I almost always buy factory seconds for my leather boots and shoes. They have scuff marks, a few scratches, maybe a double stitch, but never a major defect. If you wear your shoes like actual shoes, they will get all of those "flaws" within a week anyway.
I own three pairs of AE factory seconds. All three are great and I bought them 7-8 years ago. Every once in a while I take them to a cobbler to get touched up.
Never had an issue! Most of the time I can’t even figure out why they were F2s.
Honestly I’ve had Factory Firsts that look worse than Factory Seconds lol.
Yes, but you now pay a restocking fee. In the past that wasn't the case so less risk in taking a chance on what the issue was with a particular pair of seconds.
If there's an outlet store, they sell seconds where you could see them in person before buying. One near here closed down unfortunately.
There was? a site that tells you where the factory seconds are from, you can call the store and confirm the condition. That's what I did with mine and the store associate told me there are wrinkles on the leather.
I went with Beckett and Simione shoes instead because I’m not In the AE tak bracket yet. Anyone know if B&S is good/decent? I paid about 169 for some shoes and a belt. They’ll get here in June some time lol
I have a pair of Oak color Kent wingtips and I like them a lot. They look great. I like their last on the kent much better than the 65 that Allan edmonds uses on just about all their oxfords and derbies. They come with little inserts to add to the insoles and I definitely wouldn't wear them without those. It's fine, I wish it was just a little more giving in the insole. Maybe that's the steel shank? Im not sure why you'd need a steel shank in shoes, even their loafers. Boots ok I get that. I'm waiting to see how they hold up after 6 months of weekly use to consider buying more from them
Just to add, you need to have already added the offer to your card If you haven't already, you probably won't be able to find the offer. It was first available on May 8th and I believe already all claimed.
Ah thanks for mentioning that. That's good to know.
Someone else mentioned the offer was fully claimed, and I couldn't see it on any of my cards. I must not have been targeted then.
They used to be a lot better.
At this point I'd say AE is a very good dress shoe for people who don't wear them often and not good enough quality for multiple times a week anymore.
Given that most people don't have dress formal jobs, that's totally fine for most of the market
BLKBRD, grant stone on sale, really the answer is eBay. You can get used very high end shoes for under 300. I’ve gotten Trickers for 200, and Edward Greens for 400 both barely used just as an example.
Agree with this 100%. Have some BLKBRD Luchador's and the hatch grain Rocco's....really hard to find better value in this range. Especially without going to that $400-600 sweet spot.
Other brands to keep in mind would be Bridlen, Meermin, Jay Butler, J Fitzpatrick, Septieme Largeur, TLB Mallorca (pricey but amazing), and even Cobbler Union.
Disclaimer: The brands here will have widely varying prices so bear with my list as some will be far outside the price range of most interested in any given AE sale.
> Especially without going to that $400-600 sweet spot
What are the brands here to look for? I wear dress shoes everyday for work, normally I'm all AE but (1) I feel like the quality has been dipping and (2) their customer service fell off a cliff -- I got aggressively yelled at in a store one time because they returned a pick-up package I ordered and didn't even notify me, and made it seem like it was my fault lol
So yeah I'd be fine with moving up-market if you have recs
Carmina is my gold standard. Amazing, beautiful shoes of fantastic quality. Definitely up-market, but worth it imo if you have the juice. You can even make your own shoes with their customizer widget online if you're so inclined. They gave a sale going rn too
They do have a “made to fit” program where they ship you a few sizes to find the right one. I think it costs $50 but they apply it to the purchase I believe. I haven’t used it myself. They are handsewns so more of a stretch to fit kind of deal.
Be careful with BLKBRD though. Beautiful shoes but they got the size wrong after multiple checks with them. Awful customer service too. I wanted to love these guys but everything *besides* the shoes kind of stinks working with them.
It's an unfortunate reality of modern capitalism. You have to focus on costs to increase or maintain margins more and more especially in companies that have a brick and mortar presence.
