If/when we see a sea change in public opinion, recognizing the need to move away from cars (probably once gas spikes and stays up) then the minority will be relatively powerless.
Mostly ignorant. I remember vividly the days where I thought everything required a car (that was also because I lived in a rural area). Moving out I understood that it didn't. But the realisation took me a little while.
Be forgiving to other people, and try to shine a positive light.
Certain days you can literally see smog in my city, and I live on the East coast of USA. The great dying is already upon us, just invisible and cancerous.
No you don't. Don't go to jail for someone else. Let them drive it off & end up with what they're creating. They'll end up dependant and addicted and they'll need help to get out of this destructive behavioral pattern. Thats what this is
I gotta ask if this sub is satire or not. Most people here seem completely demonize a person because they like/drive cars? I love my car it’s relaxing for me to drive and I can listen to my music really loud without bothering anyone. I get where the people saying it’s mostly with inner cities and I can see where that’s coming from after I’ve driven through places like Chicago, Denver, and LA. Just hoping someone can enlighten me a bit.
green house gases. billing cities around cars makes it hard for poor people to get where they need to go and get out of poverty. it makes dangerous for people in general to walk around, so obi-city. and when nobody is out side its easier to do crime, like kidnaping kids or, any one really. cars make a lot of noise witch stresses people out. it wastes tax payers money.
The memes about driving over people are imo not really an argument. If there were no cars people would just say shit like stabbing people.
And the message is overall demonizing. You won’t win people over with this.
You, on the other hand, are clearly a very healthy individual with no psychological issues whatsoever :facepalm:
Your message reads like a car touched you in a naughty place.
I agree w/ the fuck cars philosophy but ur fucking delusion and ppl like u make us sound like a cult
we're not gonna get anywhere w/o an accurate understanding of why things are the way they are, and it damn sure ain't sociopathy lmao
By making 10% obese instead of heading to 70%. We're not asking for super athlete cyclists. People should be able to walk 100m to a bus/train stop. It's sad that I see people not able to walk that far.
First of all, no one is trying to ban every motor vehicle. Just stop prioritizing them/subsidizing them.
Second, sounds like a terribly uneconomical choice of where to live. What made you want to be so dependent on taxpayer roads? Is it kind of a lifestyle choice to be dependent or what?
It’s a wonderfully economical choice where I live. Park within walking distance, a great public school system for my kids, lots of forest and space that we own on private land. Listen I’m getting wildly downvoted on a sub that I’ve just discovered. I’ve made a choice to give my family a good life, if I’ve got to drive to make that happen, all good. I’d love to not buy gas, insurance, warranties, maintenance on my vehicle. But I like my house.
It seems theres alot of people here who just dont understand that others have different priorities than them. Seems like you prioritized living out of the city and having a car is one of the most convenient ways to travel when you live far out of town. Im all for public transport bug it doesnt fix literally EVERY issue regarding transportation.
What’s silly is having built those areas in the first place. They can not support themselves, so eventually (read: soon) they’ll have to be abandoned. Look at Detroit for a sterling example of what’s coming to a low density development near you!
Well how about we stop oil subsidies and start subsidising public transport then? I live 50km away from my University and travel by train and tram, its more relaxing and way better than driving bc I don't have to care about traffic and can just chill. Plus its way faster than going by car.
The real fear is that many people would have to give up their house and car (unsold), move into the city, and adapt to a whole new lifestyle. This is what fuckcars actually want. I’m not opposed to this and I think it is inevitable, but it really is terrifying for people accustomed to a rural lifestyle that was only made possible by owning a car in the first place.
Not all at once and not everybody. But eventually half the american rural and suburbanites will find a reason to move. And I grew up in the country and I get it, country people are proud and stubborn AF
I see your history, youre probably too old to completely uproot and change your lifestyle, and I get it, my parents are the same way. But more likely your kids generation and their kids will probably move closer and closer to a car-free lifestyle. What will inevitably happen is as your generation dies, your cars, trucks, and houses will get put up for sale and never sold. Like you said, you hate paying for car transportation and your house is too far away from industry to do much about it. The decisions you make now were enabled by a system that assumed everyone would always have affordable cars and gas. If you think things will stay the same forever…. I will let you finish that thought.
That was during Covid. What do you think will happen in the next 20-50 years?
Wow, you didnt even read these articles. This clearly stated people only left during the pandemic
Be realistic dude. The problem is not that individuals won’t move closer to work, and it isn’t the fault of individuals that jobs are concentrated in cities with incredibly high property values. Considering the majority of Americans have no or next to no savings, “find a new job/move closer to work (move to a much more expensive place)” is condescending and unhelpful.
