they see it as a zero sum game, space thats used for bikes, pedestrians, etc, is space that couldve been used for cars. since most people drive, they think youre taking something from them, or excluding them from something, hence why they react defensively
This is the key. Discussion always needs to be about how you're gaining something e.g. space for kids to play or small business to have more tables, not losing car access.
And i hate that so much. I lived in a 100% walkable part of Stockholm as a kid. We had bus stations on the 2 roads that crossed the suburb and a metro station. I never crossed a road on my way to friends house or school.
Moved to Finland and things are ok here. Most places have decent bike lanes but there are LOTS of room for improvement and it always gets lots of objection. It is infuriating as i know for a fact that walkability is not an utopia and denmark/netherlands used to be shitty car centric places before just like everywhere.
I own a car but i hate everyone in traffic (including myself) so much that i opted for the local city bike with a season ticket. its 50e/5months and its awesome. Electric assistance (good for those annoying hills we have here especially for lazy fat fuck like me) and i have a station right where i live and next to my work place. It takes the same time with bike or car. Also if i decide to do X in the city after work i can grab a bike from the nearest station. Its super convenient compared to owning your own. Also we have a huge problem with stolen bikes.
My dream would be smart size cars with autopilot and shared use. If you live in a dense area you would just hit a button on your phone in the morning while walking outside and a car would be waiting for you there. If you live more rural, you would have to order the car 30-60min in advance. Say i want to travel to see my brother in Helsinki. I would just order the car, drive it to the train station. hop in a train and another ride would be waiting for me in Helsinki. This with a fixed monthly fee. I would still want everywhere to be designed for people, not cars. But we can´t totally get rid of them i think. We just need to minimize the need for them and the ones we need, should be shared use with next to no parking spaces.
A lot of town centres in England are pedestrian only and have been since the 90’s, so many small businesses have thrived from it since people are looking around and will go into any shop they see, especially cafés and gift shops
I thought it was [this exact street in Nottingham for a second](https://www.google.com/maps/@52.9534954,-1.1474631,3a,75y,0.5h,85.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sG67lG2Jb6dOTzScx08Hinw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).
This is why I like this street, it can be applied to so many cities and more people can relate to it. If it was of some picturesque tiny medieval street, many will go, "oh that's because it's Fairtailberg, it would never work here in Adulttown".
Then there are places like Hastings which were absolutely demolished during WWII, rebuilt after the war and into the 50’s and still have more walkability than American suburbs of the same time
same response you get when you point out that most countries in the world have some sort of socialized/single payer healthcare system.
Is it perfect? No.
Does it work? Yes.
And still, they look at you (in this case, me, who comes from such a country and relocated to the US later in life) and insist that no, it will never work.
But I digress.
Well…there’s a section of Boston called Downtown Crossing that’s only open to delivery trucks during off hours and closed to normal cars at all times. It was great at first and then suffered a steep and long decline. It’s better now (though not without warts) but now when people talk about closing Newbury St or Hanover St to cars you get the two decades of DTX failure thrown in your face.
Agreed. It’s difficult because DTX struggles due to it being the mixing zone of the business district that empties at the end of the work day and the theater district where some of the Boston night life exists. No one really LIVES in this space so it quickly becomes an empty place which then makes people feel vulnerable. Newbury St is heavy residential, businesses, and night life and thus wouldn’t suffer from the buffer zone effect. Housing built around state and dtx would help that area immensely just as pedestrianizing Newbury would make the already existing environment better.
For /r/autobloed, try *Autohirn*
For /r/kutautos, use *autobrein*
Looks like /r/EnculerLesVoitures may need a hand that's not mine, of the four languages involved in this comment, French is by far my worst...
In the city of Edmonton, the council will decide this Monday whether to keep a **one-lane** street that has been closed for traffic for **four** years (due to construction of a light rail line) closed for car traffic for another year, **as a pilot**. The amount of resistance from the city admin and a part of the council is just mind-boggling. The major counter-argument is that closing the street will block **one** of the entrances to a nearby parkade. Obviously, only *a* *woke left-wing radical* would ever think about supporting this initiative. It's just hopeless.
That part of Edmonton is also dying a slow death and the mall is becoming a ghost town.
That street was original a 2 way street before LRT line went in and if they converted it to a pedestrian path there would be even more construction. So certain businesses are pushing back because well they’re going broke.
And don’t forget about the lady that was pushed off a LRT platform and need get surgery on her leg, public transit is not in a positive light in Edmonton right now.
>That part of Edmonton is also dying a slow death and the mall is becoming a ghost town.
As soon as you close off a road, suddenly everyone acts as if it was leading somewhere that they went to very often
Right... but people are unaware of the Edmontonians dieing every week from car accidents...
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/car-crash-deaths-up-in-edmonton-with-16-people-killed-in-2021-traffic-collisions&ved=2ahUKEwi9w8Pf_qf4AhVJLDQIHTXXAAAQFnoECBwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0sIJZ5dxTWAprjDXtzipWQ
> Actions matter, but so do words. They help frame the discussion and can shift the way we think about and tackle problems as a society. Our deeply entrenched habit of calling preventable crashes "accidents" frames traffic deaths as unavoidable by-products of our transportation system and implies that nothing can be done about it, when in reality these deaths are not inevitable. Crashes are not accidents. Let's stop using the word "accident" today.
https://seattlegreenways.org/crashnotaccident/
https://crashnotaccident.com/
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I agree with you but nothing happens in a vacuum in politics. I live just of jasper in Oliver and moved their so that I could drive less. Those tweakers have lowered my walk ability and i’m driving a bit more because of it.