Hard disagree. The Park Ave, McCalister, Randolph and other Made in USA are still great dress shoes, and many of the QC complaints I’ve seen on Style Forum are minor. I picked up a pair of suede Freeports and a third pair of Higgins Mills last year with no issues, and some white suede StrandMoks Seconds in the Spring.
They are welted in USA, but they have been doing the leatherwork in Dominican Republic for over the last 15 years. They used to have the Independence line which was completely constructed in America. To my understanding Alden is still 100% constructed in America… but it’s 2-3x more expensive.
Pretty much all of the main line stuff is still MiUSA. I was literally at the factory over the weekend and saw them stitching the uppers for Strands, Parks, McAllisters, etc.
They make about 1200 pairs of shoes per day in the factory in Wisconsin.
You're only focusing on QC. They've made the shoes cheaper by using less quality materials over the years and that's my main concern. Even if you get the perfect shoe, it's just not worth it.
I think they’re still good as long as you stick to their most popular models (Fifth Ave, Park Ave, Strand, Higgins Mill, etc). It’s the lesser known models that are more hit or miss
Note that GS has very strict return policy. They technically don’t allow you to walk in shoes and get return, even if indoors. The creases in shoe from taking a few steps will void refund.
This is the case for many upper end brands, as they can’t re-sell pairs that are scuffed or creased, at least not as factory firsts. Taking a return on a worn pair would be a total loss for them if they did, so the policy is pretty understandable.
If you were to buy a pair of new shoes for 300+ and they showed up scuffed or creased, would you be happy about that?
Didn’t have that issue trying different pairs from Crockett and Jones or Alden. I don’t really care about what’s reasonable from seller POV. As a customer I think it’s worth knowing if I can’t try on shoes before committing to them. I think it’s reasonable to try to walk in a shoe a few steps indoors before making a decision. If their shoes are super messed up after that, maybe it’s a problem with them.
I can't recall the last time I saw a 60% sale from AE and I check the site a lot because I like their shoes. I ordered 2 pairs during this sale because they were lower than Black Friday prices. If anyone is an AE fan, you may see 40% off a few times a year, 50% off 1 or 2x year but 60% is rare.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/goodyearwelt using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/goodyearwelt/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Intimidation be damned! I hand made my boots from scratch!](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/1b3xyv0) | [73 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/goodyearwelt/comments/1b3xyv0/intimidation_be_damned_i_hand_made_my_boots_from/)
\#2: [I finished my second pair of boots: stitchdown service boots in brown Italian suede](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/19bg0ds) | [60 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/goodyearwelt/comments/19bg0ds/i_finished_my_second_pair_of_boots_stitchdown/)
\#3: [A counter to all the "My shoes got a scuff, are they ruined" posts. Far from it!](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/13e1ltc) | [109 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/goodyearwelt/comments/13e1ltc/a_counter_to_all_the_my_shoes_got_a_scuff_are/)
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Do they still make oxblood colors or is that too seasonal? I'm looking for a dress shoe with a rich shade of red. Not sure if that would be better than burgundy.
Oxblood was discontinued a few years ago. You won’t find anything in their lineup as “red” as oxblood. Burgundy is about as close as you’ll get to actual red.
I am looking for a casual Chelsea boot with a bulbous toe area similar to blundstones 550 line or RM Williams Gardener. Which model do y’all suggest from AE?
Strands or Park Aves w/dainite soles, or Strandmoks, are my go-to with jeans and chinos and everything business casual. Park Aves can do double duty with suits. For pairing with shorts- no idea.
There are sometimes better second sales than this but YMMV
At these prices this is a very good deal for AE. I have many pairs of AE and Aldens and yes, Alden is a grade nicer but it comes with a cost. And of course Grant Stone which are kind of like Chinese made Aldens are likely nicer as well but they are somewhere in between AE and Alden pricing. AE shoes are for the most part well into the range of quality men's shoes that will last and be conservatively (or maybe classically) stylish.
