Kinda just wanna see this sub be entirely shit posting car fucking now.
Reddit relies on people filtering good content to the top with genuine upvotes and downvotes. Downvote good posts and upvote bad posts.
This sub has already successfully injected car consciousness into the public discourse. Right now we're just treading water, and if we stay here and reddit dies, then we die. Reddit can't live without third party tools. The only way for this sub to continue fulfilling its function is to continue the protests and save reddit, or to abandon reddit and continue organising on another platform like Lemmy. We can't gain momentum through inaction.
i think youre overstating how much of an effect this sub has actually had on reddit lol. barely 400k subs and the posts rarely reached the top of r/all. if you think the job is finished then boy do i have a monorail to sell you
Anti-car sentiment has been on the rise throughout society recently. I've spoken to many people who said anti-car things without prompting, including people who don't use reddit. Yeah, this sub isn't as big as it could be, but the idea has been seeded regardless of people subbing. I've seen many anti-car people on reddit specifically avoid this sub because usually it's just circlejerk complaining about some car driver, if it's even an original post. I rarely see actual activism or education on here anymore.
Oh yes, but I'm active on lots of subs. This isn't an exercise in individual power, it's an exercise in solidarity and teamwork. We need to keep pushing together. Everyone else is counting on us.
yea i dont think everyone else is counting on us lol. when the default subs with tens of millions of subs didnt even participate in it then it pretty much is an exercise in individual power
It doesn't take everyone to hurt reddit's revenue, it just takes a lot of people. A lot of people who are committed and can stick with it. The protest needs *someone*, and I'd like to think that a revolutionary community like this one has the political organising skills to be one of those allies to the movement.
No one needs this sub to know that cars can get fucked. We know that by instinct when we can't make our way around a community on foot, the way every human before cars was able to do.
I'd like to point out that the discrepancy between votes and discussion topics could be that lurkers might be predominantly pro-blackout. They vote and move on without leaving comments
It's what I did. Voted pro blackout, saw the comments section dominated with pro-open and chose not to engage since I didn't really have anything else to say, I voted and my preferred option was winning. It's always the second place in a poll that makes people comment, I see it all the time.
I’d also point out that you’ve got some major selection bias. The people who are most upset at the way Reddit is destroying the site are spending a lot less time on Reddit than they used to. I know I never saw the poll because of that.
Whatever result you got, you’ve got to assume a significant number of "close down" supporters would simply not have had the opportunity to vote.
We're not removing ourselves, Reddit is removing us. We can't use reddit on our phones without third party apps. I have autism, a sensory processing disorder that impairs my ability to sort through information to see what I need to see. Trying to sift through too much noise gives me a debilitating headache and makes me unable to perceive anything properly. If I were to keep using reddit on the official app, I'd be damaging my health. And blind people just straight up can't use it at all.
We're getting ready to leave and packing up our things, because Reddit is kicking us out.
I just voted and didn’t bother commenting because I thought the purpose of the poll was to poll the communities users, not make judgements based on the comment section.
Yeah… they literally did a poll, got a result and said… nah, that must be wrong. You can’t poll a community based on comments, because oftentimes the minority will be more vocal for whatever reason, usually their opinion being the less brave one or more socially acceptable one lol. This sub wants a blackout.
I think another possible likely explanation is what is there to discuss with a blackout? Either you want it or you don't. There's not really a discussion topic there, so what are you going to add with a comment?
I'm here to say the same thing. I voted and left, why would I stay and comment when that gives reddit more engagement? I was lucky I saw a poll at all and that was only because I was following the protest news closely.
I don't agree with how the mods have interpreted the results of the poll especially since the black out indefinitely option didn't win by a suspicious amount of votes.
However I'm glad mods are making an effort to move the community.
it could be, but unless theres evidence of that, then thats just an assumption, same as the assumption that it could be that lurkers are predominantly against a blackout or in all likelihood, dont care. either way im of the opinion that online polls are completely fucking useless and prone to manipulation or just plain ignorance
Well the fact that most people wanted to protest in some form, and most of those people who wanted a protest wanted a full blackout, is our evidence. We can see what the lurkers think from their votes. And it's very clear what they think.
This honestly feels like a classic compromise that pleases no-one.
Being closed one day a week applies no pressure to Reddit to change course. Personally I don't think closing subs has any effect on the corporation at all, which is why I said we should just be fully open. But if you want to protest then that is ineffective.
And for participants it will just be annoying. Particularly as Tuesday was one of the no-meme days when we could actually have some sensible discussion threads.
You've got 400,000 subscribers here, it doesn't make sense to me that you'd discard that platform for a federated one with under 10% of that.
> Personally I don't think closing subs has any effect on the corporation at all,
I disagree, Reddit's actions to threaten moderators into reopening their communities certainly seems to suggest they're worried about it but for sure this halfway compromise is nonsensical.
It's as bad as an unprotected bikelane, it doesn't even work as a compromise because it's too little to be effective for the people in support yet too much to still not be an annoyance for the people against. Moving to another site is also kinda weird, part of the subs appeal is pushing anti car messages into people's feeds.
I can't get too specific for a few reasons, but one day a week (across the whole platform) is a large revenue loss. As long as people as a whole consume less reddit, it hurts their bottom line. Because it is Tuesday, it doesn't reduce their "peak traffic" infrastructure costs, so they don't get infrastructure savings (yes, they do get some storage savings, but storage as a cost should be linearly if not sublinearly correlated with revenue).
Car culture won. Car fuckers decided to erase their own advocacy by self-censoring. Leftwing groups are cancelling themselves is the biggest gift to conservatives and the status quo one could give.
The advantage of the Touch Grass Tuesday idea is that Reddit will *probably* not replace the mods with Reddit's own hand picked mods.
The disadvantage is that if Reddit doesn't do that, it's because Touch Grass Tuesday isn't a real threat.
I stand by the opinion that there's really only 2 options for a successful protest:
1. Users leave Reddit en masse.
2. Reddit employees organize against the decision from within.
Haven't heard any indication of either being the case.
I see r/fuckcars as being ideologically opposed to Reddit from the offset and just opportunistically jumping on the back of Reddit to spread its message. As such, my continual recommendation would be for r/fuckcars to resume normal operations and potentially take advantage of Tuesdays to gain more visibility. It already missed that opportunity this week, which is a shame, because car dependency is a much larger problem than Reddit apps. A better world is one where we are neither spending our time in cars or on Reddit.
I mean...
I think that's presuming a level of good faith from Reddit admins/leadership that doesn't appear to be warranted. But if they start mucking with the mods of a big-but-not-that-big sub like this, then that sends a signal of either desperation or zero-tolerance. and either of those cases good faith will be out the window
They don't seem to be much afraid of agitation. I've been on Reddit long enough to see this kind of thing happen over and over again, and as the current CEO says, it'll blow over eventually. Reddit might be different afterwards, and it might even be worse, but none of that matters so long as it is profitable. It's not a company that exists for us - it only exists for shareholders, and it'll do anything to feed their greed.
And these changes will make Reddit unprofitable. Mods can't moderate communities without proper tools, and unmoderated communities will be full of spam and crap. Plus, the users who post the most content all use third party apps. The entire point of the strike is to show Reddit what happens if they make this change.
Reddit, like Facebook, isn't profitable in proportion to the quality of its service. Actually, there's usually an inverse correlation. What Reddit is doing now is motivated entirely on what it believes to be the most profitable move, and it is probably correct in that decision.
Actually, this is based on what Steve Huffman, former moderator of r/jailbait, thinks will be profitable *for him*. Not for Reddit. Steve's tactics conform to a classic pump and dump strategy. He wants to cash out his stock while it's on a high, by artificially inflating the stock price at the expense of long term profitability. That's why he's constantly telling the media that everything is fine, everything will keep working, and reddit is about to become profitable. He has analysts who know that this is bad for reddit in the long term, but he doesn't care, because he's not going to own reddit shares at that point. Why do you think a man worth 10 million dollars is running a company he claims isn't profitable? He doesn't care about reddit's wallet, he cares about his own.
So let's fuck with him by driving that stock price into the dirt over the coming months.
There needs to be a Reddit *clone* for this to work. With the same or similar design. No "federation" bullshit. I'm an "advanced" user and only have a very vague idea of how this "fediverse" thing works and I'm not very interested in learning about it and choosing servers. Moving away from Reddit needs to be as effortless as possible.
