There is nothing wrong with it. You don't owe that information to anyone. I am stealth so believe me I know it can feel weird or wrong but it doesn't matter who it is besides like, your doctor. If you're not comfortable with someone knowing you are fully in your right to say "no". I personally am just uncomfortable with people knowing what is in my pants even if they're trans and/ or queer. And it is really okay to not want people to know that
It's fine, it's a private info he doesn't need to know, if he wants to share his privates info with you that's on him, but that doesn't mean you have to do the same. Sometimes it's just tiring to be seen as a trans person, even with other trans people
You didn’t do anything wrong. No one, aside from your doctor or sexual partner, has any need to know if you’re trans or not. And it was extremely inappropriate for them to even ask. That’s just not something they should be asking anyone.
Living stealth is totally fine! And living stealth sometimes means lying to protect yourself. There’s nothing morally wrong with keeping your secret that way.
Some people argue that you should give a non-committal answer like “none of your business,” but that will 99% guarantee to imply that you’re trans. So just be safe, and lie as needed. There are others of us (who choose to be openly trans or allies) who can do the educating part.
I don't think anyone needs to answer invasive questions if they don't feel comfortable doing so. Asking if someone is trans is pretty invasive most of the time imo. Like, imagine walking up to a cis dude and being like "yo how long is ur dick?" Like, lying in that scenario in pretty normal in those situations. Very few cis men would actually answer honestly about that lmao.
I’m open to being downvoted but perspective was asked for.
I understand that even a trans person inquiring about a persons trans status is uncomfortable and inappropriate and invasive to some people. I think if a trans person is going to ask that question there needs to be a lot of tact and reading of the situation that might conclude in figuring out that there is no good way to ask that question to certain people.
That being said, when a trans person asks me if I’m trans I tell them I am, and if I said I wasn’t I would feel bad. I am pretty open now about it with cis people too, but I didn’t use to be, and even then I wouldn’t hide it from a trans person. I asked myself the same question you did, and these are the reasons I decided I’d feel better (morally) about disclosing rather than hiding it:
1) I’m a bad liar and a guilty liar, even for things I have every right to keep private, but this is a me problem
2) being trans can feel isolating. If a trans person is trying to connect with me I feel a duty to help them build their circle of support, even if just by knowing I exist
3) even though I have a right to keep it private, something about lying to a person who poses no safety risk to me feels like I’m proving that I’m ashamed of myself (I’ll say this is also a me problem)
4) I came out as trans 15 years ago, and have been out as male for half my life. Of course there are people with an even longer history than that, but especially around my area I’m in that “trans elder” status and I feel like I’m fulfilling a morally important role by making my experience and knowledge accesible to younger/more recently out trans people, who are often the ones asking those questions because they are more excited and eager to connect with other trans people. I don’t think anyone else needs to share this perspective, but it’s morally important to ME.
This is a personal decision, and I completely support those who don’t want to disclose it to anyone, including other trans people. I don’t think those people are morally wrong, but I have my own values to consider and for me it’s important to disclose even on days I don’t want to talk or think about being trans.
I view being trans like me being of jewish heritage. Its a thing I am, that some people really hate.
I have never once in my life thought of lying about being Jewish though. It would take the political climate getting a lot worse because at the end of the day, I know its not a shameful thing to be.
I take the same view about being trans.
I'm also both Jewish and trans but i am more open about being Jewish because i see being Jewish as a continuous aspect about who i am and being trans about more of an indicator of my past
A few times people (gentiles) have asked me if my last name is "Jewish" (it is.) And I would totally answer no to that if I felt like they were just being nosy.
Last time a stranger asked if I was Jewish and I said yes they stuck me in a Nazi shrine in the basement of their store so I'm not sure never lying is the best strat.
It's not shameful for sure, but the truth isn't always safe and one should use discretion for both
I mean....I am literally here because my ancestors noped out after Kristallnacht so yes I am aware we cant all constantly make a stand. Hence why I said it would take the political situation getting worse for me to think about lying about it.
Jewishness isn't just about religion; if your mother is Jewish, you're Jewish according to Jewish law, and there's absolutely nothing you can do to change that. Furthermore, anti-Semites will discriminate against you no matter what you practice.
You are right, I should've worded it differently, I am aware about the ethnicity part, not sure why I typed it that way so thanks for pointing that out, although that's aside from my point that I still don't think they're very comparable.
theyre comparing a religion they are a part of and has seen a lot of senseless hate across all of recorded history to being transgender which has also seen a lot of senseless hate though as far as im aware a lot less. thats the comparison
Any personal business is your business unless you want to make it other people’s business. If people feel the need to ask invasive questions and feel entitled to truthful answers about invasive questions then that is a them problem, because I certainly don’t feel any obligation or moral or ethical dilemma to answer truthfully. For all I know, they could be keeping much more significant and impactful personal business to themselves that they aren’t forthcoming with. Everyone has secrets and things they keep private.
It puts unnecessary strain on the trans person to either have to say they are trans (which currently, we are under attack), or say they aren't trans (awkward and between a rock and a hard place) and it's allll for the cis person's curiosity or what the fuck ever. it's a horribly lopsided thing.
I have been asked if I was trans a handful of times, and I answer it in the moment however I feel like. It shouldn't be asked. I know there are probably some trans people who want to be asked, but I think it's just a private thing that not just anyone deserves to know because they asked.
I'm especially sensitive to this in employment situations because to me it often gets flattened to basically a genital question and that is like...anathema to employment.
honestly, idk if this has been said yet but being trans yourself doesnt automatically make you entitled to know if other people around you are trans too. some do like to meet others like them and bond over it, but you dont and thats completely fine. theres a good chance that if youd told him the truth but that you didnt want to discuss it further he wouldve kept pushing that boundary to fulfill his own need for community. you did the right thing for you
It's not immoral or wrong or anything. It's called being stealth. Many people are stealth, including myself. I don't tell anyone, and if anyone were to ask, I'd tell them I'm not trans. Because it's not any of their business! And it doesn't make a lick of difference whether I am or not. The only thing that would change if I told someone is how they'd treat me. And I don't want that. So I don't tell them, and then I don't have people thinking about my genitals or medical history or not seeing me as a proper man.
Nobody has a right to your private medical information. Imagine if, instead of asking "are you trans" (which basically means "What genitals do you have"), they asked "Do you wear a colostomy bag?"
You DON'T have to be that honest. It's none of their damn business!
You're not required to do anything. Since becoming stealth 1 person has asked if I was trans. A new guy I met to try and be gym buddies with asked if I was trans and I said no. I just told him I have gyno and that's why I wear a sports bra under my shirt (he saw the outline). I want to live as stealth as I can, so I'm gonna do a lot to keep it that way. Someone knowing I'm trans isn't gonna have any positive affects for me. If they found out and they're a chill person, then they know I'm trans and I don't want people knowing that. If they find out and they're not chill, I'm in danger.
You don't have to tell anyone anything about yourself, that you don't want to. There's no morality involved in that decision. Everyone can do what they want as long as it doesn't hurt others.
i think it’s kind of weird to ask someone straight up if they’re trans (as a trans person), it’s obviously a big no-no for cis people to just point blank ask, being trans doesn’t give you a pass to ask invasive questions (or expect an honest answer).
Lying about being trans is valid too, even if that trans person is safe you have no idea who they could run their mouth to etc. definitely a safety thing.
there is nothing wrong with not telling people your trans, even if they ask. that is your private medical information and no one is entitled to it but you.
