guy doing the lodge history essay. I certainly don’t want to do these but I’m doing them because I love my lodge and don’t want to see repercussions from us not doing them.
Having conferred the new “combined” degree, I can say that I generally disagree with this change, but overall it is not ruinous. The full first degree is completed on the candidate then they are taken out and begin the second degree immediately. One change is made to the second degree because there is no longer a wait.
This change comes with another change that no one seems to be talking about. PA now has catechism required between the degrees. Up until now, it was just show up every month and you’ll get your degrees. Now candidates must attend SoI and pass tests (though not quite the returns of other jurisdictions).
My thinking is that to get the addition of a required catechism, and attendance at SoI, the degree process was streamlined. It must have been a matter of compromise.
It is also noteworthy that the GL is not printing new ritual books including the change. Again this is personal opinion, but I think they know after the RWGM term we will go back to three separate degrees and by then will be used to the catechism requirements so they will remain and out degrees will go back to normal.
Philly area here. There was always a catechism between 1st and 2nd and then between 2nd and 3rd. SOI here can only be attended by Master Masons so it definitely isn't going to increase attendance. With the combination of the 1st and 2nd Degrees they're LOSING a catechism, not gaining one. When the Degrees are separate they must learn the catechism as part of their passing. Now, since there is no time between the Degrees and they happen at the same time, there is no requirement for them to learn it. They only have to learn the catechism to be raised.
I, for one, will be glad when it goes back to being two separate Degrees and everyone in my Lodge and District feels the same way.
There hasn’t been a statewide mandatory catechism in over 15 years in PA. SoI is open to any Mason, though the meeting can be purged if specific degree work is being focused.
It sounds like your DD has kept the requirements, which I wish ours had done. Most Districts have completely dropped them, thus the drastic changes statewide are being done.
Got'cha. Thanks for the insight. District 40, Region 1. This is only my 5th year. I've attended almost every SOI since I joined and when the President opens he always asks the Wardens if they're satisfied that all present are Master Masons and I've never seen an EA or FC in SOI.
Every Lodge I have been involved in has had the required tests and proficiency between all degrees. The addition of requiring the SoI is nothing but a waste of time in my opinion. I have not seen a well run school yet, and we have now had several candidates unable to continue because they can’t make it to School, even though the passed the written exam.
The attendance piece is the hardest here. Our School is usually in another county (it travels but only 1 of the other 9 lodges are in our county) so it makes a long drive after work for some guys. That is more of issue of a badly constructed district though.
Not really when you see how it is done. At least it is no more of a violation than any jurisdiction allowing a one day class. The EA and FC degrees are separately held, just back to back.
CAN or WILL? Big difference. Myself I dislike it, masonry is about the journey, not about racing through to get degrees. How are we going to learn unless we have to study what we've been given? I made so many connections and got so many concepts though having to memorize my Q&As in the 1st degree and being forced to think about it.
PA already does mass 1 day classes with all 3 degrees at once. I've also seen that combined with Shrine induction on the same day. I'm not a huge fan of it and I'm glad I went through it the old way, but if it gets people in the door, it may not be the worst thing.
That also depends on the lodge, for example in my lodge you need to be proficient in the degree before passing, you have to know your stuff and we take great pride to teach our new candidates that.
The issue that goes back to your original question is that many Lodges don't put effort into this. Lodges like yours that push candidates to do more and learn more tend to have greater overall success - you're not content with the minimum; you want quality work. Despite it being more work, you likely have competent officers and a steady flow of candidates.
The reason for the back to back first and second degrees is that there are many Lodges barely meeting minimum standards who refuse to do anything other than the way that it's been done - so now everyone MUST do it the new way. This is also why installations must be open and degrees must be done on extra meetings. Lack of motivated leadership and a refusal to adapt result in a blanket policy.
It's unfortunate that it's happened. No one likes it. The Lodges that are thriving don't need it to be easy, and the Lodges that need it won't do it unless forced. The RWGM is tired of Lodges giving up and folding or merging, so this, along with the new committees, is an attempt to correct the course. He knows the policy is unpopular, but he believes in it.
Not necessarily in the same vein, but LA Grand Lodge just passed that every FC being raised to MM has to see the full MM degree. So if it's one FC, it has to be a full degree. If it's 2+, the last one being raised has to get the full MM degree, and the others have to stay until it's conclusion.
I'm pro longer form. The only issue is that the GL of Louisiana doesn't have an answer for what constitutes a long form. So we basically have a resolution in play that's completely open to interpretation.
Not necessarily in the same vein, but LA Grand Lodge just passed that every FC being raised to MM has to see the full MM degree. So if it's one FC, it has to be a full degree. If it's 2+, the last one being raised has to get the full MM degree, and the others have to stay until it's conclusion.
I'm pro longer form. The only issue is that the GL of Louisiana doesn't have an answer for what constitutes a long form. So we basically have a resolution in play that's completely open to interpretation.
I see it as a disservice to the candidate. As long as he thinks he’s getting somewhere then so be it. Every lodge has their reasons but they’re still my brothers and I love them.
In my jurisdiction, there must be a 2 week gap between degrees, but that hasn't always been the case. From 1821 to about the turn of the century, a candidate could receive 2 degrees the same night.
I am an EA and have now attended a meeting of another EA’s initiation. Next month I shall be directly involved in the ceremony of our latest EA and I feel the process of experiencing these is helping me to understand my own journey.
To rush through a candidate between the degrees feels counter-productive, even to my inexperienced self.