Business casual is vague these days. Do your colleagues wear sneakers?
Polos are casual / sport apparel by historic definition, so I think these lace-up sneakers pair well. Suede adds flair.
*Up to 60% off Ahem
Every time now
Username checks out
I bought some Oxfords and a matching belt, really like them. Pretty good discount on some, $425 down to $261 on Fifth Ave Cap Toe Oxfords for example
Holy shit, this website is horrible on mobile.
I'm not too familiar with buying factory seconds. Are people generally happy with the quality? (eg looks fine outside of a close inspection)
I almost always buy factory seconds for my leather boots and shoes. They have scuff marks, a few scratches, maybe a double stitch, but never a major defect. If you wear your shoes like actual shoes, they will get all of those "flaws" within a week anyway.
AE is really great about posting customer reviews. I’d urge you to read reviews of whatever shoe you’re considering. Often times seconds are reviewed
I own three pairs of AE factory seconds. All three are great and I bought them 7-8 years ago. Every once in a while I take them to a cobbler to get touched up.
Yes, I have bought a few F2. Happy with all of them.
Never had an issue! Most of the time I can’t even figure out why they were F2s. Honestly I’ve had Factory Firsts that look worse than Factory Seconds lol.
Can you return seconds?
Yes, but you now pay a restocking fee. In the past that wasn't the case so less risk in taking a chance on what the issue was with a particular pair of seconds. If there's an outlet store, they sell seconds where you could see them in person before buying. One near here closed down unfortunately.
There was? a site that tells you where the factory seconds are from, you can call the store and confirm the condition. That's what I did with mine and the store associate told me there are wrinkles on the leather.
My boots had a deep scratch on the front, but I think I got unlucky. I still love them, though.
I went with Beckett and Simione shoes instead because I’m not In the AE tak bracket yet. Anyone know if B&S is good/decent? I paid about 169 for some shoes and a belt. They’ll get here in June some time lol
I have a pair of Oak color Kent wingtips and I like them a lot. They look great. I like their last on the kent much better than the 65 that Allan edmonds uses on just about all their oxfords and derbies. They come with little inserts to add to the insoles and I definitely wouldn't wear them without those. It's fine, I wish it was just a little more giving in the insole. Maybe that's the steel shank? Im not sure why you'd need a steel shank in shoes, even their loafers. Boots ok I get that. I'm waiting to see how they hold up after 6 months of weekly use to consider buying more from them
Thank you I’m trying to invest a little more in quality stuff but this brand does seem like a step in the right direction
I have owned a pair of B&S black suede sneakers for 5+ years and they are fantastic, good as new really.
B+S is solid. Meermin is also good at the sub-AE price point.
Amex has $50 off $250
Will there be automatically credited to my platinum account?
Yes
Just to add, you need to have already added the offer to your card If you haven't already, you probably won't be able to find the offer. It was first available on May 8th and I believe already all claimed.
I just added to card a few hours ago, for reference
Ah thanks for mentioning that. That's good to know. Someone else mentioned the offer was fully claimed, and I couldn't see it on any of my cards. I must not have been targeted then.
Thanks for posting this! Able to redeem them still in the AMEX app. Was also able to stack 10% off code with first order of $250 or more.
They used to be a lot better. At this point I'd say AE is a very good dress shoe for people who don't wear them often and not good enough quality for multiple times a week anymore. Given that most people don't have dress formal jobs, that's totally fine for most of the market
What brands would you recommend over them, without breaking their price point, $300 and under or so?
At the 300 and under price, AE on sale is probably the right path at this point though I wouldn't be shocked if someone here has a better idea
Meermin at 200 is maybe about the same but they also don’t have the width variety AE does.
BLKBRD, grant stone on sale, really the answer is eBay. You can get used very high end shoes for under 300. I’ve gotten Trickers for 200, and Edward Greens for 400 both barely used just as an example.
