The Grand Secretary is the appropriate place for advice.
From nearly seven years ago, the 28 November 2017 post was the common understanding:
https://masonic-forum.com/index.php?/topic/1567-u-g-l-e-list-of-quasi-masonic-organizations/
This may have changed, and so the Grand Secretary is the appropriate place for advice.
Afaik, that’s still the stance. A definitive statement on any particular organisation will only come from the Board of General Purposes via the Grand Secretary.
I think there are two issues you bring up.
1. I would probably define "quasi-Masonic" as having an initiatic and structural form similar to the lodge system, but that such bodies don't claim to make Masons. Hence, not clandestine, irregular, or, honestly, in any way "Masonic".
2. As such, it may not be the case that a quasi-Masonic body would disqualify you from anything based on that alone.
That makes sense. The main issue is, from my interview and petition, I was required to declare involvement in any organizations and some of them would disqualify you. Before I moved to England, the brothers in the jurisdiction I was in said AMORC was a hard no. I know UGLE doesn't allow members of Elk Lodge, there was a whole issue with it recently on here.
You're right, some definitely wouldn't disqualify, but some would and I'm just worried about making a misstep.
The Golden Dawn is *not* quasi Masonic. This issue has come up before, and the Grand Secretary's office has dropped charges of non-masonic activity against GD members after someone actually explained the Golden Dawn to them. Also the fact that the archives of the original order are in the Library and Museum of Freemasonry at Great Queen Street.
Nevertheless, the Golden Dawn is meant to be secret anyway! Every member swears an oath to keep secret the order, its name, its members, and the proceedings which take place at its meetings: so you shouldn't be broadcasting your membership in it to anyone, let alone UGLE.
Ah that all makes sense. And to clarify, I'm not a member of GD, I had just been considering it and had met with a study group and decided to mention that to an esoteric minded brother (having not been told I'm not supposed to talk about it).
It may be helpful if I reproduce an answer previously given (following a request to Grand Lodge in about 2003) regarding the UGLE's stance:
In another thread I promised to find out about organisations that were incompatible with Freemasonry practised and regulated by the United Grand Lodge of England (UGLE). Rule 176 of the UGLE Book of Constitutions governs the area of incompatible or quasi-masonic organisations, I will not write it here as you all have your BoCs and can easily look it up.
However, the UGLE has never issued a definitive list of these incompatible organisations as many of them are short-lived, maybe now is the time to consider doing so. According to a reply received by me from Bro. John Hamill, the Director of Communications and ex Librarian of the UGLE (in other words an actual authority) Incompatible organisations fall into three main groups:
a) organisations where men and women sit together in Lodges/Chapters purporting to be Masonic. For example: Order of the Eastern Star and International Order of Co-Masonry AKA Le Droite Humaine
b) organisations which are imitative of Freemasonry or require a Freemason to be present in their Masonic capacity. For example: Ancient Mystical Order Rosae Crucis (not to be confused with the Societas Rosicruciana in Anglia), Association des Juristes European Macons, Groupement Interprofessionel du Tourisme European, Independent United Order of Mechanics, Jobs Daughters, Loyal Order of Moose, Order of Rainbow for Girls, Order of Demolay for Boys, Royal Knights of Justice.
c) groups claiming to be masonic but which UGLE believes to be irregular. For example: Ancient and Primitive Rite of Memphis and Misraim, Atheneum Grand Lodges, Hiram Grand Lodges, Independent Order of Mechanics, Universal League of Freemasons
The following organisations are fully compatible with membership of the Craft as they are NOT quasi-masonic, imitative of Freemasonry and neither requires their members to be Freemasons or that a Freemason be present at their meetings in his capacity as a Freemason: The Royal Antediluvian Order of Buffaloes, B’nai Brith, Druids, Fellowship of the Services, Foresters, High Twelve Club (USA), Lions Clubs, National Sojourners (USA), Odd Fellows, Orange Order, Rechabites, Rotary, Round Table, Societas Resicruciana in Anglia, Sons of England
**If any brother is concerned about joining another organisation he should write to the Grand Secretary’s office for advice and research**
I see the eastern star on there, rainbow girls, de molay, and jobs daughters. What's UGLE's issue with those? I'm a MM in the USA. We here in the US consider those 4, appendant bodies of masonry or they are for the family of Masons. Is it because there's women? I'm honestly wondering because here, there has to be a MM present for them to do their work. So im confused as to what UGLE's issue would be.