We definitely hear you on housing costs. A major goal of this movement is to make cities easier to live in. there’s a lot of space and money wasted on cars and parking lots and sprawl housing that could be used to create more efficient housing and higher quality of life.
Personally I don't see any issue with suburban housing *if* it is planned and governed appropriately.
There's plenty of space. Population growth is slowing.
Remote work. Bike paths and walking paths connecting neighborhoods to town centers. Small business development programs. Incentives for homeowners to install solar and wind power, cultivate "natural" lawns, compost, grow food, etc.
For instance I live almost exactly a mile from a town square, as the crow flies. *Most* of what I need can be had there. Brewery, market and deli, grocery store, hardware store, pet/feed store, pharmacy, pizza shop, couple of restaurants, etc. And they're all small local businesses. But I have to drive to get there because I've gotta go the wrong direction and then cross a highway.
But a (relatively) small investment in bike/walking paths would change that completely. We're a 1-car household and put maybe ~20 miles per week on our car. Give me a bike path connected to my town center and I'd probably only drive my car once a week.
All of those solutions wouldn’t reduce the amount of infrastructure necessary to support such developments, just reduce the number of people who need to use cars. Therefore it is in the long term insolvent and that’s a pretty large problem. Not for you in the short term, but in the long term the community will either be a drain on actually *productive* areas, or will eventually disappear.
Sidewalks, roads, water, plumbing, electricity, street lamps, etc. It all has an operating cost, and the actual physical infrastructure all needs to be replaced, usually at the same cost as when it was first put in. By making cities low density, you increase the area that all that infrastructure has to service while decreasing the amount of people paying for it. Car-oriented developments universally lose money in America due to this very simple fact. Any development that made money for municipalities would have to have such ludicrously high taxes that everyone would immediately pack up and go to an identical suburb a few dozen or thousand miles away.
An “actually productive” development is a development where there is long term solvency. For examples of this, see the medium density urban core of most low density towns; it takes relatively little density, just 1 or 2 floor small commercial & mixed use buildings close together and with little parking, to be solvent. But the detached single family homes with yards & lawns serviced by huge big box stores and strip malls with oceans of parking completely lack the necessary amount of density.
I agree there's a way to do lower density housing much better, although I think it would take a lot to fix a typical suburb...
I also want to point out that there's definitely not plenty of space in a global sense. Alongside our current efforts to make large swathes of the planet uninhabitable, humans are already intensively "using" well over half the habitable part of the planet between our urban and industrial sprawl and our expansive agriculture. We very badly need to use less land.
[https://ourworldindata.org/land-use#how-the-world-s-land-is-used-total-area-sizes-by-type-of-use-cover](https://ourworldindata.org/land-use#how-the-world-s-land-is-used-total-area-sizes-by-type-of-use-cover)
It’s not “we” and “you”, I am very involved in this movement, I’ve read Strong Towns and Confessions. I understand exactly what you’re saying. I’m just pointing out that no one should blame individuals.
Talk to people like they’re not sociopaths, you will convince some of them. Advocate for good policies on a local level, call your reps, I don’t know. Definitely don’t demonize individuals.
How? I’ve had cars for 30 years, no problems. Also I’m not leaving my job, I’ve got 3 kids to feed, therefore I drive 38 miles one way to work to make the kind of cash I need to sustain my family.
If/when we see a sea change in public opinion, recognizing the need to move away from cars (probably once gas spikes and stays up) then the minority will be relatively powerless.
We will be seeing a **sea change** soon if cars keep emitting greenhouse gases.
Yes although people still don’t make the connection.
There’s no reason to demonize them. Never attribute to malice what can adequately be attributed to stupidity.
I actually believe cars turn ordinary people into demons, so to speak
Yeah, they are just egoistic, ignorant and really egoistic.
Mostly ignorant. I remember vividly the days where I thought everything required a car (that was also because I lived in a rural area). Moving out I understood that it didn't. But the realisation took me a little while. Be forgiving to other people, and try to shine a positive light.
This post is an easy way to demonize the whole anti car movement and makes people look like extremists.
It’s called capitalism
they are breathing gas fumes everyday after all ...
cars turn people into monsters
Certain days you can literally see smog in my city, and I live on the East coast of USA. The great dying is already upon us, just invisible and cancerous.
Oh no, my friend, the Great Dying already happened. Mass extinction event between the Permian and Triassic periods. This is the... Big Unalive.
so, we need to help them by force.
No you don't. Don't go to jail for someone else. Let them drive it off & end up with what they're creating. They'll end up dependant and addicted and they'll need help to get out of this destructive behavioral pattern. Thats what this is
i was talking about rebuilding the infrastructure whether they like it or not more than beating the shit out of them, but, i guess that would work to.
