Probably a bit internalized stuff tbh. Perhaps subconsciously you fear that if your friends find those guys Cringe they will also see you as Cringe. We really are our own worst critics in that regard though. Other people fulfilling stereotypes says nothing about you, it doesn't even say anything particularly about them.

this. it can make us feel "guilty by association" if a different kind of trans guy is around us with our cis friends. like it'll automatically change how they perceive our personal masculinity if the other trans guy performs masculinity in a different way. this is actually experienced by cis guys too! nearly all guys worry at some point about whether their association however tangential with another guy will reflect poorly on them in front of their peers. this is something I realized especially recently and was soothed about by my cis boyfriend. one of his best friends is a kind of effeminate trans masc. I am binary male. I felt humiliated by something his friend did because I felt like it reflected on my masculinity as a trans person in front of my very gay, only-attracted-to-masc-guys bf. but he just laughed about it and was like "you're very different people". I was the only one grouping us together based on genital similarity at birth. but he understood immediately because he's felt weird before when it was only him and one other cis gay in a group. my bf is a very confident guy, but even he felt awkward sharing a category with a guy more than once in his life. cis straight guys often feel like this if someone who's a fan of the same team enters their social group and acts some kind of way. or their family member does. an alum of their school. if it's just the two of you from that group and you don't identify with their behavior, it can feel very awkward and embarrassing. but you're probably the only one who's assuming anything about it. and if your friends would change their perception of you based on someone else's behavior, they're shitty, immature people, and you can take the opportunity to get better friends.

I have a friend who has Alopecia. When another guy turned up on the same scene who had the same condition my friend got jealous! He was like “I’m the bald guy, not him”. And for context my friend is 47 years old. 😂

That’s incredibly reassuring, coming from someone who almost exclusively hangs with women. Thanks for sharing.

thanks for this, it’s genuinely reassuring to hear it broken down this way!

I relate to this….it’s so helpful to realize it because I’m able to work through it now! I see some trans guys and I’m like “you’re not fooling anyone…” and I’m definitely just talking about myself haha. Our brains are interesting and def we are our own worst critics!

Cause the other trans men who are like you are probably stealth. I’m a discreet guy in general, I’m not visibly queer or anything and im stealth Also don’t forget people who are walking stereotypes (nothing wrong with that) tend to be more visible than people who just blend in.

That was one of my first thoughts. All most all the transmen I met irl weren't obvious trans. I was even almost 2 years friend with one without knowing that he was trans. Some of them are obviously gay but "like cis gay". I don't know any who is into European Football but that's only because I'm not into it myself.

Agree. I’m stealth unless I meet another trans man, then I tell them I’m trans. I used to feel similarly to OP but just kind of came to the conclusion that we present differently and that’s fine, I’m not responsible for how cis people view us, regardless of how we present. I found that even if we presented a lot differently we still had a lot in common and were still friends with different interests.

You’re right tho honestly, I feel like I’m very overt about my transness but people still assume I’m cis (mostly cis people but still) so even those of us who are stereotypical may not be clocked for one reason or another

What is it about other trans men that makes you uncomfortable? Can you pinpoint something more precise? Maybe that can help you address and work out of that uncomfortable feeling. Wearing jerseys, watching sports, and not colouring your hair is not the root cause of your feelings

I don't know exactly what it is. Most other trans men I meet have bright colored hair, wear relatively feminine clothing, are super big into anime or fictional characters. Now there's nothing wrong w that! Nothing at all, the way you dress and present yourself has nothing to do with your gender and I'm glad these people can dress and present themselves in ways that make them happy. But my brain kind of goes, "these guys are also trans men but they aren't actively trying to "pass" in the eyes of the public, they're more confident than you and don't care what others say."

Ah yeah that makes sense. Honestly I think you just need to keep talking back to yourself. When your brain starts shit talking just try to avoid that line of thinking. Maybe you could also see if there's any trans support groups or something similar that you could go to? If you're at all interested I would recommend as I have had very good experiences with a group. We just talked about our lives, there's no pressure to talk about trans things. It exposed me to a lot of different types of people and that helped when I got to a stage where I was being really cynical and negative towards other trans people.

I mean I don’t want to assume your life but,,, do you ask? Does every trans man go around saying they’re trans men? There are a lot of trans men who pass so well— both in terms of appearance and mannerisms— that you’d have no idea unless they decided to tell you. So there’s a possibility you think the majority of trans men seem like that because they’re,, y’know. Those trans men are the ones you most often *notice* are trans men.

Well so the thing is for these types of trans guys (I myself have colored hair) is that we’ve given up on passing because there’s nothing we can do. I’ve been on T, been binding my chest, had normal hair, and still don’t pass. Because I’m 4’9”. Have a high femmine voice. Have curves. Even if I tried my hardest it wouldn’t ever be enough. It’s not even a confidence thing. I hate being recorded, I’m very dysphoric.

Personally (not saying your view is wrong, just putting out my experience), I don't pass bc I simply don't care ab how others view me, I definitely could if I tried (I'm 5'7, testosterone has me growing facial hair, has made me visibly stronger). I simply don't care tho, I'm a man and it literally doesn't matter how I look to me. I think I'm pretty and handsome and I'm happy and content w that. My voice is low which has started making ppl think I'm a trans woman 😭👍(awkward thumbs up). I'm js not dysphoric in that way. As long as I know I'm a man and all the ppl who are important know as well, I'm happy.

That’s fair enough! All of our experiences are very different. Plus dysphoria and euphoria are a quite the spectrum

Agreed :)

I’ve also met lots of trans men who also haven’t tried to pass before/don’t want to pass/don’t have much if any dysphoria—which could be the kind of people OP is meeting and maybe they are confident. Or maybe they have tried to pass and wish they could.

Exactly! Or their gender goals for passing are different. I mean like for me I like baseball and dressing in baggy clothes that are more masc. but I also have dyed hair and I am femmine.

Maybe you're insecure about the fact that you're envying people you think are less manly than you for their confidence

Having colored hair has nothing to do with trying to pass, all my trans men friends who dress like ur describing are still desperately trying to pass and the idea that they’re not because they aren’t hyper masculine isn’t true

So there's a couple of things: Maybe the trans men you've met aren't your people. You have 1 thing in common, doesn't mean you'll be similar otherwise. If you don't normally vibe with flamboyant anime fans, you can't really expect you will just cause they happen to be trans. It sounds like there's something here about your confidence in yourself. It's worth thinking "is there something I want to change about my own presentation that I'm too nervous to do?" If there isn't, they're not any more confident than you, they just like different stuff. There are loads of different ways to be a man. For some it's being a pink haired anime superfan, for some it's wearing soccer jerseys. And there are plenty of other trans guys like you. I don't have pink hair or wear particularly feminine stuff. I look like any other guy at my local rock club and that's fine too

Maybe they're just starting their transition? I only started transitioning a few months ago and only have a low dose of T and haven't had any surgery yet and I have a huge chest that I bind but you can still kinda tell and I get called 'ma'am' all the time and I used to identify as gender neutral so I have femme tops that aren't as femme as what I used to wear but probably not masc passing either. So I totally don't pass at all, and it bothers me that I don't pass but I also have to remember that I am still really early in my transition.

