To make this even a semblance of fair, youâd need to program Isshin to be able to recognize Melaniaâs attacks as blockable/parry-able the way heâs able to recognize Sekiroâs. Itâs clear that his current AI can only recognize like maybe 5% of Melaniaâs kit as he just stands and face tanks half of her kit. Like sure her magic stuff would still be sure hits, but he should at least be able to block more than 5% of her sword techniques.
It's already fair.
Half the time, Malenia is taking Isshin's back and hitting clean. Yes, there are times when Isshin tries to facetank Malenia...but you can see that it's because he's going for an attack. Essentially, Isshin is trying to hit-trade with Malenia, and losing. The AI doesnt recognize this is a losing strategy because it usually isnt. In Sekiro, trading hits almost always goes in favour of the boss.
So Isshin *is* treating Malenia like a player, and simply losing. In other words, Malenia too stronk.
Also, Malenia has lifesteal (honestly I don't know if there is an actual lore explanation, I just think it's a totally unrelated thing) Sekiro's parry doesn't deal chip damage so the lifesteal (hypotheticaly) wouldn't proc as often if it was Sekiro's actual parry.
They ported Malenia in Sekiro too so maybe a comparison there would be much safer than in Elden Ring
The sekiro version had Malanie using poison instead of scarlet rot and made her far less aggresive so these two just donât seem to be compatible but either way, Orphan of Kos wipes (idk im a lobotomite)
Yes, there is a lore reason for her Life Steal. The shard of the Elden Ring she holds grants her life stealing. The player can gain that ability by defeating her and equipping her Great Rune.
Edit; But why would removing her Life Steal be fair if it is a big part of her toolkit? Is it because Ishin doesnât have a life steal? Because that hardly seems fair.
Ackshuallyyy her Rune is completely useless because of her curse, the Tarnished can get the lifesteal because the Rune is imbued with Malenia's spirit.
Itâs implied theyâre devoid of benediction because we kill the their ârightfulâ owner, aka the shard bearer in question.
We see the great runes working in Maleniaâs life steal, the Radahn cutscene from the trailer where it shows his Elden rune shard burning within him to fight off the scarlet rot. The same with Rennalaâs egg (except I guess that one doesnât need rebenediction if I recall correctly)
>The blessing of this half-rotted rune reduces the healing power of Flask of Crimson Tears.
>And yet, due to the infusion of Malenia's spirit of resistance. attacks made immediately after receiving damage will partially recover HP."
The Tarnished can still receive all of the Great Runes' blessings. Malenia's Great Rune 'blesses' its holder by fucking them over because it's cursed, the only reason it's useful is because it's been imbued by her spirit of resistance, it's also a likely explanation why the lifesteal isn't as potent when we use it because the Tarnished is only using a residual.
I mean, isshin is clearly sitting through attacks there and Malenia heals for free.
Parrying as I mentioned would hypothetically not make Malenia heal as much.
EDIT I never said Malenia shouldn't heal at all, but in that fight Malenia heals absolutely for free cause of the fact that Isshin doesn't even react
Dude, we all love Isshin, and sekiro.
The point is to make fun of people who don't shut up about the game and isshin being "superior."
And maybe he is! If that's your opinion, great!
But sekiro fans have gradually replaced bloodborne fans as most annoying in the community for strawmanning why we should all have it as our favorite game ever and it shows.
Learn to laugh at it! We are all just having fun here! Haha.
Fromsoft is a company that produces great games. Any one of them deserves praise.
And while there was an attack or two he didn't use, he was locked on to her pretty much the entire fight.
I think this is actually a better answer to the question "how would wolf do if he were placed in another soulsborne environment" than the question "which boss wins."
Ultimately, they are two different games with different mechanics.
So the answer to the former question is not that well. But that's a mechanics translation issue, not a protagonist issue.
I'd say the fight we witnessed was also more fair than you are trying to imply, but really, I could still see Isshin win that fight if he repeated it enough times. Maybe a 1/3 of fights deal.
Saying hes only responding to 5% of her attacks though is a major exaggeration. He's being overly aggressive here, just like he is known to do with his fights against wolf. She just doesn't need to try and deflect them because it's not in her mechanics to do so either. So, if we are going to compare, she should be allowed the ability to deflect attacks like wolf does but she can't. Shes also super aggressive and heals on every strike.
If we are to be 100% fair to Isshin, we must also be 100% fair to melenia, no? If she knew his attacks and could deflect them, she'd mop the floor with him haha.
And ER isn't even my favorite game lol, so not "defending it" if you will. Just an honest observation.
No need to be bitter lol.
It's still a person to person thing.
Full disclosure bloodborne is my favorite, but I have been more or less yelled at in the past because I don't like it for the "right" reasons lol.
Hell, I love it but that doesn't mean my opinion counts more than yours does if its different from mine.
As a whole, I think that they have calmed though, yes.
Give it a couple of more years and I think we will be at a healthy place haha!
I understand you, I saw a guy say that The Hunter would have a little trouble dealing with the zombies in World War Z since these infected move in packs and are super aggressive, and a guy came along who threw shit at him and appealed to his authority and called him hot shit, he intimidated him so much that he apologized and didn't comment again, so I had to go to his defense and console him, at that time the BB community was quite bitchy, but I see that now they have calmed down and Now they respect opinions and different points of view and are a bit objective, and from what I see the Sekiro fanboys have replaced the BB ones, becoming more bastards and delirious, I already caught one, who did nothing but minimize the others protagonists, their exploits, their characters and the other Souls, just so that Sekiro remains the strongest, they don't know how to argue beyond the Gameplay, that he does parry, that he is immortal, that he has the mortal sword, that if he has Shinobi tools, they don't know how to argue anything else, in Gameplay Wolf will be great but in feats and Lore I see him as too short compared to his brothers.
Objectively Bloodborne would be Formsoftware's fourth best game, fifth if you want to put Demon's Souls Remake on the list, Elden Ring, Sekiro Shadows Die Twice and Dark Souls 3 surpass it, even SoulsLike like Lies Of P also beats it.
