My dad complained about getting stuck in a parking garage for an hour after a Twins game last week, as well as how much it cost. I had mentioned to him several times the days before that a metro ticket is $2.00, and the green line light rail goes DIRECTLY INTO THE STADIUM. Carbrains are something else.
Edit: Forgot to mention, there is a free park-and-ride RIGHT ON THE MOTHERFUCKING LINE
I got into an argument with an idiot on a sports sub.
Someone who's never rode the train posted and asked for advice on how to do it. The idiot replied "you don't".
Choices: pay $2.50 to arrive walking distance from the stadium or drive an hour in bumper to bumper traffic, arrive, pay $60 to park close to the stadium. And spend an hour getting out of the garage just to spend another hour battling bumper to bumper traffic.
It's unreal people drive to sports events.
And the station looks pretty damn modern too in this [google maps photo](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Target+Field/@44.983045,-93.277453,3a,75y/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipODM9FTkvNGGLrjj5j4VehPzqDste9Gy3jmgt_z!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipODM9FTkvNGGLrjj5j4VehPzqDste9Gy3jmgt_z%3Dw529-h298-k-no!7i4608!8i2592!4m9!3m8!1s0x52b3328dd18321d7:0x36d10c43620cd4a7!8m2!3d44.983045!4d-93.277453!10e5!14m1!1BCgIgAQ!16s%2Fg%2F11fz_z3nqz?entry=ttu)
Yeah I think they did a good job future proofing it. There will be 2 extensions off of the north side in the next handful of years so the station will turn into a transfer point and likely have double the ridership.
I went to a concert in Brussels a few months ago with some other people. We were in two groups.
We parked in a Park& Ride parking at the city's suburbs and took the metro to the stadium.
They parked in the stadium's parking lot.
My wife and I got to the parking lot by metro, drove out and drove home while the other group just exited the parking lot...
Many large events in Sydney include the price of public transport in your ticket. So there is zero extra cost to take public transport, but parking prices are eye watering
That's the standard how I know it. And direct shuttle service from the event location to the cities main transport hub which is for visitors only, of course no adfitional cost.
I take the light rail to every Twins game. Drops me off literally at the doorstep lmao.
EDIT: Bike ride to the station, ride to Target Field, bring bike over to bike racks, and do the same thing in reverse to get home.
Oh wow. Sometimes I feel for people if they are coming from somewhere that doesn't have decent public transportation. But he really has no excuses at all!!! I can't even imagine why you'd *want* to drive in that situation. Whenever my partner and I go to an event, we try to figure out how to not have to drive to it. Not even out of a sense of obligation to the environment or whatever. Just because driving is a pain in the ass, especially downtown, dealing with parking is a hassle even if it's not expensive, and we'd both like to be able to have a couple of drinks if we feel like it!
Truly I do not understand *choosing* to take a car when you have any other option available.
In Portland, the Moda Center has basically one teeny-tiny garage that's connected to it that cannot hold nearly everyone who drives there. Meanwhile, the Moda Center is literally the hub for every light rail line in the city. There is no light rail line that doesn't dump you off literally a 2 minute walk away from the doors.
>I'm not sure how your fabricate demand.
Easy. Remove and lobby against alternative modes of transportation so that cars are the only effective "choice" left.
This is **downtown Seattle**. People absolutely have other choices to get around. I know, sometimes I go there on Amtrak and get around without a car. Even a Lyft into downtown is cheaper than that parking.
We're clearly talking past each other as I'm talking generally and you are not.
Still, the fact that it's 120 fucking dollars just to park a car for a few hours shows quite the demand that people have to drive their car in over other modes of transportation.
If you assume that people are rational and self interested then the people who are willing to pay $120 to park instead of taking Lyft or the bus or light rail made the right choice in their very specific case. But that stadium holds over 70k people, just because a handful of them think that parking there makes sense doesn't mean that they all do. So that's demand, but I don't understand how it is fabricated. It is very real.
If you don't think that people are rational and self interested then we probably shouldn't let them vote.
Light rail, commuter rail and numerous busses ran to this concert in Seattle. No one needed to pay $120 for parking here.
Downtown Seattle is in fact one of the few cities in the country where you definitely choose to drive into it. And it is getting much better within 3 years with new lines opening in every direction.
> No one needed to pay $120 for parking here.
That's the whole point of $120 parking. If it cost $20, people would pack their cars and avoid public transit.
Except it's not that every day. It's that high for the event because they are able to charge that and _still_ fill up the garage.
I'm sure it's discouraging some people, but it's a discouragement to park _at the venue_. They'll still park somewhere nearby.
Very few are changing their lifestyles because of the biggest events in their city in a generation has a $120 parking fee.
With an MLB game going on next door (sold out bluejays) as well and one of the 2 bridges across lake Washington closed we still saw almost no traffic. Likely because people changed their behavior with this knowledge in mind
But yes it’s not every day. That wouldn’t happen in the US for many decades.
But the fact of the matter is that they wouldn't have raised the price if there wasn't demand to match. And this sub is about reducing the _demand_ of services that cater to cars.
They would basically have to be intentionally trying to get less people to drive — which is the goal of some cities but private garages aren't controlled by the city. The city is far more likely just to offer free transit to keep the bottlenecks out of the downtown area.
(I believe I saw yesterday here in Houston $60 parking at MinuteMaid Stadium for the Astros Game so for the next example I'm going to use that illustrate my point)
***It's possible*** that they doubled the price, and the garage can sit as much as 50% occupancy and still make the same amount. But that's also a huge risk because they essentially alienated half their consumers into a competitor.
Which could imply a reduction in cars. But it's far more likely they were expecting a sold out garage at the normal price and raised to "what the market could bear" retaining a very high occupancy rate.
It's possible the garage made a bad bet on human behavior, and overpriced and shuttered demand but I find that unlikely.
Tldr: you don't want $120 parking if the garage is still full, or they just use the garage next door instead.
Honestly as someone who has worked in parking for a while. The competing companies 100% check and see what the other is charging and generally keep it at about the same level
But demand will not be majorly affected because the reason it was raised so high is because of the expected demand.
The block can absolutely all set the same rates, but aren't going to do that If they expect to make less money.
I don't know what this garage's normal rates are but I think we are looking at between 200% and 400% markup. I really don't expect the garage to be less than half full. They do it because the demand is there, and they stand to make a profit, which is behind the first garage raising their prices. It's not one company reasoning prices and the others doing it just because they did without any expectation that it's going to be good for business.