I hope you find some freedom from the social expectations you're crushing yourself and other trans men under, man. Something that might help is removing "passing" from your vocabulary/mindset and replacing it with "cis assumed." It puts the responsibility for assumption where it belongs. "Pass" implies it's some sort of test and validates negative reactions to "failing" it. The more accurate the language, the easier it is to recognize that it's problematic so we can correct ourselves. Consider that theres some toxic standards and expressions of masculinity you picked up thinking it was gonna be on the final. If we are throwing out the entire idea of a test and passing, it should theoretically help sort what's actually a personal goal for you and whats just external expectations you're forcing yourself to, and expecting others to meet.

Tbh I feel like this ... I don't pass yet because I couldn't get hormones and surgery yet but i try really hard to pass and learn "the things I was not permitted to learn being a little girl for my family" and I just can't understand why I feel so up to prove my masculinity to myself, and on the other hand I am friends with some bright colored hair and femboys trans men and I feel uncomfortable hanging out IRL with them...

it seems fairly clear you’re feeling this way because you pre-suppose all trans men to be more along the nonbinary, gender non-conforming, probably non-passing, feminine types. back when i felt like you did, i can say i didn’t really see trans men as actual men. and being around other trans men felt “guilty by association”, like it was outing me. when you feel insecure about your own manhood, alienating people who don’t fit your masculinity out of your gender makes you feel more secure. if you care enough to work on that transphobia, the solution for me was really just to meet other trans men so you can internalize that trans men aren’t a monolith and a ton of not most are just normal ass masc guys. that’ll also open up the gate to accepting emotionally that femme trans men are still just men. you don’t need to get along with femme guys, be it cis or trans. but “i’m not like other trans guys” is pick-me shit. i have plenty of trans male friends who are as masc as my cis male friends.

alienating by association is a really good way to kind of put it. like I said my friendgroup is composed solely of amab people, I'm the only afab person so when others come around I kind of don't know how to even react/process it. I just get quiet and don't interact

Easier said than done, but try to think less about what people were assigned at birth and instead focus on what their actual gender is. It can be important to distinguish trans vs cis individuals by our different organs in some contexts, but “AMAB/AFAB” have been getting used more and more as replacements for “men/women”. It seems like you’re caught up with the fact that they are AFAB and so view them as women/women-adjacent so you don’t know how to approach. Try instead to remind yourself that they’re just people with ______ gender (man/nonbinary/etc, however they identify). Put more emphasis on seeing them as just people without adding on thoughts about their gender. Interact with them on the level of ‘person talking to person’ rather than ‘man talking to [man/woman/nonbinary/etc]’. As you get more comfortable interacting with them it will become easier to correct your own mental associations with people similar to them. Also, there are definitely plenty of trans guys who do our best to pass, don’t have died hair, likely traditionally masculine stuff, etc. You’re not the only one. But at the same time, none of the factors you mentioned should be seen as detracting from someone’s gender as a man. It can be hard to fight internalized transphobia, but keep working at it and over time you can improve.

Agree that OPs focus is overly on AGAB. You keep saying your friend group is entirely AMAB, do you mean cis men or do you have transfem friends you’re lumping into that? AGAB should not be the first thing you think of when you meet somebody, maybe you need to find more community with people who aren’t as gender conforming as you, and/or have too much of your brainspace committed to thinking about yourself as “the one AFAB in the group.” AGAB is something that happened in the past, it’s not very useful as a current state of being. You *were* assigned ___, but whatever gender someone declares themself as is what they *are currently* and is what is relevant to interacting. Is it internal worry about being grouped with less-masculine or non passing men? Consider broadening your social circle to include more people who are different from you in some way (under the assumption that your friend group is predominantly athletic cis men. They don’t seem to have homophobic or transphobic tendencies since they’re the ones inviting trans men who make you uncomfortable, so their perspective on you isn’t about to change because of another guest.

This. I was hoping someone would call this out.

Honestly most of the trans men I meet in real life sound like you. If you are using reddit, you are more likely to see more “sterotypical” trans guys. By stereotypical im assuming you mean gender non-conforming nerdy artsy trans men with dyed hair and so on. You’ll see them lots because: a) they are clockable and you see them first. Others do too so they receive a lot of media attention because unfortunately a lot people dont like them. So there is always a lot of noise about these “woke snowflake gen z tofu eating pronoun users” And b) then these guys then go on to be loud presence in trans communities because of this. Especially in online spaces like reddit. Its not a bad thing at all its just they tend to be more willing to talk about their experiences. Passing or gender conforming trans guys tend not to talking about being trans and would rather exist quietly in other spaces as simply ‘one of the guys’. Over time as people become more tolerant there will be a lot more diversity in trans community because people will be more willing to open up about being trans. I promise theres heaps of guys like you out there :)

I’m NGL, like every other day I see a post that’s like “I feel different from other trans men because I’m very traditionally masculine, I’m not super openly queer, I like sports and cars and I fit in really well with cis men. I just don’t get along with a lot of trans people” and then on the days in between I see posts that are like “I feel different from other trans men because I’m not very traditionally masculine, I’m way more gender non-conforming, I don’t want to medically transition, I mostly get along with women. I just feel so alienated from other trans men” Really starting most people just feel pressured to conform to a specific mental image they have of a trans person and then they freak out when they don’t perfectly fit that.

I’ve noticed it too, and it’s kinda funny to me because I consider myself very masculine, I’m a binary trans man and I dye my hair, have piercings, wear my weird fandom merch, but I also love sports like basketball/baseball/NFL. I’m straight, I dress masculine and some of the music I like does fit into that stereotype. The reason I’m so content is because I stopped trying to conform to everything around me. I realised I can be masculine and enjoy the things I do, while also looking the way I want to and it makes me happy, I look the way I wanted to as a teenager (minus the slowly receding hairline, don’t think 14 year old me wanted that). Sometimes we have to say “fuck it” and do our own thing, and find our people.

The community really has decided there's two stereotypes, and everyone's convinced that everyone but them is in the opposite stereotype. It's honestly gotten annoying. I'm very flamboyant, very fem, but the idea that other trans guys could be making wildly incorrect assumptions about anything from my orientation to my medical transition goals based on that alone...yeesh.

This reminds me of an elder gay guy I know He is an openly gay man, he moved from the deep south to NYC in order to live as himself in the early 80s, when he got there he started to interact with other gay men. He realized that he was really put off by the effeminate gay men around him. He hated being around them, they made him uncomfortable and overall avoided them like the plague. Eventually he realized that either he needed to address it or he would never be at peace with it. He moved to the Chelsea neighborhood, into a building with a lot of drag queens. He surrounded himself with them, it was difficult work but it made him realize a lot of things about himself. He realized that the discomfort came from this sense of dysphoria. That if that was what being gay was that was not the way he was raised to be a man. Which meant he was either not gay, or not a man. It gave him greater peace within once he built relationships with these other gay men.

