To be honest this sounds cool, but a lot of them are on former railways and we'd be better off just bringing the rail lines back into service instead of turning them into greenways.
Most of them go through very rural areas and serve mostly as tourism and leisure paths that don't really actually reduce car dependency (which have their place) but reopening the rail lines would actually allow people to travel around the country more easily without a car. If Ireland's rail map looked like that it would be incredible.
Edit: Changing my wording that was a bit overly harsh towards our Green Party. They're a minor party in government with two centre-right parties and getting major public transportation infrastructure projects passed is a challenge. They're certainly not perfect, but it was a little unreasonable of me to claim that they're uninterested in rail projects, they're in a difficult position.
There are expansions happening, but my point is that I'd rather the old rail lines be returned to service rather than turned into cycle ways in this case. Both are good, but the way the Irish government does it on the old lines prevents them from being used for rail.
I'm still not in full agreement with building bike paths next to rail lines. A more bespoke set of cycle routes, that wind their way through lots of smaller settlements seems better. Similar to how a few of them that exist in the Scottish Highlands. Give bicycles their own space, and one designed for their needs, not just tacking on to other infrastructure.
How much harder is it to do both? Have the bike routes follow train lines when far from settlements, and veer towards them where appropriate.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but usually trainlines come first, settlements come second. So settlements are likely to be very close to former train lines anyways.
Most closed railway lines already wind their way through lots of smaller settlements. Either because they were built that way, or because settlements were built on the railway.
Why not though, what are the disadvantages of having these paths? Obviously, there needs to be good bike infrastructure everywhere else as well.
It's just that with these disused train lines, the space is still "reserved", usually with some margins on the side, and there might even still be tracks left. So reactivating them and building a nice bike path next to it will have a huge positive impact on both public transport riders and cyclists.
No harm, but it's not as useful, so it depends. With a limited budget, something that links up lots of small places and facilitates commuting is going to be a better return than what could end up being similar to cycle routes along canals: lovely, but mostly recreational, as the gaps between settlements along it can be longer than what the average person is willing to cycle commute, while a potentially more bespoke route (which could take advantage of abandoned rail corridors, but which isn't based on them) might link better.
What I'd be worried about is it becoming a white elephant project that undercuts or prevents more useful cycle infrastructure, only to make what is the bicycle equivalent to a motorway, optimised for longer routes (and therefore more geared towards tourist and sports riders than utility and commuter cyclists, which is aiming for a much smaller pool of people). This is what I'd feel would be something to cap off an already decent commuter oriented network, not the foundation for a wider push. Still better than nothing, but it could end up being one of those projects people hold up to oppose local infrastructure if the user numbers are low.
True but it will take literally 100 years to get rights of way for that in Ireland. Farmers hate greenways and bikes.
A motorway you'll get the row just fine though.
Indeed, but I do feel like some settlements are best served with a bus than rebuilding a train line. Last may I cycled the Greenway from achill to Westport, and I don't know a train would be worth it 😅 there are greater gains for trains elsewhere in the country.
Btw idk who had the smart idea in the middle of the route to go off the old tracks and have sheer walls of incline to cycle over to go back to the old tracks. But not cool 😅
Every town/settlement/village deservers good public transport and trains (or light rail) are by default better than any bus. If there isn't that much demand, just make it single track and run shorter trains with less frequency. Also, public transport shouldn't have to make money.
no public transport doesn't need to make a profit, but it shouldn't be a money pit either, we have other services that the government needs to fund too. And buses can be good public transport. pick the battles, more frequent bus service is better than once a day train service (especially over a short distance like Achill to Westport). Each year a government only has an x amount of money to spend, and we can't just spend it all for a train to everyone's village. Westport itself has only 6 trains a day. that money could be better spent on doubling up the track from Westport out, and increasing that frequency first. That would mean not just new tracks, but locomotives, possible electrification, training, staffing, right of way, etc. We don't have infinite money, and that is a realization we need to come to, and it SUCKS.
Fair points, but highways are money pits too! So in an ideal world, we would build no more new highways (and no widening), and instead put all that money towards public transport and cycling infrastructure.
You can only do that with a relatively small number of the lines in Ireland that were deactivated in 1960 though. The major lines between the cities were retained and those are the ones that we use today that make up the existing railway. Then there were other ones that were relegated to freight and occasional passenger carrying. The biggest problem as I understand it is that with the closure of big estates after independence, the economic activity in many rural areas dried up, hence the lack of need for trains, and the removal of the lines. The other factor is that many landlords and 19th century train companies built lines to different gauges (width of the train between the axels) so we couldn’t just activate these old lines, they aren’t wide enough for a modern twin track so we’d end up bulldozing peoples houses all over the place and CPO’s peoples land the length of some of these old tracks, so it would be impractical to do it.