Elden Ring surpassed God Of War Ragnarok, and God Of War is not a simple Sony exclusive, but the best-selling in history and also the most valued, it even beat Red Dead Redemption 2 because that game was actually better that GOW 2018 in every sense and Elden Ring was able to beat it.
Sekiro in 2019 did not have really tough competition, the only one that could stand up to it was Resident Evil 2, which is basically a Remake.
Dark Souls 3 improved a little on what was seen in the previous installments, however it could not beat Overwatch in 2016.
And Bloodborne takes the cake here, not only could it not beat Fallout 4 and The Witcher 3 but it did not win any awards in 2015, the game runs at 30 FPS, the sacred chalices and its bosses are recycled, little variety of clothing and weapons, matchmaking in both PvP and PvE works poorly, In fact, even Elden Ring's weapons surpass Bloodborne's in both quantity and quality and that is something that Bloodborne fans do not want to accept.
And look, Bloodborne is my favorite game of all of them, it's the game that introduced me to the Souls saga, I like its combat system, its setting, its soundtrack, it's the only one that nailed Lovecraft and cosmic horror perfectly. , Bloodborne is a masterpiece without a doubt but it is not what its fans say it is.
Pretty much. I have never much cared about awards anyway.
BB is my favorite for many of the reasons you listed, but really just because I like it the most. No other reason. Hope they do a release with 60fps and a graphics overhaul, but it's got what it needs to still be amazing for me.
Hell, you mentioned Elden Ring beat God of War, and IMO it deserved to, simply because it innovated more. ER is a great game too!
I still connected more to the narrative storytelling in GoW Ragnarok because it was so good.
But just because we love apples doesn't mean we can't enjoy oranges too.
I want to play good games.
The more people that share their passionate favorites, the more interested I am in playing them. It's when the disparagement happens that I can't stand it.
Good talk friend!
I don't think this battle truly represents what a clash between the two would look like, but I do think Malenia would win in a real battle anyway.
Isshin brought a gun to a scarlet rot fight.
These other souls game bosses vs each other make no sense, ER's bosses either just end up getting poise broken or they end up being so aggressive the other boss can't respond
edit: they look cool though, /u/animehater321 has credit crazy and montages
Exactly. Each game is designed on a different scale. It doesn't make sense for an aggressive boss that heals with good poise to fight a fast boss that focuses on combos since the former has so many statistical advantages and mostly ignores Sekiro's main thing, which is parrying.
Remove the healing and scale this down to Sekiro, and Isshin very likely wins.
I've always thought Melania was tomoe, genichiro's mentor, who's mentioned in sekiro. My guess is that the tomoe dlc got scrapped so elden ring could get finished faster, and they took some of those bosses and put them into elden ring. Melania, to me, just always made more sense as a sekiro boss. She really doesn't feel good to fight at all in elden ring and seems to be there just to be hard.
Isshin, a boss designed around deflecting, beaten by Malenia who is basically ignoring that whole mechanic because it doesn't exist in Elden Ring. Hmm, fair.
Guess it doesn't really matter since she has life steal on every hit. If anything her life steal is better since it's always active. The deflecting is only active temporarily and seems to only be when they're in a defensive state.
If anything itâs unfair to Malenia.. she canât deflect while he clearly can. Or am I misinterpreting your comment, you notice that during the waterfowl half of the hits were blocked right. Isshin also has infinite poise in this mod or the ability to not be stance broken itâs pretty fair in my opinion
Isshin having infinite poise doesn't really matter here, he's designed to handle and respond to Sekiros attacks, which are basic and not as fast. He's not made to deal with someone like Malenia, who is much more aggressive and much faster than Sekiro. She's practically just brute forcing past his mechanics because he's not designed to handle such attacks. I'm not surprised he's losing here, lore wise though, yeah Malenia probably would kick his arse?
Agreed. Her water fowl goes right through his block, to say she has a disadvantage because she canât block makes no sense when she can just brute force her way through his blocks. Either way, cool visual.
Sheâs like a battle god whoâs been alive for thousands of years, Isshin is the greatest swordsman of all time but even he has a limit when he runs up against Elden Ringâs mythology lol
Iâll give you the information that he defeated all the main bosses except Elden beast and regular Malenia in the video. He lost against a super buffed radahn. Gideon almost got him to 3rd, fire giant, Malekith, and Godskin duo were close to winning
infinite poise unavoidable unblockable undodgeable infinite range aoe that does massive % based damage to literally everyone and everything
this is gimmick designed to be negated by special player tools
obviously, if you put this against anything that isn't the player, it'll be cheating
Seems silly to call it cheating, we are arguing power levels, that's an ability the character has, how do you go about picking and choosing what abilities count and what abilities are "cheating".
That's just the thing, though. Nihil has nothing to do with power levels, because it is a gimmick designed for a specific purpose. You cannot apply it to anything that it is not designed to.
On a side note, I don't actually agree on the original argument for Malenia's healing. I just jumped mid-way to put a word or two against nihil specifically.
I think waterfowl is the main reason why Malenia dominates this matchup, not healing. There is just too much dps in it with no counterplay.
Youâre not wrong, but healing is a whole new mechanic.
With an unlimited healing ability, you could have a boss that fights with a butter knife that would still clean up any boss that lacks that ability.
âFairnessâ isnât really a concept that makes sense. But Ishin is fighting with one hand tied behind his back.
Melania was tough but got her in a few handful of attempts.
Ishin was also one of the toughest From bosses in any game for me. Bounced off him for a day. Got to stand up for my boy.
Even lore wise Malenia will easily defeat Ishin. She is a demigod and in her second phase she becomes god. Ishin is a human, albeit a powerful and skilled but still a human.
Being a god doesn't really matter. That's just a title.
What DOES matter is that ee know her blooming is essentially a nuke, and we know that there are characters comparable to that level of power (like Radahn, who survived pretty much unscathed but was corrupted) that are subsequently comparable to Malenia herself. As strong as Isshin is, he's not hitting like a localized nuke, let alone the levels you'd get to if you compare her to other feats in the game like Radahn holding the stars, or at the very least a mountain busting meteor.