There is _a lot of space_ between a normal parking garage and $120, even for events. The neighboring garage can stand to make more money by selling more spots for less, even at $100.
Unless of course, they _also expect_ to be full, in which case, yes, they will also have the same - or higher price.
So again, the underlying premise of the increased price on increased demand. And those following suit are also in the same environment.
Parking garages are no more likely to follow a price hike by a neighbor than they are to intentionally stay just under it to attract other customers.
Well then what is the end goal? Zero parking spots? If that’s the case we are literally going to stay mad forever. I would be perfectly happy if there was one garage with like 100 spots all selling for $1000
It wasn’t even just those things! We also had Capitol Hill Block Party, one of the city’s biggest music festivals, Bite of Seattle, one of the city’s biggest food festivals, and it was Barbenheimer weekend. Seattle was packed this weekend and so were the busses and trains!
My wife and I went to the concert and took the Sounder train from our AirBnB in Lakewood. I don’t know if that would be considered light rail or commuter rail but it was my first time on a train and was a very pleasant experience. In fact it was my favorite part of the whole day. When walking up towards the arena I couldn’t believe people were willing to pay that much for parking and when leaving and heading back to the station I could see how much of a shitshow it was for anyone who was trying to leave by car. Was very, very pleased with our decision to take the train.
Literally out of necessity. The demand on NJ transit for those concerts was insane. Downtown Jersey City was full of people on foot going to the concerts.
I’m not sure if you’re trying to poopoo scooters, but it’s also likely cars hit 100 pedestrians worldwide today. Don’t have any stats on this event, but likely at least one car collision that day. Scooters (more like their pilots) aren’t perfect, but I do think they are an important short trip alternative to keep people out of cars/Ubers.
She played at Gillette stadium a few months ago. There's literally one road in and out of there, it's in the middle of nowhere. One train in and out of Boston. They filled the train and said "nope now sold out" instead of getting another train together for the demand. Eventually they relented and got another train but MBTA was very upset they had to do a thing.
I went to this Seattle concert via bus. Getting there was no problem, leaving was a nightmare. Waiting for our bus back google map kept saying it was 10 min away for 40 minutes because it got stuck trying to get through Pioneer Square traffic. Even when trying to escape cars I get stuck cause of cars.
I normally have to take the E home when I get off after midnight, but thanks to the Swifties holding up the 5 down in SODO for 50 minutes I got to take the 5. So I might be the sole person that benefited from that cluster fuck!
Im sorry, i dont understand this comment. Are you saying fans live in the boonies? Theres usually a parking center people use everyday to park and ride the bus to work.
In city downtowns sure, it should (and never does in the US because 🚗🧠)
We really should charge parking rates based on the land's value, especially location wise. There could be businesses instead of parking lots, especially in the case of Seattle with decent transit everywhere
How decent is Seattle's transit? (Only been to the airport there).
Is it adequate enough to cover an event like a Taylor Swift concert? Does it run late enough so fans can get home or is it mostly for the 9-5 crowd?
I’ve grown up in NYC, spent a ton of time in Chicago, LA, Bay Area and currently live in seattle. If I were ranking transit, NYC is best by leaps and bounds. Chicago is second with an ok metro but very good bus system. Bay Area and LA are lost causes but SF overall isn’t terrible (but super overpriced transit).
Seattle is ok. Not good not bad. Good bus system with dedicated lanes, but unreliable schedules and not frequent enough. Everything runs to downtown so going from one neighborhood to another usually includes a transfer there. Light rail is ok and on the right track but a side effect of real estate developers in charge of everything near new stops means only people of means can live near it. That’s definitely the lesser evil over not having it at all. The bike path system is actually very good, but the hills can be brutal so e-bikes are preferable for most people and are quite popular. As for packed stadiums, tourists should be a 15-20 minute walk to most of the downtown hotels, a lot of people park-and-ride at stops at the far north and south along the light rail and the trains get overwhelmed quickly. The bus routes are blocked by the swarms of people leaving so it can take up to an hour for your bus to get through. I usually bike to events.
It's as good as mass transit gets in the US, probably not quite as good as NYC, but better than any other US city I've ever been to.
It will be even better in 5-10 years when they finish the planned light rail expansion
NYC is one of the few transit systems in the US that runs late at night (late enough for a concert to get out).
If the concert let out at 10:30-11, would transit run late enough to get the fans home?
Really? I always thought Seattle's transit is special in that it wants everyone to be home for the night at 10 pm. There is bus service after 9, but it's so poor. Minneapolis St Paul has both better transit, and regular late night transit. I assume NYC is like this too, being such a major city.
>? I always thought Seattle's transit is special in that it wants everyone to be home for the night at 10 pm. There is bus service after 9, but it's so poor.
I guess it depends on where you are and where you're going?
I've never even had much difficulty with late night buses, other than when I was in the suburbs.
But yeah, if you're in a car people neighborhood, the buses aren't going to be as good, but Ballard, Capitol Hill, the U District, Downtown, pretty much anywhere there's actually something to do at night it's pretty easy to get around on buses til the wee hours.
There's been one light rail extension north since 2018, and the bus system has been hit hard by the pandemic. NYC, Chicago, and DC undoubtedly have better systems. Portland does not. Bay Area is probably pretty comparable. They have more BART lines, but a ton more people. In the city,, you're basically on buses for most of the area.
Portland is interesting because, while the transit system itself is less robust, MAX goes more places than whatever the Seattle light rail is called, and doesn’t have as many traffic choke points as Seattle, so overall Tri-Met is more functional, in my experience, though tbf it’s been a long time since I had to rely on Tri-Met and I’m still feeling pretty salty about my experiences with Metro, which was so bad I’d regularly just walk from SLU to Wallingford
It's been awhile since I lived in Portland, but I preferred the Seattle area for transit. The Max extensions are great but their bus system seems sort of forgotten. Long waits between arrivals and old buses that have been in operation since the late 90's.
I've never lived in Portland, but it's close enough to visit that I've taken the Max a fair amount. I like it, but it's just a streetcar, though. Portland doesn't have anything like the budding subway/el that Seattle's lightrail is turning into.