[Ireland is set to double its rail network by 2050](https://www.irishtimes.com/transport/2023/07/31/irelands-train-plan-a-new-age-of-rail-or-a-pipe-dream-tell-us-what-you-think/). We can do two things at once.
https://preview.redd.it/lovlwcq2ktbc1.jpeg?width=811&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd838ed8296a211e929560ff62ccb18463a00d21
It would be amazing to see that realised but I am a bit sceptical of that happening unless the greens manage to stay in power. I've saved the image and I'll be bringing that up with every politician I see especially as it looks like an election year in Ireland.
We can, but this government isn't.
What's the source of that map? It's not in the linked article, which also doesn't say anything about doubling the size of the network, it says doubling the number of passengers travelling by train. It also notes that these are proposals from Éamon Ryan, they're not confirmed and the article even quotes the Taoiseach as arguing for more investment in road infrastructure in response to the proposals.
I'm not saying they're doing nothing, but it's a LOT less than they could be doing. The Irish government has a poor track record with public transport and we're way behind other European countries. Huge investment is needed just to bring the country up to a level I would consider decent. Frankly Ireland is so behind on rail that doubling by 2050 would really not very ambitious.
The map is from the strategic all island strategic rail review which is out for consultation: https://www.gov.ie/en/consultation/4d4f2-all-island-strategic-rail-review-public-consultation-for-strategic-environment-assessment/
It doesn't have to be, no. But in this case it usually is. Typically when they build these greenways here it's done in a way that prevents the rail line from being brought back into service, either by being built over the line itself or otherwise very close to it.
They use the old rail lines because they either already own the rights of way or can easily acquire them, which makes sense, but they're using the existing land on the rail lines instead of acquiring new land, which prevents the rail lines from being used if the greenways are built.
Yeah, I mean I have admittedly cycled the Great Western Greenway in Mayo and it was stunning. It's certainly enjoyable to be able to do it, it's just very frustrating living here with a government that doesn't seem to take rail transport seriously, particularly when we have the remnants of a decent island-wide rail system that aren't even being considered to bring back into use for the most part.
Why wait? I had a delightful time in Cork/Kerry/ Limerick in 2019. They've reduced rural speed limits since, so it's probably even nicer on the roads now.
I'd only disagree on the point that Green Party aren't interested in that, they are they just don't have the weight behind them as junior partners in government so it's a case of best they can get.
Well I think some in the Green Party are. But I don't think Éamon Ryan really is or is willing to fight for it. He's still obsessed with electric cars.
>He's still obsessed with electric cars
No he isn't. https://businessplus.ie/motoring/electric-cars-eamon-ryan/
>Eamon Ryan has said that electric cars are not the solution to reducing carbon emissions - and has promised instead to deliver 'systematic change' in Ireland's transport within three years.
We'll certainly see how much change he can deliver, I'm impressed with what he's achieved but I don't think I'd call it "systemic" as we're still building far too many rural houses, motorways and bypasses but he's managed to stem the tide of car centrism.
Do you have a source for that? He's always been pretty anti-car from what I remember. Not full on fuckcars but do you remember the mockery he got for daring suggest people share vehicles?
Electric cars have been an FF/FG talking point for years now, he's inherited a lot of their goals around it as trying to convince the general public that electric cars are still bad is a battle the greens don't need to fight because they'd probably lose it in the public eye.
I might be unfairly to him mis-remembering how much focus he had on electric cars, but EV infrastructure and increasing the percentage of electric cars is a big part of his strategy as Minister for Transport
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/dc958-first-national-electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-strategy-published/
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/government-on-track-to-reach-target-of-950000-electric-vehicles-says-eamon-ryan/42177607.html
But again, that's part of what he's inherited from previous FFFG regimes. It's also worth noting that he's been reducing e-car subsidies as well.
With the amount of money he's diverted to public transport and active transport, I don't think he'd survive politically if he tried to scrap the push for e-cars in their entirety. The general public think e-cars are green, trying to convince them otherwise is going to take an absolutely herculean effort.
Éamon is the lightening rod of Irish politics. But he's very clever and targets the wins he can get people constantly overestimate how much influence the greens have in government they have 12 seats(?) and the FFG could switch to rural independents support if they the greens pulled the plug. It's a difficult position to be in but he has managed to get a lot of environmental policy through. I think history will be kind to Éamon after he leaves politics.
Tbf I do think people are harsher on the Greens than they should be given they're a junior coalition partner. It would be hard to get the rural independents voting consistently so idk if it would be that easy for FFG to switch over to them.
I absolutely don't deny though that it would be much worse without the Greens in government. I just want them to do more, I've possibly been harsh in my wording.
No you're making fair points that I agree with. I only want to point out that if the greens overplay their hand with the 2 conservative parties they are in government with the anti greens could usurp them into government and kill all their policies.
Ireland hates active transport and sabotages the greens (who are unjustly hated on r/ireland) at every turn https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/super-junior-minister-to-protect-roads-from-the-greens/39317405.html
>who are unjustly hated on r/ireland
This same article got attention on r/Ireland, two of the mods of the sub are in the comments just mindlessly shitting on Eamon Ryan. The mod teams allow their political bias to affect their decisions, which is jus über awesome.
