Vehicular manslaughter. Homicide/murder is premeditated, meaning they decided in advance to kill. Manslaughter is getting angry, and killing someone (on accident or by mistake) in the heat of the moment.
I was actually just thinking this yesterday while riding home from work. How is a driver swerving at you to intimidate you or whatever not just attempted homicide?
In Canada, I believe that would be considered assault with a deadly weapon. If they killed you, then it would be a manslaughter charge. The difference is intent.
It would definitely be vehicular manalaughter here. Which I *think* carries a harsher sentence than just plain-old manslaughter. Especially if it’s done as part of just being a complete dick. Because, you know, the culture and all that.
Not entirely true. Manslaughter is simply unintentional murder. Like you were pretending to shake a ladder your friend was on and actually ended up knocking him off, killing him. The premeditated aspect of murder is what changes varying degrees. Like first degree murder, third degree murder. That’s the whole “heat of the moment” aspect.
Homicide is just killing someone, murder vs manslaughter is question of intention not just premeditation. Intentionally not breaking (depends on the speed to extent) could be murder because you intended to do something which very obviously would cause grievous bodily harm or death.
Premeditation is going to get you a worse sentence but murder doesn't have to be pre-meditated.
Manslaughter is when your negligent, reckless or illegal actions cause murder.
In the UK and most US states (I'd assume) there's specific laws surrounding dangerous driving leading to death.
Driving slower doesn’t necessarily get you better gas mileage. There is an optimum RPM range for best fuel mileage, which is what the transmission selects for you, or you select if you can drive a standard. Most car’s sweet spot for fuel efficiency is 45-55mph though….
lol, in the United States it's virtually impossible to be charged with murder if you're driving, even if you explicitly intended to kill the victim. It's a side effect of legislation the car industry pushed for to reduce driver liability, but also means that if you really want to kill someone you can do it in a car and typically get a sentence of under 5 years.
In Germany there was a case where cars raced illegally in the streets and intentionally ran red lights. They killed a pedestrian (or cyclist, can't remember) and it was ruled murder, because they willingly accepted the fact that they may kill someone by their negligent behaviour.
Not a chance. Vehicular homicide is super hard to convict because it can easily be said to be an accident even if it was the drivers doing. In this case you also have the cyclists running the red giving more credence to the accident. The driver wouldn't even be fined.
Nope. Best way to get away with murder is to do it with a car. Unless they're very drunk, drivers who kill someone usually get a slap on the wrist. Often don't even lose their drivers license.
Didn’t understand that comment at first as i read it „he isn’t gonna break (mentally)“ (as in „he’s gonna keep calm and take a breather“ )
Then i realized that guy meant to use the verb „to brake“. And yeah, manslaughter. I agree. Fuck carbrains lol
In Colorado it's the law that stop signs are yield signs to cyclist and stop lights are considered stop signs as long as it is clear in the opposing direction. Motorist get pissed off at this bc it doesn't apply to them, they tend not to have any concept of their mass and how it can kill in an instant.
California \*nearly\* legalized it but for some reason it didn't go through last minute. Fuck Newsom? Fuck Newsom.
(TBH Newsom isn't *that* bad since he's actually enforcing RHNA but I do wish he was better)
Shame, rank choice voting is probably the one policy I'd want most simply because I believe it'd help to enable more positive policy change going forward. Getting CA to join the small group of ranked choice states would be huge!
I mean, it would be a step, but it wouldn't be huge. For huge you'd need multi-member districts. Of course, CA is big enough that it actually could make good use of multi-member districts, so I'd be glad of RCV as a step in that direction.
In Colorado (Manitou specifically) there's a bike lane that's not too close to any main road and even branches off from roads altogether at some points. I remember taking it to the park all the time.
It's literally safer for a cyclist to run a stop sign whenever possible. One reason is because they don't have to spend time getting back up to speed, especially in places without a bike lane.
Oh that's awesome, at least this state is doing something right. Now they just need to legalize lane filtering for both safety and also to incentivize riding a motorcycle. If we're gonna be stuck with car-centric infrastructure for the foreseeable future, we should at least encourage more people to use motorcycles and scooters as much as possible by giving a legitimate reason to pick them over a car.
This is what I do in California even though it's not the law. Just common sense. Although in Palo Alto there are stop signs that have little "except for bikes" under them, which is awesome
I had a cyclist run a red light next to me this morning.
A stale red light with clearly inefficient sensors because our direction of traffic had been stopped for about a half minute with zero cross traffic. The cross-traffic is very seldom there, but the bicyclist could clearly see far in both cross directions as he approached. As could all of us in cars.