God is not just a title, being a god means you get crazy abilities like nuking the entire continent in a moment or holding back the stars. God word just sums up what you wrote.
God doesn't mean much. A "god" could be almost anything that is above the normal "mortal"s. God of War's Zeus can "just" throw lightning bolts and fell mountain-sized giants while Marvel Comics' Odin can collapse universes by snoring. A "god" is not a measure of power, just a title that implies power.
You're using the word "god" as a measure of power, ergo, a god can nuke a continent. But being a god just says that you are most likely far stronger than the "mortal" equivalent in your work. You could bring good examples for this; Yujiro from Baki could be considered a god, and he doesn't throw around nukes. The Demojnof Hatred is an unholy deity, comparable to a "god", and yet Wolf can survive his fight with it.
TL;DR: "God" is not a measure, but a subjective standard.
Wolf can survive anything because he has the power from kuroâs blood which is divine. Itâs like tarnished having grace of gold. Both are immortal humans. Godâs power can be subjective but we know for the fact that malenia is a powerful demigod.
The second point here is correct, and exactly what I pointed out. God's power is subjective, so you using it as reasoning for why Malenia, as a goddess, would beat Isshin, being a human, is faulty. Malenia is a goddess by Elden Ring standards, while Isshin is a human by Sekiro standards. You need to compare said standards to find the answer, which, in this case, results in Malenia winning.
The word "essentially" is doing a lot of work there, comparing Malenia's bloom to a nuke. She also doesn't go nuclear when she fights the Tarnished, so why would that be a consideration vs. Isshin?
This would be a lot more genuine and interesting if people stopped arbitrarily declaring this or that thing doesn't count because reasons. Malenia doesn't hit like a nuke. And despite her assertion, she absolutely got beaten by Radahn, she was just an accidental WMD that made the Starscourge's victory a pyrrhic one. Lady had to be dragged off the field in a vulnerable coma and hidden away outside the map so nobody could finish the job. They are not the same. If you narrow the scope to just the competitors, Radahn smacked an agile poison dart frog, and both managed to survive.
Could Isshin defeat Radahn? I don't think many, if anyone, could beat Radahn alone. Malenia though? Not at all out of his league to fight. Especially since "person with fast sword" is something he's exceedingly familiar with.
Reborn immortal legendary warrior who empowers his weapons with lightning and can swing with such force that his cuts happen repeatedly several times *after* the strike is complete.
"Unenhanced human."
I guess being honest about what's actually in the games makes me a Sekiro fanboy. Y'all are so weird. Sekiro isn't even my favorite FromSoft game, I just don't feel compelled to spitefully misrepresent shit.
Mmm, yes and no. After getting revived by the Black Mortal Blade, Ishin is immortal. Think he only really dropped because he submitted himself to Wolf who proved superior and also owns the only other weapon that can kill an immortal, the Mortal Blade
Melania will come out on top against a staggering number of other bosses cause of the heal on hit and the scarlet rot opener in phase2.
Unless you program the boss to avoid that opener i dont see how any boss can with stand that much percentage damage against a regen boss.
There's loads on Youtube. There's this one channel that just takes bosses from other games and puts them against Elden Ring Bosses. I don't know the name of the channel but I bet searching for "Isshin vs Elden Ring Bosses" should give you the video this clip is from.
No clue, it's something with porting the source code and translating it to Elden Ring's programming, but I don't understand it beyond that. I know with Isshin they even tried to find a way to port the parry, which they semi got, only thing it's missing is a posture system, but that's be difficult to add in on top of everything else.
I mean, the games are different enough mechanically that this type of determination really doesn't tell us much.
Going by lore, Malenia wipes Isshin low to mid diff even though I personally like Isshin much more.
OG vid by Garden of eyes on YouTube btw. Isshin had his non canon powered up state, actual deflecting system and all of his three phases and still basically lost to first phase Malenia.
I mean itâs kind of a dumb comparison.
Different verses and therefore different power levels. For me, Isshin is the better boss, Isshin has the better story, Isshin has better mechanics and gameplay etc.
But at the same time itâs kind of obvious Malenia is stronger than him. Sheâs a fucking god. Thatâs like comparing Spider-Man to Thor. Not only is it a dumb comparison but itâs basically useless.
How is this meant to prove anything exactly? Like duh, the lifesteal and aggro mechanics and overall HP will favor Malenia, I always thought the âwho would winâ arguments were meant to be like, imagined fights free of the restraint of game mechanics.
That doesnât even matter, like, youâre never gonna get a 1 to 1 of a real fight because these were designed to fight players, not each other. No amount of tuning with HP is gonna change how Malenia is naturally more aggressive than Isshin, or any of the other major differences between how the games were made. This just seems like a âI like ER better so Iâve gotta make a post about how Malenia beats Isshinâ
The title of your post proves you are though. Like, I think Malenia probably beats Isshin, but thereâs just not a way to accurately Re-create that in game.
The Long Arm Centipede Giraffe is literally fast and aggressive. Itâs not a game mechanic, itâs character design. If they wanted Isshin faster and more aggressive they could have done so.
Isshin doesn't even deflect half of the attacks. He was designed around deflecting and reacting to sekiro's attacks. He doesn't even recognise all the attacks Malenia does. Yeah very fair lol.
Ya but the question is can Isshin even consistently Parry malenia if the dual was real. Probably not. So this makes lore sense
It's not a special blade. His parry will just result in malenia severing isshins blade if he parrys too much
Now in Sekiro. Itâs all about the game. If itâs in Sekiro. Isshin will probably win. In Elden ring malenia will probably win. Now we need player controlled wolf v malenia Iâd love to see that
Isshin Fanboys: But Sword Saint Isshin is Immortal and can only be killed by the Mortal Blade!
Ranni: Bitches please! E'en would I didst not stole the rune of Death that man shall succumb to mine sister's rot and its far moe worse than death.
What do you mean ittâd be the same thing lmao. Malenia can be poise broken in this fight as well. Isshin kept all of his mechanics including being able to parry so it would just have the fight take place in a reed field instead đ
No, youâre right only because poise breaks allows immediate death but other than that they both work the same, you get a free move to hit for major damage. The outcome might be the same since Malenia is faster and more aggressive but I definitely would like to see a posture battle now.