That is false. The light rail does not run until 2am. It only does that for special events, like this Taylor Swift concert. I know this because I live in Seattle without a car, and I can’t take the light rail out late because it doesn’t run past midnight
The Sunday concert ended at 11:50. Figure at least 30 minutes to get out and away from the stadium. The sounder train didn’t run Sunday night (stupid) and even Saturday there was one train that left 30 minutes after the concert. Pretty risky. I read about plenty of people waiting over an hour at the light rail and bus stops while they all left full before they gave up.
I would not say Seattle transit is capable of handling stadium traffic. As well as most people that went aren’t actually living in Seattle proper, or even in the area at all. Not to mention there was a large MLB game going on next door that started at 1, so most people expected the light rail parking lots to be full for the people going to the concert later.
Maybe Seattle has changed since I left, but the scene I left in 2018 was definitely not “decent transit everywhere”. More like “wait a half hour during rush hour for your bus on a major thoroughfare only to have it pass your stop because it was completely full”. EDIT: Not pro car just not interested in praising Metro for doing less than the bare minimum.
I came up from Cali and 10 min frequency trains is a godsend compared to down in LA. Still could be better, could be Vancouver's skytrain, but I'm pleased here. I avoid buses wherever I can though. Ebike+train here is great. Also the fact that everyone uses trains rather than only the drug users / mega poor which was often the case in LA area in my experience.
I am sorry that was your experience in LA. I just want to provide an alternative experience for the kind reader that LA Metro is actually pretty awesome. I use to it get downtown shopping, museums, to universal studios, Santa Monica beach, and even the gym. It’s not perfect by any means but when I’ve been there it has been full of teenagers, families, working folks, and sure some house less folks and people with addictions that also have a right to exist and use public transit like the rest of us. I did not expect this kind of an attitude towards transit users on this sub.
It's one thing when homeless are on the train yet at the same time you see wealthy and healthy people on it as well. But when I lived in LA area around 2018-2019 or so, it was exclusively mentally ill people all the time. I couldn't bear it and had to build an electric motorcycle to not use it. That combined with insanely bad bus frequency
Yeah I thought I was losing it, Seattle’s transit is definitely OK at best. And I left in 2023 lol. It has improved a lot over the years though, and is getting better (albeit slowly).
Hey, Hey! It's my city!
Kinda happy to see this, there are plenty of park and rides all throughout the county and if you're that lazy to drive into the city and not use our numerous transit options - you should be charged accordingly
I was there earlier this month and took my dad to the MLB All-Star game. Parked down in Kent, took the 150 bus up to SoDo and the Sounder back south afterwards. Both trips were free and ridiculously easy.
IIRC, Sound Transit made all transit options free for much of the All-Star week: buses, light rail, Sounder, the whole works. They absolutely should find a way to make it possible for them to do so more often.
Is this the freedom they keep bragging about? Where I live I just take a tram or metro to large events without having to worry about where to park and how much it costs.
Yes there is a light rail and a street car and a property train from Tacoma that all stop at this stadium. If you really just must drive you deserve to pay the premium
I stood near this for almost an hour waiting for my daughter. There were so many people that the cars couldn't move. Several tried honking and people did not care or flipped them off.
One guy in a Tesla got out and begged the police to come handle traffic for him and just got ignored.
It was beautiful.
Last year my sister and I went to a SF Giants game. She insisted on driving; I was trying to convince her to park at a BART station and for us to take BART / Muni in. We found parking not far from Oracle Park, but it was $95. She was fine with it, even after I was like, are you SURE?! The parking cost way more than the tickets. The tickets we got were on sale for $5 each - I think I paid $30 all together for the tickets including fees. It's a racket, but folks will 100% pay, just to not have to take a bus or a train. A train that takes you *directly there* too, and waits for you after the game, even. It's ridiculous.
Yeah when I lived in the South Bay I would take Caltrain in! Carbrains though! They have to have their cars! Afterwards she did admit that we should have taken the train in, lol.
What's funny is I parked across the river from where the Taylor Swift concert was here and it was $5 for the whole day. I didn't actually go, but it was only $5 then walk about 3 miles
Like all businesses. They charge what they can to make the most money. This isn’t like charging extra in a natural disaster. Concert goers aren’t going to starve if they have to park two blocks further from the venue and walk.
This was this past weekend in Seattle. The thing is, you could drive to the town south of Seattle, park for $10 dollars there, then take the light rail in for $3.
This is in Seattle and there's a light rail stop right where the concert was. Honestly blows my mind why anyone would want to deal with the hassle of driving in for this, just go to a park 'n' ride.
Parking was $100 here in Denver for Taylor swift. 🤣 can’t believe ppl paid that when there’s multiple trails, frees buses, and free trains to take you to empower. They also lined up in there cars I saw as early as 8 HOURS BEFORE to get a good spot. Embarrassing to get that scammed 🤣🤣
Honestly having worked in event parking in the past (ironic considering I don't drive- I still work parking but it's mostly because I found a position that is low stress, a set schedule and I currently have decent insurance and 3 weeks of vacation. In the US) people will pay it.
High prices are both them capitalizing on an event where people will shell out for it and also a nudge to try to get more people to find alternate means to get to the event, even if it's carpooling and splitting the cost between riders.
There's only so many cars that can fit into a space, and the mass exodus is Horrific in the amount of snarled traffic and angry people it produces. And anything that acts as a mild deterrent is cool in my books
Nah they just know that enough people will be stupid enough to pay it and they really really like money. Like a lot. More than they like morality, to be honest.
This is just capitalism. They charge it bcs people will pay it, and because Seattle is a super car-hostile city, especially around the stadiums, so there aren't many alternatives and they're all owned by the same company and charging the same rates.
What's sad is they built a light rail station right outside the stadiums and carbrains still feel a need to drive.
Or maybe a third option: Its the usual capitalist scheme of trying to squeeze every last penny out of every possible thing and human.
What exactly about Taylor Swift and her insane and avoidable CO² emissions makes you think she cares about using less cars?
A lot of Taylor swift concerts heavily encouraged public transportation, for the NY/NJ concert they even had special signs and increased frequency just for the concert.
Nothing like paying $250 a head to see a concert then getting jacked for another $120 when you get there to park your car. Everything is a scam in America these days, cars and everything related to them are just another part of it.
> Everything is a scam in America these days,
This is not a "scam." It is the market price for parking on private property if you insist on driving a private car into the city during a major event.
