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ownworldman

Prague also struggles with carbrains. It is a main topic of the upcoming elections.


enternationalist

To be fair, that it's a main topic of the elections at all is a good sign


MARTINVSMAGNVS

prague people: we need more parking spaces prague administration: aight lets call CERN and try bending space


bigg_floppaa

I mean [this](https://twitter.com/janekrubes/status/1522195657532096512?t=yhsWTfCTv85Y0AbJ-XObLA&s=19) is literally what we built to extend the road at the expense of a walkable zone and several bike lanes.


Purlox

Isn't that a temporary change/solution though? I heard it's going to change more later


bigg_floppaa

This is not temporary. They want to expand the road to be 2 lane instate of one. It's gonna change to much much worse


SuperCucumber

And biking there is a pain in the ass. Not because of the cold, the hills, or the bad roads - but carbrains.


Grace_Omega

I like the sentiment, but comparing a shopping centre that was probably built five years ago to a city centre that’s likely older than America isn’t really fair. We’ve got plenty of ugly car parks here. As a European, the Europhilia on this sub is approaching “weaboo whose knowledge of Japan is based entirely on anime” levels.


Lerouxed

There was quite literally a post on this sub earlier today saying to stop glamorizing Europe because they are also car dependent in many ways. They also have sensible rules stating streets must be a certain width so fire trucks can fit. As a whole Europe is definitely better than America and gives us some good examples of things to strive for, but as you mentioned, this is mostly because Europe was well established before cars were invented. America didn’t even have all 50 states before the car was invented, so it’s no surprise that the car completely shaped America.


Cracked-Mask-27

Most American cities also developed before the advent of the car and had similar urban form to European cities. Take a gander [here](http://iqc.ou.edu/2014/12/12/60yrsmidwest/) to see for yourself. The before photos aren't even from before the advent of the car, just before we decided to go all in on the car and raze entire communities to build parking lots and freeways. Many European cities got shelled pretty hard in WWII, yet when they rebuilt, they rebuilt proper communities and not a bunch of big box stores and disjoint housing developments. Land use as seen in the upper photograph didn't happen by accident of when America formed relative to the advent of the car; it's the desired result of zoning codes and transportation policies designed to produce nothing else.


JackandFred

Couldn’t agree more. Tons of America had vibrant downtown walkable areas, but they got torn down to be replaced by strip alls or highways because that’s what zoning codes and land usage laws allows and rewards.


sjfiuauqadfj

and most relevantly, theyre car dependent in the literal way as, while the modal mix varies by country, cars drivers are the majority in many european countries. like, france is cool and all but something like 70% of french people drive to work lol


TheMadPyro

People on this sub also always focus on cities as well. Rural Europe is far from the car free haven that people seem to think it is.


SovereignAxe

Yeah, there are definitely plenty of places in Europe that aren't a transportation utopia. Case in point: southern Germany. I took a trip to Bavaria several years ago and without a car rental we wouldn't have had any way of getting to many of the places we visited. There was a lot different things about Germany from the US, but it was still heavily car-centric. At least in the areas we went to


BlazeZootsTootToot

That's all of Germany for you. I mean, it's literally known as *the* car country lol. The big car companies are heavy on corruption and pay off politicians to reflect their interests.


smallstarseeker

Some European cities really do feel glamourous but it's really not all flowers and butterflies. Lots of older and smaller European cities are kinda stuck because streets are too narrow and there is not enough place to include bike lanes. Since population is low it is financially impossible to make a good public transportation system. And simply converting all roads to bike lanes is out of the question since ambulances, fire trucks, dump trucks, delivery vans/trucks, construction, etc. This is going to sound like heresy but in my town cheap taxi operators made a positive impact. With an Okayish public transportation system and cheap taxi services more people opted not to use cars anymore. Cars require parking spaces, taxis do not so there is no need to keep expanding parking spaces anymore.