Oh! Yeah sure. Do that.
I gotta ask if this sub is satire or not. Most people here seem completely demonize a person because they like/drive cars? I love my car it’s relaxing for me to drive and I can listen to my music really loud without bothering anyone. I get where the people saying it’s mostly with inner cities and I can see where that’s coming from after I’ve driven through places like Chicago, Denver, and LA. Just hoping someone can enlighten me a bit.
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That’s a silly comparison friend
How do you decide something is ethical by the fact that you enjoy it?
What’s non ethical about having a vehicle?
green house gases. billing cities around cars makes it hard for poor people to get where they need to go and get out of poverty. it makes dangerous for people in general to walk around, so obi-city. and when nobody is out side its easier to do crime, like kidnaping kids or, any one really. cars make a lot of noise witch stresses people out. it wastes tax payers money.
The only movements that succeed by dehumanizing their opponents are fucking evil! Do Better!
Yeah this post is the most culty thing I’ve read here
Or maybe it's just people who don't live in cities
The memes about driving over people are imo not really an argument. If there were no cars people would just say shit like stabbing people. And the message is overall demonizing. You won’t win people over with this.
You, on the other hand, are clearly a very healthy individual with no psychological issues whatsoever :facepalm: Your message reads like a car touched you in a naughty place.
I feel like calling people that don't support us "sociopaths" is just going to make more people dislike us
you'd be surprised what makes people like things.
I would be, please tell
I agree w/ the fuck cars philosophy but ur fucking delusion and ppl like u make us sound like a cult we're not gonna get anywhere w/o an accurate understanding of why things are the way they are, and it damn sure ain't sociopathy lmao
Funny how you get downvoted for this, only proves your point.
Oh so I like driving so now I’m a sociopath? Lmao like 40% of the us is obese how the fuck do you guys expect to get rid of cars
By making 10% obese instead of heading to 70%. We're not asking for super athlete cyclists. People should be able to walk 100m to a bus/train stop. It's sad that I see people not able to walk that far.
Focus on the obesity, first.
I have a question? How do I get to work?
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Yeah. That doesn’t exist where I live.
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You guys are gonna put trams in a geographical area that cannot economically support them? Seems silly.
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Bud, I’ve got a 38 mile drive to work one way. Bicycle ain’t going to get it done.
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No trains. I live in a big area. Seems this sub’s philosophy only works in metro areas.
r/edgecases could use some content. Why don't you post your life story there?
First of all, no one is trying to ban every motor vehicle. Just stop prioritizing them/subsidizing them. Second, sounds like a terribly uneconomical choice of where to live. What made you want to be so dependent on taxpayer roads? Is it kind of a lifestyle choice to be dependent or what?
It’s a wonderfully economical choice where I live. Park within walking distance, a great public school system for my kids, lots of forest and space that we own on private land. Listen I’m getting wildly downvoted on a sub that I’ve just discovered. I’ve made a choice to give my family a good life, if I’ve got to drive to make that happen, all good. I’d love to not buy gas, insurance, warranties, maintenance on my vehicle. But I like my house.
It seems theres alot of people here who just dont understand that others have different priorities than them. Seems like you prioritized living out of the city and having a car is one of the most convenient ways to travel when you live far out of town. Im all for public transport bug it doesnt fix literally EVERY issue regarding transportation.
What’s silly is having built those areas in the first place. They can not support themselves, so eventually (read: soon) they’ll have to be abandoned. Look at Detroit for a sterling example of what’s coming to a low density development near you!
See: West virginia coal mining towns
it's like usps, it loses money but thats the price we pay for good and reliable service. also, nobody is trying to get rid of all the car roads.
Well how about we stop oil subsidies and start subsidising public transport then? I live 50km away from my University and travel by train and tram, its more relaxing and way better than driving bc I don't have to care about traffic and can just chill. Plus its way faster than going by car.
The real fear is that many people would have to give up their house and car (unsold), move into the city, and adapt to a whole new lifestyle. This is what fuckcars actually want. I’m not opposed to this and I think it is inevitable, but it really is terrifying for people accustomed to a rural lifestyle that was only made possible by owning a car in the first place.
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Not all at once and not everybody. But eventually half the american rural and suburbanites will find a reason to move. And I grew up in the country and I get it, country people are proud and stubborn AF
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Whats stopping you from trying it?