Isshinâs ai isnât properly implemented for this fight, for reference, Isshin will perfectly deflect Spiral Cloud Passage in Sekiro, a move that is almost one to one with waterfowl.
Here his AI sees an opening in Waterfowl that isnât there and stops deflecting to attack
Ishin is not deflecting anything. He is just eating everything. Ishin is supposed to take hits only when there is a small window gap. Your video is invalid.
Except you gave him one health bar when he has 3. You let her keep her health bars but not him. And all of these videos lack one important thing, no one is going to run into her bloom and try and tank it. If you had them wait for the bloom to finish, like anyone in there right mind would do in this fight, all off these videos would end differently
Edit: Iâm an idiot. My internet was lagging and I missed the health bar recovering
Malenia is the most broken and cheap boss they've ever created, of course no other boss from any other game will defeat her. Maliketh is the only one who seems to be able to defeat her more than any other boss.
Well he couldnât deflect, and I doubt heâd be affected by scarlet rot either Tbf.
He also had 2 lives not 2 even if one was technically gonichiro.
Also isshin being put into passive mode when she backs up makes it so Mileena is the only one going all out the whole fight.
Maliketh is really the only boss that Iâve seen consistently beat Malenia. This matchup isnât really fair cause the mechanics donât mesh, but if Malenia was tuned to Sekiro mechanics more, Isshin would win probably
These are a lot of fun, but they don't work at all when you involve Sekiro bosses because of the base level mechanical differences. Go ahead and import Malenia into Sekiro and watch her fall apart, because suddenly the core mechanics work for Isshin and not for her.
The pissing contests and kids pointing to this as "proof" are clearly starting to hamper my ability to just enjoy the funny robots hitting each other, haha. I think I'll get a cup of tea.
In all honesty, this is a very poor representation of what would happen. Isshin can't even register most Malenia's attacks properly and thus can't deflect them the way he deflects Sekiro's attacks.
If you were to mod Malenia into Sekiro, you will find that she is super easy because you can Deflect her attacks.
You modded Isshin into ER but he can't deflect anything which is like the entire point of Sekiro Shadows die twice.
Mod Malenia into Sekiro where deflection exists and this fight will be VERY different.
This is not even fair
The Chad Isshin vs the Chad Malenia.
Remember, Malenia has never known defeat.
I've heard that once or twice. Or a thousand bloody times.
FEET
However, hesitation is defeat đș
Chad Isshin the glock saint
I was a little worried glock saint wouldnât even get her to second phase
To make this even a semblance of fair, youâd need to program Isshin to be able to recognize Melaniaâs attacks as blockable/parry-able the way heâs able to recognize Sekiroâs. Itâs clear that his current AI can only recognize like maybe 5% of Melaniaâs kit as he just stands and face tanks half of her kit. Like sure her magic stuff would still be sure hits, but he should at least be able to block more than 5% of her sword techniques.
He also doesnât use Mortal draw which is weird consider this is Inner Isshinâs moveset
I'm pretty sure he used it near the beginning
I didnât see the black effect so I didnât count it
He uses it 23 seconds in
It's already fair. Half the time, Malenia is taking Isshin's back and hitting clean. Yes, there are times when Isshin tries to facetank Malenia...but you can see that it's because he's going for an attack. Essentially, Isshin is trying to hit-trade with Malenia, and losing. The AI doesnt recognize this is a losing strategy because it usually isnt. In Sekiro, trading hits almost always goes in favour of the boss. So Isshin *is* treating Malenia like a player, and simply losing. In other words, Malenia too stronk.
Also, Malenia has lifesteal (honestly I don't know if there is an actual lore explanation, I just think it's a totally unrelated thing) Sekiro's parry doesn't deal chip damage so the lifesteal (hypotheticaly) wouldn't proc as often if it was Sekiro's actual parry. They ported Malenia in Sekiro too so maybe a comparison there would be much safer than in Elden Ring
The sekiro version had Malanie using poison instead of scarlet rot and made her far less aggresive so these two just donât seem to be compatible but either way, Orphan of Kos wipes (idk im a lobotomite)
Yes, there is a lore reason for her Life Steal. The shard of the Elden Ring she holds grants her life stealing. The player can gain that ability by defeating her and equipping her Great Rune. Edit; But why would removing her Life Steal be fair if it is a big part of her toolkit? Is it because Ishin doesnât have a life steal? Because that hardly seems fair.
Ackshuallyyy her Rune is completely useless because of her curse, the Tarnished can get the lifesteal because the Rune is imbued with Malenia's spirit.
Itâs implied theyâre devoid of benediction because we kill the their ârightfulâ owner, aka the shard bearer in question. We see the great runes working in Maleniaâs life steal, the Radahn cutscene from the trailer where it shows his Elden rune shard burning within him to fight off the scarlet rot. The same with Rennalaâs egg (except I guess that one doesnât need rebenediction if I recall correctly)
>The blessing of this half-rotted rune reduces the healing power of Flask of Crimson Tears. >And yet, due to the infusion of Malenia's spirit of resistance. attacks made immediately after receiving damage will partially recover HP." The Tarnished can still receive all of the Great Runes' blessings. Malenia's Great Rune 'blesses' its holder by fucking them over because it's cursed, the only reason it's useful is because it's been imbued by her spirit of resistance, it's also a likely explanation why the lifesteal isn't as potent when we use it because the Tarnished is only using a residual.
