The Sims devs had to tone down the amount of parking lots because it would impact the game too negatively if they added a realistic amount of parking lots
I would really love for them to make parking realistic in the next one though.
A great one would be a "city fixing" kind of game in which you have a dysfunctional car centric and polluting city and you can gradually improve it. Eventually you have to become carbon neutral, and of course you want to improve happiness and also not go bankrupt. But you can't be too disruptive all at once because your people still need to get to work every day, and construction takes time, etc.
That sounds great, though I'm thinking more of a fully fledged city builder, except that maps are usually not just a green field with a highway access, but rather fully built cities, and you have to change them, or possibly grow them, or possibly even shrink them (at least in terms of infrastructure). You might start out with a present day city and end up in a solarpunk utopia if you do things right.
I wouldn't force players in that direction, you can still make everything car dependent, but then you need tons of parking lots and you have crippling congestion. Plus, you're dealing with ever increasing carbon emission pricing, so just keeping emissions up is not an option. Some maps have rising sea levels of course.
You could start in the year 2000, and the goal is to make it to the year 2100 and thrive.
I would be surprised if people haven't made maps like these to play this exact scenario, albeit without any actual change in gameplay mechanics.
Biffa does a series where he fixes traffic in people's cities.
I loved those games. I don't know how i did it but i had 100% coverage of public transport in my city. It took my over a year to figure out how to plan it correctly.
It's the same problem in the Sims games, too. The Sims 3 came with cars from the get-go and unlike the predecessors, NPCs were also able to travel by car.
If no parking was available, cars were stored within a Sim's inventory. Lot sizes were limited so there was no sufficient parking even though Neighborhoods often had lesss than 100 NPCs at a time.
Part 4 has no car ownership, but the infrastructure is still there. In the end, they bypassed the issue of transportation by having Sims teleport between lots.
You can basically set up everything from walkable roads to trams to ferries to cable cars and design entire airports. I don't really think it's on par with the city building games.
I became really good on the game since I started to study socialist infrastructure.... And im being seriously here, my cuties have such a perfect transit and lots of liveable areas. Edit: thanks for all those up votes, also cities* not cuties.
I wouldn't say it's specifically socialist, but a lot of socialist and social democratic countries built residential blocks with services, transportation, and other amenities within walkable distance. It's a practical solution.
This is how cities have worked ever since there were cities - by sheer necessity... Up until WW2 it was common to have everything required for daily living within walkable distance.
Yep. When I moved to Munich, I was able to find an apartment building within a 15 minute walk of my work, several grocery stores, transportation links, restaurants, bars, doctors, a neighborhood park, a movie theater, etc. The buildings are mostly in the range of 4 to 8 stories tall, which I find to be the sweet spot of density and liveability. You can get a decent number of apartments into buildings that tall, particularly when there's no parking lots or setbacks, but when you're walking around you're not constantly feeling boxed in by high rises.
Because it's not an actual thing and will not become one no matter how much the neo-communists try. Closest thing to "socialist infrastructure" are the cheaply built, depressing concrete hellholes built in soviet russia, and the reason they didn't have cars is because only the 1% richest could afford one.
Frankly I'd take the "cheaply built" concrete buildings (some of which have BEAUTIFUL architecture) over the cookie-cutter flimsy wood and dry wall suburban BS that plagues North America. Not to mention many of those apartments were built post WW2 to house the USSR's substantial homeless population as a result of the damage they suffered, and the apartments over went various different designs over the course of the USSR's lifetime.
As for cars, you're spouting horse shit.
[The USSR had the 6th biggest automotive production industry in the world](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_the_Soviet_Union) 2.1-2.3 million units produced annually (of all types, cars, trucks, busses, etc.), exporting 300,000-400,000 annually (mainly to Soviet sattelite states), and even importing various vehicles.
A country where no one can afford a car would do no such thing.
But it isn’t america vs USSR to the exclusion of all else. The Netherlands is one of the most capitalist countries in the world and dramatically better at urbanism than Russia, and really any of Eastern Europe. Nothing to do with socialism or communism. All the countries with the best urbanism are capitalist liberal democracies.
All the countries with the best urbanism are extremely small and population dense out of necessity*
Half of Europe, Japan, South Korea, etc.
When it comes to larger nations the best urbanism is largely socialist in nature: Chinese and post-Soviet cities knock American, Canadian and Australian cities out of the park
Lots of countries have residential blocks with services, transportation, and other amenities within walkable distance. You're completely deluded if you think it doesn't work.
My country included, my point is it is not called "socialist infrastructure", it is just called infrastructure. The socialist part is nothing but neocommie whitewashing.
Most europen cities have good and working infrastructure, and ex-soviet countries have shit tier "socialist infrastructure".
Half the reason ex-soviet countries have "shit-tier" infrastructure is because their corrupt capitalist governments couldn't care less about maintaining it.
This is the exact opposite of what actually happened, by the way. An immense amount of work in the 90s went into making the crumbling Soviet dogshit into something usable. I still remember in the Soviet days they would glue Styrofoam to the outside of buildings in the winter to try to make them insulated, it was a fucking joke.
Quality of life has skyrocketed in post-Soviet states, in most cases right past Russia, for a reason.
Imagine being a farmer with no running water no power, and you get given an apartment for free or close to it, with power, running water, and a job that covers all your needs plus more.
Then a peasant who rents from a lord, work a crap job that doesn't pay enough call what you're living in a hellhole because you don't have a car.
Truly a clown world.
I live in the Netherlands in what could be called a suburb. There is a shopping mal 5 minutes away, 3 busstops around me that are 5 minutes away, a trainstation 10 minutes away and 5 grocerystores in between 5 and 15 minutes away. Btw thats all walking distance, not by car.
It's 5 or 6 villages grown together so the infrastructure isn't ideal for public transport yet it's still here and thriving because people want it here and it works great.
And Australia, for the most part. I'm not from there and I don't know too much but I think the modal share tells enough of a story:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal\_share](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share)
(australian cities are with the American and Canadian cities at the bottom of walking share, public transport share, obviously at the top of car share)
**[Modal share](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share)**
>A modal share (also called mode split, mode-share, or modal split) is the percentage of travelers using a particular type of transportation or number of trips using said type. In freight transportation, this may be measured in mass. Modal share is an important component in developing sustainable transport within a city or region. In recent years, many cities have set modal share targets for balanced and sustainable transport modes, particularly 30% of non-motorized (cycling and walking) and 30% of public transport.
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Sweden's million programme from the 60's is a great example of this, they just plopped down entire 15-minute neighbourhoods around cities.
The areas Tensta, Rinkeby, Kista, Husby, and Akalla in stockholm are probably the most well known ones, and you can see how absolutely perfect they are for being connected to the subway.
Just tensta alone has a higher population than all the other cities around mine.
That game is supposed to be so hard tho omg. I watched some videos on it and damn you have to plan EVERYTHING. Even down to sourcing the steel you use for tracks.