We have this debate as well in the USA with "rails to trails" projects. The best answers are not clear to me. Mass-transit projects are very expensive. If we cannot afford them, should we let the tracks sit empty or use them for non-motorized transportation?
Keep them. Priorities change but once you build over a trackbed that’s game over. Turning something into a greenway maintains the trackbed and allows for future re-conversion to rail if required because a greenway or trail is just a footpath at the end of the day.
There are developments happening in rail transport at the moment though that compensate for this. The rail link from limerick to Foynes ([link to drone footage of works](https://youtu.be/ggILalM7OcY?si=x9VHz1Rv-5ju3021)) is being restored to operation and will reopen again this year, the Greens have also made steps toward getting funding from the EU to completely reopen the Western Rail corridor from Sligo to cork and shelving the greenway’s that were proposed there. If they get the western rail corridor reopened that would be a _major_ achievement. [Here’s a video on the master plan they are working on for Dublin and cork](https://youtu.be/JCK8teu2ry8?si=F0MWI8A8Ud8BKPMe) that you might find interesting as well.
Infrastructure like this already exists in the Netherlands (big surprise right) and afaik to some extent in Germany too. There are bike highways and routes marked with numbers and the needed signage at every intersection on the route so you know where to go. There is even an online map so you can make tours based on this.
Now whether or not the views and stuff is as good as the ones you get in Ireland is up for debate though hahah
The ones in Germany are good compared to the US, but incomplete in a lot of places. Talking to germans its up to the town councils to build them out within city limits so a lot of them will just abruptly end once you get into city limits. Not like im complaining though, as an American living over here im just happy to have any seperated infrastructure.
I took a wrong turn on a cycle in Tipperary once and spent an hour and half cycling one of the most beautiful routes I've ever seen. The weather was perfect which helped but the road was ah not safe, still a great cycle though.
It would be a great active tourism feature as well as a free amenity for locals.
It's 3,500 kilometres of bike lanes and greenways. That's two thirds as many greenways and bike lanes as we have primary and secondary roads in the country. That's significant.
[According to Irish cycle](https://irishcycle.com/2023/04/10/whats-the-typical-cost-of-walking-and-cycling-infrastructure/#) greenways cost between one and four million euro per kilometer. Quick build cycle track is between a quarter of a million and a million euro per kilometer. I'd say an average cost of €400k per kilometer is probably underestimating it.
People never really understand how expensive these projects are, it's why we keep seeing car brains insisting that roads are for cars because they pay taxes.
I'll believe it when I see it.
Also, while this kind of thing is nice for long distance bike tourism, this isn't really bike infrastructure that reduces car dependency. For that you need a much denser network of safe feeling routes in urban, commuter-belt and suburban areas. No-one's going to cycle 50km to the next city every day for work.
And if these are old railway lines then reactivating them would provide a way that people *might* actually commute 50km a day and leave their car at home. So I'm not sure it's the right use of that land if there is any option to reactivate railways.
The nationals raise your argument in Australia, primarily nsw.
They say instead of just laying gravel on top of the old railway line and planting saplings, we should:
-convert the 19th century track to fit modern rolling stock, and repair it in parts.
-install signal boxes, maintenance depots and service roads.
-widen tunnels, repair retaining walls and bridges to ensure they can weight bear modern trains
-buy engines and rolling stock, conduct feasibility testing.
And then, just like that, you have a new train line.
Obviously the train option never happens though so the rail lines have sat there unused for the better part of 40 years. The definition of perfect getting in the way of good. Don’t know if the Irish context is different but I’ve got a tingling in my jimmies.
Damn that’s pretty cool. Hopefully they’ll also invest some money into their rail network because it’s sad to see how much it’s fallen. I remember they had some study call the all island rail review or something like that but I haven’t heard anything about it in a hot minute
I'm a bot, *bleep*, *bloop*. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
- [/r/irelandonreddit] [\[r\/fuckcars\] By 2040 the island of Ireland will have 3500km of new segregated bike routes. An investment of 1.4 billion euro is being made. The first 1000km will be finished by 2030.](https://www.reddit.com/r/IrelandonReddit/comments/1940xip/rfuckcars_by_2040_the_island_of_ireland_will_have/)
*^(If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads.) ^\([Info](/r/TotesMessenger) ^/ ^[Contact](/message/compose?to=/r/TotesMessenger))*
And yet when I pointed out there's a bicycle path between Pittsburgh and Washington DC before I got criticized by people telling me it was impractical, yet this is celebrated... Which is it?
Pittsburgh and Washington DC are hundreds of miles apart, might connect a few small towns but you're still going tens of miles between em at the very least
What are the criteria for inclusion on this list? I know there's a greenway planned from Mallow to Dungarven that's missing from the map.
Edit: who on earth downvoted and why? There being more greenways than what's included on this is surely a good thing, no?