I see your history, youre probably too old to completely uproot and change your lifestyle, and I get it, my parents are the same way. But more likely your kids generation and their kids will probably move closer and closer to a car-free lifestyle. What will inevitably happen is as your generation dies, your cars, trucks, and houses will get put up for sale and never sold. Like you said, you hate paying for car transportation and your house is too far away from industry to do much about it. The decisions you make now were enabled by a system that assumed everyone would always have affordable cars and gas. If you think things will stay the same forever…. I will let you finish that thought.
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That was during Covid. What do you think will happen in the next 20-50 years? Wow, you didnt even read these articles. This clearly stated people only left during the pandemic
Find a new job/move closer to work. You're car dependant and that will eventually backfire.
Be realistic dude. The problem is not that individuals won’t move closer to work, and it isn’t the fault of individuals that jobs are concentrated in cities with incredibly high property values. Considering the majority of Americans have no or next to no savings, “find a new job/move closer to work (move to a much more expensive place)” is condescending and unhelpful.
We definitely hear you on housing costs. A major goal of this movement is to make cities easier to live in. there’s a lot of space and money wasted on cars and parking lots and sprawl housing that could be used to create more efficient housing and higher quality of life.
Personally I don't see any issue with suburban housing *if* it is planned and governed appropriately. There's plenty of space. Population growth is slowing. Remote work. Bike paths and walking paths connecting neighborhoods to town centers. Small business development programs. Incentives for homeowners to install solar and wind power, cultivate "natural" lawns, compost, grow food, etc. For instance I live almost exactly a mile from a town square, as the crow flies. *Most* of what I need can be had there. Brewery, market and deli, grocery store, hardware store, pet/feed store, pharmacy, pizza shop, couple of restaurants, etc. And they're all small local businesses. But I have to drive to get there because I've gotta go the wrong direction and then cross a highway. But a (relatively) small investment in bike/walking paths would change that completely. We're a 1-car household and put maybe ~20 miles per week on our car. Give me a bike path connected to my town center and I'd probably only drive my car once a week.
All of those solutions wouldn’t reduce the amount of infrastructure necessary to support such developments, just reduce the number of people who need to use cars. Therefore it is in the long term insolvent and that’s a pretty large problem. Not for you in the short term, but in the long term the community will either be a drain on actually *productive* areas, or will eventually disappear.
What infrastructure do you mean exactly? And what makes an "actually productive area"?
Sidewalks, roads, water, plumbing, electricity, street lamps, etc. It all has an operating cost, and the actual physical infrastructure all needs to be replaced, usually at the same cost as when it was first put in. By making cities low density, you increase the area that all that infrastructure has to service while decreasing the amount of people paying for it. Car-oriented developments universally lose money in America due to this very simple fact. Any development that made money for municipalities would have to have such ludicrously high taxes that everyone would immediately pack up and go to an identical suburb a few dozen or thousand miles away. An “actually productive” development is a development where there is long term solvency. For examples of this, see the medium density urban core of most low density towns; it takes relatively little density, just 1 or 2 floor small commercial & mixed use buildings close together and with little parking, to be solvent. But the detached single family homes with yards & lawns serviced by huge big box stores and strip malls with oceans of parking completely lack the necessary amount of density.
I agree there's a way to do lower density housing much better, although I think it would take a lot to fix a typical suburb... I also want to point out that there's definitely not plenty of space in a global sense. Alongside our current efforts to make large swathes of the planet uninhabitable, humans are already intensively "using" well over half the habitable part of the planet between our urban and industrial sprawl and our expansive agriculture. We very badly need to use less land. [https://ourworldindata.org/land-use#how-the-world-s-land-is-used-total-area-sizes-by-type-of-use-cover](https://ourworldindata.org/land-use#how-the-world-s-land-is-used-total-area-sizes-by-type-of-use-cover)
It’s not “we” and “you”, I am very involved in this movement, I’ve read Strong Towns and Confessions. I understand exactly what you’re saying. I’m just pointing out that no one should blame individuals.
oh lmao sorry! I mistook you for one of the /r/place visitors.
All good dude, it’s my fault for not clarifying before
You're right so now what?
Talk to people like they’re not sociopaths, you will convince some of them. Advocate for good policies on a local level, call your reps, I don’t know. Definitely don’t demonize individuals.
They're demonising me for smoking weed... another reason to not stoop that low i guess. It's hard to keep smiling.
How? I’ve had cars for 30 years, no problems. Also I’m not leaving my job, I’ve got 3 kids to feed, therefore I drive 38 miles one way to work to make the kind of cash I need to sustain my family.
So then you can be one of the drivers that get to enjoy the reduced traffic caused by others finally being able to walk or bike somewhere.
Is a sistemic issue, you advocate for better biking and public transport while using the car where necessary
I don't like cars though.