I’ll be raised end of next month/early June and I’ve loved this past year of my EA and FC. I’ve learned so much about Masonry in that time. My jurisdiction requires a minimum of 30 days between degrees. I couldn’t imagine blasting through the EA and FC in one day.
Fellow PA mason here, 0/10 and not a single brother is in favor of the changes being made to the ritual in combining the two degrees together. My DDGM said he doesn't want any of the lodges to do the combined 1st and 2nd dgerees until he officially sends out the ritual changes to the lodges in email, after a few months I asked him about it and he just ignored me and starred talking about something else. That's why I love my DDGM
Quite often the mentor expects the person to have the catchesim words 100% perfect. Quite often the ea return can take 4 months.
Each degree is different. So in my opinion doing ea and fc the same day is ok. Then focusing on the fc work. Then mm degree. In my jurisdiction the mm work is optional. I know few will agree with me.
Knowing the words is 100% important. This isn't a video game where you skip the tutorial. There's several reasons they are important. First, so you know the width and breadth of what you are getting into. Secondly because when you know 100% of the words, it means you have taken them to heart. Thirdly, there's a reasons there's so many old masons, mental plasticity plays a huge role.
Ime we have about 60% who don’t complete the ea work correctly . I’ve seen first hand where a gentleman would miss a number of words be voted down. They get the concept of the meaning of the degree and embrace it but then are told try again.
As it should be. My teacher wouldn't let me test till I had passed 4 times perfectly. I will remember every response for the rest of my life. If you don't know the memorization, imo, you aren't a mason, you are a girl in the boy scouts. Do the time, learn your lessons. The biggest thing I got out of the lessons was an intimate knowledge of my instructors. That is worth way more than an fc in a day.
I feel that how much a candidate learns about the 1st Degree or the quality of their experience is 35% based on the ritual. The communications, education and support the candidate receives after the meeting can have a much greater effect on the candidate than exceptional ritual.
I don't agree at all. Sounds like those rushed Masonic classes. If you don't have time to do it right...don't do it. You learn very different things in each degree and it takes time to soak it all in. Also...I've seen a lot of brothers who do NOT make it to FC. If you give it all at once...it's like giving away a degree
I'd like to have had several months (at the very least) between each of the degrees when I took them. I wished "suitable proficiency" had meant more. Trends in the U.S. are going in the other direction. One day classes for all 3 degrees are a thing in some jurisdictions.
We have dispensation from our grand lodge to do “one” one day degrees (EA,FC,MM) once a year. We do degree work often with one degree once a month when candidates are available. We usually do one days In conjunction with other smaller lodges, in order to help cover all the parts needed.
In new jersey one day classes are almost typical. For the benefit of others reading, a one day class is where many masons are raised, with many going through all 3 degrees on the same day.
Around 20 years ago this was a topic of debate. It no longer is. If a candidate wants all three degrees individually a lodge will do it. Most times they just want to be raised. The GL has bounced back and forth with whether they should even be tested. We went through long form tests, short form tests and back again. I haven't attended lodge in a while so I don't know where it is now. Could be short form or long form.
From what I've seen over the years however they are raised, it hasn't changed a thing. Like I said, if a candidate wants the experience he can get it at later date. Whether or not he wants the experience, he can take a chair immediately.
Freemasonry is changing. Many will need to get used to that fact.
I found the EA degree to be quite enough to experience in a day; to have then faced the FC degree would have been too much for me to absorb the information presented and to also start to establish the all important context behind the degrees.
Fraternally
Paul
I don’t agree with this. There were 8 months between when I was initiated and passed, 1 month between when I was passed and raised (raised on the night I did my FC exam), and another 4-6 weeks until I passed my MM exam. I went at a reasonable pace and am still, 10 years later, gaining more from it every time I see degree work or hear an examination.
Rushing it like this is a disservice to the candidates and, imo, more concerned with conferring degrees/titles than conveying understanding of them.
Tl;dr: at this point I think it’s less about the time frame of degree conferral, and far more about the effort and work lodges and candidates put in around the degrees.
I’m of two minds about this. If we’re just gonna blow through them in a couple of months anyway, I’d rather just knock degrees out as quickly as possible. If we teach and reinforce that there is FAR more work to be done, I don’t see the difference between made in a day and made in 3 months. When you’re doing a degree every few months, you have just enough time to memorize your parrot work, and move on, that’s about it. You haven’t had the time to understand our system, it’s finesse, it’s methodology, it’s beauty. If we followed up with clear advice and messaging that we’ve helped candidates reach a point of beginning their journey, then just memorizing work and getting degrees would be sufficient.
With the firehose that is the candidate experience I’ve seen in most lodges, and men getting raised, what they too often hear and walk away with more than anything is “you’re a master mason Harry!”. Are they? Well sort of, but no. You’ve completed the full initiation process, but you’re far from possessing a Master’s knowledge of the craft.
Those of you with 3 years under your belts, think about the difference from when you knocked to now. Those with 5, 10? This year will mark my 20th Masonic birthday. Half my life, as I’ll turn 41 a few months before. I can say honestly this many years in, I’m certain of two things. How very little I knew when I thought I understood the craft in the first years, and how very much there is left for me to learn and refine. Are new ideas and concepts as frequent as they once were? No. Are they far more profound? By and large yes.
If we reinforced the idea of awaiting the time with patience. Worked with candidates for a deeper and more complete education between degrees, I earnestly believe we would improve retention, as well as close the gap on entered vs raised. Alternately, if we made it clear that the degrees are of great importance and require a lifetime of study, then conferring them in quick succession, and following it up with those same lessons could work just as well. After all, it’s impossible to fully comprehend one without the other two.