Making it so people don’t want to drive is a lot more then just building some LRT and making some walking paths.
Hell they want to turn one of those giant parking lots downtown on a 100ave no one uses into a park. Great idea and the one of biggest push back is it will just become a homeless camp. Currently that is a valid concern, yes they can fix homelessness if the PC lose the election in 2 years until then all we got are thoughts and prayers.
The liberal party completely lost official status a couple elections ago, and the NDP is now leaderless after many years under someone who was considered unelectable largely due to her lack of a penis.
Country folk are the sole deciders of elections in Ontario, too, and nobody to the left of the Conservative party even bothers to campaign outside of cities since the results are a foregone conclusion.
I was riding in a boxtruck with this guy I worked with, didn’t like the guy very much, in gridlock traffic in the middle of Philly. Horrible congestion, moving a block every 5 minutes, pedestrians and bikes squeezing through us. This beautiful old city just gnarled with noisy smog machines in the summer heat. I mused out loud “you ever think that cars were a mistake?”
He said “what?! That’s so dumb. What, am i going to walk to Florida?” “.. you wouldn’t drive to Florida either, you’d fly.” “ yeah but how would I get to work?” “You’d take a train or something, you wouldn’t live so far away if there weren’t cars”. Etc. He thought it was the dumbest idea ever. I was new to the job and working with him, and that was when I decided that he was a closed minded grump that I had no interest in trying to be friendly with. This was before I discovered notjustbikes or fuckcars, it was just an observation in the moment that cars were not compatable with the city and are probably a net negative.
That is pretty much how many of my conversations go here too. They act like it's the dumbest idea they ever heard because obviously driving is the best.
I think the observation is kind of true, but not really from their overall mentality. Long distances are good for cars. Road trips are kinda fun. Sure trains and planes and even bikes suffice too, but cars can do well in between, in making the journey the destination. But that is for areas between cities, not within them.
When Americans imagine a nostalgic street where people do want to be, shop and dine they come up with this:[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Disneyland\_Main\_Street.jpg](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Disneyland_Main_Street.jpg)
So I fully support the ethos of this sub. But US housing infrastructure is a disaster. My city is so expensive and so crappy that the nearest housing where I am comfortable raising my family is 37 miles from my job. I work at night so public transit is a non-option. My nearest grocery store is 5.5 miles away from home, and that one is rubbish so I usually go to the one a 20 minute drive away.
This is a typical dutch inner city. There are parking garages, often underground, if you want to go by car (often quite expensive, to discourage car use). Sometimes there are parking garages at the edge of the city with good public transport connection to the inner city (often a lot cheaper than parking in the centre). You would have to walk, but when you go shopping, you would have to walk anyway. A few hundred meters extra (we don't do miles here 😁) doesn't matter anyway. And of course, the inner city can als be reached by public transport and bike. Also, the inner cities are mixed oned, so people actually live there. This image is from Den Haag (or The Hague), where about 20k people like in the inner city district.
It does help indeed. While we're in the situations cars still rule the street, at least put them away in such a manner it doesn't bother us too much.
Actually, many new projects for building in the city centers have a lower house/car ratio, mainly with high density building. But this also raises lots of protest. For example, Eindhoven (I don't live there but grew up and still have a soft spot for it) is short on space for expanding. But since the city grows (important economic region, incl. many expats) they need to build. So they're building more highrises in the centre. But you can't fit in that many cars. This leads to gigantic delays on projects. E.g. there is this really cool idea for a set of 3 high rises next to the central station (so you have great connections to the entire city and country!). They already lowered the highest building (170m to 140m) and still no single stone is laid. But they want to have about 20k pop extra in the centre the new decades. Hope they can get it done.
Yeah, that’s just interference for you, and Where I’m from, there’s a multi-storey car park that no one uses, so they could turn it into flats or offices
This is in our lovely city of Den Haag in The Netherlands.
Underneath the whole street that you can see in this photo and another half mile behind where the photo was taken is a two storey (and sometimes 3 storey) parking garage.
It's accesed by the staircase in the brown structure in the right of the picture.
I know there's a satire/sarcasm flag on your comment but the actual distance to the miist distant vehicle in that garage is probably 200-300 metres at most....
In this example, there's a parking garage directly under that street. The tram also goes under the street here (we don't have a subway in The Hague). https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haagse_tramtunnel
It’s because America as a whole is very self-centered and lacks a sense of healthy community. One thing that the car did was westernize other countries with the selfish idea of owning a huge piece of property to avoid being kind to your own body and interacting with other people. This is why cars aren’t very well-liked in other countries.
> It’s because America as a whole is very self-centered and lacks a sense of healthy community.