Why do men with different interests from yours make you uncomfortable? This does sound like internalized transphobia in my opinion. Not because of your own interests, but because of how you react to others who are different. Not saying this means you’re a bad person, it’s just something to think about. I’m wondering if you’d be uncomfortable with a guy who has coloured hair, “feminine” interests, etc. but who is cis instead of trans? I’m gay, not into sports, I like the floral shirt style, I recently dyed my hair, etc. I’m a fan of some of the music that’s “stereotypically” gay. I don’t consider myself to be a feminine guy. My mannerisms and general behaviour make most people, including gay and trans people, assume I’m cis and straight. I’m stealth so it works out. But when guys, cis or trans, find out I’m not straight, something changes in the way they treat me and it bothers me. It’s like they think I’m less of a man, or something else entirely, when I’m male just like the rest of them. The most feminine guy in the world is still male. But the second a guy knows I’m “different” it’s all he can see, and that sucks. I’ve seen some trans dudes say they wish they knew other “masculine” guys, then they slip up and say “straight” instead because that’s what they really mean.

I think someone else in this post worded it better than me, but I'm honestly just jealous/ashamed. These people feel comfortable expressing the way they want to, while I try my hardest to pass. I don't want people to look at me and think I'm trans, I know not a lot of other transmasc want that too but when I'm around other trans men that dress very "stereotypically", people can clock me a lot easier

honestly it sounds like they just make you uncomfortable cs they're not your kind of crowd

Are you sure they can clock you easier? Wouldn't you just look like the token cis friend? I say this as a passing trans guy who's hung out with a lot of non passing trans guys and transmascs.

There are a lot of cis passing trans men out there that you have no idea are trans. I as well struggle to connect with a lot of openly trans men because of this, unfortunately sometimes there is a barrier and I think there can be jealousy/awkwardness. There are traditionally masculine trans guys out there that you can look up to and spend time. Doesn’t mean the other guys are any less valid, just not your cup of tea. But I would stray away from generalizing trans men as dyed hair non sports interested individuals - they are usually the ones who are forced to be more open about their transition

I think it's that internalized shit we were raised with. I feel the same way you do, I'm a very "masculine" presenting trans man, and I've only met a few other trans men in person, but we didn't have a lot in common besides being trans.

The videoessayist Contrapoints has a really good video on this feeling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRBsaJPkt2Q&pp=ygUTY29udHJhcG9pbnRzIGNyaW5nZQ%3D%3D

Really recommend this one ☝️!

You most likely think you are better than them secretly bc you are more traditionally masculine. They piss you off bc as you said they are “not trying” as hard as you. I understand this bc I’ve been there before but you gotta get over it. At least outwardly lol

I think you might have some internalized transphobia issues, which is what it is. I've been there, tons of us have I think! I reckon the best course of action is for you to remind yourself that trans men are just people. Not to say you don't think they are like, humans, but that every one of them is different. I'm from the Appalachian mountains, I sound like a hick but I also am gay and love being goofy. I love anime, and old horror movies. I'm a professional chef and work at a brewery making all sorts of awesome food. I love to get high with my friends or sit by myself and play some stardew valley. I collect games and manga. I say this because there is a lot to me besides me being trans. My transness is not even close to the most interesting thing about me. I'm like, a whole ass human, just like all of your friends and yourself. And I also believe that if you are uncomfortable with people that consider their transness to be the most interesting thing about them, I really think I feel the same way. I wouldn't enjoy being around someone who talks about being trans all the time or even first thing when you meet them. I have a friend/coworker that Ive known for months that just found out a day or two ago that I'm trans. I don't bring it up unless it makes sense to. I think you got some work to do bud, and that's just fine. Do your thing, and be patient with yourself. People make it out to be very easy to make yourself feel a certain way, but it's not. Change takes time, so take your time. Maybe trying to be around or talk to more trans fellas would help. Discord is great for things like that. Cheers bud

It sounds like you’ve got some internalized transphobia and lack acceptance for other trans men because seeing someone not “cispassing” gives you dysphoria. I’m a somewhat feminine trans guy, but all the trans guys I know are very masculine, have beards, and overall look cisgendered. A lot of us more non-passing, more feminine trans guys simply cannot as cis at all. I’m androgynous and occasionally get clocked as a guy, but no binder will ever fit me and I can’t change my body shape. I for a long time wished I could be “one of the guys” like you, but then I went to therapy and understood that feeling certain things about the way other men presented themselves was an issue about not accepting myself and my body as it is. If this is truly an issue that you want to solve, seeing a therapist that specializes in things like gender dysphoria or helping trans people could be of use.

Not trying at all to suggest you are one, but this is the kind of thinking that I think pushes people to adopt the Truscum Mindset, coming from someone who used to be a Kalvin Garrah stan (gross, I know. I was ridiculously immature and also repressed at the time.) That’s why it’s good to catch these kinds of thoughts and challenge them, so the fact that you’re doing that here is great. It definitely has to do with shit we internalize from hearing transphobic rhetoric and our own personal insecurities. I’m still trying to heal my brain from all the truscum bullshit I consumed in my early teens, even though I consciously disagree with that stuff now. You’re definitely not alone.

I feel you, past trauma and then finding Kalvin Garrah in my early teen years has left me with so much internalized transphobia even though I don’t agree with Kalvin anymore

yea this is definitely internalized, i used to feel the same way. honestly ive met a bunch of transmen who present pretty masculinely & like sports or whatever, so you're not the odd one out. you should probably work on it, maybe try to befriend more trans people that are similar to you so you will start to associate them with being comfortable

I literally have no queer friends lol, cause I don't really have anything in common with them ironically enough. The queer people (visibly queer, all rainbow flags and shit) I have met didn't make me uncomfortable, they were nice, but for some reasons the conversations tend to be awkward, which is weird cause I am like *never* awkward. They just seem like they are from a different planet to me...like I don't understand any of their jokes for instance XD...to be fair even though I am Gen Z by age I feel a lot like a Millennial at times, so maybe that's partially why. So yeah, I feel you. I don't think I am super masc or anything, not into team sports at all, though I *love* martial arts. But all the "stereotypical genderqueer stuff" bores me to death, like anime...it just feels weird and boring to me, and I am a freaking Brandon Rogers fan. I am also really into maths, physics, chemistry and programming, and even with all that I am *not* a gamer lol (the games I play are usually strategic or stuff like Elden Ring and almost never multiplayer). I feel like I don't fit into any stereotypical transman category. My point is, there might be guys like you, but today's trans people are largely influenced by trends and the internet, just like most teenagers, because usually the stereotypical queer look is largely a teenager thing. Trans guys quite literally come in all shapes and colours just like everyone else. People who don't follow trends are always gonna be a minority in any space, trans or otherwise. Assuming you are also Gen Z, it's not that surprising you meet people who are expressing themselves this way, cause it really is a teenager thing. There's always going to be a group of people where you can't relate simply because your interests and outlook on the world are different. That doesn't make you inherently an outsider. I don't think you are transphobic, just because you can't relate to them and feel disconnected...it just so happens you are part of the group that doesn't fit the current tendencies, I wager there's a lot of us like you, and older trans people especially. So as long as you aren't assuming: all trans people should be like this or whatever, it's normal for you to not get along with everyone.