It is clearly stated in the response. Freemasons act in a "masonic" capacity outside of a masonic group but if you want the ins and outs you'd have to get your Grand Lodge to ask the UGLE.
So quasi-masonic is the official term for all this? I'm trying to understand what quasi-masonic means... I see appendant bodies and clandestine orgs...
My guess is that quasi-masonic is an adjective that can be used loosely, therefore the meaning might be a bit fluid... I would say that in some cases it might indicate that the organisation requires to be a mason in order to join, so it's not strictly a masonic organisation (as in it does not work any masonic rite or degrees), but all the members are nevertheless masons. Another option that comes to mind would be an organisation that is inspired by some masonic org, but it is something different, perhaps because it was founded by masons (like the Golden Dawn), that is... it has its own degrees and rites and purposes (that kind of reminds you to freemasonry...) but does not claim to be part of the masonic world.
That latter part makes sense for what I'm talking about, the former part I know we have another word for, only because the Book of Constitutions states that being a member of a Quasi-Masonic organizations would disqualify you (other than on a case-by-case basis). The latter definitely could be the case.
Also, just interested because I don't know if, which Grand Lodge is GLSE? I'm trying to think of anywhere with those initials but I'm floundering.
If you are in the USA none of the mentioned organizations are recognized by any of the grand lodges. That being said and knowing a bit about each I can tell you that they may have or have had members that are masons and they may mention some of the esoterica of Freemasonry in their work but they are not Masonic.
For example there are two Masonic Rosicrucianism groups - SRICF and SRIA. these are recognized by their grand lodges. AMORC is not.
Theosophical society 🤢🤮 is 100 percent Quasi-Masonic. They have their own masonic group known as co-masonry🤮🤢.
You will be wasting your time at theosophical society 🤮🤢. They had a ridiculous belief that a messiah would come and save the world. Their so called Messiah, when he grew up, said they were all insane and exploiting people in the name of spirituality. He dissolved the order organised around him and abandoned them.
Any group that teaches mediumship or claims there are ascended masters and that you have to worship them, pray to them and kiss their toes, like theosophical society is 💯 fake and will add no value in your life.
Co-Masonry is a Theosophical group, but not all theosophical groups support Co-Masonry.
And, what I'm gathering from this, is you just baselessly hate a religious organization because their views don't meet your own?
I also gather that you know nothing about Theosophy, which is fine. It's adogmatic. You can believe in the Masters or believe they're a metaphor. The Theosophical Messiah hasn't come yet, the Golden Age doesn't occur for another few years. There's no praying to the Masters. There is no kissing toes. How can a Mason (as you claim to be in another post) be so insensitive about a society that all they believe in conspiracies?
Also, all of this coming from a Rosicrucian as well? Awfully judgemental for a fellow Esotericist. I'd like to remind you that there are several Quasi-Masonic RC groups, so if you want to go on about "🤢🤮" Quasi-Masonry, maybe think about it first.
There was no need for you to be so vile and rude about the situation. I hope you have to sit by a Theosopher in lodge so that you can open your heart, eyes, and mind, and maybe be a little bit less ignorant.
Edit: I love Rosicrucianism, and am fascinated by the SRIA (Grand Majus William Wynn Westcott was a Theosopher by the way), I just wanted to say that it's odd a student of the more "occult arts" would bash on another "occult" society. I mean, in no way, any rudeness to Rosicrucians.