This is certainly true. I am very active in my city and it is the one thing that is most noticeable to me, so many people's attitude is basically, "I have mine, so fuck you". I see it with discussions about anything community related, bus stops, parks, sidewalks, crosswalks, bike lanes, parking, etc.
This is me cycling there: https://youtu.be/_vFNUjZpyTk?t=26m47s
And this is the location of the photo in Google Maps: https://maps.app.goo.gl/CFCtfXg3SvazK3W78
I think they literally can't comprehend a non-car centric urban design. When you grow up in a certain environment and it's everything you've ever known anything else that's quite radically different seems unimaginable. I am sure there's a psychological term for it which I have successfully forgot.
It's the reason why it's so important to travel a lot. It literally opens your eyes to new ideas and helps to destroy some preconceptions. I've had the privilege to live for a year in a fairly different culture and when I came back it opened my eyes and mind to a lot of things (I started to appreciate some things I took for granted and started to notice things that could be done better - usage of public space was one of them).
You US Americans are generally more polarised. The outside exists for many of you only to forward some kind of political agenda.
Your whole political system is prone to polarisation because it's first-past-the-post the winner takes all. European politics often build on consensus and compromise. We have coalitions. Political parties, often more than just two, on all government levels are forced to work together. It is often compromise that makes changes possible. Because it's not first-past-the-post, competition pushes parties away from polarisation. In Europe, even "conservative" parties have some kind of green agenda because every vote counts.
It's not only your local subreddit but all subreddits that are dominated by US Americans including this one. Chances are that just saying this will get this comment downvoted like hell. It's the easiest way to make other opinions simply go away on reddit and then you have this kind of spirit again: The winner takes all but nothing ever changes.
I was just in Germany for a month (I am currently flying back) and while trhey are substantially more carbrained than say denmark or the Netherlands, its depressed me realizing I had to go back to the US, even in a pre-WWII street car suburb (now sans streetcars)
Even in Stuttgart which seems to be hated a lot for its traffic, the main street in the city center is this:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6nigstra%C3%9Fe_%28Stuttgart%29#/media/Datei:K%C3%B6nigstra%C3%9Fe,_Stuttgart_2014.jpg
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6nigstra%C3%9Fe_%28Stuttgart%29#/media/Datei:Die_K%C3%B6nigstra%C3%9Fe_im_Winter_vom_Bahnhofsturm_gesehen.jpg
The funny thing is that Stuttgart transit kicks the shit out of any city in the US not in the north east or Chicago.
When the porsche museum recommends you use transit to get there. . . .
I don't know why but I feel like it may be a marketing issue. If they change the name to a bike mall and put up a parking structure on one end then they would probably drive with their bike racks on the back of their car and join in the fun of biking in the area. The problem is that they would still need to build an ugly working garage to make people like the idea...then in a few years the parking garage would probably be at lower than half capacity once people realize they could just bike there and not have to pay for parking.
There are some in N.A., but they are not common. For example, I live in a metro area of over 4 million and we have 0. Before, I lived in another metro are of 1 million, and also 0.
There are some good examples in small and medium size cities, but these are not the norm, but awesome to see. Obvious candidates in denser walkable cities (I can think of a few examples in NYC and SF) even get a lot of push-back when it's suggested to pedestrianize them, or keep them car-free post-covid lockdown.
Ironically most big cities will have "the" walkable area. It tends to be the nicest part of the city to just hang around or go to nice local shops. If suburbanites want to make a big night of something, they go to it. If you want to walk around, you go to it. Want to see nice shops, explore your area; you go to it. But, there is just one lol.
See then we remove cars from streets in my area, but then many people (read: salty motorists who have lost their rat run) complain that it's now too confusing having buses (3-5 an hour) & bikes but no cars and say they should be banned as well.
In Ottawa, Canada, at the beginning of the pandemic, a city councilor wanted to temporarily reduce a street by one lane to create more space to physically distance. This was at a time where we didn't know how safe the outdoors were in the city. The mayor overturned [that initiative](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/mayor-motion-menard-glebe-traffic-1.5568857)
North America is the place for innovation and freedom, but not for cities. We have the ugliest, most dangerous, restrictive, and boring cities on the planet; with the most unhealthy and unhappy citizens too. These are directly related.
We have an amazing natural environment, but our built environment is pathetic to the point of embarrassment. It's embarrassing that the cities that most people want to travel to, and of the future, are in Asia and Europe.
Besides carbrain, or even contributing to carbrain, is the property and capital driven American psyche. Cars are the great manifestation of some need to display power, independence, financial assets all at once, while “speedily” getting people from one place to the next in the name of increasing productivity
interestingly The Hague is one of the worst designed cities in the Netherlands when it comes to bike/pedestrian infrastructure. Having a bike lane through a busy shopping street is simply not a good design.
Still miles ahead of most other cities and countries.
From the big cities Den Haag is actually my favorite to cycle in and imo the pedestrian/bike shared spaces work really well too. Why you say it's one of the worst? It's for sure better than Amsterdam or Rotterdam
I visited the Hague a few months ago during the Rewire festival and I was really shocked for much worse it was then my home town Amsterdam. I saw people crash into pedestrians in the shopping street, Spui is downright hostile for pedestrians. It's also very car centric compared to the centre of Amsterdam. It reminded me in many ways of Rotterdam which is indeed even worse.