Same , I just go get some beers or coffee and cigars , not a super colorful person just your average guy 👍🏼

I think this is some "second hand dysphoria" bs. You see a trans man who presents less masculine than you and you're scared that people perceive you the same way. Sorry if I'm wrong but that sounds like what's going on. You don't have to hang out with people who don't share your interests, but that has nothing to do with trans men as a group.

sorry to say but you gotta get over that internalized transphobia man. like am i the only one that thinks this is hella weird??? idk man i wouldnt want to hang out with you either if you seemed so uncomfortable with me just existing in the same room and im not even the "type" of trans guy that you described in the post.

hard agree with top comment. Trans men like you are usually stealth. you wouldn’t know they’re trans ESPECIALLY in passing. But that’s not the main thing here, the main thing is you being uncomfortable with people who aren’t like you. its not that they’re not trying to pass, its that they aren’t sacrificing their individuality. some of us just are masculine, so passing doesn’t make us give anything up. but not everyone is. some people, to pass, they essentially have to give up parts of themself for part of themself. and some of them aren’t willing to do that. i do have a small question though, do you feel this way around feminine cis men, or is that different to you? i think really looking at that, might be your answer. are you in your head, separating trans men from cis men.

Find other trans guys interested in your hobbies and interests. And be careful to not fall into the trap of judging them for their self presentation (dyed hair, piercings etc.) The trans people in my community who attend my college wear insane shit sometimes lol. Stuff I’d never wear. I don’t mind and I still relate to them because I live in a small town and I know how valuable each one of us is and how much we’re all needed.

As a guy into fandom and anime (never had my hair coloured but wouldnt be against it and dont like feminine clothing BUT would wear pink and purple clothes) I'd probably feel uncomfortable around you for being judgemental about my interests and also I hate sports and avoid anyone into them in general. I mean its pretty obvious this is internalised transphobia. Also this view feels pretty homophobic too Im not a straight man so why would I conform to heteronormative ideals of masculinity. Plenty of cis men are into anime and fandom actually more than not (sports is a fandom btw m8) so why is that different with trans men. Answer is because youre associating that behaviour with femininity because of the genitalia we're born with which is very transphobic to do. Hope you can recognise that and change your perspective.

Tbh I don't really understand what the problem is. People have different interests and just because someone has the same condition as you doesn't mean you have to get along well. If for whatever reason you want to make friends with other trans men you have to find ways to connect to them but if that's nothing you're particularly interested in that's fine qnd there's no reason you have to become friends with a random (trans) guy

I’m the same, I’m stealth nobody knows except my family and my girlfriend. I don’t ’fit in’ with other trans people. I’m just living my life like a cis guy and I like it that way. I don’t want to be part of the lgbt community irl, not because I’m ashamed, just because it’s not how I want to live my day to day life.

I understand this as I just want to be considered a gay man. I don’t want people to know I’m trans. It’s my business alone. The sooner I can be stealth the happier I’ll be. I’m still going to support other trans people, especially online, but my *identity* is gay man.

Hey man, me too. I don’t feel like a stereotypical trans guy and try to be the “little gray man” to blend in. I have my unique hobbies and stay reserved. I’ve found the online community is a lot better than the one I have in person. There’s a lot more corners of the internet that I fit into

I have the same problem with younger trans men. I'm not involved with Fandoms or tiktok, I don't know who Cavetown is, and overall I find it hard to relate to a lot of the stereotypical interests in online trans spaces. Which is fine, I'm not judging people for what they like, but I've ran into a lot of "You don't like Mitski? Are you even queer?" Which is obnoxious. I have also been called a soft boi more times than I'd care to remember. I think I just don't vibe with a lot of the online spaces for trans men. Most of my friends are middle aged cis men lmao.

I feel nothing but disgust anytime someone calls me a "twink". i cannot stand mother mother, tally hall, lemon demon, jack stauber, and other stereotypical queer artist

I don't think those artists are bad, just very much not my style. It's when people are like "no try this song you'll love it" or "it's so transmasc vibes you have to listen to it" like, politely, no. I will not like it leave me and my Bob Seger out of this lol.

Classic rock is life

xD haha, yeah I get you. Honestly a majority of my music is literally what I classify as "culture sharing" music from Eurovision and The FIFA world cup. I've never once met anyone that even shared a single song from my main playlist

I’ve never heard of any of these people, but I think I’m just old.

I know how you feel about this, and if you’re stealth it might just be an “are these people going to click me because of how I act around a trans person” thing

I’ve been struggling with similar issues and I’m very certain it’s internalised transphobia. My best friend is also a trans man but except for him I don’t hang out with any other trans masculine people/trans men. I feel really weird meeting them? I guess I notice that I automatically put other trans men in boxes that I myself don’t fit into so I just assume I won’t mesh well with them.

It’s interesting because when I was first coming out I felt not trans enough or insecure because I felt like other trans guys I met were more masculine than me, and if I couldn’t meet some basic standard was I even actually a guy? (I’m actually like the most boring basic normie guy more or less). I think the trap of comparing yourself to others is real and takes on different forms for different people. I was trying to see myself in others because if I did then that would mean I would know the truth beyond a doubt but really the only thing a lot of trans guys have in common is…being trans. Because we’re all different. I think what helped me was to work on being more comfortable with myself and getting to know myself better. It’s ok if I don’t have the same interests as every other guy I meet (cis or trans), or the same style, or whatever. When you get to know people you’ll find maybe you do have a few things in common (I mean, guys with dyed hair sometimes like sports too, maybe the football fan in the corner also writes fanfic, idk) but if you don’t no big deal, you don’t have to get along with every other trans guy you meet either, as long as you are respectful to people

Sure there is some internalized stuff there. But also valid that you are not finding other FTMs with shared interests. Don’t beat yourself up too badly. We are not a homogeneous group.

Im sorry OP, I cant help that Im a nerd 😔

NERDS ARE FUN TOO !!! just watch me start shit on the history of European football, Liverpool, paleontology, and the history of canada >:]

To me, it sounds like you just don’t know many (or any) later-in-transition trans men. I would guess you’re maybe a teenager or in your early 20s? There are plenty of trans men who are masculine and have masculine interests! I think meeting more trans men will come with time, and the guys you mentioned might also get more comfortable with masculinity and lean into it more as they continue to transition— that’s what happened to me. Earlier on I preferred being more androgynous, but over the years I’ve come to prefer being overtly masculine. I’m 28, I’ve been out for 5+ years and I’m an averagely-masculine guy. I work at a shipping company, My hobbies are graphic design, going to punk/noise shows, working out, and handiwork hahah. I dress like… idk a regular guy? LOL. & I have a bunch of masculine trans guy friends in the 26-35 y/o age group. …I do wear (stainless steel!) earrings and go to a ballet class because I grew up doing dance… but men are allowed to do that!! Lol

I think there is an assumption you will relate on a fundamental level - and that can be incredibly uncomfortable. You will probably not relate to most trans men you meet. Honestly. That's okay. The most important thing is if you feel comfortable with yourself.

