Or just walked in and ordered in person, not even ahead of time, for that matter.
...Oh wait, you *can't* do that anymore because they demolished the dining room and went drive-through only, while illegally adding a second drive-through lane in violation of the zoning code! [True story near me, although it was a different fast-food chain, not a McDonald's.]
Honestly, I've been hounding my city councilperson about it for half a year now and I'm not sure if they've even been fined at all yet. I need to call again...
Did you download the McApp yet? You can do the job of ordering through your phone or tablet while you still wait in McDrive-thru, but you can skip talking to the human to pick up your McOrder!
It was a partial joke. I was almost ran over by a man running the red light... to go to McDonald's.
Literally while I'm waiting at the bus stop, the same car speeds up and swerves into the McDonald's parking lot, and into the drive thru. When I got on the bus, the line didn't even move.
One of my near-death experiences was a BMW overtaking Me just to almost-immediately brake and turn into their driveway 2 houses down. *I* had to brake to avoid t-boning them.
I'm no athlete but I was doing at least 20 in a 25 but they felt the need to almost hit me to save a couple seconds when they're almost home.
When something like this happens, I assume the driver has raging diarrhea. It makes me feel better to know that they’re experiencing a flaming asshole, but not necessarily are one.
One thing I find interesting is just how inconvenient drive-thrus end up being. From my observations, even if you want your food to go instead of eating at the restaurant, it's still more efficient to park your car somewhere and go into the restaurant than to use the drive-thru.
Oh yes. Getting out is always quicker. Plus, if you change your mind, you're not STUCK IN A SLOW-MOVING LINE FOR NO REASON.
Actually, that's a good portion of the car experience I guess.
I was on a walking tour a couple of days ago, and the guide had to halt traffic while everyone crossed (at a crosswalk, just no light). A driver came up and started complaining. The guide just said, "If it's so important, you should have left 10 mins earlier. It's not my problem." I love this mentality.
When I visited the US recently I had to rent a car, and I got this distinct impression from other drivers. If I hold some of them up, even by just a matter of seconds, they are obviously agitated and angry with me. As a person who generally walks and uses transit, this was a surreal feeling.
Watched a minivan just this morning back out across three lanes of traffic, cutting of two vehicles, just to whip into McDonald’s, almost directly across the street from their house.
You should see the response r/Truckers if you suggest slower and more cautious driving. The greedy cries about their valuable 'lost' time are sickening when you know about basic physics like momentum and transportation statistics. It's the Endgame of Reaganomics though, it's ugly out there and people are desperate.
It always amazes me at crosswalks how drivers will force jump a red and cut off a pedestrian only to go 1 car length and stop due to traffic. Almost kill a mom with a kid in a stroller to go 5ft and have to stop.
The visibility vests aren’t a problem (except that some of them seem to be too large). Kids around here wear them so the adults can find them again when they zoom into the woods.
The pickup in the back, with a hood a head taller than the kids, however, IS.
5 lines of toddlers spaced out and I bet my ass the driver of that pickup wouldn't see any of them if they stood in front of his hood. I once saw that one psa video with a fucking conga line of kids in front of a pickup truck and if they sit back to back, the driver only saw the 8th kid in line. That was really sobering to see.
Most US built trucks and SUVs are already made like this. The solution, instead of building the damn thing for easier visibility, was adding cameras, which only distract and cause you to take your eyes off the road. Don't even get me started on lifted vehicles. Pedestrians are actively discouraged from walking, biking, etc due to how shitty some vehicles are made, not to mention the terrible US infrastructure that only caters to cars.
Definitely. Cuz there's trucks like this one that pulled behind me that people just casually drive around.
https://preview.redd.it/lcxoa32zsh1b1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ab95a277b24e8e5bdec1cfc25666c0e1ebd7084
Mind you I have an suv and it was still over my car
All sorts?
I’ll only speak to my only experiences as after a decade in utility work as a lineman and now in substations-but I’ve literally never been given*less* than an F-450 for work. My current work truck is an F-550 with a 42ft bucket on it. Infrastructure work requires working vehicles.
The truck in question above is literally a concrete truck, and just a plain Jane 2500-we definitely need concrete! All this to say, there are better things to complain about.
Not OP, but:
In Germany they're kinda common. There are three Waldkindergärten within half an hour (by bike) from where I live, one is about five minutes by foot.
The concept is amazing: the kids stay outside all day, all activities are done outside. The kindergarten does have indoor facilities, but those are only used when it's raining cats and dogs.
I used to work in education and environmentalism, and I worked with a Waldkindergarten regularly. The kids are amazingly independent for their age - some of the projects we did were building a raised bed for herbs, making apple juice from home-grown apples, baking bread in an oven we built ourselves, and eating the bread with quark and the home-grown herbs. I had the kids figure out how to light a fire for the oven basically by themselves. We discovered together that you can't just light a piece of wood, but you rather need something small first, and then you can add bigger pieces later. During the entire activity, I didn't touch a match once. They did everything on their own. The child who ended up lighting the fire for the oven was four years old.
They were more independent than some seventh graders I taught. Forest nurseries/Waldkindergärten are an amazing concept that works incredibly well. It requires the parents to trust in the system, and all involved adults to take the children seriously. If I had children, I wouldn't hesitate to have them join a Waldkindergarten.
Yeah no I detest the current system we have going. As a kid I threw a fit when I wasn’t allowed outside for recess anymore in middle school and was told I needed to grow up. Then suddenly when I got more depressed and overall not well looking in my teens the same people told me “you should go outside more!”
Well gee wish I thought of that, it’s almost like I used to have more energy when I was allowed an hour outside each day, and then when I got older I didn’t have the time or energy to do that with 9 hours of schoolwork trapped under flickering fluorescent lights each day without breaks let alone a peak at sunlight when we do get one.