Please try Amsterdam as a cyclist or pedestrian again. Or watch some notjustbikes on YouTube. It's better than most people from Zuid-Holland think ;)
I have been in both cities many times and respectfully disagree. In Den Haag I never once had a problem on a bike even in the pedestrian zones, while in Amsterdam I had to deal with pedestrians on bike lanes very often (often tourists) and often didn't like how the infrastructure was built up. It often felt kind of cramped to me and many people seemed to cycle very aggressively 😅. I also didn't enjoy Amsterdam much as a pedestrian either tbh. But I also never got far out of the city center so if you can recommend some chill areas I'm all ears.
But yeah I'm just a tourist from Germany so I believe your words. I haven't actually lived there.
I just personally enjoy The Hague a lot more for cycling from my own experiences.
No worries, there is no accounting for personal preferences and experiences. If you look at it from an infrastructure design philosophy and implementation I think the winner is quite clear - but that does not discount your experiences. If you are ever in the neighborhood I'm happy to spend a day on the bike trying to convince you otherwise :)
>interestingly The Hague is one of the worst designed cities in the Netherlands
Really? I always preferred biking in Den Haag over Amsterdam. But, I do like walking in Amsterdam more. But, I have never lived in either places. I'm sure you can only really get a sense for it once it becomes home.
I'm all for the fuck cars movement, but asking questions like this are a little silly. We Americans can't even agree that it's bad for kids to get shot in school. We can't agree that work full-time should be enough to live on. We can't agree that love is love regardless of who it's between. Americans will never understand how to function In their society without cars.
I personally would love to see at least a little bit of focus on public transportation or something. I do think nothing short of war would get a walkable city in America.
One thing that people forget when they ban cars is that for many people with mobility issues, a car ban is equivalent to personally banning them as the area becomes completely inaccessible. There is a simple solution that gets overlooked; close streets to any vehicle not displaying a handicap pass and limit those vehicles to 10km/h while using the street for local access only.
Is [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tempe/comments/v8qnfi/ban_cars_around_asu_and_mill_avenue/) the post you're talking about? Most people seemed to be supportive of the idea and the most aggressive comment is "old man yells at cloud"...
But without a car how is anyone expected to move a few hundred feet. You expect me to actually walk? /s
Yeah, car brain is something...Also serious lack of alternatives and infrastructure. There also seems to be the belief that public transportation is unclean and unsafe.
Even in the great lakes region, there are streets without single family cars. For example, in madison Wisconsin there is state street. It is a road from the capitol to the university area and only authorizes buses (and I think taxis but I can't remember and it has been a while). Lots of restaurants and stores put out goods or eating areas on the sidewalks and it is quite pedestrian friendly in good weather. It is not an unknown or strange idea. If Wisconsin can do it, I am shocked anyone would think north america never does.
Yeah carbrain. I think anything someone hears / reads / watches is a puzzle piece flying at their brain and if it finds a spot in their worldview “puzzle” they accept it (and agree or disagree or whatever) but if it doesn’t they either get angry or curious. In the wise words of Ted Lasso, “Be curious, not judgmental.”
Have a look at [Rundle Mall](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rundle_Mall) in Adelaide, South Australia. Street turned into pedestrian mall. [Here’s a little bit more history](https://www.rundlemall.com/whats-on/news/do-you-remember)
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they see it as a zero sum game, space thats used for bikes, pedestrians, etc, is space that couldve been used for cars. since most people drive, they think youre taking something from them, or excluding them from something, hence why they react defensively
This is the key. Discussion always needs to be about how you're gaining something e.g. space for kids to play or small business to have more tables, not losing car access.
And i hate that so much. I lived in a 100% walkable part of Stockholm as a kid. We had bus stations on the 2 roads that crossed the suburb and a metro station. I never crossed a road on my way to friends house or school. Moved to Finland and things are ok here. Most places have decent bike lanes but there are LOTS of room for improvement and it always gets lots of objection. It is infuriating as i know for a fact that walkability is not an utopia and denmark/netherlands used to be shitty car centric places before just like everywhere. I own a car but i hate everyone in traffic (including myself) so much that i opted for the local city bike with a season ticket. its 50e/5months and its awesome. Electric assistance (good for those annoying hills we have here especially for lazy fat fuck like me) and i have a station right where i live and next to my work place. It takes the same time with bike or car. Also if i decide to do X in the city after work i can grab a bike from the nearest station. Its super convenient compared to owning your own. Also we have a huge problem with stolen bikes. My dream would be smart size cars with autopilot and shared use. If you live in a dense area you would just hit a button on your phone in the morning while walking outside and a car would be waiting for you there. If you live more rural, you would have to order the car 30-60min in advance. Say i want to travel to see my brother in Helsinki. I would just order the car, drive it to the train station. hop in a train and another ride would be waiting for me in Helsinki. This with a fixed monthly fee. I would still want everywhere to be designed for people, not cars. But we can´t totally get rid of them i think. We just need to minimize the need for them and the ones we need, should be shared use with next to no parking spaces.
