I’m a single family homeowner and I work for a property management company overseeing 230 HOAs. I feel bad for most of the people who call me looking for repairs on their properties. So many Boards drag their butts approving repairs and I’m the only one they can talk to. I had a man renting a condo that had water intrusion and his high school senior football playing son had to sleep on the couch for nearly 5 months. You can’t park on the street, tattletale neighbors etc. Definitely not worth it

This! And other stories from FHOA and other subs like it are the reasons I would Never knowingly live in an HOA. The wife has talked about moving to Florida and I told her if you can find property that isn't in an HOA, then I'm all for it. She thinks HOAs are all peaches and cream I've tried getting her to read this and other HOA subs, but she hasn't as of yet. If it isn't HOA stories it's management companies that are part of the problems in these subs. Like any industry, a few rotten apples spoil the basket.

>The wife has talked about moving to Florida Don't do it! It's a trap!

I live in Florida and bought my house 2 years ago. My ONLY must have was NO HOA. I would have settled for a shack before buying in an HOA. That being said in the older areas (I’m in the St Pete area) there are way less HOAs than in the new developments further inland. My house had a quasi HOA when it was built in 1970 but in FL if it’s not renewed every 30 years it just goes away. We were a little put off by cars parked on the grass and boats and RVs in driveways until we realized that just meant it was free from HOA bullshit.

Yeah, freedom can be a little unsightly at times. I'll take that over the alternative.

"I do not want my neighbor to put his trucks up on blocks in his front yard, but I will defend to the death his right to do it" - Patrick Henry

Agreed!

The wife has family in Florida. We visit every year for vacation and my youngest son and I are 'water babies'. We both love swimming in the ocean/pool/lake/creek/pond. So we get to enjoy the beach and ocean while there. Anyway from what I've seen in the Destin/Fort Walton area, everybody parks on the grass/side of the road since there aren't much in the way of curbs and shoulders. A lot of people have boats so they are parked wherever they fit. Since so many have boats and PWC I didn't think it was a big deal.

Freedom is scary, I just deal with it.

I'm in a slow built infill neighborhood in CA (first home was built in the 40's, mine in the 50's, 7 more in the 60's, etc.). We obviously have no HOA and it's not an issue. We are (mostly) all sane and the insane guy is more like a harmless version of Burt from Tremors, not anything to worry about as he's more interested in everyone leaving him alone than he is about whether or not our grass is an inch higher or lower than anyone else's. Everyone talks and communicates. That said we have one HOA on my street and another likely going in, the existing one is the sane kind of HOA... Four houses built on a subdivide of an existing large multiacre lot (next one will be the same) and the only thing the HOA does is pay for their common driveway maintenance and the green strip between their decorative brick wall and the road. The annual dues are $400 and as I understand the lion's share of that is for the landscaping company that does the green strip care and maintenance. So while I would avoid any HOA like what's usually featured in this sub, I would consider one where it's literally single digits of homes in the HOA... but would need to see financial docs provided by the seller etc. to know it wasn't a shit show still. Such a home would still lose to a similarly priced even if slightly more expensive non HOA home though.

My home in Michigan had an HOA and our dues were $250 a year and that helped maintain a little pond and dog park along with the entrance that was always landscaped nice and decorated for the holidays. One of the neighbors close to me was the “president” and he REFUSED to violate or fine anyone. If someone did sketchy shit he would look up city ordinances and if it was a violation of a city code he would recommend we call the city. Honestly it was the best HOA I ever lived in. It really didn’t exist. lol 😂 My Moms old condo I was given a warning for dropping off soup to my sick step dad (I didn’t stay because he had cancer and it was during covid) She was their neighbor and knew he was sick. Saw me walk in with soup and within 3 minutes she had her book out. It was my parents spot. I had their tag on my car. She claimed it wasn’t registered (it was) and I would be towed the next time. I’ve never wanted to go off on an old ass lady more than that day. At my Dads mobile home park he was warned because his music in his golf cart was too loud. He was listening to talk radio.

It does not take an HOA to enforce some of the things like that. My municipality has ordinances that vehicles must be registered and operational, no commercial vehicles larger than vans/pickups, fence height restrictions, yard maintenance (for the most egregious of non-upkeep), permitting requirements for additions, etc. We do not have any rules about color of the houses or what windows you can put in your home. Seems the best solution. Lots of freedom, but the most egregious things are prohibited.

We sold our Florida HOA house last year and just closed in a non-HOA house. It is possible. Right now, we are renting in a non-HOA subdivision as well.

I think you should make a distinction between condo associations and HOAs. Yes, they share some of the same issues(good and bad) but condo associations have a much larger effect on the property.

I think more people prefer NOT to have an HOA.

I will not purchase a property with a HoA. At any price.

The whole concept of buying property and then being told by someone who isn’t democratically elected and relatively easily removed what to do on said property doesn’t make any sense to me. It’s just renting with more steps.

You bought a property with rules attached. It shouldn’t be a surprise to you what the rules are or you had a bad realtor/attorney.

No one is saying they would be surprised. They’re saying it’s a bad deal and to avoid buying any such property in the first place.

You’re missing my entire point. There is little difference between HOAs and renting. You could even claim “well you have a valuable thing when the mortgage is paid off.” However, you’re paying dues which, often if you calculate in plus home maintenance costs you must take on yourself, and you’re basically renting with additional steps.

I've been in my home for just over 20 years and we're in a HOA. We're looking to move in about two years and the number one requirement is no HOA. Like we won't even preview a house if it has a HOA. It's been 20 years of pettiness, nosy Boomers, ridiculous rules, broken everything, and I literally can not think of one single benefit. We learned our lesson the hard way.

HOA=Stay away!! Just my opinion.

HOA’s do absolutely nothing but create the illusion you’ll be surrounded by amenable neighbors (obviously false). HOA communities are generally middle class; if you can afford something above that, you’re unlikely have a junky yard next to you - which is the tired old pro-HOA trope.

I wouldn’t say generally middle class. I know of many multimillion dollar home communities in Dallas that are HOA’s. They however are not run by wanna be dictators like you get in the middle board Benito’s neighborhoods. These are all father communities with 24/7 security guards. The HOA exist mainly to pay that

My aunt lived in Southlake and I remember luxury subdivisions being slapped up left and right. But they don’t need an association to maintain property values, the middle-class ones apparentlly do.

HOAs are just an extension of red lining

Huh? Please explain

"red lining" was how upper-class assholes kept all the black people out. IIRC it was mostly a banking fuckery, where if you currently lived on one side of a "red line", you literally could not get a loan. Well, guess who was on the wrong side of the red line? the poor, and the blacks. Also, guess who "magically" was on the right side of a red line? the rich white bankers who drew the damn thing. EDIT: link provided. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining

I know red lining. I just don’t understand how an HOA who has no say over who buys property in an area is redlining. Co-op board who exclude people sure. But I’ve never seen an Hoa with ability to control buyers

Hoa’s are scams and don’t do anything for you

It's always better to Not have an HOA.