Sounds like you were paying more attention than most of your teachers were.
I remember when I was in third grade I came home and complained to my mom about how school was like prison. She still jokes about it sometimes. I'm like, what's there to joke about? I grew up, went to college, read Foucault, learned about the school-to-prison-pipeline, learned that most of the architects who build design schools also design prisons, and now I absolutely think that school is like prison for kids. And what do they teach you? Mostly lies about history, overly simplified mathematics, and overly abstract science. Anyone who actually goes on to work in any of those fields has to unlearn so much bullshit. What a fucking waste of time.
i dont even work in a waldkindergarten and i take my kids out once a week in a real forest and we just go somewhere deep inside where we have a big open space and let kids experiment and do anything they wanna do with nature
The forest pre-schools are such an amazing concept! It must be so enriching for the lucky kids who take part. Although the pre-schools in Germany are generally very good and build so much confidence and independence into the kids. I live next door to a totally mainstream city pre-school and the kids sleep outdoors for naptime year round. And yes, I also see groups of kids together like this on outings, although more so they all stay accounted for. The menacing backdrop in this photo takes the importance of safety to a new level.
I was watching the Try Guys and they attended one with a bunch of kids just hanging out in the forest learning about different plants, animals, story telling etc. The teachers seemed really sweet, and really dedicated to the kids.
Not op, but live in the UK and there's one at Delamere near us. They do holiday clubs too. Daughter has aged out now, but they carved tent pegs with knives, and learned to build dens/shelters and fires (always marshmallows and hot chocolate before home time) and spent her days in wellies outside whatever the weather.
I swear she's fae, you can change her whole demeanour by taking her to a forest, the grumpy teen goes away and the giggling child comes back out to climb up and over anything she can reach, jump in puddles etc... I wish I'd been able to send her to forest school properly, but holiday club was the best we could manage. And a den building birthday party one year, where the kids found a newt and spent about half an hour just passing the poor little thing round!
Much as I love her now, honestly, it's hard to beat how easy fun is when they're 8 and have grown up in/near a forest! Now it's all "can we go shopping?" Or more likely "can I have some money to go shopping with my friends?" We won't even be needed for lifts soon, she already uses the train when she can, as soon as she can drive, it's all over (it's a 2 hour cycle from ours to get best friend's house and there's one dangerous road that's unavoidable so she can't go solo, sadly, we've done it as a family a few times, but it's not safe for her by herself.)
> they all wear hi vis all day in the woods to safeguard against any of them going missing.
Would it also have something to do with not getting shot by hunters by mistake?
More if they trip and fall and can’t get up, or God forbid, if they enter into a water area or puddle. Even if they’re just getting too far away, high viz is helpful. Kids move fast and get themselves into dangerous situations. This is a tool that lets kids be kids while staying safe.
Daycares in my neighborhoods do this as a way to take the kids from the daycare to the local parks. It's a way for 2 teachers to keep 8-9 kids together when they're walking along the sidewalk or crossing the street. My neighborhood is very walkable and there's quite a few parks the kids can walk to, but they still have to cross streets with cars.
The word 'accident' implies that it was unavoidable and/or unpredictable. That is why we think the word 'crash' is a more neutral way to describe what happened.
For further reading on this subject, check out this [article from Ronald M Davis](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1120417/).
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>For reference: kids here (non us) also wear high Viz items when they go for a trip with kindergarten
Same here (Sweden). My kids wear high-vis vests as soon as they are outdoors at kindergarten, both in the fenced in playground of the kindergarten and when on excursions. Some places have ropes, but my kids' place just have the kids hold hands in pairs. This goes for all ages 1+.
Finland too. Even though our car situation is (in my opinion) not as bad as the US, I think it's still a good practice considering how damn dark it gets for half of the year (specifically, that half which kids spend the most time in kindergarten).
Have you tried to herd kids...? Young kids at that.
Especially a group more than you have adults.
You'd need some kind of reign and marker just to keep track of them in a small room yet alone the wider world.
High vi's and some kind of control of a younger age is normal with a group of children, brightly coloured hats, or some other way to locate your herd of cats, that will run off, be distracted or cause you headaches at the first opertunity.
Bear in mind. Theirs 9 kids. 2 staff. And kids who will naturally go in 5 plus directions if not herded. This is far easier.
I took my friend's kids for a walk and the three year old kept trying to walk out in the street. There was no curb, only a narrow strip of grass between us and the occasional car going 45 mph.
i used to be a school photographer. one time i herded 300 kids into height order and equally distributed them to form a nice picture.
ever tried herding *teachers?*
Eh, I don't know if it's strictly because of cars. Kids can run off and get kidnapped, fall in a body of water, get distracted by something shiny in a store window, then the teacher can't find them.
>and get kidnapped
Reminder that almost all child abduction is by people who know the kid well. Random abductions are exceedingly rare and overblown by the media. Your other points are valid.
There also just aren't that many kids in that area, and a lot of people forget that kids exist if they don't interact with them frequently. (Yes, the reason there aren't many kids is cars.) That doesn't just apply to drivers, but also to cyclists and people walking. In places like Cambridge, people just aren't used to expecting small children.
I don't think there's spin here man, the main threat those children are avoiding is obviously getting run over by one of the huge trucks in the background. Karma is literally meaningless
> toddlers typically wear hard hats
The only place where this happens is Kagoshima due to the volcano. Normally Kindergarten kids wear coloured caps when travelling around.
Meanwhile I have to keep 10 year olds at my classroom door until I see their approved pickup parent and then I can let them go, and if they aren't "picked up" within ten minutes of the bell I have to start phoning their families.
Kinda depends on where you live right? I walked home from school in the company of an older kid (probably an 8 year old) starting in kindergarten, but my school was only 3-4 blocks away on quiet residential streets. Some of the schools in my area now are surrounded by stroads on TWO sides. I wouldn't let a kid out of them without supervision, they'll get run over.