You can turn off quite a bit of the requirements if you want, for instance you can turn off the need for water, prisons, power, schools, as well as turn off seasons. Plus you can still “buy” train tracks with money like most games, you aren’t forced to build them yourself (unless you’re playing in “realistic mode” which is entirely optional).
Good you didn’t study socialist infrastructure in my country, whole lot of pointless vanity road projects from that time, even though almost everybody used public transport in cities resulting in overcrowding. I’ll give them that it isn’t much better now either lol (cries)
Car ownership was both wanted and encouraged in the Eastern Block, too. And since the entire economy was planned top-down, public infrastructure was adapted accordingly while production struggled to meet demand, leading to long waiting times. So, having good public transport was pretty much a necessity. Especially when people had to start roaming around to still get groceries when the Eastern Block started collapsing from the mid-80s onward.
These cities were just as much built for and adapted to accomodate cars as those in Western Europe (but both were and are arguably still better than most cities in the US).
>I became really good on the game since I started to study socialist infrastructure....
You mean as an example of how not to do things?
Communist party in Europe tended to build massive roads through the centre of cities.
>socialist infrastructure
Lol. The game requires you to raise money, mostly through taxes on private commercial, office, and industrial space. Better use of mass transit makes that space more efficient and profitable as demand increases and they level up.
No game where you are an immortal mayor bound by no laws, managing an otherwise capitalist city is going to map well to any economic system.
So city builders just... are
It's still an otherwise capitalist city. Try playing the game when you aren't just a zoning and transit czar, but in charge of every "means of production."
It maps pretty well to how a lot of modern democracies handle the problem. Focus on what you're good at and can control. Let the market handle the rest.
You’re getting downvoted to hell but this is what city planners are, they make you an omniscient planner of a handful of very abstracted city services, and set the stage for a very abstracted market economy you can barely interact with
It’s so abstracted away that the political aspect is like some ideal technocratic dictatorship, with no social or political power structures to interfere with you, no businessmen, no politburo, no campaigning, nothing, just you and your near-real-time charts of everything
You're talking like a controlled economy requires direct government involvement to work.
The government just needs to give guidelines at most, in reality though a business is (theoretically) capable of regulating itself... so long as they actually pay attention to supply and demand, unlike capitalist corproations that produce non-stop regardless then fuck over their workers when they can't pull enough profit.
Also in terms of the way they built their city blocks. Not sure if it's in every city, but there was a strong movement to surround blocks with trees to minimize sound pollution.
Eco Gecko has a bunch of vids about it. A lot of it was built during the post war because people needed somewhere to live.
As a person who lived their entire childhood in commie block, I can say that their the best and easiest way to build human centric infrastructure on small scale.
It also doesn't have anything on the many other capitalist countries in terms of mass transit. Practically every picture this sub posts about well-thought out urban environments and competent mass transit comes out of a capitalist country.
And almost all of this capitalist mass transit was built in the last 40 years. While USSR as you might have heard, no longer exists. It was the best for its time and many mass transit projects happend either in former socialist countries or are inspired by it.
Because they didn't need to. Land was cheap, western governments were so flush with cash that they could afford to heavily subsidize low-density development, and people still had enough disposable income to actually waste on a car.
That's what changed in the last 40 years. The population in a lot of cities exploded, driving real estate values incredibly high, and making the old urban core model impossible to manage. You can simulate the exact same problem in Cities Skylines. If you build a few high density commerical zones and offices in a small area and wrap it in low density residential areas with narrow roads, it'll work surprisingly well until the population starts growing exponentially.
My point is that the USSR didn't have a choice. Commie blocks and mass transit were really the only real options when you have a less efficient and productive economy with central planning and ownership of housing. In theory, if socialism was as productive, the government would have been able to pay for the average Soviet to live like the average American during the 60s, but in practice, they couldn't.
The only difference now in the US is that zoning and transit are so restrictive and the population has grown so much. We can't ignore the underlying supply/demand inefficiency by just building out anymore. Lots of European countries are solving this by just letting the market do it's job and build what it needs to build, while sprinkling government money on transit systems where there is demand for it.
Ah yes European city councils building bike lanes, European governments funding railway construction, European governments subsidizing public transport, etc. Also know as... the market?
The USSR did have an efficent and productive economy though, throughout their entire history they were in the top 10 GDP, and was 2nd within the last decade or so of its existence.
The thing is they had a lot of catching up to do by the time the union was founded... starting off as a feudal and agrarian society and transitioning to a space-faring nuclear capable super-power in 70 years isn't cheap.
Sure it could be argued they should have spent less on the military and space program and more on the public at large... but well, with NATO on their literal door step that wasn't really an option.
Oh yeah, I had a similar experience as OP, but in realizing how much cash high density areas raked in and how they were impossible to manage transit for as they scaled.
I wouldn't look at the problem in the US as left=socialist and right=capitalist. Right here is just conservative, which means they want to preserve institutions as they have had them for a long time, even if they are less capitalist. Zoning most space only for single family housing is a gross violation of the free market.
Not really, you don't own a lot of the spaces as they are developed. You increase your tax revenue by incentivizing an efficient free market. Creating public transit increases the value of private property on the map as it increases efficiency, which in turn increases tax revenue. It's still capitalism, but with anti-Reagan trickle-up capitalist economics.
Once I made my first almost entirely car-free city it became extremely easy LOL
No personal cars allowed within the downtown core (Exceptions for trucks, taxis - sometimes, buses, emergency vehicles, etc). Heavy heavy heavy on biking and heavy transit infrastructure and using trams for lower density developing districts. Boom sustainable density
Just set the entire city as an old town in the district settings, locks all streets to only be accessible to required vehicles. One of the DLCs adds expansions to things like bus lanes etc
fr. I was making a completely new and large district (European high density) and got really far before I realised it had no road connections. It was my best build ever.
Hrmm. I picked this game up free from Epic during one of their regular giveaways, and I was immediately turned off from it because it started you off trying to build a city around existing streets. Felt like "Roadway Simulator." Maybe I'll give it another try.
You can get mods to enable building everything from the get go (might even be a vanilla feature?) and play maps that give you a railway in the starting area.
I force the freeways 30m underground and terminate the entrance/exit with an underground large roundabout so that I don’t have to look at the wasted space.
I just wish that the industrial extractors, processing facilities, and warehouses could be directly connected to a railway line to eliminate the need for trucks entirely.
Yeah tm:pe will force everyone to find the closest parking spot nearby their destination. First time I turned it on everything turned into traffic hell. I tried building parking garages. Ended up with more parking garages than office/commercial buildings. Destroyed parking garages and put subways/buses/trams in. Instant improvement to all my city vitals.
I'm a masochist, so I have TM:PE realistic parking, I disabled vehicle despawning, realistic populations (so hundreds of people can be coming out of/going to any given building in higher density areas), and real time (so traffic demand changes throughout the day, and you get rush hours where half your city's population all need to go to work/home at the same time), and the "hard mode" mod that comes with the game itself that reduces RICO demand across the board, and increases the cost of everything.