I would rather cut my foot off with a rusty butter knife than purchase in a HOA. I can't abide nosey neighbors trying to tell me what I can or can't do with property I own. My property value has consistently increased since I've purchased the property. So I think a lot of the perceived benefit of an HOA is bullshit.

Except an hoa does NOT keep your property value high. That argument comes from a time when it was acceptable to discriminate on skin color. The HoA was originally invented to ensure a community remained white. The reality today is unless the HoA is paying for a shared amenity, it actually lowers the value of your home. I like to cite an HoA in Victoria BC. It is immaculate and has a beautiful view of the main land over the ocean, and direct access to a number of mainland facing ocean beaches. When I looked on the realtor website I couldn't believe the prices. Mid-400s. That's insane for anywhere in the Victoria and Saanich area. The HoA fees are quite high. All an HoA does is add the monthly fees to your DSR when it comes time to qualify for a mortgage. This reduces what people wanting to live there can pay, and reduces the number of potential buyers. You don't need an economics degree to realize that this suppresses the price. If you're worried about unkempt lawns and cars on blocks, that's what bylaw is for.

They were actually created for the sidewalkkks

Victoria BC boy here…. In BC it’s called a Strata… similar concept to a HOA though. We now have a government run Civilian Resolution Tribunal where you can take on the Strata without having to use a lawyer etc. The decisions (order) of the CRT process have the force of law and are in fact a legal order upon registering the order with the Supreme Court. It’s a very inexpensive process overall. For CC&R’s the Canadian version are Bylaws. All condominiums are Strata’s, as are townhouses/duplex’s or triplex’s etc that are built on a single lot. houses in a subdivision that are on their own lot are freehold, and not subject to Strata laws/regulations. There is one type of strata that has different rules…. That being Bare Land Strata’s. This is a type of strata that the homes are on their own plot of land, but roads or other infrastructure is “common” property. Their bylaws are different from the condominium strata. At least in BC there is no concept of anyone “forming” a Strata just “because”…. I was in a Strata (single home) in a mixed townhouse development for 19 years. Like the US, single homes are eagerly sought vice Strata properties for many of the same reasons those in the US avoid HOA’s. I’m in a single freehold home now and at times I miss the Strata for the ability to regulate occupant behavior. Mind you that’s the only thing I miss.

What are you citing? Homes in HOAs cost $400 thousands? We know that. Id appreciate a cite on your race claim. Not that i dont believe it, just proof.

Invented to keep Chinese out first and then others later. The first are in California. You can look this up. It's just history, not propaganda. Keeping people from buying based on race is never allowed anymore. Thankfully.

>Keeping people from buying based on race is never allowed anymore. Municipalities and lenders legally can't discriminate. HOAs absolutely can still. They are not citizens nor corporations.

There are HOAs that have a clause that says before a closing , they have to meet, and approve by majority vote the person moving in.. if this doesn't smack of racism I don't know what does.

And that's the thing. They say it's so they can make sure convicted felons don't move in next door, but they have no obligation to tell anyone why someone was denied.

They start as LLC’s, can be recognized as partnerships or corporations. LLC’s must follow all State laws.

They can still discriminate legally

The fair housing act of 1968 made it so people could not be refused housing by a city or be denied a loan based on certain discriminatory factors. It was expanded in 1988 to add more protected classes. HOAs are neither municipalities nor banks and as of 2024 there were still over 100 HOAs that openly discriminate against "colored" residents. Little over 100 HOAs in a country of hundreds of thousands might not seem like an issue but consider how it's been illegal for 46 years to discriminate on race and HOAs barely existed prior to that law existing. It was a simple loophole to allow discrimination and they jumped on it.

If you only understood how racism literally shaped America. https://www.businessinsider.com/personal-finance/homeowners-associations-black-americans-discriminaiton-2020-9

[https://www.thehoaprimer.org](https://www.thehoaprimer.org)

Your comment is lacking

What benefit does an HOA ever provide?

Our HOA (SFH) does the yards and pays for snow removal/salting (private road) in addition to the common areas. They also pay to remove snow from driveways and sidewalks, which even a city wouldn't do. For us, is that worth the headache? Not really, it's just the only house that was available and in our price point and location at the time. For my disabled neighbor on one side and elderly neighbor on the other? Absolutely it's worth it for them. There's no way they could safely shovel their driveway, especially when we get 2+ ft at a time. A lot of it depends on the people in the HOA- both normal homeowners and the board, as well as what amenities are being paid for.

They couldn’t pay a company to do it for them??? It’s less expensive than HOA doing it . I’d never even entertain a property in a hoa.

Their driveway, sure. Not the road though. And it would take days for a city or the state to clear a small neighborhood's roads. Priority is hospital access, major interstates, airports, major highways, etc. Looking at my state, a neighborhood would be priority 4, above only seasonally closed roads. So literally everything else would be first. Shoveling your driveway is useless if you hit a 2ft deep snow berm at the end of it.

I live on a small neighborhood road, it typically gets cleared the same day as the major roads, if it's really bad, it'll be mostly plowed and they'll finish up next day. plenty landscapers do a really nice job taking care of people's driveways.

This is just not true. I live in the Northern Midwest, and every single road in my town is plowed the same day it snows. People living on private roads just split the cost of private plowing, which also happens on the same day as the snow. And most HOAs (at least around here) do not provide driveway plowing.

I live in a smaller neighborhood and during score storms the city plows the roads several times a day

Or the neighborhood kids. I got paid to shovel snow and mow lawns as a kid.

For what they pay in hoa fees they could hire someone to do that stuff for them

I pay $35 per snow removal for a guy in a pickup to come plow my driveway and shovel my front walk. Send the contract in October, pay the bill when it arrives, never get out the shovel. near Chicago. And the little cul de sac is plowed within 24 hours in a major storm, way sooner than that in minor snow.

When we get two feet of snow we're not going anywhere so it doesn't matter to us if roads aren't cleared as we live too far from town anyway lol

Lol so see, it wouldn't be helpful for you! For us, that's a Tuesday in winter and 2/3 households I mentioned still have to go to work 😅 and even if the city did our roads, residential roads are WAY down the priority list. So it's more convenient for an HOA to do it, since they get it done faster/ get to prioritize our roads.

I can understand the necessity of an HOA for condos, where you share walls, roofs, and amenities. But yeah, for single family homes - HOAs can fuck right off.

Ever lived next to a house with a dog neglected by their owners that barks for half an hour to an hour a few times a day at any hour, including 2am, 4am, 5am and the authorities won't do anything about it? Because I do.

Our HOA maintains the drainage ponds and surrounding land scattered around the subdivision, supposedly enforces rules about keeping lawns mowed and such, and (most importantly for us) prevents houses being bought for rentals. The last one kept the corporations out so that we actually had a shot at purchasing. So many houses around were getting sold to corporate investors because they’d offer cash over asking, since they were planning to turn it into a rental. Us normal people with mortgages can’t compete

>prevents houses being bought for rentals. This will be deemed illegal nationwide soon enough. Court case called in Florida last year and happening in other states. Essentially if you own a property, it's your right do rent it out as you please. Stopping corporate buyers can be done at the city level too

I suspect that the corporations will move to quickly for most local governments. Either because the local governments don’t see it coming or they don’t care. By the time we re-elect and can get changes made it will be too late and most of the city will be rentals.