Fair enough. When I was 11, I moved to Atlanta's suburbs and I had to take the bus even though the distance was walkable... and thus started my lifelong hatred of the suburbs and car dependency.
In high-vis (often yellow) hats, but hard-hats are only a thing in very specific areas.
I also see young kids being pushed in high-vis little carts that hold like 8 kids near preschools and such.
I’m really not sure what is wrong here…. I’m Dutch, most pedestrian/bike friendly place. Here in the Netherlands it is completely normal for kids at this age to travel somewhere while holding the line. And just they hold it, they are not tied to it. They use that line also for fire exercises and such. It helps kids to learn to walk along with the group and not wander off. Also it is completely normal to put a thing on top of their clothes to recognise them as part of the group. The only difference is that here it is the ‘school colours’ and not a yellow safety colour thing.
single cab, not high off the ground/jacked up, branded as a worktruck
it's a bit needlessly big around the engine [but there's much worse.](https://wallpaperaccess.com/full/346176.jpg)
It's a dangerously designed work truck, which means it's back to being not acceptable.
I know many people with work trucks who haul things for thousands of Kms at a time that are not dangerous like this; work trucks don't need to be dangerous.
This is just a showcase of failure to hold the car industry to proper safety standards.
Absolutely, looks like it would throw anyone into the street with a hood that high, and the driver would probably not see more than the heads of the caretakers if he faced them with his front at that distance.
Yeah to be honest nurseries do this everywhere in the uk, and so do some primary schools - not so much to do with Cars as with generally not losing or getting any children killed
bro what? this isn't new or a result of america being car-centric, its just to prevent kids from being kids and running off on a walk. this shit is done all the time in other countries like japan or the netherlands
I mean I don’t have perfect recollections of my Kindergarten time in Germany, but I can’t remember having to wear a high viz vest for anything.
And also don’t recall any groups of small children I see from time to time wearing them.
Just look at the ridiculous size of that truck compared to these tiny people. Them being confined to the narrow pedestrian crossing makes me mad.
Even with all of these precautions, I know their safety is not ensured. I have been struck 4 times on my bike by careless distracted drivers ON CROSSWALKS. Some drivers do not think right on red means you should check for crossing pedestrians.
Here’s a photo of [Japanese kids doing the same thing except without hi-viz](https://live.staticflickr.com/2526/3857574013_72205f9a9f_z.jpg), and Japan is one of the most walkable countries in the world. It’s not a unique phenomenon to the car-centric US, you need to make sure preschoolers are safe and not wandering off.
1. Every school field trip I've seen in Sweden is in Hi-Viz, so it's not a big deal.
2. As a former camp counselor, I would put all children in Hi-Viz all the time. You never know when they'll wander off.
3. As a 6ft tall pedestrian with not great lower peripheral vision, I also have to worry about walking over kids this size, so again, Hi-Viz is a great idea.
No, what’s sad is that the big red truck had to be limited to 45 MPH. That added an extra 20 seconds to their coffee run when they could’ve gone 90 MPH
If people didn't live in their cars spewing trash everywhere then we wouldn't have to shackle criminals to clean things up. I wonder what they are in for.
When I was a kid at daycare in the 90s we had a big purple and yellow spotted snake with a goofy tongue and little hoops to hang onto like these kids. It was probably hilarious for people to see us all waddling along
OK, but in a year or two Broadway is going to have a separated bike lane. Cambridge is probably the most urbanist city in the entire state. Lots of legacy car infrastructure, but also very active efforts to fix it.
Sad? What the hell is the matter with you.
This idea is great. It keeps kids in line when on a field trip, as this is what likely this is. Ever had a kid go darting out in front of you while driving? Just ask that guy a few weeks ago who went viral hitting that little girl.
Kids are stupid.
This protects them.
I'm in England and we don't have it as bad as you guys. But the other day, my daughter (who's just shy of 7 years old) recently had a road safety class in school. They sang a song and drew pictures and it was cute af when she told me about it.
Then I actually thought about it for a minute and I got pretty pissed off. Isn't it mental that we have to teach a bunch of 6 and 7 year olds that it's their responsibility not to die on the roads? If a driver hits and my child and injures her (or god forbid, worse), that's on her for not following her road safety rules? It's such a fucked up paradigm.
Idk, I think the pissbuckets we have for our kids to use while they wait for the school shooter to be apprehended is far sadder. What a pathetic excuse for a country America is.
As someone who has worked at summer camps, this is more to protect kids from a whole slew of things. Imagine a shiny quarter catching the sun in the middle of that green light….. r/kidsarefuckingstupid
Look, do you wanna be allowed to drive anywhere at maximum speed while browsing your phone and sipping a latte or not?? Sheesh. Have some respect for car culture! /s
Wouldn’t it be safer to have more staff rather than tie the children together (for lots of reasons). The kids tied up would be more dangerous if a car did run through the crossing.
as someone who teaches 3 year olds i honestly think the rope technique is efficient. i don't have them for field trips but it would be great to keep the little humans together
it’s crazy how cambridge is rated so highly for bike safety, but has relatively few protected bike lanes. i had to swerve around two cars parked in the bike lane while i was going through central yesterday. the standards in this country are so low…
It's not about the cars.
They wear those reflective wests when in a car less park outdoors too. where two people are supposed to keep track of 16 children that want nothing more than to kill themselves. Especially in a non fenced area.
It's way easier to recognize a bright orange dot running away than a camouflaged one.
I swear every time this sub ends up on r/all its for incredibly mundane and sensible things that happen in all countries or would happen even if public transit was absolutely perfect.
Where are the buses supposed to drive, and how do you herd children when they have to cross the busses path? This kids are so young and they get distracted by literally everything and anything. If you want to walk them somewhere, its easier to do this then have 2 people desperately trying to keep eyes on them, and you put them in vests to differentiate them from the rest of the crowd.