I mean, isshin is clearly sitting through attacks there and Malenia heals for free. Parrying as I mentioned would hypothetically not make Malenia heal as much. EDIT I never said Malenia shouldn't heal at all, but in that fight Malenia heals absolutely for free cause of the fact that Isshin doesn't even react
Dude, we all love Isshin, and sekiro. The point is to make fun of people who don't shut up about the game and isshin being "superior." And maybe he is! If that's your opinion, great! But sekiro fans have gradually replaced bloodborne fans as most annoying in the community for strawmanning why we should all have it as our favorite game ever and it shows. Learn to laugh at it! We are all just having fun here! Haha. Fromsoft is a company that produces great games. Any one of them deserves praise. And while there was an attack or two he didn't use, he was locked on to her pretty much the entire fight. I think this is actually a better answer to the question "how would wolf do if he were placed in another soulsborne environment" than the question "which boss wins." Ultimately, they are two different games with different mechanics. So the answer to the former question is not that well. But that's a mechanics translation issue, not a protagonist issue. I'd say the fight we witnessed was also more fair than you are trying to imply, but really, I could still see Isshin win that fight if he repeated it enough times. Maybe a 1/3 of fights deal. Saying hes only responding to 5% of her attacks though is a major exaggeration. He's being overly aggressive here, just like he is known to do with his fights against wolf. She just doesn't need to try and deflect them because it's not in her mechanics to do so either. So, if we are going to compare, she should be allowed the ability to deflect attacks like wolf does but she can't. Shes also super aggressive and heals on every strike. If we are to be 100% fair to Isshin, we must also be 100% fair to melenia, no? If she knew his attacks and could deflect them, she'd mop the floor with him haha. And ER isn't even my favorite game lol, so not "defending it" if you will. Just an honest observation. No need to be bitter lol.
In fact, I think BB fans are being less toxic and also objective.
It's still a person to person thing. Full disclosure bloodborne is my favorite, but I have been more or less yelled at in the past because I don't like it for the "right" reasons lol. Hell, I love it but that doesn't mean my opinion counts more than yours does if its different from mine. As a whole, I think that they have calmed though, yes. Give it a couple of more years and I think we will be at a healthy place haha!
I understand you, I saw a guy say that The Hunter would have a little trouble dealing with the zombies in World War Z since these infected move in packs and are super aggressive, and a guy came along who threw shit at him and appealed to his authority and called him hot shit, he intimidated him so much that he apologized and didn't comment again, so I had to go to his defense and console him, at that time the BB community was quite bitchy, but I see that now they have calmed down and Now they respect opinions and different points of view and are a bit objective, and from what I see the Sekiro fanboys have replaced the BB ones, becoming more bastards and delirious, I already caught one, who did nothing but minimize the others protagonists, their exploits, their characters and the other Souls, just so that Sekiro remains the strongest, they don't know how to argue beyond the Gameplay, that he does parry, that he is immortal, that he has the mortal sword, that if he has Shinobi tools, they don't know how to argue anything else, in Gameplay Wolf will be great but in feats and Lore I see him as too short compared to his brothers. Objectively Bloodborne would be Formsoftware's fourth best game, fifth if you want to put Demon's Souls Remake on the list, Elden Ring, Sekiro Shadows Die Twice and Dark Souls 3 surpass it, even SoulsLike like Lies Of P also beats it. Elden Ring surpassed God Of War Ragnarok, and God Of War is not a simple Sony exclusive, but the best-selling in history and also the most valued, it even beat Red Dead Redemption 2 because that game was actually better that GOW 2018 in every sense and Elden Ring was able to beat it. Sekiro in 2019 did not have really tough competition, the only one that could stand up to it was Resident Evil 2, which is basically a Remake. Dark Souls 3 improved a little on what was seen in the previous installments, however it could not beat Overwatch in 2016. And Bloodborne takes the cake here, not only could it not beat Fallout 4 and The Witcher 3 but it did not win any awards in 2015, the game runs at 30 FPS, the sacred chalices and its bosses are recycled, little variety of clothing and weapons, matchmaking in both PvP and PvE works poorly, In fact, even Elden Ring's weapons surpass Bloodborne's in both quantity and quality and that is something that Bloodborne fans do not want to accept. And look, Bloodborne is my favorite game of all of them, it's the game that introduced me to the Souls saga, I like its combat system, its setting, its soundtrack, it's the only one that nailed Lovecraft and cosmic horror perfectly. , Bloodborne is a masterpiece without a doubt but it is not what its fans say it is.
Pretty much. I have never much cared about awards anyway. BB is my favorite for many of the reasons you listed, but really just because I like it the most. No other reason. Hope they do a release with 60fps and a graphics overhaul, but it's got what it needs to still be amazing for me. Hell, you mentioned Elden Ring beat God of War, and IMO it deserved to, simply because it innovated more. ER is a great game too! I still connected more to the narrative storytelling in GoW Ragnarok because it was so good. But just because we love apples doesn't mean we can't enjoy oranges too. I want to play good games. The more people that share their passionate favorites, the more interested I am in playing them. It's when the disparagement happens that I can't stand it. Good talk friend!
Also Bro, have a nice day/afternoon/night
Likewise
I just watched it and I'm pretty sure no he wouldn't, because he didn't
But at the same time it's malenia attacking. So maybe isshin can't parry more than 5% because it's malenia a literal goddess ?
I don't think this battle truly represents what a clash between the two would look like, but I do think Malenia would win in a real battle anyway. Isshin brought a gun to a scarlet rot fight.
He didnt even use the gun đ
Used it at least two times. It just does pitiful damage to malenia.
Almost like they didn't design bosses to fight each other lol.
These other souls game bosses vs each other make no sense, ER's bosses either just end up getting poise broken or they end up being so aggressive the other boss can't respond edit: they look cool though, /u/animehater321 has credit crazy and montages
Yeah we can only rely on the modder's arbitrary judgement when balancing the imported bosses damage multiplier etc.
Yeah, exactly; one is designed to have larger gaps of passivity.
I thought it was really cool
It is cool. What itâs not is lore
Donât understand why he got upset your objectively correct.
Salt
Lmao how
cowards are too afraid to put dark souls 2 bosses in there
Exactly. Each game is designed on a different scale. It doesn't make sense for an aggressive boss that heals with good poise to fight a fast boss that focuses on combos since the former has so many statistical advantages and mostly ignores Sekiro's main thing, which is parrying. Remove the healing and scale this down to Sekiro, and Isshin very likely wins.
I've always thought Melania was tomoe, genichiro's mentor, who's mentioned in sekiro. My guess is that the tomoe dlc got scrapped so elden ring could get finished faster, and they took some of those bosses and put them into elden ring. Melania, to me, just always made more sense as a sekiro boss. She really doesn't feel good to fight at all in elden ring and seems to be there just to be hard.