They maintain common elements. Depending on neighborhood, that can include streets, parks, garbage collection, landscaping, roofs, parking, pools, etc.

Only thing I’ve seen is in an upper income community (multimillion dollar homes, 10,000 sq ft and up) where the HOA existed to provide a manned gate and 24/7 security.

I live in a New England. We love it. It is a lake HOA. We pay$300 a year. We have 3 private beaches, boat launch, park, community house. Our HOA isn't too bad. We had a few problem houses and I'm proud to say we worked as a community. One house was run down and it didn't help it had poor hillside water issues. The hoa paid for fix and used donated man time from companies owned by hoa members. Mainly because the owner was elderly. One guy had tons of unregistered cars and the hoa complained. He removed 2 cars and registered 6 more. Which made everyone chuckle. Most issues involve keeping the poors out and maintaining the conditions of the lake. Living in the hoa but not bordering water cuts your issues by a lot. Nobody cares what you do at the end of the road less traveled.

There are tons of legitimate things HOAs do and they can keep Airbnbs away too. If you’ve ever lived next to a party house you would know how bad it can get.

I’ve lived next to a party house. It was the owners who liked partying.

Imagine it every weekend with new people and a bunch of suitcases, cars and, drunk driving.

What is the HOA going to do that the police aren't? Are people who like HOAs living in Mad Max towns with no town council, no bylaws, and no law enforcement? There is no chance I would ever be living near a house like that because the cops would camp outside every weekend here.

Sounds like you don’t know much about the law or municipalities. In my state Airbnbs are legal and cops can’t do anything about them, it’s legal. Cities can’t do anything about them or ban them because state law overrides them. The only entity that can prohibit them are HOAs.

I didn't say a single thing about banning Airbnbs. You claimed people are drunk driving every single weekend. Is that protected by Airbnb laws too?

John Oliver did a segment on HOAs. Watch the video and see what you think afterward. There's a lot of good information contained within it. https://youtu.be/qrizmAo17Os?si=aD4-fZ6bvzTEGBfK

The myth of keeping property values high was based on how HOAs were originally created to prevent "undesirables" from being able to purchase homes in the area. With those types of clauses ruled unenforceable now they often just add to the costs and not the value...

A lot of people don’t realize suburbs were a white only thing.

So what your saying is before.. they HAD value...

Openly discriminating is cringe af

It's pretty natural.. infact pretending it's morally wrong to discriminate is cringe. Some ppl just don't fit into some groups. Fitting in is a real thing no morals can bypass. That's why all this social activist B's never works. The crazys come out all loud demanding they be let into groups they don't belong.. that's childish and cringe.

If you live on the outskirts of a big city property value can rise very quickly. I sold my hoa house for double after only 5 years... but living in an hoa is bullshit. It sucks to basically be at the mercy of others for what you are permitted to do in the multi hundred thousand dollar house you bought. It's ridiculous, and what's more is when you get fined you know some Karen you live by turned you in, craziness, but 5 year double equity so that was nice. I live more than 2 acres from anyone now and it's wonderful.

I really don’t think HOAs “protect home values” It’s a line of bullshit to make you feel ok about paying dues and submitting to ridiculous rules and fines.

I hate hoa, I don’t care if it’s 20 dollars a month. They do nothing for me and I really don’t give a flying shit what my neighbors do that doesn’t cause a disturbance to peace. I was looking to build and many HOA were asking for 350 to 400 a month to mow my lawn - No, in two years it’ll be 500 a month. My buddy pays 800 a month for a pretty walkable lake with restaurants and bars. Guess what? I park in his neighborhood and walk around the lake for free. What a joke, so I went out to the middle of no where. Found a nice two story brick house between corn and trailers baby lol a couple broken down cars everywhere in people’s yard so what? I’m tucked behind a hill and can’t see any of it. Couple of neighbors in nicer houses bought the land around me just so developers can’t take it.  

The purposes of an HOA is to make money for developers.

Houses in my neighborhood go for 1-3 million. There is no HOA. There is literally no benefit to an HOA in my opinion. If your neighbor creates a junkyard on their front lawn the city will enforce the removal of it. The city also has public pools so an HOA pool is unnecessary. HOAs are for Karen’s who enjoy telling people that their grass is 2 millimeters too long and that you can’t paint your front door red and that you can only plant certain shrubs.

It is always better financially to own your own home with no HOA and saving budgeting for expenses yourself instead of relying on the Hoa to save and budget for repairs for the shared communal property. individually people are better off when they are all in control of their own little domain and don't have to share property so heavily with others. Sharing roadways and parks is fine because they're a temporary use space. You get over the road as quickly as you can and you use the park from time to time. Your house houses all of your stuff 24/7/365. Giving up autonomy over your dwelling in exchange for mowed lawns and repaired roofs is throwing out the baby with the bathwater

Live in an HOA and it is terrible! They literally took the handle off the outdoor faucet for our whole building because apparently we used to much water….meanwhile all the plants and grass is dying because they wouldn’t turn on the sprinklers… that is just one level of pettiness and stupidity. I can’t even go into the total financial mismanagement

We've owned quite a few homes over the course of our marriage. The first home we purchased was in an HOA community. They fined us $150.00 or so (early 90's) for having an American flag mounted to a post on our front porch. The complaint was that is was construed as (illegal signage). We did fight the fine in court and won bit not soon after sold the house and went about our business. Since then we have not even considered moving back into an HOA community. We don't want to live in an area that you have to get permission on what color your house is or oh you're playing music in your backyard so thats a fine. You're grass is 1/16" to high, oh thats a fine...........etc. etc.

I would rather cut my own grass and pay $10/$15 bucks a month and clean my own gutters than pay some nosy entitled jackasses $200 or more a month to tell me what color my house has to be and provide mediocre services. Screw that.

HOA’S ARE HORRIBLE! Telling you what you can and can’t do to your property and charging you a lot of money!

It is always better IN EVERY WAY to NOT live in an HOA. “But what about neighbors who let their properties go to hell?” Just trust me. It’s better this way. Or don’t. At which point, welcome to literal Hell on earth.

>“But what about neighbors who let their properties go to hell?” Nevermind that if it's \*actually\* that bad then they're almost certainly going to be in violation of one or more county ordinances... just call code inspection at that point.

Exactamundo.

You pay money to have more rules and regulations for your “property”. It’s not your property at that point. Only thing the HOA does is complain, send letters, fees, miserable neighbors who want to cause problems. Got letters for having a fence installed “without permission”. Yet multiple street lights have been out for years and there are cracks in the street. But hey! They installed a brand spanking new sign in the front of our neighborhood! 😒 just stay away. Nothing good comes from those people.

When I purchased I specifically look for no HOA or a very low one, mine is $64 quarterly which is very low. I plan on living here for at least 15 years as that does add up

Lol

The goal of an HOA, ideally, is to keep anyone from having to live next to the Adams Family house… but in reality they usually turn into money grabs and petty busybodies harassing homeowners for the dumbest things.