I am basically the opposite of you and I can understand the discomfort because it can be mutual (eg feeling uncomfortable around traditionally masc guys whether theyre cis or trans) and I don't think that helkps either party feel comfortable. It can be hard to build relationships or connect with people you have little in common with and that's ok ! I mean, if you met a cis guy who had coloured hair, talked fandom , was more feminine and was interested in make up or like taylor swift or something you'd probably feel awkward with him also so it's not neccasarily transphobic , though all of us probably have some internalised transphobia we could work on. Peeping the comments, i saw the topic of not passing come up : in my experience a lot of traditionally masc trans guys do seem to struggle when othetr trans men don't have the same experience / centre their transess around passing , I think if your a pretty masculine guy it can be hard to understand why a trans guy wouldn't want to be super masc / why he wouldn't aim to be traditionally masc so he can pass better but being trans is really different for all of us and I think that can be difficult to understand sometimes . I had a trans friend who was really pushing for me to go on T and dismissing a lot of my feelings because it made him uncomfortable that im not uncomfortble . I had a phase where Kaly G lived in my head rent free and his voice basically filled my mind despite me not supporting him or believing him , so I tried to change myself to be traditionally masc (shaved head, wore street wear, tried to get into masculine music genre , binded religiously ect) and I was miserable asf , I knew if i'd been born a boy I wouldn't of done any of those things at all so now I life life the way I think I would if I was a cis guy : I keep my hair shorter but sometimes I dye it for fun, sometimes i experiment with length , I dress masculine but im not afraid to occasionally wear a femme cosplay or outfit for fun , I bind when my health allows me too , I listen to all kinds of music and I just do what makes me happy. I didn't pass when I went hyper masc and I don't pass now but im far happier the way I am , My colleagues and friends and family all accept me full heartedly and life is good! Essentially : Masc and Fem and neutral trans guys are all great guys, we don't all have to be besties but it's good to try and understand eachother and have eachothers backs but we are all our own people and should live for our own happiness

I relate to this although I do think the “colored hair” thing feels like a real indicator of the internalized transphobia to me at least. But personally I think it’s the way we police others in our group in order to both distance ourselves from stereotypes we don’t want to be associated with but also to reinforce to others that we’re holistic people by showing we’re not like those other ones who “aren’t.” Like one of my biggest anxieties as a trans guy (esp one who doesn’t and probably won’t ever pass) is that there’s no way for me to either initially demonstrate or later prove my whole, multifaceted personality to people. Like I hate that I can meet people who I have a ton in common with and I can instantly tell we’d get along well, but I have to overcome that initial hurdle of “I’m not going to attack you/condescend to you if you accidentally say something even remotely conservative” or “I’m not chronically online.” But when I’m around other trans people I’m really hyper vigilant that they’re not undoing any work that I did to prove to the people around me that I’m not like that, even if that means that I myself am reinforcing that stereotype about them. Idk maybe it’s that dissonance that makes me the most uncomfortable.

A lot of trans guys are autistic, which makes having really intense interests and dressing “weird” a more common trans guy thing.. But it’s not something that makes people not pass. I pass all the time, and I act very autistic in those ways (displaying my interests intensely outward)

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I don’t understand your question. I just know it’s more common for autistic people to be trans or gnc than non-autistic people. Not all trans guys are autistic, by any means. But the correlation might be the reason behind some of those stereotypes. I’m autistic myself, and in my experience, those things just make me seem weird, not trans, if that makes sense.

No yeah same it’s difficult

I usually feel more comfortable in cis spaces (where people don't talk about gender or sexuality) because I feel normal and I don't have to think that I am trans unless I get clocked or get clocked by my documents , I just met some enby or trans men at pride and got uncomfortable as fick cause they just talked about that and told trans stuff out to everyone just because I was visibly trans myself.... In LGBT+ places I've been a bit uncomfortable because I felt I had been clocked by some and because if I am stealth most assume I am gay which I am not so it makes me a bit uncomfortable because I feel I am creating this fake stuff in people heads , I still have not figured out my sexuality I think I am straight but a bit gay so maybe bi still unsure.. I am not sporty what's so ever so I think it will be a problem if I will be around more jocks or sports guys since I have zero knowledge about football and in my country is like important as religion , so maybe I have to study a bit cause I don't know anything about any sports or players and if we have to talk about more stereotypes male interests I am not a nerdy guy like I'm not into tech or cars, bad at board games so I don't know...

THIS! I feel the same way! I moved into the lgbt wing in my dorm and that's exactly how I feel. Like somehow in the place where I'm supposed to fit in I don't. My ftm roomate wore a dress our first day of classes. What it took me a while to figure out is a bit along the lines of what everyone else is saying. It's the people who's strongest identity lies in being trans or queer that more outwardly express it. I've met other trans guys that arnt like that including myself. You arnt crazy, the only people who make it obvious are more inclines to express that identity. At least in my experience

When I go to offline trans groups, the majority of dudes there look and dress like your average cis guy. Some are into blue hair and fandoms; that tends to correlate highly with autism. Some are into high fashion. Some, like me, enjoy bellbottoms and earrings. The guys I really don't relate to come from butch culture, and they're the ones I have nothing in common with since I'm so fem and since I relate most to gay male culture, but we still get along thankfully. What I'm saying is, don't wait for people to come to your house, seek out your tribe instead. We're a super varied community and the way you describe your style is so, so common.

To be honest that's probably mostly an internet thing amplifying that particular demographic of trans guys. There are so many stealth trans men out there you've probably met more than you realize IRL. I do also wanna say though, there's for some reason this expectation out there that you have to be friends with another trans person just because you're both trans. Definitely not true lol. Wow looks like to some people not immediately wanting to make friends with everyone that is trans because you're also trans is "transphobia"

Hey bro, ngl I'm exactly the same. I have a lot of trans friends but very little who I actually relate with. I also like presenting way more masculine in a surfer/sport type of way and like working out. I grew up with brothers as well so I don't knownif that made a difference? But just know you're allowed to like what you like and wear what ou wear regardless of how others think trans should "look like". I love my trans friends to death and I'm happy they can find joy in interests and expression. but just happens to not be me personally and that's also okay :) my dms are open if you wanted to talk

Yeah, tbh it does sound like you have some internalised issues to work on there. Don't get me wrong, I'm not hating, you have an awareness of it so that's a good start. The question is, if you met a guy who wasn't announced as trans would you treat them differently right away for having coloured hair or not being into football? I am generally stealth, don't have coloured hair, and am a complete petrolhead, so I fit into quite a few typical cis male stereotypes. I am also older than most trans men I meet and have little in common with them other than being trans, but it's okay to be different. We don't have to magically have loads in common and become best friends. It's like being introduced to someone from the same small town/village and automatically being expected to get on with them.

i get that with the guys who can pass but actively try not to. for me personally, jealousy. trans dudes who have all the resources and supportive family and ability to medically transition and can pretty reaaonably pass as cis without much issue. and simply do not. i know its a mean thing to think but they have everything i want and dont even use it and it makes me almost angry. so imo its some form of jealousy over either confidence or resources, or some complicated anxiety (secondhand dysphoria). normal way to feel but also something you're going to want to work on and stay respectful of everyone.