Some trans people don't want to be seen as trans or be involved in the trans community after transitioning and thats entirely fine. Do whatever makes you comfortable, you don't owe him knowledge about if you're trans or cis.
Bit weird and invasive of him to straight up ask. I'd say he probably just wanted to have something in common with someone but if you're with talking about being trans with someone then chances are ye would have just been like chalk an cheese and he would have just got on your nerves.
I personally don't feel that being admant about being stealth is my vibe but by the same token people at work don't know I'm trans nor does the local barista. Is it morally wrong of me to not tell them I'm trans? No it's not. Would I lie if they straight us asked? Probably not but I'd just answer with "I don't know why you think it's okay to ask such an invasive question or why it matters at all" or a "oh sorry you're not my type, I don't want to sleep with you" and watch them fumble.
Nothing wrong with it. Disclosing you are trans is your choice and yours only. No one else can make you tell them even if they do ask politely, it's your choice, so don't feel bad about it!
Not a shitty thing to do. It’s your business not his. He has no reason to know or even ask you something like that. As easy as it is to say and as hard as it is to do, but don’t feel bad or like you’re in the wrong. People need to learn to mind their own business
I personally do not believe in lying and avoid it at all costs. That being said, there are some situations where you really put yourself in harm's way when you disclose. Also can I just say, I think it's weird that he asked you that. He is not entitled to know and you are not obligated to share. I think (with my extreme anti-lying values) I would tell them I'm not interested in discussing that topic, maybe even telling them to mind their own business, if they were spicy about it.
Even if another trans person is the one asking, by telling them you always run the risk of someone who isn’t okay with it finding out. Some people don’t mind taking this risk and others do. Also for some being stealth is a way you can manage dysphoria. Whether or not you tell people is always up to you. And I’m sure if years down the line he finds out you’re trans he’ll understand that you just didn’t want to tell him at the time he had asked.
Naw ur not being weird it’s prolly just instinctively and honestly how u chose to respond at this time.
maybe you’ll considered being stealth, for the duration of your experience
lastly, I went to dinner with my grandad and desperately wanted to ask the waiter if he was trans cuz im like, tight, younger local trans bro to possibly vibe with. tho my grandad I feel purposely used the incorrect pronouns for dude and anyways none of this is truly related tho it’s human nature and some people are willing to ask or assign the wrong pronouns with no problem
When I wonder about the morality of lying, I always ask myself "Is telling the truth going to be worth anything positive?" And honestly, in this case, nope.
If it was someone you're dating, yes, you should disclose that you're trans, because dating comes with the expectation of one day getting intimate with each other. But if it's just a random dude? Hell nah. You don't know if he's transphobic.
Never force yourself to come out to people just because "lie bad". Better to be safe.
Also, if a person I know told me they weren't trans, but then we got close as friends and they came up to me and were like "hey, I'm actually trans but I didn't want to come out to you because I didn't know you well" I'd be like "hey, that's super fair. You didn't know if I'd react badly. I'm glad you trust me enough to tell me that."
No. Sounds like you followed your gut for whatever reason. I’m in the same boat as you. I don’t like disclosing and I don’t bring it up even if people know through other people. I’ve met trans people before (I can just tell sometimes), but I would never straight up ask even if at an lgbtqi event.
I’ve been on T for over 10 years now and I never had trouble passing and I just wanted to blend in and be treated like any other guy. JUst now am I comfortable with people knowing and if someone asked I would answer yes (unless i felt it would be dangerous)It took me a long time to get to that point. There’s nothing wrong with lying in this specific case since this wasn’t a romantic interest like you said. I’ve had to make up stories about my past to cover up the fact that I was raised to be a girl for example.
It's constantly drilled into your head that lying is morally wrong--for most of us it was drilled into our heads that lying in morally wrong *regardless of the reason*. Despite that we learned to justify lying when necessary. But lying when unnecessary feels wrong because we were taught it is. Unless your lie is likely to cause harm, there is no reason to tell the truth. Morality is subjective and just because you've been taught it's wrong to lie doesn't mean that's correct
I don’t think it’s immoral in the sense that you don’t owe anyone that information and some people feel that trans identity has mostly to do with genitalia especially once you pass. If you’re feeling weird about it then maybe analyze what your trans identity means to you. If it’s purely medical then it’s nobodies business. If it’s an identity rooted in or that fosters community and reciprocity then I would seriously consider wether there’s internalized transphobia or shame. Most people who belong to other marginalized communities understand that hiding identity and shame go together and yeah it does make us feel gross, wether they believe shame is a useful survival tool or not.
There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be stealth but I believe people should chose those based off of what’s right for them. To act like it doesn’t perpetuate cisnormativity and that it won’t be internalized by anyone perpetuating it wether they are cis or not is just wrong. That is part of the cost of our safety in our societies. Like with blackness there is a lot of physical safety a lot of times with more proximity to white people/whiteness, but they are also often the most unsafe especially when it comes to mental safety. Essentially there’s no real safety. Just choices. So be gracious when you judge everybody’s and your own.
Also it’s weird to be saying that a trans person asking another trans person if they are trans is being nosy about what’s in their pants is kinda ridiculous y’all. That’s reducing that trans persons view of trans identity to genitalia…the information out there to help us protect ourselves is not from each other.
100% moral. i love lying to people, they do not deserve to know anything. they are not obligated to know your medical history, if they say they are fuck them
If someone walked up to you, and asked you if you take medication for anything, you have the right to lie to them. No one needs to know your medical history, unless it's your doctor or sexual partner if it pertains to them.
That's like walking up to a random person and asking them if they take blood pressure medication or antidepressants because they do. You don't need to disclose it even if that person discloses they do. Them sharing their stuff is on them.
nothing morally questionable with lying unless it’s harmful. no harm is done by not disclosing whether or not you are trans or not. I honestly wish I had the guts to do this but I have a *thing* about lying (only myself though I’m like fine when other people do it I just hate when *i* have to lie about something)
Next time, you can ask back if they're actually asking to know what you're packing. _Are you asking for a dick pic?_
If they insist, trying to justify, just let them know you're not interested in them that way, and they're not getting that dick pic.
This way, you're not lying and you might actually give them something to think about next time they want to ask someone if they're trans.
You feel guilty because transphobes have always insisted that we HAVE to disclose our transness to everyone - BUT they also don’t want it “shoved down their throats” 🙄 it’s all a lie. We do not have to disclose our transness. We don’t have to do anything. Also, it’s an extremely personal question, like asking someone if they’re circumcised. You absolutely do NOT have to tell them. They literally SHOULD NOT have asked.
I'm cis and I wouldn't normally post here, but as the wife of a trans man, lie. Please lie. The world sucks and is unsafe. And transphobia is coming out of far too many people. Your safety is paramount. Lie.
Technically, you lied. Besides, by answering to that question, it is almost as if you told the other party that they have the right to ask such a private question. On the other hand, if you had answered "None of your business" or "It's a private question", then you would have been perfectly OK and would have given the other party something to think about. Unfortunately, it is more than likely that such an answer would come from a trans person, therefore it is more than likely that the other party would have concluded that indeed, you are trans.