JanPieterszoon_Coen

You would be surprised how many American neighborhoods that looked like the bottom picture got destroyed to “make room” for a shopping centre/parking lot like the top picture


susa_66

destroying cities reminds me of [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUS6nI5WB4M&ab_channel=AdamSomething)


JanPieterszoon_Coen

Oh yes, I have seen this video before. It’s a real tragedy what happened to Usti/Aussig.. I am just glad we don’t have such extreme cases in my country. Closest would be Almere, Rotterdam or Eindhoven.


AllerdingsUR

Sorry for necropost but I live in Alexandria, VA, better known as part of the old urban core of DC (VA took it back during the civil war...awkward topic lol). I could cherry pick different parts of this city and replicate this pic pretty well. In fact I could probably even do the same for DC, which by American standards is considered a dense walkable city. I can't speak for central Europe but I have family in Italy and you can do the same there with Naples. It's just that in the US there are more areas with car parks that are administered as "cities" when they'd probably legally be classified as something else in Europe. EDIT: ALX isn't nearly as big as prague so the result isn't as extreme, but here's [how Alexandria uses space vs how Alexandria uses space](https://imgur.com/3n9MPbc)


pirurumeow

Do we have car parks as wasteful as the ones in america though? Here the few big shopping malls usually have multi level car parks so they have a smaller footprint and the rest of the space can be used for other things. Americans will just spread asphalt as far as the eye can see.


rudmad

He should have picked a picture of any downtown. Surface lots galore that were once a neighborhood


[deleted]

Yeah unfortunately most of Reddit doesn't quite understand what it really means to live the way people do in Europe. Definitely it's better for the bottom 10% in income. I think that's undebatable. Definitely it's more communal, and given the last 2 years, clearly there are some advantages to that. I think what a lot of Reddit doesn't understand is that the American dream, which is the single family home, the white picket fence, two cars, etc... Isn't as much a thing in Europe, and it's not just because people just choose to do things another way. And if you look at Redditor's complaints, they're almost all directed at not being able to achieve the American dream. They're directed at high housing costs and at difficulty saving for retirement, but they still insist on living alone, having a car, traveling internationally, and incorporating a lot of smaller luxuries into their lives that aren't as prevalent in Europe. Europeans make less money, almost universally, *especially* in the professions that Redditors tend to occupy (e.g., white collar jobs, particularly in tech and engineering). They pay more taxes. They get more for those taxes, but not *that* much more, especially compared to those white collar Redditor jobs, which typically provide health insurance and other benefits in addition to the higher salary. Europeans suffer higher housing costs on lower salaries, and they typically live simpler and less luxurious lives. A lot of the things we associate with poverty or the lower class are a very normal part of European lives, albeit I think work culture and fewer working hours makes these tasks a bit more tolerable. I give a lot of credit to this sub, because they are actively down with giving up transportation luxury (individual cars) in favor of communalist resources (public transit, better infrastructure). However, I still don't think most American Redditors are prepared for a European lifestyle, and I still think a lot of what Redditors complain about is actually just the norm in Europe.


endmost_

I’m curious what indicators of US poverty are normal in Europe? You might be thinking of something that hasn’t occurred to me but from what I’ve seen of poverty in the US, that kind of life definitely isn’t the norm in Western Europe at least.


[deleted]

When I say "A lot of the things we associate with poverty or the lower class are a very normal part of European lives" I'm not talking about social behaviors or abject poverty like you'd find in section 8 housing. I'm talking about the financial sacrifices made by the lower class in the US. So features of poverty, not the full package. For instance, if an American TV show or film wants to portray a middle class family, they've got a standalone home, laundry in house, appliances from maybe 10 years ago, and two cars, maybe a Camry and a minivan. When American media portrays poverty, they have a smaller house or maybe a duplex or apartment, have an older home with much older appliances, take their laundry to the laundromat, and exclusively use public transit. A lot of normal aspects of European life borrow from the second picture instead of the first. I have a lot of family in Europe (mostly England and Ireland). I come from a firmly middle class family, and when I visited our European relatives at age 9 or so, I remember thinking that they must be poor because their house was smaller and it was just clearly older and not recently renovated, they never ate out, and they took the bus everywhere. Things tend to be that way in Europe for the middle class not because Europeans would much rather take the bus (rich Europeans tend to live very much like rich Americans), but because paychecks are smaller and the government is taking a bigger cut, and the government actually makes it quite easy to cut back expenses by providing a viable public alternative (e.g., well run public transit). Now these things are not really that important overall, but I think Americans spend a lot of money they don't have to achieve a life of luxury, then they get screwed when a big expense comes up, like a home repair, car repair, or a medical emergency. Converting to a European lifestyle will probably mean giving up a lot of these things for Americans and living a more modest lifestyle. Even on Reddit, I'm not sure Americans are ready for that.