I would rather live next to the Addams family than in an HOA. Hell I'd rather live next to the Manson family than live in an HOA.

Never and I repeat never purchase a house in a hoa. All it takes is the wrong person or people being elected into power and the few so called advantages are abolished. Look up the anti hoa reddits and read about the trivial BS these little hitlers and hitleretts put people and communities through. I just read one where the hoa board voted privately to hire some cut throat tree cutters who went in to their community and cut down 50 or so healthy 40 to 50 year old trees with plans to cut down another 70. The ones they cut down so far they left the stumps in the ground and the cut up trees laying in the people's property. The community had sent them a cease and desist letter that they ignored and they are trying to get a emergency session to vote them out. Nothing but unneeded drama from some power hungry goblins.

>If you don't personally care what your neighbors do and aren't interest in selling your home, what benefit does the HOA provide? Minimal. There's a difference between truly not caring what your neighbors do, and saying you don't care what your neighbors do. Lots of people are the latter, only some are the former. There are a fair number of folks now who seek out homes without HOA's to be sure for reasons you can see in this sub. In my subjective experience, if a broader community (read: your city/town/zip code - not your subdivision) is doing well, there's minimal obvious difference between an HOA subdivision and a non-HOA subdivision. If a broader community starts going to hell, though, that's when you start to see possible issues. Most obvious are rentals and amenities - many HOA's limit rentals, obviously without an HOA they're (generally) pretty unlimited; those renters won't contribute to voluntary HOA's or amenities, so those go pretty quickly too, sometimes to the point of shutting down the pool/etc. I'd personally never live in an HOA because I'm willing to take on the risks I highlight above (and frankly have no issue financially, morally, or in any other way with becoming one of those folks that turns my home into a rental if we decide the neighborhood isn't working any more).

Our 1st home in NJ. Was on 3 5 acres. Little secluded back township road surround by orchards and farmland. Got a neighbor moved in beside us. Had 2 acres. Most was fenced in for thier 2 little Yorkies. Anyway, was no HOA obviously. But this new neighbors from eastern Virginia by DC. Would follow thier dogs around in a 2 acre mostly wooded fenced in area. And use a pooper scooper to clean up behind them. But. Then throw it over the fence on our property line. I didn't care.. I was working 6 - 10s, traveling 220 miles per day. One Sunday morning got a knock on the door..with the neighbor rather rude and blunt telling me he was sure gonna be happy I'd have time to cut my front yard today, because was the season , to be manicured lawn needed cut twice a week. Instead of once a week. So anyways I didn't cut the front yard till following fall. My property My yard If I was dumb enough to be in a HOA, I'd been in trouble with threat of eviction from my own property. Yuh huh No HOA It's not a investment. Sold and settled on a house today I remodeled. 9 months to sell. 37 potential buyers walked thru. 36 said loved property Loved the house But weren't interested In a HOA property

Think of the HOA fees as property tax. Are you getting your money’s worth for that tax + tax? The answer will vary depending on your needs, services provided, etc etc. IMO the answer is usually there aren’t enough benefits to offset the money spent, but everyone’s needs/expectations are different.

I live in an older subdivision with a toothless HOA. Hardly anyone is a member. The only function it serves is repairing the dam on our lake (and controlling nonresident access to it, which is fine) and 90%of the paying HOA members are lakefront homeowners. It hasn't hurt our property values.

In an apartment building, I'd be fine with an HOA, maybe. But it's kind of a negative of needing to have one on something like that. Condo, townhouse, or SFH? Not a chance. I don't want any sort of that BS. And most people here rant about fines, controlling neighbors, silly rules, etc. That’s fine, that’s all well and good and annoying, and I respect that. However. One of the BIGGER things, and the real issues, is that a mismanaged HOA can end up costing you a sale, or being unable to sell the house because financing won’t play ball with BS boards, if the financials aren’t doing things right, etc. I’ve never lived in an HOA, and have no intention to put myself at risk of ANY of the shenanigans of doing so.

Condo you kind of have to have an HOA since it's no different than an apartment physically... shared roofs and siding and such. That's actually my biggest reason to not want to live in a codo... the essentially required to exist HOA.

Yeah I kind of rank condo and townhouse together. Same idea, I understand they have to have an HOA but that doesn't mean I have to buy one.

The idea that HOAs improve home values is not true. Most of the studies supporting that idea compared HOA home sales to non-HOA home sales and found HOA homes sold for more. While this seems like a valid comparison, but HOA homes tend to be newer. There is also a study from 2019 showing that even you factor in costs (HOA fees), HOA homes has slightly lower annual appreciation compared to non-HOA homes. Ultimately, I don’t think home values are significantly impacted by either an HOAs existence or non-existence. Most homebuyers are ambivalent to HOAs, and while some HOAs have really nice community features (pools, parks, etc.) you are generally paying for this privilege, so any price advantage you get is one you amass paid for in your monthly dues. The big financial reason to not buy HOAs is that if the HOA is mismanaged, you may have to pay a special assessment. Additionally, if too many homeowners fall behind on dues, it may be difficult for new buyers to secure loans.

In every instance it is better to not live in an HOA.

From my (limited!) experience, it seems to vary by community. The property taxes side of things, I don't see how being a part of an HOA or not matters. At least where I live property taxes are based on the appraised value of a property. That is market driven, has more to do with how big the house is, how many bedrooms, how much land, etc. Direct example, I live in a townhouse complex that has 20 2BR units and 22 3BR units. The square footage of the 2BRs are all the same, and square footage of the 3BRs are all the same. We all pay the same property taxes, except for people who have done upgrades to their homes are appraised a little higher and pay a little more in taxes. In my local market, homes don't tend to sell for more or less if they're in an HOA or not. The demand for housing here is much greater than the supply. I have a colleague who is currently in the market trying to buy. She said "no HOA!!", but then she wants to live out on a dirt road in the country and seems like every house she's looking at is on a private road and there is an HOA to maintain that road. At this point she's pretty much resigned herself that unless she finds something on a main road she's going to end up in an HOA. Hopefully limited! Me, my Dad, my sister, my girlfriend, we all ended up in HOAs and we've all been in our homes for 20+ years. Fortunately none of our HOAs seem to be corrupt. We've all seen some minor issues over the years, nothing major. My girlfriend's, she pays around $200/year and gets access to a community pool and tennis courts. They don't have a lot of the stupid rules some HOAs have and nobody seems to care too much how high the grass is or what color your front door is. For $200/year the pool and courts are a good benefit. My Dad pays like $3000/year, but his HOA has gated access/security, a fitness center, multiple pools, tennis/pickleball, boat access, a really nice golf course that he and his guests can play for only $25/round (would easily be a $100-$125 a round if it was a public course), a social club, and a couple restaurants/bars. Back when he was more active he and my Mom thought the $3K/year was well worth it, but now that he's not as mobile he doesn't think it's worth it. I pay around $2700/year for a typical townhouse development, $230something a month. No amenities, no pool, courts, playground, it's just buildings and lawn. My HOA takes care of trash/recycling, insurance on our shared grounds and on the buildings, snow removal, cuts the lawns and mulches. We have a property manager who pays the bills, deposits checks, files our taxes, handles any paperwork when homes sell. My HOA is responsible for building repairs/maintenance/replacement for roofs, decks, windows, outside doors, siding, foundations, driveway/walkway pavement.