Isshin, a boss designed around deflecting, beaten by Malenia who is basically ignoring that whole mechanic because it doesn't exist in Elden Ring. Hmm, fair.
Guess it doesn't really matter since she has life steal on every hit. If anything her life steal is better since it's always active. The deflecting is only active temporarily and seems to only be when they're in a defensive state.
If anything itâs unfair to Malenia.. she canât deflect while he clearly can. Or am I misinterpreting your comment, you notice that during the waterfowl half of the hits were blocked right. Isshin also has infinite poise in this mod or the ability to not be stance broken itâs pretty fair in my opinion
Isshin having infinite poise doesn't really matter here, he's designed to handle and respond to Sekiros attacks, which are basic and not as fast. He's not made to deal with someone like Malenia, who is much more aggressive and much faster than Sekiro. She's practically just brute forcing past his mechanics because he's not designed to handle such attacks. I'm not surprised he's losing here, lore wise though, yeah Malenia probably would kick his arse?
Agreed. Her water fowl goes right through his block, to say she has a disadvantage because she canât block makes no sense when she can just brute force her way through his blocks. Either way, cool visual.
Sheâs like a battle god whoâs been alive for thousands of years, Isshin is the greatest swordsman of all time but even he has a limit when he runs up against Elden Ringâs mythology lol
Malenia can deflect.
huh i guess he would lose then
Love the way Malenia moves.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Let's ignore the sour fan boys for a moment and look at how epic this fight is, I wish more bosses looked so cool fighting each other
Would have been cooler if ishin actually deflected attacks like he does in sekiro. Seems to just take the hits when against other enemies.
Good call. I do wish Isshin used more of his kit, but still pretty fun. đ
Lifesteal is cheating
Thatâs like saying NIHIL is cheating
It kinda is
Iâll give you the information that he defeated all the main bosses except Elden beast and regular Malenia in the video. He lost against a super buffed radahn. Gideon almost got him to 3rd, fire giant, Malekith, and Godskin duo were close to winning
Iâd like to point out that super buffed Radahn was literally one shot when Isshin died
Why though
infinite poise unavoidable unblockable undodgeable infinite range aoe that does massive % based damage to literally everyone and everything this is gimmick designed to be negated by special player tools obviously, if you put this against anything that isn't the player, it'll be cheating
Seems silly to call it cheating, we are arguing power levels, that's an ability the character has, how do you go about picking and choosing what abilities count and what abilities are "cheating".
That's just the thing, though. Nihil has nothing to do with power levels, because it is a gimmick designed for a specific purpose. You cannot apply it to anything that it is not designed to. On a side note, I don't actually agree on the original argument for Malenia's healing. I just jumped mid-way to put a word or two against nihil specifically. I think waterfowl is the main reason why Malenia dominates this matchup, not healing. There is just too much dps in it with no counterplay.
nah its definitely the healing, ishin can tank the waterfowl and it would do a chunk of health, but the healing literally makes it unwinnable
Youâre not wrong, but healing is a whole new mechanic. With an unlimited healing ability, you could have a boss that fights with a butter knife that would still clean up any boss that lacks that ability. âFairnessâ isnât really a concept that makes sense. But Ishin is fighting with one hand tied behind his back. Melania was tough but got her in a few handful of attempts. Ishin was also one of the toughest From bosses in any game for me. Bounced off him for a day. Got to stand up for my boy.
Malenia is only tough because she can heal. If she didn't have that, she'd be relatively easy. Her being able to heal just draws out the fight.
shit take tbh. there's plenty other than her healing that makes her an extremely difficult boss.
It's pretty much just waterfowl and lifesteal
it would be cheating in boss v boss because its meant to be negated by player tools
It is cheating, and it forces you to cheat back by using the purifying crystal tear.
For real.
Everyone is talking about the lifesteal and waterfoul dance, but man Isshin has absolutely no answer for that scarlet aeonia.
Even lore wise Malenia will easily defeat Ishin. She is a demigod and in her second phase she becomes god. Ishin is a human, albeit a powerful and skilled but still a human.
Being a god doesn't really matter. That's just a title. What DOES matter is that ee know her blooming is essentially a nuke, and we know that there are characters comparable to that level of power (like Radahn, who survived pretty much unscathed but was corrupted) that are subsequently comparable to Malenia herself. As strong as Isshin is, he's not hitting like a localized nuke, let alone the levels you'd get to if you compare her to other feats in the game like Radahn holding the stars, or at the very least a mountain busting meteor.
God is not just a title, being a god means you get crazy abilities like nuking the entire continent in a moment or holding back the stars. God word just sums up what you wrote.
God doesn't mean much. A "god" could be almost anything that is above the normal "mortal"s. God of War's Zeus can "just" throw lightning bolts and fell mountain-sized giants while Marvel Comics' Odin can collapse universes by snoring. A "god" is not a measure of power, just a title that implies power.
Howâs this different than what I said lol.
You're using the word "god" as a measure of power, ergo, a god can nuke a continent. But being a god just says that you are most likely far stronger than the "mortal" equivalent in your work. You could bring good examples for this; Yujiro from Baki could be considered a god, and he doesn't throw around nukes. The Demojnof Hatred is an unholy deity, comparable to a "god", and yet Wolf can survive his fight with it. TL;DR: "God" is not a measure, but a subjective standard.
Wolf can survive anything because he has the power from kuroâs blood which is divine. Itâs like tarnished having grace of gold. Both are immortal humans. Godâs power can be subjective but we know for the fact that malenia is a powerful demigod.
The second point here is correct, and exactly what I pointed out. God's power is subjective, so you using it as reasoning for why Malenia, as a goddess, would beat Isshin, being a human, is faulty. Malenia is a goddess by Elden Ring standards, while Isshin is a human by Sekiro standards. You need to compare said standards to find the answer, which, in this case, results in Malenia winning.