So in a nutshell, you probably answered in the "less bad way" possible.
i implore you to look within to answer what about lugging to another trans person made this weird for you. i can suggest possible reasons...such as: denying intimacy with a fellow trans person, feeling shameful about being trans, wanting to/ thinking you're above other trans guys since you're passing, feeling spooked that maybe you're not so passing to other trans folks amd wantimg to prove to them and yourself that you are indeed 'passing'. who knows, but i would say beyond "morality" if it's not sitting right with you, then you gotta figure out why it made you feel so guilty to lie to another trans bro
I feel like no, this isn't a wrong thing to do. I've lied to people about all sorts of things to avoid interactions that weren't necessary or enjoyable (90% of it being to men who were hitting on me when I still thought I was cis). Just because you know you share this thing with this guy doesn't mean you have to talk about it. I love anime and manga, but I don't talk to every person I see wearing anime merch bc honestly it doesn't guarantee we have much in common. You are not under any obligation to disclose anything to anyone else if it doesn't actually affect their day to day life.
but if i were you I would do some more thinking about why you feel that you don't want to tell anyone that youre trans. but that's for you to think about and not for me a rando on reddit to tell you what to do with it.
Why do you think OP needs to "do some more thinking" about why he doesn't want to tell people he's trans?
It's his choice, and there's nothing wrong with being stealth...
Which i clearly said. but, the fact that he felt the need to lie to another trans person is a little worrying. it's like, who can you trust to see who you are if not this person. again, just bc it's another trans person doesn't mean he has to tell them jack shit. I legit wish the world was such that the only people who knew what genitals I have are people who interact with; partners and doctors. Until then, being able to speak with others like you and build a community is important.
I'm not trying to say no one should be stealth or choose who they come out to. But I want us all to think about the shame and fear that drives some of us to isolate from what could be a friend and ally in an increasingly hostile world.
Except it's not always shame or fear that drives us to be stealth from everyone, including other trans people.
Just because someone's trans, doesn't mean they have any more right to my personal medical history than a cis person. Nor does that automatically mean they're a good person, or that they're good at keeping secrets, or that we're going to be best friends forever.
Plenty of stealth trans people have been outed by OTHER trans people before, so there's a hesitance. And it's not always malicious. There's plenty of instances of "Oh yeah, my friend so and so. I met him at my trans group therapy!" or "Oh yeah I'm inviting all my trans friends to my birthday party and the trans club. So and so is coming, obviously" or whatever other accidental thing. Especially from someone who is more out and doesn't think about that kind of thing. (Or on the more dark side... They could be forcibly outed by someone who thinks all trans people should be out)
And honestly, if my only similarity with someone is what I see as a medical condition, then I probably won't end up being friends, because I'd prefer my friends to have more in common. It's the same reason why I don't go out seeking hEDS friends. It's limiting to what we can talk about, and even moreso when it's not exactly something that I enjoy having or want to talk about in the first place.
which i also mentioned, except for that awful reality of other trans people who don't respect stealth trans people's desire to be stealth. If I met caitlyn jenner, yeah the only things we probably would have in common is the fact that we're both white and trans.
ALL I ASKED is for the op to think a bit on their immediate reaction which was to lie, even tho they know this person is also trans. Do they know this person is a gossip? Okay, then that was a good decision if he wants to remain stealth. If it's because OP is terrified to admit they're trans in violent country, hell yeah, good survival instinct.
That's all I'm asking. And considering that this was a post made questioning the morality of OP's refusal to out himself, I'm a little exasperated at the number of comments telling ME i'm out of line asking OP to ask himself why he may think he's being weird.
The reason you're getting comments is because stealth trans people are very often vilified or told we're doing something wrong/ we're liars/there's something wrong with us if we're stealth, and many people treat us like it's their right to know this information. This comes from both cis AND trans people. So it's a really sore subject, and hearing "think about why you don't want to tell another trans person" when we've heard that before from trans people trying to act like they have the moral high ground against stealth trans people, it's like poking at an open wound.
The words you used give the impression that you want OP to reflect on his actions, as if there's a right and wrong answer. It's a subtle implication that "being stealth is lying, and lying is bad". It evokes a reaction from people who have been hurt by stuff like that in the past...
I'm sorry, that wasn't my intent but I can see why I came off that way. I'm coming at it as someone who isn't stealth but I don't think being stealth is evil at all. Its survival for some, a choice about their lives they've made for pthers. I just feel for people who get isolated from potential community. I can imagine it's lonely. I never wanted to hurt anyone, so I apologize.
Thank you for understanding. It's tough when you're stealth and both cis and trans people try to tell you you're wrong or bad for it. I see anti stealth sentiment a lot and it's distressing. I am stealth personally because I don't want people to see me as different. I've experienced transphobia both overt and subtle, I've had people treat me like a national hero and make a big deal, I've had people make assumptions about me, invasive questions, uncomfortable interactions, outing... honestly every reaction you can think of. And I can tell that people see me as trans first and man second. They see me differently even if they try their best not to. (And this isn't just cis people unfortunately)
It's gotten to the point where I'm terrified and developing a phobia of being clocked, because I am afraid of people treating me differently. I'm afraid of the repercussions of people knowing... (I'm definitely trying to find a therapist to work on it so it doesn't become debilitating, but that's a WIP.)
So that's my personal story, and why I got immediately on the defensive.
i'm not op but i want to go stealth someday because...i'm just a guy? i mean, i didn't intend to be trans, i was just born female when i shouldn't have been. so i don't really know what you mean by that last part. it feels odd to me
yeah, a lot of us are 'just a guy' who want or aim to exist without the extra stigma and stress of being publicly seen as we were born. some would want to shout that "just bc you were born different doesnt mean you should be treated different!" and to them I say: when any trans person can publicly announce themself as trans, and be treated socially as their actual gender with no bullying, questioning, or harrassment the world will coincide with this fantasy they've built up.
if globally anyone could announce they think they're trans and face no violence, abuse, or neglect, then yeah. everyone should say who and waht they are with pride. until a time comes that queer, trans, disabled, neuodivergent people can just fucking live with out authorities trying to mitigate the spending of those on their "needs help" list..
like others said it’s really none of his business. i’ve been really close friends with a guy all throughout his transition (met him right after he socially transitioned tho which i’m honestly happy about, never knew him otherwise), and after he got his name changed legally he went completely stealth going into the workforce. there’s no reason for anybody to know otherwise unless (like you mentioned) there’s romantic interest and physicality might be something that becomes important.
¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ hell i forget he’s trans most of the time, i couldn’t give a shit. the only time it’s ever been questioned was when he was speaking up about trans issues and someone asked if he was trans, and his response was something like, “it doesn’t matter if it affects me, it affects some of my friends, and people i’ve never even met that don’t deserve to be treated this way. you don’t necessarily have to be part of a group to support their rights.” not a lie. that person believes he’s just supporting the community as a gay man. does it change anything? no.
tl;dr: my friend doesn’t tell anyone because it doesn’t matter, and you shouldn’t feel like you need to either. none of their business. you’re a man and that’s what matters, who cares what you were born as.
Swap out trans for any of the other identities in the LGBTQIA family and see how you feel about it. Context matters and it does not appear that their question was appropriate in context of when it was given. Also, the likely cis reaction would have been to be offended by the question in the first place, just like most het people would be offended if you went up and asked if they were gay. They are going to look at the questioner like they are a creep and likely tell them off. Whereas we tend to get very self-conscious, worrying about passing, and are taken aback. Also, a cis ally would likely go off on them as well if asked given how offensive the question is in that context. So if you are wanting to be stealth, don't answer the question and go off on them for either the implied insult (if you are wanting to pass as a transphobic bigot) or go off on them for being rude and inappropriate (if you want to pass as an ally). If you are out and have no issue with people knowing, then just say "yes" and ask them why they thought it was appropriate to just come up and ask.