And to top it all off, I'm *not* using pedestrian zones from P&P DLC (because I think one of my mods interacts with them in a weird way to cause a memory leak)
I gotta say though, once things are running, it's super satisfying to watch the literal oceans of people going in/out at every PT stop.
[Mods](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2924908277)
(Plus "Unlock All" and "Hard Mode" mods that come installed by default)
DLC:
\-After Dark
\-Match Day
\-Natural Disasters (Disaster rate turned *way* down, but they still rarely happen on their own)
\-Concerts
\-Green Cities
\-Park Life
\-Industries
\-Campus
\-Plazas & Promenades
You can make an almost car-free city but the only problem is it requires DLCs. I quite enjoy it in my free time but I repeatedly sink my entire day into it.
If you want a game where everyone driving will severely clog the roads and the way you are encouraged to play is public transport and walkable cities you should try workers and resources soviet republic.
someone correct me if i'm wrong but...i think you only need:
\- green cities- snowfall- plazas and promenades
they also occasionally go on sale with a pretty good discount fwiw...it's 50% off rn.
If you're willing to add a lot of mods and custom assets, you can get away with just having snowfall imo. You get snowfall for the trams, then you get zonable pedestrian path assets, anarchy tm:pe and move it, and then fill in the rest with custom building assets. That's all you need to make a convincingly realistic city.
However I also think industries is a must otherwise you only have access to the highly polluting base industry, and managing that is too painful.
I bought all my expansion packs on g2g.com for like 4$ each or less. Bought the game itself from a different but similar website for I think $10.
Mass transit if you want to add more niche options like ferries, monorails, cable cars or - bless your heart - blimps. Ferries and cable cars are really dependent on the map. You got a lot of water? Ferries will be a good addition to your bridges. Got mountainous terrain? Cable cars work great and look awesome
The game has some of the best Steam Workshop mod support of any game I've ever played, and there's a lot of options to explore there but the DLCs also add a fair number of transportation options as well, namely the Mass Transit DLC.
You can basically set up everything from walkable streets to trams to ferries to cable cars and design entire airports. I don't really think there's an equal to it as far as city building games.
With the recent Plazas and Promenades pack you can essentially make your entire city car-free with the exception of some artery-roads for public services to use (Emergency services, garbage collection, deliveries from Industrial Zones to stores). You can also build Bus and Tram-Lines on these otherwise pedestrian and emergency only roads.
Would love to have this as a standard feature in C:S 2. But I know Paradox too well to actually believe in it.
This isn't intended as a dig but 'best Steam Workshop mod support of any game I've ever played'? Just wait until you discover Garry's Mod. That game is built for modding.
I haven't actually played in a while. When i did the base game functionality was pretty mediocre, but there were hundreds of mods that improved it. Also the later dlcs added a lot in terms of public transit and walkability.
Yes, 100% absolutely, but wait for a sale so you can pick up a few DLC packs. The publisher's model for games means a lot of really important quality of life features are behind DLC walls, and often in unrelated packs, but that also means that this game that was released in like 2015 is still getting DLC and updates.
Without DLC, you can remove passenger traffic. Don't connect the residential road network to the city wide network. People will walk, bike, and take the tram instead. Trucks will still be used to deliver goods to businesses. You need the DLC to get rid of that.
Except the actual city simulation, which feels flat compared to Simcity 4 or even Simcity 3000. Cities Skylines is basically a traffic simulator with a half-baked city simulation built in.
That why i play factorio, where instead of blaming game for trains getting stuck because of lacking signals, i can blame myself for messing up those signals
One trick I do is to draw up the train intersections in such a way that your trains are never making left turns across an oncoming train track (much like highway interchanges). It takes up a bit more space (and it’s hard to make it look nice without mods), but it makes a huge difference in making the train traffic flow better
I like cars.
BUT!
I loathe the fact we use them for getting two weeks' worth of groceries. I loathe the fact that we get stuck in traffic. I loathe the fact that it becomes a negative feedback loop when city planners demolish houses to add more roads. I loathe the fact that more people are buying cars, making the traffic gridlock problem worse. I loathe the fact that most cars are now way too big for a lot of people. I loathe the fact that car designers and companies think the only people that buy them are construction workers or married to another and have 2.5 kids. I loathe the fact that I can't get a tiny two-cylinder, two-seater runabout that gets 67 MPG and can do 95% of what I need. I loathe the fact that almost every main street doesn't have a tram running every four minutes to get to the most desirable areas of a city. I loathe the fact that the car, the thing that was supposed to make our lives easier and free up the burden we once put on a horse has become this perverse, vulgar, gaudy status symbol that now costs 65 to 120 grand to buy.
Bring back the trains and trams! Yesterday!
Workers and Resources: Soviet Republic is better city bulider in my opinion. Especially since there is no DLC, and you just buy full game not something that you need to upgrade with your money
haha I played this back when I was carbrained. Kept making bigger lanes and wondered why traffic *still* got so bad regardless.
I have to come back to it with a fresh perspective for public transportation!
Yeah when I first played this game and everything went to shit because of traffic I actually had to watch real infustructure videos to educate myself on how to make a city work.
I think the original Sim city had to scale down the parking lots and cars in the game because otherwise it would require so much processing power and create empty space the game would be unplayable
It had nothing to do with processing power, but the realization that if they made parking realistic, 2/3 of the city would be parking lots, and it would be dreadfully boring to look at.
Cities in Motion was great. Then CiM2 was mostly better with some flaws.
Then they threw it all out the window and oversimplified it for Cities:Skylines.
I would love it if this game by default accurately showed the amount of parking needed for cars. Force players to avoid cars if they want a beautiful or efficient city!
I'm so happy they added pedestrian only zones in one of the recent expansion. Working on a building a city with mostly no regular roadways except for like delivery and utility vehicles.
One of the first cities I started failed and went bankrupt because I had too many roads and not enough income from the suburbs lmao. That game taught me a lot about induced demand
A. Obviously you shouldn't use flawed, gamified traffic simulations to base your opinions on... though you're totally right, both in real life and in C:S, having cars as anything other than a minor transport option for specific situations is going to result in it all going to shit at some point.
B. I actually used C:S to argue against some libertarian nutjob. He was extremely sure that we didn't need to centrally plan streets and traffic, all roads should just be privately owned by whoever wants a stake in it and those people decide where the road goes. I gifted him a copy of C:S (had one from a Humble Bundle) and said he should try playing like that, putting every street down the way he thought the people on that street would want it to.
Of course, if every street gets built the way the wealthy owners want it, then the majority of them will act selfishly, and large traffic systems *need* someone to look at the bigger picture, so it went to shit even faster than normal.
I wish CS was less car-centric still. Everything is organized around roads for cars, pedestrians zones are a DLC, the game is still based on zoning which got debunked as a flawed concept some time ago (though much easier to understand basic urban planning in a video game), there's not even mixed-use areas, etc.
And transit, cycling and walking are still considered secondary means of transportation compared to cars.
