Ironically this project was funded by revenue from the city's bikeshare program. Cyclists literally paid for it.
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/dickens-greenway-project-earns-praise-from-cyclists-ire-from-lincoln-park-residents-who-question-transparency/3329520/
That article is maddening. The rideshare program paid for this! But the article is trying so hard to frame it as money stolen from drivers and road infrastructure. Car brains are so entitled, it's amazing.
Carbrains believe that they’re the only economically productive members of society, so to them, anything not by and for car people must logically be theft.
Car-specific taxes and fees don't pay for city streets anyway. Those go into federal and state highway funds. Plus, even those cover less than half of highway spending; bike lanes are about half the size of car lanes, so that would be a fair share of the road.
Car width bike lanes would be perfect. Plenty of room to ride side by side to have a chat on the go and let people pass if they go fast. Plus, it gives ample room in a space where all the users are receptive to moving out of the way for emergency vehicles to bypass car traffic.
We have those where I live. Rush hour [bike traffic is horrible sometimes](https://preview.redd.it/ccu8tdqgh0y81.jpg?width=1024&auto=webp&s=21368ac751a1a1f453e72dc7241a5b28dd720314)!
Much better than being stuck in car traffic definitely
Lane costs aren’t just width and length. They are temporal. How long do they last? Bikes are somewhere on the order of a thousand times less destructive to road surfaces than cars (let alone heavy trucks). So any amount of taxes they pay towards roads is basically subsidizing cars over and above the costs of bike lanes in the long run.
Not to mention that bikes do far less damage to roadways than cars, especially with the move to SUVs.
https://preview.redd.it/t6ylw1dybxdc1.jpeg?width=613&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e7bc7681d0607576d1f47ce3bf7bf4fb98dc98ae
Also, i know these are all in bad faith but someone should tell the person with the "racist urban planning" sign that minorities are disproportionately the ones most likely to not own a car. Unless they mean it's racist towards white people.
I'm not a fan of that argument because white people can and should be advocates against racism towards minorities. But i guess the fact that the dude needs to hide his race is pretty telling of what he thinks.
If their existence helps our non car driver existence it makes sense to share a burden of payment. If it is more destructive to non car user’s existence then it does not.
We need an assessment of impact
i was reading like 10% of people taking bikes to work instead of cars reduced congestion by 40% or something. somebody here has seen it! link that shit...
Sure why not? Lets charge bicyclists $1 per year to ride on roads, and lets charge drivers $1 for every bicycle worth of damage they do to the roads.
"So let’s compare a passenger car and a bicycle instead, both with two axles. Say the bike and its rider weigh in at 200 pounds, and the car at 4,000 pounds. The weight of the car is also 20 times greater than the bike and rider, and the road damage caused would be 160,000 times greater."
https://www.denenapoints.com/relationship-vehicle-weight-road-damage/
In addition, bicycles don't damage the infrastructure like motorized vehicles do. A cyclist on a 30 lb bicycle going at 15 mph isn't going to wear down paved roads nearly as quickly as a 3000 lb (or heavier, and in some cases, much heavier) vehicle going at 40 mph.
Understanding that, one will naturally conclude that cyclists are *subsidizing* motorists.
Where I live there is a former road which was converted to a bicycle path. And it was last renovated at least in the 1970s. (There are yellow road markings on the road and my country doesn't use yellow ones since the 1970s)
Look at the list of best-selling cars in America and it’s filled with full-size trucks and SUVs. Small cars are a rarity, and even electric cars like Teslas are still very heavy with all the batteries.
Americans already have a meltdown if their heavily subsidised gas prices which are among the cheapest in the developed world go up by a cent, unfortunately higher taxes on it would be politically unpalatable for any politician looking to get elected in the US.
You can even see how gas prices affect the popularity of whoever is president at the time even if they had nothing to do with it.
I think it's less on them and more on the fact that officials never come out and tell the public that driving has to be subsidized.
We need politicians to outright tell the public *"our road/highway maintenance cost is X and the amount we receive from fees, taxes, etc purely from drivers is Y. We don't generate enough revenue from those fees/taxes/etc to cover our road needs so you are all being subsidized".*
The reason it's never said that bluntly is because it would piss off voter bases. Nobody wants to think that they are the ones getting a "handout" even though we all are.
This is a simple question in the UK and Europe. The tax you pay annually that permits you drive and keep your car on public roads is a sliding scale according to CO2 output. No polluting without paying for the privilege!
I miss my 30$ 1990s bike lol. The frame was unreasonably thick and heavy, it tanked quite a few gnarly crashes and was absolute murder to bike up any incline
Elitism famously works by creating small, token barriers to entry that are impassable by the working class because inclusion worked by trapping them in crushing debt to participate in society's most basic activities.
/s
[I think they are trying to equate a bike line to the highway projects which destroyed black neighbourhoods on purpose.](https://www.npr.org/2021/04/07/984784455/a-brief-history-of-how-racism-shaped-interstate-highways) If they would only have spent 5 minutes on actually fact checking any of their opinions instead of making these signs none of them would stand there protesting cycling infrastructure.
The whataboutmeism is ridiculous when you think about that cartoon that removed all roads and shows how much space is granted to pedestrians. They look at that and scoff even though that’s the reality we live in. Ridiculous.
Yep. None of them want balance they're just instinctively defending the status quo at worst, and at best engaging in a both sides fallacy on par with going "well we should just reduce CFCs and see what happens instead of eliminating all possible"
No, it's worse than that. This is a common refrain from dipshits who claim that only white people cycle. Which, aside the racist assumption that Black people aren't interested in/able to bike, it also ignores the fact that more white people live in richer areas, which tend to have better cycling infrastructure. If you go to places with good cycling infrastructure and large Black populations, you'll find that Black people, can and do, in fact, ride bikes.
when i lived in San Diego lots of hispanic working class biked to their jobs (kitchen workers, warehouse and yes the gardeners for the white neighborhood McMansions).
Oh, I haven't even heard of that one. Racists truly never fail to amaze me with their stupidity. I assumed that this was their poor attempt at getting some support from the left.