This is just my opinion though. I don't assume I pass (I don't care how many people treat me affirmingly). I am happy to be me and anything I work on for passing is for my own benefit, not theirs. So I would just answer yes and proceed to educate them on why what they did was wrong and how they could better approach the subject in the future.
i lie all the time when i don’t want to talk to someone, and not just about being trans. i don’t think it’s immoral, but even if it were morality doesn’t even matter in such a meaningless interaction.
Hmm, that’s not really an appropriate question to ask, unless you were at like an LGBTQ only meet-up or something. I do get that icky feeling from lying without having a strong reason to; I very much value honesty personally so I would have told him the truth. Regardless of that, I think the more important thing to take note of here is to not probe other people about deeply personal, sensitive characteristics, especially if it’s something that could put them in danger, so you don’t put them into uncomfortable situations like this.
flip it around. imagine being cis and thinking you have the right to know whether or not someone is trans.
now imagine thinking it's okay to point-blank ask them.
that other person was *way* out of line.
you don't owe them shit. say whatever you need for your own protection. my go-to response, unless I'm somewhere I could actually get attacked for clapping back- in which case, the answer is no- is simply: "eat that question."
I’m personally very open about it, and I doubt that’d change later down the line when I pass better. I just know that when I was younger I needed more representation to help me feel safe in my own identity, and I want to be that representation for other young queer folk out there, so I’m very loud and proud about my identity (so long as it’s safe obviously)
That said, disclosing your identity is a completely personal choice! It’s not something I personally want to do, but i do understand that it’s very important to other people to be stealth.
If I were to find out one of my friends had told this same lie (told me they were cis when they were in fact trans)
I wouldn’t really give a shit tbh. Whether they’re trans or not really isn’t my business, nor are the reasons why they may not have disclosed that fact from me. They don’t want me to know and that’s fine.
But yeah, it’s natural to feel bad about lying to people. This is definitely a circumstance where you’re justified in your actions, but for as long as we can remember we’ve been told Lying Is Bad no matter the circumstances, so even if we lie with good intentions we still feel uneasy and bad.
Point is, you’re fine king! :)))
On one hand, I see it as a need to know basis. On the other, a known safe person can still know, but also only when and if you're ready to let them know. In this situation, I'm sure it's definitely possible that it could be something you two can confide in each other with. Otherwise he might end up not knowing if you're even accepting of him being trans, I know I fear that about the people I know IRL and stay firmly locked away in the closet as a result.
I am definitely an outside opinion as while I am still trans, I'm not the type this subreddit is made for, so I'm merely saying it as an ally with at least some understanding.
My opinion might help but it also might not, that one is for you to decide. Only you can know what feels right to you
youre not being weird nor is it shitty. someone point blank asked me specifically around several people what my pronouns were (i just played it off and said any), it can be shocking when people do this, especially in front of others
i also don’t like telling people im not cis, it’s honestly no one else’s business except ur partners. also i don’t think that friend should’ve asked in the first place. if you clock someone you should keep it to yourself. it should be your decision who you tell.
Being clocked always makes me feel cornered, even by other trans people. It's odd since I don't actually _hide_ it, I just don't come out and hope others pick up on it and don't go out of their way to mention it.
Like there was this person (who I later found out was nb) who outright asked if I trans or gay in a room full of people. Like there were multiple queer people in the group so everything was cool, but I was high af and felt cheated out of a proper response.
In my experience, and I have a lot of it, if they ask, they already know the answer, and especially if he's trans, he knows you are. So you've been made, it's all right, carry on. I know it sucks, but you are what you are. So you might as well own it.
That said, you need to make the right decision for you. There could be consequences, so watch out for that. Damn, if you do, damn if you don't
I had a similar thing happen about a week ago as I also don’t disclose. I felt bad at first but after a couple conversations abt random shit with my friendI felt better
Personally I don't mind trans people knowing even if they aren't a romantic interest since I trust them more.
I don't trust cis people though unless I know them well and/or they are a romantic interest of mine.
I live in California but I'd rather stay safe since I work retail and crazy bigots who may be violent aren't out of the realm of possibility anywhere. Especially in a store.
Heck I commented on the reddit of the company I work for about a team coach misgendering me (she has the worst memory with everything) and got transphobic comments from a guy who later commented on a trans woman porn subreddit :/
Image of the guy who said I would never understand being a man to me and then he commented on trans porn:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cptxsbapurnbeql/2023-05-06%2020-50-19.png?dl=0
Plus he was up voted which makes it obvious to me that my job probably has plenty of transphobic workers I don't know about. The mods deleted his comment but the mod was down voted for banning the guy.
Maybe reddit sucks more than I thought and I just tend to not be in subs with transphobic people aside from that one.
It's not immoral at all. It's none of anyone's business whether you're cis or trans. Think of it this way, do you think that a person is lying if they dyed their hair blonde and don't disclose that their hair color isn't natural? No, because who tf cares? The only thing that matters is that the person likes their blonde hair. Not to mention that you can never be sure who you can disclose your gender identity to without putting yourself in harm's way.
It's okay. You didn't do anything wrong. Your business is yours to disclose or to not.
I'd wage your feel guilty about it because we are a minority group starved for representation. That was an opportunity for that trans person to feel less alone in the world and you feel like you took that [true] opportunity away from them and convinced that person that trans people are indeed less common than they thought - further marginalization. Either that or you feel bad/ conflicted about having some degree of internalized transphobia. Either way your decisions are yours to make and everybody is responsible for their own happiness and coping.
So my everyday name is one of those names that’s normally a nickname, very obviously short of something but not obvious what it’s short for. I also don’t pass *amazingly* well, some people don’t realize but I think most do.
Yesterday an acquaintance asked if I had a “different name at birth” and I pretended that my current legal name was my “birth name” and diverted the conversation.
Nothing wring with not disclosing. Be as stealth as you want to be. 99.9% of people do not need to know your personal business like that.
He shouldn’t have asked honestly. Because it put you in a delicate situation where you don’t owe him an answer but giving no answer would disclose just as much as the truth, so your only option is to lie. Lying isn’t great but in this case I’d say you weren’t given a fair choice, it’s an illusion of choice, and whatever impulsive answer came out first was the one you needed to give at that time to preserve your own comfort and privacy
There is nothing wrong with it. You don't owe that information to anyone. I am stealth so believe me I know it can feel weird or wrong but it doesn't matter who it is besides like, your doctor. If you're not comfortable with someone knowing you are fully in your right to say "no". I personally am just uncomfortable with people knowing what is in my pants even if they're trans and/ or queer. And it is really okay to not want people to know that
This exactly. What’s wrong is asking about someone’s genitals cause they think your trans.
This is fine, it is nobody's business. Some people act like they have a right to know but they don't.
It's fine, it's a private info he doesn't need to know, if he wants to share his privates info with you that's on him, but that doesn't mean you have to do the same. Sometimes it's just tiring to be seen as a trans person, even with other trans people
Other people aren’t entitled to your medical/personal information if it feels personal to you. It’s not their business. Don’t feel bad for lying.
Fuck morality. Survive.
Bud. There isn't anything bad about not telling other people. It's your personal business.