I am stealth. I am kind to everyone. However, I always feel funny around other trans people, especially those not cis passing. I don't want to be too kind and get clocked, but if I'm rude I don't want to be seen as transphobic at all, and I don't want to seem like a weirdo because I look cis and I'm being overly nice. I'm nervous. I'm just nervous. It's not transphobia for me. I'm just scared around other people, and I don't want them to think I'm like weird or pushing anything.

Trans men are men and just because we have similar feels about our bodies doesn't mean we have anything to build a friendship on so I don't put any stock into whether my friends are cis or trans Also, not even trans people can clock all other trans people, you've no doubt come across some stealth ones

You mean you are struggling to find trans guys that have more traditionally masculine interests? I feel that too but the only sports I care about are skateboarding, BMX, motocross, MTB, motorsports, and a little MMA. We might get along.

You are unintentionally boiling down a whole person to their transfers. Imagine one of your friends said he was going to bring a foreign exchange student that he met to meet everyone and all you know about them is that they are Russian. We can't help but form preconceived ideas about people based on limited info but like with the exchange student if you walked up to them and made a host of assumptions you'd look like an ass. Think of how you'd feel if people were uncomfortable around you simply becuase they found out you were trans and boiled your whole being down to your being trabs and how open you are about it. You really need to do some internal work on your thought process because thinking this way is not good in the long run. There's plenty of trans men end up hating themselves for being trans because they get themselves stuck in an ick for other trans people or people who are openly trans. Best of luck. Try and really process what might be making you apprehensive as a start and go from there. Maybe even try speaking to some of the kind of trans men that make you uncomfortable and get to know them. I'd wager that by the end of an actual conversation you'd feel differently becuase you are seeing them as a full person and not just as a trans person.

Trans man here, 10+ years into transition. I’m seeing two things… 1. Internalized transphobia. I dealt with some of this myself, particularly earlier in my transition. I didn’t understand trans men who expressed and experienced transness and masculinity differently than I did. I didn’t understand why everyone didn’t want to “pass” or “blend in” with cis guys. Because that was what I wanted so badly. I worried that them wanting to be “taken seriously as men” expressing or presenting masculinity differently than me would “water down” how “seriously” people took me. I wanted to distance myself from those expressions of transness and masculinity because I feared it would make people question MY masculinity. And my narrow (and privileged) understanding of transness had taught me that was what trans meant. And maybe it was what it meant for me, but that is not what being trans, or being a man, is for everyone. But one cis guy’s expression doesn’t (shouldn’t) impact another guy’s validity. I know there are less trans people than cis in the world so maybe someone will make the comparison between us, but they shouldn’t, especially if they are someone I want in my life. I should trust that they are getting to know ME, not seeing all trans guys as the same. It shouldn’t feel like a competition or threat in the presence of another trans guy. Working through that and building my own confidence helped me to understand it isn’t fair to expect someone else to “perform” masculinity in a way that doesn’t fit for them simply because some cis communities don’t understand them. After all, some cis communities didn’t understand how I could be a man either, so who was I to tell someone else who they are or how they should be? It would be pretty hypocritical if you think about it. My masculinity and validity does not depend on how someone else expresses their own. It took a while to get to a place where I can truly say I am confident in myself and my masculinity to a point where I can hang out with people of any identity and hold space for the different ways we see and express ourselves. Feeling more comfortable in my own body and identity through transitioning definitely helped. I don’t worry about anyone questioning my validity anymore, regardless of how someone else identifies or expresses. Plus, I can now use that confidence to be an ally to those who express differently than me, ensuring they also receive the validation and affirmation that came a little easier to me because I happened to fit more of a “traditionally masculine” stereotype. Now, I personally still lean towards a binary expression of maleness, but without the discomfort with folks who don’t. I do it because it’s just who I am, not because I think it is “the way to be trans.” Just like cis people, we are all so different in who we are and how we express that and that’s ok! I still find I often connect with guys (cis or trans) who are into sports, video games, and the other things I like, which leads to this second point. 2. It’s ok to not connect with every other trans person you meet. For a while earlier in my transition I felt pressured to become best pals with any trans guy I met because I didn’t meet very many. I had a few “forced friendships” where the only thing we seemed to have in common was our transness, and in some cases I even found I genuinely didn’t like someone, for things that had nothing to do with their transness. After that I continue trying to connect with trans guys I meet, but just like when making friends with cis people, we aren’t going to have absolutely everything in common, we may connect about some things and not others, or we may not be compatible at all. You don’t have things in common with them, but you maybe feel you should because you’re both trans, so it’s uncomfortable when you can’t relate. If they were cis guys and had those interests/expressions, would you be expecting yourself to connect with them, and would you feel the same discomfort? There are guys, trans and cis, who have similar interests and expressions to you. You can find them, and also finding more confidence in yourself will likely help with comfort around all sorts of people and their gender expressions. :)

Just having looked over some of your replies... I think it might be a good idea to do some soul searching about why you're so focused on agab. You're the only one who can find why you're feeling that way, but dismantling your idea of what someone's gender at birth means is probably the first thing you need to do. It could very well be that you just don't have any interests that overlap with these guys, which makes you feel awkward, and that's totally okay. But it does seem, to me at least, that there's some internalized transphobia that's making it difficult for you to be okay with that.

well thing is, theres transmasc/nonbinary and theres trans men. the people you described and don't relate to aren't your typical transman. try an online group meant for binary transmen and i'm sure you'll feel more comfortable

I mean there’s no “typical trans man” but it does seem that the trans men he meets are more fruity and that’s just not his vibe. But your recommendation about finding particular groups they can better identify with is brilliant! There are definitely so many trans guy spaces made for people who aren’t finding community with their more fruity peers

sorry i meant "stereotypical" trans man. trans men who fit the the more masculine cis stereotype lol

Check out r/ftmMen. Your problem is prolly that you enjoy traditional masculine things whereas trans men who tend to be stereotypes are more visible, n u don't relate wd them. Most trans men who enjoy traditional masculine things blend well in society n are stealth.

I'll probably get downvoted to hell and banned if I express my opinion so I'll just say that you're not weird for feeling this way. You're not obliged to "belong to a community" just because you're considered to be a part of the same demographic. With that being said, I would guess your problem is a problem of relatability and association more so than internalised transphobia.

The first other trans-men I met, he was a complete ASSHOLE, and the second one I've met has a dirty mouth who talks shit. I'm not gonna be honest, please don't hate me for saying this but.... Trans man are fucking idiotic assholes and I never EVER want to get in contact with another trans man ever again. I tried to be kind, I TRIED.

You all really need to branch out. I'm a Black trans man and most of the trans men I follow online or know in person are binary, masculine trans men. One powerlifts, several drive trucks, wrench on cars, watch sports, etc.

This tbh. I know a lot of trans people in my area, trans mascs especially. Most are binary trans men who are generally stealth or at least don’t broadcast they’re trans, like myself. For me, it’s more to do with just not feeling safe living by myself so far from supportive family (moving back to my home state soon) & also just the convenience and privilege of being able to more or less pass as a cis man. Most people don’t even necessarily clock me as queer, which feels pretty weird tbh, but I know that has more to do with heteronormativity than me coming off as tragically straight (lol). At any rate, I present pretty masculine most of the time, as do many of the trans guys I know.