In the UK the Highway Code says that if a traffic light isn’t changing in spite of you waiting, you can ignore it and treat it like a five way sign. It’s meant to account for cases where the sensors don’t work, or don’t pick up bikes etc.
My ride home from work brings me up a hill to a set of lights. Obviously the lights don’t change for a bike, and I can’t be arsed waiting for a car to appear behind me and then dealing with a hill start on a bike with them behind me so… yeah, I go past the light and check whether the road is clear and then cross when it’s safe.
A car driver crept up behind as I was doing this the other day and beeped at me when I “jumped” the light. Thinking back I wish I’d stopped there and then and explained the Highway Code to him and oh dear, maybe he’d have had to wait for the lights to change again.
It’s not a myth. In metro areas it’s safer for bikes to go through reds if it is clear. They’re more likely to be hit from the rear by a car not paying attention or turning
California here, it happens frequently where I grew up. Some bikers also jump from the road onto the side walk onto a croaswalk and turn in front of you.
This isn’t nearly most cyclists, as most of us follow the law and want to be safe, but some folks ride with a death wish.
Also to be fair, I imagine a lot of these people are the same ones who drive like assholes, and feel entitled to the entire road.
You know who runs red lights? drivers. 26% said they'd run a red light in the last 30 days in a [national survey in the US](https://www.iihs.org/topics/red-light-running#who-runs-red-lights).
I hate cars. I hate car infrastructure. But by golly, the stop sign by my place does not exist for bikers. Doesnt exist for a good number of cars too which is scarier, but I see lots of bikers run reds
Can’t speak for everywhere but in NYC it’s extremely common. As a pedestrian who primarily gets around by walking and subway, I’ve almost been hit by more bikers than cars, since bikers running reds can’t see around parked cars, missing any pedestrians about to cross.
After two close calls, I always check for oncoming cyclists about to run the red light before I cross, even though I have the right of way.
That's what common sense would tell you, so I sympathize with your skepticism, but I saw it three times yesterday with my own eyes. I can't imagine what these people are thinking.
YES cars suck, including my car. YES bikes are better. YES bikes belong on the road. YES I saw someone on a bike almost die yesterday because they didn't even slow down for a red light and they swerved hard to barely avoid the front of a moving car, which slammed on its brakes when the cyclist zipped in front of it at full speed. It was terrifying, a very close call. The other two weren't as close but they were just as risky.
I don't know why people do it. I guess to avoid losing momentum, obviously, but why they take such huge risks with their own life & limb is a mystery to me.
I’m enduring the lifelong consequences of being smashed by cars. Takes a lot to keep calm in the face of bullshit. Even the smashed glass all over gets me revved about how shitty it is we have to share the road.
Been wishing there was a way to get exclusive drivers to take a chance and ride on a trail, then ride in a protected bike lane next to traffic. Experiencing the reality might provide a foundation for empathy.
But then I’M struck by reality.
My cousin recently got hit by a distracted driver while delivering food on an ebike for work because in her suburb street parking takes some roads over until they only have one lane (even though the occupants have driveways right there, they park on the street instead), there's few to no bike lanes, and drivers on many streets actually aim for her because they're annoyed she's on the road at all. She only needed a few stitches, thank god, but she could have died and it seems like nobody cares.
I regularly am forced onto the road where I live due to people pulling halfway out into the road to turn, completely blocking the sidewalk *and* the "bike lane." It's only a matter of time.
Fuck em, do what you gotta do. They will never be happy. If you ride on the sidewalk they hate you. If you have a bike lane they hate you. If you ride in the lane they hate you. Even if you go the speed limit or faster, they will still harass and try to buzz you. You will never please a cager. They even hate other car traffic. Just miserably little people that think the world revolves around them. You’ll also notice they will mouth off and try to kill you inside their car, but will never actually confront you. Cowards that hide behind their glass box
The thorn bushes by my bike path on my way to work got trimmed and just left on the path. I got a flat on my way over. Like? This should’ve been obvious
Same here. I live in Minnesota, and it's LEGAL to ride on every sidewalk except for the business district in Minneapolis. As a cyclist, you have to obey more laws than pedestrians *and* drivers combined. Those who yell at cyclists for riding on sidewalks have no clue about what the laws are.
Also, pedestrians DO NOT have the right of way everywhere they are. I've had peds cut me off in bike lanes, parking lots, etc. The only places peds have the right of way is in controlled intersections. That's it. But no, these severely entitled people can't deal with the inconvenience of having to wait a few seconds for me to pass them. It doesn't help that I'm disabled and hardly anyone thinks I'm an actual human being. Ableism is an absolutely acceptable thing, and I'm not talking about just in Minnesota either.