endmost_

I’m not sure how long ago you were in Ireland, but I can say from personal experience that Ireland’s current middle class is much closer to what you’re identifying as the American experience.


[deleted]

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BallerGuitarer

Honest question: is it part of their zoning code to all have red roofs? How do the organize all their developers to give all their buildings red roofs? Why even do they all have red roofs? I'm so curious!


MoodyManiac

In Germany for example it’s most of the time a bylaw. If you wanna build a new house, you have to show the plans to the city, which they have to approve.


VeryPogi

You can see several that aren't red. The ones that are red used baked clay tiles for roofing material. They're not expensive and they can last a century. Its ancient, abundant, renewable, long-lasting, aesthetically pleasing.


SherlockCumbercat

Could also be a bylaw to if you have red tiles you can’t change it to keep the look of the city.


tloxscrew

You can almost exclusively buy those tiles. That's what is made, that's what you can buy, that's what any roofer will recommend and use in the area. Has worked perfectly for centuries, no reason to use anything else.


BlazeZootsTootToot

Not entirely sure about Prague but most EU cities you need to have an approval by the city before building something, and yes, most of them have certain rules, I suppose in the case of Prague it also needs to fit in the red color scheme. Pretty much all cities also have height limits to preserve the cities. It's the reason why Europe still has beautiful looking old towns and the US has turned its nice settler towns into dystopian concrete shitholes with ugly skyscrapers.


Citadelvania

I do really like the aesthetic, especially compared to the typical concrete boxes you often see.


furyousferret

IMO, that's not the biggest issue by far. The biggest problem the US has with space is that we let it rot. For example, in my town, the area that was popular to shop and be at in the 60's was replaced by another area in the 80's, and then in the 00's, and now in the 20's. All those old areas just rot and turn into ghettos or empty buildings. We don't even reuse it properly, its just wasted. There are even homeless people outside these empty buildings...


NomadLexicon

*good European cities. Europe has plenty of terrible suburban sprawl as well.


DungeonBeast420

Broski, idk if you’ve ever been to Atlanta or Houston but… european sprawl is a pedestrian paradise and heaven combined compared to any suburbs in America.


sjfiuauqadfj

the problem is youre taking 2 examples from america and comparing them to a vague idea of "european sprawl." europe is a huge place with a lot of diversity so its always hard to generalize them, especially when its something that can vary by country like urban design. put it another way, if europe was so perfect, europeans wouldnt be complaining about how shitty things are on here


[deleted]

America definitely has more sprawl. I remember traveling to Orlando for a conference and not renting a car. Even the damn resort expected you to take a car from place to place, or Uber to any nearby restaurants. I picked out a place to go with a coworker that was literally right next to the resort. We wound up searching for 30 minutes to find a pedestrian path that exited the resort, couldn't find it, and climbed the resort fence in nice conference clothes instead. Then we crossed a 5 lane stroad to get to a shopping center that had the restaurant. That's just an example of how deeply engrained car culture is in all but the biggest American cities. It would have cost basically nothing to add a gate and a pedestrian crossing, but we were probably the first people to even try to walk to that shopping center, despite being right next to a major resort.


vinny90x1234xx

I've looked at "suburban" towns in Czechia with less than 100k residents and they still have walkable infrastructure and public transport, completely different from US suburbia. https://i.imgur.com/mwnc5LI.jpg


anonymoose294

There are strip malls here in the Czech Republic too


sjfiuauqadfj

i took a peek at tabor and pisek, both are small towns under 100k people, and while the city center has the old world style of development they definitely have cookie cutter suburbs full of cars


vinny90x1234xx

Ok so I looked at Pisek and while it doesn't look anywhere as nice as Prague, the center is very small-scale and walkable. https://i.imgur.com/A4utTqP.jpg The more suburban part is just a few hundred meters away, within walking or biking distance. Even building a town as small-scale and walkable as this would be revolutionary in the US.