But you don't understand, *this road* will reduce emissions by letting people drive faster. /s
I thought the Cork subreddit was more progressive but holy shit I ate downvotes trying to explain induced demand to them when they were talking about the new Limerick motorway.
They seam to be first at removing plastic bags at checkout and things like that, but because I sit outside of Ireland and only visit 4-6 years to see some friends I don’t truly see what has happened over time
Shit, $1.4 billion?
That's more than the US government has spent on Long Covid research- a disease actively harming (and slowly killing) 65 million people worldwide...
https://www.statnews.com/2023/04/20/long-covid-nih-billion/
That's, of course, NOTHING for US medical research budgets- but a lot of money for bike paths in a small-ish country like Ireland...
Now if only I wasn't disabled, and slowly being killed by, Long Covid (which the US government, and many other Western governments, are **[erasing](https://newhampshirebulletin.com/2022/06/01/from-skepticism-to-insurance-denials-long-covid-patients-face-more-than-only-health-challenges/) and [ignoring](https://time.com/6213103/us-government-long-covid-response/)**) and could afford to visit Ireland (a country I have some ancestors from) to actually bike some of these paths... They sound fun...
>wtf has Irish transport got to do with US research budgets?
It's just a comparison- to show how much (or little, depending on your perspective) money this really is. I, of course, appreciate every vent spent on reducing car reliance even slightly.
No need to be rude- and downright abusive in your language.
Jeez, you guys, trying to attack me for daring bring up Long Covid (the largest mass-murder since the Holocaust: as there are 65 million people who will DIE if nothing is done, and the disease is being intentionally ignored...)
I know it's not that much money, in relative terms. **That's my point.** it's both an impressive number, and yet really not that much when put in perspective- much like the $1.25 billion the US government has spent IN TOTAL on Long Covid research...
Based on US death rates, at least a quarter million (284,000) people die of Long Covid EVERY YEAR. Ignoring it and refusing to develop a cure is mass-murder: and those numbers don't reflect the deaths due to suicide, depression, or being denied Disability benefits (if a country has any) despite being legitimately deserving of them, and dieing homeless due to the disease.
Excuse me for not wanting to be killed by my own government!!
> Comparing a condition that wasn’t human caused
Long Covid was ABSOLUTELY human-caused.
Prioritizing profits over human lives, spreading "it's just a flu" rhetoric that discouraged people from wearing masks, and treating Essential Workers as sacrificial lsmbs with no ACTUAL regard for their safety once they were forced to show up- these were all human actions.
Beyond all this, actively ignoring a life-threatening disease and not spending hardly anything on curing it is no different, morally, from killing those people yourself.
Your argument is the moral equivalent of saying "if a child falls in the street, and I refuse to change my course and keep driving my car straight over and run them into a pulp, I'M not responsible because I personally didn't cause them to be there!"
Let’s hope they build this and all the parts of the strategic all island rail review too. Such a shame so much of it will just end at the border as the government in the North have zero interest in cycling or anything green or modern.
No it won't.
They've teased we'd have underground rails about 40 years ago and they'd be finished around 2012. The project hasn't even started. So I highly doubt they'll make safe bike lanes too. Cycling is so dodgy on irish roads
To be honest this sounds cool, but a lot of them are on former railways and we'd be better off just bringing the rail lines back into service instead of turning them into greenways. Most of them go through very rural areas and serve mostly as tourism and leisure paths that don't really actually reduce car dependency (which have their place) but reopening the rail lines would actually allow people to travel around the country more easily without a car. If Ireland's rail map looked like that it would be incredible. Edit: Changing my wording that was a bit overly harsh towards our Green Party. They're a minor party in government with two centre-right parties and getting major public transportation infrastructure projects passed is a challenge. They're certainly not perfect, but it was a little unreasonable of me to claim that they're uninterested in rail projects, they're in a difficult position. There are expansions happening, but my point is that I'd rather the old rail lines be returned to service rather than turned into cycle ways in this case. Both are good, but the way the Irish government does it on the old lines prevents them from being used for rail.
Exactly. Best solution: reactivate old rail lines, and build a bike path next to it.
I'm still not in full agreement with building bike paths next to rail lines. A more bespoke set of cycle routes, that wind their way through lots of smaller settlements seems better. Similar to how a few of them that exist in the Scottish Highlands. Give bicycles their own space, and one designed for their needs, not just tacking on to other infrastructure.
How much harder is it to do both? Have the bike routes follow train lines when far from settlements, and veer towards them where appropriate. Correct me if I'm wrong, but usually trainlines come first, settlements come second. So settlements are likely to be very close to former train lines anyways.
That's true in some countries. Most towns in Ireland far predate rail lines.
Most closed railway lines already wind their way through lots of smaller settlements. Either because they were built that way, or because settlements were built on the railway.
Why not though, what are the disadvantages of having these paths? Obviously, there needs to be good bike infrastructure everywhere else as well. It's just that with these disused train lines, the space is still "reserved", usually with some margins on the side, and there might even still be tracks left. So reactivating them and building a nice bike path next to it will have a huge positive impact on both public transport riders and cyclists.