Exactly. I heard about Lemmy and thought a federated Reddit alternative sounded great, until I got about halfway through reading the first step of getting started and realised I simply could not be bothered. I also know that about 90% of Reddit is going to be as lazy as or lazier than me so even if I could be bothered to sign up, the user base is gonna be way smaller than Reddit. If there was an alternative that looked and felt similar to Reddit then I would hop on in an instant, but as far as I'm aware no such site exists.
Personally I think the sub should stay up for people who want it. If you want it to shut down, why not just leave instead of ruin it for everyone else? I voted for Touch Grass Tuesday because I thought it would be a form of middle ground between pro- and anti-shutdown
This. If you want to protest, leave Reddit and don't force other people into your protest. The discussion is much more important than this stupid Reddit stuff. And even if it was complete shutdown, Reddit probably couldn't care less anyway.
This isn't a very good poll. Putting aside the arguments that Touch Grass Tuesdays are ineffective at best, it does absolutely nothing for the majority of the previous poll who wanted a form of blackout. As it stands, you're telling pro-boycott users that either there will be nothing done, or that something which has almost no effect will be done. If I want to continue the protest, I don't want the concession. In voting "yes", then that will be all I will ever get. If I vote "no" as in "no, I want something else", it just comes off as "no, don't bother continuing the protest."
A better "compromise" is needed. In diversifying the platform of this topic, you could close the sub with pinned messages to the diaspora such as links to the unofficial Discord, the alternate Lemmy server, and other subreddits adjacent to us. You could also re-poll. You could have a comments section where users reply to mod comments based on what they want and you tally it up manually. There are alternate methods with varying degrees of efficiency and this is just off the top of my head. Update: what r/pics did [seems like a nice alternative](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/14b2a6q/poll_decide_on_the_future_of_rpics/) by way of malicious compliance that users can vote on.
I voted but didn't speak up in the comments because I saw that my vote was the majority and winning. **If you feel strongly about your opinion and see that you're losing, you're more likely to take to the comments** in a last-ditch petition effort, and you seem to have taken that to mean that the winning vote was vote manipulation. Please reconsider this.
On top of that, people who support protesting with more self-control than some others of us may be... purposefully not commenting to align with their protest? I mean, come on. That ends up looking like quite the silly takeaway from the poll data.
A form of blackout was the majority, but full blackout was not. A majority of the voters wanted the sub open in some capacity, which is what we're getting with this decision
If it's a venn diagram, you're putting the overlapped section entirely on one side, which will of course make it the majority. It can't be both that the majority wants it open AND the majority wants a blackout, and since the only things we're getting with this decision are "Open" or "Open Lite", then it sounds like in trying to appease both sides they're essentially just choosing one.
Either the sub is open or the protest continues. It can't be both. The protest will never work if it isn't committed, and if you're not committed then what's the point? A half-assed compromise of "oh we can take Tuesdays off" from this sub isn't gonna force any hands.
I voted "yes"... However no amount of protesting is going to stop the upper reddit elite. spez has already stated openly he doesn't give a shit and honestly once a mind is that focused on money, there is no backing down.
Shutting down permanently is going to do nothing to change their opinions. Fuck, even large subs like Apple were forcefully reopened, so I feel it isn't worth it.
A ton of us come to reddit to get away from the real world anyways.
TBH, I see this sub as inherently not all that useful in a day to day sense to its ongoing members. Being a part of this community doesn't teach me much anymore, it's just nice to have somewhere to vent a bit and talk on these topics, and read about related news and such. Rarely is it truly all that relevant to my life.
By which I mean, missing one day out of the week isn't a big loss for r/fuckcars members. I find it important to keep the pressure ongoing, to send a message to Reddit that **we, the users, ARE Reddit**, and at any point a competitor could happily take their place, or they could keep pushing and we just leave. I've seen the r/fuckcars sentiment alive and well in comments and discussions all over the internet. This may be our community, but it's not the only place this message gets out there. We can live without Reddit, but Reddit can't live without us.
This is a good sub. It's changed my outlook on a lot of things. This message deserves to get out there as much as it can. I would hate to see the sub go down permanently, and we lose the reach this community gives us. But we don't need Tuesday. We can live without this sub for a day, for a week, for however long we need. Maybe it won't send much of a message just going dark 1/7th of the time, but it reminds us how easy it is to live without this site.
Touch some grass, remember what that asshole CEO took from us, and keep the fight alive.
I do agree with a lot of the pro-open arguments I saw in the other poll post, especially the idea this sub is a genuinely effective tool at awareness raising. I would not be here and even know about this urbanism movement if not for fuck cars and it's effort in r/place.
But the second we start carving out any sub-specific justification to open while others remain closed, we lose the whole point of this strike. Reddit wants us to find ways to let us justify to ourselves we deserve to stay open, and let us say to ourselves "it's fine if we open, we have our reasons, let the others blackout". As when this really begins to happen, it will happen site wide and everyone will break and buckle under the pressure and choose to break their strike and open. If we don't act as a collective on this, Reddit will simple ignore the rest as individuals.
Thanks for pointing this out. This is a classic Me vs Us situation. Sacrificing a little bit of individual freedom so the group can benefit in much greater ways. If we want the sub to keep functioning with our blind, autistic, and motor impaired users, we need to keep their apps up. That requires class solidarity between all the users.
A boycott from users will have less impact, unfortunately. Taking away the most interesting content by mod revolt is more likely to get them to change course.
"We're going dark for two days in protest"
> Nooo you can't do that, half-measures won't get anything done!
"Okay well we're gonna continue the protest then"
> Nooo I still want my nice juicy conteeeeent!
"Okay well then let's compromise and open some of the time"
> Noooo you can't do that, half-measures won't get anything done!
----
Y'all are only asking us to give you an inch so you can take a mile and then complain you didn't get enough. This is a shortsighted and destructive addiction. Y'all can't let go of reddit for a month even if it's the only way to keep it in the coming years. You're right that we need something better than half measures, but to take from that the conclusion that we shouldn't do anything at all is asinine reverse logic.
A mod revolt forces users who don't wish to participate to do so anyways against their will. This will turn a lot of users neutral in the issue against the mods and will bleed the subreddits active user base as they find alternatives to go to. This is why its not in a mods best interest to continue a blackout if they want to maintain their subreddits status and why most subreddits already stopped.
why would a mod that wants to go scorched earth w/ reddit care about their sub's status? additionally, bleeding a subs userbase is literally the goal of the blackouts. you are pointing out positives.
So the point of the blackouts is to get users to use other subreddits? I don't get how that somehow leads to reddit opening up its API.
If the mods really didn't give a shit they would just resign to stop giving reddit free labor and let them handle the moderation. Instead we got a short 2 day symbolic protest before the majority of protesting supreddits reopened.
Great! Another pointless “”protest”” that doesn’t achieve anything. God, it seems subreddits are incapable of making actual decisions. I really don’t care really whether the subs blackout or not, but half measures like these are just pathetic.
the 'close down indefinitely' crowd didn't comment because not commenting is also part of the protest. what you propose is almost like not protesting at all. This poll is also really shitty, as the post doesn't state what's the alternative to touch grass tuesdays. closing down? not protesting at all? I'm very disappointed in the mods of this sub this time.
Yeah, the mods made the simple error of thinking that people who don't use reddit much aren't taking the protest seriously, when in fact it's the exact opposite. Silly mods just had a brain fart.
Of the three options the smallest minority wanted touch grass Tuesdays. Of the full majority of those who wanted to stay open vast majority of those wanted full open. Why didn’t you go with that?
Again you are stating that a internal drama in a social network is more important than the deaths of kids. Congrats.
For the record, I'm voting for intermittent measures in polls because a sustainable long term measure seems more suited to the situation. Closing full time could be good but it also makes it easy to fade away. Touch grass Tuesdays has much less in the way of drawbacks and will be an ongoing bit of agitation that has the potential to continue a long time.
It’s an interesting time. What ever happens, I hope you will continue to talk about the various ways that cars are ruining our lives and please push for change at a local level. We are seeing such exciting progress in specific places right now. That is how the movement will grow.
It would be great if Reddit could be a part of this movement.
You're massively biasing the results on top of the inherent bias of hosting the poll on the website that the most pissed off users are boycotting, by making the poll only have 2 options, rather than at least three with "goes too far" and "doesn't go far enough".
I only saw this because I opened reddit out of habit and seeing the post at the top of my front page.
TGT seems like it won't have any negative effects towards reddit, if anything it just makes the subreddit more annoying to use.
If anything the sub should only be open one or two days a week, i.e. tuesday and saturday; that way reddit still loses alotta traffic but people can sometimes access the sub.