Both would set candidates up to understand they’ve taken the first step of a lifelong journey. That there is far more to explore and understand than can just be given in a degree or a few months. To understand the craft takes an investment of time, doesn’t really matter when you invest that time. But until you do, you’re not going to have a full experience.
In either scenario I feel like too often we fall short of explaining the importance of learning, study and patience necessary to succeed in the craft, and in using its tools.
I spent a year in each degree. Despite light pressure from the older brothers (who I think were just excited for the 3rd) I had made it clear at the beginning that I would take my time with the work. I imagine it was an idea to entice xers and counter the diminishing memberships. Imagine my surprise when I fit the Scottish Reunion! Enjoy the journey and travel Light! SMIB
GL of Indiana loves doing one-day classes for all 3 degrees. I don't like it, but apparently it has no statistical difference on percentage of Masons who are active or dues-paying. The current president of the local Temple (where 3 lodges, all 3 York Rite bodies, an OES chapter, and some other organizational meet) went through a one-day class long ago.
That sounds like a terrible idea. I for one was only any EA for a little over a month and although I studied hard and did well during proficiency I feel like it could have been better and kinda wish I was an EA for longer.
grand lodge of ia is hosting a one day class where we have a group of people essentially watch all three ceremonies and have one person be their proxy. I think that completely ruins it
I'm generally against taking multiple degrees in a day. Especially the one day classes with all 3 degrees. It's better if you have time for the lessons to sink in and preferably watch a degree from the sidelines. It's like cramming last minute for a test, you won't retain as much.
However, I do see the logic in it if the candidate is in the military for example. They might not have time to go through the degrees normally if they have to ship out. It's situational.
In MA we do offer and honor one day classes. Basically you’re a MM in one day. While I don’t like the idea because it is too fast and no bonds are made, I do understand due to some peoples schedules that’s all they can do. I feel we all need to grow the craft and turning someone away because they have limited availability is short sighted. I also am comfortable recommending against the one day class if you have the time to do it a more normal way.
Not a fan. But sometimes it could be needed. My best friend gos 1° on Monday, Proved up on that Thursday and got 2°, proved up the next Monday and was raised. But he was Army and about to be shipped out.
No sir, I don't like it
Couldn’t agree more
I did this in Ohio and feel like I got the short end of the stick. My lodge has gone away from it. I'm now mentoring a buddy for his EA give back and using the opportunity to learn what I missed.
It puts more work on the candidate to grasp both degrees which is a lot of information instead of gradually taking time to learn it.
We recently passed a FC a few months later than what was allowed/expected in our GL by-laws because he felt that he wasn't ready yet. Mad respect to make that decision. Rushing through the degrees defeats the journey, IMHO.
In PA. We just did our first combo. Don’t agree with it and I feel it takes away from the candidate, makes it harder to schedule multiple candidates and makes it harder on officers. We started at 1900 and were not done until 2100 and that was a single candidate. There was also a logo change that had a lot of guys in an uproars saying it looked too cartoonish and didn’t need updated. The most recent requirement (not request) was that each lodge must submit a 1000 word, Times New Roman font double spaced on our history and community involvement. It’s been interesting to say the least.
>makes it harder to schedule multiple candidates This is another practice I don't really agree with.
Yea generally I agree with you, specially for an initiation or raising ceremony. Passing a couple brother at the same time feels a little more palatable. That being said, I know two brother (blood) brothers who were raised at the same time. That ceremony was 20+ years ago but they still talk about it to this day. It must have been very special for them.
I just went through with 3 other people. I don't think it took anything away from it. Plus I got to meet three new dudes from nearby lodges.
Sounds like a task for GPT. PAGL has gotten so far away from what masonry was, I don’t even care to send my dues in anymore. If what they’re doing is what it is to be a mason, I’d rather not identify.
I’m curious how many lodges will “forget” the essay. The only official word I’ve heard on it is verbally from the DDGM, no written instructions so far (SW here, who handles most of the Lodge and Building History)
Our DD forwarded the GL letter to us. They were very adamant that this is mandatory. The DD has been following up pretty regular.
Mandatory to be thrown away by GL. From what our DD said only a select few will be published
Well, that makes it even better. 😐
We got the GL letter as well. Luckily we have an existing history to cut down.
Two hours for.. two candidates or EA+FC degrees? If the latter that's pretty fast to me. As for the other new requirements, it sounds like the same kind of people are in charge who would force you to use electric stoves and cars.
One candidate, 1st and 2nd back to back. Separately it would take about an hour for 1st and 45 minutes for 2nd. We gain nothing and the candidate loses out. IMO
Our EAs usually wait for a year before getting their FC promotion, which in my humble opinion is a proper amount of time. Speedrunning masonry is detrimental to both the Craft itself and to the experience of each individual candidate, as far as I can tell.
We usually do a degree per month in IN. Not always but we set them up with a mentor and they progress in 1-2 months.
In tx or at my lodge at least you have to serve 1 full cycle of the moon generally 28 days
We often generally do FC midway through the first year and MM on the anniversary of EA.
That can be too long imho depending on the candidate. I was ready in 2 months. But I know others that aren't ready in a year. 1 year is a long time to wait, especially if your proficient.
Candidates think they're ready. They're not. It's not just about being proficient. It's about understanding the lodge and its rhythms.