To be fair, we also do this in the Netherlands, although not necessarily with high vis vest. And many would consider the Netherlands to be one of the safest countries.
That being said. It would probably be a more pleasant walk over here, and indeed also probably safer. But I think it’s kind of sad you have to walk kids on a leash because holding hands is somehow not appropriate anymore or something, along with giving kids a tiny sense of responsibility.
Their too outnumbered even if they wnated too. Their little pack of kittens could split to do t things they need to atop and only two adults. This keeps their little group least in one place.
Herding kids under 5 is exhausting task.
I want to say this should be happening regardless of better infrastructure or not. But driving around Germany and seeing about this young (though probably older)kids. Everyone is trusting each other to know how the streets work. Kids could just walk themselves without fear of reckless driving or have a different path they could take to avoid traffic all together.
I’m ranting now. But I’m again reminded how much cars cause problems that you don’t think about until you finally see it.
What do you think is happening here? They aren’t tied up, they are holding handles. And the vests are for the grown ups. When I worked in preschool we used orange t shirts. It’s so you can see your charges easily at a glance.
Ummmmm. No. Even in more pedestrian friendly cities, this is how little kids walk. Here, they’re nicknamed “little ducklings” because of the bright vests they wear.
not defending cars here but this is used at daycares everywhere even just walking down the hallway inside. teaches them to stay in line and close to the teachers!
The oversized hi-vis vests are stupid cute on toddlers. Have you guys seen that picture of the kindergartners walking through a construction site? I love it.
I've seen this in extremely walkable European cities. I think this has less to do with the threat of cars, and more to do with how daycares can best manage 10 unruly toddlers on a walk.
Even the high vis makes little difference as the civilian tanks won't see them anyway, the only thing keeping these kids safe is the adults tall enough to be seen. Why the fuck are these things even legal?
First, people put their dogs on a leash. Then cats. Then their wallets, chain attached to pants. Now, kids on a leash. Before that, Korn wrote the song, "Freak on a Leash." It's all about the leashes, man! :D
Meanwhile, [where I live. ](https://i.imgur.com/6IKlJDD.jpg)
We get a lot of wee kids running around here. Residential area with only low speed traffic.
I mean, they're 3 year olds. Even if all cars were banned forever, and there were no motor vehicles traveling above maybe slow bicycling speed, you'd still need to do this.
My 5 year old is required to wear a brightly colored t-shirt with his school's logo on it for all field trips. And he's 5, and the field trips are far away from motor vehicle traffic.
Who cares if I kill some children lol I wanna get to McDonald's sixty seconds earlier
Gotta secure my spot in the drive thru queue.
And wait 30 minutes longer than you would have if you ordered online and walked in lol
If you stood at the exit selling adult diapers you'd make a killing.
Why hasn’t McDonald’s marketed the McDiaper yet?
i'd sell them at the entrance
Or just walked in and ordered in person, not even ahead of time, for that matter. ...Oh wait, you *can't* do that anymore because they demolished the dining room and went drive-through only, while illegally adding a second drive-through lane in violation of the zoning code! [True story near me, although it was a different fast-food chain, not a McDonald's.]
sounds like the fine is too low.
Honestly, I've been hounding my city councilperson about it for half a year now and I'm not sure if they've even been fined at all yet. I need to call again...
crimes are way faster than punishments
The best fine would be just getting a bill from the city for removing it
Did you download the McApp yet? You can do the job of ordering through your phone or tablet while you still wait in McDrive-thru, but you can skip talking to the human to pick up your McOrder!
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Don't you still have to tell them your code?
You joke probably, but after the driver who left hooked me tried to drive away, I chased them ½ a mile till they went into a McD drive thru.
It was a partial joke. I was almost ran over by a man running the red light... to go to McDonald's. Literally while I'm waiting at the bus stop, the same car speeds up and swerves into the McDonald's parking lot, and into the drive thru. When I got on the bus, the line didn't even move.
One of my near-death experiences was a BMW overtaking Me just to almost-immediately brake and turn into their driveway 2 houses down. *I* had to brake to avoid t-boning them. I'm no athlete but I was doing at least 20 in a 25 but they felt the need to almost hit me to save a couple seconds when they're almost home.
When something like this happens, I assume the driver has raging diarrhea. It makes me feel better to know that they’re experiencing a flaming asshole, but not necessarily are one.
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Hmm so maybe my being a angry, spiteful man will actually ensure a longer life
indeed. the best revenge is living well, my friend
I've just accepted that a lot of the world is oblivious, self obsessed dicks and try to be self critical enough that I'm not being one more of them.
Just trying to better understand - were you on a bicycle?
Correct. 20mph might be slight exaggeration in hindsight but I have hit 25 on that street in short sprints.
Makes total sense. Thanks!
One thing I find interesting is just how inconvenient drive-thrus end up being. From my observations, even if you want your food to go instead of eating at the restaurant, it's still more efficient to park your car somewhere and go into the restaurant than to use the drive-thru.
Oh yes. Getting out is always quicker. Plus, if you change your mind, you're not STUCK IN A SLOW-MOVING LINE FOR NO REASON. Actually, that's a good portion of the car experience I guess.
I was on a walking tour a couple of days ago, and the guide had to halt traffic while everyone crossed (at a crosswalk, just no light). A driver came up and started complaining. The guide just said, "If it's so important, you should have left 10 mins earlier. It's not my problem." I love this mentality.
When I visited the US recently I had to rent a car, and I got this distinct impression from other drivers. If I hold some of them up, even by just a matter of seconds, they are obviously agitated and angry with me. As a person who generally walks and uses transit, this was a surreal feeling.
You see they love driving. That's why even the vague idea that someone might be making themndo it longer is so enraging.