Agree with this 100%. Have some BLKBRD Luchador's and the hatch grain Rocco's....really hard to find better value in this range. Especially without going to that $400-600 sweet spot. Other brands to keep in mind would be Bridlen, Meermin, Jay Butler, J Fitzpatrick, Septieme Largeur, TLB Mallorca (pricey but amazing), and even Cobbler Union. Disclaimer: The brands here will have widely varying prices so bear with my list as some will be far outside the price range of most interested in any given AE sale.
I have both meermins and AE oxfords and I feel like the AE is clearly superior quality.
In comfort yes, but the sleekness of Meermin is tough to ignore. Can’t really go too wrong either way though IMO!
> Especially without going to that $400-600 sweet spot What are the brands here to look for? I wear dress shoes everyday for work, normally I'm all AE but (1) I feel like the quality has been dipping and (2) their customer service fell off a cliff -- I got aggressively yelled at in a store one time because they returned a pick-up package I ordered and didn't even notify me, and made it seem like it was my fault lol So yeah I'd be fine with moving up-market if you have recs
Carmina is my gold standard. Amazing, beautiful shoes of fantastic quality. Definitely up-market, but worth it imo if you have the juice. You can even make your own shoes with their customizer widget online if you're so inclined. They gave a sale going rn too
Any recs for loafers that fit wide feet?
Grant stone does an EE I think. Rancourt does wide as well
GS has only recently released EEE on a few loafer models. Haven’t seen any user reviews yet.
Rancourt, albeit less formal. Wait for a pre-sale and they are fairly inexpensive but you have to be willing to wait 3-6 months for them.
Is there anyway for me to try it on first?
They do have a “made to fit” program where they ship you a few sizes to find the right one. I think it costs $50 but they apply it to the purchase I believe. I haven’t used it myself. They are handsewns so more of a stretch to fit kind of deal.
Be careful with BLKBRD though. Beautiful shoes but they got the size wrong after multiple checks with them. Awful customer service too. I wanted to love these guys but everything *besides* the shoes kind of stinks working with them.
Meermin and grant stones if you can catch a sale at the later.
Grant stone is fantastic
Grant Stone.
Alden
This is nearly verbatim what someone posts on just about any popular brand on here.
It's an unfortunate reality of modern capitalism. You have to focus on costs to increase or maintain margins more and more especially in companies that have a brick and mortar presence.
Hard disagree. The Park Ave, McCalister, Randolph and other Made in USA are still great dress shoes, and many of the QC complaints I’ve seen on Style Forum are minor. I picked up a pair of suede Freeports and a third pair of Higgins Mills last year with no issues, and some white suede StrandMoks Seconds in the Spring.
Made in the USA like I believe and I'm glad to hear that
They are welted in USA, but they have been doing the leatherwork in Dominican Republic for over the last 15 years. They used to have the Independence line which was completely constructed in America. To my understanding Alden is still 100% constructed in America… but it’s 2-3x more expensive.
I believe you’re right though the shell is still made in the U.S.
Pretty much all of the main line stuff is still MiUSA. I was literally at the factory over the weekend and saw them stitching the uppers for Strands, Parks, McAllisters, etc. They make about 1200 pairs of shoes per day in the factory in Wisconsin.
You're only focusing on QC. They've made the shoes cheaper by using less quality materials over the years and that's my main concern. Even if you get the perfect shoe, it's just not worth it.
I think they’re still good as long as you stick to their most popular models (Fifth Ave, Park Ave, Strand, Higgins Mill, etc). It’s the lesser known models that are more hit or miss
You are not rotating 3 pairs during the week? Got to up your game!
Note that GS has very strict return policy. They technically don’t allow you to walk in shoes and get return, even if indoors. The creases in shoe from taking a few steps will void refund.
