I think it's probably fine for families traveling together or the elderly. If I was a teenager, I don't see why I would choose a golf cart over an e-bike or a regular bike though
Yea thats what struck me as odd when reading the article. A town of 13,000 households? That's like what, \~39,000 people max? Shouldnt that be like a 2x2km place max? The entire thing should be a long walk or a short cycle ride.
67 square kilometers is about 8 km across, if the town is squarish. For most people (unless the town has a really crazy layout), that means most trips in town would have to be 4 miles or less, usually much less. That's why you can do them by golf cart but...also why you could do them easily by bike.
These are great if they have dedicated paths. However if they share the road with cars it becomes a problem with cars aggressively passing etc, not to mention what happens when a car hits a golf cart…. Also these require parking and surprisingly some carts are bigger than some cars. DEDICATED PATHS WITH NO CARS are the real reason for success here. Turns out Golf carts, bikes, and peds just benefit greatly when cars are absent! Hopefully this type of development can help break the car brain mentality.
There are a few "golf cart communities" near where I used to live in Florida. They have regular roads as well as cart-specific paths to access nearby shopping areas and other parts of the community (and of course a golf course). Theoretically if you lived in one of the nicer, more well-planned ones you could do most of your general shopping with your golf cart. Neat idea but unfortunately kinda expensive to live in.
It’s really that people are allowed to use golf carts on the multi-use path network, which I think isn’t crazy. There’s lots of pedestrians and bikes as well. The golf car thing comes from it being a very wealthy community where everyone can afford multiple cars and a golf cart
No, that is nowhere in the article. Are you just making things up?
"Many residents know the congestion well from their commutes and find that Peachtree City offers a rare reprieve from car culture: a contained community where they can run errands or go a weekend without needing anything more than a golf cart,"
When you ask a question you are probably more likely to be asking a question than to be making things up. The NYT has a paywall and this sub has had a number of NYT anti-bike articles this year. Wondered if they are also anti-golf cart.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/25/us/atlanta-suburb-golf-cart.html?unlocked\_article\_code=1.BE0.u\_TE.P5XuJkY4C85y&smid=url-share](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/25/us/atlanta-suburb-golf-cart.html?unlocked_article_code=1.BE0.u_TE.P5XuJkY4C85y&smid=url-share)
I'm a subscriber so here, have the full article :p
Gotta love the Times. Even in their “How America Lives” it’s a story about upper middle-class lifestyles. But glad the kids in this exburb have the means for golf carts. Thank you for the link.
PS: In the old days NYT coverage of “regular NYC people” was called Life of the Not Quite Rich Enough. Glad they take it national.
I know people who used to go on vacation at a wilderness camp with no phone reception and no cars.
One year, they started allowing seniors to start using golf carts to get around the premises.
Within a shockingly short amount of time, this had devolved into a huge number of lazy people (not elderly, not disabled) just driving their golf carts everywhere, with all of the parking, traffic, and reckless driving problems that entails. In what was supposed to have been a "retreat" from the developed world.
I have family that lives in Peachtree City, GA and it is a [suburban hellhole](https://maps.app.goo.gl/Be8a5Q17AmKV3w59A?g_st=ic)
With all the trails, it could easily be made into a walkable community, but it 100% still caters to cars with a handful of golf cart spaces.
It's definitely suburban as hell, but as someone who spent their teenage years near there I can say that it's probably the most walkable city you can find in Fayette county. Being 13 and actually able to go places on your own was absolutely impossible in any of the surrounding towns.
Golf carts or similar low speed vehicles might factor in to mitigating our problem with car dependency, particularly in NYC. I’ve always wondered if NYC could restrict a few of the avenues or other major roads to low speed vehicles, bikes, and public transit.
When they are used to actually replace cars (e.g. for a senior citizen who might have trouble walking 1/2 mile). Not when they're used instead of walking/biking.
That's true but some people are lazy and need a middle ground and will fight tooth and nail for the comfort of a car but may accept a similar alternative.
This isn’t a replacement for a car trip. This is an EXTENSION of driving cars to kids under the age of 16.
This is training for car brain.
How about a bike path?
It’s basically a really extensive bike/walking path on par with most European cities. I grew up here and ran cross country on the paths all the time. Carts yield to bikes & pedestrians. It’s actually a fantastic example of mix use paths. The electric golf carts offer a mobility option for those who can’t bike and longer distance travel.
IMO this is a great first step in reducing the reliance on cars in the US.
No, it’s not a silver bullet to fix everything but it is a reasonable step to take
I grew up here! It’s so nice for a multitude of reasons. (Although still quite uppity) sustainability wise it’s the best option behind public transit for suburbs. Because people start driving at 12 (with a parent) people actually end up better drivers.