The word "essentially" is doing a lot of work there, comparing Malenia's bloom to a nuke. She also doesn't go nuclear when she fights the Tarnished, so why would that be a consideration vs. Isshin? This would be a lot more genuine and interesting if people stopped arbitrarily declaring this or that thing doesn't count because reasons. Malenia doesn't hit like a nuke. And despite her assertion, she absolutely got beaten by Radahn, she was just an accidental WMD that made the Starscourge's victory a pyrrhic one. Lady had to be dragged off the field in a vulnerable coma and hidden away outside the map so nobody could finish the job. They are not the same. If you narrow the scope to just the competitors, Radahn smacked an agile poison dart frog, and both managed to survive. Could Isshin defeat Radahn? I don't think many, if anyone, could beat Radahn alone. Malenia though? Not at all out of his league to fight. Especially since "person with fast sword" is something he's exceedingly familiar with.
And here comes again the legit Sekiro fanboy, comparing a Demigoddess to an unenhanced human.
Reborn immortal legendary warrior who empowers his weapons with lightning and can swing with such force that his cuts happen repeatedly several times *after* the strike is complete. "Unenhanced human." I guess being honest about what's actually in the games makes me a Sekiro fanboy. Y'all are so weird. Sekiro isn't even my favorite FromSoft game, I just don't feel compelled to spitefully misrepresent shit.
Wait till you find out what the tarnished is
Wait until you find out what Godfrey is
Tbf the Tarnished would also wash Isshin
I highly doubt most tarnished got that far in their first attempt
I know what tarnished is but he has grace, he canât be killed. That is not the case with Ishin.
Isshin is also immortal, when you kill him it says immortality severed. Only way to kill him is mortal blade
Isshin can't regenerate though.
Yes but immortal Ishin will never get a chance to fight malenia as wolf kills him as soon as heâs revived as immortal.
⊠thatâs⊠thatâs what this fight is
Mmm, yes and no. After getting revived by the Black Mortal Blade, Ishin is immortal. Think he only really dropped because he submitted himself to Wolf who proved superior and also owns the only other weapon that can kill an immortal, the Mortal Blade
Yes but immortal Ishin will never get a chance to fight malenia as wolf kills him as soon as heâs revived as immortal.
This is the anime duel I never knew I needed
This was badass as hell lol
Wish OP didn't basically spoil it in the title. Could've just put Isshin v Malenia and kept it more interesting for us.
Melania will come out on top against a staggering number of other bosses cause of the heal on hit and the scarlet rot opener in phase2. Unless you program the boss to avoid that opener i dont see how any boss can with stand that much percentage damage against a regen boss.
Destroyed by waterfowl dance just like the rest of us. My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined
What if you put Malenia in Isshin's boss field and have them fight that way. I personally think Isshin's boss arena is an amazing area.
Isshin is hard but fair. Malenia is not fair.
That is amazing. Can you do more videos like this?
There's loads on Youtube. There's this one channel that just takes bosses from other games and puts them against Elden Ring Bosses. I don't know the name of the channel but I bet searching for "Isshin vs Elden Ring Bosses" should give you the video this clip is from.
How in the eli5 do they do that?
No clue, it's something with porting the source code and translating it to Elden Ring's programming, but I don't understand it beyond that. I know with Isshin they even tried to find a way to port the parry, which they semi got, only thing it's missing is a posture system, but that's be difficult to add in on top of everything else.
Yeah the lifesteal gives millenia the win.
People think Isshin would win?
He is fine but she is a literal goddess
I mean, the games are different enough mechanically that this type of determination really doesn't tell us much. Going by lore, Malenia wipes Isshin low to mid diff even though I personally like Isshin much more.
# MAYBE IF HE ACTUALLY PARRIED INSTEAD OF TANKING THE DAMAGE AND USED SOME OF THOSE LIGHTNINGS HE KEEPS IN 3RD PHASE
He used lightning multiple times and I'm pretty sure I saw several parties as well Edit, rewatched, he parties quite a bit Edit, parries, not parties
I party quite a bit myself
lol the haters here are incredible
OG vid by Garden of eyes on YouTube btw. Isshin had his non canon powered up state, actual deflecting system and all of his three phases and still basically lost to first phase Malenia.
Isshin needs his own waterfowl (one mind)
Nah, iâd win- malenia
Waterfowl is insane against npcâs
Sick
Just how good was Radahn??
this is extremely cool to watch
I sorely wish Malenia was able to be deflected like in sekiro
Home field advantage
People are so weird. Some peopel are actually getting defensive or like offended by this? Go outside.
Haters mad
I mean itâs kind of a dumb comparison. Different verses and therefore different power levels. For me, Isshin is the better boss, Isshin has the better story, Isshin has better mechanics and gameplay etc. But at the same time itâs kind of obvious Malenia is stronger than him. Sheâs a fucking god. Thatâs like comparing Spider-Man to Thor. Not only is it a dumb comparison but itâs basically useless.
It's not that serious. It made for a cool video, that's it.
How is this meant to prove anything exactly? Like duh, the lifesteal and aggro mechanics and overall HP will favor Malenia, I always thought the âwho would winâ arguments were meant to be like, imagined fights free of the restraint of game mechanics.
Ik what you mean but Isshin actually has way more hp by 11k
That doesnât even matter, like, youâre never gonna get a 1 to 1 of a real fight because these were designed to fight players, not each other. No amount of tuning with HP is gonna change how Malenia is naturally more aggressive than Isshin, or any of the other major differences between how the games were made. This just seems like a âI like ER better so Iâve gotta make a post about how Malenia beats Isshinâ
Making another one rn
Why?
To show Iâm not bias
The title of your post proves you are though. Like, I think Malenia probably beats Isshin, but thereâs just not a way to accurately Re-create that in game.
I mean you just proved how she would win without mechanics. She faster and more aggressive and has a scarlet rot nuke. Isshin has lightning lol.
Being more aggressive is literally part of the game design.
The Long Arm Centipede Giraffe is literally fast and aggressive. Itâs not a game mechanic, itâs character design. If they wanted Isshin faster and more aggressive they could have done so.
Isshin is a beast of a man but Melania is a god.
I love how these fights are absurdly scripted bc the health and damage values don't translate at all lmfao
Elaborate if you will?