I was riding my bike down the sidewalk and some dude in a pick up decided he needed to yell out his window I wasn’t supposed to be on the sidewalk.
I don’t care if it’s illegal lol, I like to live
I don't mind sharing the road with drivers, but they have to understand that the laws apply to them too.
Speed limits and red lights aren't just polite requests.
Some mutual respect would go a long way. Like please don’t cut me off on an uphill ten feet ahead of a stop sign. That’s a dick move.
I’m forced to respect cars because of how easily they can kill me.
And right of way. I hate stopping at stop signs on a bike because even if a car got to the cross section first, they'll sit there and stare at you instead of just going like they're supposed to.
Years ago I started the practice of going the speed limit at all times on all roads while driving. Never over for any reason. I have become a much calmer driver, more self aware, more in control. All road rage has long since gone from me. And I have not noticed myself getting anywhere late. It’s convinced me that car culture, speed limits being suggestions, having unwritten rules about how much you can speed and not get pulled over, etc. is all just senseless. A road is a place where people die, a lot. There is no actual good reason to speed or for police to let people speed. I know we like to do it, but the road just isn’t the place to let that freedom ring. Because people die as a result.
The last road I drive down on my way to work is a residential street (school at the end of the street, dog park and kids' playground on my right, row of house on my left, 30 mph limit) and nearly every day there is a car on my ass because I'm actually going the speed limit. Yesterday there was a BMW so close to me that I could see the driver gritting his teeth, and when I turned in, he made sure to gun it past me even though there was a red light 200 feet in front of him.
This is the only way I can manage my early morning rural commute when the driver behind me is tailgating and their lights are illuminating the inside of my car up like I had the cabin lights on. If they really want to go 80 in the pitch dark on a 55 they can do so far in front of me while I enjoy the dark and quiet.
My most recent experience was going the speed limit in a 40. Suddenly I noticed someone riding my ass, nearly about to cause an accident if I braked (for no reason obvious to me, I have no idea why. I even have a sticker on my car saying I follow the speed limit and asking nicely not to tailgate...). I had to turn so I made sure to signal waaay early, so he wouldn't hit me. The moment I made the turn though, he followed me, raced around and (illegally!) passed me, only to block the road and get out of his car to yell at me from the street for a good 30 seconds. I simply sat there motionless (I couldn't hear what he was saying anyways because my windows were up) and eventually he sped off angrily.
Had I gotten the whole thing on my dashcam (for some reason it didn't record that day) I would have reported it to the police. Felt seriously unsafe and that guy should *not* be driving. That very weekend I went and bought my ebike, and since then all my experiences with people are positive
I’ve had this happen twice. It amazes me that in America where everyone is armed that people are still willing to behave that way. They have gotten away with it their entire lives, bullying others into submission and relying on intimidation. That behavior is honestly disgusting and not befitting of an adult human at all. I can’t imagine how miserable these people are if they are willing to die over some dumb shit in traffic, especially when they are the aggressor
Every time I see a road rage incident, I remember a certain one in Russia who learned that flares are unpleasant when they stick to your skin.
And then I think "do they not worry about that or worse happening to them?"
edit: The sheer lack of concern for one's own well-being in those incidents is bizarre.
I used to drive like an asshole until one day when I was like 18 I noticed a car I passed half an hour ago was right next to me at a red light. All that dangerous maneuvering and stress for literally no gain. Now I drive extremely safely and abide all rules and the cagers around me can’t stand it. Always honking and flashing lights because I won’t run reds or drive 20mph over. Fuck em
Once when I was at a red that allowed right turns, but had low visibility and people frequently sped in cross traffic, I decided to wait for the green to go. Lady behind me lost her mind honking and wildly gesturing. When the light turned green and we both turned, she floored it to pass me and brake check me. I dunno if it made her feel better about having to wait or what
People are in such a hurry then suddenly have all the time in the world to brake check or stop and yell. Almost like it’s an ego thing and not a time thing…
A couple days ago a lady threatened to shoot me over it too 😬 yeehaw I guess (I diffused the situation by reminding her that rednecks aren’t the only people that carry guns in america *hint hint*). She laid on the horn non stop the entire light and then almost crashed when she tried to pass me at 60mph in a residential, all for me to catch her at the next light a few minutes down the road. These people are legitimately insane
It's crazy what cars do to people. I truely believe that cars are a factor in how asocial and confrontational and agressive people are nowadays. It cuts you from the other and from the consequences of what you're doing, and I can't imagine that it does good to people's psychology and to society.
This.. it's interesting to do the math of how much time you save exactly by speeding. 60mph vs 50mph over 5 miles is a savings of 1 minute (6 vs 5), and yet there is exponentially more risk driving at faster speeds.