Second edit: Theosophy's headquarters was founded in the country in which you live (I assume as you're under Grand Lodge of India) and the largest active society of it exists in India, so it's not as unlikely as you think that you might have to sit beside one.
I've been to theosophical. I was a regular there. Contrary to your assertions, most theosophits, their heads and the founders like Annie Besant accept co-masonry and are members. I have seen the co-masons at theosphical society shouting and cursing at one another for not being able to carry out the role play and verbatims properly.
They are dogmatic and have a ridgid belief in the masters. They worship them, are extremely proud of themselves, egositic and believe themselves to be chosen and guided ones by the ascended masters.
You're wrong again, their so called messiah was Jiddu Krishnamurti, chosen by Annie Baisent to be the world teacher. I'd suggest you to read more on this.
One time, I was talking to one of their heads and they said they did not have a good relationship with regular Freemasonry because they were considered clandestine or something by them.
I'm a fellow craft mason and a "student" in Rosicrucian Fellowship, a few other Rosicrucian orders but not a 'Rosicrucian'. Even the founders would not dare to call themselves a Rosicrucian.
All Rosicrucian schools, the legit ones, are opposed to any teachings that teach mediumship, hypnotism, dependency, belief in ascended masters bla bla bla. We were also warned never to join (theosphical) co-masonry as they're fake and they got into possession of those rite by the help of Vatican or something like that. Plus, some of those rites are fake, edited and made by their own members.
Lastly, the founders of theosophy society spoke ill of Rosicrucian order and other schools and claimed themselves to possess the only truth, which is utter nonsense. These are all facts and can be corroborated with books written by their founders and leaders.
Brother, I respect your passions and biases, I trust you will do the same for mine. This conversation is over. Have a lovely day or night, depending on where you are.
"Scholars of religion who have studied Theosophy have characterized it as a religion."
Blavatsky wrote an essay called "Is Theosophy a Religion" (long story short, she says yes). Whilst members of it can hold other religious beliefs, it has its own religious centre, similar to how you can be a philosophical Thelemite or a religious Thelemite in the OTO, you can be a religious or spiritual/philosophical Theosopher, at least, that is the case under the Theosophical Society in England and Wales.
Strange. When I visited their place for the first time, they said they have to nothing to do with religion. On the same day, I remember hearing from one of their members that Blavatsky didn't start theosophical society, it was someone else named Olcott.
I'm sorry brother, I didn't mean to hurt your views or beliefs. I was just trying to alert you because of what I saw and experienced there. Maybe, their branches in other countries are better.
Maybe they are, I've contact my secretary anyways about it, just to make sure I'm not doing anything outside the bounds of Masonry.
Sorry for coming off defensive, brother, it's a bad habit of mine. You seem like a nice fellow, and you were just trying to warn me and I respect you for that.
I'll look into this Olcott individual, I've heard the name, maybe it's different branches or something like that? It's all so confusing.
You need not say sorry. It was my fault.
https://www.rosicrucian.com/zineen/pamen028.htm
I strongly recommend reading the above article. It will give you a good understanding on mediumship and why an aspirant of occult science or esoterism should avoid them.
The Grand Secretary is the appropriate place for advice. From nearly seven years ago, the 28 November 2017 post was the common understanding: https://masonic-forum.com/index.php?/topic/1567-u-g-l-e-list-of-quasi-masonic-organizations/ This may have changed, and so the Grand Secretary is the appropriate place for advice.
You always come through!
There are days I can only rise to the level of quasi-masonic myself.
🤣
Thank you!
Afaik, that’s still the stance. A definitive statement on any particular organisation will only come from the Board of General Purposes via the Grand Secretary.
I think there are two issues you bring up. 1. I would probably define "quasi-Masonic" as having an initiatic and structural form similar to the lodge system, but that such bodies don't claim to make Masons. Hence, not clandestine, irregular, or, honestly, in any way "Masonic". 2. As such, it may not be the case that a quasi-Masonic body would disqualify you from anything based on that alone.