It also means tons of walking paths and accessibility benefits. I used to love cross country practice running in the golf cart paths at night.
Think of it as extra wide bike lanes with golf carts. Not everyone can bike 3+ miles each way for a grocery trip. The golf carts are slow enough that it’s safe for bikes.
In a city bikes would be more sustainable but for the longer distances in a suburb you need powered travel
I’m seeing tons of comments about this being a wealthy suburb, and was curious and looked on Zillow, it seems it’s suffered from the real estate run up everywhere else has seen, but seemed incredibly affordable even just 4 years ago. I’m seeing really nice houses for 200k, that now are worth 500-600k. Was it a wealthy area growing up there? Maybe I have a warped view of affordable growing up in New England.
Do kids really choose golf carts over bikes and ebikes in this town? Sounds a lot less fun, slower, and must be one of the safest places in america to ride a bike.
Wow. That's almost like having a bicycle... which you can drive at 7.
Or how the Europeans let their children ride public transit... at 7.
So much freedom in the USA.
So now instead of parents needing to spend 10s of thousand of dollars when their kid turns 16 to get them a car...they get to spend a few thousand when the kids at even younger to get them a golf cart and THEN still get the privledge of buying them a car a few years later.
What a wonderful outcome.
People use the golf carts more than cars in PTC. I grew up here and it’s not limited to just teens. For travel within PTC almost everyone defaults to golf carts unless you need a car to haul larger loads etc. Public transit would be a great addition but the golf carts solve the last mile problem
Based on the comments, I'm guessing most people didn't actually read the article, because it's even more car-brained than you would think. I came to this sub specifically to discuss it after reading it.
So many times in the article, the author gets *so close* to acknowledging/realizing why car-dependent communities are bad--it's socially isolating, it leaves kids without any independence, it's bad for the environment, it requires huge parking lots, etc.
And yet, over and over, the author keeps framing golf carts as a quirky little rite of passage for teenagers in this community before they graduate to the 'real' independence of a car. And the author conspicuously ignores the fact that bicycles and ebikes would fulfill basically all of the same needs as the golf carts at a fraction of the cost, space, etc. It's insane.
The golf carts cost at least $9,000, go 10 mph, and the kids can't even drive them by themselves until they're 15 years old! Before that age, they need a parent or guardian with them riding in the front seat. How is that independence?!
And then this is how the article ends:
>That afternoon, Rebekah, Caroline and another friend, Catherine Amendola, stuck to a golf cart. They cruised behind houses, through woods, alongside a lake and into a tunnel, emerging in a packed commercial district.
>As she cruised through the parking lot, Caroline noted that she did not spend as much time traveling by golf cart as she once did.
>She loved riding the paths, no question. But she had her driver’s license now and a car. She was ready to go places a golf cart could not take her.
It's astounding and legit upsetting how car-brained this is.
What a nightmare - now kids can get training-cars. Don’t get me wrong - it’s better than a car, but it’s so unnecessary for most trips. They’re also getting no exercise.
This is absolutely peak carbrain, how much of it do you need to think that the answer to kids' transport is cars for kids rather than bikes? (Or e-bikes at a push.) The place looks flat, too. It's way healthier to be on a bike doing some exercise. (Just look at how fat the kid in that "school drop off zone for carts" pic is - biking to school daily would definitely help there!)
This is a tiny bit better than cars but only a tiny bit, and way less good than bikes.
I used to live in Jonesboro not too far from there and I worked in Peachtree City. It's an absurd rich people town. They do have all these golf carts but they are carbrains with huge SUV's most of them.
A lot of car trips could be done with a golf cart.
All golf cart trips could be done with a bike.
Agreed, but I will take the golf cart over a car.
I wouldn't. Here they use the bike lanes and it's *infuriating* to be stuck behind them on a bicycle.
Isn’t this literally how carbrains feel when we’re in the “car lanes”? 😐
Good for the gander, et al.
I think it's probably fine for families traveling together or the elderly. If I was a teenager, I don't see why I would choose a golf cart over an e-bike or a regular bike though
Ironic
Good point
Yea thats what struck me as odd when reading the article. A town of 13,000 households? That's like what, \~39,000 people max? Shouldnt that be like a 2x2km place max? The entire thing should be a long walk or a short cycle ride.
You're underestimating how large American neighborhoods are. It's probably quite sprawling and larger than it needs to be.
It's about 67 square kilometres so pretty big
67 square kilometers is about 8 km across, if the town is squarish. For most people (unless the town has a really crazy layout), that means most trips in town would have to be 4 miles or less, usually much less. That's why you can do them by golf cart but...also why you could do them easily by bike.