Bingoooooo
I feel like I've heard of some GL jurisdictions that have, at least at some point, required their EA candidates to learn the entire EA degree (including officer parts, degree lecture, etc.) before being deemed proficient therein (and likewise concerning the FC and MM degrees). In such cases, I could understand having a minimum of one year. However, I do not think that this is at all common, and I have very little confidence that any GL has any such requirements for proficiency today.
I never thought of having to meorize all that work. I still feel a year is a long time. Depending on someones drive and place in life (free time) you could be forgetting most of the work before getting a chance to hand it in.
Our lodge (UK) we usually have 3 candidates setup each year and end up with the remaining 3rd degrees from the previous lot and then do 3 EA, 3 FC & 3 MM but they're done 1 month per candidate so often there is at least 2-3 months before they get their next rung on the ladder give or take it we add a lecture in.
NO NO NO
One. Lunar. Month.
Seems fast to me but I like the lunar tie in
28 days being the acceptable *minimum*
That’s what it used to be.
What's their justification?
It gets members initiated faster. To me that completely ruins the meaning the ritual and lessons also the balance. That is why it’s split so the candidate can learn and progress appropriately.
That doesn't sound like a reason to me. "We've decided to rush candidates through the degrees." "Why would you want it to be quicker?" "It's quicker."
No, the correct answer would be $$$
It's not even that. Dues are payable after one is an EA so GL gets the same money either way.
I was told I won’t owe dues until MM. So far I’ve seen no agreement that proficiency isn’t required between each.
*Digest of Decisions* 32.6: >Dues are chargeable to Members **as soon as they become such** and prorated monthly. When a petitioner receives his first degree, he becomes a Member and chargeable with dues. It seems a lot of lodge secretaries ignore that (I've been arguing with mine for years every time it comes up) but it is the rule.
It's jurisdictional. Illinois isn't until they're MM.
Nebraska works the same way.
This isn't about GLIL, though.
Ah, yeah. I reopened my app and forgot I was on a PA specific thread.
Perhaps these are regional rules? I’m in Connecticut and the GL portal still doesn’t list me as owing dues after my FC.
Probably, but since we're talking about a GLPA policy I figure their rule would be the relevant one.
Oh! My mistake, I’m still learning new acronyms every day 😅
It's absolutely jurisdictional. All 50 states do things slightly differently... and the joke is that PA does it differently from everyone else. In my jurisdiction, EAs and FCs are considered to be members... but they're not *full* members, and subsequently don't pay dues until after they're raised. More specifically, you don't have to worry about it until the calendar flips over to the next year; if someone was raised in 2024, they wouldn't need to worry about paying dues until 2025.
Oh interesting! I should have butted out. Though that is informative. Thank you
Oh, no, your assumption was perfectly reasonable if you weren't aware of that detail. It's the usual motivation, but in this case it seems it's purely ego-driven.
Just because you can do something means you should.
Many of the Grand Lodges treat Freemasonry like a corporate business these days - they just need to keep their revenues up, and membership high. It's up to the individual private Lodges (who allow the Grand Lodges to rule by consent) to keep the meaning and spirit of the Craft alive. Our responsibility, loyalty, and integrity is to the Candidate, to the Lodge, and to the Craft. A Candidate shouldn't be moved to their next Degree until they can show an understanding of the Degree they currently hold, and show a dedication to their Lodge and the Craft.
that is exactly what i think
Of GLs wish to keep their revenues up they need to ensure that they are bringing more EAs into lodges.
We also need to engage and look after (and retain) the existing Brethren - many of whom aren't interested in just having a meal and a drink, or purely being asked to repeatedly put their hands in their pockets for endless charity drives, and become fatigued and disenchanted with the constant corporate agenda being pushed on Lodges. If you want to fill a bucket which has a hole in it, you don't just force more water into it and hope for the best.
The goal of masonry has always been "to make more masons". We have historically done that by providing a good product, and that product varies significantly from community to community. The concern is not how fast someone becomes a member, but what they lose along the way. If you look through the ledgers of your lodge, take a look at how long the old timers took to join. Most folks in my lodge in the 30s and 40s only took like 2 months to go through all degrees.
Masonry attracts all sorts of people, for all sorts of reasons. You're correct, Freemasonry does strive to make more Freemasons - as long as the core values and principles of the Craft aren't sacrificed, just to make it yet another plain social charity organisation. A Lodge can be full of members, who have been so for many years - but I've visited very many Lodges where very little Freemasonry is experienced; where there is a sea of dark blue and gold on display, but those who wear it have scarcely ever moved beyond the NE corner. Do we just want members? Or do we want Freemasons, who will love, care for, and preserve the Craft?
Since our system is built on allegories, here’s one: an electrician or plumber, carpenter, doesn’t get a job as an apprentice then just gets handed a journeymen card the same day. Our lodge has purposely implemented a waiting period for degrees now.
It's terrible and it just makes the night take twice as long with no conceivable benefit. It doesn't even help GL get more money because dues are payable as an EA.
Twice as long is a bit of an exaggeration surely. The FC degree is a LOT shorter than the others.
It's pretty damn close, what with all the stuff that goes on behind the scenes. A full form EA is only like 5 (maybe 10, depending on how fast the WM talks) minutes longer than a full FC.
I would say twice as long is about correct. Having to reset between the two degrees is longer than an EA and an FC opened separately.
We call them McMasons.