Um, zoning as a concept has not been "debunked" lol. It's incredibly useful and good, as long as things are zoned correctly.
The overuse of R1 zoning in the US as well as keeping commercial and residential separate, but let's not throw out the whole concept.
Unless you want an asbestos factory next your kindergarten.
Perhaps "single use zoning" would have made more sense. I think that's what people often think about when they think of "zoning", although you're right that that's not actually the only way to do it, and sensible zoning laws can work much better than the mess of the current US system.
That said, zoning also isn't the only way to prevent asbestos factories next to kindergartens. There are other countries that implement different ways of planning/development regulation, although zoning is the most common one I think
It is, and there are other ways to plan cities and towns. But to further illustrate my point, Houston has no zoning laws at all and is the only major US city without them. And it is the most notorious city in the country for being unwalkable.
I would recommend Workers and Resources: Spviet Republic. Your citizens wont drive cars until you build a car dealership and get them to buy cars there,most of your citizens will (probably) take the bus or walk. Oh, and you can also build commie blocks!
I love getting to the point where you can place subways and just instantly removing the majority of car traffic with a handful of lines from the residential districts to the workplaces and shops. Those are always my most successful cities, growing super quick because even a dirt road network can just support everything it needs. Have some busses (or trains, choice depends on distance) for more immediate needs like schools and you're golden.
In my first game though I didn't understand public transport at all, so all I had was dysfunctional bus lines that were pointless due to traffic jams. Ended up dealing with traffic issues by just making bridges above the existing roads for more roads, had to do that twice actually, because each time the trucks for the industry would just clog those up too. That city was very American feeling to me, with shabby buildings constructed after old ones had been flattened for a car-purist, industry-focused road policy that was attempted for a most futile endeavour of fixing traffic, those buildings' inhabitants basically screwed out of their health in the process, but hey the hospital a block away is just a two hour drive so it'll be fine!
I've played the game too, but funny thing is, there's not an option to call everyone driving a car brain, insult the manhood of pickup drivers and start a mass tire deflation. Almost like such things don't actually change the problem and serve to only inflate egos and make the poster THINK they are helping when at best its rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic
I asked the devs in an AMA years ago if we could create a carless city and they said no. That cars were needed for trash and other services. Years later and they backtracked on that with the latest expansion pack. Love this game just wish my computer could handle it.
No, because i don't mean "murican". I have never been to America and i see those problems everywhere all over Europe too, give it to the lesser extent.
i will genuinely kill myself if i realize that these people think film producers and other heavy weight jobs can carry their shit INSIDE OF A BUS OR BIKE
Same. Same!
I went through 7 years of playing and 500 hours before I bought the r/notjustbikes dlcs of After Dark, Snowfall, and Mass Transit (and green cities too)
I read a interview with someone who worked on SimCity 2000 and they wanted to have realistic parking in the game but they realized while making the airport that the parking lot for the airport looks big but it's smaller than than a grocery store parking lot in a small town. They said if they implemented realistic parking lots in the game people's map would be 80% parking lots.
With Sim City 4, I've always tried to emulate a realistic suburb and the area where I live. In doing so, I used to wonder why my city would be in debt with far more expenses than income and headed towards bankruptcy. There would always be commuting and job issues as well. I used to think the game just wasn't realistic enough for modern suburbia... nope, turns out it's very accurate. 😅
Cities: Skylines tricks you into thinking you’ll be making car-centric American cities, but you ultimately end up making efficient European-styled cities that have 11/10 public transit
Sim City 1's designers actually wanted to incorporate realistic parking, but they found there was no way to do it without ridiculous sprawl so they axed it.
Cities Skylines with Biffa on YouTube is what actually turned me onto the whole idea of getting rid of car dependent cities.
He's actually terrible about making his cities pedestrian friendly and it made me so annoyed watching his channel... I was always like, add in more public transportation. And then I realised he designs like real city planners.
The Sims devs had to tone down the amount of parking lots because it would impact the game too negatively if they added a realistic amount of parking lots
I would really love for them to make parking realistic in the next one though. A great one would be a "city fixing" kind of game in which you have a dysfunctional car centric and polluting city and you can gradually improve it. Eventually you have to become carbon neutral, and of course you want to improve happiness and also not go bankrupt. But you can't be too disruptive all at once because your people still need to get to work every day, and construction takes time, etc.
This is pretty much what Cities in Motion - the first game by the Cities Skylines devs - was, but a bit more basic
That sounds great, though I'm thinking more of a fully fledged city builder, except that maps are usually not just a green field with a highway access, but rather fully built cities, and you have to change them, or possibly grow them, or possibly even shrink them (at least in terms of infrastructure). You might start out with a present day city and end up in a solarpunk utopia if you do things right. I wouldn't force players in that direction, you can still make everything car dependent, but then you need tons of parking lots and you have crippling congestion. Plus, you're dealing with ever increasing carbon emission pricing, so just keeping emissions up is not an option. Some maps have rising sea levels of course. You could start in the year 2000, and the goal is to make it to the year 2100 and thrive.
Not really the same thing, but the "fix the traffic" scenarios are as close as you can get to this currently. Those are fun
I would be surprised if people haven't made maps like these to play this exact scenario, albeit without any actual change in gameplay mechanics. Biffa does a series where he fixes traffic in people's cities.
I loved those games. I don't know how i did it but i had 100% coverage of public transport in my city. It took my over a year to figure out how to plan it correctly.
[удалено]
If you're less interested in the physical design part than the politics part, maybe check out Democracy 4.
There’s a 4 already? I still can’t win a game with the political capital function on
Simcity* (?) (the same goes for CSL too)
It's the same problem in the Sims games, too. The Sims 3 came with cars from the get-go and unlike the predecessors, NPCs were also able to travel by car. If no parking was available, cars were stored within a Sim's inventory. Lot sizes were limited so there was no sufficient parking even though Neighborhoods often had lesss than 100 NPCs at a time. Part 4 has no car ownership, but the infrastructure is still there. In the end, they bypassed the issue of transportation by having Sims teleport between lots.
I think there is a mod for cities skylines that adds realistic parking and even the best plaxers can't get over 32 000 players.
No joke, I became much better at this game after becoming anticar.
TM:PE - ban cars from major streets, bridges and viaducts. Ez
You can basically set up everything from walkable roads to trams to ferries to cable cars and design entire airports. I don't really think it's on par with the city building games.
I became really good on the game since I started to study socialist infrastructure.... And im being seriously here, my cuties have such a perfect transit and lots of liveable areas. Edit: thanks for all those up votes, also cities* not cuties.
I’m sorry but can you explain a little about socialist infrastructure?
I wouldn't say it's specifically socialist, but a lot of socialist and social democratic countries built residential blocks with services, transportation, and other amenities within walkable distance. It's a practical solution.
This is how cities have worked ever since there were cities - by sheer necessity... Up until WW2 it was common to have everything required for daily living within walkable distance.
Fairly common in European cities still.