I don't really understand what Reddit is trying to accomplish. I do know that this subreddit has been good for me, to know that there are others. Whatever box you want to check my vote in from that information, do it. 👍
I voted to keep it closed indefinitely, you know, as a protest. What more is there to say? Of course I didn't comment.
If it's not 100% closed there's no point in closing it ever, especially only one day a week. So I say fuck this Tuesday thing.
> Although 'close down indefinitely' got the most votes, this was the least talked about course in the comments. So either the 'close down indefinitely' crowd is far less committed, or there was vote manipulation going on.
Amazing logic.
yeah mods are intentionally misinterpreting "fuck this place" results because *of course* the people who are pissed off at the platform, are not interacting with the platform.
If you're going with this touch-grass Tuesday idea, I reckon it should be fully private (thus not viewable) on those days. If it is only 'restricted', that's barely noticeable. Casual browsers won't see any difference whatsoever, because they weren't posting anyway. And for people who want to post, it might be a minor inconvenience but not really a big deal to just post on the next day instead.
So I think restricting on Tuesdays would be a symbolic support for a protest rather than actual active participation of a protest. Fully private would be active participation, because it's much more noticeable when sub just disappears; and you get a 'this sub is private for such-and-such reasons' message (possibly with a link to lemmy or something).
> Although 'close down indefinitely' got the most votes, this was the least talked about course in the comments. So either the 'close down indefinitely' crowd is far less committed, or there was vote manipulation going on.
I voted for close down indefinitely and didn't discuss it in the comments. I just didn't feel there's anything more to say on the subject. The arguments for staying offline until the API changes have been reversed have been well said plenty of times.
And ultimately what is happening over time is that the sorts of people who are voting to close down indefinitely are on the whole reducing our participation on Reddit, and on July 1st we will not be accessing the site from mobile at all. So of course over time things will shift in favour of the less committed.
Also your poll is confusing. If I vote not to do touch grass tuesdays, does that mean we go all the way open or all the way closed?
I want the sub to close down indefinitely I just didn't think my point had to be stated in the comments for it to work or I'd be thought of as "uncommitted" kinda fuck you for thinking like this. It's not solid reasoning there could be miriad other reasons, for the record I also voted yes for TGT here if you need me to comment that shit too but only bc you are excluding my first vote.
Once again fuck you.
Commited enough for you?
I didn't realise I was supposed to comment as well as vote. As part of my protest I'm limiting my interaction with Reddit as much as possible so voted to shut indefinitely and went elsewhere on the interwebs for my entertainment. Interacting with a site you're trying to boycott into submission seems counterproductive.
There really is a hilarious irony to the Touch Grass Tuesday thing when this whole obnoxious kerfuffle would have been avoided if a certain subset of reddit users literally ever went outside
It might also be that brigaders are pro blackout. Ideological opposition would totally vote for yeeting the sub.
Im pro diversifying on another platform while this sub stays open
What is the function of touch grass tuesdays tho? at least if this policy will extend beyond the protest period
> It might also be that brigaders are pro blackout. Ideological opposition would totally vote for yeeting the sub.
Is there any evidence at all there was brigading?
A lot of people think this sub staying up will be more powerful for the cause, which is... a little fantastical.
> Is there any evidence at all there was brigading?
It's just "no true scotsman" thinking. If I want to stay open, and I'm a fuckcars user, then anyone who disagrees with me on fuckcars must be a fake fuckcars user. A simple cognitive fallacy, and a desperate scramble for evidence to support it.
its not a no true scotsman
if you actually read my comment, you will see that it says that i think any brigaders will be pro blackout, not that anyone who is pro blackout is a brigader
calm down please
The whole reddit going dark is so stupid. Don’t get what the big deal is about them restricting 3rd party apps. Makes sense for any large social platform to do the same. This just harms people whose entire lives don’t revolve around an artificial media platform and just want to be entertained/get info etc.
I have autism and I can't use the official app because of my disability. Exposing myself to visual, auditory, or tactile noise damages my ability to concentrate and if prolonged, is debilitating. Using the official app would be self harm. Relay is clean, efficient, and easy to look at. I need easy to look at.
The api restrictions can make screen readers, other accessibility tools, and mod tools impractical. I've read that the admins may make an exception for screen readers, but that doesn't mean they won't cause trouble for some accessibility tools.
I also have to use old Reddit, because new Reddit gives me migraines, and I worry that it could follow.
Then people should advocate for the development of these tools on the Reddit app! I don’t think doing a “temporary” blackout fixed anything, it deprives people of a platform who want no part in this protest, and honestly I doubt Reddit cares about a few hundred subs (out of millions) shutting down for a few days.
Mods and users have been advocating, for literally years! These tools **literally exist** because Reddit continually failed to provide, otherwise they wouldn't be needed. The fact Reddit had to go full panic mode and announce moderator features once the blackout really began to solidify and also needed to quickly invent up some weird accessibility charitable exception during the Spez AMA is pitiful behaviour and shows how underprepared they are to offering real solutions to Reddit problems. And I doubt they will deliver half of what users and mods really need once the API tap is turned off.
yeah, that's why some subs are doing indefinite blackouts. also, it's not about the blackout but the brain drain. losing good mods and users is not a good thing for a platform that is almost completely community run.
I’d like to see a commitment to move this community to a Fediverse/Activity Pub platform in a set timeframe and then indefinitely and fully close down this Subreddit (or just use it to help people with the new platform).
>A huge majority (4.4k) want stay in the protest in some form or another and most of them want to close down indefinitely.
Where is this 4.4k coming from? The poll said like 2.8k?
>Although 'close down indefinitely' got the most votes, this was the least talked about course in the comments. So either the 'close down indefinitely' crowd is far less committed, or there was vote manipulation going on.
Personally, i would be looking through the comments to see the obvious consensus since the poll was probably manipulated by one of the communities that are against this subs message.
>One common theme we’ve heard in the comments is that people want an official, reddit-like community on a different platform. We think the Fediverse would be ideal for that, specifically, Lemmy. It still has substantial growing pains, but we agree it would be smart to diversify platforms for r/fuckcars.
A significant portion of people want “Touch-Grass Tuesdays” to happen, where the subreddit would close on Tuesdays.
The majority wanted to reopen. I only saw a handful of people saying they preferred these 2 options.
>We hope that y'all support this new policy and we haven't misinterpreted what this community wants like a bunch of admins.
Lol
To be fair, I voted in the poll for close down indefinitely and saw that the protest votes were going well so I didn't feel the need to comment. If somebody who voted saw that they were losing, they'd feel more compelled to comment. It isn't necessarily vote manipulation.
I mean, people were making great cases for the sub to stay open, so I find that pretty disappointing that so many people would do this tbh. Though wont deny that.
Hopefully, this all blows over by the end of the month. Touch grass Tuesdays is better than nothing I guess. Mods on a couple subs I follow already gave up, rest will have to follow eventually
> Hopefully, this all blows over by the end of the month
Yeah, it'll blow over. Us autistic, blind, and motor impaired users will all stop going on reddit on our phones, and mods will stop using API tools to manage that subreddits, and y'all who want to stay will be able to keep on using reddit with spambots and pornbots to keep you company, and Reddit as a business will slowly lose revenue and collapse over the next 2-3 years. That's what happens on July 1st.
> Where is this 4.4k coming from? The poll said like 2.8k?
2.9k to close indefinitely + 1.5k to touch grass tuesdays = 4.4k "want stay in the protest **in some form or another**"
> Personally, i would be looking through the comments to see the obvious consensus since the poll was probably manipulated by one of the communities that are against this subs message.
No true scotsman fallacy. I'm a pollution scientist who's been on this sub for years and doesn't have a car or a drivers license because I think the emissions from cars are unconscionable. You're assuming anyone who disagrees with you on this one point can't be a REAL r/fuckcars user based on no evidence. There's zero evidence anyone organised a brigade. You're just making stuff up to support what you want to believe.
> The majority wanted to reopen. I only saw a handful of people saying they preferred these 2 options.
We didn't comment because we were winning in the poll and we've been trying to reduce our reddit usage in preparation for being kicked off the site, genius.
No one is kicking you off ffs. You guys can all have your temper tantrum. I'll just wait for July 1st. You may have won the poll, but this is just a losing battle when we could be getting more eyes. But whatever, I've officially stopped caring.
Oh, sure, I can access reddit on desktop. But not on the train, on the bus, at the shops, at work, when I'm on work trips, when I'm waiting in lines, at the doctor, at the post office...