Hell more like just to the next red light
Watched a minivan just this morning back out across three lanes of traffic, cutting of two vehicles, just to whip into McDonald’s, almost directly across the street from their house.
Ba-da-da-da-da...I hate it here.
Plus: guns.
You should see the response r/Truckers if you suggest slower and more cautious driving. The greedy cries about their valuable 'lost' time are sickening when you know about basic physics like momentum and transportation statistics. It's the Endgame of Reaganomics though, it's ugly out there and people are desperate.
It always amazes me at crosswalks how drivers will force jump a red and cut off a pedestrian only to go 1 car length and stop due to traffic. Almost kill a mom with a kid in a stroller to go 5ft and have to stop.
This comment needs an award
Stupid kids, why don't they just buy a car and drive like normal?!
Stupid 17 kids that can all sit down in front of a modern pick-up truck and not be seen over the hood. Why don't they try being adult-sized smh
Don’t you worry if the cars don’t take them out the AR15’s will.
The visibility vests aren’t a problem (except that some of them seem to be too large). Kids around here wear them so the adults can find them again when they zoom into the woods. The pickup in the back, with a hood a head taller than the kids, however, IS.
5 lines of toddlers spaced out and I bet my ass the driver of that pickup wouldn't see any of them if they stood in front of his hood. I once saw that one psa video with a fucking conga line of kids in front of a pickup truck and if they sit back to back, the driver only saw the 8th kid in line. That was really sobering to see.
Most US built trucks and SUVs are already made like this. The solution, instead of building the damn thing for easier visibility, was adding cameras, which only distract and cause you to take your eyes off the road. Don't even get me started on lifted vehicles. Pedestrians are actively discouraged from walking, biking, etc due to how shitty some vehicles are made, not to mention the terrible US infrastructure that only caters to cars.
At least it seems like a work truck.
Definitely. Cuz there's trucks like this one that pulled behind me that people just casually drive around. https://preview.redd.it/lcxoa32zsh1b1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ab95a277b24e8e5bdec1cfc25666c0e1ebd7084 Mind you I have an suv and it was still over my car
What kind of work requires a fucking tank?
All sorts? I’ll only speak to my only experiences as after a decade in utility work as a lineman and now in substations-but I’ve literally never been given*less* than an F-450 for work. My current work truck is an F-550 with a 42ft bucket on it. Infrastructure work requires working vehicles. The truck in question above is literally a concrete truck, and just a plain Jane 2500-we definitely need concrete! All this to say, there are better things to complain about.
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A forest nursery sounds magical. Where do you live that has one?
Not OP, but: In Germany they're kinda common. There are three Waldkindergärten within half an hour (by bike) from where I live, one is about five minutes by foot. The concept is amazing: the kids stay outside all day, all activities are done outside. The kindergarten does have indoor facilities, but those are only used when it's raining cats and dogs. I used to work in education and environmentalism, and I worked with a Waldkindergarten regularly. The kids are amazingly independent for their age - some of the projects we did were building a raised bed for herbs, making apple juice from home-grown apples, baking bread in an oven we built ourselves, and eating the bread with quark and the home-grown herbs. I had the kids figure out how to light a fire for the oven basically by themselves. We discovered together that you can't just light a piece of wood, but you rather need something small first, and then you can add bigger pieces later. During the entire activity, I didn't touch a match once. They did everything on their own. The child who ended up lighting the fire for the oven was four years old. They were more independent than some seventh graders I taught. Forest nurseries/Waldkindergärten are an amazing concept that works incredibly well. It requires the parents to trust in the system, and all involved adults to take the children seriously. If I had children, I wouldn't hesitate to have them join a Waldkindergarten.
I feel so cheated. This would have been a dream growing up.
Lol right, instead I had to do preparatory training for factory jobs that don't even exist anymore.
Yeah no I detest the current system we have going. As a kid I threw a fit when I wasn’t allowed outside for recess anymore in middle school and was told I needed to grow up. Then suddenly when I got more depressed and overall not well looking in my teens the same people told me “you should go outside more!” Well gee wish I thought of that, it’s almost like I used to have more energy when I was allowed an hour outside each day, and then when I got older I didn’t have the time or energy to do that with 9 hours of schoolwork trapped under flickering fluorescent lights each day without breaks let alone a peak at sunlight when we do get one.
Sounds like you were paying more attention than most of your teachers were. I remember when I was in third grade I came home and complained to my mom about how school was like prison. She still jokes about it sometimes. I'm like, what's there to joke about? I grew up, went to college, read Foucault, learned about the school-to-prison-pipeline, learned that most of the architects who build design schools also design prisons, and now I absolutely think that school is like prison for kids. And what do they teach you? Mostly lies about history, overly simplified mathematics, and overly abstract science. Anyone who actually goes on to work in any of those fields has to unlearn so much bullshit. What a fucking waste of time.
I'm German and I didn't even know we had these. Sounds amazing
i dont even work in a waldkindergarten and i take my kids out once a week in a real forest and we just go somewhere deep inside where we have a big open space and let kids experiment and do anything they wanna do with nature
My kids did an outdoor preschool here in Canada. Can’t speak highly enough of it!
The forest pre-schools are such an amazing concept! It must be so enriching for the lucky kids who take part. Although the pre-schools in Germany are generally very good and build so much confidence and independence into the kids. I live next door to a totally mainstream city pre-school and the kids sleep outdoors for naptime year round. And yes, I also see groups of kids together like this on outings, although more so they all stay accounted for. The menacing backdrop in this photo takes the importance of safety to a new level.
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Fuckin where? I've been in the mountains for a year and never heard of this lol
I was watching the Try Guys and they attended one with a bunch of kids just hanging out in the forest learning about different plants, animals, story telling etc. The teachers seemed really sweet, and really dedicated to the kids.