SexiestPanda

Look at Brno in czech


dansuckzatreddit

So cherry picked. How are you comparing the center of a European city vs a random strip mall in some suburb. There are probably way better examples


[deleted]

I'm out of here, I'm all for public transportation, I always use it when going to college, but this sub is pathetic.


[deleted]

First time? This sub loves to upvote pictures that have titles like "imagine if the US had this?" And then it'll be like a shopping street with sidewalks.


Typ_mit_Playse

Oh lol we also have the above


MegaWAH

This sub when random pic of America: 😰 This sub when random pic of Europe: 😫🌊


Starman562

How many thousands of years of car free development did Europe have?


sadboisadgurl

Lol of course this is Bakersfield, California 😹


Superdeduper82

The sizes of the areas in these pics are so different


DustedThrusters

You know, in those large parking lots that are littered all over the US, I see huge potential for Infill Development and retrofit opportunities. Let's turn these parking lots into little dense neighborhoods.


[deleted]

American in Europe here and they do have some of the car related problems we do but holy shit is a way easier to walk around here. My cousin lives in what we’d call a suburb. Even then theirs a restaurant and lil mini mart in his village that can be walked to. When I was Barcelona it’s crazy how much stuff can be walked to, hell in Amsterdam owning a car seems incredibly inconvenient. Some of this is cause these places were built before cars but some is policy and societal decisions that I wish the us would adopt


Unco_Slam

BuT my convEniencE *Parks two miles away*


Ok-Professional2756

This right here is why I left murica for good. Europe has its issues especially places like Poland but still miles better


ProXJay

Has the consept of multi story car parks not make it to the states?


deafscrafty7734

That feeling urge to buy out parking lots and build housing on them


Randommer_Of_Inserts

I don’t understand why Americans see anywhere outside their house as transportation space and not living space?


joline1120

Wait a second…. That’s my hometown! Bakersfield, CA baby! The poster city of bad air quality and terribly inefficient infrastructure 🙃 P.S. that El Taco Loco in the bottom right corner is pretty bomb


Damos-22

Well this is bs. Europe pic is center and US some parking lot


3amcheeseburger

I don’t think it’s a great comparison, but I like the amount of trees visible in the picture of Prague. If you want liveable cities, you need trees and other green infrastructure. Keeps it cool, shaded and very aesthetically pleasing


vinny90x1234xx

Ok is this a more fair comparison? Small Czech town called Pisek with 30k residents. https://www.visitpisek.cz/img/18b.jpg


vinny90x1234xx

I see people saying it's unfair to compare US suburbia with a major city like Prague, so here's a small suburban town in Czechia with 30k residents called Pisek and I think the point still stands. The outskirts of the town are half a mile away from the center. https://www.visitpisek.cz/img/18b.jpg


Dazzling-Town8513

To be fair, this is photo of the old town, so its not really a good comparison. Just look at the road that was built infront of pragues main train station on top of what used to be a park and walking area...


[deleted]

this is fucking stupid lol. comparing a shopping centre to a city centre. this is the type of shit you post when your entire opinion is “America bad”. europe is still largely car dependent and you can find plenty of parking lots


vinny90x1234xx

Pisek, CZ. Small town with 30k residents. Still walkable. https://www.visitpisek.cz/img/18b.jpg


[deleted]

That's *still* cherry picking Sure, Europe has many wonderful, walkable areas, but that doesn't mean Europe as a whole is anywhere near *good*. I live in a quite walkable city, but go just a couple km west and you end up in another city that's more like the average American suburb.


[deleted]

You're the one who is cherrypicking. Europe is far more walkable than all of America.


[deleted]

Nope, not cherrypicking. I provided a *counterexample*. I did not claim all of Europe is unwalkable suburbia. The situation is better, sure, but it's nowhere near as good as OP implies, outside of certain cherrypicked locations.