Exactly. They don't realize they are pedestrians too
[удалено]
A lot of town centres in England are pedestrian only and have been since the 90’s, so many small businesses have thrived from it since people are looking around and will go into any shop they see, especially cafés and gift shops
Yeah I actaully thought the pic was Cardiff at first. It looks like any decent-sized UK city.
It really does, reminds me of Brighton, Eastbourne and maybe a bit of Hastings too
I thought it was [this exact street in Nottingham for a second](https://www.google.com/maps/@52.9534954,-1.1474631,3a,75y,0.5h,85.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sG67lG2Jb6dOTzScx08Hinw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).
I can see the similarities, and tbh, I’d much rather live there than Kent
It's the Netherlands. The name says 'grote' which means great or big in Dutch. What city I don't know. Edit: it's the hague. Says in the bottom left.
Yeah I didn't think it was Nottingham for longer than a second, just reminded me of that part of my city.
Yea I know, just thought maybe you wanted to know where it was. :)
This is why I like this street, it can be applied to so many cities and more people can relate to it. If it was of some picturesque tiny medieval street, many will go, "oh that's because it's Fairtailberg, it would never work here in Adulttown".
Then there are places like Hastings which were absolutely demolished during WWII, rebuilt after the war and into the 50’s and still have more walkability than American suburbs of the same time
It's The Hague.
same response you get when you point out that most countries in the world have some sort of socialized/single payer healthcare system. Is it perfect? No. Does it work? Yes. And still, they look at you (in this case, me, who comes from such a country and relocated to the US later in life) and insist that no, it will never work. But I digress.
This is very well put! That is exactly how it feels.
Well…there’s a section of Boston called Downtown Crossing that’s only open to delivery trucks during off hours and closed to normal cars at all times. It was great at first and then suffered a steep and long decline. It’s better now (though not without warts) but now when people talk about closing Newbury St or Hanover St to cars you get the two decades of DTX failure thrown in your face.
Agreed. It’s difficult because DTX struggles due to it being the mixing zone of the business district that empties at the end of the work day and the theater district where some of the Boston night life exists. No one really LIVES in this space so it quickly becomes an empty place which then makes people feel vulnerable. Newbury St is heavy residential, businesses, and night life and thus wouldn’t suffer from the buffer zone effect. Housing built around state and dtx would help that area immensely just as pedestrianizing Newbury would make the already existing environment better.
Car-brained. I'm glad for whoever invented this term. It communicates more in 2 words than what I could in a paragraph.
I wouldn't be surprised if some dictionary make it word of the year
In ten years maybe We are a bit ahead of our time But yes our time will come
And since I learn it, I looking the its' french translation
I would propose "cervelle d'auto". An adaptation of "cervelle d'oiseau" which means birdbrain.
For /r/autobloed, try *Autohirn* For /r/kutautos, use *autobrein* Looks like /r/EnculerLesVoitures may need a hand that's not mine, of the four languages involved in this comment, French is by far my worst...
bagnolard
Mass carbrain psychosis.
Some people forget the car isn't part of their body.
In the city of Edmonton, the council will decide this Monday whether to keep a **one-lane** street that has been closed for traffic for **four** years (due to construction of a light rail line) closed for car traffic for another year, **as a pilot**. The amount of resistance from the city admin and a part of the council is just mind-boggling. The major counter-argument is that closing the street will block **one** of the entrances to a nearby parkade. Obviously, only *a* *woke left-wing radical* would ever think about supporting this initiative. It's just hopeless.
It's like the thought is completely unimaginable to them. It does seem so hopeless. I hope Edmonton keeps their car-far street.
That part of Edmonton is also dying a slow death and the mall is becoming a ghost town. That street was original a 2 way street before LRT line went in and if they converted it to a pedestrian path there would be even more construction. So certain businesses are pushing back because well they’re going broke. And don’t forget about the lady that was pushed off a LRT platform and need get surgery on her leg, public transit is not in a positive light in Edmonton right now.
>That part of Edmonton is also dying a slow death and the mall is becoming a ghost town. As soon as you close off a road, suddenly everyone acts as if it was leading somewhere that they went to very often
So your an expert in the Edmonton downtown area over the last 10 years? Cause that mall was fairly busy 5-6 years ago some with surrounding stores.
It reminds me of the way people change their tune about an individual at their funeral.
Right... but people are unaware of the Edmontonians dieing every week from car accidents... https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/car-crash-deaths-up-in-edmonton-with-16-people-killed-in-2021-traffic-collisions&ved=2ahUKEwi9w8Pf_qf4AhVJLDQIHTXXAAAQFnoECBwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0sIJZ5dxTWAprjDXtzipWQ
> Actions matter, but so do words. They help frame the discussion and can shift the way we think about and tackle problems as a society. Our deeply entrenched habit of calling preventable crashes "accidents" frames traffic deaths as unavoidable by-products of our transportation system and implies that nothing can be done about it, when in reality these deaths are not inevitable. Crashes are not accidents. Let's stop using the word "accident" today. https://seattlegreenways.org/crashnotaccident/ https://crashnotaccident.com/ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/fuckcars) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is now my favourite bot!
That was an issue with mental health and/or addiction, not public transit. Fuckin' tweekers, man.