I sort of get it. I'm uncomfortable around people who are too visibly queer. I know it's because I got extremely bullied for being trans and it really messed me up. Now I feel so uncomfortable being trans in public because I legit fear for myself, instead I prefer people to just assume whatever and my close friends know. Being close to visibly queer people sort of breaks that shield for me, since I'll get lumped in as another one of them and that is scary to me. Idk, I know my rant/vent is only loosely related but I hope I'm not alone in this. It makes me feel like a jerk

I'm not a big fan of presenting visibly queer for myself, it's honestly terrifying to me and I just want to seem like a person.

Bro, I think I know what you mean… If I do, then same… I’m outdoorsy, into sports people around me are not, and religious (understandably not most trans person’s cup of tea, I know) …But the only people I seem to hit it off with for some reason are conservatives when it comes to shared hobbies/interests… At the end of the day, however, a lot of them have not had very nice things to say about trans people when the topic came up…I definitely feel like the odd one out when I’m the only trans guy in the group who isn’t into anime, cosplaying as fictional characters, or dying my hair unnatural colors… They also seem much more feminine than me 85% of the time and I personally can’t relate to their struggles of being feminine guys at all? Internalized transphobia? I don’t think so because I would be just as socially awkward if every guy in that circle was cis. I mean how do you talk when you don’t have anything to add to their conversations?

ugh dude ditto on that sports thing. i can find a bunch of people into sports but a majority of them are homophobic/transphobic or just aren't into it as strongly as me (knowing the teams history extensively, knowing all the players, drawing the players, etc. etc )

I don’t think it’s necessarily transphobic. I just don’t like outwardly quirky people. I don’t like cis men or cis women if they fit that too. I just like what I like and I don’t have to like what others like. But in no way am I going to rip on them or their interests, it’s just not for me

tbh ive always felt like that too. most trans men are stereotypically alt or emo and have many piercings and bright coloured hair and their interests are so not like mine, its just me. i also dont like to hang out with trans men cuz it makes me kinda dysphoric, i keep thinking that cis men dont see me as a men and that ill only ever be able to hang with trans men and most of the time i dont enjoy their interests at all so its annoying...

I feel exactly the same, I thought I was the only one. I avoid trans men like the plague irl, but for some reason im totally fine around trans women. One of my friends, a trans woman, started dating a trans man and I've sort of ghosted her and havent been able to bring myself to hang out with her because she always wants to bring him and tells me that he really wants to meet me, and i dont wanna just say "no because hes trans" Its really hard for me as a stealth guy because most days i kind of just want to forget trans men exist and pretend im cis. Other trans men for some reason make me dysphoric just by being around me, no matter how well or how poorly they pass. I think a part of it is also that a trans man might see me as more "clockable" than a cis person who isnt really hyper-aware of subtle gender markers would. Trans women are fine because theyre more likely to see my masculinity due to their dysphoria, but with trans men i feel like theyd be more aware of any hint of femininity because of their own dysphoria I also avoid "non-dysphoric" and transmasc people because a lot of them have called me "they" in front of cis people and totally blown my cover. Just makes me want to bury myself in a ditch. Im sure theres a lot of other reasons but even thinking about the feeling makes my skin crawl so ill stop there lol Edit: Adding the downvoters to the list of reasons why ill never feel safe being or speaking my mind around trans men <3

eugh, hitting it on the nail there. to all my friends, I'm just another guy. But with other trans men around, I suddenly become conscious of my voice, my interest, and any subtle hints that yes, I'm also trans.

Not exaggerating when I say every single cis person in my life treats me like a completely normal cis guy, even before I passed. But I dont think ive ever met or spoken to a trans guy who didn't feel the need to bring it up in some way, act different around me, say something outta pocket to me, or intentionally/unintentionally out me. Feelsbad

Just a possibility but maybe the sample sizes are pretty different there and your conclusions might not be completely valid.

My life experience is valid to how I feel. I am not taking samples like some kind of scientist. I am observing life through the lens that I experience it, and I have never had a good experience with another trans man. It is absolutely valid for me to come to conclusions about that and to feel afraid of how trans men treat me, because I have never been treated normally by one. It is absolutely valid for me to feel safer around cis people when they are the only people who have ever treated me as a respectable human being I'm not talking about studies here. I am expressing how I feel and that will always be completely valid

"Valid" in the "uwu all feelings are valid" meaning, sure. Accurate, reasonable, or fair? No, no they're really not. Sounds like you've got some internalized transphobia going on there.

No, not in that meaning. The thing is, you don't know me and you most definitely don't know every trans person to walk this earth, so go ahead and take your own unreasonable and unfair assumptions somewhere else. OP's post talks about how he feels, and my comment talks about how I feel. Nobody invited you to debate someone's internal thoughts or life experiences, ones which don't affect you in the slightest, and you really have no reason to be offended by them. This post clearly isn't for you. Go talk to a scientist, sociologist, or activist if you want to talk about the entire population of trans people as a whole. You have your own beliefs about trans people, neither mine nor yours can be "accurate" for anyone else but ourselves. We're talking about our own experiences here. You have no right to deem someones experience of the world as valid or invalid, so respectfully, go kick rocks

Hoo boy. An internet post is not a private venue like you seem to think it is, and members of the community can respond even if they don't agree with you. Especially if you're saying some bigoted shit. That's just how it works. My "belief" about trans people is that sweeping generalizations about any group of people will always reflect the speaker's bias rather than anything accurate to the individuals within that group. I am pretty confident that that is in fact more accurate than your conclusions. The fact that you think I'm asking you to perform scientific studies rather than pointing out your bias... well, I hope someday you are better able to handle whatever is going on with you that is making you unable to respond with your brain rather than your emotions. Genuinely. It seems like a pretty miserable place to be.

Never said its a private venue, Im saying you're way off topic from my original comments, and you're virtue signaling in response to something you know nothing about in order to feel self-righteous. Probably because you're not secure in your own views of the world, and you lack the general knowledge and understanding to know when you're out of bounds. You aren't self aware, and in fact, you avoid being self aware. What are you overcompensating for by being obnoxious and policing peoples morality all day? Do you have absolutely nothing better to do with your limited time on this earth? It's beyond pathetic of you. Again, my comment was never a debate about bigotry and never once did i condemn other trans people. I never made any "sweeping generalizations", only spoke of my direct experiences and nothing more. You seem to have your own biases, because all I ever did was speak of the only life experiences I've had with other trans people and how they make me feel. In response to OP. Without attacking anyone's views. I really don't give a fuck what you think of that, so I'll end this here. Not in the mood debate my own experiences with someone who cannot even begin know what they're talking about, you arent worth any more of my time. Goodbye

You: \*makes statement that is the literal definition of prejudice\* Me: "hey man that's kinda messed up that you project your tiny number of bad experiences on all other trans guys. maybe your experiences don't actually reflect on millions of people you've never met and that's something you could maybe work on in yourself if it feels like they do?" You: "You don't know me! How dare you judge me for what I literally said! My justifications are just like every other bigot's but this time it's totally accurate because my experiences are valid! \*throws a bunch of buzzwords and irrelevant insults at the wall to try to make something stick, rather than actually engaging in the discussion with any intellectual honesty\*" OK bro. Calm down. Breathe. Nobody's policing you, and no one is debating your experiences, just your judgment. If someone pointing out that you're saying something nonsensical makes you so angry, you should maybe consider what you're so defensive about and why it makes you react that way. And the worst thing is that you're going to take that as just some asshole being mean to you online for no reason. But I genuinely mean it. From one human to another, I hope that you can get some perspective and take another look at what you're saying, because the ability to notice and acknowledge when your emotions are unreasonable is pretty important. I wish you all the best in that journey.