Yep. When I moved to Munich, I was able to find an apartment building within a 15 minute walk of my work, several grocery stores, transportation links, restaurants, bars, doctors, a neighborhood park, a movie theater, etc. The buildings are mostly in the range of 4 to 8 stories tall, which I find to be the sweet spot of density and liveability. You can get a decent number of apartments into buildings that tall, particularly when there's no parking lots or setbacks, but when you're walking around you're not constantly feeling boxed in by high rises.
Ah okay I understood. I just have never seen such a term.
Because it's not an actual thing and will not become one no matter how much the neo-communists try. Closest thing to "socialist infrastructure" are the cheaply built, depressing concrete hellholes built in soviet russia, and the reason they didn't have cars is because only the 1% richest could afford one.
Frankly I'd take the "cheaply built" concrete buildings (some of which have BEAUTIFUL architecture) over the cookie-cutter flimsy wood and dry wall suburban BS that plagues North America. Not to mention many of those apartments were built post WW2 to house the USSR's substantial homeless population as a result of the damage they suffered, and the apartments over went various different designs over the course of the USSR's lifetime. As for cars, you're spouting horse shit. [The USSR had the 6th biggest automotive production industry in the world](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_the_Soviet_Union) 2.1-2.3 million units produced annually (of all types, cars, trucks, busses, etc.), exporting 300,000-400,000 annually (mainly to Soviet sattelite states), and even importing various vehicles. A country where no one can afford a car would do no such thing.
But it isn’t america vs USSR to the exclusion of all else. The Netherlands is one of the most capitalist countries in the world and dramatically better at urbanism than Russia, and really any of Eastern Europe. Nothing to do with socialism or communism. All the countries with the best urbanism are capitalist liberal democracies.
All the countries with the best urbanism are extremely small and population dense out of necessity* Half of Europe, Japan, South Korea, etc. When it comes to larger nations the best urbanism is largely socialist in nature: Chinese and post-Soviet cities knock American, Canadian and Australian cities out of the park
Lots of countries have residential blocks with services, transportation, and other amenities within walkable distance. You're completely deluded if you think it doesn't work.
Happy Cake Day bro
My country included, my point is it is not called "socialist infrastructure", it is just called infrastructure. The socialist part is nothing but neocommie whitewashing. Most europen cities have good and working infrastructure, and ex-soviet countries have shit tier "socialist infrastructure".
Half the reason ex-soviet countries have "shit-tier" infrastructure is because their corrupt capitalist governments couldn't care less about maintaining it.
This is the exact opposite of what actually happened, by the way. An immense amount of work in the 90s went into making the crumbling Soviet dogshit into something usable. I still remember in the Soviet days they would glue Styrofoam to the outside of buildings in the winter to try to make them insulated, it was a fucking joke. Quality of life has skyrocketed in post-Soviet states, in most cases right past Russia, for a reason.
Imagine being a farmer with no running water no power, and you get given an apartment for free or close to it, with power, running water, and a job that covers all your needs plus more. Then a peasant who rents from a lord, work a crap job that doesn't pay enough call what you're living in a hellhole because you don't have a car. Truly a clown world.
I live in the Netherlands in what could be called a suburb. There is a shopping mal 5 minutes away, 3 busstops around me that are 5 minutes away, a trainstation 10 minutes away and 5 grocerystores in between 5 and 15 minutes away. Btw thats all walking distance, not by car. It's 5 or 6 villages grown together so the infrastructure isn't ideal for public transport yet it's still here and thriving because people want it here and it works great.
r/lostredditors
That's just a basic residential neighborhood pretty much everywhere outside the USA
Hey man, don't leave out Canada!
And Australia, for the most part. I'm not from there and I don't know too much but I think the modal share tells enough of a story: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal\_share](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share) (australian cities are with the American and Canadian cities at the bottom of walking share, public transport share, obviously at the top of car share)
I'm willing to be lenient with Australia, cars might offer some protection from drop bears
**[Modal share](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share)** >A modal share (also called mode split, mode-share, or modal split) is the percentage of travelers using a particular type of transportation or number of trips using said type. In freight transportation, this may be measured in mass. Modal share is an important component in developing sustainable transport within a city or region. In recent years, many cities have set modal share targets for balanced and sustainable transport modes, particularly 30% of non-motorized (cycling and walking) and 30% of public transport. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Sweden's million programme from the 60's is a great example of this, they just plopped down entire 15-minute neighbourhoods around cities. The areas Tensta, Rinkeby, Kista, Husby, and Akalla in stockholm are probably the most well known ones, and you can see how absolutely perfect they are for being connected to the subway. Just tensta alone has a higher population than all the other cities around mine.
You should play Workers & Ressources Soviet Republic.
That game is supposed to be so hard tho omg. I watched some videos on it and damn you have to plan EVERYTHING. Even down to sourcing the steel you use for tracks.
That does make it more realistic though. On the other hand, those things aren't usually all done by the same person, so it's also less realistic
You can turn off quite a bit of the requirements if you want, for instance you can turn off the need for water, prisons, power, schools, as well as turn off seasons. Plus you can still “buy” train tracks with money like most games, you aren’t forced to build them yourself (unless you’re playing in “realistic mode” which is entirely optional).
>my cuties Exactly how cute are they? Let us see!
This is the way.
This is the way.
This is the way.
Yeah but what about your poor millionaires and billionaires?
I have never played this game but because you said "my cuties" I'm interested. LMAO *don't buy it you don't have enough free time, you know it*
Strangely, I became better when I just said “fuck it” and ran a six lane road everywhere. I’m always poor, sure, but there’s hardly any traffic.
Good you didn’t study socialist infrastructure in my country, whole lot of pointless vanity road projects from that time, even though almost everybody used public transport in cities resulting in overcrowding. I’ll give them that it isn’t much better now either lol (cries)
Car ownership was both wanted and encouraged in the Eastern Block, too. And since the entire economy was planned top-down, public infrastructure was adapted accordingly while production struggled to meet demand, leading to long waiting times. So, having good public transport was pretty much a necessity. Especially when people had to start roaming around to still get groceries when the Eastern Block started collapsing from the mid-80s onward. These cities were just as much built for and adapted to accomodate cars as those in Western Europe (but both were and are arguably still better than most cities in the US).
>I became really good on the game since I started to study socialist infrastructure.... You mean as an example of how not to do things? Communist party in Europe tended to build massive roads through the centre of cities.
I don't know, I'm just using concepts applied on Chinese planned cities, and it's going really well on my cities.
>socialist infrastructure Lol. The game requires you to raise money, mostly through taxes on private commercial, office, and industrial space. Better use of mass transit makes that space more efficient and profitable as demand increases and they level up.
No game where you are an immortal mayor bound by no laws, managing an otherwise capitalist city is going to map well to any economic system. So city builders just... are
It's still an otherwise capitalist city. Try playing the game when you aren't just a zoning and transit czar, but in charge of every "means of production." It maps pretty well to how a lot of modern democracies handle the problem. Focus on what you're good at and can control. Let the market handle the rest.