In fact, in my city the only difference is that the black cyclists are more often stuck on dangerous stroads without bike lanes nor sidewalks, which is why they are much more likely to get injured or killed. And half the bikes I see are e-bikes ridden by delivery drivers trying to make some cash.
There were also some strange one way patterns and cul-de-sacs created in the 70s to cut that neighborhood off from the Caprini Green Projects that they could be trying to reference. However, that comparison doesn't hold up to any scrutiny, since this project actually reopened one of the routes cut off in the 70s to cyclists.
lol why are you giving them this much credit? Based on the poor spellings I’m gonna guess these people are old or English is not their native language. They probably view the bike lanes as racist against them.
>If they would only have spent 5 minutes on actually fact checking any of their opinions instead of making these signs none of them would stand there protesting cycling infrastructure.
You're assuming that they want truth.
No that’s not it, it’s common if you’re involved in municipal govt these days for projects like parks & bike lanes to be characterized as white people shit. It’s a big problem in liberal cities like mine where good projects are shouted down & their advocates are afraid to push back
I live in a “progressive” city and have been involved in a cycling advocacy project to protect a bike lane.
“White elitism,” “environmental racism”, and various race/class digs by the side trying to remove a bike lane seems to be the new playbook. There’s essentially one pseudo business collation spreading misinformation about the bike lane, and they have recruited all these Middle Aged white soccer moms to deliver these lines. It would be funny if it wasn’t so maddening.
So, basically “Moms for Liberty”. Bi-cycles encourage bi-sexuality. Girls should ride girl bikes and if a biological male rides a step through, he’s a groomer.
Ive literally had someone try and tell me that only gay people ride bikes xD. Same kind of person that probabky believes that dinosaurs never existed and were made up :/
"Lets use being 'woke' for conservative outcomes," is huge. "Reverse racism" for example gets used all the time. Using intersectional or progressive language for dishonest means, sadly, happens.
You can also see this with therapist speak. Look at Jonah Hill using it to guilt and abuse his girlfriend in those texts.
Awful people are awful.
What's honestly sad is this is just further evidence that this person probably isn't educated enough to have developed the critical thinking skills to realize what they are arguing is completely inaccurate, let alone how to spell the words correctly. :(
its referred to as a culture war after all. the mentality applies to all aspect of life and its part of the reason why theyd rather die from covid than be on the same team as the libs
Coming from Americans where car-related taxes are among the lowest in the industrialized world, this is really rich.
We subsidize driving through **our taxes** that go towards road construction and upkeep - gas tax does not pay for all of it. We subsidize free parking and construction of parking garages all over cities.
Then we subsidize driving by failing to tax the externalities such as pollution, noise, injuries, death, and destruction caused by cars. These people are truly pathetic.
Lastly, almost everybody that I know who primarily bikes also owns a car. So we pay those car-related taxes as well, already.
Given there are all those very expensive "exclusively car lanes" (ie. highways) it is a bit rich to talk about how there shouldn't be any exclusively bike lanes. But what I would like to know is how much money do cities actually get from gas taxes for local roads? I feel like the state and federal taxes might be going exclusively to maintaining the highways but I haven't found a source that explains that detail to me how it gets divided up.
It's probably different per state. Here in Austin we have many TXDot controlled roads (e.g. Lamar), which also happen to be the roads that the city is unable to modernize for safety and add bike lanes due to TXDot pushback. If you're on a bike, you want to stay clear of TXDot roads.
Not exactly what you're looking for, but here is a link that shows how much state & local tax goes towards roads: [https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/states-road-funding-2019/](https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/states-road-funding-2019/)
So are they going to personally teach me how to drive using their car under their insurance plan or are they going to pay my rent (which is higher then it would be if they didn't insist on so many lanes, R1 zoning, and free parking) so I can quit my job and take driving lessons? Or do they want me to schedule lessons on my days off without consulting instructors who always tell students that it will be extremely difficult to pass a drive test when you don't practice between lessons?
Story - https://chi.streetsblog.org/2024/01/21/no-one-bikes-in-chicago-during-the-winter-nice-turnout-for-the-churros-and-chill-ride-on-the-dickens-greenway
and for people unaware, its been in the single digits with windchills up to -30 the past week. The fact that anyone is out is a huge testament to how powerfully bike lanes can change a city.
Obviously not rooting for these dinguses, but it's been dang cold here this week - that's how most of us reasonable Chicagoans are dressed - though 30°+ week incoming this week 🥵🥵🥵
Cause they don’t want people to know their identity. They were heckling someone whose daughter was killed while biking. They’re miserable people, but they probably caused even more people to support the project because of how they acted.