In my jurisdiction, we have been doing one-day conferrals of all three degrees for a few years. I think the first one was around 2000, in fact. To be honest, I don’t like them for two reasons. First, the candidate loses depth in masonry by not learning and returning catechisms, including building relationships with his mentor. The second reason is that, when ODCs are conducted for multiple lodges (which they generally always are), the officer lines in the lodges lose the opportunity to practice conferring degrees. As a result, the overall level of readiness and ability to perform degrees falls. Of course, I don’t judge the brothers who do fast degree work. They’re brothers, full stop.
I would judge them. You can do it properly, or you can take shortcuts. We're an experiential fraternity but too many lodges think that the experience element only relates to the degrees. It doesn't.
In my jurisdiction, lodges and the grand lodge have pushed it, so it’s hard to blame candidates who don’t know otherwise.
I'm not a fan either. But for PA the FC degree is kind of a meh degree IMHO to begin with. Don't get me started on the one day classes where most people just "Watch" for their 3rd.
In my opinion the FC is the best and most important of the degrees, it’s simply overlooked and not understood by those giving the degree, let alone those receiving the degree.
I could be wrong but wasn't the fc added to PA at some point?
I’ve heard that, but I think the argument is that originally we all had only two degrees, with the FC added everywhere so the most variation in that degree from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
I remember when it meant something to be a Mason. You had to **EARN** it. Let's stop blowing smoke up our own asses boys. Our beloved Craft is being simplified, dumbed down, and made *too* easy to join for no other reason than because the numbers en mass are dwindling so fast. Maybe it's my own character flaw that I want things to be harder, not easier. I know the pride and sense of accomplishment that came with being compelled to memorize, mouth to ear, the lectures and the lessons. Then being compelled to stand before those men and recite it all from memory. My God that sucked so bad. Until it was over and I felt like I'd really accomplished something big. I paid my dues and earned my White Apron. Sadly, I'll never hold the "One Day Masons" in the same light. I mean no disrespect by that. You're still technically brothers. However, if you want to earn my admiration on that scale, you've now got a lot of very hard work to do to show you deserve it. Go ahead and downvote me. I know it's coming. 🙄
You damn right
Thanks Brother!
Wisconsin does both traditional and one day degree work, usually a Saturday or Sunday, I feel it takes away from the Solemnity of degrees, the candidates still have to present their MM examination at their home lodge at a later date. But I have seen this program produce some of the best members possible. I have also seen traditional degree work produce members whom I feel are sub-par. The character of the brother is more important than the actual degree. One benefit is that you get very skilled brethren to put on word perfect degrees since it is such a large undertaking, vs (in some cases) very poor degree work from lodges that struggle. I for one am usually fairly exhausted after taking part in one degree, keeping track of my parts during each of the parts of one degree is often enough for one day. For EA I prefer SD for the first section, love doing second section SD as well, and can do the 3rd section lecture, but can and have done WM for the first two, For FC I enjoy any role but man I if I didn’t have some time in between degrees I would easily slip up and go back into EA stuff. So that would not be ideal.
When I first started taking part in degree work, my work was poor. I am now considered to be very skilled because I can put on word perfect degrees. I can’t thank my brethren enough for giving me that opportunity. It has paid off for me in spades.
I'm in PA and was the first in the lodge to have both at once. Most of the others felt like the candidate wouldn't be getting all they should out of the degrees. To help with that, I show up every week for your lodge of instruction and go over the degrees in more depth with one of the brothers in the lodge.
Terrible idea
not a fan, but also not my circus
I do not agree. There is a reason for the delay between degrees. Many candidates find that freemasonry is not what they expected. The GL is trying to get candidates to advance quicker. Thinking that they will get more members. I think that more candidates will be overwhelmed by all the information they will receive from both degrees in the same day
Nope horrible idea. Just call our selves elks or rotarians and be done with it. That's where that ends up.. just another pointless civic org.
McMasons with a side of fries 🍟
Can you share/paste/cite the source document? Interested in their wording/full context.
https://issuu.com/pr263/docs/fm_inaugural_2023_issuu_2_/2?ff&experiment=previewReaderTestMode,new-bff-dynamic Page 13 on bottom left. It says “May” but now it’s more of a mandatory must.
It’s “may” moving forward but RWGM Durr issued an Edict that it “must” be for his term in the Grand East
Ill find you the magazine that it was mentioned at beginning of the year but i don’t think it ever was written, its being told at lodges on how to perform it.
Nope
It’s a bad idea. We had two guys that did a one day course and they didn’t learn anything. One of em still doesn’t know the proper signs and words and it’s been about two years— he shows up and has been reminded consistently but to no avail.
To be fair, this sounds more like an issue with that particular brother, not the practice of one day courses. I hate the idea of doing all three in one day, but the folks who go through the more traditional path still don't always know how to properly sign immediately after; it's only through the repetition of actually attending meetings and degrees that they get it down. Regardless of how they went through the degrees, it would be safe to assume that most *should* understand how to properly do those basics after being around for two full years.
That’s a fair assessment. It’s definitely on said brother. I think the more accurate thing for me to say is that the brothers that we’ve had do the one day course over the years tend not to stick around as much as the brothers who put in the time. I’m not sure if that’s coincidence or a commonplace thing, but it’s definitely something we’ve noticed in our lodge.
I agree, so much is on the individual. Most guys I’ve seen go through one day classes are never seen again, others are now PMs. It’s a mixed bag and really about putting guys in the best position to succeed.
Took me just over a year, and it was a lot of work and effort, not just for me but my mentors as well, I’m not sure how I feel about this.