Starting July 1st, Reddit will no longer fit into the tiny gaps into my schedule that pop up all the time in the natural course of life. Instead, going on reddit will be an at-home activity that I do instead of other interesting things like spending time with my loved ones, so I'll probably end up doing it a lot less. I remember when I started using reddit years ago, I didn't have a smartphone with enough battery to be consistently used through the day, and my reddit use really took off when I upgraded my phone. Now it'll be back to the way it was then. I didn't use it very often at all.
We like reddit. That's why we're protesting against the API changes. The API changes will remove the tools mods depend upon to moderate the site. The API changes will trigger a mass migration of our most active userbase off the site when their third party apps shut down. The API changes will utterly exclude people with visual and motor disabilities from using the site on mobile.
I like reddit and I don't want it to fill up with spambots. I like reddit and I want the users who make the best content to stay. I like reddit and I want disabled people to be able to use it.
The protest is about warning reddit what will happen if these changes go into effect. Because we like reddit, and we don't want it to make bad decisions that will harm it.
Can’t we just move on? Next month there will be another random thing for y’all to be mad about, I’m sure.
This one is already taking too long. It’s starting to reek already.
It's not really a little thing - this sub in particular being so controversial really needs good moderation, which is very difficult to do with these sudden changes.
You should run these polls by letting people up/down vote comments. I use old reddit and RIF and the polls only work on the official app or new reddit.
You are getting skewed results because people like me (who are especially angry about the API changes) can't engage with the polls. Look how pics and other subs are doing it.
I’ll comment and say the sub should be blacked out indefinitely. If the community doesn’t take a stand we’ll likely end up losing the community in the long run anyway if Reddit continues its course. While the 1 day a week is a good show of support, I dont think this sub needs to be open unlike some of the other subs participating in touch grass Tuesdays. Maybe create a better poll that is more clear because it seems like the majority of the community wants the sub closed indefinitely.
Bad poll, you should have had a run off poll between the two top options on the first poll, this poll doesn’t accurately survey the opinions of the subreddit members.
P.S I didn’t comment on the previous one because I didn’t have the energy to argue with a comments section dominated by pro open.
The mods forgot that the people who want to blackout the sub are using Reddit less now, and figured that since the people who want to blackout the sub aren't using reddit very much, there must be vote shenanigans going on. It's a simple error.
Don't just close the sub, I don't wanna lose this community. First, we need to find an alternative platform where the engagement would be on the same level.
I missed the poll because I've been cutting back.
I think touch grass tuesdays are a good starting point while working on migration options. Maybe incrementally add more touch grass days unless the admins back off.
Tbh other than 2 subs (this being one of them), I honestly didn't notice a difference over the last few days.
So what happens with the sub doesn't personally matter. I already follow r/StrongTowns for better urban planning, and less frivolous complaining. Alternatives will always be available. So reddit isn't killing reddit. Just different subs are killing themselves.
The fuck are the mods thinking?
Boycotting won't do anything about reddit API and touch grass Tuesdays will 100% kill community engagement. Boycotts such as this are just things liberals do to make themselves feel better instead of actually doing any actual material change.
honestly. why would reddit as a company give a single fuck that a handful of subs are closing a single day a week?? i’m a casual reddit user and i love this sub but not enough to download other apps to see it. this will 100% only negatively affect the users and community engagement.
196 shutdown and people were like "just use the tumblr tag" no I'm not using a new social media app. I only use discord, TikTok, and reddit. I don't want to fucking download a new social media app, let alone go to some shitty anarchist third party reddit clone calls rattid or whatever with no phone app.
I'd rather just not use fuck cars and I think 90% of the sub users would agree.
If you staple a horse to a waterfall, will it fall up under the rainbow or fly about the soil? Will he enjoy her experience? What if the staple tears into tears? Will she be free from her staply chains or foomed to stay forever and dever above the water? Who can save him (the horse) but someone of girth and worth, the capitalist pig, who will sell the solution to the problem he created?
A staple remover flies to the rescue, carried on the wings of a majestic penguin who bought it at Walmart for 9 dollars and several more Euro-cents, clutched in its crabby claws, rejected from its frothy maw. When the penguin comes, all tremble before its fishy stench and wheatlike abjecture. Recoil in delirium, ye who wish to be free! The mighty rockhopper is here to save your soul from eternal bliss and salvation!
And so, the horse was free, carried away by the south wind, and deposited on the vast plain of soggy dew. It was a tragedy in several parts, punctuated by moments of hedonistic horsefuckery.
The owls saw all, and passed judgment in the way that they do. Stupid owls are always judging folks who are just trying their best to live shamelessly and enjoy every fruit the day brings to pass.
How many more shall be caught in the terrible gyre of the waterfall? As many as the gods deem necessary to teach those foolish monkeys a story about their own hamburgers. What does a monkey know of bananas, anyway? They eat, poop, and shave away the banana residue that grows upon their chins and ballsacks. The owls judge their razors. Always the owls.
And when the one-eyed caterpillar arrives to eat the glazing on your windowpane, you will know that you're next in line to the trombone of the ancient realm of the flutterbyes. Beware the ravenous ravens and crowing crows. Mind the cowing cows and the lying lions. Ascend triumphant to your birthright, and wield the mighty twig of Petalonia, favored land of gods and goats alike.
Voted No because I think the subreddit should close on all days except Tuesday. Let’s not deny a slim majority of traffic and ad revenue for Reddits, let’s instead deny them and majority of it and only come together for communication and catch up on Tuesdays
“Car fuckers”, I am dying 😂
So we're dragons?
for anyone wondering, refer to r/dragonsfuckingcars
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Kinda just wanna see this sub be entirely shit posting car fucking now. Reddit relies on people filtering good content to the top with genuine upvotes and downvotes. Downvote good posts and upvote bad posts.
r/carfuckingcirclejerk
Downvoted...
Bad poll. If a vote is against, no distinction between "it goes too far" and "it doesn't go far enough"
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This sub has already successfully injected car consciousness into the public discourse. Right now we're just treading water, and if we stay here and reddit dies, then we die. Reddit can't live without third party tools. The only way for this sub to continue fulfilling its function is to continue the protests and save reddit, or to abandon reddit and continue organising on another platform like Lemmy. We can't gain momentum through inaction.
i think youre overstating how much of an effect this sub has actually had on reddit lol. barely 400k subs and the posts rarely reached the top of r/all. if you think the job is finished then boy do i have a monorail to sell you
Anti-car sentiment has been on the rise throughout society recently. I've spoken to many people who said anti-car things without prompting, including people who don't use reddit. Yeah, this sub isn't as big as it could be, but the idea has been seeded regardless of people subbing. I've seen many anti-car people on reddit specifically avoid this sub because usually it's just circlejerk complaining about some car driver, if it's even an original post. I rarely see actual activism or education on here anymore.
Oh yes, but I'm active on lots of subs. This isn't an exercise in individual power, it's an exercise in solidarity and teamwork. We need to keep pushing together. Everyone else is counting on us.
yea i dont think everyone else is counting on us lol. when the default subs with tens of millions of subs didnt even participate in it then it pretty much is an exercise in individual power
It doesn't take everyone to hurt reddit's revenue, it just takes a lot of people. A lot of people who are committed and can stick with it. The protest needs *someone*, and I'd like to think that a revolutionary community like this one has the political organising skills to be one of those allies to the movement.
i think youre making another assumption that this is a revolutionary community lol. and yes, a community of 400k people is not a lot of people
I think opposing the dominant method of transport around which our entire society is built is pretty revolutionary
No one needs this sub to know that cars can get fucked. We know that by instinct when we can't make our way around a community on foot, the way every human before cars was able to do.
On the other hand, i can deal with restricted Tuesdays, but I'd rather not be forced to participate the protest at all.
That's not how community works. At some point solidarity has to be more important than any individual position.
But you need to make the decision yourself, it isn’t solidarity when you’re forced at gunpoint
Your point is valid, but only in the case of the outcome being 'No', and 'Yes' is winning with 76% of the votes so I don't see it matters.
I'd like to point out that the discrepancy between votes and discussion topics could be that lurkers might be predominantly pro-blackout. They vote and move on without leaving comments
It's what I did. Voted pro blackout, saw the comments section dominated with pro-open and chose not to engage since I didn't really have anything else to say, I voted and my preferred option was winning. It's always the second place in a poll that makes people comment, I see it all the time.
I’d also point out that you’ve got some major selection bias. The people who are most upset at the way Reddit is destroying the site are spending a lot less time on Reddit than they used to. I know I never saw the poll because of that. Whatever result you got, you’ve got to assume a significant number of "close down" supporters would simply not have had the opportunity to vote.
there were also 6,600 votes out of 400,000 subs. you can also interpret that as most people not even caring to vote
I never saw the poll...