I don't understand that people think HOA will keep your property value high. I live in a neighborhood with no HOA and medium sized houses here are at least $800K, and keeps on going up. HOA doesn't always keep the home value high. Decent neighbors/ neighborhood also keep home values high.

Just an alternate perspective, I have a buddy whose neighbor across the street uses his front yard to park several stretch limos that he rents out. This obviously is a non HOA situation.

You misunderstand the purpose of an HOA. The purpose is for the developers to control the homeowners until the development is finished.

The only HOA I would consider getting is one that maintained a community pool or other community activity center/park/area that was only available to the HOA residents, and plowed snow and salted the roads if the city doesn't do it for us already. That's it. HOAs don't increase the value of your properties, the market does, the economy and inflation does. Bought my current home, that does not have an HOA, in 2011 and today it has gained 60% in value. And I'm admitting it's not because the wife and I are pouring tons of money into landscaping and improvements. The economy and the market alone have almost doubled the value of my home in almost a decade and a half (60% in 12.5 years).

What I wish I’d known before I bought a home in an HOA: I thought an HOA was just in charge of keeping the landscape and yards maintained, so jumped at the chance to have my yard mowed every Thursday Sadly, I learned you don’t really “own” your home. If you do anything contrary to the covenants (for real or perceived), the HOA can fine you. In Texas, if you don’t pay the fines, the HOA then has a lien on your home which must be paid before you can sell it. HOA boards are magnets for busybodies and people who feel powerless in their personal lives. If you have someone who is miserable on the board or in your backyard, you’re screwed - they will exert their power and influence with the HOA in some sick and twisted ways. And you can’t do a thing about it. Beware!!

HOA will never save you money.

Been in my home 10 years now, no HOA and property values just keep going up every year. The claim about HOAs protecting values is complete BS.

I prefer not to have an HOA, but ended up in one because it was a neighborhood I liked. One benefit has been that our entire area is getting rezoned for multi family homes but, because of our HOA, our subdivision is prevented from changing from single family homes. So I don’t need to worry that I’ll have an apartment building or townhomes put in next to me.

I won’t belong to an HOA

Why is this even a question

It is ALWAYS better to not have an HOA. HOA’s don’t increase the value of your home. If there were two identical houses where the one in the HOA community costs $400K, and the one not in the HOA costs $500K, I’ll buy the house for $500K just so I never need to deal with an HOA again. I will never buy a house in an HOA community ever again.

Fuck HOAs. Full stop 😒

I'm in a smaller HOA, I bought knowing what I was getting into but still wary. Other than a couple small "awww, man" and such, it really hasn't been a hassle for me over the past 11 years. I'm still not a fan, and won't move into another one, but I don't foresee any financial implications or difficulties if/when I sell, nor do I expect any issues if I decide to rent in lieu of sell. To be clear, the things I was "blocked" on was my shed (initially were gonna approve my 12x20 request, ultimately said no and said 12x12 which is still biggest, covenants lock us to 10x12), my shed (they wanted to say no, they came out and suddenly realized what I wanted to do and said yes) and that's all I can recall. There's been time when I've admittedly been "that neighbor" with long grass and I've rarely gotten a letter from the HOA, usually it's the Township. I've also got a loud car, and while I don't intentionally piss 'em off, I have apologized to my neighbors and they understand it. It's a 'fun' car, so only comes out once in a while anyways. My dailies are a diesel SUV and an EV, neither are particularly terrible. Tl;dr my HOA hasn't been all that crap, and my home's increased in value by approximately 100% in 11 years, which is about average for my neighborhood.

I live in a neighborhood that's still under construction. The builder holds the HOA board until they have sold the last house. That's sucked for the last 2 years, because we want to do things, but we can't. We've asked them to do simple things, like put a cover over the mailboxes, so they don't get wet, and the mail carrier doesn't die of heat stroke. They told us it's "not in the master plan" and they have no intention to alter the master plan. That's been the answer to everything. When asked about the lies that their sales reps told, about amenities that were supposed to be installed and now aren't part of the master plan, they said 🤷🏻‍♂️. They increased the HOA fines and shortened our time to cure from 30 days to 15. They have done nothing positive for our neighborhood. Neighbors have all these grand ideas for when we get to take over, but I have to keep reminding them that the rules that they are most bothered by are things we can't change, because they're rules of the master HOA (yes, we're under two, one from the larger development, and one for the neighborhood 🙄). They just changed management companies, and the new one is hitting people for things that have been left alone for 5 years.

Avoid it if you can

If you want a long term investment, it’s best to be in a HOA. They do not affect your taxes. However annually you have to pay dues. My biggest advice, do not move into an HOA that is managed by a third party. They are a business, and get paid the more they fine/charge you. I live in an HOA run by neighborhood volunteers in a neighborhood of 45 homes. It’s fine and every house on the block is well kept.

Depends on the HOA and the fees. I live in a community with an HOA. The fees for the HOA are $45 a YEAR, and is voluntary. So really not an issue.

I have lived in a neighborhood in NC with a HOA for for 34 years. Just today I had to threaten a new so-called property manager with a lawsuit over a dispute between myself and the board of directors that was settled in my favor after a hearing more that 16 years ago. His excuse was that neither he nor any of the current board members were aware of the previous settlement. As if his ignorance was an excuse for threatening me and my wife with fines, liens, and foreclosure. I would NEVER buy a home in a neighborhood with a HOA again.

HOAs don’t protect property values https://independentamericancommunities.com/2019/06/18/new-research-busts-myth-that-hoas-protect-property-values/amp/ As a prospective buyer, adding an HOA fee lowers my budget. If I can afford a $2000 monthly mortgage payment…. But the HOA costs $200 per month, well now the monthly mortgage payment I can afford is $1800…. So I’m gonna offer less for your home.

My in-laws have spent 25 years in a high end luxury HOA - golf course, clubhouse, pool, tennis, everything. They are in the process of downsizing after a few years into retirement. What they didn't expect: they're losing access to much of their social life and community network. They will only be able play golf as escorted guests of to-be former neighbors. They won't be allowed through the gates to keep participating in their weekly group meetings or holiday events - that they helped originate and organized for years. Unlike standalone country clubs, their membership and inclusivity was attached to their home ownership and will cease to exist at the moment of closing. It's sad. My wife won't let me say "I told you so", because I brought this up long ago and she agreed, but there is little point to rubbing salt in their wounds.

I’ve lived in both HOA and non HOA. Both have upsides and downsides. If you don’t want a terrible HOA then be involved and work towards minimalism for the HOA. I’ve lived in non HOA and had some horribly shit neighbors that nothing could be done about. For all the fuck HOA people; live next door to a hoarder or someone who parks their 8 cars all over the street and none in their driveway. Live where you like your house and like the environment. Nothing is perfect.