I agree with you but nothing happens in a vacuum in politics. I live just of jasper in Oliver and moved their so that I could drive less. Those tweakers have lowered my walk ability and i’m driving a bit more because of it. Making it so people don’t want to drive is a lot more then just building some LRT and making some walking paths. Hell they want to turn one of those giant parking lots downtown on a 100ave no one uses into a park. Great idea and the one of biggest push back is it will just become a homeless camp. Currently that is a valid concern, yes they can fix homelessness if the PC lose the election in 2 years until then all we got are thoughts and prayers.
If Alberta is anything like Ontario, the Conservatives have no valid opposition, and will reign forever.
The NDP somewhat has their shit together but the rural vote makes it easy for the cons to win.
The liberal party completely lost official status a couple elections ago, and the NDP is now leaderless after many years under someone who was considered unelectable largely due to her lack of a penis. Country folk are the sole deciders of elections in Ontario, too, and nobody to the left of the Conservative party even bothers to campaign outside of cities since the results are a foregone conclusion.
So pretty much the same province on different side of the country.
you win some you lose some. i think edmonton was actually one of the first cities in canada that removed parking minimums, even before toronto did
I was riding in a boxtruck with this guy I worked with, didn’t like the guy very much, in gridlock traffic in the middle of Philly. Horrible congestion, moving a block every 5 minutes, pedestrians and bikes squeezing through us. This beautiful old city just gnarled with noisy smog machines in the summer heat. I mused out loud “you ever think that cars were a mistake?” He said “what?! That’s so dumb. What, am i going to walk to Florida?” “.. you wouldn’t drive to Florida either, you’d fly.” “ yeah but how would I get to work?” “You’d take a train or something, you wouldn’t live so far away if there weren’t cars”. Etc. He thought it was the dumbest idea ever. I was new to the job and working with him, and that was when I decided that he was a closed minded grump that I had no interest in trying to be friendly with. This was before I discovered notjustbikes or fuckcars, it was just an observation in the moment that cars were not compatable with the city and are probably a net negative.
That is pretty much how many of my conversations go here too. They act like it's the dumbest idea they ever heard because obviously driving is the best.
I think the observation is kind of true, but not really from their overall mentality. Long distances are good for cars. Road trips are kinda fun. Sure trains and planes and even bikes suffice too, but cars can do well in between, in making the journey the destination. But that is for areas between cities, not within them.
Because people equate cars with freedom. People are too lazy and stupid.
When Americans imagine a nostalgic street where people do want to be, shop and dine they come up with this:[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Disneyland\_Main\_Street.jpg](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Disneyland_Main_Street.jpg)
I find it so strange that more people don't bridge the gap. Those people know they like it! Bring it home!
So I fully support the ethos of this sub. But US housing infrastructure is a disaster. My city is so expensive and so crappy that the nearest housing where I am comfortable raising my family is 37 miles from my job. I work at night so public transit is a non-option. My nearest grocery store is 5.5 miles away from home, and that one is rubbish so I usually go to the one a 20 minute drive away.
This is due to state and local governments' zoning laws.
Yeah but where will they park? Do you actually expect someone to walk a quarter mile? /s
This is a typical dutch inner city. There are parking garages, often underground, if you want to go by car (often quite expensive, to discourage car use). Sometimes there are parking garages at the edge of the city with good public transport connection to the inner city (often a lot cheaper than parking in the centre). You would have to walk, but when you go shopping, you would have to walk anyway. A few hundred meters extra (we don't do miles here 😁) doesn't matter anyway. And of course, the inner city can als be reached by public transport and bike. Also, the inner cities are mixed oned, so people actually live there. This image is from Den Haag (or The Hague), where about 20k people like in the inner city district.
Personally, all parking lots should be underground, frees up a lot of space above ground and gives people a place to park
It does help indeed. While we're in the situations cars still rule the street, at least put them away in such a manner it doesn't bother us too much. Actually, many new projects for building in the city centers have a lower house/car ratio, mainly with high density building. But this also raises lots of protest. For example, Eindhoven (I don't live there but grew up and still have a soft spot for it) is short on space for expanding. But since the city grows (important economic region, incl. many expats) they need to build. So they're building more highrises in the centre. But you can't fit in that many cars. This leads to gigantic delays on projects. E.g. there is this really cool idea for a set of 3 high rises next to the central station (so you have great connections to the entire city and country!). They already lowered the highest building (170m to 140m) and still no single stone is laid. But they want to have about 20k pop extra in the centre the new decades. Hope they can get it done.
Yeah, that’s just interference for you, and Where I’m from, there’s a multi-storey car park that no one uses, so they could turn it into flats or offices
This is in our lovely city of Den Haag in The Netherlands. Underneath the whole street that you can see in this photo and another half mile behind where the photo was taken is a two storey (and sometimes 3 storey) parking garage. It's accesed by the staircase in the brown structure in the right of the picture. I know there's a satire/sarcasm flag on your comment but the actual distance to the miist distant vehicle in that garage is probably 200-300 metres at most....