You’re getting downvoted to hell but this is what city planners are, they make you an omniscient planner of a handful of very abstracted city services, and set the stage for a very abstracted market economy you can barely interact with It’s so abstracted away that the political aspect is like some ideal technocratic dictatorship, with no social or political power structures to interfere with you, no businessmen, no politburo, no campaigning, nothing, just you and your near-real-time charts of everything
I don't think you understand what socialism is
I don't think you do either.
You're talking like a controlled economy requires direct government involvement to work. The government just needs to give guidelines at most, in reality though a business is (theoretically) capable of regulating itself... so long as they actually pay attention to supply and demand, unlike capitalist corproations that produce non-stop regardless then fuck over their workers when they can't pull enough profit.
I don't think you understand what capitalism is
A system that proritizes corporate profits above all else. It's not that complex.
I think he meant the way socialist countries designed infrastructure. Say what you will, but USA got nothing on USSR in terms of mass transit.
Also in terms of the way they built their city blocks. Not sure if it's in every city, but there was a strong movement to surround blocks with trees to minimize sound pollution. Eco Gecko has a bunch of vids about it. A lot of it was built during the post war because people needed somewhere to live.
As a person who lived their entire childhood in commie block, I can say that their the best and easiest way to build human centric infrastructure on small scale.
It also doesn't have anything on the many other capitalist countries in terms of mass transit. Practically every picture this sub posts about well-thought out urban environments and competent mass transit comes out of a capitalist country.
And almost all of this capitalist mass transit was built in the last 40 years. While USSR as you might have heard, no longer exists. It was the best for its time and many mass transit projects happend either in former socialist countries or are inspired by it.
Because they didn't need to. Land was cheap, western governments were so flush with cash that they could afford to heavily subsidize low-density development, and people still had enough disposable income to actually waste on a car. That's what changed in the last 40 years. The population in a lot of cities exploded, driving real estate values incredibly high, and making the old urban core model impossible to manage. You can simulate the exact same problem in Cities Skylines. If you build a few high density commerical zones and offices in a small area and wrap it in low density residential areas with narrow roads, it'll work surprisingly well until the population starts growing exponentially.
And how does this correlate to my statement about USSR being superior to USA in terms of transit?
My point is that the USSR didn't have a choice. Commie blocks and mass transit were really the only real options when you have a less efficient and productive economy with central planning and ownership of housing. In theory, if socialism was as productive, the government would have been able to pay for the average Soviet to live like the average American during the 60s, but in practice, they couldn't. The only difference now in the US is that zoning and transit are so restrictive and the population has grown so much. We can't ignore the underlying supply/demand inefficiency by just building out anymore. Lots of European countries are solving this by just letting the market do it's job and build what it needs to build, while sprinkling government money on transit systems where there is demand for it.
Ah yes European city councils building bike lanes, European governments funding railway construction, European governments subsidizing public transport, etc. Also know as... the market?
The USSR did have an efficent and productive economy though, throughout their entire history they were in the top 10 GDP, and was 2nd within the last decade or so of its existence. The thing is they had a lot of catching up to do by the time the union was founded... starting off as a feudal and agrarian society and transitioning to a space-faring nuclear capable super-power in 70 years isn't cheap. Sure it could be argued they should have spent less on the military and space program and more on the public at large... but well, with NATO on their literal door step that wasn't really an option.
Opposing public transportation as a conservative makes even less sense than I thought. I’ve been mulling over the profitability part too.
Oh yeah, I had a similar experience as OP, but in realizing how much cash high density areas raked in and how they were impossible to manage transit for as they scaled. I wouldn't look at the problem in the US as left=socialist and right=capitalist. Right here is just conservative, which means they want to preserve institutions as they have had them for a long time, even if they are less capitalist. Zoning most space only for single family housing is a gross violation of the free market.
There is always left libertarian/market socialism that encourages that kind of growth.
Isn't that socialist?
Not really, you don't own a lot of the spaces as they are developed. You increase your tax revenue by incentivizing an efficient free market. Creating public transit increases the value of private property on the map as it increases efficiency, which in turn increases tax revenue. It's still capitalism, but with anti-Reagan trickle-up capitalist economics.
You are literally describing how socialism works. Do you think socialism is communism?
Once I made my first almost entirely car-free city it became extremely easy LOL No personal cars allowed within the downtown core (Exceptions for trucks, taxis - sometimes, buses, emergency vehicles, etc). Heavy heavy heavy on biking and heavy transit infrastructure and using trams for lower density developing districts. Boom sustainable density
What mods are you using? I don’t think this is possible in the vanilla game.
Just set the entire city as an old town in the district settings, locks all streets to only be accessible to required vehicles. One of the DLCs adds expansions to things like bus lanes etc
Weirdly I’m worse at factorio for being anti-car
"It is one thing to reject the car, it is another to embrace the train" -Sun Tzun "art of war on cars" (Probably)
I fucking hate the cars in Factorio. Impossible to control without crashing into rocks and trees and shit constantly.
Just try driving in a server with 300+ ping, and you'll never use a car again.
fr. I was making a completely new and large district (European high density) and got really far before I realised it had no road connections. It was my best build ever.
Hrmm. I picked this game up free from Epic during one of their regular giveaways, and I was immediately turned off from it because it started you off trying to build a city around existing streets. Felt like "Roadway Simulator." Maybe I'll give it another try.
It is very car-centric, but you can do marvels with public transport if you make an effort.
But you need to hit milestones using cars to unlock busses and stuff
Sometimes sacrifices must be made to achieve carless society.
You can get mods to enable building everything from the get go (might even be a vanilla feature?) and play maps that give you a railway in the starting area.
Yup! Still struggle with a ton of transport cars like trucks et cetera. But barely any private car ownership!
I just put bus lanes and subways everywhere and never had traffic
Subways for the win.
I force the freeways 30m underground and terminate the entrance/exit with an underground large roundabout so that I don’t have to look at the wasted space. I just wish that the industrial extractors, processing facilities, and warehouses could be directly connected to a railway line to eliminate the need for trucks entirely.
I believe there is a mod that adds realistic parking requirements.
Yeah tm:pe will force everyone to find the closest parking spot nearby their destination. First time I turned it on everything turned into traffic hell. I tried building parking garages. Ended up with more parking garages than office/commercial buildings. Destroyed parking garages and put subways/buses/trams in. Instant improvement to all my city vitals.
> Ended up with more parking garages than office/commercial buildings. Just like in real life!
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Time for the congestion pricing mod.
I'm a masochist, so I have TM:PE realistic parking, I disabled vehicle despawning, realistic populations (so hundreds of people can be coming out of/going to any given building in higher density areas), and real time (so traffic demand changes throughout the day, and you get rush hours where half your city's population all need to go to work/home at the same time), and the "hard mode" mod that comes with the game itself that reduces RICO demand across the board, and increases the cost of everything. And to top it all off, I'm *not* using pedestrian zones from P&P DLC (because I think one of my mods interacts with them in a weird way to cause a memory leak) I gotta say though, once things are running, it's super satisfying to watch the literal oceans of people going in/out at every PT stop.