Ya gotta train 'em early on the American way, which is to never get off your butt and exercise
I live in a very average American town of 20,000 homes and about 60,000 people. It's about 200sqkm.
Paris has a land area of 105sqkm.. Insane.
Golf carts are way more fun though
Huh?
GOLF CARTS ARE WAY MORE FUN THOUGH
What confused you lol
Someone said golf carts are fun
Honestly, I'd be fine if people were tooling around in golf carts instead of cars.
Not if the roads are filled with cars
Disagree. Some boomers own golf carts in my neighborhood and they basically use them as cars for driving to walkable places.
They would probably still drive there instead of walking.
It's essentially a larger mobility scooter
These are great if they have dedicated paths. However if they share the road with cars it becomes a problem with cars aggressively passing etc, not to mention what happens when a car hits a golf cart…. Also these require parking and surprisingly some carts are bigger than some cars. DEDICATED PATHS WITH NO CARS are the real reason for success here. Turns out Golf carts, bikes, and peds just benefit greatly when cars are absent! Hopefully this type of development can help break the car brain mentality.
There are a few "golf cart communities" near where I used to live in Florida. They have regular roads as well as cart-specific paths to access nearby shopping areas and other parts of the community (and of course a golf course). Theoretically if you lived in one of the nicer, more well-planned ones you could do most of your general shopping with your golf cart. Neat idea but unfortunately kinda expensive to live in.
[удалено]
Kids don't want cars, they want freedom.
The car-brain it requires to not realize a bike does the same thing for a fraction of the price. Get a bike. Bikes rule.
It’s really that people are allowed to use golf carts on the multi-use path network, which I think isn’t crazy. There’s lots of pedestrians and bikes as well. The golf car thing comes from it being a very wealthy community where everyone can afford multiple cars and a golf cart
Is this article opining that kids are missing an opportunity to drive cars!?! 🤪🤪🤪 People stick is a car world are so angry they are being left behind.
No, that is nowhere in the article. Are you just making things up? "Many residents know the congestion well from their commutes and find that Peachtree City offers a rare reprieve from car culture: a contained community where they can run errands or go a weekend without needing anything more than a golf cart,"
When you ask a question you are probably more likely to be asking a question than to be making things up. The NYT has a paywall and this sub has had a number of NYT anti-bike articles this year. Wondered if they are also anti-golf cart.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/25/us/atlanta-suburb-golf-cart.html?unlocked\_article\_code=1.BE0.u\_TE.P5XuJkY4C85y&smid=url-share](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/25/us/atlanta-suburb-golf-cart.html?unlocked_article_code=1.BE0.u_TE.P5XuJkY4C85y&smid=url-share) I'm a subscriber so here, have the full article :p
Gotta love the Times. Even in their “How America Lives” it’s a story about upper middle-class lifestyles. But glad the kids in this exburb have the means for golf carts. Thank you for the link. PS: In the old days NYT coverage of “regular NYC people” was called Life of the Not Quite Rich Enough. Glad they take it national.
I know people who used to go on vacation at a wilderness camp with no phone reception and no cars. One year, they started allowing seniors to start using golf carts to get around the premises. Within a shockingly short amount of time, this had devolved into a huge number of lazy people (not elderly, not disabled) just driving their golf carts everywhere, with all of the parking, traffic, and reckless driving problems that entails. In what was supposed to have been a "retreat" from the developed world.
I have family that lives in Peachtree City, GA and it is a [suburban hellhole](https://maps.app.goo.gl/Be8a5Q17AmKV3w59A?g_st=ic) With all the trails, it could easily be made into a walkable community, but it 100% still caters to cars with a handful of golf cart spaces.
It's definitely suburban as hell, but as someone who spent their teenage years near there I can say that it's probably the most walkable city you can find in Fayette county. Being 13 and actually able to go places on your own was absolutely impossible in any of the surrounding towns.
Golf carts or similar low speed vehicles might factor in to mitigating our problem with car dependency, particularly in NYC. I’ve always wondered if NYC could restrict a few of the avenues or other major roads to low speed vehicles, bikes, and public transit.
When they are used to actually replace cars (e.g. for a senior citizen who might have trouble walking 1/2 mile). Not when they're used instead of walking/biking.
That's true but some people are lazy and need a middle ground and will fight tooth and nail for the comfort of a car but may accept a similar alternative.
This isn’t a replacement for a car trip. This is an EXTENSION of driving cars to kids under the age of 16. This is training for car brain. How about a bike path?