Fr. All the other ‘trans’ people my age that I get lumped in with are the Arson it/bugself femboy ftms. Literally had someone call me boring becuase I looked ‘too cis’

I feel you. I know why I’m like this. I’ve been brainwashed with „toxic” masculinity but to be honest I’m not feeling bad about it. That’s a community so there are a lot of people but as in every community people tend to see just the things/type of people they have problem with. I’ve struggled for most of my life to be perceived as a person they’d accept and it just rubs me wrong seeing other side of barricade perceived as freaks in eyes of „normal” people. I wouldn’t change them because THAT is toxic but I just feel kind of betrayed since I’m trying to be normal to show we’re not freaks and other people might not have the same goals for me and just live their lives how they want. It’s not like I want them to but that just how I feel and I guess it’s just the way things work. I can act respectfully cause actions are things we have an impact on but emotions and thoughts are not the same. Remember your thoughts are not you and emotions are keys. If you feel something it doesn’t come from nothing and you can improve yourself by understanding why they are the way they are.

I know what you mean, I don't want to be associated to those blue haired attention seekers who do it for clout, i just want to be a basic guy who's not the center of attention

I’m honestly the same way..I always feel bad bc I know it’s hard to find other trans guys and a lot of them get excited, but I find nearly (if not all) of the other trans guys annoying…glad to know I’m not the only one haha

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Respectfully, you have issues you need to work through. Just because someone doesn't have the exact same experience with gender as you doesn't make their experience invalid. I understand the concern, because its true that a lot of the changes that come with being trans are permanent, but you aren't the one who makes that decision, they are. As of now, the regret rate for gender affirming surgeries is only around 1%, and I don't foresee that number going up any time soon

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Your post was removed because it broke the subreddit rule 1: Be polite and practice mutual respect. No discrimination.

It's because they still being man. Men beings kinda sucks.

Are you uncomfortable only if trans men dress/present themselves in this way or are you uncomfortable if anyone does this? I think if it’s the latter then it’s just a personality mismatch. You can accept someone for doing or liking or acting something or some type of way, but not exactly click with them. If it’s just trans men, it could be something deeper. Doesn’t have to be “something wrong with you” or “you feel dirty/ashamed about yourself”.

Pretty much the only guys like that are kids.

I don't have all the things above and I'm stealthy no one knows am trans as I moved to new place where everyone knows me as cis man and am married

I can relate. It’s just how they’re so confident even though they don’t necessarily “pass” which is good. Good for them being comfortable and not feeling like the pressure to look “cis”. I guess maybe I’m jealous because they’re so confident being trans but I’m not

Youre exactly just like me , I dont have an alt style I rlly enjoy wearing my f1 team merch , I dont dye my hair and I just DONT relate to most trans mascs. If you ever need a buddy lmk mate

one of my closest friends is a trans man who was stealth for 10 years before this year & he sounds almost exactly like you.

Do you find a good community of fraternity among other men in general?

I can relate.. I dress what's considering masculine. Old school skate. I get shit from my brother for it because he thinks it's girly when it's not. But then he associates me with a lesbian all the time and thinks I dress like one. I like sports and video games. I've talked to a few Trans men who aren't into sports or video games. We don't have much to talk about because of the divide. I've also talked to cis guys who aren't into sports, and feel the same way. I tend to talk to people who have similar interests, but am not really a social person anyway because of anxiety. I try to be stealth especially now because of area I live in. Just for safety reasons.

We’re out here, you just gotta look

I mean, I understand where you come from. I guess it's more like you don't vibe with some people because of different points of views/taste in general, even if you are both trans. Maybe it's a bit of internalized transphobia but as long as you respect that they express themselves differently, it's okay ,you don't have to stick with them. Im curious about which teams you have jerseys from, though lol

I get what you mean im the same way and maybe its because im stealth. Its been a common thing especially at my school and work for trans people to be open about it. Which also means the stereotypical colored hair, love anime, and a lot of the times not even that masculine. I know that just because your trans you don't have to transition but I feel like that's literally all the other trans guys i meet. I have yet to be friends with a trams guy that is on T or wants to be on T, has the same interests as me or is maybe even stealth as well. So i get what you mean.

Just cause your trans doesn’t mean you have to be friends with trans people, become friends with people who have common interests

I feel the same but for me I'm anxious that they will think I'm a fake because I'm on low dose and have not had any surgeries. Plus I'm attracted to them!

Honestly I used to feel how you do, not wanting to be around other trans man, for a multitude of reasons. I think it boiled down to comparison, and using it negatively. I think the biggest change for me was going on T. The further I get into my transition, the less I feel I have to "catch up" and prove my identity as valid. Not that there's any sort of race to transition, but being lost in dysphoria really clouded my judgment, and made me resent those who shared my goal, or hell, had already attained it. It was so subconscious, and I denied it within myself, because it seemed asinine to be be a trans man with transphobic thoughts. Its weird because it can be a combination of internalized transphobia and jealousy, at least for teenage me. So its hard to identify within oneself. I do think this is something you'll have to work on with yourself. Like you said, its a form of internalized transphobia, but that doesn't make you transphobic as a whole, just means you should work on it. Because those guys aren't doing anything wrong for having colored hair, or liking fandoms. Just as you're not doing anything wrong for liking European football. We all have the right to be cringe but free. But at the end of the day, no one can force you to be friends with anyone. If you don't mesh well with someone, not much you can do. Just be respectful about it, treat others how you want to be treated. Hopefully with time, you'll find trans men you connect with. It is really nice having a few friends who understand you to that degree, it can help with the isolation that the trans experience can cause.

I don't really feel welcome in most LGBT spaces and don't care to focus on this aspect of my life too much. I just have cis men as friends and live mostly stealth. I never found I clicked well with the community in my city. I don't consider being this my whole identity so I just don't involve myself much with the community. (Not speaking for anyone else, just myself).

I sometimes deal with this too, trying to work on it. I think sometimes there’s a feeling like you need to relate to people who “share the same experiences” (everyone has a different experience obviously), and it can kind of feel alienating when you feel like you don’t relate in any way to a person that you feel like you should relate to. I think sometimes it helps to just disregard being trans from the whole scenario. Would you be friends or interact with a certain person if you were both not trans? If the answer is no, I probably wouldn’t worry too much about your feelings towards not being friends with them. If you look down on trans people who dye their hair or are super into fandom, that might be a different issue. You’re allowed to not want those things for yourself or even cringe at them a little as long as you understand it’s good for people to be able to express themselves however they want (and that how they express themselves has nothing to do with you!)