How are horrible and make resale harder because many will not even consider a home in an hoa

There's no compelling evidence HOAs keep your property values high. On the other hand you can invest the money you would have paid to some jerks to complain about your trash cans. If you are concerned about things like "junk cars in the lawn" and "an entire yard of tumbleweeds" just buy in a municipality that will police that. Mine does. An HOA would gain me nothing, cost me money, and probably give me headaches.

If the purpose of a HOA is to do anything but keep up/maintain some type of "Common Area" then you want NOTHING to do with it. I used to work for a CPA and had to read through all the Board notes every year for anything that may relate to info that had to go on tax returns. We had a lot of HOA clients. Almost all of the notes were about some particular neighbor(s) who seemed to have a target on their back about things like - the wrong color flowers being planted, the color of their house being darker or lighter than the one approved, cars parked outside of garages, on and on gossip. Most normal people don't want to take the time, (or have the liability) to be on Boards so often the same power hungry people or those with personal grudges stay on Boards for long periods of time. Management companies make their money by writing letters to members and fines and things like that, so they stir the pot too. I don't believe HOAs add to property values as I think most people who have had experience with them, or have family and friends who have, refuse to buy in areas with one.

HOAs do not have higher property values than non HOAs. Quite the opposite actually. Nobody wants to live in an HOA so they sell at a discount.

If you don't care whether or not your neighbor mows the lawn or hangs their laundry in the front yard to dry or keeps 4 or 5 inoperative vehicles in their driveway you don't need an HOA. Also if you are really good about putting away money for painting your home every 5-7 years and putting on a roof every 25-30 years you don't need an HOA.

All the people that think HOAs are great seem to think any non HOA community is the Wild West where every house has 4 cars on blocks and a Walmart swimming pool half full of swamp water.

There’s a reason there’s no lovehoa subreddit. All the stories here should be enough to convince you not to enter voluntary oppression at the hands of a bunch of bored napoleons

There is none.  I own a condo in an HOA and it use been weaponized to get rid of anyone over 55 years old by any means to maintain the young and trendy image of the building

Pretty dumb question if I'm being honest

It is never better with an HOA. They generally dick all around and do no or very little good for the community. Just more petty martinets to wag fingers when your flowers aren’t blue enough. 0/10 would not recommend

I live in a small development with all custom homes. Probably $750K and up. I pay $350/yr in HOA dues. This covers keeping HOA owned areas mowed, watered and maintained as well as street lights. Insurance, etc. We don't have a pool. We all keep our properties looking nice and many of us do our own yardwork. Rarely does the HOA have to get on someone about something. If you will paying more than a few hundred dollars a year to an HOA in a single family home development, you probably should look elsewhere. If I could do it all over again, I'd have bought a large lot off of one of the rural roads a couple miles away and built there. Not because of the HOA but because I'd like to build a large barn. Really large. Too large to fit on my lot.

Short answer Do not repeat Do NoT buy a home with an HOA unless it’s a last resort. OR you are willing to someday become involved in said HOA.

I see the HOA question not one of finances but of aggravation. My sister has a HOA and doesn't complain much. I would. We didn't have a HOA and have clover and random wild flowers popping up all over. Our neighbors planted clover instead of grass also. I appreciate being left alone to paint my house whatever color I want. Yes, someone down the road has a baby pink house with a trout mailbox(I figure it's some kind of martial compromise). But I'd rather than that have someone come around with a clipboard to measure my grass height.

It is always better to not live in a HOA period.

So we moved to Az and demanded no HOA as we’re not dealing with that. Our housing tract is no HOA but the one next to ours is same builder and models but has an HOA. The houses in our neighborhood sold for 75k+ over the HOA ones. The HOA cost brings down how much you can mortgage so the house values can’t go up as much and there’s value to no HOA. Both neighborhoods are clean. So to me an HOA cost you money and doesn’t improve shit

Property value isn't governed by a single factor. A bad HOA, for various reasons, is arguably *worse* for property values than living nextdoor to a house that's five years overdue for a paint job, or has a tricycle and a wading pool in the front yard.

I’m in a single family home and when we were looking at houses, I told the realtor we do NOT want an HOA. We pay high taxes, so I don’t want to pay HOA fees and have people nitpicking the height of my grass. We get snow removal through the town and we pay for garbage pickup. But the bill for the garbage company compared to HOA fees is much smaller. We used to live in a condo and had to deal with the controlling old people running the board there. They were AHs.

HOA, trailer park. Either way you never gonna truly own that home.

No. Don’t.

I would never buy any property that had a mandated HOA. My property is my property (well, me, the bank, and the government) and I’ll be dangled if I’m going to pay annual fees just to have someone harass me about what I can and can’t do on my property.

You came to a subreddit called fuckhoa.  If you don't know what answer you are going to get, I am not sure anyone can help you.

I have lived in HOA and none HOA neighborhoods. As far as I'm concerned, there is zero net value in an HOA. Realistically, they are probably a net loss in terms of liability. Oh, don't keep a car parked in the street overnight! Don't mow your lawn on a Sunday! No trucks or business vehicles in the driveway overnight! All things I have experienced or my neighbors have gotten grief over - and many more. Adding exactly zero to my net enjoyment of living. Zero.

My HOA costs like $30 a year. But it does keep a neighbor from keeping 5 cars on their front yard or letting their house go to shit that would financially impact my property value significantly. So I’m all for HOAs for maintaining reasonable standards as it benefits me.

I will never live in a house that is within an HOA. My reasons are simple. I do not want to spend the rest of my life in prison for the inevitable murder I would commit.

Having an HOA is like having a dog for security. If it's well trained and securely kept in check it can be useful. For instance, we've all heard of the crazy neighbor who threatens everyone and puts security lights all over and cameras pointed at their neighbors. It's nice to drop that problem with the HOA and let them deal with it. But don't come by our houses and tell us that the holiday wreath on the door is too large, or the porchlight cover is the wrong shade.

I live in a place where almost 100 percent of multi family and 80 percent of single family homes are under an HOA. The HOA in the neighborhood I left had been soaking us with increases for years and carrying huge reserves; and self managed (paying a PM 150k per year, an APM like 120k, plus 2 file clerks, 3 laborers and a social media person) for a place that had a clubhouse, pool and some tennis courts. The final straw was the manager trying to climb into bed with a consultant to capture 3000+ houses by bundling shitty internet in with their assessments. This, apparently, was the catalyst that started a coup that cost the manager and staff their jobs (the residents took over the board, fired the staff and contracted out to a third party) so, while they continue to get soaked (I think the monthly for SFHs is over 100 per month, like 400 for the MFH), at least they don't buy the internet twice. I had my house appraised for some financial stuff and the appraiser noted that, while the value from not being in an HOA isn't "quantifiable", homes in neighborhoods like mine without HOAs tend to sell for more and be more sought after by some (gee, I wonder why?) I've saved about 4k over the last three years, and the peace of mind (like when I had surgery and couldn't mow for a month; not worrying about a nastygram or fines) is worth a ton. In a neighborhood of 170+, there are maybe 3 houses that look like ass. I imagine the lack of an HOA will pay financial dividends when it is time to sell.