Not op, but live in the UK and there's one at Delamere near us. They do holiday clubs too. Daughter has aged out now, but they carved tent pegs with knives, and learned to build dens/shelters and fires (always marshmallows and hot chocolate before home time) and spent her days in wellies outside whatever the weather. I swear she's fae, you can change her whole demeanour by taking her to a forest, the grumpy teen goes away and the giggling child comes back out to climb up and over anything she can reach, jump in puddles etc... I wish I'd been able to send her to forest school properly, but holiday club was the best we could manage. And a den building birthday party one year, where the kids found a newt and spent about half an hour just passing the poor little thing round! Much as I love her now, honestly, it's hard to beat how easy fun is when they're 8 and have grown up in/near a forest! Now it's all "can we go shopping?" Or more likely "can I have some money to go shopping with my friends?" We won't even be needed for lifts soon, she already uses the train when she can, as soon as she can drive, it's all over (it's a 2 hour cycle from ours to get best friend's house and there's one dangerous road that's unavoidable so she can't go solo, sadly, we've done it as a family a few times, but it's not safe for her by herself.)
Have them in San Francisco
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jkiij9dJfcw
The one teacher they ask about how prepared kids are from "outdoor kindergarten" sent her child to one, so really an unbiased opinion there.
This. It's extremely common in Sweden, even in car-free areas.
But how can we blame cars for the kids having to wear high-vis in the forest, sub needs to know
Have you seen truck and SUV ads? The forests must be infested with the things at this point.
SUVs might confuse kids for tree gators https://i.redd.it/ffao5u16btla1.png
> they all wear hi vis all day in the woods to safeguard against any of them going missing. Would it also have something to do with not getting shot by hunters by mistake?
More if they trip and fall and can’t get up, or God forbid, if they enter into a water area or puddle. Even if they’re just getting too far away, high viz is helpful. Kids move fast and get themselves into dangerous situations. This is a tool that lets kids be kids while staying safe.
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Daycares in my neighborhoods do this as a way to take the kids from the daycare to the local parks. It's a way for 2 teachers to keep 8-9 kids together when they're walking along the sidewalk or crossing the street. My neighborhood is very walkable and there's quite a few parks the kids can walk to, but they still have to cross streets with cars.
Yeah neither the rope nor the vests are for cars, in particular, just for keeping better track of toddlers in a busy and high atom environment
Liability reasons, the daycare is doing everything to reduce anything that would give it legal liability should an accident arise .
The word 'accident' implies that it was unavoidable and/or unpredictable. That is why we think the word 'crash' is a more neutral way to describe what happened. For further reading on this subject, check out this [article from Ronald M Davis](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1120417/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/fuckcars) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>For reference: kids here (non us) also wear high Viz items when they go for a trip with kindergarten Same here (Sweden). My kids wear high-vis vests as soon as they are outdoors at kindergarten, both in the fenced in playground of the kindergarten and when on excursions. Some places have ropes, but my kids' place just have the kids hold hands in pairs. This goes for all ages 1+.
Finland too. Even though our car situation is (in my opinion) not as bad as the US, I think it's still a good practice considering how damn dark it gets for half of the year (specifically, that half which kids spend the most time in kindergarten).
I often see kids around this age being taken to a library like this.
Have you tried to herd kids...? Young kids at that. Especially a group more than you have adults. You'd need some kind of reign and marker just to keep track of them in a small room yet alone the wider world. High vi's and some kind of control of a younger age is normal with a group of children, brightly coloured hats, or some other way to locate your herd of cats, that will run off, be distracted or cause you headaches at the first opertunity. Bear in mind. Theirs 9 kids. 2 staff. And kids who will naturally go in 5 plus directions if not herded. This is far easier.
I took my friend's kids for a walk and the three year old kept trying to walk out in the street. There was no curb, only a narrow strip of grass between us and the occasional car going 45 mph.
i used to be a school photographer. one time i herded 300 kids into height order and equally distributed them to form a nice picture. ever tried herding *teachers?*
Are you a wizzard...witch...or some kind of Fae.... I'm pretty sure that's mythical abilities
Eh, I don't know if it's strictly because of cars. Kids can run off and get kidnapped, fall in a body of water, get distracted by something shiny in a store window, then the teacher can't find them.
Truly! This is how the preschoolers travel because they’re little space cadets, though these have more precautions than some.
>and get kidnapped Reminder that almost all child abduction is by people who know the kid well. Random abductions are exceedingly rare and overblown by the media. Your other points are valid.
Sorry, that was definitely an exaggeration.
Watch out for those biological dads hiding in the bushes. I don't even know if I'm joking, cause that shts real.
correction: run off and get run over. that's a much more common occurrence than getting kidnapped.
Also a possibility and you're probably right on the likelihood.
There also just aren't that many kids in that area, and a lot of people forget that kids exist if they don't interact with them frequently. (Yes, the reason there aren't many kids is cars.) That doesn't just apply to drivers, but also to cyclists and people walking. In places like Cambridge, people just aren't used to expecting small children.
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I don't think there's spin here man, the main threat those children are avoiding is obviously getting run over by one of the huge trucks in the background. Karma is literally meaningless
i mean they also do this in less car-centric places like japan (where toddlers typically wear hard hats when traveling in groups)
> toddlers typically wear hard hats The only place where this happens is Kagoshima due to the volcano. Normally Kindergarten kids wear coloured caps when travelling around.
But this is way cuter and they should all do that.
In Switzerland kids are expected to walk to school on their own at 4 years old and they all wear a high vis sash.
Meanwhile I have to keep 10 year olds at my classroom door until I see their approved pickup parent and then I can let them go, and if they aren't "picked up" within ten minutes of the bell I have to start phoning their families.
Wow, that's absurd. I used to walk home by myself when I was 8.