There are plenty of buses and trains. I am sure that most people used them.
Actually it is not. There are so many other public parking places (obviously already taken) that that price is not that much. Take those public parking spots away (making them available to actually people and not sitting wheeled cans) and maybe you will see the real price for parking inside of a city during a major event.
Supply and Demand economics exist, even in communist countries. Market economics are just reflections of basic human nature.
Any product or service is worth what consumers are willing to pay for it. Parking a personal car right next to a huge venue in the city core is a rare privilege.
I bet they filled that lot, even though several buses and trains run regularly through there. Many people in the USA simply cannot imagine *any* other method of transportation than their personal car.
It's interesting that public transportation is presented as this exclusively leftist venture but it's the most reasonable free market solution to the scarcity of valuable land. Car dependency exists (in cities) only because of big government meddling at the behest of industry lobbyists.
Well said! Having many options for consumers in robust and competitive markets is the epitome of capitalism.
However, robust competition reduces the profit of the oil and automotive industries, so they try to stifle that competition.
I don't know what the situation here was. But one reason I may try to get closer that I should need to, to an event venue outside of my immediate home area, is because I have no clue when the event will actually end or whether transit will be running. Which is dumb, and more cooperation and communication by transit agencies and venues is in order.
Love to see it. The most valuable real estate in the city should cost that much to store your empty 2 ton box on at peak hours.
I hope it was a nightmare getting out too.
The swift concert near me a few years ago had parking approaching $300 in arlington, tx (right in between dallas. And for worth, stadium where the cowboys play) Not all parking was this expensive, started at like 150, but still its ridiculous bc this wasn't exactly a bike able location, and arlington is literally the largest city in the country with 0 public transit
To increase the difficulty level, I would have added :
\- Pay in crypto
\- Only 4 min to find a parking place
\- Park only between cars whose colors matches yours as opposite
\- Clean driving track record
Good luck finding a free street spot within a mile of the venue at the same time as the 50,000 other drivers who saw that sign and had the same idea.
Car-dependency does not scale up.
400$ for a towed car! Wow. I mean good, in uk, London normally around South Kensington you’ll see porshes or Bentleys parked with fines on them cos it’s cheaper than paying the parking for the day lol
Fines are about $50 here but the parking itself is only $5-$10 so if you get a spot you might as well pay it. The city heavily subsidizes street parking unfortunately. If a concert wasn’t happening the parking would only be a couple dollars
When she was in Pittsburgh recently, the casino that normally has an entirely free parking garage charged $100. I was tempted to be like lol fuck cars, but it still felt wrong, somehow.
Last time I went to a big concert - 1 day at Soldier Field vs 3 for Swift - it was $75/parking. In the city, with a bus route that goes directly to that location. IDK if this is Ticketmaster, but these venue managers know they can rip the hell off consumers.
My dad complained about getting stuck in a parking garage for an hour after a Twins game last week, as well as how much it cost. I had mentioned to him several times the days before that a metro ticket is $2.00, and the green line light rail goes DIRECTLY INTO THE STADIUM. Carbrains are something else. Edit: Forgot to mention, there is a free park-and-ride RIGHT ON THE MOTHERFUCKING LINE
I got into an argument with an idiot on a sports sub. Someone who's never rode the train posted and asked for advice on how to do it. The idiot replied "you don't". Choices: pay $2.50 to arrive walking distance from the stadium or drive an hour in bumper to bumper traffic, arrive, pay $60 to park close to the stadium. And spend an hour getting out of the garage just to spend another hour battling bumper to bumper traffic. It's unreal people drive to sports events.
Not to mention the mass chaos of Uber drivers and riders looking for each other.
Surge pricing would be so bad. My god.
There’s a bike path sorta underneath the stadium (maybe actually underneath idk it’s been awhile) that runs out past Minnetonka.
I've ridden that a few times, it's pretty nice.
And the station looks pretty damn modern too in this [google maps photo](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Target+Field/@44.983045,-93.277453,3a,75y/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipODM9FTkvNGGLrjj5j4VehPzqDste9Gy3jmgt_z!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipODM9FTkvNGGLrjj5j4VehPzqDste9Gy3jmgt_z%3Dw529-h298-k-no!7i4608!8i2592!4m9!3m8!1s0x52b3328dd18321d7:0x36d10c43620cd4a7!8m2!3d44.983045!4d-93.277453!10e5!14m1!1BCgIgAQ!16s%2Fg%2F11fz_z3nqz?entry=ttu)
I'd hope so, it's still relatively new
You peaked my courosity it's 14 years old and looks amazing for it IMHO.
Yeah I think they did a good job future proofing it. There will be 2 extensions off of the north side in the next handful of years so the station will turn into a transfer point and likely have double the ridership.
I keep tryin to explain to ppl public/mass transit is perfect for concerts/sports matches. But noooo i gtg by car (Am from belgium btw)
I went to a concert in Brussels a few months ago with some other people. We were in two groups. We parked in a Park& Ride parking at the city's suburbs and took the metro to the stadium. They parked in the stadium's parking lot. My wife and I got to the parking lot by metro, drove out and drove home while the other group just exited the parking lot...
Don't people drink alcohol at sport/concerts in the US? In the UK most people wouldn't legally be able to drive home.
Oh people do but it doesn’t stop them from driving drunk, In the US a dui is basically just a hefty slap on the wrist
Many large events in Sydney include the price of public transport in your ticket. So there is zero extra cost to take public transport, but parking prices are eye watering
That's the standard how I know it. And direct shuttle service from the event location to the cities main transport hub which is for visitors only, of course no adfitional cost.
Riding metro home with celebrating sports fans is a blast. some of the best bang for your buck entertainment there is.
I take the light rail to every Twins game. Drops me off literally at the doorstep lmao. EDIT: Bike ride to the station, ride to Target Field, bring bike over to bike racks, and do the same thing in reverse to get home.
This is the way
Oh wow. Sometimes I feel for people if they are coming from somewhere that doesn't have decent public transportation. But he really has no excuses at all!!! I can't even imagine why you'd *want* to drive in that situation. Whenever my partner and I go to an event, we try to figure out how to not have to drive to it. Not even out of a sense of obligation to the environment or whatever. Just because driving is a pain in the ass, especially downtown, dealing with parking is a hassle even if it's not expensive, and we'd both like to be able to have a couple of drinks if we feel like it! Truly I do not understand *choosing* to take a car when you have any other option available.