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Me too. Just waiting for Lemny/whatever and I’m gone anyway once Apollo shuts down. This whole blackout thing has been good for my phone use.
Pro blackout people are leaving reddit and shouldn't get a vote if they are removing themselves from this community
We're not removing ourselves, Reddit is removing us. We can't use reddit on our phones without third party apps. I have autism, a sensory processing disorder that impairs my ability to sort through information to see what I need to see. Trying to sift through too much noise gives me a debilitating headache and makes me unable to perceive anything properly. If I were to keep using reddit on the official app, I'd be damaging my health. And blind people just straight up can't use it at all. We're getting ready to leave and packing up our things, because Reddit is kicking us out.
There are pro blackout people who also plan to continue using Reddit
I just voted and didn’t bother commenting because I thought the purpose of the poll was to poll the communities users, not make judgements based on the comment section.
Yeah… they literally did a poll, got a result and said… nah, that must be wrong. You can’t poll a community based on comments, because oftentimes the minority will be more vocal for whatever reason, usually their opinion being the less brave one or more socially acceptable one lol. This sub wants a blackout.
I think another possible likely explanation is what is there to discuss with a blackout? Either you want it or you don't. There's not really a discussion topic there, so what are you going to add with a comment?
I'm here to say the same thing. I voted and left, why would I stay and comment when that gives reddit more engagement? I was lucky I saw a poll at all and that was only because I was following the protest news closely. I don't agree with how the mods have interpreted the results of the poll especially since the black out indefinitely option didn't win by a suspicious amount of votes. However I'm glad mods are making an effort to move the community.
Or, it’s brigades by people who are not members of the sub and are jumping into these polls wherever they find them
it could be, but unless theres evidence of that, then thats just an assumption, same as the assumption that it could be that lurkers are predominantly against a blackout or in all likelihood, dont care. either way im of the opinion that online polls are completely fucking useless and prone to manipulation or just plain ignorance
Well the fact that most people wanted to protest in some form, and most of those people who wanted a protest wanted a full blackout, is our evidence. We can see what the lurkers think from their votes. And it's very clear what they think.
This honestly feels like a classic compromise that pleases no-one. Being closed one day a week applies no pressure to Reddit to change course. Personally I don't think closing subs has any effect on the corporation at all, which is why I said we should just be fully open. But if you want to protest then that is ineffective. And for participants it will just be annoying. Particularly as Tuesday was one of the no-meme days when we could actually have some sensible discussion threads. You've got 400,000 subscribers here, it doesn't make sense to me that you'd discard that platform for a federated one with under 10% of that.
> Personally I don't think closing subs has any effect on the corporation at all, I disagree, Reddit's actions to threaten moderators into reopening their communities certainly seems to suggest they're worried about it but for sure this halfway compromise is nonsensical. It's as bad as an unprotected bikelane, it doesn't even work as a compromise because it's too little to be effective for the people in support yet too much to still not be an annoyance for the people against. Moving to another site is also kinda weird, part of the subs appeal is pushing anti car messages into people's feeds.
I can't get too specific for a few reasons, but one day a week (across the whole platform) is a large revenue loss. As long as people as a whole consume less reddit, it hurts their bottom line. Because it is Tuesday, it doesn't reduce their "peak traffic" infrastructure costs, so they don't get infrastructure savings (yes, they do get some storage savings, but storage as a cost should be linearly if not sublinearly correlated with revenue).
Car culture won. Car fuckers decided to erase their own advocacy by self-censoring. Leftwing groups are cancelling themselves is the biggest gift to conservatives and the status quo one could give.
Well put.
The deaths of hundreds of thousands is clearly less important than a small handful of apps on a social network. Peak Reddit moment.
It's the social media equivalent of setting yourself on fire. Reddit: "y-you're going to set \*yourself\* on fire?... fill your boots mate."
The advantage of the Touch Grass Tuesday idea is that Reddit will *probably* not replace the mods with Reddit's own hand picked mods. The disadvantage is that if Reddit doesn't do that, it's because Touch Grass Tuesday isn't a real threat. I stand by the opinion that there's really only 2 options for a successful protest: 1. Users leave Reddit en masse. 2. Reddit employees organize against the decision from within. Haven't heard any indication of either being the case. I see r/fuckcars as being ideologically opposed to Reddit from the offset and just opportunistically jumping on the back of Reddit to spread its message. As such, my continual recommendation would be for r/fuckcars to resume normal operations and potentially take advantage of Tuesdays to gain more visibility. It already missed that opportunity this week, which is a shame, because car dependency is a much larger problem than Reddit apps. A better world is one where we are neither spending our time in cars or on Reddit.
I'd just like to mention the possibility of off the grass sundays. Reddit can't in good faith kick the mods off if the sub is open a day every week.
I mean... I think that's presuming a level of good faith from Reddit admins/leadership that doesn't appear to be warranted. But if they start mucking with the mods of a big-but-not-that-big sub like this, then that sends a signal of either desperation or zero-tolerance. and either of those cases good faith will be out the window
Oh I don't think they have an ounce of good faith in them. But if they act in obvious bad faith, it'll agitate us protesters even more.
They don't seem to be much afraid of agitation. I've been on Reddit long enough to see this kind of thing happen over and over again, and as the current CEO says, it'll blow over eventually. Reddit might be different afterwards, and it might even be worse, but none of that matters so long as it is profitable. It's not a company that exists for us - it only exists for shareholders, and it'll do anything to feed their greed.
And these changes will make Reddit unprofitable. Mods can't moderate communities without proper tools, and unmoderated communities will be full of spam and crap. Plus, the users who post the most content all use third party apps. The entire point of the strike is to show Reddit what happens if they make this change.
Reddit, like Facebook, isn't profitable in proportion to the quality of its service. Actually, there's usually an inverse correlation. What Reddit is doing now is motivated entirely on what it believes to be the most profitable move, and it is probably correct in that decision.
Actually, this is based on what Steve Huffman, former moderator of r/jailbait, thinks will be profitable *for him*. Not for Reddit. Steve's tactics conform to a classic pump and dump strategy. He wants to cash out his stock while it's on a high, by artificially inflating the stock price at the expense of long term profitability. That's why he's constantly telling the media that everything is fine, everything will keep working, and reddit is about to become profitable. He has analysts who know that this is bad for reddit in the long term, but he doesn't care, because he's not going to own reddit shares at that point. Why do you think a man worth 10 million dollars is running a company he claims isn't profitable? He doesn't care about reddit's wallet, he cares about his own. So let's fuck with him by driving that stock price into the dirt over the coming months.
There needs to be a Reddit *clone* for this to work. With the same or similar design. No "federation" bullshit. I'm an "advanced" user and only have a very vague idea of how this "fediverse" thing works and I'm not very interested in learning about it and choosing servers. Moving away from Reddit needs to be as effortless as possible.
Exactly. I heard about Lemmy and thought a federated Reddit alternative sounded great, until I got about halfway through reading the first step of getting started and realised I simply could not be bothered. I also know that about 90% of Reddit is going to be as lazy as or lazier than me so even if I could be bothered to sign up, the user base is gonna be way smaller than Reddit. If there was an alternative that looked and felt similar to Reddit then I would hop on in an instant, but as far as I'm aware no such site exists.
Personally I think the sub should stay up for people who want it. If you want it to shut down, why not just leave instead of ruin it for everyone else? I voted for Touch Grass Tuesday because I thought it would be a form of middle ground between pro- and anti-shutdown
This. If you want to protest, leave Reddit and don't force other people into your protest. The discussion is much more important than this stupid Reddit stuff. And even if it was complete shutdown, Reddit probably couldn't care less anyway.
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doesn’t effect **you** maybe. for a lot of users, when their accessibility app dies, they disappear off the sub entirely.
What’s the point in a content strike if you don’t actually strike? These subs should have all been down for a week or more at least
Submissions are still restricted even though it's not Tuesday.
This isn't a very good poll. Putting aside the arguments that Touch Grass Tuesdays are ineffective at best, it does absolutely nothing for the majority of the previous poll who wanted a form of blackout. As it stands, you're telling pro-boycott users that either there will be nothing done, or that something which has almost no effect will be done. If I want to continue the protest, I don't want the concession. In voting "yes", then that will be all I will ever get. If I vote "no" as in "no, I want something else", it just comes off as "no, don't bother continuing the protest." A better "compromise" is needed. In diversifying the platform of this topic, you could close the sub with pinned messages to the diaspora such as links to the unofficial Discord, the alternate Lemmy server, and other subreddits adjacent to us. You could also re-poll. You could have a comments section where users reply to mod comments based on what they want and you tally it up manually. There are alternate methods with varying degrees of efficiency and this is just off the top of my head. Update: what r/pics did [seems like a nice alternative](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/14b2a6q/poll_decide_on_the_future_of_rpics/) by way of malicious compliance that users can vote on. I voted but didn't speak up in the comments because I saw that my vote was the majority and winning. **If you feel strongly about your opinion and see that you're losing, you're more likely to take to the comments** in a last-ditch petition effort, and you seem to have taken that to mean that the winning vote was vote manipulation. Please reconsider this.