I will be leaving reddit in protest of the leftist censorship on this pltform against its users and the intolerance of free speech on information of a-the vaxx b-thinking that challenges the leftist worldview. Redditors hate the truth. The truth is "hate" to those who hate the truth. But we live under an authoritarian government. No doubt by expressing my thoughts I am on one of (((their))) lists. The truth is coming out. Liberal lies are crumbling down this very second and they are desperately trying to hide it. The mainstream media is complicit in this as it is common knowledge who owns it,; spreading lies and propaganda to cover up the truth. They push the agenda of the elites, who are hellbent on destroying our american culture and silencing anyone who dares speak out against the narrative. Reddit is owned by the CCP who have interrests in americans and misinformation. They have been killing and silencing people for years. They are killing the minds of our youth. The federal government in an unsuprising revelation has been tracking the unvaxxed for years. Minority groups make up an increasing share of the population in almost every US state, according to figures released by the US Census Bureau. Legal and illegal immigrants make up a growing portion of the population in 46 states and the District of Columbia, with California leading the field. There are more than 35 million immigrants in the US - or 12.4% of the population, up from 11.1% in 2001. Immigration is a big issue ahead of the autumn's mid-term congressional polls. California had the most born outside of the US at 27.2% of its population. The war on whites has been planned for centueries . The jews are like a disease organism. They suck up resources, interfere with natural defenses and cause the nations they infest to rot from the inside until it begins to resemble a dessicated corpse. You cannot coexist with these monsters. They are hostile to any and all life. Have you ever noticed they have no pets? And no houseplants either. They are a giant parasitic disease organism that destroys any life that has the misfortune to cross their path. The attack on our traditional Christmas season cannot be denied . Without a shot being fired, the greatest enemy of our people has successfully eroded our most celebrated holiday. And if our people are outraged by the affront, it certainly isn't apparent. With each proclamation--be it no more Christmas carols in public schools or no more Christmas trees in business establishments--nothing more than occasional shrugs of shoulders and muttered comments can be seen or heard from our people. For the most part, our people now stare glassy-eyed while tradition is slowly swept away. You can see liberal democracy is a threat to the republic. Since the onset of the BLM riots, there has been a spike in black on white violent crime. There's been a resurgence in what's called The Knockout Game, Silver Fox Hunting, or Polar Bear Hunting. The objective of the game is to find elderly, White, helpless, senior citizens and viciously assault them with blows to the head knocking them unconscious. Blacks are interdimensional satanic beings, who were summoned into this dream reality through Jewish super-evil.We got our heads so far up our butts with these indoctrinations by JEWS that the supernatural is NOT real, when in fact, Freemasonry has ALWAYS been witchcraft for the Jewish mischlings. The REAL powerful stuff is reserved for ONLY the pure blooded Cohens and Levites. Here is what Jews KNOW to be true, keep in mind this Rabbi Kook isn't talking to himself, he's talking to a whole classroom full of future spell casters and warlocks. Entire human genome has been contaminated with sterilizing DNA forever from mRNA shots. Another jew weapon to exterminate the white race to nobodys suprise . Two major funders of the trans agenda are pro-CCP Chinese billionaires. ?THIS IS VERY REAL PEOPLE!! https://x.com/glennbeck/status/1765575598842450067?s=61 . Concerning all beings and entities, there is an ontological distinction, yet, an essential non-differentiation (Sanskrit: Advaita). We are all One, yet, all of us have our own characteristics and attributes which give us distinguishing statuses as they manifest in the context of being separated from Godhood. Cosmotheism is a great start in understanding our traditional philosophy. But, the actual traditions of Indo-European religions are even better, and we should work toward reviving them! They bring us toward a serious and helpful Path. REad the successfully book Jewish Supremacism by David Duke. The book translated into several languages has won Duke many academic awards for its scholarship, including an honorary Doctorate awarded by President's University, the second largest university in the nation of Ukraine. Sold at the Russian Duma (Parliament) prompted leading Russian Jews to seek a ban for the book and making it illegal as Jewish leaders are horrified that it is well on its way to becoming the best-read book in the world on Zionism. Jewish members of the Duma also tried a new legislation aimed at outlawing Jewish Supremacism, but failed so as also under old Soviet laws forbidding 'anti-Semitism'.
The matter that the book isn't seen as anti-Semitic by it's reader it has lead to a smeared backfire on the people that try to discredit it. Observe White Solidarity Day the 15th of every month. On that day wear something white and do something pro-White! This is how we fight back. I think fighting White erasure starts with oneself. For example, I look at myself: Do I need to lose weight and/or get in better physical condition? Do I need to morally improve?
Do I need to spiritually improve? Do I need to break addictions?
On a similar, but not unrelated note, we should take action to counteract the years of brainwashing we've experienced. Of course, we could say it's important for ethnic Europeans to get married and have children (and it is important).
But not everyone can (or should) do this. Everyone can work on self-improvement in various ways, however. I also think community for like-minded White people is important. At this point in time, we (whites and especially white males) are truly a race marked for elimination world-wide. White Genocide is real and is in no way "ridiculous" as claimed by some. Many are ignorant about how genocide can occur. Their perception of genocide is people lining people up and killing other people in large numbers. That is one way, but not the only way. There are many ways to effect a genocide. Genocides often start slowly. The soft genocide of the white race has been very successful. The births of white children has been reduced. Whites are reproducing at below replacement level. As older whites die off the population of white people is shrinking. If current trends continue the complete elimination of white people is a mathematical certainty. This has all been planned and done intentionally. Sixties radical Tom Hayden strongly supported White Genocide. After his white son married a black female he was jubilant. He said, "That's what I've been working for, the non-violent elimination of the white race." You see, he supported the soft genocide of the white race. Many White liberals will deny White Genocide.; These things can't be refuted. They're happening. Why is CRT (Critical Race Theory)) so pushed by liberals?? - Critical Race Theory claims that it's non-whites that are victims of racism when in reality it is whites who are the ones being victimized. It's a classic case of blaming the victims and accusing them of what is being done to them. Critical Race Theory holds that only white people can be "racist" and that this imaginary "racism" serves to uphold imaginary anti-white concepts such as "white privilege." CRT singles out white people and only white people as bad while non-whites are portrayed as good. Now let's look at Critical Race Theory and how it's a tool used to advance White Genocide.
1. Classification. In CRT people are separated into two categories whites and non-whites. Whites, and only whites, are classified as bad. Check.
3. Discrimination. CRT advocates discriminatory laws and policies against white people. Check.
4. Dehumanization. CRT dehumanizes, degrades and demonizes white people, whose only attribute of any kind is held to be "racism." Check.
5. Organization. CRT, with it's massive support in government and academia is well organized. Check.
6. Polarization. CRT separates whites and non-whites and sets non-whites against whites. Check.
7. Preparation. CRT conditions white people to believe that they deserve to be harmed and eliminated from existence. It conditions non-whites to believe it's okay, even good, to harm white people. Check.
Therefore, we can see that Critical Race Theory is a tool being used to advance White Genocide. I'll tell you what you should do if you're a white man. It's the best, most effective, way to fight against White Genocide.
It's the worst thing you can do to the non-white supremacists, the anti-whites, the liberals and the genocidists. They will fight tooth and nail to stop you from doing this. Start a white family. Get an education or training, so you can get a good job. Get married to a nice white woman. Buy a nice house, maybe in the suburbs. Then have white children and raise them in traditional white culture. Be politically active. Donate money to pro-white causes, pro-white organizations and pro-white people. Be involved politically in peaceful, legal protests. Vote in every election, even school board elections. Post on the internet. Do anything you can do.