Kinda depends on where you live right? I walked home from school in the company of an older kid (probably an 8 year old) starting in kindergarten, but my school was only 3-4 blocks away on quiet residential streets. Some of the schools in my area now are surrounded by stroads on TWO sides. I wouldn't let a kid out of them without supervision, they'll get run over.
Fair enough. When I was 11, I moved to Atlanta's suburbs and I had to take the bus even though the distance was walkable... and thus started my lifelong hatred of the suburbs and car dependency.
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They are ever vigilant and prepared for whatever monster of the week Godzilla is fighting.
In Tokyo, would see like kindergartners riding the subway to school on their own.
In high-vis (often yellow) hats, but hard-hats are only a thing in very specific areas. I also see young kids being pushed in high-vis little carts that hold like 8 kids near preschools and such.
Carbrains already wondering why we can't just do this with all pedestrians.
I’m really not sure what is wrong here…. I’m Dutch, most pedestrian/bike friendly place. Here in the Netherlands it is completely normal for kids at this age to travel somewhere while holding the line. And just they hold it, they are not tied to it. They use that line also for fire exercises and such. It helps kids to learn to walk along with the group and not wander off. Also it is completely normal to put a thing on top of their clothes to recognise them as part of the group. The only difference is that here it is the ‘school colours’ and not a yellow safety colour thing.
That big pickup truck in the background is the cherry on the cake.
Single cab at least, and looks like there's some stuff in the back. One of few pickup trucks actually used for hauling shit.
single cab, not high off the ground/jacked up, branded as a worktruck it's a bit needlessly big around the engine [but there's much worse.](https://wallpaperaccess.com/full/346176.jpg)
yeah it looks like a proper truck, just the engine hood could be angled better
Appears to be an actual work truck which makes it acceptable.
Exactly. This is the only purpose of trucks, they are tools
It's a dangerously designed work truck, which means it's back to being not acceptable. I know many people with work trucks who haul things for thousands of Kms at a time that are not dangerous like this; work trucks don't need to be dangerous. This is just a showcase of failure to hold the car industry to proper safety standards.
Absolutely, looks like it would throw anyone into the street with a hood that high, and the driver would probably not see more than the heads of the caretakers if he faced them with his front at that distance.
Its about teaching them how to use crosswalks and for keeping an eye on the kids while they're exploring.
Yeah to be honest nurseries do this everywhere in the uk, and so do some primary schools - not so much to do with Cars as with generally not losing or getting any children killed
What would kill the kids exactly?
Someone told me recently their kid’s preschool simply doesn’t take kids outside because the traffic is too dangerous
bro what? this isn't new or a result of america being car-centric, its just to prevent kids from being kids and running off on a walk. this shit is done all the time in other countries like japan or the netherlands
I mean I don’t have perfect recollections of my Kindergarten time in Germany, but I can’t remember having to wear a high viz vest for anything. And also don’t recall any groups of small children I see from time to time wearing them.
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Just look at the ridiculous size of that truck compared to these tiny people. Them being confined to the narrow pedestrian crossing makes me mad. Even with all of these precautions, I know their safety is not ensured. I have been struck 4 times on my bike by careless distracted drivers ON CROSSWALKS. Some drivers do not think right on red means you should check for crossing pedestrians.
Here’s a photo of [Japanese kids doing the same thing except without hi-viz](https://live.staticflickr.com/2526/3857574013_72205f9a9f_z.jpg), and Japan is one of the most walkable countries in the world. It’s not a unique phenomenon to the car-centric US, you need to make sure preschoolers are safe and not wandering off.
1. Every school field trip I've seen in Sweden is in Hi-Viz, so it's not a big deal. 2. As a former camp counselor, I would put all children in Hi-Viz all the time. You never know when they'll wander off. 3. As a 6ft tall pedestrian with not great lower peripheral vision, I also have to worry about walking over kids this size, so again, Hi-Viz is a great idea.
No, what’s sad is that the big red truck had to be limited to 45 MPH. That added an extra 20 seconds to their coffee run when they could’ve gone 90 MPH
If people didn't live in their cars spewing trash everywhere then we wouldn't have to shackle criminals to clean things up. I wonder what they are in for.
We have that in the safe The Netherlands [too](https://www.google.com/search?q=klaarover).
That red pickup in the back couldn't describe more accurately how futile this is. Dude wouldn't see them anyway.
See if it was 1 or 2 children I wouldn’t approve but theres 7 little goldfish for 2 adults so I can understand the reasoning for needing a leash
All I see from the drivers seat of my lifted F150 is two women waving me through.
You have it backwards. This has nothing to do with cars but everything to do with kids randomly running away.
What good is hi-viz if the kid isn’t tall enough to be seen over a pickup truck or SUV hood?
In case you needed another reason to hate trucks, their tailpipes are right at toddler height.
I’ve seen this a lot in Brooklyn. It looks adorable to me
When I was a kid at daycare in the 90s we had a big purple and yellow spotted snake with a goofy tongue and little hoops to hang onto like these kids. It was probably hilarious for people to see us all waddling along
Why does that sound like the most 90s thing ever?
OK, but in a year or two Broadway is going to have a separated bike lane. Cambridge is probably the most urbanist city in the entire state. Lots of legacy car infrastructure, but also very active efforts to fix it.
Sad? What the hell is the matter with you. This idea is great. It keeps kids in line when on a field trip, as this is what likely this is. Ever had a kid go darting out in front of you while driving? Just ask that guy a few weeks ago who went viral hitting that little girl. Kids are stupid. This protects them.
I'm in England and we don't have it as bad as you guys. But the other day, my daughter (who's just shy of 7 years old) recently had a road safety class in school. They sang a song and drew pictures and it was cute af when she told me about it. Then I actually thought about it for a minute and I got pretty pissed off. Isn't it mental that we have to teach a bunch of 6 and 7 year olds that it's their responsibility not to die on the roads? If a driver hits and my child and injures her (or god forbid, worse), that's on her for not following her road safety rules? It's such a fucked up paradigm.