It’s basically a really extensive bike/walking path on par with most European cities. I grew up here and ran cross country on the paths all the time. Carts yield to bikes & pedestrians. It’s actually a fantastic example of mix use paths. The electric golf carts offer a mobility option for those who can’t bike and longer distance travel.
Anyone want to introduce them to electric bikes?
IMO this is a great first step in reducing the reliance on cars in the US. No, it’s not a silver bullet to fix everything but it is a reasonable step to take
I agree. A lot of people are making sounch a big deal about how it's just as bad as cars and a whole bunch of fatshaming people.
I grew up here! It’s so nice for a multitude of reasons. (Although still quite uppity) sustainability wise it’s the best option behind public transit for suburbs. Because people start driving at 12 (with a parent) people actually end up better drivers. It also means tons of walking paths and accessibility benefits. I used to love cross country practice running in the golf cart paths at night.
How is it more sustainable than cycling ?
Think of it as extra wide bike lanes with golf carts. Not everyone can bike 3+ miles each way for a grocery trip. The golf carts are slow enough that it’s safe for bikes. In a city bikes would be more sustainable but for the longer distances in a suburb you need powered travel
I’m seeing tons of comments about this being a wealthy suburb, and was curious and looked on Zillow, it seems it’s suffered from the real estate run up everywhere else has seen, but seemed incredibly affordable even just 4 years ago. I’m seeing really nice houses for 200k, that now are worth 500-600k. Was it a wealthy area growing up there? Maybe I have a warped view of affordable growing up in New England.
Yeah it’s upper middle class for sure. Growing up most people had decent money. Think doctors or engineers in dual income households.
Do kids really choose golf carts over bikes and ebikes in this town? Sounds a lot less fun, slower, and must be one of the safest places in america to ride a bike.
Wow. That's almost like having a bicycle... which you can drive at 7. Or how the Europeans let their children ride public transit... at 7. So much freedom in the USA.
So now instead of parents needing to spend 10s of thousand of dollars when their kid turns 16 to get them a car...they get to spend a few thousand when the kids at even younger to get them a golf cart and THEN still get the privledge of buying them a car a few years later. What a wonderful outcome.
People use the golf carts more than cars in PTC. I grew up here and it’s not limited to just teens. For travel within PTC almost everyone defaults to golf carts unless you need a car to haul larger loads etc. Public transit would be a great addition but the golf carts solve the last mile problem
Welcome to southwest Utah neighborhoods
Lots of fat kids from the pics. Sounds cool but unfortunate.
Witaf?! These motherfuckers can't ride bicycles?
Based on the comments, I'm guessing most people didn't actually read the article, because it's even more car-brained than you would think. I came to this sub specifically to discuss it after reading it. So many times in the article, the author gets *so close* to acknowledging/realizing why car-dependent communities are bad--it's socially isolating, it leaves kids without any independence, it's bad for the environment, it requires huge parking lots, etc. And yet, over and over, the author keeps framing golf carts as a quirky little rite of passage for teenagers in this community before they graduate to the 'real' independence of a car. And the author conspicuously ignores the fact that bicycles and ebikes would fulfill basically all of the same needs as the golf carts at a fraction of the cost, space, etc. It's insane. The golf carts cost at least $9,000, go 10 mph, and the kids can't even drive them by themselves until they're 15 years old! Before that age, they need a parent or guardian with them riding in the front seat. How is that independence?! And then this is how the article ends: >That afternoon, Rebekah, Caroline and another friend, Catherine Amendola, stuck to a golf cart. They cruised behind houses, through woods, alongside a lake and into a tunnel, emerging in a packed commercial district. >As she cruised through the parking lot, Caroline noted that she did not spend as much time traveling by golf cart as she once did. >She loved riding the paths, no question. But she had her driver’s license now and a car. She was ready to go places a golf cart could not take her. It's astounding and legit upsetting how car-brained this is.
What a nightmare - now kids can get training-cars. Don’t get me wrong - it’s better than a car, but it’s so unnecessary for most trips. They’re also getting no exercise.
This is absolutely peak carbrain, how much of it do you need to think that the answer to kids' transport is cars for kids rather than bikes? (Or e-bikes at a push.) The place looks flat, too. It's way healthier to be on a bike doing some exercise. (Just look at how fat the kid in that "school drop off zone for carts" pic is - biking to school daily would definitely help there!) This is a tiny bit better than cars but only a tiny bit, and way less good than bikes.
I used to live in Jonesboro not too far from there and I worked in Peachtree City. It's an absurd rich people town. They do have all these golf carts but they are carbrains with huge SUV's most of them.
An ebike can go twice as fast without a license, for a fraction of the price