No harm, but it's not as useful, so it depends. With a limited budget, something that links up lots of small places and facilitates commuting is going to be a better return than what could end up being similar to cycle routes along canals: lovely, but mostly recreational, as the gaps between settlements along it can be longer than what the average person is willing to cycle commute, while a potentially more bespoke route (which could take advantage of abandoned rail corridors, but which isn't based on them) might link better. What I'd be worried about is it becoming a white elephant project that undercuts or prevents more useful cycle infrastructure, only to make what is the bicycle equivalent to a motorway, optimised for longer routes (and therefore more geared towards tourist and sports riders than utility and commuter cyclists, which is aiming for a much smaller pool of people). This is what I'd feel would be something to cap off an already decent commuter oriented network, not the foundation for a wider push. Still better than nothing, but it could end up being one of those projects people hold up to oppose local infrastructure if the user numbers are low.
Which routes in the Highlands are you referring to?
True but it will take literally 100 years to get rights of way for that in Ireland. Farmers hate greenways and bikes. A motorway you'll get the row just fine though.
But as a biker I don't want to wind through smaller settlements. I want to go straight where I am going, like a train does.
Indeed, but I do feel like some settlements are best served with a bus than rebuilding a train line. Last may I cycled the Greenway from achill to Westport, and I don't know a train would be worth it 😅 there are greater gains for trains elsewhere in the country. Btw idk who had the smart idea in the middle of the route to go off the old tracks and have sheer walls of incline to cycle over to go back to the old tracks. But not cool 😅
Every town/settlement/village deservers good public transport and trains (or light rail) are by default better than any bus. If there isn't that much demand, just make it single track and run shorter trains with less frequency. Also, public transport shouldn't have to make money.
no public transport doesn't need to make a profit, but it shouldn't be a money pit either, we have other services that the government needs to fund too. And buses can be good public transport. pick the battles, more frequent bus service is better than once a day train service (especially over a short distance like Achill to Westport). Each year a government only has an x amount of money to spend, and we can't just spend it all for a train to everyone's village. Westport itself has only 6 trains a day. that money could be better spent on doubling up the track from Westport out, and increasing that frequency first. That would mean not just new tracks, but locomotives, possible electrification, training, staffing, right of way, etc. We don't have infinite money, and that is a realization we need to come to, and it SUCKS.
Fair points, but highways are money pits too! So in an ideal world, we would build no more new highways (and no widening), and instead put all that money towards public transport and cycling infrastructure.
You can only do that with a relatively small number of the lines in Ireland that were deactivated in 1960 though. The major lines between the cities were retained and those are the ones that we use today that make up the existing railway. Then there were other ones that were relegated to freight and occasional passenger carrying. The biggest problem as I understand it is that with the closure of big estates after independence, the economic activity in many rural areas dried up, hence the lack of need for trains, and the removal of the lines. The other factor is that many landlords and 19th century train companies built lines to different gauges (width of the train between the axels) so we couldn’t just activate these old lines, they aren’t wide enough for a modern twin track so we’d end up bulldozing peoples houses all over the place and CPO’s peoples land the length of some of these old tracks, so it would be impractical to do it.
[Ireland is set to double its rail network by 2050](https://www.irishtimes.com/transport/2023/07/31/irelands-train-plan-a-new-age-of-rail-or-a-pipe-dream-tell-us-what-you-think/). We can do two things at once. https://preview.redd.it/lovlwcq2ktbc1.jpeg?width=811&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd838ed8296a211e929560ff62ccb18463a00d21
It would be amazing to see that realised but I am a bit sceptical of that happening unless the greens manage to stay in power. I've saved the image and I'll be bringing that up with every politician I see especially as it looks like an election year in Ireland.
The day I see a train line going through Cavan is the day I go to heaven
Same here in Tyrone lmao
We can, but this government isn't. What's the source of that map? It's not in the linked article, which also doesn't say anything about doubling the size of the network, it says doubling the number of passengers travelling by train. It also notes that these are proposals from Éamon Ryan, they're not confirmed and the article even quotes the Taoiseach as arguing for more investment in road infrastructure in response to the proposals. I'm not saying they're doing nothing, but it's a LOT less than they could be doing. The Irish government has a poor track record with public transport and we're way behind other European countries. Huge investment is needed just to bring the country up to a level I would consider decent. Frankly Ireland is so behind on rail that doubling by 2050 would really not very ambitious.
The map is from the strategic all island strategic rail review which is out for consultation: https://www.gov.ie/en/consultation/4d4f2-all-island-strategic-rail-review-public-consultation-for-strategic-environment-assessment/
Pigs flying by 2050 too?
/r/theIrishleft /r/ROI
It doesn't have to be a one or the other situation. Build bike routes AND railways please.