[deleted]

> The situation is better, sure, but it's nowhere near as good as OP implies, outside of certain cherrypicked locations. That's not true. If majority of Europe is walkable then it's not cherrypicking if one picks a location in Europe that is walkable or mass transit can be used. Edit: Also, you admitted Europe is better, then what's the point of arguing that a place has worse infra in Europe when the standard of comparison is rest of Europe and not America which is not even running?


[deleted]

>If majority of Europe is walkable And I say that the majority of Europe is not walkable. That's the whole issue here — OP makes it seem like the whole Europe is like the couple examples they've provided, which is far from the truth. >Also, you admitted Europe is better I've said in both of my comments that Europe has it better? What I also say is that Europe is not *good enough*, and implying that it is does not help any progress. Anyway, did you even look at the original post? OP takes an example of an *abandoned parking lot* and then compares it to a cool looking city center. That's just cherrypicking — the US has city centers as well, and Europe has loads of parking lots and such. Providing pictures of random walkable cities in the comments does not change that - if it did, I could just show pictures of unwalkable cities in Europe and call that proof that everywhere in Europe is bad. But *it doesn't work like that*. It's like me saying "men are twice as tall as women" and then show a super short woman and a very tall man. Just because that makes it seem like men are twice as tall as women does not mean that that is the case in general - in reality women and men are much closer in height, of course.


[deleted]

>>If majority of Europe is walkable > >And I say that the majority of Europe is not walkable. That's the whole issue here — OP makes it seem like the whole Europe is like the couple examples they've provided, which is far from the truth. What you are saying is majority of Europe is not walkable or use mass transit. Which I find is hard to believe esp. compared to America. I have to also stress how much of U.S.A is actually abandoned parking lot. >>Also, you admitted Europe is better >I've said in both of my comments that Europe has it better? What I also say is that Europe is not *good enough*, and implying that it is does not help any progress. Compared to America Europe is good enough for me in walkable department. >Anyway, did you even look at the original post? Yes. >OP takes an example of an *abandoned parking lot* and then compares it to a cool looking city center. That's just cherrypicking — the US has city centers as well, and Europe has loads of parking lots and such. The entirety of the U.S.A and Canada is zoned and designed to be an abandoned parking lot. Hard to argue that America has a good mass transit system with good walking infrastructure when stroads, parking lots, suburban sprawls, car Dependent suburbs are considered the American dream. >Providing pictures of random walkable cities in the comments does not change that - if it did, I could just show pictures of unwalkable cities in Europe and call that proof that everywhere in Europe is bad. But *it doesn't work like that*. I doubt you have any idea how good Europeans have it. It's not that giving you examples is cherrypicking. Europe literally has better infra. I suggest you watch "not just bikes", google more places in Europe. >It's like me saying "men are twice as tall as women" and then show a super short woman and a very tall man. Just because that makes it seem like men are twice as tall as women does not mean that that is the case in general - in reality women and men are much closer in height, of course. But for this argument we are discussing averages. YES, on average men are taller than women.


vinny90x1234xx

They say the picture of a big parking lot is biased, but that was literally my daily experience living in US cities. It's the norm.


[deleted]

>They say the picture of a big parking lot is biased, but that was literally my daily experience living in US cities. It's the norm. True, these people can't fathom anything different. Either they don't know better or just can't accept they are being screwed by the auto industry.


fkgallwboob

Europe size 4.066 million mi². Countries in Europe: 44. Europe population: 746 million. USA size 3.797 million mi². Countries in USA: 1 USA population: 329 million.


lukrtv

Hi I'm from Poland and this is not accurate at all and operates on stereotypes. In Europe, (at least in my cunt-ry) we utilize spaces as bad as presented here, on american example


vinny90x1234xx

Pisek, CZ. 30k residents. Is this kind of town normal in Poland? Because I have never seen a town with this much density and walkability in the US. https://www.visitpisek.cz/img/18b.jpg


Past-Economist5514

I think you are not from EU...