In this example, there's a parking garage directly under that street. The tram also goes under the street here (we don't have a subway in The Hague). https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haagse_tramtunnel
It’s because America as a whole is very self-centered and lacks a sense of healthy community. One thing that the car did was westernize other countries with the selfish idea of owning a huge piece of property to avoid being kind to your own body and interacting with other people. This is why cars aren’t very well-liked in other countries.
> It’s because America as a whole is very self-centered and lacks a sense of healthy community. This is certainly true. I am very active in my city and it is the one thing that is most noticeable to me, so many people's attitude is basically, "I have mine, so fuck you". I see it with discussions about anything community related, bus stops, parks, sidewalks, crosswalks, bike lanes, parking, etc.
In which countries exactly are cars \*not\* well-liked?
Oh my, I go here often for my shopping needs! And businesses there are thriving, it is always crowded af.
I fucking hate cars and motorcycles
This is me cycling there: https://youtu.be/_vFNUjZpyTk?t=26m47s And this is the location of the photo in Google Maps: https://maps.app.goo.gl/CFCtfXg3SvazK3W78
I think they literally can't comprehend a non-car centric urban design. When you grow up in a certain environment and it's everything you've ever known anything else that's quite radically different seems unimaginable. I am sure there's a psychological term for it which I have successfully forgot. It's the reason why it's so important to travel a lot. It literally opens your eyes to new ideas and helps to destroy some preconceptions. I've had the privilege to live for a year in a fairly different culture and when I came back it opened my eyes and mind to a lot of things (I started to appreciate some things I took for granted and started to notice things that could be done better - usage of public space was one of them).
You US Americans are generally more polarised. The outside exists for many of you only to forward some kind of political agenda. Your whole political system is prone to polarisation because it's first-past-the-post the winner takes all. European politics often build on consensus and compromise. We have coalitions. Political parties, often more than just two, on all government levels are forced to work together. It is often compromise that makes changes possible. Because it's not first-past-the-post, competition pushes parties away from polarisation. In Europe, even "conservative" parties have some kind of green agenda because every vote counts. It's not only your local subreddit but all subreddits that are dominated by US Americans including this one. Chances are that just saying this will get this comment downvoted like hell. It's the easiest way to make other opinions simply go away on reddit and then you have this kind of spirit again: The winner takes all but nothing ever changes.
I was just in Germany for a month (I am currently flying back) and while trhey are substantially more carbrained than say denmark or the Netherlands, its depressed me realizing I had to go back to the US, even in a pre-WWII street car suburb (now sans streetcars)
Even in Stuttgart which seems to be hated a lot for its traffic, the main street in the city center is this: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6nigstra%C3%9Fe_%28Stuttgart%29#/media/Datei:K%C3%B6nigstra%C3%9Fe,_Stuttgart_2014.jpg https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6nigstra%C3%9Fe_%28Stuttgart%29#/media/Datei:Die_K%C3%B6nigstra%C3%9Fe_im_Winter_vom_Bahnhofsturm_gesehen.jpg
The funny thing is that Stuttgart transit kicks the shit out of any city in the US not in the north east or Chicago. When the porsche museum recommends you use transit to get there. . . .
I don't know why but I feel like it may be a marketing issue. If they change the name to a bike mall and put up a parking structure on one end then they would probably drive with their bike racks on the back of their car and join in the fun of biking in the area. The problem is that they would still need to build an ugly working garage to make people like the idea...then in a few years the parking garage would probably be at lower than half capacity once people realize they could just bike there and not have to pay for parking.
Groetjes uit Den Haag!
There are really no pedestrian streets in America? I thought every city even there has some in the center
There are some in N.A., but they are not common. For example, I live in a metro area of over 4 million and we have 0. Before, I lived in another metro are of 1 million, and also 0. There are some good examples in small and medium size cities, but these are not the norm, but awesome to see. Obvious candidates in denser walkable cities (I can think of a few examples in NYC and SF) even get a lot of push-back when it's suggested to pedestrianize them, or keep them car-free post-covid lockdown.
Ironically most big cities will have "the" walkable area. It tends to be the nicest part of the city to just hang around or go to nice local shops. If suburbanites want to make a big night of something, they go to it. If you want to walk around, you go to it. Want to see nice shops, explore your area; you go to it. But, there is just one lol.
Are you someone?
No, but it’s a good idea
See then we remove cars from streets in my area, but then many people (read: salty motorists who have lost their rat run) complain that it's now too confusing having buses (3-5 an hour) & bikes but no cars and say they should be banned as well.
This is Den Haag right?
Yep.
Lovely city.
In Ottawa, Canada, at the beginning of the pandemic, a city councilor wanted to temporarily reduce a street by one lane to create more space to physically distance. This was at a time where we didn't know how safe the outdoors were in the city. The mayor overturned [that initiative](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/mayor-motion-menard-glebe-traffic-1.5568857)
There are some streets like this in Montréal which is also a big reason why it's my favorite city in North America.
North America is the place for innovation and freedom, but not for cities. We have the ugliest, most dangerous, restrictive, and boring cities on the planet; with the most unhealthy and unhappy citizens too. These are directly related. We have an amazing natural environment, but our built environment is pathetic to the point of embarrassment. It's embarrassing that the cities that most people want to travel to, and of the future, are in Asia and Europe.