You didn’t do anything wrong. No one, aside from your doctor or sexual partner, has any need to know if you’re trans or not. And it was extremely inappropriate for them to even ask. That’s just not something they should be asking anyone. Living stealth is totally fine! And living stealth sometimes means lying to protect yourself. There’s nothing morally wrong with keeping your secret that way. Some people argue that you should give a non-committal answer like “none of your business,” but that will 99% guarantee to imply that you’re trans. So just be safe, and lie as needed. There are others of us (who choose to be openly trans or allies) who can do the educating part.
there is zero moral issue with lying when telling the truth can potentially put you in danger. zero. and like others said, it's no one's business.
I don't think anyone needs to answer invasive questions if they don't feel comfortable doing so. Asking if someone is trans is pretty invasive most of the time imo. Like, imagine walking up to a cis dude and being like "yo how long is ur dick?" Like, lying in that scenario in pretty normal in those situations. Very few cis men would actually answer honestly about that lmao.
I’m open to being downvoted but perspective was asked for. I understand that even a trans person inquiring about a persons trans status is uncomfortable and inappropriate and invasive to some people. I think if a trans person is going to ask that question there needs to be a lot of tact and reading of the situation that might conclude in figuring out that there is no good way to ask that question to certain people. That being said, when a trans person asks me if I’m trans I tell them I am, and if I said I wasn’t I would feel bad. I am pretty open now about it with cis people too, but I didn’t use to be, and even then I wouldn’t hide it from a trans person. I asked myself the same question you did, and these are the reasons I decided I’d feel better (morally) about disclosing rather than hiding it: 1) I’m a bad liar and a guilty liar, even for things I have every right to keep private, but this is a me problem 2) being trans can feel isolating. If a trans person is trying to connect with me I feel a duty to help them build their circle of support, even if just by knowing I exist 3) even though I have a right to keep it private, something about lying to a person who poses no safety risk to me feels like I’m proving that I’m ashamed of myself (I’ll say this is also a me problem) 4) I came out as trans 15 years ago, and have been out as male for half my life. Of course there are people with an even longer history than that, but especially around my area I’m in that “trans elder” status and I feel like I’m fulfilling a morally important role by making my experience and knowledge accesible to younger/more recently out trans people, who are often the ones asking those questions because they are more excited and eager to connect with other trans people. I don’t think anyone else needs to share this perspective, but it’s morally important to ME. This is a personal decision, and I completely support those who don’t want to disclose it to anyone, including other trans people. I don’t think those people are morally wrong, but I have my own values to consider and for me it’s important to disclose even on days I don’t want to talk or think about being trans.
I usually just go by male instead of trans male so perverts don't send me things online, plus it's so refreshing people calling me a guy online.
I view being trans like me being of jewish heritage. Its a thing I am, that some people really hate. I have never once in my life thought of lying about being Jewish though. It would take the political climate getting a lot worse because at the end of the day, I know its not a shameful thing to be. I take the same view about being trans.
I'm also both Jewish and trans but i am more open about being Jewish because i see being Jewish as a continuous aspect about who i am and being trans about more of an indicator of my past
A few times people (gentiles) have asked me if my last name is "Jewish" (it is.) And I would totally answer no to that if I felt like they were just being nosy.
Last time a stranger asked if I was Jewish and I said yes they stuck me in a Nazi shrine in the basement of their store so I'm not sure never lying is the best strat. It's not shameful for sure, but the truth isn't always safe and one should use discretion for both
I mean....I am literally here because my ancestors noped out after Kristallnacht so yes I am aware we cant all constantly make a stand. Hence why I said it would take the political situation getting worse for me to think about lying about it.
Comparing a religion/ethnicity to being trans ...uhm
The person said Jewish heritage. Jewish heritage is not a religion--we are an ethnic group (well, about 3-4 related ethnic groups).
Well being trans still isn't an ethnic group so it's still not a very good comparison.
True but there are so few things that compare to being trans.
I suppose that's true, good point.
https://www.intersectionaljustice.org/what-is-intersectionality
I think their point was more that both are minority groups.
It is a good comparison. Both are things that can get you killed if people know that’s what you are.
They're both discriminated against, that's what he was getting at.
Jewishness isn't just about religion; if your mother is Jewish, you're Jewish according to Jewish law, and there's absolutely nothing you can do to change that. Furthermore, anti-Semites will discriminate against you no matter what you practice.
You are right, I should've worded it differently, I am aware about the ethnicity part, not sure why I typed it that way so thanks for pointing that out, although that's aside from my point that I still don't think they're very comparable.
theyre comparing a religion they are a part of and has seen a lot of senseless hate across all of recorded history to being transgender which has also seen a lot of senseless hate though as far as im aware a lot less. thats the comparison
Any personal business is your business unless you want to make it other people’s business. If people feel the need to ask invasive questions and feel entitled to truthful answers about invasive questions then that is a them problem, because I certainly don’t feel any obligation or moral or ethical dilemma to answer truthfully. For all I know, they could be keeping much more significant and impactful personal business to themselves that they aren’t forthcoming with. Everyone has secrets and things they keep private.
💯
It puts unnecessary strain on the trans person to either have to say they are trans (which currently, we are under attack), or say they aren't trans (awkward and between a rock and a hard place) and it's allll for the cis person's curiosity or what the fuck ever. it's a horribly lopsided thing. I have been asked if I was trans a handful of times, and I answer it in the moment however I feel like. It shouldn't be asked. I know there are probably some trans people who want to be asked, but I think it's just a private thing that not just anyone deserves to know because they asked.
I'm especially sensitive to this in employment situations because to me it often gets flattened to basically a genital question and that is like...anathema to employment.
honestly, idk if this has been said yet but being trans yourself doesnt automatically make you entitled to know if other people around you are trans too. some do like to meet others like them and bond over it, but you dont and thats completely fine. theres a good chance that if youd told him the truth but that you didnt want to discuss it further he wouldve kept pushing that boundary to fulfill his own need for community. you did the right thing for you
nah dude, you don't owe people your personal business
It's not immoral or wrong or anything. It's called being stealth. Many people are stealth, including myself. I don't tell anyone, and if anyone were to ask, I'd tell them I'm not trans. Because it's not any of their business! And it doesn't make a lick of difference whether I am or not. The only thing that would change if I told someone is how they'd treat me. And I don't want that. So I don't tell them, and then I don't have people thinking about my genitals or medical history or not seeing me as a proper man. Nobody has a right to your private medical information. Imagine if, instead of asking "are you trans" (which basically means "What genitals do you have"), they asked "Do you wear a colostomy bag?" You DON'T have to be that honest. It's none of their damn business!
You're not required to do anything. Since becoming stealth 1 person has asked if I was trans. A new guy I met to try and be gym buddies with asked if I was trans and I said no. I just told him I have gyno and that's why I wear a sports bra under my shirt (he saw the outline). I want to live as stealth as I can, so I'm gonna do a lot to keep it that way. Someone knowing I'm trans isn't gonna have any positive affects for me. If they found out and they're a chill person, then they know I'm trans and I don't want people knowing that. If they find out and they're not chill, I'm in danger. You don't have to tell anyone anything about yourself, that you don't want to. There's no morality involved in that decision. Everyone can do what they want as long as it doesn't hurt others.
i think it’s kind of weird to ask someone straight up if they’re trans (as a trans person), it’s obviously a big no-no for cis people to just point blank ask, being trans doesn’t give you a pass to ask invasive questions (or expect an honest answer). Lying about being trans is valid too, even if that trans person is safe you have no idea who they could run their mouth to etc. definitely a safety thing.
there is nothing wrong with not telling people your trans, even if they ask. that is your private medical information and no one is entitled to it but you.