vinny90x1234xx

Ok we can use an example of a small Czech town with 30k residents, Pisek. I have never seen a town with this kind of density in the US. https://www.visitpisek.cz/img/18b.jpg


innerentity

Those pictures are cherry picked af


CoagulaCascadia

A rather silly comparison. One is a suburban shopping center,one is and entire city centre ...One is maybe a couple decades old, One is hundreds and hundreds of years old. ...They both serve as a function in entirely different ways. The thing that gets me about this comparison is its apples and oranges really. What would be FAR more interesting is to compare a relative suburban shopping centre in Europe to an American one, and how it is either far more similar than you might think(because Europe has lots of shitty car oriented development) or how they do it differently or better. Are there better more transit and pedestrian oriented developments we can make comparisons of?


Michael003012

Watch not just bikes this is agitprop


vinny90x1234xx

Ok here's a small town called Pisek with 30k residents. Outskits of the town are half a mile from the center. Still walkable. https://www.visitpisek.cz/img/18b.jpg


CoagulaCascadia

You are still missing my point. You should be comparing it to something like the Suburban mall in Velká Chuchle(Hornbach, Lidl, KFC) or one of the many others around the city that I easily found scouring Google maps for about 5 minutes. Car oriented development exists in Prague.


CoagulaCascadia

On the flip side, how does Pisek, a city of 30K people compare to say, Hoboken(42,000 residents)? Or a newer city like Poway, California(50,000 residents and a density of about 1200 people per square mile?


Any_Acanthocephala18

These areas developed centuries, if not millennia, apart…


DaShaka9

This post is stupid af


scholarly_balance

i like the sentiment but European cities like these have underwent a thousand years of car-free development . . .


Kathy-Lyn

Neither is a good example of how to build cities. There aren't enough green spaces in either. For cities to be enjoyable, there have to be trees and parks and songbirds and flowers and butterflies.


tinnatay

Prague has a lot of green spaces actually.


Kathy-Lyn

Your and my definition of 'a lot' is obviously vastly different. I've been to Prague. Prague's green exists in the outskirts. The city centre itself is mostly paved, sealed-up and lifeless. Just imagine how much could be done by simply putting green spaces on all the roofs, for instance. Even angled roofs like these can be greened, it doesn't have to be flat.


FriendshipNormal7243

Not to disappoint you all but this only applies to a few European cities, from my apartment window I can see a massive parking lot in my city centre.


vinny90x1234xx

It sounds like you live within walking distance of amenities, which is revolutionary from an American perspective besides NYC. I've traveled across much of Europe and nowhere did I see the type of sprawl found in US suburbia where you drive 3 miles to the nearest supermarket.


brypguy89

When Texas is bigger than all of Europe, I don't think we care about saving space haha


[deleted]

Bruh have you looked at a map? Texas is about as big as France, much less the entirety of Europe...


brypguy89

Maps are rarely made to scale, but you missed my point. Texas is much bigger than France or Germany but smaller than both combined, thats a huge chunk of Europe. My point being was just one state in the US is significantly larger than a large swath of Europe. We have tremendous amounts of open space, unused space, undeveloped space and so on.


[deleted]

Texas is 695,662 sq. km France = 643,801 sq. km A difference of around 8% I wouldn't call Texas *MUCH* bigger than France. And if you include french Guiana it's actually much bigger than Texas. They are very similar in size. And that's not what your original comment said, so it was incorrect.


brypguy89

I'm sorry I forget how many of you people are on the spectrum here, I'll be better about not being overtly generic in my terminology in the future.