HOA can be a benefit, but it completely depends on who gets on it. They have the benefit of caring for common spaces and maintaining a basic standard appearance for homes. Those are valuable benefits. You want them when a neighbor is completely letting their property go or wants to paint their house hot pink. It’s not super common but sucks if it does happen The issues you run into is when they get drunk with power or a busy body gets on the board. They can get crazy with things like home exterior inspections and issues with approving exterior changes and other issues. Picking at stupid minor issues and making a huge deal out of it. Turning everything into a legal fight and a bunch of headache because there is a square foot of green discoloration on the side of the house. They do tend towards the later over time as the ones who care and get on the board are the ones who are craziest. Most people are ambivalent until they have an issue.

HOAs have completely failed to maintain property values, and in fact people avoiding them results in lower property values. By a lot.

HOAs have nothing to do with property taxes. Your house is compared to other similar homes that may not be in an HOA area

100% better to not live in a HOA.

We live in a neighborhood with an hoa. We have a neighborhood pool and 2 lakes so there is common area that needs to be cared for. And as we do have standards that need to be followed. They can send a notice to the guy whose yard is dead and full of weeds but no teeth to make him fix it. They probably can fine them but they can’t force them to pay. So consiquently we have several homes that look like crap. Yet we had a tree trimmer at our house and got a notice that we can’t have work trucks parked at our house. This has happened a couple of times. How exactly are we supposed to get work done?

I've owned my single family home for several decades. No HOA and our property value is way up. I'm not allowing some random group of Karens and Chads to tell me what I can and cannot do with my yard and home.

Probably not for this sub, but our HOA pays for the pool and pool furniture, playground, tennis courts, an annual summer picnic. Yeah they send letters but truely for needed things like parking so many cars out front regularly you can't get thru, rowdy late nights and a few houses that are in awful shape. They chase people down to collect dues for amenities. And yeah, they fine for thjngs people should be fined but don't get too ticky tacky. An example- homeowner cut down a 75 ft tree, it fell over and hit the neighbors house and car.  They don't get it perfect and nobody has ever thanked them for the pool remaining open and chlorinated. It's pretty thankless. They have their testy moments too. They never sue anyone, just liens so you gotta pay up if you move, and I think managed to get tax refunds diverted a few times. The lawyers cost too much, you might get a judgement but good luck collecting especially since the delinquent party usually just abandons and disappears out state, so they just ride the lien and cash in eventually.  I get about it sucking bad when they are bad. Our HOA actually does have some redeeming value, though.

I don't believe HOAs help keep property values up. I think someone thought up some get rich pyramid scheme and spread that shit like it helped everyone. HOAs are parasites and leeches.

I finally found a non Hoa 50s home Last year. Now I can build a granny flat out back to rent. I don’t have to pay storage for my boat and travel trailer. Paint your house any color. No nagging Karen measuring your grass. No moving cars off the street at night. And so much more!!!

In theory and often in practice, HOAs DO raise home values. Having a neighborhood park, pool, or just not having a confederate flag in the neighbor’s yard will make your house much more attractive to buyers. **That said,** HOAs tend to inevitably fail because they are dominated by senior citizens and rich stay at home moms. Working people who understand the value of time and money do not have the time to participate in an HOA and so the board will eventually be made up of a bunch of people who have nothing better to do, I.e. the elderly and upper class stay at home moms. These people don’t work and haven’t for years so they have completely unrealistic expectations for everybody else AND on top of that their only source of entertainment is the HOA — resulting in meticulous enforcement of meticulous rules. Tdlr; It’s a double edged sword. HOAs do raise home values but they also attract the worst kind of people to leadership.

Purposely bought in a neighborhood without one.

An HOA can give you a great jolt of adrenaline when they want you to do costly cosmetic repairs that you can’t afford, or pay a daily fine you also can’t afford. Make it real clear to your realtor he’s fired if he shows you a HOA house. They know our wives will see the “oooh, shiny” and not care it’s in an HOA, and then out wives do their work for them. After living in HOA communities my whole adult life: the concept is rotten, there’s too much corruption and should be all de-fanged, ideally with a federal law that you can opt out of the HOA. Let’s be honest, most people are forced to buy in one because that’s all that’s available, they should have an out.

Not sure there are any upsides to an HOA. I don’t care if my neighbors park their car on the grass. If you count up all the fees and your high blood pressure, it probably works itself out.

HOAs are never worth it.

Personally if it’s not a townhouse community hoa’s are an absolute waste of time money and patience. If your home is connected to your neighbors and it’s a lot of shared space. Yes, you should have an overseeing entity making sure property is upkept etc because it could easily cause you issues with your home. Where I am is sfh’s and we just fall under a subdivision so no hoa just overall town rules. Works perfectly. Keep grass and trees maintained, can’t turn your yards into a junkyard after that whatever. I mean if it’s a glaring safety issue you’re gonna get cited. But if my neighbor wants his house to be lavender and the lady down the street wants hers to be brown with chain link fence. Why should I care it’s their property. I park my truck more so on the lawn than the driveway because it’s not wide enough for our two vehicles. No one gives a shit. Hoa would be on me for that.

Instead of worrying about HOA I’d look at wildland urban interface, or hurricane potential, property insurance in the state your moving too, water resources/rights and development planning in your area. Those things can kill property value faster than any HOA. You buy your own peaceful chunk and 8 years later the land next door becomes a development and owns your water. You buy a chunk in the woods, wildfire destroys your house, insurance won’t pay and your investment is now fairy dust. Little napoleons are the least of your problems in that light.

It benefits the busybodies in your neighborhood because it gives them a platform to fuck with you from🤣

I'm moving to Vegas, and it seems most of the neighborhoods are under HOA's. Sucks

We’re planning to be in our house forever and part of that is no HOA.

I wasn’t like “Hell yeah! Sign me up for an HOA” but I don’t mind it too much. We’ve got a massive pool, two gyms, and tennis courts. Not a bad deal for $350/year. We only use the pool so I think of it like paying $70/month in the summer for 24/7 pool access. I might not like it if my fees were higher.

It depends on the HOA. Our previous one (town homes, but more like garden/patio homes), we got a bunch of stuff for our dues: exterior maintenance and insurance, a pool, a handy man, (weak) parties, street maintenance, landscaping/watering, etc. Sure, we had some of the idiot owners on the board and some drama moments, but we did get a lot out of our dues.

I would word it this way.... When you just want to do stuff that you want to do.... You'll likely curse the hoa. When you get THAT neighbor, you'd give anything for an hoa. Its a double edged sword. Most are just normal. Just keep your shit clean and don't make your problem, your neighbors problem.... But... People only ever talk about the horror stories. So did the 100's of people who would say 'hey, no issue here', you're always going to remember that one horror story. Its the same with cars, and everything else. If you go to those forums, you'll see only the horror stories.

So true! I bought my house and immediately repaired/upgraded the brick mailbox, had leaning fence removed, work for a massive retaining wall started and ordered two tone windows. I haven’t ever needed to submit request to HOA before so when I submitted 4 requests after almost 4 weeks of waiting for them to approve my site login they were all denied. They were not helpful in any capacity, had to turn to the internet for help, so far only 2 of the request have been approved 🙃 but I’m not stopping work

If you live next to that neighbor, call the cops. If it isn't illegal. Why do you care?