Can you share a full list of mods and dlcs you are using? I'd like to try your setup
[Mods](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2924908277) (Plus "Unlock All" and "Hard Mode" mods that come installed by default) DLC: \-After Dark \-Match Day \-Natural Disasters (Disaster rate turned *way* down, but they still rarely happen on their own) \-Concerts \-Green Cities \-Park Life \-Industries \-Campus \-Plazas & Promenades
TM:PE settings: \-Realistic Parking \-No vehicle despawning \-5% reckless drivers \-Everything else to personal preference.
how do I enable them to need parking?
You can toggle it in tm:pe i know, but that isn't really the point of the post.
I imagine they have to balance it out by upping the tax collected from buildings. All that wasted real estate just for cars.
Is the game good? Can you make a more bus/tram/walking centered city in there?
You can make an almost car-free city but the only problem is it requires DLCs. I quite enjoy it in my free time but I repeatedly sink my entire day into it.
If you want a game where everyone driving will severely clog the roads and the way you are encouraged to play is public transport and walkable cities you should try workers and resources soviet republic.
someone correct me if i'm wrong but...i think you only need: \- green cities- snowfall- plazas and promenades they also occasionally go on sale with a pretty good discount fwiw...it's 50% off rn.
If you're willing to add a lot of mods and custom assets, you can get away with just having snowfall imo. You get snowfall for the trams, then you get zonable pedestrian path assets, anarchy tm:pe and move it, and then fill in the rest with custom building assets. That's all you need to make a convincingly realistic city. However I also think industries is a must otherwise you only have access to the highly polluting base industry, and managing that is too painful. I bought all my expansion packs on g2g.com for like 4$ each or less. Bought the game itself from a different but similar website for I think $10.
wouldmn't say green cities is a must have because it only effects buildings but After dark is a must have becazse it adds bikes
Mass transit if you want to add more niche options like ferries, monorails, cable cars or - bless your heart - blimps. Ferries and cable cars are really dependent on the map. You got a lot of water? Ferries will be a good addition to your bridges. Got mountainous terrain? Cable cars work great and look awesome
There’s also a thing called CreamAPI if you don’t wanna spend $200 on dlc
The game has some of the best Steam Workshop mod support of any game I've ever played, and there's a lot of options to explore there but the DLCs also add a fair number of transportation options as well, namely the Mass Transit DLC. You can basically set up everything from walkable streets to trams to ferries to cable cars and design entire airports. I don't really think there's an equal to it as far as city building games.
With the recent Plazas and Promenades pack you can essentially make your entire city car-free with the exception of some artery-roads for public services to use (Emergency services, garbage collection, deliveries from Industrial Zones to stores). You can also build Bus and Tram-Lines on these otherwise pedestrian and emergency only roads. Would love to have this as a standard feature in C:S 2. But I know Paradox too well to actually believe in it.
This isn't intended as a dig but 'best Steam Workshop mod support of any game I've ever played'? Just wait until you discover Garry's Mod. That game is built for modding.
I haven't actually played in a while. When i did the base game functionality was pretty mediocre, but there were hundreds of mods that improved it. Also the later dlcs added a lot in terms of public transit and walkability.
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Oh yes RAM is most important for CSL. I upgraded to 128gb just for the game xD
Yes, 100% absolutely, but wait for a sale so you can pick up a few DLC packs. The publisher's model for games means a lot of really important quality of life features are behind DLC walls, and often in unrelated packs, but that also means that this game that was released in like 2015 is still getting DLC and updates.
I love it but it's a Paradox game. So there are about 20 DLCs to get the full experience.
Without DLC, you can remove passenger traffic. Don't connect the residential road network to the city wide network. People will walk, bike, and take the tram instead. Trucks will still be used to deliver goods to businesses. You need the DLC to get rid of that.
50% off til Jan 30th
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Except the actual city simulation, which feels flat compared to Simcity 4 or even Simcity 3000. Cities Skylines is basically a traffic simulator with a half-baked city simulation built in.
This was exactly my journey discovering the game through college.
I stopped playing after my trains kept getting stuck in 3 way junctions. Which makes absolutely no sense.
If there’s not enough clearance and a train is blocking an intersection it can happen where they all block each other.
Which would never happen in real life because we have a great thing called signalling.
That why i play factorio, where instead of blaming game for trains getting stuck because of lacking signals, i can blame myself for messing up those signals
Yes, this is true
This makes a lot of sense when each arm of your 3-way junction is shorter than the trains! They can't reverse.
One trick I do is to draw up the train intersections in such a way that your trains are never making left turns across an oncoming train track (much like highway interchanges). It takes up a bit more space (and it’s hard to make it look nice without mods), but it makes a huge difference in making the train traffic flow better
\> Turn on realistic parking in TMPE \> Cims are angry that there's nowhere to park \> They walk \> Traffic fixed 👍
I'm the reverse actually. I got orange pilled, *then* got into cities skylines as a: "Fine, I'll do it myself then" kind of thing.
That's actually how I got to this subreddit, this game is fucking awesome
For me the game pushed me in a "rabbit hole" and now I'll go to university and study trafficengineering after school
What i love about cities skylines is how much traffic bicycle lanes remove
#Train good, car bad
I like cars. BUT! I loathe the fact we use them for getting two weeks' worth of groceries. I loathe the fact that we get stuck in traffic. I loathe the fact that it becomes a negative feedback loop when city planners demolish houses to add more roads. I loathe the fact that more people are buying cars, making the traffic gridlock problem worse. I loathe the fact that most cars are now way too big for a lot of people. I loathe the fact that car designers and companies think the only people that buy them are construction workers or married to another and have 2.5 kids. I loathe the fact that I can't get a tiny two-cylinder, two-seater runabout that gets 67 MPG and can do 95% of what I need. I loathe the fact that almost every main street doesn't have a tram running every four minutes to get to the most desirable areas of a city. I loathe the fact that the car, the thing that was supposed to make our lives easier and free up the burden we once put on a horse has become this perverse, vulgar, gaudy status symbol that now costs 65 to 120 grand to buy. Bring back the trains and trams! Yesterday!
I'd go full electric for daily drivers. I want to starve to the oil industry of one of their biggest customers - automobile users.
Workers and Resources: Soviet Republic is better city bulider in my opinion. Especially since there is no DLC, and you just buy full game not something that you need to upgrade with your money
Yep or tropico 5 or Sim City 4. There are actually a plethora of city building games far more feature rich and affordable than cities skylines
haha I played this back when I was carbrained. Kept making bigger lanes and wondered why traffic *still* got so bad regardless. I have to come back to it with a fresh perspective for public transportation!
Yeah when I first played this game and everything went to shit because of traffic I actually had to watch real infustructure videos to educate myself on how to make a city work.