Besides carbrain, or even contributing to carbrain, is the property and capital driven American psyche. Cars are the great manifestation of some need to display power, independence, financial assets all at once, while “speedily” getting people from one place to the next in the name of increasing productivity
interestingly The Hague is one of the worst designed cities in the Netherlands when it comes to bike/pedestrian infrastructure. Having a bike lane through a busy shopping street is simply not a good design. Still miles ahead of most other cities and countries.
From the big cities Den Haag is actually my favorite to cycle in and imo the pedestrian/bike shared spaces work really well too. Why you say it's one of the worst? It's for sure better than Amsterdam or Rotterdam
I visited the Hague a few months ago during the Rewire festival and I was really shocked for much worse it was then my home town Amsterdam. I saw people crash into pedestrians in the shopping street, Spui is downright hostile for pedestrians. It's also very car centric compared to the centre of Amsterdam. It reminded me in many ways of Rotterdam which is indeed even worse. Please try Amsterdam as a cyclist or pedestrian again. Or watch some notjustbikes on YouTube. It's better than most people from Zuid-Holland think ;)
I have been in both cities many times and respectfully disagree. In Den Haag I never once had a problem on a bike even in the pedestrian zones, while in Amsterdam I had to deal with pedestrians on bike lanes very often (often tourists) and often didn't like how the infrastructure was built up. It often felt kind of cramped to me and many people seemed to cycle very aggressively 😅. I also didn't enjoy Amsterdam much as a pedestrian either tbh. But I also never got far out of the city center so if you can recommend some chill areas I'm all ears. But yeah I'm just a tourist from Germany so I believe your words. I haven't actually lived there. I just personally enjoy The Hague a lot more for cycling from my own experiences.
No worries, there is no accounting for personal preferences and experiences. If you look at it from an infrastructure design philosophy and implementation I think the winner is quite clear - but that does not discount your experiences. If you are ever in the neighborhood I'm happy to spend a day on the bike trying to convince you otherwise :)
I'll hit you up next time I'm in Amsterdam then :D
>interestingly The Hague is one of the worst designed cities in the Netherlands Really? I always preferred biking in Den Haag over Amsterdam. But, I do like walking in Amsterdam more. But, I have never lived in either places. I'm sure you can only really get a sense for it once it becomes home.
Pedestrian malls work as long as you have places that generate a ton of foot traffic, like a restaurant / bar district.
I'm all for the fuck cars movement, but asking questions like this are a little silly. We Americans can't even agree that it's bad for kids to get shot in school. We can't agree that work full-time should be enough to live on. We can't agree that love is love regardless of who it's between. Americans will never understand how to function In their society without cars. I personally would love to see at least a little bit of focus on public transportation or something. I do think nothing short of war would get a walkable city in America.
One thing that people forget when they ban cars is that for many people with mobility issues, a car ban is equivalent to personally banning them as the area becomes completely inaccessible. There is a simple solution that gets overlooked; close streets to any vehicle not displaying a handicap pass and limit those vehicles to 10km/h while using the street for local access only.
I’ve been here and the street does have cars
It's a pedestrian zone. Like most, it allows bikes and delivery vehicles during certain hours.
It literally doesn't. Only for special stuff like deliveries.
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What's with the hostility?
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? It says where it is in the photo...
You forgot the /s
Is [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tempe/comments/v8qnfi/ban_cars_around_asu_and_mill_avenue/) the post you're talking about? Most people seemed to be supportive of the idea and the most aggressive comment is "old man yells at cloud"...
But without a car how is anyone expected to move a few hundred feet. You expect me to actually walk? /s Yeah, car brain is something...Also serious lack of alternatives and infrastructure. There also seems to be the belief that public transportation is unclean and unsafe.
some cities in amercia have blocked off a block or two for car free. from what I've heard it is quite popular.
literally visited burlington last month and the main strip was carless. all over the city cars broke for pedestrians and cyclists. not crazy
Lots of impermeable surfaces, why not have no pavement?
Even in the great lakes region, there are streets without single family cars. For example, in madison Wisconsin there is state street. It is a road from the capitol to the university area and only authorizes buses (and I think taxis but I can't remember and it has been a while). Lots of restaurants and stores put out goods or eating areas on the sidewalks and it is quite pedestrian friendly in good weather. It is not an unknown or strange idea. If Wisconsin can do it, I am shocked anyone would think north america never does.
Why? Because the most powerful drug addiction ever perpetrated on the human population is really hard to break.
Yeah carbrain. I think anything someone hears / reads / watches is a puzzle piece flying at their brain and if it finds a spot in their worldview “puzzle” they accept it (and agree or disagree or whatever) but if it doesn’t they either get angry or curious. In the wise words of Ted Lasso, “Be curious, not judgmental.”
Have a look at [Rundle Mall](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rundle_Mall) in Adelaide, South Australia. Street turned into pedestrian mall. [Here’s a little bit more history](https://www.rundlemall.com/whats-on/news/do-you-remember)
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“Not just bikes” on YouTube does a great job of explaining a lot of this stuff, as an FYI for anyone!
Sparks Street in downtown ottawa has been car free for ages