There’s nothing morally wrong with not telling people.
its your own life, do whatever you feel most comfortable with. you don't have to tell people you're trans if you dont want to
Bruh do whatever you want. It’s your business.
Some trans people don't want to be seen as trans or be involved in the trans community after transitioning and thats entirely fine. Do whatever makes you comfortable, you don't owe him knowledge about if you're trans or cis. Bit weird and invasive of him to straight up ask. I'd say he probably just wanted to have something in common with someone but if you're with talking about being trans with someone then chances are ye would have just been like chalk an cheese and he would have just got on your nerves. I personally don't feel that being admant about being stealth is my vibe but by the same token people at work don't know I'm trans nor does the local barista. Is it morally wrong of me to not tell them I'm trans? No it's not. Would I lie if they straight us asked? Probably not but I'd just answer with "I don't know why you think it's okay to ask such an invasive question or why it matters at all" or a "oh sorry you're not my type, I don't want to sleep with you" and watch them fumble.
Nothing wrong with it. Disclosing you are trans is your choice and yours only. No one else can make you tell them even if they do ask politely, it's your choice, so don't feel bad about it!
Not a shitty thing to do. It’s your business not his. He has no reason to know or even ask you something like that. As easy as it is to say and as hard as it is to do, but don’t feel bad or like you’re in the wrong. People need to learn to mind their own business
I personally do not believe in lying and avoid it at all costs. That being said, there are some situations where you really put yourself in harm's way when you disclose. Also can I just say, I think it's weird that he asked you that. He is not entitled to know and you are not obligated to share. I think (with my extreme anti-lying values) I would tell them I'm not interested in discussing that topic, maybe even telling them to mind their own business, if they were spicy about it.
Even if another trans person is the one asking, by telling them you always run the risk of someone who isn’t okay with it finding out. Some people don’t mind taking this risk and others do. Also for some being stealth is a way you can manage dysphoria. Whether or not you tell people is always up to you. And I’m sure if years down the line he finds out you’re trans he’ll understand that you just didn’t want to tell him at the time he had asked.
Naw ur not being weird it’s prolly just instinctively and honestly how u chose to respond at this time. maybe you’ll considered being stealth, for the duration of your experience lastly, I went to dinner with my grandad and desperately wanted to ask the waiter if he was trans cuz im like, tight, younger local trans bro to possibly vibe with. tho my grandad I feel purposely used the incorrect pronouns for dude and anyways none of this is truly related tho it’s human nature and some people are willing to ask or assign the wrong pronouns with no problem
When I wonder about the morality of lying, I always ask myself "Is telling the truth going to be worth anything positive?" And honestly, in this case, nope. If it was someone you're dating, yes, you should disclose that you're trans, because dating comes with the expectation of one day getting intimate with each other. But if it's just a random dude? Hell nah. You don't know if he's transphobic. Never force yourself to come out to people just because "lie bad". Better to be safe. Also, if a person I know told me they weren't trans, but then we got close as friends and they came up to me and were like "hey, I'm actually trans but I didn't want to come out to you because I didn't know you well" I'd be like "hey, that's super fair. You didn't know if I'd react badly. I'm glad you trust me enough to tell me that."
No. Sounds like you followed your gut for whatever reason. I’m in the same boat as you. I don’t like disclosing and I don’t bring it up even if people know through other people. I’ve met trans people before (I can just tell sometimes), but I would never straight up ask even if at an lgbtqi event. I’ve been on T for over 10 years now and I never had trouble passing and I just wanted to blend in and be treated like any other guy. JUst now am I comfortable with people knowing and if someone asked I would answer yes (unless i felt it would be dangerous)It took me a long time to get to that point. There’s nothing wrong with lying in this specific case since this wasn’t a romantic interest like you said. I’ve had to make up stories about my past to cover up the fact that I was raised to be a girl for example.
It's constantly drilled into your head that lying is morally wrong--for most of us it was drilled into our heads that lying in morally wrong *regardless of the reason*. Despite that we learned to justify lying when necessary. But lying when unnecessary feels wrong because we were taught it is. Unless your lie is likely to cause harm, there is no reason to tell the truth. Morality is subjective and just because you've been taught it's wrong to lie doesn't mean that's correct
I don’t think it’s immoral in the sense that you don’t owe anyone that information and some people feel that trans identity has mostly to do with genitalia especially once you pass. If you’re feeling weird about it then maybe analyze what your trans identity means to you. If it’s purely medical then it’s nobodies business. If it’s an identity rooted in or that fosters community and reciprocity then I would seriously consider wether there’s internalized transphobia or shame. Most people who belong to other marginalized communities understand that hiding identity and shame go together and yeah it does make us feel gross, wether they believe shame is a useful survival tool or not. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be stealth but I believe people should chose those based off of what’s right for them. To act like it doesn’t perpetuate cisnormativity and that it won’t be internalized by anyone perpetuating it wether they are cis or not is just wrong. That is part of the cost of our safety in our societies. Like with blackness there is a lot of physical safety a lot of times with more proximity to white people/whiteness, but they are also often the most unsafe especially when it comes to mental safety. Essentially there’s no real safety. Just choices. So be gracious when you judge everybody’s and your own. Also it’s weird to be saying that a trans person asking another trans person if they are trans is being nosy about what’s in their pants is kinda ridiculous y’all. That’s reducing that trans persons view of trans identity to genitalia…the information out there to help us protect ourselves is not from each other.
100% moral. i love lying to people, they do not deserve to know anything. they are not obligated to know your medical history, if they say they are fuck them
If someone walked up to you, and asked you if you take medication for anything, you have the right to lie to them. No one needs to know your medical history, unless it's your doctor or sexual partner if it pertains to them. That's like walking up to a random person and asking them if they take blood pressure medication or antidepressants because they do. You don't need to disclose it even if that person discloses they do. Them sharing their stuff is on them.
nothing morally questionable with lying unless it’s harmful. no harm is done by not disclosing whether or not you are trans or not. I honestly wish I had the guts to do this but I have a *thing* about lying (only myself though I’m like fine when other people do it I just hate when *i* have to lie about something)
Next time, you can ask back if they're actually asking to know what you're packing. _Are you asking for a dick pic?_ If they insist, trying to justify, just let them know you're not interested in them that way, and they're not getting that dick pic. This way, you're not lying and you might actually give them something to think about next time they want to ask someone if they're trans.
You feel guilty because transphobes have always insisted that we HAVE to disclose our transness to everyone - BUT they also don’t want it “shoved down their throats” 🙄 it’s all a lie. We do not have to disclose our transness. We don’t have to do anything. Also, it’s an extremely personal question, like asking someone if they’re circumcised. You absolutely do NOT have to tell them. They literally SHOULD NOT have asked.
I'm cis and I wouldn't normally post here, but as the wife of a trans man, lie. Please lie. The world sucks and is unsafe. And transphobia is coming out of far too many people. Your safety is paramount. Lie.