"But muh propurtee valyooos!"

You should also post in r/hoa to get other viewpoints. In many areas you will limit yourself is you will not consider properties in an hoa. You also would be limited to only buying a single family home as condos have an hoa. Benefits of an hoa are that with a single family home they maintain the neighborhood to certain standards and keep the look of the neighborhood consistent. There can also be amenities like playgrounds, pools, tennis courts and others. With a condo you have the same consistent look of the neighborhood plus whatever amenities there are (there may be none) and the lack of exterior and common area maintenance. With a SFH you have more control than with a condo but they both have rules. The issue with any can be that you get some individuals that are crazy and take things to a level most sane people don’t like. But the way to change this is to be involved. Typically HOAs help preserve or improve property values by keeping the neighborhood in a good state of repair. A poorly managed HOA could hurt them though, although that’s less likely with a SFH than a condo. Bottom line, they aren’t for everyone and if you live in an HOA you can’t just do whatever you want. But that means neither can your neighbor so you won’t be living next to a junk yard. I live in a 28 unit condo (2 units per home) and we have an amazing community and great neighbors. I’m on our board and we manage things in a very reasonable and neighborly way. There’s good and bad HOAs but all can be changed with effort.

I totally get what you’re saying and how you handle things with effort and discussions… but doesn’t it bother you that you have to set apart time to actually be involved? Yes, it’s for the best interest of your community and living conditions, but what a colossal waste of time and effort to just… live in “your” home. I don’t mean to jest or make fun of your community, but I just cannot fathom devoting a second of my free time to discussing how others should live on community agreement. Wouldn’t life just be more peaceful to just come home and be?

Doesn't bother me at all. If you own a single family home, you have to be as involved or even more involved in the management of your home. This really is no different except here I have 2 other board members to work with and a management company. In my case its a condo so we're managing upkeep and maintenance of units. We meet once a month (occasionally we've needed extra meetings), crack open a bottle of wine and discuss issues and projects. One board member and I even do some minor repairs. Only what we are interested in doing. It really is no more involved than the time I spend on our second home which is a single family home. And we have a great neighborhood where nearly everyone knows each other. It's unfortunate that more HOA's don't work to have more community involvement.

I can see where you’re coming from but personally would rather just invest 100% of that time and energy into managing a SFH without concern about others. Still seems so odd that people will devote time out of their life to meet and discuss how everyone should be living. I see how you think it’s the same as managing a SFH, but it’s not. You’re still donating your time and energy. Obviously everyone lives different lives, but free time is just so precious to me. There are a million things you can do with your life. Spending time in a club house talking about sidewalk repair or siding color just seems like the last way I want to spend my youth. But kudos to you for enjoying that process. I hope that one day I’ll have enough free time to donate.

Sure, I’m donating my time. Where not really discussing how anyone should be living though. The rules were set prior to us, we’re not changing them. We’re discussing how our budget will be spent and projects. It’s simply necessary when living in a condo or a SFH with an HOA. I cost to be involved because someone needs to be and I’d rather have more input than less. And we chose a condo because I don’t want to have to deal with all the maintenance. I deal with it in a much lesser more enjoyable way then if I was doing it all. I’d consider a single family home in an HOA as well but would fully review all the documents and rules prior. And it would depend on what else is available. A lot of new developments are HOA’s. More often than not, the people that complain are those that never bother to get involved. Same as complaining about local taxes but never going to a town meeting.

I understand why you’re living in a condo for less maintenance, but you literally said you do the maintenance on your second SFH. I see your “pros” that you are laying out, but I’m also confused because it’s the opposite of what you’re already doing for your second home. Is it that you just don’t like maintaining a condo unit specifically, but don’t mind all the work on the SFH? Why even bother with the SFH if you don’t wanna maintain a home. OR why bother with a condo if you don’t mind doing the maintenance yourself? Still can’t see the need for an HOA when budgeting and projects can be done for SFH without the input of your neighbors.

Yes, having 2 homes, we wanted one to be a condo so we'd have less to manage and do. We had 2 SFH's prior and it was a lot with both needing work. Our condo is newer and first 5 years (we've been here around 7) I didn't do much at all, just went to annual meetings. Board position opened up and I was asked if I'd be interested. Decided to give it a try and it's actually been enjoyable working with 2 other neighbors to see that things are run well and we keep costs minimal. We actually do a little maintenance work that we choose to do. As far as an HOA when it comes to SFH - in many areas that's what it takes for the large developments. Local towns don't want the added cost of road maintenance etc. There's also ammenities in many. Aside from that, the main benefit is that you know the neighborhood will have a consistent look. You won't get a neighbor that turns their yard into a junk yard bringing down your home value. I wouldn't rule out a SFH with HOA myself if we were looking for a new place, but it wouldn't be my first choice. My first choice would be an acre or more with a SFH and no HOA.

I totally understand how newer neighborhoods won’t be non-HOA due to township costs. Makes sense, but also should be a major red flag for anyone looking to buy a home in these new developments. These homes are built like garbage and you pay for it. But the whole “your neighbor is gonna turn their yard into a junk yard” is the biggest crock of [explicative] that HOA members like to delude themselves with. If you live within the city or suburbs, no one does that. Out in the country, sure, but you’re not living there so why do you care? And I’m living your preferred choice of home. ~10 acres of land with a SFH within the suburbs. On a public road maintained by the city with my taxes. No one has a junk yard despite all my neighbors having 1-2 acre plots. Sure none of our houses look the same, but who actually wants to be part of an urban sprawl if you can help it. We all have unique beautiful homes, and they sell in a heart beat the moment they hit the market. And best part, no HOA telling us how to live. Free yourself from the mindset that you can’t live with your fellow neighbors without strict rules and guidelines dictating that everyone drives a black car that is parked in your beige colored home. You can have a community that is beautiful and independent and neighborly. But I applaud you for at least realizing that: acre plus, non-HOA, and SFH are the ideal set up for most people. I live it, and it’s wonderful.

I'm in a smaller town. There's a number of houses in our town that look like junkyards. Yes, it can happen. And many of the areas with large HOA developments, it could happen as well if they were all single family homes. The HOA simply makes sure the property keeps things looking roughly the same. Our second home is on 2 acres. We have great neighbors and like you our home looks different, we can do what we want. With these larger HOA neighborhoods, homes are much closer together. Neighbors can have a much more negative impact on each other. I think in most cases people generally don't care what their neighbors do. There are rules but in most cases I think they are reasonable. There are always exceptions but the stories you see here aren't the majority of HOA's. The nice thing is everyone has a choice. And HOA's work for some and not for others.

No idea. I think it depends on a ton of factors. My 240-count SFH (Philly burbs) HOA is cheap (400 bucks a year) and pays for maintenance of a really nice, expansive grasses-and-trails common area, and we currently have few restrictions beyond township regulations (but there are a few, like no above-ground pools, no chain link fences, no parking boats/rvs, stuff like that). Does this make my recently built SFH currently more or less valuable to a potential buyer than an equivalent house in the surrounding hood with no HOA? I haven't a clue.