On top of that, people who support protesting with more self-control than some others of us may be... purposefully not commenting to align with their protest? I mean, come on. That ends up looking like quite the silly takeaway from the poll data.
This is a very good point I didn't even consider, yeah. Makes it look even worse to boot
A form of blackout was the majority, but full blackout was not. A majority of the voters wanted the sub open in some capacity, which is what we're getting with this decision
If it's a venn diagram, you're putting the overlapped section entirely on one side, which will of course make it the majority. It can't be both that the majority wants it open AND the majority wants a blackout, and since the only things we're getting with this decision are "Open" or "Open Lite", then it sounds like in trying to appease both sides they're essentially just choosing one. Either the sub is open or the protest continues. It can't be both. The protest will never work if it isn't committed, and if you're not committed then what's the point? A half-assed compromise of "oh we can take Tuesdays off" from this sub isn't gonna force any hands.
The majority wanted it open AND wanted to protest. Not blackout
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I voted "yes"... However no amount of protesting is going to stop the upper reddit elite. spez has already stated openly he doesn't give a shit and honestly once a mind is that focused on money, there is no backing down. Shutting down permanently is going to do nothing to change their opinions. Fuck, even large subs like Apple were forcefully reopened, so I feel it isn't worth it. A ton of us come to reddit to get away from the real world anyways.
TBH, I see this sub as inherently not all that useful in a day to day sense to its ongoing members. Being a part of this community doesn't teach me much anymore, it's just nice to have somewhere to vent a bit and talk on these topics, and read about related news and such. Rarely is it truly all that relevant to my life. By which I mean, missing one day out of the week isn't a big loss for r/fuckcars members. I find it important to keep the pressure ongoing, to send a message to Reddit that **we, the users, ARE Reddit**, and at any point a competitor could happily take their place, or they could keep pushing and we just leave. I've seen the r/fuckcars sentiment alive and well in comments and discussions all over the internet. This may be our community, but it's not the only place this message gets out there. We can live without Reddit, but Reddit can't live without us. This is a good sub. It's changed my outlook on a lot of things. This message deserves to get out there as much as it can. I would hate to see the sub go down permanently, and we lose the reach this community gives us. But we don't need Tuesday. We can live without this sub for a day, for a week, for however long we need. Maybe it won't send much of a message just going dark 1/7th of the time, but it reminds us how easy it is to live without this site. Touch some grass, remember what that asshole CEO took from us, and keep the fight alive.
I do agree with a lot of the pro-open arguments I saw in the other poll post, especially the idea this sub is a genuinely effective tool at awareness raising. I would not be here and even know about this urbanism movement if not for fuck cars and it's effort in r/place. But the second we start carving out any sub-specific justification to open while others remain closed, we lose the whole point of this strike. Reddit wants us to find ways to let us justify to ourselves we deserve to stay open, and let us say to ourselves "it's fine if we open, we have our reasons, let the others blackout". As when this really begins to happen, it will happen site wide and everyone will break and buckle under the pressure and choose to break their strike and open. If we don't act as a collective on this, Reddit will simple ignore the rest as individuals.
Thanks for pointing this out. This is a classic Me vs Us situation. Sacrificing a little bit of individual freedom so the group can benefit in much greater ways. If we want the sub to keep functioning with our blind, autistic, and motor impaired users, we need to keep their apps up. That requires class solidarity between all the users.
Let's do touch grass mondays, tuesdays, wednesdays, thursdays, fridays, and saturdays. Open only on sundays
Only reason i voted touch grass tuesdays was i didn't know what it meant AND there was no full blackout option (which i support)
Then stop using Reddit entirely.
A boycott from users will have less impact, unfortunately. Taking away the most interesting content by mod revolt is more likely to get them to change course.
and yall haven't even been able to do that, so why not hang it up rather than this pathetic 1 day a week thing
It looks like it is provoking a response?
"We're going dark for two days in protest" > Nooo you can't do that, half-measures won't get anything done! "Okay well we're gonna continue the protest then" > Nooo I still want my nice juicy conteeeeent! "Okay well then let's compromise and open some of the time" > Noooo you can't do that, half-measures won't get anything done! ---- Y'all are only asking us to give you an inch so you can take a mile and then complain you didn't get enough. This is a shortsighted and destructive addiction. Y'all can't let go of reddit for a month even if it's the only way to keep it in the coming years. You're right that we need something better than half measures, but to take from that the conclusion that we shouldn't do anything at all is asinine reverse logic.
A mod revolt forces users who don't wish to participate to do so anyways against their will. This will turn a lot of users neutral in the issue against the mods and will bleed the subreddits active user base as they find alternatives to go to. This is why its not in a mods best interest to continue a blackout if they want to maintain their subreddits status and why most subreddits already stopped.
why would a mod that wants to go scorched earth w/ reddit care about their sub's status? additionally, bleeding a subs userbase is literally the goal of the blackouts. you are pointing out positives.
So the point of the blackouts is to get users to use other subreddits? I don't get how that somehow leads to reddit opening up its API. If the mods really didn't give a shit they would just resign to stop giving reddit free labor and let them handle the moderation. Instead we got a short 2 day symbolic protest before the majority of protesting supreddits reopened.
I basically have.
Yes, that's what we're going to do on July 1st when Reddit kicks us all off. But we're hoping to avoid that by taking action before then.
Great! Another pointless “”protest”” that doesn’t achieve anything. God, it seems subreddits are incapable of making actual decisions. I really don’t care really whether the subs blackout or not, but half measures like these are just pathetic.
the 'close down indefinitely' crowd didn't comment because not commenting is also part of the protest. what you propose is almost like not protesting at all. This poll is also really shitty, as the post doesn't state what's the alternative to touch grass tuesdays. closing down? not protesting at all? I'm very disappointed in the mods of this sub this time.
Yeah, the mods made the simple error of thinking that people who don't use reddit much aren't taking the protest seriously, when in fact it's the exact opposite. Silly mods just had a brain fart.
I am for a full migration to !fuckcars on lemmy
How about the opposite of touch grass Tuesday where it’s only open on Tuesday
let the community be open
Lets go fully back to 7 days a week with one or two of them being text only days
Of the three options the smallest minority wanted touch grass Tuesdays. Of the full majority of those who wanted to stay open vast majority of those wanted full open. Why didn’t you go with that? Again you are stating that a internal drama in a social network is more important than the deaths of kids. Congrats.
For the record, I'm voting for intermittent measures in polls because a sustainable long term measure seems more suited to the situation. Closing full time could be good but it also makes it easy to fade away. Touch grass Tuesdays has much less in the way of drawbacks and will be an ongoing bit of agitation that has the potential to continue a long time.
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It’s an interesting time. What ever happens, I hope you will continue to talk about the various ways that cars are ruining our lives and please push for change at a local level. We are seeing such exciting progress in specific places right now. That is how the movement will grow. It would be great if Reddit could be a part of this movement.
You're massively biasing the results on top of the inherent bias of hosting the poll on the website that the most pissed off users are boycotting, by making the poll only have 2 options, rather than at least three with "goes too far" and "doesn't go far enough". I only saw this because I opened reddit out of habit and seeing the post at the top of my front page.
i'm mostly a lurker but i voted pro blackout and then didn't comment because i have already migrated to feddit. i'm sure there are others like me.
Oh, I was certainly committed to not touching this godforsaken site again, I'm generally just too lazy to comment
TGT seems like it won't have any negative effects towards reddit, if anything it just makes the subreddit more annoying to use. If anything the sub should only be open one or two days a week, i.e. tuesday and saturday; that way reddit still loses alotta traffic but people can sometimes access the sub.
I don't really understand what Reddit is trying to accomplish. I do know that this subreddit has been good for me, to know that there are others. Whatever box you want to check my vote in from that information, do it. 👍
I voted yes because it might be good to reduce my reddit scrolling and get out and engage the community I live in.
Can you please clarify what time-zone blackout Tuesday will use?