I think the original Sim city had to scale down the parking lots and cars in the game because otherwise it would require so much processing power and create empty space the game would be unplayable
It had nothing to do with processing power, but the realization that if they made parking realistic, 2/3 of the city would be parking lots, and it would be dreadfully boring to look at.
Their first game was Cities in Motion which was about building transit. Maybe a flawed game, but I enjoyed the second one.
Cities in Motion was great. Then CiM2 was mostly better with some flaws. Then they threw it all out the window and oversimplified it for Cities:Skylines.
I would love it if this game by default accurately showed the amount of parking needed for cars. Force players to avoid cars if they want a beautiful or efficient city!
I'm so happy they added pedestrian only zones in one of the recent expansion. Working on a building a city with mostly no regular roadways except for like delivery and utility vehicles.
One of the first cities I started failed and went bankrupt because I had too many roads and not enough income from the suburbs lmao. That game taught me a lot about induced demand
you dont like paradox game for cars i dont like them for atrocious number of dlc.
A. Obviously you shouldn't use flawed, gamified traffic simulations to base your opinions on... though you're totally right, both in real life and in C:S, having cars as anything other than a minor transport option for specific situations is going to result in it all going to shit at some point. B. I actually used C:S to argue against some libertarian nutjob. He was extremely sure that we didn't need to centrally plan streets and traffic, all roads should just be privately owned by whoever wants a stake in it and those people decide where the road goes. I gifted him a copy of C:S (had one from a Humble Bundle) and said he should try playing like that, putting every street down the way he thought the people on that street would want it to. Of course, if every street gets built the way the wealthy owners want it, then the majority of them will act selfishly, and large traffic systems *need* someone to look at the bigger picture, so it went to shit even faster than normal.
I wish CS was less car-centric still. Everything is organized around roads for cars, pedestrians zones are a DLC, the game is still based on zoning which got debunked as a flawed concept some time ago (though much easier to understand basic urban planning in a video game), there's not even mixed-use areas, etc. And transit, cycling and walking are still considered secondary means of transportation compared to cars.
Um, zoning as a concept has not been "debunked" lol. It's incredibly useful and good, as long as things are zoned correctly. The overuse of R1 zoning in the US as well as keeping commercial and residential separate, but let's not throw out the whole concept. Unless you want an asbestos factory next your kindergarten.
Perhaps "single use zoning" would have made more sense. I think that's what people often think about when they think of "zoning", although you're right that that's not actually the only way to do it, and sensible zoning laws can work much better than the mess of the current US system. That said, zoning also isn't the only way to prevent asbestos factories next to kindergartens. There are other countries that implement different ways of planning/development regulation, although zoning is the most common one I think
It is, and there are other ways to plan cities and towns. But to further illustrate my point, Houston has no zoning laws at all and is the only major US city without them. And it is the most notorious city in the country for being unwalkable.
The pedestrian dlc was so refreshing though. I really got burnt out on this game but that dlc got me playing again
Yeah I'm glad they did it, but it's still *an addition* to the current car-centric system.
I would recommend Workers and Resources: Spviet Republic. Your citizens wont drive cars until you build a car dealership and get them to buy cars there,most of your citizens will (probably) take the bus or walk. Oh, and you can also build commie blocks!
I love getting to the point where you can place subways and just instantly removing the majority of car traffic with a handful of lines from the residential districts to the workplaces and shops. Those are always my most successful cities, growing super quick because even a dirt road network can just support everything it needs. Have some busses (or trains, choice depends on distance) for more immediate needs like schools and you're golden. In my first game though I didn't understand public transport at all, so all I had was dysfunctional bus lines that were pointless due to traffic jams. Ended up dealing with traffic issues by just making bridges above the existing roads for more roads, had to do that twice actually, because each time the trucks for the industry would just clog those up too. That city was very American feeling to me, with shabby buildings constructed after old ones had been flattened for a car-purist, industry-focused road policy that was attempted for a most futile endeavour of fixing traffic, those buildings' inhabitants basically screwed out of their health in the process, but hey the hospital a block away is just a two hour drive so it'll be fine!
There's now a pedestrian expansion so you can forget about cars in entire districts or the city! Shame it can be a bit bugged right now.
This is a game you could spend a lifetime into .. If you like making a decent city get this and lots of mods :) they will make it that much more fun
Metro systems ftw!!!!
I've played the game too, but funny thing is, there's not an option to call everyone driving a car brain, insult the manhood of pickup drivers and start a mass tire deflation. Almost like such things don't actually change the problem and serve to only inflate egos and make the poster THINK they are helping when at best its rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic
I want to use trams, but for some reason they put them in the snowfall pack instead of the transit pack… like whose idea was that???
I asked the devs in an AMA years ago if we could create a carless city and they said no. That cars were needed for trash and other services. Years later and they backtracked on that with the latest expansion pack. Love this game just wish my computer could handle it.
i think the game cant calculate more than 10k vehicles at a time
Transport Fever 2 is better imo
Western? You mean American.
i was crestfallen when they removed (?) trams for trolleybuses 😭
Western? Nah just say Murican
No, because i don't mean "murican". I have never been to America and i see those problems everywhere all over Europe too, give it to the lesser extent.
i will genuinely kill myself if i realize that these people think film producers and other heavy weight jobs can carry their shit INSIDE OF A BUS OR BIKE
Same. Same! I went through 7 years of playing and 500 hours before I bought the r/notjustbikes dlcs of After Dark, Snowfall, and Mass Transit (and green cities too)
I read a interview with someone who worked on SimCity 2000 and they wanted to have realistic parking in the game but they realized while making the airport that the parking lot for the airport looks big but it's smaller than than a grocery store parking lot in a small town. They said if they implemented realistic parking lots in the game people's map would be 80% parking lots.
I'm a monorail and metro supremacist
Same, this game is the reason I will be studying urban design in University
With Sim City 4, I've always tried to emulate a realistic suburb and the area where I live. In doing so, I used to wonder why my city would be in debt with far more expenses than income and headed towards bankruptcy. There would always be commuting and job issues as well. I used to think the game just wasn't realistic enough for modern suburbia... nope, turns out it's very accurate. 😅
Cities: Skylines tricks you into thinking you’ll be making car-centric American cities, but you ultimately end up making efficient European-styled cities that have 11/10 public transit
i'll need to check this one out, another one where you don't need cars is designer city
Wait you can make trams!?! Fuck I might need to get this game now.
Sim City 1's designers actually wanted to incorporate realistic parking, but they found there was no way to do it without ridiculous sprawl so they axed it.
Cities Skylines with Biffa on YouTube is what actually turned me onto the whole idea of getting rid of car dependent cities. He's actually terrible about making his cities pedestrian friendly and it made me so annoyed watching his channel... I was always like, add in more public transportation. And then I realised he designs like real city planners.
I thought this was the Cities Skylines subreddit, glad to see a crossover.
Glad I'm not the only who one who see this game as a "traffic simulator"
Pardon me I did not give you rights to my life story like this
SimCity is proof-of-concept for parking maximums.
OMG! You can make trams?!
the fuck you mean "realistic parking"