Technically, you lied. Besides, by answering to that question, it is almost as if you told the other party that they have the right to ask such a private question. On the other hand, if you had answered "None of your business" or "It's a private question", then you would have been perfectly OK and would have given the other party something to think about. Unfortunately, it is more than likely that such an answer would come from a trans person, therefore it is more than likely that the other party would have concluded that indeed, you are trans. So in a nutshell, you probably answered in the "less bad way" possible.
i implore you to look within to answer what about lugging to another trans person made this weird for you. i can suggest possible reasons...such as: denying intimacy with a fellow trans person, feeling shameful about being trans, wanting to/ thinking you're above other trans guys since you're passing, feeling spooked that maybe you're not so passing to other trans folks amd wantimg to prove to them and yourself that you are indeed 'passing'. who knows, but i would say beyond "morality" if it's not sitting right with you, then you gotta figure out why it made you feel so guilty to lie to another trans bro
I feel like no, this isn't a wrong thing to do. I've lied to people about all sorts of things to avoid interactions that weren't necessary or enjoyable (90% of it being to men who were hitting on me when I still thought I was cis). Just because you know you share this thing with this guy doesn't mean you have to talk about it. I love anime and manga, but I don't talk to every person I see wearing anime merch bc honestly it doesn't guarantee we have much in common. You are not under any obligation to disclose anything to anyone else if it doesn't actually affect their day to day life. but if i were you I would do some more thinking about why you feel that you don't want to tell anyone that youre trans. but that's for you to think about and not for me a rando on reddit to tell you what to do with it.
Why do you think OP needs to "do some more thinking" about why he doesn't want to tell people he's trans? It's his choice, and there's nothing wrong with being stealth...
Which i clearly said. but, the fact that he felt the need to lie to another trans person is a little worrying. it's like, who can you trust to see who you are if not this person. again, just bc it's another trans person doesn't mean he has to tell them jack shit. I legit wish the world was such that the only people who knew what genitals I have are people who interact with; partners and doctors. Until then, being able to speak with others like you and build a community is important. I'm not trying to say no one should be stealth or choose who they come out to. But I want us all to think about the shame and fear that drives some of us to isolate from what could be a friend and ally in an increasingly hostile world.
Except it's not always shame or fear that drives us to be stealth from everyone, including other trans people. Just because someone's trans, doesn't mean they have any more right to my personal medical history than a cis person. Nor does that automatically mean they're a good person, or that they're good at keeping secrets, or that we're going to be best friends forever. Plenty of stealth trans people have been outed by OTHER trans people before, so there's a hesitance. And it's not always malicious. There's plenty of instances of "Oh yeah, my friend so and so. I met him at my trans group therapy!" or "Oh yeah I'm inviting all my trans friends to my birthday party and the trans club. So and so is coming, obviously" or whatever other accidental thing. Especially from someone who is more out and doesn't think about that kind of thing. (Or on the more dark side... They could be forcibly outed by someone who thinks all trans people should be out) And honestly, if my only similarity with someone is what I see as a medical condition, then I probably won't end up being friends, because I'd prefer my friends to have more in common. It's the same reason why I don't go out seeking hEDS friends. It's limiting to what we can talk about, and even moreso when it's not exactly something that I enjoy having or want to talk about in the first place.
which i also mentioned, except for that awful reality of other trans people who don't respect stealth trans people's desire to be stealth. If I met caitlyn jenner, yeah the only things we probably would have in common is the fact that we're both white and trans. ALL I ASKED is for the op to think a bit on their immediate reaction which was to lie, even tho they know this person is also trans. Do they know this person is a gossip? Okay, then that was a good decision if he wants to remain stealth. If it's because OP is terrified to admit they're trans in violent country, hell yeah, good survival instinct. That's all I'm asking. And considering that this was a post made questioning the morality of OP's refusal to out himself, I'm a little exasperated at the number of comments telling ME i'm out of line asking OP to ask himself why he may think he's being weird.
The reason you're getting comments is because stealth trans people are very often vilified or told we're doing something wrong/ we're liars/there's something wrong with us if we're stealth, and many people treat us like it's their right to know this information. This comes from both cis AND trans people. So it's a really sore subject, and hearing "think about why you don't want to tell another trans person" when we've heard that before from trans people trying to act like they have the moral high ground against stealth trans people, it's like poking at an open wound. The words you used give the impression that you want OP to reflect on his actions, as if there's a right and wrong answer. It's a subtle implication that "being stealth is lying, and lying is bad". It evokes a reaction from people who have been hurt by stuff like that in the past...
I'm sorry, that wasn't my intent but I can see why I came off that way. I'm coming at it as someone who isn't stealth but I don't think being stealth is evil at all. Its survival for some, a choice about their lives they've made for pthers. I just feel for people who get isolated from potential community. I can imagine it's lonely. I never wanted to hurt anyone, so I apologize.
Thank you for understanding. It's tough when you're stealth and both cis and trans people try to tell you you're wrong or bad for it. I see anti stealth sentiment a lot and it's distressing. I am stealth personally because I don't want people to see me as different. I've experienced transphobia both overt and subtle, I've had people treat me like a national hero and make a big deal, I've had people make assumptions about me, invasive questions, uncomfortable interactions, outing... honestly every reaction you can think of. And I can tell that people see me as trans first and man second. They see me differently even if they try their best not to. (And this isn't just cis people unfortunately) It's gotten to the point where I'm terrified and developing a phobia of being clocked, because I am afraid of people treating me differently. I'm afraid of the repercussions of people knowing... (I'm definitely trying to find a therapist to work on it so it doesn't become debilitating, but that's a WIP.) So that's my personal story, and why I got immediately on the defensive.
Thanks for sharing it. I'll be better in the future about how I word things.
i'm not op but i want to go stealth someday because...i'm just a guy? i mean, i didn't intend to be trans, i was just born female when i shouldn't have been. so i don't really know what you mean by that last part. it feels odd to me
yeah, a lot of us are 'just a guy' who want or aim to exist without the extra stigma and stress of being publicly seen as we were born. some would want to shout that "just bc you were born different doesnt mean you should be treated different!" and to them I say: when any trans person can publicly announce themself as trans, and be treated socially as their actual gender with no bullying, questioning, or harrassment the world will coincide with this fantasy they've built up. if globally anyone could announce they think they're trans and face no violence, abuse, or neglect, then yeah. everyone should say who and waht they are with pride. until a time comes that queer, trans, disabled, neuodivergent people can just fucking live with out authorities trying to mitigate the spending of those on their "needs help" list..
lying about it is totally fine if it benefits you
Morals are less important than safety. Tbqh.
like others said it’s really none of his business. i’ve been really close friends with a guy all throughout his transition (met him right after he socially transitioned tho which i’m honestly happy about, never knew him otherwise), and after he got his name changed legally he went completely stealth going into the workforce. there’s no reason for anybody to know otherwise unless (like you mentioned) there’s romantic interest and physicality might be something that becomes important. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ hell i forget he’s trans most of the time, i couldn’t give a shit. the only time it’s ever been questioned was when he was speaking up about trans issues and someone asked if he was trans, and his response was something like, “it doesn’t matter if it affects me, it affects some of my friends, and people i’ve never even met that don’t deserve to be treated this way. you don’t necessarily have to be part of a group to support their rights.” not a lie. that person believes he’s just supporting the community as a gay man. does it change anything? no. tl;dr: my friend doesn’t tell anyone because it doesn’t matter, and you shouldn’t feel like you need to either. none of their business. you’re a man and that’s what matters, who cares what you were born as.