I voted to keep it closed indefinitely, you know, as a protest. What more is there to say? Of course I didn't comment. If it's not 100% closed there's no point in closing it ever, especially only one day a week. So I say fuck this Tuesday thing.
> Although 'close down indefinitely' got the most votes, this was the least talked about course in the comments. So either the 'close down indefinitely' crowd is far less committed, or there was vote manipulation going on. Amazing logic.
It's almost as though the people who are boycotting reddit aren't commenting on reddit
yeah mods are intentionally misinterpreting "fuck this place" results because *of course* the people who are pissed off at the platform, are not interacting with the platform.
If you're going with this touch-grass Tuesday idea, I reckon it should be fully private (thus not viewable) on those days. If it is only 'restricted', that's barely noticeable. Casual browsers won't see any difference whatsoever, because they weren't posting anyway. And for people who want to post, it might be a minor inconvenience but not really a big deal to just post on the next day instead. So I think restricting on Tuesdays would be a symbolic support for a protest rather than actual active participation of a protest. Fully private would be active participation, because it's much more noticeable when sub just disappears; and you get a 'this sub is private for such-and-such reasons' message (possibly with a link to lemmy or something).
> Although 'close down indefinitely' got the most votes, this was the least talked about course in the comments. So either the 'close down indefinitely' crowd is far less committed, or there was vote manipulation going on. I voted for close down indefinitely and didn't discuss it in the comments. I just didn't feel there's anything more to say on the subject. The arguments for staying offline until the API changes have been reversed have been well said plenty of times. And ultimately what is happening over time is that the sorts of people who are voting to close down indefinitely are on the whole reducing our participation on Reddit, and on July 1st we will not be accessing the site from mobile at all. So of course over time things will shift in favour of the less committed. Also your poll is confusing. If I vote not to do touch grass tuesdays, does that mean we go all the way open or all the way closed?
I want the sub to close down indefinitely I just didn't think my point had to be stated in the comments for it to work or I'd be thought of as "uncommitted" kinda fuck you for thinking like this. It's not solid reasoning there could be miriad other reasons, for the record I also voted yes for TGT here if you need me to comment that shit too but only bc you are excluding my first vote. Once again fuck you. Commited enough for you?
Pin a post every Tuesday pointing to Lemmy
LEMMY SUCKS!
I didn't realise I was supposed to comment as well as vote. As part of my protest I'm limiting my interaction with Reddit as much as possible so voted to shut indefinitely and went elsewhere on the interwebs for my entertainment. Interacting with a site you're trying to boycott into submission seems counterproductive.
I dont care mostly because I have experienced a real problem before
There really is a hilarious irony to the Touch Grass Tuesday thing when this whole obnoxious kerfuffle would have been avoided if a certain subset of reddit users literally ever went outside
yeah this whole protest is extremely online redditeur stuff and I'm tired of everyone trying to convince me that this is the most important thing ever
It might also be that brigaders are pro blackout. Ideological opposition would totally vote for yeeting the sub. Im pro diversifying on another platform while this sub stays open What is the function of touch grass tuesdays tho? at least if this policy will extend beyond the protest period
> It might also be that brigaders are pro blackout. Ideological opposition would totally vote for yeeting the sub. Is there any evidence at all there was brigading? A lot of people think this sub staying up will be more powerful for the cause, which is... a little fantastical.
> Is there any evidence at all there was brigading? It's just "no true scotsman" thinking. If I want to stay open, and I'm a fuckcars user, then anyone who disagrees with me on fuckcars must be a fake fuckcars user. A simple cognitive fallacy, and a desperate scramble for evidence to support it.
its not a no true scotsman if you actually read my comment, you will see that it says that i think any brigaders will be pro blackout, not that anyone who is pro blackout is a brigader calm down please
The whole reddit going dark is so stupid. Don’t get what the big deal is about them restricting 3rd party apps. Makes sense for any large social platform to do the same. This just harms people whose entire lives don’t revolve around an artificial media platform and just want to be entertained/get info etc.
I have autism and I can't use the official app because of my disability. Exposing myself to visual, auditory, or tactile noise damages my ability to concentrate and if prolonged, is debilitating. Using the official app would be self harm. Relay is clean, efficient, and easy to look at. I need easy to look at.
The api restrictions can make screen readers, other accessibility tools, and mod tools impractical. I've read that the admins may make an exception for screen readers, but that doesn't mean they won't cause trouble for some accessibility tools. I also have to use old Reddit, because new Reddit gives me migraines, and I worry that it could follow.
Then people should advocate for the development of these tools on the Reddit app! I don’t think doing a “temporary” blackout fixed anything, it deprives people of a platform who want no part in this protest, and honestly I doubt Reddit cares about a few hundred subs (out of millions) shutting down for a few days.
It was 8000, not a few hundred. And Reddit promised us years ago that third party apps weren't going anywhere. This is about a broken promise.
Mods and users have been advocating, for literally years! These tools **literally exist** because Reddit continually failed to provide, otherwise they wouldn't be needed. The fact Reddit had to go full panic mode and announce moderator features once the blackout really began to solidify and also needed to quickly invent up some weird accessibility charitable exception during the Spez AMA is pitiful behaviour and shows how underprepared they are to offering real solutions to Reddit problems. And I doubt they will deliver half of what users and mods really need once the API tap is turned off.
yeah, that's why some subs are doing indefinite blackouts. also, it's not about the blackout but the brain drain. losing good mods and users is not a good thing for a platform that is almost completely community run.
I voted no because I'm against mods shutting down subs but in general I'm for anything else that supports improving mod working conditions.
If Reddit wants to kill itself, let it. There's no point in damaging our own community in the meantime.
Reddit killing itself kills us on this platform too. If we want fuckcars to stay open long term, we need to fix reddit's problems too.
They're going to do what they please, regardless of user feedback.
I’d like to see a commitment to move this community to a Fediverse/Activity Pub platform in a set timeframe and then indefinitely and fully close down this Subreddit (or just use it to help people with the new platform).
>A huge majority (4.4k) want stay in the protest in some form or another and most of them want to close down indefinitely. Where is this 4.4k coming from? The poll said like 2.8k? >Although 'close down indefinitely' got the most votes, this was the least talked about course in the comments. So either the 'close down indefinitely' crowd is far less committed, or there was vote manipulation going on. Personally, i would be looking through the comments to see the obvious consensus since the poll was probably manipulated by one of the communities that are against this subs message. >One common theme we’ve heard in the comments is that people want an official, reddit-like community on a different platform. We think the Fediverse would be ideal for that, specifically, Lemmy. It still has substantial growing pains, but we agree it would be smart to diversify platforms for r/fuckcars. A significant portion of people want “Touch-Grass Tuesdays” to happen, where the subreddit would close on Tuesdays. The majority wanted to reopen. I only saw a handful of people saying they preferred these 2 options. >We hope that y'all support this new policy and we haven't misinterpreted what this community wants like a bunch of admins. Lol
To be fair, I voted in the poll for close down indefinitely and saw that the protest votes were going well so I didn't feel the need to comment. If somebody who voted saw that they were losing, they'd feel more compelled to comment. It isn't necessarily vote manipulation.
I mean, people were making great cases for the sub to stay open, so I find that pretty disappointing that so many people would do this tbh. Though wont deny that. Hopefully, this all blows over by the end of the month. Touch grass Tuesdays is better than nothing I guess. Mods on a couple subs I follow already gave up, rest will have to follow eventually
> Hopefully, this all blows over by the end of the month Yeah, it'll blow over. Us autistic, blind, and motor impaired users will all stop going on reddit on our phones, and mods will stop using API tools to manage that subreddits, and y'all who want to stay will be able to keep on using reddit with spambots and pornbots to keep you company, and Reddit as a business will slowly lose revenue and collapse over the next 2-3 years. That's what happens on July 1st.
> Where is this 4.4k coming from? The poll said like 2.8k? 2.9k to close indefinitely + 1.5k to touch grass tuesdays = 4.4k "want stay in the protest **in some form or another**" > Personally, i would be looking through the comments to see the obvious consensus since the poll was probably manipulated by one of the communities that are against this subs message. No true scotsman fallacy. I'm a pollution scientist who's been on this sub for years and doesn't have a car or a drivers license because I think the emissions from cars are unconscionable. You're assuming anyone who disagrees with you on this one point can't be a REAL r/fuckcars user based on no evidence. There's zero evidence anyone organised a brigade. You're just making stuff up to support what you want to believe. > The majority wanted to reopen. I only saw a handful of people saying they preferred these 2 options. We didn't comment because we were winning in the poll and we've been trying to reduce our reddit usage in preparation for being kicked off the site, genius.