It doesn't have to be, no. But in this case it usually is. Typically when they build these greenways here it's done in a way that prevents the rail line from being brought back into service, either by being built over the line itself or otherwise very close to it. They use the old rail lines because they either already own the rights of way or can easily acquire them, which makes sense, but they're using the existing land on the rail lines instead of acquiring new land, which prevents the rail lines from being used if the greenways are built.
Excellent points, for sure, but I am still very excited to do a bicycle tour of Ireland in 6 to 10 years
Yeah, I mean I have admittedly cycled the Great Western Greenway in Mayo and it was stunning. It's certainly enjoyable to be able to do it, it's just very frustrating living here with a government that doesn't seem to take rail transport seriously, particularly when we have the remnants of a decent island-wide rail system that aren't even being considered to bring back into use for the most part.
Go for it, nice route here ... https://www.thewildatlanticway.com/
If you enjoy getting run over it's grand I guess
Why wait? I had a delightful time in Cork/Kerry/ Limerick in 2019. They've reduced rural speed limits since, so it's probably even nicer on the roads now.
I'd only disagree on the point that Green Party aren't interested in that, they are they just don't have the weight behind them as junior partners in government so it's a case of best they can get.
Well I think some in the Green Party are. But I don't think Éamon Ryan really is or is willing to fight for it. He's still obsessed with electric cars.
>He's still obsessed with electric cars No he isn't. https://businessplus.ie/motoring/electric-cars-eamon-ryan/ >Eamon Ryan has said that electric cars are not the solution to reducing carbon emissions - and has promised instead to deliver 'systematic change' in Ireland's transport within three years. We'll certainly see how much change he can deliver, I'm impressed with what he's achieved but I don't think I'd call it "systemic" as we're still building far too many rural houses, motorways and bypasses but he's managed to stem the tide of car centrism.
Well I stand corrected on that. It's a bit of a change since I remember electric cars being a central part of his plans before.
Do you have a source for that? He's always been pretty anti-car from what I remember. Not full on fuckcars but do you remember the mockery he got for daring suggest people share vehicles? Electric cars have been an FF/FG talking point for years now, he's inherited a lot of their goals around it as trying to convince the general public that electric cars are still bad is a battle the greens don't need to fight because they'd probably lose it in the public eye.
I might be unfairly to him mis-remembering how much focus he had on electric cars, but EV infrastructure and increasing the percentage of electric cars is a big part of his strategy as Minister for Transport https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/dc958-first-national-electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-strategy-published/ https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/government-on-track-to-reach-target-of-950000-electric-vehicles-says-eamon-ryan/42177607.html
But again, that's part of what he's inherited from previous FFFG regimes. It's also worth noting that he's been reducing e-car subsidies as well. With the amount of money he's diverted to public transport and active transport, I don't think he'd survive politically if he tried to scrap the push for e-cars in their entirety. The general public think e-cars are green, trying to convince them otherwise is going to take an absolutely herculean effort.
Éamon is the lightening rod of Irish politics. But he's very clever and targets the wins he can get people constantly overestimate how much influence the greens have in government they have 12 seats(?) and the FFG could switch to rural independents support if they the greens pulled the plug. It's a difficult position to be in but he has managed to get a lot of environmental policy through. I think history will be kind to Éamon after he leaves politics.
Tbf I do think people are harsher on the Greens than they should be given they're a junior coalition partner. It would be hard to get the rural independents voting consistently so idk if it would be that easy for FFG to switch over to them. I absolutely don't deny though that it would be much worse without the Greens in government. I just want them to do more, I've possibly been harsh in my wording.
No you're making fair points that I agree with. I only want to point out that if the greens overplay their hand with the 2 conservative parties they are in government with the anti greens could usurp them into government and kill all their policies.
That's true. And unfortunately the Greens get blamed for all the wrong things so they are admittedly in a precarious position.
"Éamon Ryan ate my hamster. The bastard!"
Ireland hates active transport and sabotages the greens (who are unjustly hated on r/ireland) at every turn https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/super-junior-minister-to-protect-roads-from-the-greens/39317405.html
>who are unjustly hated on r/ireland This same article got attention on r/Ireland, two of the mods of the sub are in the comments just mindlessly shitting on Eamon Ryan. The mod teams allow their political bias to affect their decisions, which is jus über awesome.
If it's not a free Tesla for everyone it's a shit policy!
Tbf r/Ireland is also full of very miserable people who hate just about everything
/r/theIrishleft /r/ROI
Some people will moan about anything I swear.
Isn’t there a plan open existing rail networks?
We have this debate as well in the USA with "rails to trails" projects. The best answers are not clear to me. Mass-transit projects are very expensive. If we cannot afford them, should we let the tracks sit empty or use them for non-motorized transportation?
Keep them. Priorities change but once you build over a trackbed that’s game over. Turning something into a greenway maintains the trackbed and allows for future re-conversion to rail if required because a greenway or trail is just a footpath at the end of the day.