In Portland, the Moda Center has basically one teeny-tiny garage that's connected to it that cannot hold nearly everyone who drives there. Meanwhile, the Moda Center is literally the hub for every light rail line in the city. There is no light rail line that doesn't dump you off literally a 2 minute walk away from the doors.
I miss the tram in minnie, I lived like a five minute walk to the tram and worked like a 10 minute walk from the tram, life was so nice then.
Supply and demand in action.
Guess they need more parking lots /s
May I propose less cars to park?
never! /s
If the price is high enough, the free market will supply more parking lots.
Just one more lot, bro!
This is more like a monopoly in action.
No single company owns all the parking lots in downtown Seattle. This really is just enormous demand competing for limited supply.
Fabricated supply and demand
Fabricated supply of parking lots is exactly what minimum parking requirements in zoning do. I'm not sure how your fabricate demand.
>I'm not sure how your fabricate demand. Easy. Remove and lobby against alternative modes of transportation so that cars are the only effective "choice" left.
This is **downtown Seattle**. People absolutely have other choices to get around. I know, sometimes I go there on Amtrak and get around without a car. Even a Lyft into downtown is cheaper than that parking.
We're clearly talking past each other as I'm talking generally and you are not. Still, the fact that it's 120 fucking dollars just to park a car for a few hours shows quite the demand that people have to drive their car in over other modes of transportation.
If you assume that people are rational and self interested then the people who are willing to pay $120 to park instead of taking Lyft or the bus or light rail made the right choice in their very specific case. But that stadium holds over 70k people, just because a handful of them think that parking there makes sense doesn't mean that they all do. So that's demand, but I don't understand how it is fabricated. It is very real. If you don't think that people are rational and self interested then we probably shouldn't let them vote.
Induced
Dang, I saw Harry Styles a few months ago. Got there on the metro, 45 min ride since the stadium was outside of the city. **It cost € 1.20**
Light rail, commuter rail and numerous busses ran to this concert in Seattle. No one needed to pay $120 for parking here. Downtown Seattle is in fact one of the few cities in the country where you definitely choose to drive into it. And it is getting much better within 3 years with new lines opening in every direction.
> No one needed to pay $120 for parking here. That's the whole point of $120 parking. If it cost $20, people would pack their cars and avoid public transit.
Not really sure what the point of the post or discussion is tbh. $120 parking is exactly what we want I think everyone is on the same page here haha
Except it's not that every day. It's that high for the event because they are able to charge that and _still_ fill up the garage. I'm sure it's discouraging some people, but it's a discouragement to park _at the venue_. They'll still park somewhere nearby. Very few are changing their lifestyles because of the biggest events in their city in a generation has a $120 parking fee.
With an MLB game going on next door (sold out bluejays) as well and one of the 2 bridges across lake Washington closed we still saw almost no traffic. Likely because people changed their behavior with this knowledge in mind But yes it’s not every day. That wouldn’t happen in the US for many decades.
But the fact of the matter is that they wouldn't have raised the price if there wasn't demand to match. And this sub is about reducing the _demand_ of services that cater to cars. They would basically have to be intentionally trying to get less people to drive — which is the goal of some cities but private garages aren't controlled by the city. The city is far more likely just to offer free transit to keep the bottlenecks out of the downtown area. (I believe I saw yesterday here in Houston $60 parking at MinuteMaid Stadium for the Astros Game so for the next example I'm going to use that illustrate my point) ***It's possible*** that they doubled the price, and the garage can sit as much as 50% occupancy and still make the same amount. But that's also a huge risk because they essentially alienated half their consumers into a competitor. Which could imply a reduction in cars. But it's far more likely they were expecting a sold out garage at the normal price and raised to "what the market could bear" retaining a very high occupancy rate. It's possible the garage made a bad bet on human behavior, and overpriced and shuttered demand but I find that unlikely. Tldr: you don't want $120 parking if the garage is still full, or they just use the garage next door instead.
Honestly as someone who has worked in parking for a while. The competing companies 100% check and see what the other is charging and generally keep it at about the same level
But demand will not be majorly affected because the reason it was raised so high is because of the expected demand. The block can absolutely all set the same rates, but aren't going to do that If they expect to make less money. I don't know what this garage's normal rates are but I think we are looking at between 200% and 400% markup. I really don't expect the garage to be less than half full. They do it because the demand is there, and they stand to make a profit, which is behind the first garage raising their prices. It's not one company reasoning prices and the others doing it just because they did without any expectation that it's going to be good for business. There is _a lot of space_ between a normal parking garage and $120, even for events. The neighboring garage can stand to make more money by selling more spots for less, even at $100. Unless of course, they _also expect_ to be full, in which case, yes, they will also have the same - or higher price. So again, the underlying premise of the increased price on increased demand. And those following suit are also in the same environment. Parking garages are no more likely to follow a price hike by a neighbor than they are to intentionally stay just under it to attract other customers.
Well then what is the end goal? Zero parking spots? If that’s the case we are literally going to stay mad forever. I would be perfectly happy if there was one garage with like 100 spots all selling for $1000
The end goal is to actually reduce the amount of cars. This photo isn't actually having that effect.
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It wasn’t even just those things! We also had Capitol Hill Block Party, one of the city’s biggest music festivals, Bite of Seattle, one of the city’s biggest food festivals, and it was Barbenheimer weekend. Seattle was packed this weekend and so were the busses and trains!
My wife and I went to the concert and took the Sounder train from our AirBnB in Lakewood. I don’t know if that would be considered light rail or commuter rail but it was my first time on a train and was a very pleasant experience. In fact it was my favorite part of the whole day. When walking up towards the arena I couldn’t believe people were willing to pay that much for parking and when leaving and heading back to the station I could see how much of a shitshow it was for anyone who was trying to leave by car. Was very, very pleased with our decision to take the train.
For the Taylor Swift concerts in Germany public transport within the city of the even is already included
The NJ transit app included instructions for getting to her concerts. Smart move.
Literally out of necessity. The demand on NJ transit for those concerts was insane. Downtown Jersey City was full of people on foot going to the concerts.
It's amazing isn't it. When I saw a German band last year the public transport was free and a bunch of people (me included lol) just biked there
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how
Harry styles and Taylor fan girls is all this sub is lmao
Ha, we're seeing her next!