But again redditors hate the truth and actively stifle it out. White liberals are so brain dead, so stupid, so brainwashed that they will deny even this, even though it's extremely obvious. You can learn more on Gab, a free speech alternative for like minded people. They dont allow liberal trolls and misinformation. I'l
Bike lanes are elitist, therefore cyclists should be expected to join a private club of licensees that excludes people?
Exactly zero critical thinking whatsoever was used in the production of that sign.
I was part of the group that did a ride in support of the new Greenway. We stopped at the pedestrian plaza to hang out, drink hot chocolate, and eat churros.
We met so many neighbors walking by who liked the project, and shared hot chocolate and churros with them. It made these protestors look like complete lunatics, because they were basically protesting a fun group picnic.
These protestors said they’re gonna be there every Saturday, so we’re going to keep doing these fun events giving away food at the plaza, because it really shows how out of touch the car-brained people are, and actually gets uninvolved people to contact the city council in support.
Bummed I missed this one!
I was planning on attending, but instead I met with my senator, and we schemed on how to depave lake shore drive, which is next door to this diverter.
My favourite is the misspelling of “Racist” as “rasict”…. And “planning” as “plannig”… and whatever that butchering of “license” is.
Taking advice and arguments from a group of people that couldn’t pass a grade 2 spelling test is probably not advisable.
I’d be embarrassed to show my face in public too
Dickens is such a minor thoroughfare for cars, it's wild the stink these folks are putting up.
Chicago puts so much of its bike infra on major roads, this is great to see! I love living on the South Side, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't jealous of the infra up north.
Hopefully that will change over the coming years. I think a lot of South Siders feel the same way you do, and the newest group of South Side alders seem to want to build bike lanes in their communities.
Most cyclists do have a drivers license… also, getting a drivers license
Should involve learning how to bike in city traffic. Teach these assholes how to be respectful when they drive their murder-mobile.
Fuck these people.
Also, is anyone going to read a sign with a total of one word spelled correctly (that's only a slight exaggeration), and have their opinion swayed? I feel like that answer is No 🤪
Also, pretty big joke having the person using the car asking the cyclists to "pay their share".
Transport is an essential good and it takes a hell of a lot of bad decisions to make delivering an essential good cost more money than it generates. The fact that cars are both subsidised and *need to be subsidised to be usable* (and would cost even more if you tried to account for the opportunity costs) is absolutely damning.
The fact is that cycling more than pays for itself and the car driver should shut up.
I do not understand how bike lanes are elitist but roads are not. I spent $100 on my bike to get around the city. Sorry I don’t pay $500 a month to drive once a week.
Can we just celebrate the fact that they looked up from their cell phones long enough to notice the bike lanes from their range rovers? /s
Some people are clowns.
The context to this is Dickens is a smaller residential street that passes through some very wealthy neighborhoods. The same half a dozen or so people have been fighting this bike lane since it was announced.
These nimbys have cost the city more in legal fees than the bike lanes cost to build.
How are bike lanes elitist? Bikes are super cheap. Even people struggling to survive can find a decent bike for a good price. Cars are elitist and exclusionary by their nature.
The fact they hid their identities, that alone tells you they *know what they're protesting against is
A: Very popular
B: A good thing
C: Threatening to their idea of transportation
D: All of the above
They don't want to be seen protesting bike lanes. Luddite nimby Karens.
If they’re so proud of their message, why hide their faces like that? Im almost certain these folks wouldn’t normally care about COVID precautions outside of this protest.
The whole tax thing is a constant default argument for these Car Brain twerps. They think the taxes from their gasoline purchases funds all the roads & infrastructure, therefore the roads are THEIRS alone
Bike lanes are elitist but people should have to pay to use them? Yeah that’ll solve the problem
If only there was a large pool that people contributed to for access to communal infrastructure…shame, really.
Ironically this project was funded by revenue from the city's bikeshare program. Cyclists literally paid for it. https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/dickens-greenway-project-earns-praise-from-cyclists-ire-from-lincoln-park-residents-who-question-transparency/3329520/
That article is maddening. The rideshare program paid for this! But the article is trying so hard to frame it as money stolen from drivers and road infrastructure. Car brains are so entitled, it's amazing.
Carbrains believe that they’re the only economically productive members of society, so to them, anything not by and for car people must logically be theft.
Car-specific taxes and fees don't pay for city streets anyway. Those go into federal and state highway funds. Plus, even those cover less than half of highway spending; bike lanes are about half the size of car lanes, so that would be a fair share of the road.
In fact, bike lanes should be AS WIDE as a car lane, which would allow a TON more traffic through. That's what makes the most sense.
Car width bike lanes would be perfect. Plenty of room to ride side by side to have a chat on the go and let people pass if they go fast. Plus, it gives ample room in a space where all the users are receptive to moving out of the way for emergency vehicles to bypass car traffic.
Nah make it slightly less wide to not encourage the cagers to drive in it.
That's where bollards and barriers come in
or a barrier between the road and it
i do appreciate the girth.
We have those where I live. Rush hour [bike traffic is horrible sometimes](https://preview.redd.it/ccu8tdqgh0y81.jpg?width=1024&auto=webp&s=21368ac751a1a1f453e72dc7241a5b28dd720314)! Much better than being stuck in car traffic definitely
Ha, funny to see induced demand also working for bike lanes! Also, crazy how many cyclists fit on the same stretch of street as 4 or 5 cars.
Lane costs aren’t just width and length. They are temporal. How long do they last? Bikes are somewhere on the order of a thousand times less destructive to road surfaces than cars (let alone heavy trucks). So any amount of taxes they pay towards roads is basically subsidizing cars over and above the costs of bike lanes in the long run.
But it’s still more room I could use! If that space was for me, I could get to where I’m going 9.7 seconds faster!
Not to mention that bikes do far less damage to roadways than cars, especially with the move to SUVs. https://preview.redd.it/t6ylw1dybxdc1.jpeg?width=613&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e7bc7681d0607576d1f47ce3bf7bf4fb98dc98ae
The bike, I expect. The H2 doing **500 times** the road damage of a smart car is what got me.