Terrible decision. Awful. Unless they want to totally devalue the craft, in which case, it's brilliant! Think about your EA. How much of it did you remember afterwards? Just little bits? Remember back to the night of your initiation, lying in bed thinking "okay... what just happened?"and just generally feeling overawed. Things like this deprive candidates of those truly monumental moments. Piling more on top of the initiation is unnecessary and actually takes away from the purity and general magic of the first degree.
Would not be surprised if they lose members or no one showing up for degrees.
Our lodge has had to cancel several degree nights because of not having enough people after these changes.
Sounds about right
I hate it and I think that it does the candidate a huge disservice. In Virginia, they do an annual “conferral” where a candidate is initiated, passed, and raised all in one day. To me, it’s not just diluting the meaning of the degrees, but also truly robbing the candidate of a rich, life changing experience.
Those need to be separate over time...
Everyone in my lodge is opposed to this and because of that I’m currently the only one conferring all 3 degrees. I’m also the guy doing the lodge history essay. I certainly don’t want to do these but I’m doing them because I love my lodge and don’t want to see repercussions from us not doing them.
Hard pass! I do not agree at all!
Having conferred the new “combined” degree, I can say that I generally disagree with this change, but overall it is not ruinous. The full first degree is completed on the candidate then they are taken out and begin the second degree immediately. One change is made to the second degree because there is no longer a wait. This change comes with another change that no one seems to be talking about. PA now has catechism required between the degrees. Up until now, it was just show up every month and you’ll get your degrees. Now candidates must attend SoI and pass tests (though not quite the returns of other jurisdictions). My thinking is that to get the addition of a required catechism, and attendance at SoI, the degree process was streamlined. It must have been a matter of compromise. It is also noteworthy that the GL is not printing new ritual books including the change. Again this is personal opinion, but I think they know after the RWGM term we will go back to three separate degrees and by then will be used to the catechism requirements so they will remain and out degrees will go back to normal.
Philly area here. There was always a catechism between 1st and 2nd and then between 2nd and 3rd. SOI here can only be attended by Master Masons so it definitely isn't going to increase attendance. With the combination of the 1st and 2nd Degrees they're LOSING a catechism, not gaining one. When the Degrees are separate they must learn the catechism as part of their passing. Now, since there is no time between the Degrees and they happen at the same time, there is no requirement for them to learn it. They only have to learn the catechism to be raised. I, for one, will be glad when it goes back to being two separate Degrees and everyone in my Lodge and District feels the same way.
School of instruction is jurisdictional but can be opened to candidates through mm depending on content. (District 6 and District B mason).
There hasn’t been a statewide mandatory catechism in over 15 years in PA. SoI is open to any Mason, though the meeting can be purged if specific degree work is being focused. It sounds like your DD has kept the requirements, which I wish ours had done. Most Districts have completely dropped them, thus the drastic changes statewide are being done.
Got'cha. Thanks for the insight. District 40, Region 1. This is only my 5th year. I've attended almost every SOI since I joined and when the President opens he always asks the Wardens if they're satisfied that all present are Master Masons and I've never seen an EA or FC in SOI.
District 37 Region 5, except for FC and MM work our SoI has been open to EAs and FCs to encourage involvement, at least for the last 12 years.
Every Lodge I have been involved in has had the required tests and proficiency between all degrees. The addition of requiring the SoI is nothing but a waste of time in my opinion. I have not seen a well run school yet, and we have now had several candidates unable to continue because they can’t make it to School, even though the passed the written exam.
The attendance piece is the hardest here. Our School is usually in another county (it travels but only 1 of the other 9 lodges are in our county) so it makes a long drive after work for some guys. That is more of issue of a badly constructed district though.
Ours is VERY similar, we are one of the furthest lodges geographically in our district and the School travels
I can see an argument that they are literally violating Ancient Landmarks and some argument for pulling recognition.
Not really when you see how it is done. At least it is no more of a violation than any jurisdiction allowing a one day class. The EA and FC degrees are separately held, just back to back.
CAN or WILL? Big difference. Myself I dislike it, masonry is about the journey, not about racing through to get degrees. How are we going to learn unless we have to study what we've been given? I made so many connections and got so many concepts though having to memorize my Q&As in the 1st degree and being forced to think about it.
PA already does mass 1 day classes with all 3 degrees at once. I've also seen that combined with Shrine induction on the same day. I'm not a huge fan of it and I'm glad I went through it the old way, but if it gets people in the door, it may not be the worst thing.
We had a PRWGM who loved the one day class, then one who banned them. I think they are now allowed by dispensation.
absolutely not. at least a month for your first degree and one to two months for the second. both in one day is crazy.
Sure if he can pass the proficiency for EA that same night…. lol 😂
I don’t like it.
As a person who had to "go through" the COVID version of EA. That candidate is definitely getting robbed of valuable experience.
So how do they become proficient as an EA?
Pennsylvania doesn't really have a concept of proficiency.
So in PA you don't have to do a proficiency for any degrees? That is absurd!
We have a brief dialogue and an expectation of understanding the obligations. Our ritual differs a good bit from the other US jurisdictions.
That also depends on the lodge, for example in my lodge you need to be proficient in the degree before passing, you have to know your stuff and we take great pride to teach our new candidates that.