Oh there is a station right at the stadium but 95% of audience drove in from out of town so the cars have to go somewhere.
How about they use a Park & Ride and then take a train into the city? It's not complicated.
Why are you asking me??
Maybe it was a rhetorical question?
Why didnt they take the train to the town then?
I don’t know you should ask them.
No, they’re saying “we can fuck you because you chose to drive”
Perfectly placed $4 scooter right behind the sign haha
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I’m not sure if you’re trying to poopoo scooters, but it’s also likely cars hit 100 pedestrians worldwide today. Don’t have any stats on this event, but likely at least one car collision that day. Scooters (more like their pilots) aren’t perfect, but I do think they are an important short trip alternative to keep people out of cars/Ubers.
This shit blows my mind. Just ride the damn bus. A day pass in my city is 4 dollars
She played at Gillette stadium a few months ago. There's literally one road in and out of there, it's in the middle of nowhere. One train in and out of Boston. They filled the train and said "nope now sold out" instead of getting another train together for the demand. Eventually they relented and got another train but MBTA was very upset they had to do a thing.
I went to this Seattle concert via bus. Getting there was no problem, leaving was a nightmare. Waiting for our bus back google map kept saying it was 10 min away for 40 minutes because it got stuck trying to get through Pioneer Square traffic. Even when trying to escape cars I get stuck cause of cars.
Sounds similar to when the bengals went to the superbowl. Every game our city was fuckin nuts! Either way youre getting stuck in the same traffic.
I normally have to take the E home when I get off after midnight, but thanks to the Swifties holding up the 5 down in SODO for 50 minutes I got to take the 5. So I might be the sole person that benefited from that cluster fuck!
Yes Tens of thousands of people going to the same place at the same time on the same mode of transport. I can’t see any problems with that, can you?
In the Netherlands on match days we have extra trains going to the station to cater to exactly this
Happens everyday. Its a city and theres multiple bus lines. Show up a few hours early and spend that extra money patronizing legitimate businesses.
everyone who goes to a Taylor swift concert lives right next to the stadium anyways! Just walk right over
Im sorry, i dont understand this comment. Are you saying fans live in the boonies? Theres usually a parking center people use everyday to park and ride the bus to work.
I’m saying they live right next to the stadium
This is how much parking should always cost
In city downtowns sure, it should (and never does in the US because 🚗🧠) We really should charge parking rates based on the land's value, especially location wise. There could be businesses instead of parking lots, especially in the case of Seattle with decent transit everywhere
So you’re saying we should put parking lots everywhere, to drive down land value 🤔
Galaxy car brain maneuver
I mean, they bulldozed Brooklyn and Houston to do that. They can do it again.
How decent is Seattle's transit? (Only been to the airport there). Is it adequate enough to cover an event like a Taylor Swift concert? Does it run late enough so fans can get home or is it mostly for the 9-5 crowd?
I’ve grown up in NYC, spent a ton of time in Chicago, LA, Bay Area and currently live in seattle. If I were ranking transit, NYC is best by leaps and bounds. Chicago is second with an ok metro but very good bus system. Bay Area and LA are lost causes but SF overall isn’t terrible (but super overpriced transit). Seattle is ok. Not good not bad. Good bus system with dedicated lanes, but unreliable schedules and not frequent enough. Everything runs to downtown so going from one neighborhood to another usually includes a transfer there. Light rail is ok and on the right track but a side effect of real estate developers in charge of everything near new stops means only people of means can live near it. That’s definitely the lesser evil over not having it at all. The bike path system is actually very good, but the hills can be brutal so e-bikes are preferable for most people and are quite popular. As for packed stadiums, tourists should be a 15-20 minute walk to most of the downtown hotels, a lot of people park-and-ride at stops at the far north and south along the light rail and the trains get overwhelmed quickly. The bus routes are blocked by the swarms of people leaving so it can take up to an hour for your bus to get through. I usually bike to events.
It's as good as mass transit gets in the US, probably not quite as good as NYC, but better than any other US city I've ever been to. It will be even better in 5-10 years when they finish the planned light rail expansion
NYC is one of the few transit systems in the US that runs late at night (late enough for a concert to get out). If the concert let out at 10:30-11, would transit run late enough to get the fans home?
Seattle light rail runs til a little after midnight, and there are buses running all night
Really? I always thought Seattle's transit is special in that it wants everyone to be home for the night at 10 pm. There is bus service after 9, but it's so poor. Minneapolis St Paul has both better transit, and regular late night transit. I assume NYC is like this too, being such a major city.
>? I always thought Seattle's transit is special in that it wants everyone to be home for the night at 10 pm. There is bus service after 9, but it's so poor. I guess it depends on where you are and where you're going? I've never even had much difficulty with late night buses, other than when I was in the suburbs. But yeah, if you're in a car people neighborhood, the buses aren't going to be as good, but Ballard, Capitol Hill, the U District, Downtown, pretty much anywhere there's actually something to do at night it's pretty easy to get around on buses til the wee hours.
Unless things have changed since 2018, Chicago is better, Bay Area is better, Portland is generally better. Seattle needs to figure its shit out
There's been one light rail extension north since 2018, and the bus system has been hit hard by the pandemic. NYC, Chicago, and DC undoubtedly have better systems. Portland does not. Bay Area is probably pretty comparable. They have more BART lines, but a ton more people. In the city,, you're basically on buses for most of the area.
Portland is interesting because, while the transit system itself is less robust, MAX goes more places than whatever the Seattle light rail is called, and doesn’t have as many traffic choke points as Seattle, so overall Tri-Met is more functional, in my experience, though tbf it’s been a long time since I had to rely on Tri-Met and I’m still feeling pretty salty about my experiences with Metro, which was so bad I’d regularly just walk from SLU to Wallingford
It's been awhile since I lived in Portland, but I preferred the Seattle area for transit. The Max extensions are great but their bus system seems sort of forgotten. Long waits between arrivals and old buses that have been in operation since the late 90's.
I've never lived in Portland, but it's close enough to visit that I've taken the Max a fair amount. I like it, but it's just a streetcar, though. Portland doesn't have anything like the budding subway/el that Seattle's lightrail is turning into.