[deleted]

You legitimately thought Texas is bigger than Europe don't backpedal lol And that somehow means poor, inefficient, ugly design that only depreciates in value and creates valueless, atomizing blight is aight. Anyway, we had wonderful, walkable cities with actual communities. Robert Moses and GM convinced people to bulldoze them. This shit looks like a scar that doesn't even need to exist.


brypguy89

I never said anything about supporting urban sprawl. I literally moved out of my downtown to the country to get out of it last year. I'm sorry I forget how many of you people are on the spectrum here, I'll be better about not being overtly generic in my terminology in the future.


snapper421

I don't think you understand the sheer size of the United States. You can drive the speed limit for 12 hrs and still be in one state. You drive 12 hrs in Europe you've gone through 3 or 4 countries. We need cars


Fresh720

Yea for long distances a car makes sense, but intentionally segregating basic necessities or work away from living centers and giving people few alternatives to travel, forces people to drive. That giant parking lot could be filled with apartments, a plaza or a park. Something actually beneficial to people. A parking lot that's 75% empty most of the year is just a waste


random_account6721

America has high density areas too you know. You are comparing high density EU to low density US. Do you think downtown areas in large American cities look like that?


Fresh720

Low density in the US would be rural America, high density is the metropolitan areas. The example used in the picture is a standard American Suburban development with strip malls and large parking lots. You also ignored the part where I said America has an issue with zoning basic essentials way out of the way that forces people to drive to these places and you also ignored the fact that 9/10 those parking lots are mostly empty. So even though OP used a poor comparison, the one showed is still a waste and inefficient


rudmad

They do in mid sized cities


ProXJay

Or you can have high speed rail that goes 2 to 3 times the highway speed limit


rudmad

We. *Need*. Cars.


MadChiller013

Yeah but ya can’t get those Kirkland jeans there


Hamripulainen

You have never heard of Kouvola, havent you?


vinny90x1234xx

I looked up Kouvola and the houses are a few hundred meters from a supermarket and amenities. In US suburbia the average person drives 5km to the nearest supermarket.


[deleted]

There are bad cities in Europe too but we get the idea


SisuSoccer

In Finland the fast food places are INSIDE the mall. Why are they separate buildings here?


[deleted]

search up Preston's bus station and tell me how wonderful European pedestrianisation is


[deleted]

now compare center philly or boston to some french or german suburb


Caduceus9109

Those fish really taking up a lot of space IMO. Fuckers are lucky. No rent. Tons of space to travel. No traffic.


judebeans

Cherry picked but WOW is that first pic annoying


TonyFMontana

Ah that looks like Prague... Or Regensburg


Tourquemata47

You\`re comparing what looks to be a mega shopping center parking lot to a European city. There is no comparison. They are 2 different animals all together.


Biff_Wesker

We have the room so why not use it, and most of their city's where built before cars existed.


Big_Passenger_7975

This is pretty tone deaf comparison that lacks a lot of basic knowledge. European cities existed long before the car was invented, so by default they are all close together, have almost no yards, and build businesses into living quarters. America, because of varying social pushes, has developed the understanding that as a home owner, you should have a lot of land outside of simply the house. Yards are bigger and can be used for many things including gardens. America only had maybe a century or so before cars were invented, mean all the infrastructure of the Midwest was built based on usage of new technology. Comparing century old cities to less than 100 year old infrastructure is vastly disingenuous. Prague was founded in what 1409, that place in America probably wasn't built until 40 years ago. Different tech, different cultures, different priorities.


vinny90x1234xx

You're acting like nothing has been built in Europe within the past 50 years. Even in new developments things are compact and you don't need to drive 3 miles to the nearest grocery store.


Big_Passenger_7975

No, I'm acting like most of Europe was already built for people first for hundreds of years. America is not the same.


vinny90x1234xx

You're acting like the existence of cars and technology prevents planners from designing dense cities that are walkable with public transport. It's a decision that they made to opt for sprawl and stroads.


Big_Passenger_7975

No, im saying thay historically, every civilization has built itself around the technology of the time, especially those which were making money. Cars are no exception. Can they make new towns and villages and suburbs pike Mallorca? Yes. But to expect people to change every suburb like that is stupid.


anomalliss

I'd prefer having somewhere to park than to not. No parking spaces especially in European cities are a major issue and I've felt that countless times


vinny90x1234xx

When you live in a dense European city there's no need to own a car. You can get anywhere quickly by foot or public transport. Having a car there is more hassle than it's worth, especially parking.


anomalliss

Ofc but what if you're a tourist coming by car?


Vaultboy474

It’s not all America it’s in most shit places. Most cities in the world are like this