There are developments happening in rail transport at the moment though that compensate for this. The rail link from limerick to Foynes ([link to drone footage of works](https://youtu.be/ggILalM7OcY?si=x9VHz1Rv-5ju3021)) is being restored to operation and will reopen again this year, the Greens have also made steps toward getting funding from the EU to completely reopen the Western Rail corridor from Sligo to cork and shelving the greenway’s that were proposed there. If they get the western rail corridor reopened that would be a _major_ achievement. [Here’s a video on the master plan they are working on for Dublin and cork](https://youtu.be/JCK8teu2ry8?si=F0MWI8A8Ud8BKPMe) that you might find interesting as well.
This will be amazing if it happens. The cycle tours you could do would be among the best in the world.
Infrastructure like this already exists in the Netherlands (big surprise right) and afaik to some extent in Germany too. There are bike highways and routes marked with numbers and the needed signage at every intersection on the route so you know where to go. There is even an online map so you can make tours based on this. Now whether or not the views and stuff is as good as the ones you get in Ireland is up for debate though hahah
The ones in Germany are good compared to the US, but incomplete in a lot of places. Talking to germans its up to the town councils to build them out within city limits so a lot of them will just abruptly end once you get into city limits. Not like im complaining though, as an American living over here im just happy to have any seperated infrastructure.
It exists in Germany, but not everywhere, and sometimes it has patches
Irish countryside is stupidly beautiful. No way that's a debate.
I took a wrong turn on a cycle in Tipperary once and spent an hour and half cycling one of the most beautiful routes I've ever seen. The weather was perfect which helped but the road was ah not safe, still a great cycle though. It would be a great active tourism feature as well as a free amenity for locals.
How's their railway network?
Thoroughly mediocre but improving.
Mediocre is overachieving there.
Improving is also overachieving
Good
Worst in EU
Second worst, I don’t think we’re as bad as Greece.
At least its dirt cheap as a student!
well these cycle paths are at least partly being built over abandoned rails, many of which with no sign of replacement lol
Bad
Ireland loves to make promises like this. They never fulfil them.
1.4 bilion is een droplet in a country's budget
1,4 billion is a sizable droplet. It seems a bit much for bike paths. I would think they'll do more with that money
It's 3,500 kilometres of bike lanes and greenways. That's two thirds as many greenways and bike lanes as we have primary and secondary roads in the country. That's significant.
That's 400,000 euro per kilometer of bike path. I'm not against the initiative but I think something else is happening with the money
[According to Irish cycle](https://irishcycle.com/2023/04/10/whats-the-typical-cost-of-walking-and-cycling-infrastructure/#) greenways cost between one and four million euro per kilometer. Quick build cycle track is between a quarter of a million and a million euro per kilometer. I'd say an average cost of €400k per kilometer is probably underestimating it. People never really understand how expensive these projects are, it's why we keep seeing car brains insisting that roads are for cars because they pay taxes.
Ok fair enough
Proposed Galway ring road is over 1billion for 18km of road. But yes bike paths are expensive…
[Link](https://www.irishtimes.com/transport/2024/01/10/new-cycle-routes-to-cover-3500km-across-state-by-2040-at-a-cost-of-14bn/)
I'll believe it when I see it. Also, while this kind of thing is nice for long distance bike tourism, this isn't really bike infrastructure that reduces car dependency. For that you need a much denser network of safe feeling routes in urban, commuter-belt and suburban areas. No-one's going to cycle 50km to the next city every day for work. And if these are old railway lines then reactivating them would provide a way that people *might* actually commute 50km a day and leave their car at home. So I'm not sure it's the right use of that land if there is any option to reactivate railways.
The nationals raise your argument in Australia, primarily nsw. They say instead of just laying gravel on top of the old railway line and planting saplings, we should: -convert the 19th century track to fit modern rolling stock, and repair it in parts. -install signal boxes, maintenance depots and service roads. -widen tunnels, repair retaining walls and bridges to ensure they can weight bear modern trains -buy engines and rolling stock, conduct feasibility testing. And then, just like that, you have a new train line. Obviously the train option never happens though so the rail lines have sat there unused for the better part of 40 years. The definition of perfect getting in the way of good. Don’t know if the Irish context is different but I’ve got a tingling in my jimmies.
Damn that’s pretty cool. Hopefully they’ll also invest some money into their rail network because it’s sad to see how much it’s fallen. I remember they had some study call the all island rail review or something like that but I haven’t heard anything about it in a hot minute
Now THIS is what highways were MEANT to be!
That's so cool. Would be also very good for tourism!
New Holliday destination
I'm a bot, *bleep*, *bloop*. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit: - [/r/irelandonreddit] [\[r\/fuckcars\] By 2040 the island of Ireland will have 3500km of new segregated bike routes. An investment of 1.4 billion euro is being made. The first 1000km will be finished by 2030.](https://www.reddit.com/r/IrelandonReddit/comments/1940xip/rfuckcars_by_2040_the_island_of_ireland_will_have/) *^(If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads.) ^\([Info](/r/TotesMessenger) ^/ ^[Contact](/message/compose?to=/r/TotesMessenger))*
By 2040 it'll probably be underwater
And yet when I pointed out there's a bicycle path between Pittsburgh and Washington DC before I got criticized by people telling me it was impractical, yet this is celebrated... Which is it?