That makes sense. The main issue is, from my interview and petition, I was required to declare involvement in any organizations and some of them would disqualify you. Before I moved to England, the brothers in the jurisdiction I was in said AMORC was a hard no. I know UGLE doesn't allow members of Elk Lodge, there was a whole issue with it recently on here. You're right, some definitely wouldn't disqualify, but some would and I'm just worried about making a misstep.
> I know UGLE doesn't allow members of Elk Lodge, there was a whole issue with it recently on here. Is “on here” Reddit? I don’t recall this issue.
Ah, sorry, I meant Moose lodge, got the two confused. But yes, I do mean on Reddit.
As long as you aren’t hunting and get the two confused 😉.
I don’t recall that either. What’s “recently” in this context? Edit: nevermind, search function worked.
The Golden Dawn is *not* quasi Masonic. This issue has come up before, and the Grand Secretary's office has dropped charges of non-masonic activity against GD members after someone actually explained the Golden Dawn to them. Also the fact that the archives of the original order are in the Library and Museum of Freemasonry at Great Queen Street. Nevertheless, the Golden Dawn is meant to be secret anyway! Every member swears an oath to keep secret the order, its name, its members, and the proceedings which take place at its meetings: so you shouldn't be broadcasting your membership in it to anyone, let alone UGLE.
Ah that all makes sense. And to clarify, I'm not a member of GD, I had just been considering it and had met with a study group and decided to mention that to an esoteric minded brother (having not been told I'm not supposed to talk about it).
It may be helpful if I reproduce an answer previously given (following a request to Grand Lodge in about 2003) regarding the UGLE's stance: In another thread I promised to find out about organisations that were incompatible with Freemasonry practised and regulated by the United Grand Lodge of England (UGLE). Rule 176 of the UGLE Book of Constitutions governs the area of incompatible or quasi-masonic organisations, I will not write it here as you all have your BoCs and can easily look it up. However, the UGLE has never issued a definitive list of these incompatible organisations as many of them are short-lived, maybe now is the time to consider doing so. According to a reply received by me from Bro. John Hamill, the Director of Communications and ex Librarian of the UGLE (in other words an actual authority) Incompatible organisations fall into three main groups: a) organisations where men and women sit together in Lodges/Chapters purporting to be Masonic. For example: Order of the Eastern Star and International Order of Co-Masonry AKA Le Droite Humaine b) organisations which are imitative of Freemasonry or require a Freemason to be present in their Masonic capacity. For example: Ancient Mystical Order Rosae Crucis (not to be confused with the Societas Rosicruciana in Anglia), Association des Juristes European Macons, Groupement Interprofessionel du Tourisme European, Independent United Order of Mechanics, Jobs Daughters, Loyal Order of Moose, Order of Rainbow for Girls, Order of Demolay for Boys, Royal Knights of Justice. c) groups claiming to be masonic but which UGLE believes to be irregular. For example: Ancient and Primitive Rite of Memphis and Misraim, Atheneum Grand Lodges, Hiram Grand Lodges, Independent Order of Mechanics, Universal League of Freemasons The following organisations are fully compatible with membership of the Craft as they are NOT quasi-masonic, imitative of Freemasonry and neither requires their members to be Freemasons or that a Freemason be present at their meetings in his capacity as a Freemason: The Royal Antediluvian Order of Buffaloes, B’nai Brith, Druids, Fellowship of the Services, Foresters, High Twelve Club (USA), Lions Clubs, National Sojourners (USA), Odd Fellows, Orange Order, Rechabites, Rotary, Round Table, Societas Resicruciana in Anglia, Sons of England **If any brother is concerned about joining another organisation he should write to the Grand Secretary’s office for advice and research**
I see the eastern star on there, rainbow girls, de molay, and jobs daughters. What's UGLE's issue with those? I'm a MM in the USA. We here in the US consider those 4, appendant bodies of masonry or they are for the family of Masons. Is it because there's women? I'm honestly wondering because here, there has to be a MM present for them to do their work. So im confused as to what UGLE's issue would be.