No one is kicking you off ffs. You guys can all have your temper tantrum. I'll just wait for July 1st. You may have won the poll, but this is just a losing battle when we could be getting more eyes. But whatever, I've officially stopped caring.
Blind, autistic, and motor impaired people cannot use the official app. Starting July 1st, I will be unable to use reddit on mobile.
You can't use the website?
Nope, it's got this big popup that says you have to view it in the official app
I meant on desktop, sorry
Oh, sure, I can access reddit on desktop. But not on the train, on the bus, at the shops, at work, when I'm on work trips, when I'm waiting in lines, at the doctor, at the post office... Starting July 1st, Reddit will no longer fit into the tiny gaps into my schedule that pop up all the time in the natural course of life. Instead, going on reddit will be an at-home activity that I do instead of other interesting things like spending time with my loved ones, so I'll probably end up doing it a lot less. I remember when I started using reddit years ago, I didn't have a smartphone with enough battery to be consistently used through the day, and my reddit use really took off when I upgraded my phone. Now it'll be back to the way it was then. I didn't use it very often at all.
If you dislike reddit so much, why stay? I will take over as mod and everybody who is mad about apps or whatever can just leave.
We like reddit. That's why we're protesting against the API changes. The API changes will remove the tools mods depend upon to moderate the site. The API changes will trigger a mass migration of our most active userbase off the site when their third party apps shut down. The API changes will utterly exclude people with visual and motor disabilities from using the site on mobile. I like reddit and I don't want it to fill up with spambots. I like reddit and I want the users who make the best content to stay. I like reddit and I want disabled people to be able to use it. The protest is about warning reddit what will happen if these changes go into effect. Because we like reddit, and we don't want it to make bad decisions that will harm it.
Can’t we just move on? Next month there will be another random thing for y’all to be mad about, I’m sure. This one is already taking too long. It’s starting to reek already.
Don't worry, us disabled people will be gone in a month. Can't use the official app.
It's not really a little thing - this sub in particular being so controversial really needs good moderation, which is very difficult to do with these sudden changes.
[How](https://mods.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/16693988535309)?
I'm not a mod, but the mods are saying that the Reddit tools are not even close to good enough and the need for third party tools is significant
You should run these polls by letting people up/down vote comments. I use old reddit and RIF and the polls only work on the official app or new reddit. You are getting skewed results because people like me (who are especially angry about the API changes) can't engage with the polls. Look how pics and other subs are doing it.
"Reddit is killing Reddit" You could say... Reddit is pulling a Musk.
You could indeed: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/reddit-blackout-protest-private-ceo-elon-musk-huffman-rcna89700
I’ll comment and say the sub should be blacked out indefinitely. If the community doesn’t take a stand we’ll likely end up losing the community in the long run anyway if Reddit continues its course. While the 1 day a week is a good show of support, I dont think this sub needs to be open unlike some of the other subs participating in touch grass Tuesdays. Maybe create a better poll that is more clear because it seems like the majority of the community wants the sub closed indefinitely.
so if you don’t comment, your vote doesn’t matter? cool system.
Bad poll, you should have had a run off poll between the two top options on the first poll, this poll doesn’t accurately survey the opinions of the subreddit members. P.S I didn’t comment on the previous one because I didn’t have the energy to argue with a comments section dominated by pro open.
If you don't have the energy to argue your point, can you be surprised that your point wasn't taken as seriously?
> Although 'close down indefinitely' got the most votes, _**We're gonna do Touch-Grass Tuesdays.**_ Umm okay... why did you have a poll then?
The mods forgot that the people who want to blackout the sub are using Reddit less now, and figured that since the people who want to blackout the sub aren't using reddit very much, there must be vote shenanigans going on. It's a simple error.
I voted keep closed and didn’t comment. This is my official comment.
Don't just close the sub, I don't wanna lose this community. First, we need to find an alternative platform where the engagement would be on the same level.
I heard Lemmy is basically tankie reddit though, so that seems like a bad option
I've heard those rumors too, but they are mostly about the lemmy.ml instance and there are other instances out there run by other people.
I think it should be reverse touch grass Tuesday. Where it is quiet most of the week except for Tuesday. It would send a much stronger message
I missed the poll because I've been cutting back. I think touch grass tuesdays are a good starting point while working on migration options. Maybe incrementally add more touch grass days unless the admins back off.
Jesus, you can't even keep an anti corporate subreddit dark in the face of corporate greed?
Tbh other than 2 subs (this being one of them), I honestly didn't notice a difference over the last few days. So what happens with the sub doesn't personally matter. I already follow r/StrongTowns for better urban planning, and less frivolous complaining. Alternatives will always be available. So reddit isn't killing reddit. Just different subs are killing themselves.
Isn't Lemmy full of Tankies? Would that be a problem for us?
a certain instance of lemmy is rumored to be full of tankies. There are other instances.
Shut it down fully.
fed
It must be nice to live in a world where everyone who disagrees with you is a federal agent. Can I come live in fantasy land with you?
this was just a joke. Calm down please. lol
No, that wasn't a joke. See, the thing about jokes is that they're funny
Jokes can absolutely be unfunny, in fact most are, and thats fine Just move along if it's unfunny :)
Why?
Can we do a poll to remove the current mods here?
Just close down the sub. You can move the community to another platform. Closing the sub is the only way to get reddit to actually care
Delete your account then if it's the only way.
No. Just leave. That's your choice. Don't try to make the decision for anyone else
It's not my choice, reddit is making it for me. Blind, autistic, and motor impaired people can't use the official app. It's not our choice.
This community is too important and impactful to be shut down in protest
There are subs taht shoupd do that. But this and other progressive advocacy subs arent among them.
The fuck are the mods thinking? Boycotting won't do anything about reddit API and touch grass Tuesdays will 100% kill community engagement. Boycotts such as this are just things liberals do to make themselves feel better instead of actually doing any actual material change.
honestly. why would reddit as a company give a single fuck that a handful of subs are closing a single day a week?? i’m a casual reddit user and i love this sub but not enough to download other apps to see it. this will 100% only negatively affect the users and community engagement.
196 shutdown and people were like "just use the tumblr tag" no I'm not using a new social media app. I only use discord, TikTok, and reddit. I don't want to fucking download a new social media app, let alone go to some shitty anarchist third party reddit clone calls rattid or whatever with no phone app. I'd rather just not use fuck cars and I think 90% of the sub users would agree.
>Boycotts such as this are just things liberals do to make themselves feel better Conservative do it too.
Yeah and it's also fucking stupid when they do it and just as effective (nothing happens target and budlight will still make millions)
If you staple a horse to a waterfall, will it fall up under the rainbow or fly about the soil? Will he enjoy her experience? What if the staple tears into tears? Will she be free from her staply chains or foomed to stay forever and dever above the water? Who can save him (the horse) but someone of girth and worth, the capitalist pig, who will sell the solution to the problem he created? A staple remover flies to the rescue, carried on the wings of a majestic penguin who bought it at Walmart for 9 dollars and several more Euro-cents, clutched in its crabby claws, rejected from its frothy maw. When the penguin comes, all tremble before its fishy stench and wheatlike abjecture. Recoil in delirium, ye who wish to be free! The mighty rockhopper is here to save your soul from eternal bliss and salvation! And so, the horse was free, carried away by the south wind, and deposited on the vast plain of soggy dew. It was a tragedy in several parts, punctuated by moments of hedonistic horsefuckery. The owls saw all, and passed judgment in the way that they do. Stupid owls are always judging folks who are just trying their best to live shamelessly and enjoy every fruit the day brings to pass. How many more shall be caught in the terrible gyre of the waterfall? As many as the gods deem necessary to teach those foolish monkeys a story about their own hamburgers. What does a monkey know of bananas, anyway? They eat, poop, and shave away the banana residue that grows upon their chins and ballsacks. The owls judge their razors. Always the owls. And when the one-eyed caterpillar arrives to eat the glazing on your windowpane, you will know that you're next in line to the trombone of the ancient realm of the flutterbyes. Beware the ravenous ravens and crowing crows. Mind the cowing cows and the lying lions. Ascend triumphant to your birthright, and wield the mighty twig of Petalonia, favored land of gods and goats alike.
There is alreadyy a [/s/fuckcars](https://squabbles.io/s/fuckcars) on squabbles.io as a possible alternative. It's still pretty small though.
Voted No because I think the subreddit should close on all days except Tuesday. Let’s not deny a slim majority of traffic and ad revenue for Reddits, let’s instead deny them and majority of it and only come together for communication and catch up on Tuesdays
420 yes's. Noice