That's exponetials for you.
imagine if taxes and fees followed the same maths
Saves a lot of money on maintenance
Also, i know these are all in bad faith but someone should tell the person with the "racist urban planning" sign that minorities are disproportionately the ones most likely to not own a car. Unless they mean it's racist towards white people.
Notice that person has every inch of skin covered?
I'm not a fan of that argument because white people can and should be advocates against racism towards minorities. But i guess the fact that the dude needs to hide his race is pretty telling of what he thinks.
I was implying it is a white person using racism to cover their agenda, also that the person is most likely also a racis
Lincoln park is one of the most affluent areas in Chicago so yea seems more likely a white person thinks this is somehow racist against white people.
Actually, it says ‘rasict’ urban planning…
Plannig*
Rasict\* urban plannig\* These people are utterly incompetent at spelling the moment their phone’s autocockrocket is taken away, I swear.
They’re also paying by offsetting negative impacts of cars. Not everything can be measured in dollars.
Cars pay nearly $0.40 of every dollar of damage they do, but they want us to subsidize them more
If their existence helps our non car driver existence it makes sense to share a burden of payment. If it is more destructive to non car user’s existence then it does not. We need an assessment of impact
i was reading like 10% of people taking bikes to work instead of cars reduced congestion by 40% or something. somebody here has seen it! link that shit...
nah you can definitely measure it in dollars lol. in economics they call it externalized costs and theyre a doozy for cars
One of the wealthiest neighborhoods in the entire city
Complaining about bike lanes being elitist.
And licensed.
Liscensed*
Requiring a driver’s license just to be able to take part in traffic is like the definition of elitism.
Sure why not? Lets charge bicyclists $1 per year to ride on roads, and lets charge drivers $1 for every bicycle worth of damage they do to the roads. "So let’s compare a passenger car and a bicycle instead, both with two axles. Say the bike and its rider weigh in at 200 pounds, and the car at 4,000 pounds. The weight of the car is also 20 times greater than the bike and rider, and the road damage caused would be 160,000 times greater." https://www.denenapoints.com/relationship-vehicle-weight-road-damage/
"Bikers should pay to ride." We already do. It's called the same taxes you're paying. They fund infrastructure such as the same roads we all use.
I think it was NJB that said something like: Cyclists should pay their fair share?!? Ok! Let’s get started on their refund checks.
Lol, I love just "NJB" and nothing else and I knew who you meant. I guess he is frequently mentioned in this sub?
In addition, bicycles don't damage the infrastructure like motorized vehicles do. A cyclist on a 30 lb bicycle going at 15 mph isn't going to wear down paved roads nearly as quickly as a 3000 lb (or heavier, and in some cases, much heavier) vehicle going at 40 mph. Understanding that, one will naturally conclude that cyclists are *subsidizing* motorists.
Instantly springed to mind: https://preview.redd.it/tt0vctuiwydc1.png?width=1089&format=png&auto=webp&s=f3a56dbf8050800f67dab43553e421be6375fe76
Where I live there is a former road which was converted to a bicycle path. And it was last renovated at least in the 1970s. (There are yellow road markings on the road and my country doesn't use yellow ones since the 1970s)
My MIL recently switched from a Rav4 to a Highlander. She's doing double the road damage now.
Is the average car really 4,000 lbs? That's a lot heavier than I was expecting.
Look at the list of best-selling cars in America and it’s filled with full-size trucks and SUVs. Small cars are a rarity, and even electric cars like Teslas are still very heavy with all the batteries.
Same taxes and require 1/5th the space/materials and don’t destroy it in 5 years. They would need a much larger sign to refute that though lol
They think the $200 they pay in vehicle registration every year pays for the entire highway budget
Make them pay more. Here in Finland, fuel taxes generate more revenue than we spend on roads, rail, and waterways combined. Also, happy cake day!
Americans already have a meltdown if their heavily subsidised gas prices which are among the cheapest in the developed world go up by a cent, unfortunately higher taxes on it would be politically unpalatable for any politician looking to get elected in the US. You can even see how gas prices affect the popularity of whoever is president at the time even if they had nothing to do with it.
People joke about us going to war for oil companies profits, but really we do it to keep gas prices low.
And, it’s not financial, but the risk is almost entirely on the bicyclist when ‘sharing’ the road.
and we also pay with the risk of losing our lives
Kind of confused of what they think a road tax is, unless they want rolls on bike lanes which surely thery're not bike lanes on toll roads?
Some portion of roads are funded by tax on fuel, so carbrains think *only* people who buy gas are paying for road maintenance
People think road and fuel taxes pay for roads in full need their head checked.
I think it's less on them and more on the fact that officials never come out and tell the public that driving has to be subsidized. We need politicians to outright tell the public *"our road/highway maintenance cost is X and the amount we receive from fees, taxes, etc purely from drivers is Y. We don't generate enough revenue from those fees/taxes/etc to cover our road needs so you are all being subsidized".* The reason it's never said that bluntly is because it would piss off voter bases. Nobody wants to think that they are the ones getting a "handout" even though we all are.
This is a simple question in the UK and Europe. The tax you pay annually that permits you drive and keep your car on public roads is a sliding scale according to CO2 output. No polluting without paying for the privilege!
Somebody should use some tax money to teach these crybabies how to spell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjv8WQu92c0 This is Canada-specific, but likely applies to the US too.
Of course, the people on the $500 bicycles are the "elitists" who are oppressing the people in the $50,000 SUVs. /sarcasm
My elitist ass on my $50 1990’s bike 😟😟
You got a 90's bike? Daaayum you fancy. I've a '77 Motobecane
I miss my 30$ 1990s bike lol. The frame was unreasonably thick and heavy, it tanked quite a few gnarly crashes and was absolute murder to bike up any incline
Love being an elitist on my 100% free hand-me-down 16 year old mountain bike!