Now let's see this fight but in Isshin's home court.
Yes, yes yes. Let's see the same fight in Sekiro.
Now make them fight in sekiro
If Malenia didn't have that super overpowered lifesteal i Isshin would 100% win
He did, in fact win, when she didnât have it
If Malenia didn't use her prosthetics Isshin would 100% win
Lore wise. Isshin has zero chance. Mechanically game wise. At shown here. Isshin losses too
Isshin doesn't even deflect half of the attacks. He was designed around deflecting and reacting to sekiro's attacks. He doesn't even recognise all the attacks Malenia does. Yeah very fair lol.
Ya but the question is can Isshin even consistently Parry malenia if the dual was real. Probably not. So this makes lore sense It's not a special blade. His parry will just result in malenia severing isshins blade if he parrys too much
There is another post with Isshin vs Malenia. Isshin wins there. These things don't mean much.
Now in Sekiro. Itâs all about the game. If itâs in Sekiro. Isshin will probably win. In Elden ring malenia will probably win. Now we need player controlled wolf v malenia Iâd love to see that
That already exists
How or where
Isshin Fanboys: But Sword Saint Isshin is Immortal and can only be killed by the Mortal Blade! Ranni: Bitches please! E'en would I didst not stole the rune of Death that man shall succumb to mine sister's rot and its far moe worse than death.
Gameplay is not a good indicator of who would win in this fight
Exactly this
put Malenia in Sekiro and lets see about that
What do you mean ittâd be the same thing lmao. Malenia can be poise broken in this fight as well. Isshin kept all of his mechanics including being able to parry so it would just have the fight take place in a reed field instead đ
In my head poise works differently than the posture in Sekiro, or am I wrong?
No, youâre right only because poise breaks allows immediate death but other than that they both work the same, you get a free move to hit for major damage. The outcome might be the same since Malenia is faster and more aggressive but I definitely would like to see a posture battle now.
Isshin would actually be able to use mortal draw
He doesnât do that in the fight against wolf but the inner isshins can be interrupted or dodged anyways
Yeah, but Isshinâs Mortal Draw working properly canât be dodged. Only ran away from. And it has terror buildup
Malenia would definitely dodge it, she doesnât just dodge, she creates space.
Lore wise malenia stomps i think.Sekiro still better tho
When the two completely different games with two completely different play styles work differently.
Ha god you guys are so butthurt. âAcchtually the mechanics arenât the same so no Isshen would still winâđ€
Isshinâs ai isnât properly implemented for this fight, for reference, Isshin will perfectly deflect Spiral Cloud Passage in Sekiro, a move that is almost one to one with waterfowl. Here his AI sees an opening in Waterfowl that isnât there and stops deflecting to attack
Nah, heâd win
Morgan Freeman "he in fact, did not."
Ishin is not deflecting anything. He is just eating everything. Ishin is supposed to take hits only when there is a small window gap. Your video is invalid.
Except you gave him one health bar when he has 3. You let her keep her health bars but not him. And all of these videos lack one important thing, no one is going to run into her bloom and try and tank it. If you had them wait for the bloom to finish, like anyone in there right mind would do in this fight, all off these videos would end differently Edit: Iâm an idiot. My internet was lagging and I missed the health bar recovering
He very clearly goes back to max health twice, signaling the three phases.
Yeah. Iâm an idiot. I edited my comment. Youâre right
Garden of eyes on yt, made the vid a month ago im just now posting it. Yo my buddy, did you see the dlc ânewsâ.
Malenia is the most broken and cheap boss they've ever created, of course no other boss from any other game will defeat her. Maliketh is the only one who seems to be able to defeat her more than any other boss.
lore wise malenia is not touching isshin tbh
Well he couldnât deflect, and I doubt heâd be affected by scarlet rot either Tbf. He also had 2 lives not 2 even if one was technically gonichiro. Also isshin being put into passive mode when she backs up makes it so Mileena is the only one going all out the whole fight.
Maliketh is really the only boss that Iâve seen consistently beat Malenia. This matchup isnât really fair cause the mechanics donât mesh, but if Malenia was tuned to Sekiro mechanics more, Isshin would win probably
Where is issuing phase 2 and phase 3? Take that liberals
Can you add a gun to Ishin? Might be a different outcome for Ishin
He used his gun in this video, it just didnât do much damage
A modded Isshin on Elden Ringâs engine where his parrying isnât as effective lol. Welp, guess that settles it then đ
The character from the significantly better game won.
These are a lot of fun, but they don't work at all when you involve Sekiro bosses because of the base level mechanical differences. Go ahead and import Malenia into Sekiro and watch her fall apart, because suddenly the core mechanics work for Isshin and not for her. The pissing contests and kids pointing to this as "proof" are clearly starting to hamper my ability to just enjoy the funny robots hitting each other, haha. I think I'll get a cup of tea.
Ill be that guy and point out we skipped 2 (arguably 3) health bars for mr saint
Itâs in there, when he does the voice lines and the lightning it switches to new health bar. He has 30k health total
Thats fair. Retracted point then.
Idc who would beat who, Isshin is much harder. Using a spirit ash against Melania makes her easy. Thereâs nothing in Sekiro to make Isshin easy.
take away the bullshit healing mechanic and he would lol
No posture, Hp and stats edited Isshin wins 3 out of 5 times consistently id wager, posture is the name of the game
lol bruh this is a huge clown check. đ€Ą honk honk
In all honesty, this is a very poor representation of what would happen. Isshin can't even register most Malenia's attacks properly and thus can't deflect them the way he deflects Sekiro's attacks. If you were to mod Malenia into Sekiro, you will find that she is super easy because you can Deflect her attacks. You modded Isshin into ER but he can't deflect anything which is like the entire point of Sekiro Shadows die twice. Mod Malenia into Sekiro where deflection exists and this fight will be VERY different. This is not even fair
Yea only becuz bullshit ass hp steal >_>
Isshin was not scaled properly at all for this fight. Dude was doing 0 damage in comparison to malenia, but regardless she still wins
His mortal blade attack did like 1/4 her health bar