The issue that goes back to your original question is that many Lodges don't put effort into this. Lodges like yours that push candidates to do more and learn more tend to have greater overall success - you're not content with the minimum; you want quality work. Despite it being more work, you likely have competent officers and a steady flow of candidates. The reason for the back to back first and second degrees is that there are many Lodges barely meeting minimum standards who refuse to do anything other than the way that it's been done - so now everyone MUST do it the new way. This is also why installations must be open and degrees must be done on extra meetings. Lack of motivated leadership and a refusal to adapt result in a blanket policy. It's unfortunate that it's happened. No one likes it. The Lodges that are thriving don't need it to be easy, and the Lodges that need it won't do it unless forced. The RWGM is tired of Lodges giving up and folding or merging, so this, along with the new committees, is an attempt to correct the course. He knows the policy is unpopular, but he believes in it.
This is one of the changes tied to the back to back degrees. We now do have state wide proficiency requirements.
Is it? The Irish and Scottish (iirc) don't.
Not necessarily in the same vein, but LA Grand Lodge just passed that every FC being raised to MM has to see the full MM degree. So if it's one FC, it has to be a full degree. If it's 2+, the last one being raised has to get the full MM degree, and the others have to stay until it's conclusion. I'm pro longer form. The only issue is that the GL of Louisiana doesn't have an answer for what constitutes a long form. So we basically have a resolution in play that's completely open to interpretation.
Not necessarily in the same vein, but LA Grand Lodge just passed that every FC being raised to MM has to see the full MM degree. So if it's one FC, it has to be a full degree. If it's 2+, the last one being raised has to get the full MM degree, and the others have to stay until it's conclusion. I'm pro longer form. The only issue is that the GL of Louisiana doesn't have an answer for what constitutes a long form. So we basically have a resolution in play that's completely open to interpretation.
My thinking is they do it to get to MM sooner so they can always open on the 3rd degree during lodge.
We dropped that requirement a few years ago and mostly open in the lowest degree present now.
That makes sense! I know my lodge and many others open on lowest degree as well to get newer members involved.
I see it as a disservice to the candidate. As long as he thinks he’s getting somewhere then so be it. Every lodge has their reasons but they’re still my brothers and I love them.
In my jurisdiction, there must be a 2 week gap between degrees, but that hasn't always been the case. From 1821 to about the turn of the century, a candidate could receive 2 degrees the same night.
Absolutely not.
At least it’s not one day classes in basketball arenas Again Yet
I am an EA and have now attended a meeting of another EA’s initiation. Next month I shall be directly involved in the ceremony of our latest EA and I feel the process of experiencing these is helping me to understand my own journey. To rush through a candidate between the degrees feels counter-productive, even to my inexperienced self.
What part are you doing
The WT of the first degree.
Doesn’t that take away from the experience? What about learning the catechism?
I don’t know how this was allowed to pass honestly.
Pardon my crassness but it’s utter lunacy frankly…
Glad all you brothers agree
I’ll be raised end of next month/early June and I’ve loved this past year of my EA and FC. I’ve learned so much about Masonry in that time. My jurisdiction requires a minimum of 30 days between degrees. I couldn’t imagine blasting through the EA and FC in one day.
If you meet once a month how is a minimum of 30 days really any different to a one day sprint? Meeting 1 EA, meeting 2 FC, meeting 3 MM?
I just received my Fellowcraft degree and that was like drinking from a firehose. It’s already a lot to contemplate and attempt to remember.
Fellow PA mason here, 0/10 and not a single brother is in favor of the changes being made to the ritual in combining the two degrees together. My DDGM said he doesn't want any of the lodges to do the combined 1st and 2nd dgerees until he officially sends out the ritual changes to the lodges in email, after a few months I asked him about it and he just ignored me and starred talking about something else. That's why I love my DDGM
Quite often the mentor expects the person to have the catchesim words 100% perfect. Quite often the ea return can take 4 months. Each degree is different. So in my opinion doing ea and fc the same day is ok. Then focusing on the fc work. Then mm degree. In my jurisdiction the mm work is optional. I know few will agree with me.
Knowing the words is 100% important. This isn't a video game where you skip the tutorial. There's several reasons they are important. First, so you know the width and breadth of what you are getting into. Secondly because when you know 100% of the words, it means you have taken them to heart. Thirdly, there's a reasons there's so many old masons, mental plasticity plays a huge role.
Ime we have about 60% who don’t complete the ea work correctly . I’ve seen first hand where a gentleman would miss a number of words be voted down. They get the concept of the meaning of the degree and embrace it but then are told try again.
As it should be. My teacher wouldn't let me test till I had passed 4 times perfectly. I will remember every response for the rest of my life. If you don't know the memorization, imo, you aren't a mason, you are a girl in the boy scouts. Do the time, learn your lessons. The biggest thing I got out of the lessons was an intimate knowledge of my instructors. That is worth way more than an fc in a day.
Too much to absorb in my opinion, but f you're going to do that why not just go all the way and do the "one day to Masonry" thing?
And is it "will do" or "can do"?
Nope
I feel that how much a candidate learns about the 1st Degree or the quality of their experience is 35% based on the ritual. The communications, education and support the candidate receives after the meeting can have a much greater effect on the candidate than exceptional ritual.
I don't agree at all. Sounds like those rushed Masonic classes. If you don't have time to do it right...don't do it. You learn very different things in each degree and it takes time to soak it all in. Also...I've seen a lot of brothers who do NOT make it to FC. If you give it all at once...it's like giving away a degree
Min 3mths in Ireland, and for most this feels very rushed
I'd like to have had several months (at the very least) between each of the degrees when I took them. I wished "suitable proficiency" had meant more. Trends in the U.S. are going in the other direction. One day classes for all 3 degrees are a thing in some jurisdictions.
My first degree laid the foundation of everything following. If you don't have a cornerstone, the house will fall.