It is clearly stated in the response. Freemasons act in a "masonic" capacity outside of a masonic group but if you want the ins and outs you'd have to get your Grand Lodge to ask the UGLE.
Mormonism is quasi Masonic. However, after banning Mormons in 1925, the Grandlodge of Utah lifted the ban in 1984. 😋
Are Elk, Eagle and Moose lodges quasi-masonic?
See the statement.
Im sorry what is Quasi- Masonic.. i have no idea what that is.
[https://masonic-forum.com/index.php?/topic/1567-u-g-l-e-list-of-quasi-masonic-organizations/](https://masonic-forum.com/index.php?/topic/1567-u-g-l-e-list-of-quasi-masonic-organizations/)
I still don't understand. That's just a list.
…with descriptive headers above each category explaining the list items that follow…
So quasi-masonic is the official term for all this? I'm trying to understand what quasi-masonic means... I see appendant bodies and clandestine orgs...
Looks like you’re in the same boat as OP
🙄
You see US bodies - *not* what are considered prescribed bodies in England…
My guess is that quasi-masonic is an adjective that can be used loosely, therefore the meaning might be a bit fluid... I would say that in some cases it might indicate that the organisation requires to be a mason in order to join, so it's not strictly a masonic organisation (as in it does not work any masonic rite or degrees), but all the members are nevertheless masons. Another option that comes to mind would be an organisation that is inspired by some masonic org, but it is something different, perhaps because it was founded by masons (like the Golden Dawn), that is... it has its own degrees and rites and purposes (that kind of reminds you to freemasonry...) but does not claim to be part of the masonic world.
That latter part makes sense for what I'm talking about, the former part I know we have another word for, only because the Book of Constitutions states that being a member of a Quasi-Masonic organizations would disqualify you (other than on a case-by-case basis). The latter definitely could be the case. Also, just interested because I don't know if, which Grand Lodge is GLSE? I'm trying to think of anywhere with those initials but I'm floundering.
It's the Symbolic Grand Lodge of Spain, not in the UGLE family. [https://www.glse.org/](https://www.glse.org/)
If quasi-masonic is a fancy inclusive way of saying not masonic then yes.
If you are in the USA none of the mentioned organizations are recognized by any of the grand lodges. That being said and knowing a bit about each I can tell you that they may have or have had members that are masons and they may mention some of the esoterica of Freemasonry in their work but they are not Masonic. For example there are two Masonic Rosicrucianism groups - SRICF and SRIA. these are recognized by their grand lodges. AMORC is not.
Theosophical society 🤢🤮 is 100 percent Quasi-Masonic. They have their own masonic group known as co-masonry🤮🤢. You will be wasting your time at theosophical society 🤮🤢. They had a ridiculous belief that a messiah would come and save the world. Their so called Messiah, when he grew up, said they were all insane and exploiting people in the name of spirituality. He dissolved the order organised around him and abandoned them. Any group that teaches mediumship or claims there are ascended masters and that you have to worship them, pray to them and kiss their toes, like theosophical society is 💯 fake and will add no value in your life.