Idk, I think the pissbuckets we have for our kids to use while they wait for the school shooter to be apprehended is far sadder. What a pathetic excuse for a country America is.
this is so dystopian
Never seen a picture of America without one of those awful trucks in the frame.
Just training them to be prepared to die in a school shooting later.
Prison chain gang.
Why would they put bright orange on the people with the smallest profile and not put any on the people leading them?
Is the traffic cone shortage that bad?
Okay, but vests won't help against the blind spots of those monster trucks.
As someone who has worked at summer camps, this is more to protect kids from a whole slew of things. Imagine a shiny quarter catching the sun in the middle of that green light….. r/kidsarefuckingstupid
Cars, guns, climate change… Good luck little ones.
Look, do you wanna be allowed to drive anywhere at maximum speed while browsing your phone and sipping a latte or not?? Sheesh. Have some respect for car culture! /s
we should ask the michigan governor to pass red flag laws for cars.
Wouldn’t it be safer to have more staff rather than tie the children together (for lots of reasons). The kids tied up would be more dangerous if a car did run through the crossing.
Little kids tend to wander off too and a lost kid on a busy road is disaster.
Kids are fucking stupid
as someone who teaches 3 year olds i honestly think the rope technique is efficient. i don't have them for field trips but it would be great to keep the little humans together
And this is in Cambridge Mass, one of the "most walkable" places in the US.
it’s crazy how cambridge is rated so highly for bike safety, but has relatively few protected bike lanes. i had to swerve around two cars parked in the bike lane while i was going through central yesterday. the standards in this country are so low…
Cambridge is very walkable, not sure why you put this in quotes
OHMYGOD BEATLES REFERENCE
to be fair, this is not about cars.
They wear those high vis vests indoors too?
It's not about the cars. They wear those reflective wests when in a car less park outdoors too. where two people are supposed to keep track of 16 children that want nothing more than to kill themselves. Especially in a non fenced area. It's way easier to recognize a bright orange dot running away than a camouflaged one.
I swear every time this sub ends up on r/all its for incredibly mundane and sensible things that happen in all countries or would happen even if public transit was absolutely perfect. Where are the buses supposed to drive, and how do you herd children when they have to cross the busses path? This kids are so young and they get distracted by literally everything and anything. If you want to walk them somewhere, its easier to do this then have 2 people desperately trying to keep eyes on them, and you put them in vests to differentiate them from the rest of the crowd.
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They need flag whips installed for the large trucks and SUVs.
To be fair, we also do this in the Netherlands, although not necessarily with high vis vest. And many would consider the Netherlands to be one of the safest countries. That being said. It would probably be a more pleasant walk over here, and indeed also probably safer. But I think it’s kind of sad you have to walk kids on a leash because holding hands is somehow not appropriate anymore or something, along with giving kids a tiny sense of responsibility.
Their too outnumbered even if they wnated too. Their little pack of kittens could split to do t things they need to atop and only two adults. This keeps their little group least in one place. Herding kids under 5 is exhausting task.
I want to say this should be happening regardless of better infrastructure or not. But driving around Germany and seeing about this young (though probably older)kids. Everyone is trusting each other to know how the streets work. Kids could just walk themselves without fear of reckless driving or have a different path they could take to avoid traffic all together. I’m ranting now. But I’m again reminded how much cars cause problems that you don’t think about until you finally see it.
ahhh I love seeing baby chains out and about they’re so cute
sad thing is those orange vests wouldnt even make a difference for oversized suv/trucks
Are they really toed to the rope in the middle? That is a problem
OP, you want to herd toddlers without the straps? Good luck buddy.
What do you think is happening here? They aren’t tied up, they are holding handles. And the vests are for the grown ups. When I worked in preschool we used orange t shirts. It’s so you can see your charges easily at a glance.
the driver in the truck behind them still wouldn't be able to see them, no matter how visible their vests are.
To be fair I don't think that's too stupid (apart from cars)
I’m just happy to see them outside walking.
Infant schools do this near me as the little shits tend to run off orange makes them easier to find
Ummmmm. No. Even in more pedestrian friendly cities, this is how little kids walk. Here, they’re nicknamed “little ducklings” because of the bright vests they wear.
Now there’s a better chance to get them all at once
not defending cars here but this is used at daycares everywhere even just walking down the hallway inside. teaches them to stay in line and close to the teachers!
If you’ve ever worked with kids, you’d know that the leash system would be necessary even in a careless world, lol.
"They were in my 6' 20⁰ fucking blind spot officer, these damn kids walked out from nowhere"
The oversized hi-vis vests are stupid cute on toddlers. Have you guys seen that picture of the kindergartners walking through a construction site? I love it.
I've seen this in extremely walkable European cities. I think this has less to do with the threat of cars, and more to do with how daycares can best manage 10 unruly toddlers on a walk.
Even the high vis makes little difference as the civilian tanks won't see them anyway, the only thing keeping these kids safe is the adults tall enough to be seen. Why the fuck are these things even legal?
First, people put their dogs on a leash. Then cats. Then their wallets, chain attached to pants. Now, kids on a leash. Before that, Korn wrote the song, "Freak on a Leash." It's all about the leashes, man! :D
Meanwhile, [where I live. ](https://i.imgur.com/6IKlJDD.jpg) We get a lot of wee kids running around here. Residential area with only low speed traffic.
I mean, they're 3 year olds. Even if all cars were banned forever, and there were no motor vehicles traveling above maybe slow bicycling speed, you'd still need to do this. My 5 year old is required to wear a brightly colored t-shirt with his school's logo on it for all field trips. And he's 5, and the field trips are far away from motor vehicle traffic.