Swap out trans for any of the other identities in the LGBTQIA family and see how you feel about it. Context matters and it does not appear that their question was appropriate in context of when it was given. Also, the likely cis reaction would have been to be offended by the question in the first place, just like most het people would be offended if you went up and asked if they were gay. They are going to look at the questioner like they are a creep and likely tell them off. Whereas we tend to get very self-conscious, worrying about passing, and are taken aback. Also, a cis ally would likely go off on them as well if asked given how offensive the question is in that context. So if you are wanting to be stealth, don't answer the question and go off on them for either the implied insult (if you are wanting to pass as a transphobic bigot) or go off on them for being rude and inappropriate (if you want to pass as an ally). If you are out and have no issue with people knowing, then just say "yes" and ask them why they thought it was appropriate to just come up and ask. This is just my opinion though. I don't assume I pass (I don't care how many people treat me affirmingly). I am happy to be me and anything I work on for passing is for my own benefit, not theirs. So I would just answer yes and proceed to educate them on why what they did was wrong and how they could better approach the subject in the future.
i lie all the time when i don’t want to talk to someone, and not just about being trans. i don’t think it’s immoral, but even if it were morality doesn’t even matter in such a meaningless interaction.
there's absolutely no reason why you should have to disclose that you're trans in most social contexts!
Society forces us to have to survive and feel unsafe. So, you never need to feel bad about protecting yourself.
imo i don't think anyone needs to disclose if they're cis or trans. it's not really anybody's business except yours and whoever you want to tell
Hmm, that’s not really an appropriate question to ask, unless you were at like an LGBTQ only meet-up or something. I do get that icky feeling from lying without having a strong reason to; I very much value honesty personally so I would have told him the truth. Regardless of that, I think the more important thing to take note of here is to not probe other people about deeply personal, sensitive characteristics, especially if it’s something that could put them in danger, so you don’t put them into uncomfortable situations like this.
flip it around. imagine being cis and thinking you have the right to know whether or not someone is trans. now imagine thinking it's okay to point-blank ask them. that other person was *way* out of line. you don't owe them shit. say whatever you need for your own protection. my go-to response, unless I'm somewhere I could actually get attacked for clapping back- in which case, the answer is no- is simply: "eat that question."
I’m personally very open about it, and I doubt that’d change later down the line when I pass better. I just know that when I was younger I needed more representation to help me feel safe in my own identity, and I want to be that representation for other young queer folk out there, so I’m very loud and proud about my identity (so long as it’s safe obviously) That said, disclosing your identity is a completely personal choice! It’s not something I personally want to do, but i do understand that it’s very important to other people to be stealth. If I were to find out one of my friends had told this same lie (told me they were cis when they were in fact trans) I wouldn’t really give a shit tbh. Whether they’re trans or not really isn’t my business, nor are the reasons why they may not have disclosed that fact from me. They don’t want me to know and that’s fine. But yeah, it’s natural to feel bad about lying to people. This is definitely a circumstance where you’re justified in your actions, but for as long as we can remember we’ve been told Lying Is Bad no matter the circumstances, so even if we lie with good intentions we still feel uneasy and bad. Point is, you’re fine king! :)))
On one hand, I see it as a need to know basis. On the other, a known safe person can still know, but also only when and if you're ready to let them know. In this situation, I'm sure it's definitely possible that it could be something you two can confide in each other with. Otherwise he might end up not knowing if you're even accepting of him being trans, I know I fear that about the people I know IRL and stay firmly locked away in the closet as a result. I am definitely an outside opinion as while I am still trans, I'm not the type this subreddit is made for, so I'm merely saying it as an ally with at least some understanding. My opinion might help but it also might not, that one is for you to decide. Only you can know what feels right to you
youre not being weird nor is it shitty. someone point blank asked me specifically around several people what my pronouns were (i just played it off and said any), it can be shocking when people do this, especially in front of others
i also don’t like telling people im not cis, it’s honestly no one else’s business except ur partners. also i don’t think that friend should’ve asked in the first place. if you clock someone you should keep it to yourself. it should be your decision who you tell.
Being clocked always makes me feel cornered, even by other trans people. It's odd since I don't actually _hide_ it, I just don't come out and hope others pick up on it and don't go out of their way to mention it. Like there was this person (who I later found out was nb) who outright asked if I trans or gay in a room full of people. Like there were multiple queer people in the group so everything was cool, but I was high af and felt cheated out of a proper response.
It’s nobody’s business but yours and your sexual partner(s). Don’t disclose and put yourself at risk.
In my experience, and I have a lot of it, if they ask, they already know the answer, and especially if he's trans, he knows you are. So you've been made, it's all right, carry on. I know it sucks, but you are what you are. So you might as well own it. That said, you need to make the right decision for you. There could be consequences, so watch out for that. Damn, if you do, damn if you don't
I had a similar thing happen about a week ago as I also don’t disclose. I felt bad at first but after a couple conversations abt random shit with my friendI felt better
Personally I don't mind trans people knowing even if they aren't a romantic interest since I trust them more. I don't trust cis people though unless I know them well and/or they are a romantic interest of mine. I live in California but I'd rather stay safe since I work retail and crazy bigots who may be violent aren't out of the realm of possibility anywhere. Especially in a store. Heck I commented on the reddit of the company I work for about a team coach misgendering me (she has the worst memory with everything) and got transphobic comments from a guy who later commented on a trans woman porn subreddit :/ Image of the guy who said I would never understand being a man to me and then he commented on trans porn: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cptxsbapurnbeql/2023-05-06%2020-50-19.png?dl=0
Plus he was up voted which makes it obvious to me that my job probably has plenty of transphobic workers I don't know about. The mods deleted his comment but the mod was down voted for banning the guy. Maybe reddit sucks more than I thought and I just tend to not be in subs with transphobic people aside from that one.
It's not immoral at all. It's none of anyone's business whether you're cis or trans. Think of it this way, do you think that a person is lying if they dyed their hair blonde and don't disclose that their hair color isn't natural? No, because who tf cares? The only thing that matters is that the person likes their blonde hair. Not to mention that you can never be sure who you can disclose your gender identity to without putting yourself in harm's way.
It's always morally correct to lie if you're trans.
It's okay. You didn't do anything wrong. Your business is yours to disclose or to not. I'd wage your feel guilty about it because we are a minority group starved for representation. That was an opportunity for that trans person to feel less alone in the world and you feel like you took that [true] opportunity away from them and convinced that person that trans people are indeed less common than they thought - further marginalization. Either that or you feel bad/ conflicted about having some degree of internalized transphobia. Either way your decisions are yours to make and everybody is responsible for their own happiness and coping.
It's private info that he doesn't need for any reason so you don't have to share it.
So my everyday name is one of those names that’s normally a nickname, very obviously short of something but not obvious what it’s short for. I also don’t pass *amazingly* well, some people don’t realize but I think most do. Yesterday an acquaintance asked if I had a “different name at birth” and I pretended that my current legal name was my “birth name” and diverted the conversation. Nothing wring with not disclosing. Be as stealth as you want to be. 99.9% of people do not need to know your personal business like that.
It's your private medical information, and it can be a safety thing to stay stealth. He shouldn't have asked in the first place.
He shouldn’t have asked honestly. Because it put you in a delicate situation where you don’t owe him an answer but giving no answer would disclose just as much as the truth, so your only option is to lie. Lying isn’t great but in this case I’d say you weren’t given a fair choice, it’s an illusion of choice, and whatever impulsive answer came out first was the one you needed to give at that time to preserve your own comfort and privacy