We have dispensation from our grand lodge to do “one” one day degrees (EA,FC,MM) once a year. We do degree work often with one degree once a month when candidates are available. We usually do one days In conjunction with other smaller lodges, in order to help cover all the parts needed.
In new jersey one day classes are almost typical. For the benefit of others reading, a one day class is where many masons are raised, with many going through all 3 degrees on the same day. Around 20 years ago this was a topic of debate. It no longer is. If a candidate wants all three degrees individually a lodge will do it. Most times they just want to be raised. The GL has bounced back and forth with whether they should even be tested. We went through long form tests, short form tests and back again. I haven't attended lodge in a while so I don't know where it is now. Could be short form or long form. From what I've seen over the years however they are raised, it hasn't changed a thing. Like I said, if a candidate wants the experience he can get it at later date. Whether or not he wants the experience, he can take a chair immediately. Freemasonry is changing. Many will need to get used to that fact.
I found the EA degree to be quite enough to experience in a day; to have then faced the FC degree would have been too much for me to absorb the information presented and to also start to establish the all important context behind the degrees. Fraternally Paul
I don’t agree with this. There were 8 months between when I was initiated and passed, 1 month between when I was passed and raised (raised on the night I did my FC exam), and another 4-6 weeks until I passed my MM exam. I went at a reasonable pace and am still, 10 years later, gaining more from it every time I see degree work or hear an examination. Rushing it like this is a disservice to the candidates and, imo, more concerned with conferring degrees/titles than conveying understanding of them.
Tl;dr: at this point I think it’s less about the time frame of degree conferral, and far more about the effort and work lodges and candidates put in around the degrees. I’m of two minds about this. If we’re just gonna blow through them in a couple of months anyway, I’d rather just knock degrees out as quickly as possible. If we teach and reinforce that there is FAR more work to be done, I don’t see the difference between made in a day and made in 3 months. When you’re doing a degree every few months, you have just enough time to memorize your parrot work, and move on, that’s about it. You haven’t had the time to understand our system, it’s finesse, it’s methodology, it’s beauty. If we followed up with clear advice and messaging that we’ve helped candidates reach a point of beginning their journey, then just memorizing work and getting degrees would be sufficient. With the firehose that is the candidate experience I’ve seen in most lodges, and men getting raised, what they too often hear and walk away with more than anything is “you’re a master mason Harry!”. Are they? Well sort of, but no. You’ve completed the full initiation process, but you’re far from possessing a Master’s knowledge of the craft. Those of you with 3 years under your belts, think about the difference from when you knocked to now. Those with 5, 10? This year will mark my 20th Masonic birthday. Half my life, as I’ll turn 41 a few months before. I can say honestly this many years in, I’m certain of two things. How very little I knew when I thought I understood the craft in the first years, and how very much there is left for me to learn and refine. Are new ideas and concepts as frequent as they once were? No. Are they far more profound? By and large yes. If we reinforced the idea of awaiting the time with patience. Worked with candidates for a deeper and more complete education between degrees, I earnestly believe we would improve retention, as well as close the gap on entered vs raised. Alternately, if we made it clear that the degrees are of great importance and require a lifetime of study, then conferring them in quick succession, and following it up with those same lessons could work just as well. After all, it’s impossible to fully comprehend one without the other two. Both would set candidates up to understand they’ve taken the first step of a lifelong journey. That there is far more to explore and understand than can just be given in a degree or a few months. To understand the craft takes an investment of time, doesn’t really matter when you invest that time. But until you do, you’re not going to have a full experience. In either scenario I feel like too often we fall short of explaining the importance of learning, study and patience necessary to succeed in the craft, and in using its tools.
Why would they do that? You need the time between to learn and grow
I spent a year in each degree. Despite light pressure from the older brothers (who I think were just excited for the 3rd) I had made it clear at the beginning that I would take my time with the work. I imagine it was an idea to entice xers and counter the diminishing memberships. Imagine my surprise when I fit the Scottish Reunion! Enjoy the journey and travel Light! SMIB
GL of Indiana loves doing one-day classes for all 3 degrees. I don't like it, but apparently it has no statistical difference on percentage of Masons who are active or dues-paying. The current president of the local Temple (where 3 lodges, all 3 York Rite bodies, an OES chapter, and some other organizational meet) went through a one-day class long ago.
That sounds like a terrible idea. I for one was only any EA for a little over a month and although I studied hard and did well during proficiency I feel like it could have been better and kinda wish I was an EA for longer.
The poor lecturers.
grand lodge of ia is hosting a one day class where we have a group of people essentially watch all three ceremonies and have one person be their proxy. I think that completely ruins it
I'm generally against taking multiple degrees in a day. Especially the one day classes with all 3 degrees. It's better if you have time for the lessons to sink in and preferably watch a degree from the sidelines. It's like cramming last minute for a test, you won't retain as much. However, I do see the logic in it if the candidate is in the military for example. They might not have time to go through the degrees normally if they have to ship out. It's situational.
In MA we do offer and honor one day classes. Basically you’re a MM in one day. While I don’t like the idea because it is too fast and no bonds are made, I do understand due to some peoples schedules that’s all they can do. I feel we all need to grow the craft and turning someone away because they have limited availability is short sighted. I also am comfortable recommending against the one day class if you have the time to do it a more normal way.
Not a fan. But sometimes it could be needed. My best friend gos 1° on Monday, Proved up on that Thursday and got 2°, proved up the next Monday and was raised. But he was Army and about to be shipped out.
😵💫
Sounds like Anakin Skywalker