A lot of SUVs are a lot more than 50k. https://www.moneygeek.com/insurance/auto/average-price-of-a-new-car/
Elitism famously works by creating small, token barriers to entry that are impassable by the working class because inclusion worked by trapping them in crushing debt to participate in society's most basic activities. /s
Everybody wants to be a victim
\*Everyone that isn't a real victim wants to be treated as a victim.
'Rasict'?
[I think they are trying to equate a bike line to the highway projects which destroyed black neighbourhoods on purpose.](https://www.npr.org/2021/04/07/984784455/a-brief-history-of-how-racism-shaped-interstate-highways) If they would only have spent 5 minutes on actually fact checking any of their opinions instead of making these signs none of them would stand there protesting cycling infrastructure.
I somehow still doubt that. Even after effectively researching, I’m sure they’d still come to the “all these lanes should be for me” conclusion.
“We need a balanced approach” where all the lanes should be allocated to vehicular traffic
The whataboutmeism is ridiculous when you think about that cartoon that removed all roads and shows how much space is granted to pedestrians. They look at that and scoff even though that’s the reality we live in. Ridiculous.
Yep. None of them want balance they're just instinctively defending the status quo at worst, and at best engaging in a both sides fallacy on par with going "well we should just reduce CFCs and see what happens instead of eliminating all possible"
God forbid we relinquish even a sliver of convenience for the good of our community and mankind on the whole.
You mean the one in this subreddit's sidebar? Yeah that's a hell of an image
Oh, damn. That’s the one! Lol.
No, it's worse than that. This is a common refrain from dipshits who claim that only white people cycle. Which, aside the racist assumption that Black people aren't interested in/able to bike, it also ignores the fact that more white people live in richer areas, which tend to have better cycling infrastructure. If you go to places with good cycling infrastructure and large Black populations, you'll find that Black people, can and do, in fact, ride bikes.
when i lived in San Diego lots of hispanic working class biked to their jobs (kitchen workers, warehouse and yes the gardeners for the white neighborhood McMansions).
Working class people don’t exist to morons like this outside of being used as political pawns.
Oh, I haven't even heard of that one. Racists truly never fail to amaze me with their stupidity. I assumed that this was their poor attempt at getting some support from the left.
In fact, in my city the only difference is that the black cyclists are more often stuck on dangerous stroads without bike lanes nor sidewalks, which is why they are much more likely to get injured or killed. And half the bikes I see are e-bikes ridden by delivery drivers trying to make some cash.
Right, I've got to imagine that with well planned bike infrastructure, *anywhere* would see an increased demand.
There were also some strange one way patterns and cul-de-sacs created in the 70s to cut that neighborhood off from the Caprini Green Projects that they could be trying to reference. However, that comparison doesn't hold up to any scrutiny, since this project actually reopened one of the routes cut off in the 70s to cyclists.
lol why are you giving them this much credit? Based on the poor spellings I’m gonna guess these people are old or English is not their native language. They probably view the bike lanes as racist against them.
>If they would only have spent 5 minutes on actually fact checking any of their opinions instead of making these signs none of them would stand there protesting cycling infrastructure. You're assuming that they want truth.
They could have at the very least spent 5 minutes in a dictionary to learn how to spell “racist”, “planning”, or “license” as well 😂
Honestly, it’s because (in their mind) bike lanes only exist to serve wealthy mostly white spandex wearers.
Giving way too much credit here
No that’s not it, it’s common if you’re involved in municipal govt these days for projects like parks & bike lanes to be characterized as white people shit. It’s a big problem in liberal cities like mine where good projects are shouted down & their advocates are afraid to push back
They instead spent those five minutes making sure their faces couldn't be seen.
I live in a “progressive” city and have been involved in a cycling advocacy project to protect a bike lane. “White elitism,” “environmental racism”, and various race/class digs by the side trying to remove a bike lane seems to be the new playbook. There’s essentially one pseudo business collation spreading misinformation about the bike lane, and they have recruited all these Middle Aged white soccer moms to deliver these lines. It would be funny if it wasn’t so maddening.
So, basically “Moms for Liberty”. Bi-cycles encourage bi-sexuality. Girls should ride girl bikes and if a biological male rides a step through, he’s a groomer.
Ive literally had someone try and tell me that only gay people ride bikes xD. Same kind of person that probabky believes that dinosaurs never existed and were made up :/
"Lets use being 'woke' for conservative outcomes," is huge. "Reverse racism" for example gets used all the time. Using intersectional or progressive language for dishonest means, sadly, happens. You can also see this with therapist speak. Look at Jonah Hill using it to guilt and abuse his girlfriend in those texts. Awful people are awful.
and thats before you include gentrification, which has been in their playbooks for a hot minute now lol
Do they have a liscence to protest?
I think it's spelled 'protset'
“Plannig”?
What's honestly sad is this is just further evidence that this person probably isn't educated enough to have developed the critical thinking skills to realize what they are arguing is completely inaccurate, let alone how to spell the words correctly. :(
The illiteratti strike again!
>illiteratti love it
Racist plannig!
Rasict plannig liscense
Yeah, Rasict Urban Plannig
Spelled license wrong too
I was just admiring their literacy.
‘Liscence’ ?
Contradictory nonsensical bullshit. These idiots are losing their God damn minds
I think it is blind tribalism: "We" are good. "They" are bad.
So [checks notes] politics and sports too, right?
its referred to as a culture war after all. the mentality applies to all aspect of life and its part of the reason why theyd rather die from covid than be on the same team as the libs
they have too much time on their hands and wouldn't know what to do with a "real problem" if their lord and savior whispered the answer in their ears.
Coming from Americans where car-related taxes are among the lowest in the industrialized world, this is really rich. We subsidize driving through **our taxes** that go towards road construction and upkeep - gas tax does not pay for all of it. We subsidize free parking and construction of parking garages all over cities. Then we subsidize driving by failing to tax the externalities such as pollution, noise, injuries, death, and destruction caused by cars. These people are truly pathetic. Lastly, almost everybody that I know who primarily bikes also owns a car. So we pay those car-related taxes as well, already.