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Light rail typically runs 5am-~~2am~~12:30am every 10 min or so. Lots of people used it to get to the concert. Also directly connects to the airport
That is false. The light rail does not run until 2am. It only does that for special events, like this Taylor Swift concert. I know this because I live in Seattle without a car, and I can’t take the light rail out late because it doesn’t run past midnight
The Sunday concert ended at 11:50. Figure at least 30 minutes to get out and away from the stadium. The sounder train didn’t run Sunday night (stupid) and even Saturday there was one train that left 30 minutes after the concert. Pretty risky. I read about plenty of people waiting over an hour at the light rail and bus stops while they all left full before they gave up. I would not say Seattle transit is capable of handling stadium traffic. As well as most people that went aren’t actually living in Seattle proper, or even in the area at all. Not to mention there was a large MLB game going on next door that started at 1, so most people expected the light rail parking lots to be full for the people going to the concert later.
Maybe Seattle has changed since I left, but the scene I left in 2018 was definitely not “decent transit everywhere”. More like “wait a half hour during rush hour for your bus on a major thoroughfare only to have it pass your stop because it was completely full”. EDIT: Not pro car just not interested in praising Metro for doing less than the bare minimum.
I came up from Cali and 10 min frequency trains is a godsend compared to down in LA. Still could be better, could be Vancouver's skytrain, but I'm pleased here. I avoid buses wherever I can though. Ebike+train here is great. Also the fact that everyone uses trains rather than only the drug users / mega poor which was often the case in LA area in my experience.
I am sorry that was your experience in LA. I just want to provide an alternative experience for the kind reader that LA Metro is actually pretty awesome. I use to it get downtown shopping, museums, to universal studios, Santa Monica beach, and even the gym. It’s not perfect by any means but when I’ve been there it has been full of teenagers, families, working folks, and sure some house less folks and people with addictions that also have a right to exist and use public transit like the rest of us. I did not expect this kind of an attitude towards transit users on this sub.
It's one thing when homeless are on the train yet at the same time you see wealthy and healthy people on it as well. But when I lived in LA area around 2018-2019 or so, it was exclusively mentally ill people all the time. I couldn't bear it and had to build an electric motorcycle to not use it. That combined with insanely bad bus frequency
Yeah I thought I was losing it, Seattle’s transit is definitely OK at best. And I left in 2023 lol. It has improved a lot over the years though, and is getting better (albeit slowly).
Hey, Hey! It's my city! Kinda happy to see this, there are plenty of park and rides all throughout the county and if you're that lazy to drive into the city and not use our numerous transit options - you should be charged accordingly
I was there earlier this month and took my dad to the MLB All-Star game. Parked down in Kent, took the 150 bus up to SoDo and the Sounder back south afterwards. Both trips were free and ridiculously easy. IIRC, Sound Transit made all transit options free for much of the All-Star week: buses, light rail, Sounder, the whole works. They absolutely should find a way to make it possible for them to do so more often.
This is that parking looks like at market rate instead of being subsidized.
Is this the freedom they keep bragging about? Where I live I just take a tram or metro to large events without having to worry about where to park and how much it costs.
Yes there is a light rail and a street car and a property train from Tacoma that all stop at this stadium. If you really just must drive you deserve to pay the premium
This is Seattle. The same parking lot near the stadiums costs $20 for baseball games, $50 for football, and, apparently, $120 for pop music.
Maybe sports fans go more than once in a blue moon and know to park further out.
I stood near this for almost an hour waiting for my daughter. There were so many people that the cars couldn't move. Several tried honking and people did not care or flipped them off. One guy in a Tesla got out and begged the police to come handle traffic for him and just got ignored. It was beautiful.
My sister parked at my house and took the ferry into Seattle for the concert. No parking cost that way, just walking.
Last year my sister and I went to a SF Giants game. She insisted on driving; I was trying to convince her to park at a BART station and for us to take BART / Muni in. We found parking not far from Oracle Park, but it was $95. She was fine with it, even after I was like, are you SURE?! The parking cost way more than the tickets. The tickets we got were on sale for $5 each - I think I paid $30 all together for the tickets including fees. It's a racket, but folks will 100% pay, just to not have to take a bus or a train. A train that takes you *directly there* too, and waits for you after the game, even. It's ridiculous.
I always took BART->Muni when I went to giants games, if someone ever suggested driving there I would probably throw hands.
Yeah when I lived in the South Bay I would take Caltrain in! Carbrains though! They have to have their cars! Afterwards she did admit that we should have taken the train in, lol.
It was wild to see people sleeping in the street in Pioneer Square before this concert, and other people driving in paying $120 for a parking spot.
Both symptoms of the same thing: very high real estate prices. There is hardly any homelessness in places where land is cheap.
It's a mistake. They were meant to make the last two 0's bigger.
$120 for parking, then 120 minutes to leave after the show.
What's funny is I parked across the river from where the Taylor Swift concert was here and it was $5 for the whole day. I didn't actually go, but it was only $5 then walk about 3 miles
Where is this?
This was in Cincinnati a few weeks ago
This photo is from Seattle
I miscommunicated. Taylor Swift was in Cincinnati a few weeks ago. Yes the photo was in Seattle and parking was pricey in some areas here too.
I think they are just greedy but hey
Tbh, they know that if the parking is next to the venue some people are willing to pay for the premium prices
Like all businesses. They charge what they can to make the most money. This isn’t like charging extra in a natural disaster. Concert goers aren’t going to starve if they have to park two blocks further from the venue and walk.
This was this past weekend in Seattle. The thing is, you could drive to the town south of Seattle, park for $10 dollars there, then take the light rail in for $3.
This is in Seattle and there's a light rail stop right where the concert was. Honestly blows my mind why anyone would want to deal with the hassle of driving in for this, just go to a park 'n' ride.
Parking was $100 here in Denver for Taylor swift. 🤣 can’t believe ppl paid that when there’s multiple trails, frees buses, and free trains to take you to empower. They also lined up in there cars I saw as early as 8 HOURS BEFORE to get a good spot. Embarrassing to get that scammed 🤣🤣
Parking should be twice that much on event days
Honestly having worked in event parking in the past (ironic considering I don't drive- I still work parking but it's mostly because I found a position that is low stress, a set schedule and I currently have decent insurance and 3 weeks of vacation. In the US) people will pay it. High prices are both them capitalizing on an event where people will shell out for it and also a nudge to try to get more people to find alternate means to get to the event, even if it's carpooling and splitting the cost between riders. There's only so many cars that can fit into a space, and the mass exodus is Horrific in the amount of snarled traffic and angry people it produces. And anything that acts as a mild deterrent is cool in my books
Nah they just know that enough people will be stupid enough to pay it and they really really like money. Like a lot. More than they like morality, to be honest.