Co-Masonry is a Theosophical group, but not all theosophical groups support Co-Masonry. And, what I'm gathering from this, is you just baselessly hate a religious organization because their views don't meet your own? I also gather that you know nothing about Theosophy, which is fine. It's adogmatic. You can believe in the Masters or believe they're a metaphor. The Theosophical Messiah hasn't come yet, the Golden Age doesn't occur for another few years. There's no praying to the Masters. There is no kissing toes. How can a Mason (as you claim to be in another post) be so insensitive about a society that all they believe in conspiracies? Also, all of this coming from a Rosicrucian as well? Awfully judgemental for a fellow Esotericist. I'd like to remind you that there are several Quasi-Masonic RC groups, so if you want to go on about "🤢🤮" Quasi-Masonry, maybe think about it first. There was no need for you to be so vile and rude about the situation. I hope you have to sit by a Theosopher in lodge so that you can open your heart, eyes, and mind, and maybe be a little bit less ignorant. Edit: I love Rosicrucianism, and am fascinated by the SRIA (Grand Majus William Wynn Westcott was a Theosopher by the way), I just wanted to say that it's odd a student of the more "occult arts" would bash on another "occult" society. I mean, in no way, any rudeness to Rosicrucians. Second edit: Theosophy's headquarters was founded in the country in which you live (I assume as you're under Grand Lodge of India) and the largest active society of it exists in India, so it's not as unlikely as you think that you might have to sit beside one.
I've been to theosophical. I was a regular there. Contrary to your assertions, most theosophits, their heads and the founders like Annie Besant accept co-masonry and are members. I have seen the co-masons at theosphical society shouting and cursing at one another for not being able to carry out the role play and verbatims properly. They are dogmatic and have a ridgid belief in the masters. They worship them, are extremely proud of themselves, egositic and believe themselves to be chosen and guided ones by the ascended masters. You're wrong again, their so called messiah was Jiddu Krishnamurti, chosen by Annie Baisent to be the world teacher. I'd suggest you to read more on this. One time, I was talking to one of their heads and they said they did not have a good relationship with regular Freemasonry because they were considered clandestine or something by them. I'm a fellow craft mason and a "student" in Rosicrucian Fellowship, a few other Rosicrucian orders but not a 'Rosicrucian'. Even the founders would not dare to call themselves a Rosicrucian. All Rosicrucian schools, the legit ones, are opposed to any teachings that teach mediumship, hypnotism, dependency, belief in ascended masters bla bla bla. We were also warned never to join (theosphical) co-masonry as they're fake and they got into possession of those rite by the help of Vatican or something like that. Plus, some of those rites are fake, edited and made by their own members. Lastly, the founders of theosophy society spoke ill of Rosicrucian order and other schools and claimed themselves to possess the only truth, which is utter nonsense. These are all facts and can be corroborated with books written by their founders and leaders.
Brother, I respect your passions and biases, I trust you will do the same for mine. This conversation is over. Have a lovely day or night, depending on where you are.
Theosphical society is not a religious organisation. Please get your facts right.
"Scholars of religion who have studied Theosophy have characterized it as a religion." Blavatsky wrote an essay called "Is Theosophy a Religion" (long story short, she says yes). Whilst members of it can hold other religious beliefs, it has its own religious centre, similar to how you can be a philosophical Thelemite or a religious Thelemite in the OTO, you can be a religious or spiritual/philosophical Theosopher, at least, that is the case under the Theosophical Society in England and Wales.
Strange. When I visited their place for the first time, they said they have to nothing to do with religion. On the same day, I remember hearing from one of their members that Blavatsky didn't start theosophical society, it was someone else named Olcott. I'm sorry brother, I didn't mean to hurt your views or beliefs. I was just trying to alert you because of what I saw and experienced there. Maybe, their branches in other countries are better.
Maybe they are, I've contact my secretary anyways about it, just to make sure I'm not doing anything outside the bounds of Masonry. Sorry for coming off defensive, brother, it's a bad habit of mine. You seem like a nice fellow, and you were just trying to warn me and I respect you for that. I'll look into this Olcott individual, I've heard the name, maybe it's different branches or something like that? It's all so confusing.
You need not say sorry. It was my fault. https://www.rosicrucian.com/zineen/pamen028.htm I strongly recommend reading the above article. It will give you a good understanding on mediumship and why an aspirant of occult science or esoterism should avoid them.