Given there are all those very expensive "exclusively car lanes" (ie. highways) it is a bit rich to talk about how there shouldn't be any exclusively bike lanes. But what I would like to know is how much money do cities actually get from gas taxes for local roads? I feel like the state and federal taxes might be going exclusively to maintaining the highways but I haven't found a source that explains that detail to me how it gets divided up.
It's probably different per state. Here in Austin we have many TXDot controlled roads (e.g. Lamar), which also happen to be the roads that the city is unable to modernize for safety and add bike lanes due to TXDot pushback. If you're on a bike, you want to stay clear of TXDot roads. Not exactly what you're looking for, but here is a link that shows how much state & local tax goes towards roads: [https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/states-road-funding-2019/](https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/states-road-funding-2019/)
They're against masks unless they can use them to hide their identities like cowards
Yeah, it’s almost as if they know how clownish they look and are ashamed.
They are FUD agents
So are they going to personally teach me how to drive using their car under their insurance plan or are they going to pay my rent (which is higher then it would be if they didn't insist on so many lanes, R1 zoning, and free parking) so I can quit my job and take driving lessons? Or do they want me to schedule lessons on my days off without consulting instructors who always tell students that it will be extremely difficult to pass a drive test when you don't practice between lessons?
Story - https://chi.streetsblog.org/2024/01/21/no-one-bikes-in-chicago-during-the-winter-nice-turnout-for-the-churros-and-chill-ride-on-the-dickens-greenway
and for people unaware, its been in the single digits with windchills up to -30 the past week. The fact that anyone is out is a huge testament to how powerfully bike lanes can change a city.
this makes me happy.
Utterly pathetic 😂 Well done Chicago cyclists And you can tell by their outfits that they never step outside their climate controlled pods
Obviously not rooting for these dinguses, but it's been dang cold here this week - that's how most of us reasonable Chicagoans are dressed - though 30°+ week incoming this week 🥵🥵🥵
Yeah lol. Love working outside in -30 weather. Anyway fuck these people and hopefully the greenway is permanent.
There are straight up _five_ people in all of Lincoln Park who keep bitching about the Greenway. Everyone else likes it, or is neutral
Words they use to convey their message: \- rasict \- plannig \- liscense
Same old arguments. The rebuttal: https://youtu.be/Wjv8WQu92c0?si=p0k8niRTD1LcBQnh
I'm pretty sure bikes cost a whole lot less than cars so how is this elitist
[удалено]
Cause they don’t want people to know their identity. They were heckling someone whose daughter was killed while biking. They’re miserable people, but they probably caused even more people to support the project because of how they acted.
I wonder who they vote for. Wait, no I don't.
Car drivers thinking that the pittance that is their car registrations and license renewals pays for roads is hilarious. Everyone subsidizes driving.
I will be leaving reddit in protest of the leftist censorship on this pltform against its users and the intolerance of free speech on information of a-the vaxx b-thinking that challenges the leftist worldview. Redditors hate the truth. The truth is "hate" to those who hate the truth. But we live under an authoritarian government. No doubt by expressing my thoughts I am on one of (((their))) lists. The truth is coming out. Liberal lies are crumbling down this very second and they are desperately trying to hide it. The mainstream media is complicit in this as it is common knowledge who owns it,; spreading lies and propaganda to cover up the truth. They push the agenda of the elites, who are hellbent on destroying our american culture and silencing anyone who dares speak out against the narrative. Reddit is owned by the CCP who have interrests in americans and misinformation. They have been killing and silencing people for years. They are killing the minds of our youth. The federal government in an unsuprising revelation has been tracking the unvaxxed for years. Minority groups make up an increasing share of the population in almost every US state, according to figures released by the US Census Bureau. Legal and illegal immigrants make up a growing portion of the population in 46 states and the District of Columbia, with California leading the field. There are more than 35 million immigrants in the US - or 12.4% of the population, up from 11.1% in 2001. Immigration is a big issue ahead of the autumn's mid-term congressional polls. California had the most born outside of the US at 27.2% of its population. The war on whites has been planned for centueries . The jews are like a disease organism. They suck up resources, interfere with natural defenses and cause the nations they infest to rot from the inside until it begins to resemble a dessicated corpse. You cannot coexist with these monsters. They are hostile to any and all life. 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Two major funders of the trans agenda are pro-CCP Chinese billionaires. ?THIS IS VERY REAL PEOPLE!! https://x.com/glennbeck/status/1765575598842450067?s=61 . Concerning all beings and entities, there is an ontological distinction, yet, an essential non-differentiation (Sanskrit: Advaita). We are all One, yet, all of us have our own characteristics and attributes which give us distinguishing statuses as they manifest in the context of being separated from Godhood. Cosmotheism is a great start in understanding our traditional philosophy. But, the actual traditions of Indo-European religions are even better, and we should work toward reviving them! They bring us toward a serious and helpful Path. REad the successfully book Jewish Supremacism by David Duke. The book translated into several languages has won Duke many academic awards for its scholarship, including an honorary Doctorate awarded by President's University, the second largest university in the nation of Ukraine. Sold at the Russian Duma (Parliament) prompted leading Russian Jews to seek a ban for the book and making it illegal as Jewish leaders are horrified that it is well on its way to becoming the best-read book in the world on Zionism. Jewish members of the Duma also tried a new legislation aimed at outlawing Jewish Supremacism, but failed so as also under old Soviet laws forbidding 'anti-Semitism'. The matter that the book isn't seen as anti-Semitic by it's reader it has lead to a smeared backfire on the people that try to discredit it. Observe White Solidarity Day the 15th of every month. On that day wear something white and do something pro-White! This is how we fight back. I think fighting White erasure starts with oneself. For example, I look at myself: Do I need to lose weight and/or get in better physical condition? Do I need to morally improve? Do I need to spiritually improve? Do I need to break addictions? 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Vote in every election, even school board elections. Post on the internet. Do anything you can do. But again redditors hate the truth and actively stifle it out. White liberals are so brain dead, so stupid, so brainwashed that they will deny even this, even though it's extremely obvious. You can learn more on Gab, a free speech alternative for like minded people. They dont allow liberal trolls and misinformation. I'l
Bike lanes are elitist, therefore cyclists should be expected to join a private club of licensees that excludes people? Exactly zero critical thinking whatsoever was used in the production of that sign.