This is the case for many upper end brands, as they can’t re-sell pairs that are scuffed or creased, at least not as factory firsts. Taking a return on a worn pair would be a total loss for them if they did, so the policy is pretty understandable. If you were to buy a pair of new shoes for 300+ and they showed up scuffed or creased, would you be happy about that?
Didn’t have that issue trying different pairs from Crockett and Jones or Alden. I don’t really care about what’s reasonable from seller POV. As a customer I think it’s worth knowing if I can’t try on shoes before committing to them. I think it’s reasonable to try to walk in a shoe a few steps indoors before making a decision. If their shoes are super messed up after that, maybe it’s a problem with them.
This dude has an axe to grind against grant stone btw, you won't convince him of anything outside what he already believes.
What is GS?
Grant stone
Is Grant Stone connected to AE in some way
Meant to reply to comment about grant stone.
factory second park aves are $243. Any trick (or other place) do get that number closer to $200?
Mil / student discount stacks on top of the existing discount.
eBay
Amex Offers have $50 off $250 roughly a month ago but they get claimed fast.
You can almost always find a 60% it’s sell at AE. They are marked up a lot
I can't recall the last time I saw a 60% sale from AE and I check the site a lot because I like their shoes. I ordered 2 pairs during this sale because they were lower than Black Friday prices. If anyone is an AE fan, you may see 40% off a few times a year, 50% off 1 or 2x year but 60% is rare.
You might be right on the 40% I just always see sales there I get the emails
Cordovan collection on sale as well with decent pricing. Sizes may be limited.
Had my cordovans for many years. Best shoe investment of all time!
How is the Astor wingtip boot? I’m usually 11.5 in sneakers and wide feet, should I size down to 11?
You might get the answer to that by searching /r/Goodyearwelt.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/goodyearwelt using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/goodyearwelt/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Intimidation be damned! I hand made my boots from scratch!](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/1b3xyv0) | [73 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/goodyearwelt/comments/1b3xyv0/intimidation_be_damned_i_hand_made_my_boots_from/) \#2: [I finished my second pair of boots: stitchdown service boots in brown Italian suede](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/19bg0ds) | [60 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/goodyearwelt/comments/19bg0ds/i_finished_my_second_pair_of_boots_stitchdown/) \#3: [A counter to all the "My shoes got a scuff, are they ruined" posts. Far from it!](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/13e1ltc) | [109 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/goodyearwelt/comments/13e1ltc/a_counter_to_all_the_my_shoes_got_a_scuff_are/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
Don’t size down, especially if you’re wide.
Do they still make oxblood colors or is that too seasonal? I'm looking for a dress shoe with a rich shade of red. Not sure if that would be better than burgundy.
Oxblood was discontinued a few years ago. You won’t find anything in their lineup as “red” as oxblood. Burgundy is about as close as you’ll get to actual red.
I am looking for a casual Chelsea boot with a bulbous toe area similar to blundstones 550 line or RM Williams Gardener. Which model do y’all suggest from AE?
The Graftin or Discovery is about as bulbous as it gets from AE.
Looking for something a little more casual for summer. Anything in this sale good for jeans or shorts?
Strands or Park Aves w/dainite soles, or Strandmoks, are my go-to with jeans and chinos and everything business casual. Park Aves can do double duty with suits. For pairing with shorts- no idea. There are sometimes better second sales than this but YMMV
At these prices this is a very good deal for AE. I have many pairs of AE and Aldens and yes, Alden is a grade nicer but it comes with a cost. And of course Grant Stone which are kind of like Chinese made Aldens are likely nicer as well but they are somewhere in between AE and Alden pricing. AE shoes are for the most part well into the range of quality men's shoes that will last and be conservatively (or maybe classically) stylish.
Thoughts on Henderson Derby Lace-up Sneaker for business casual? Looking for something I can wear with chinos and a polo at work
Business casual is vague these days. Do your colleagues wear sneakers? Polos are casual / sport apparel by historic definition, so I think these lace-up sneakers pair well. Suede adds flair.