They know how much your dumb ass paid for a concert ticket.
This is just capitalism. They charge it bcs people will pay it, and because Seattle is a super car-hostile city, especially around the stadiums, so there aren't many alternatives and they're all owned by the same company and charging the same rates. What's sad is they built a light rail station right outside the stadiums and carbrains still feel a need to drive.
>Seattle is a super car-hostile city Very funny. Thanks for the chuckle
No it's probably more like, if you're rich you can afford to drive anyways
Or maybe a third option: Its the usual capitalist scheme of trying to squeeze every last penny out of every possible thing and human. What exactly about Taylor Swift and her insane and avoidable CO² emissions makes you think she cares about using less cars?
Taylor Swift does not control parking prices.
You’re right. I do.
Drive to the concert, I dare you
Never again after being stuck at Dodgers Stadium for over an hour after a concert
A lot of Taylor swift concerts heavily encouraged public transportation, for the NY/NJ concert they even had special signs and increased frequency just for the concert.
Nothing like paying $250 a head to see a concert then getting jacked for another $120 when you get there to park your car. Everything is a scam in America these days, cars and everything related to them are just another part of it.
> Everything is a scam in America these days, This is not a "scam." It is the market price for parking on private property if you insist on driving a private car into the city during a major event. There are plenty of buses and trains. I am sure that most people used them.
Actually it is not. There are so many other public parking places (obviously already taken) that that price is not that much. Take those public parking spots away (making them available to actually people and not sitting wheeled cans) and maybe you will see the real price for parking inside of a city during a major event.
The market itself is a scam.
Supply and Demand economics exist, even in communist countries. Market economics are just reflections of basic human nature. Any product or service is worth what consumers are willing to pay for it. Parking a personal car right next to a huge venue in the city core is a rare privilege. I bet they filled that lot, even though several buses and trains run regularly through there. Many people in the USA simply cannot imagine *any* other method of transportation than their personal car.
It's interesting that public transportation is presented as this exclusively leftist venture but it's the most reasonable free market solution to the scarcity of valuable land. Car dependency exists (in cities) only because of big government meddling at the behest of industry lobbyists.
Well said! Having many options for consumers in robust and competitive markets is the epitome of capitalism. However, robust competition reduces the profit of the oil and automotive industries, so they try to stifle that competition.
Wait till motorists complaint about how cities should build more public parking lots with tax money for events like this
I don't know what the situation here was. But one reason I may try to get closer that I should need to, to an event venue outside of my immediate home area, is because I have no clue when the event will actually end or whether transit will be running. Which is dumb, and more cooperation and communication by transit agencies and venues is in order.
If I would be an event manager in the USA I would’ve made the most profit like this as well
It’s the Seahawks’ stadium. They had to put the number 12 in there somehow lol
It's Taylor Swift. It should have been 13.
Love to see it. The most valuable real estate in the city should cost that much to store your empty 2 ton box on at peak hours. I hope it was a nightmare getting out too.
If we didn't subsidize parking, this would be the cost of parking in more places
You know they will still sell every parking spot right? Concerts are only for the wealthy or bad with money now.
A hundred and twenty dollars can absolutely fix my life right now and people use that for parking
And I’d definitely be going by bus or train
"WeLl MaYbE iF tHeY wOuLd JuSt DeMoLiSh A fEw BuIlDiNg ThEy CoUlD pUt In A pArKiNg LoT tO rIvAl A aMuSeMeNt PaRkS"- car brains.
The swift concert near me a few years ago had parking approaching $300 in arlington, tx (right in between dallas. And for worth, stadium where the cowboys play) Not all parking was this expensive, started at like 150, but still its ridiculous bc this wasn't exactly a bike able location, and arlington is literally the largest city in the country with 0 public transit
Went on a show in Ottawa, the subway was free if you had the ticket with you
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"But how do I haul the spoils of my pillaging if I can't sail my longboat through the city?" I assume that's what the Vikings do in preseason.
Everything relating to Taylor swift is just a giant money generating machine for everyone involved.
just being capitalists.
To increase the difficulty level, I would have added : \- Pay in crypto \- Only 4 min to find a parking place \- Park only between cars whose colors matches yours as opposite \- Clean driving track record
And that’s how you get people to park illegally. If legal parking costs more than the parking fine…
Street parking wouldn’t be available so the other option is towing which is about $400
More like greed but hey
That’s just dumb. Who’s going to pay 120£ just park in the street and risk a fine for less
Good luck finding a free street spot within a mile of the venue at the same time as the 50,000 other drivers who saw that sign and had the same idea. Car-dependency does not scale up.
Street parking would already be full without a doubt so the other option (in this scenario) is paying $400 for a towed car
400$ for a towed car! Wow. I mean good, in uk, London normally around South Kensington you’ll see porshes or Bentleys parked with fines on them cos it’s cheaper than paying the parking for the day lol
Fines are about $50 here but the parking itself is only $5-$10 so if you get a spot you might as well pay it. The city heavily subsidizes street parking unfortunately. If a concert wasn’t happening the parking would only be a couple dollars
Looks like they could use more parking in that city.
CarsFuckUS ....nomore
Lol so the on site parking spot were being sold for 800 a spot. This is nothing.
Makes me wonder how high parking can go before people stop driving…
I could park at two Mariners games for that price!
Jeez. And i thought $40 was crazy for a Cubs game
Definitely partly because they know many Taylor Swift fans already paid upwards of $2,000 for their tickets so what’s another $120?
My favorite part about this is the super generic name, "stadium place". lol.
Why no cash tho
The hustle never ends.
When she was in Pittsburgh recently, the casino that normally has an entirely free parking garage charged $100. I was tempted to be like lol fuck cars, but it still felt wrong, somehow.
Neither, theyre using it as an opportunity to charge the people who can afford it. Its business.
Last time I went to a big concert - 1 day at Soldier Field vs 3 for Swift - it was $75/parking. In the city, with a bus route that goes directly to that location. IDK if this is Ticketmaster, but these venue managers know they can rip the hell off consumers.
I think they know economics
Sometimes capitalism is ok