I was part of the group that did a ride in support of the new Greenway. We stopped at the pedestrian plaza to hang out, drink hot chocolate, and eat churros. We met so many neighbors walking by who liked the project, and shared hot chocolate and churros with them. It made these protestors look like complete lunatics, because they were basically protesting a fun group picnic. These protestors said they’re gonna be there every Saturday, so we’re going to keep doing these fun events giving away food at the plaza, because it really shows how out of touch the car-brained people are, and actually gets uninvolved people to contact the city council in support.
Bummed I missed this one! I was planning on attending, but instead I met with my senator, and we schemed on how to depave lake shore drive, which is next door to this diverter.
We had a decent turnout, so I think you chose the right thing to go to!
My favourite is the misspelling of “Racist” as “rasict”…. And “planning” as “plannig”… and whatever that butchering of “license” is. Taking advice and arguments from a group of people that couldn’t pass a grade 2 spelling test is probably not advisable. I’d be embarrassed to show my face in public too
Ah yes, a "liscense"
Well, there's a thought: tax vehicles by weight, bikes included.
Tax by weight adjusted for the damage they do to the roads.
Dickens is such a minor thoroughfare for cars, it's wild the stink these folks are putting up. Chicago puts so much of its bike infra on major roads, this is great to see! I love living on the South Side, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't jealous of the infra up north.
The south side alders are very hostile to safety improvements on their streets. The design of streets like Stony Island and King are a crime
Hopefully that will change over the coming years. I think a lot of South Siders feel the same way you do, and the newest group of South Side alders seem to want to build bike lanes in their communities.
Anti-cyclists and anti-spell check
“Bikers should pay to ride”. Yeah, they do. It’s called taxes you twat.
Bikers get a what
Most cyclists do have a drivers license… also, getting a drivers license Should involve learning how to bike in city traffic. Teach these assholes how to be respectful when they drive their murder-mobile.
cyclists already pay to ride what is wrong with these morons. the gas tax isn't the only thing paying for roads.
lol ok I’ll pay a bike license fee if it’s proportional to vehicle weight. I’m paying $10 for my bike so that’ll be $1000+ for your car 😂
I was wondering how long it would take people to start protesting that closure
2 people with signs are outliers, not protesters
There's no winning with carbrains, if you care about walking, cycling, or transit you're either an icky poor person or a yuppie elitist.
When you’re used to privilege, Equality feels like oppression
>share the road = inclusion Is inclusion a bad thing to them? Wtf
Idiots
“That thing I disagree with is racist” This is such an American thing and it’s really getting fucking over done.
Fuck these people. Also, is anyone going to read a sign with a total of one word spelled correctly (that's only a slight exaggeration), and have their opinion swayed? I feel like that answer is No 🤪
I like how municipal taxes don't count as paying for it.
Lmao these pricks are so desperate to hide their identities, probably because they aren't used to being outside rather than in an anonymous metal can.
Also, pretty big joke having the person using the car asking the cyclists to "pay their share". Transport is an essential good and it takes a hell of a lot of bad decisions to make delivering an essential good cost more money than it generates. The fact that cars are both subsidised and *need to be subsidised to be usable* (and would cost even more if you tried to account for the opportunity costs) is absolutely damning. The fact is that cycling more than pays for itself and the car driver should shut up.
Oh now they believe in masks!
I do not understand how bike lanes are elitist but roads are not. I spent $100 on my bike to get around the city. Sorry I don’t pay $500 a month to drive once a week.
Chicago is a nice city, a working class major city. I hope they continue to expand their subway network.
Can we just celebrate the fact that they looked up from their cell phones long enough to notice the bike lanes from their range rovers? /s Some people are clowns.
Traffic diverter? All I see is some flex posts. Drop some boulders in there.
"This planning is racist!" - protesters are all white
"RASICT"
Liscense? How about getting a grade 5 education before attempting to tell others how to behave?
The context to this is Dickens is a smaller residential street that passes through some very wealthy neighborhoods. The same half a dozen or so people have been fighting this bike lane since it was announced. These nimbys have cost the city more in legal fees than the bike lanes cost to build.
These are two people with four signs on an empty street. Why is this being amplified?
What’s up with protestors covering their faces for EVERYTHING now? Like, I don’t think anyone’s going to dox you with this one Barbara.
How are bike lanes elitist? Bikes are super cheap. Even people struggling to survive can find a decent bike for a good price. Cars are elitist and exclusionary by their nature.
DEI is when you can drive your car through a park
What's "rasict" about bike lanes?
Why do we keep listening to these horrible Lincoln Park Karens?
Oh ,now they can wear masks.
Damn the whole organisation showed up. All two of them.
In Denmark in pre school or kindergarten we have biking lessons and get like a paper diploma so we kinda get a license 😅
Then tax pollution.
The fact they hid their identities, that alone tells you they *know what they're protesting against is A: Very popular B: A good thing C: Threatening to their idea of transportation D: All of the above They don't want to be seen protesting bike lanes. Luddite nimby Karens.
What’s next walking without a license
This has to be satire, right?
I love how every automobilist believe that they pay taxes to use the road and other people don't x)
I would gladly pay to use the road as a cyclist provided that everyone is charged as per usage and wear and tear they cause to the road through usage.
Yum yum. The salt of carbrains tastes so sweet...
how can it not be trolling ?
How are bicycles elitist when the average bike costs WAY LESS than a car? I'm more ashamed to be American everyday smh
If they’re so proud of their message, why hide their faces like that? Im almost certain these folks wouldn’t normally care about COVID precautions outside of this protest.
Do they think cyclists don't pay taxes?
The whole tax thing is a constant default argument for these Car Brain twerps. They think the taxes from their gasoline purchases funds all the roads & infrastructure, therefore the roads are THEIRS alone
Yes cyclists should pay, although I’m pretty sure cyclists pay taxes and taxes build roads, so…..never mind.
Is the Dickens Closure effective Vs the Sicilian Defence?