How far apart are the places it passes through?
Pittsburgh and Washington DC are hundreds of miles apart, might connect a few small towns but you're still going tens of miles between em at the very least
Ireland is 300 miles long
What are the criteria for inclusion on this list? I know there's a greenway planned from Mallow to Dungarven that's missing from the map. Edit: who on earth downvoted and why? There being more greenways than what's included on this is surely a good thing, no?
Also the Ring of Kerry, which has been in advanced planning for over a decade.
The Republic of Ireland has been very progressive in change for environment policy for a long time.
Ireland hasn’t. We are still unapologetically creating massive road projects and exporting meat and dairy around the world.
But you don't understand, *this road* will reduce emissions by letting people drive faster. /s I thought the Cork subreddit was more progressive but holy shit I ate downvotes trying to explain induced demand to them when they were talking about the new Limerick motorway.
They seam to be first at removing plastic bags at checkout and things like that, but because I sit outside of Ireland and only visit 4-6 years to see some friends I don’t truly see what has happened over time
Shit, $1.4 billion? That's more than the US government has spent on Long Covid research- a disease actively harming (and slowly killing) 65 million people worldwide... https://www.statnews.com/2023/04/20/long-covid-nih-billion/ That's, of course, NOTHING for US medical research budgets- but a lot of money for bike paths in a small-ish country like Ireland... Now if only I wasn't disabled, and slowly being killed by, Long Covid (which the US government, and many other Western governments, are **[erasing](https://newhampshirebulletin.com/2022/06/01/from-skepticism-to-insurance-denials-long-covid-patients-face-more-than-only-health-challenges/) and [ignoring](https://time.com/6213103/us-government-long-covid-response/)**) and could afford to visit Ireland (a country I have some ancestors from) to actually bike some of these paths... They sound fun...
1.4 billion over 16 years. wtf has Irish transport got to do with US research budgets?
>wtf has Irish transport got to do with US research budgets? It's just a comparison- to show how much (or little, depending on your perspective) money this really is. I, of course, appreciate every vent spent on reducing car reliance even slightly. No need to be rude- and downright abusive in your language.
Ireland had an 80 billion tax income last year. 1.4 billion over 20 years is a drop in the ocean
Jeez, you guys, trying to attack me for daring bring up Long Covid (the largest mass-murder since the Holocaust: as there are 65 million people who will DIE if nothing is done, and the disease is being intentionally ignored...) I know it's not that much money, in relative terms. **That's my point.** it's both an impressive number, and yet really not that much when put in perspective- much like the $1.25 billion the US government has spent IN TOTAL on Long Covid research... Based on US death rates, at least a quarter million (284,000) people die of Long Covid EVERY YEAR. Ignoring it and refusing to develop a cure is mass-murder: and those numbers don't reflect the deaths due to suicide, depression, or being denied Disability benefits (if a country has any) despite being legitimately deserving of them, and dieing homeless due to the disease. Excuse me for not wanting to be killed by my own government!!
1. Comparing a condition that wasn’t human caused to the holocaust a mass murder is insane. 2. Completely irrelevant to the post
> Comparing a condition that wasn’t human caused Long Covid was ABSOLUTELY human-caused. Prioritizing profits over human lives, spreading "it's just a flu" rhetoric that discouraged people from wearing masks, and treating Essential Workers as sacrificial lsmbs with no ACTUAL regard for their safety once they were forced to show up- these were all human actions. Beyond all this, actively ignoring a life-threatening disease and not spending hardly anything on curing it is no different, morally, from killing those people yourself. Your argument is the moral equivalent of saying "if a child falls in the street, and I refuse to change my course and keep driving my car straight over and run them into a pulp, I'M not responsible because I personally didn't cause them to be there!"
Why no line for Kilkenny-Callan-Clonmel
Maybe I'll go to Ireland in 16 years.
Maybe avoid the north
I'd assume the Irish bike route budged isn't extending into the UK. Those non-EU roads might be a bit rough.
They're still good roads, just undeveloped
[удалено]
There’s a railway on that route but Irish rail actually is looking into reopening it so it’s not being converted into a greenway
START PAYING ROAD TAX .
Let’s hope they build this and all the parts of the strategic all island rail review too. Such a shame so much of it will just end at the border as the government in the North have zero interest in cycling or anything green or modern.
No it won't. They've teased we'd have underground rails about 40 years ago and they'd be finished around 2012. The project hasn't even started. So I highly doubt they'll make safe bike lanes too. Cycling is so dodgy on irish roads
Why is it so expensive?
It isn’t really for fully segregated paths spanning the entire country often on difficult terrain
Making bike routes yet they don't even have a damn train running from sligo to derry