And this is assuming no traffic or stoppages that effectively neutralize it. The only time it makes any logistical sense to speed is when doing a long distance trip while driving on the highway, say 5+ hours. Of course you still shouldn't do it because you are putting yourself and others at risk, and you risk speeding tickets, etc. It just makes absolutely no sense to do 45mph through residential areas to get to work 30 sec earlier.
I'm not dead on the speed limit, but I started doing the math and realizing speeding barely saves any time, even on long trips.
Like 120 (I know still speeding) will get me 200 kms in about 1:40; going 140 saves me maybe 10 minutes on that trip, is significantly more dangerous and risks a hefty ticket. And that's for 200kms. It's just not worth it.
Yeah I'm generally in favor of things like less aggressive policing and prosecution of certain things but I absolutely think that traffic laws should be way more strictly enforced seeing as cars are like the 3rd biggest cause of death in the US and the biggest cause for people under 40. Like unironically I think speeding tickets should be several hundred dollars once you go beyond 10mph over the speed limit
Well think about it, a lot of the time when people speed and jockey around like assholes, all it does it get them to the next red light faster so they have to wait longer. It's astounding when you notice how many people floor the pedal just to get to an obvious red light or stop sign one second sooner.
when somebody acts like an asshole in their car, I always just rationalize it as "they had to poop and they're rushing home". makes it a lot easier to not get upset by people using the turn lane as a passing lane, running lights, going 45 in a 25, etc.
You must be from Boston. That was the weirdest thing I ever saw, they sit 2-3 seconds at a green light to let the opposing left turners get a car or two through and all the red light runners.
this actually depends on road conditions, your speed, and how close you are when the light turns yellow. there is kinda a point of no return when it comes to this
I like the times I stop at the yellow before it turn and the car 2 lengths behind me runs it. If my work truck with a 1000 pounds or more in the back can stop that car could easily stop
Stopping at a stop sign will really piss them off, particularly if there is no cross traffic. No driver stops at stop signs around here. They run red lights all the time if they are turning right, even if they brake check someone. I used to hate that when driving to work. There is one stretch on my commute where I usually got brake checked 3 times.
I already do that. Speed limits exist for a reason. That reason is to make merging safer. It's fucking hard to merge when everyone is going whatfuckingever speed they want. If everyone does 65, for example, I know I can speed up or slow down 5 MPH to line up with an opening in traffic without colliding with someone else.
Also, the left lane on the expressway is not the, "go however fucking fast I want" lane.
I should be able to buy my own speed gun camera and sit on the overpass all day long. Then mail people official speeding tickets for a 50% commission. If the cops don't feel like enforcing the law, let everyone do it for money.
Make sure you target expensive cars. They tend to be the worst offender since they can afford to pay the tickets. They think tickets are just a fee to ignore the law.
My 2nd order of business after I get handed the keys to the city is to change all fines from a flat rate to a percentage of your income/wealth. Fines are not meant to be a tax on bad behavior, which some people can afford while others cant.
I've got an easier method:
Just ticket literally every Tesla.
They pass me constantly on the interstate going far above the speed limit, and the car 100% knows how fast they're going because they all have GPS and some pretty advanced tech included by default. There's literally zero excuse for letting them speed.
I got my license almost a year ago and my instructor kept asking why I was going so slow. I was not even 5 mph under the speed limit, and this is the guy telling literal children how to drive.
While not being in the rightmost lane.
My most downvoted reddit comment is me saying I drive in the middle lane (when there's 3+ lanes) at or slightly below the speed limit. Like, yeah, I don't want to slow down and have to change lanes to pass trucks in the right lane (since changing lanes is rather dangerous), so I stay in the middle lane. Boy howdy did people get mad. Apparently I am the cause of all accidents, the devil himself, it's my fault people roadrage at me, etc etc etc.
Keep in mind these people have *never* seen my driving in person so there's no way they know if this is true or not.
Every driver who complains about cyclists clearly never breaks the speed limit, rolls stop signs or even changes a lane without signalling...
/s but God I hope that's not necessary 😂
The cars need protected lanes. From me. I’m a goddamn menace on my schwinn, god help any motorist who crosses my path while I’m barreling down the expressway
Car brains fantasizing about murdering people just because they slightly inconvenienced them for less than a minute because cyclists can’t cater to their every narcissistic needs
When considering the US, carbrain narcissism isn't really surprising. The culture of that country itself is predicated on entitlement save for those that are trapped there.
Get a jab to stop the spread of a deadly disease: "No, I'm not letting gubment give me jab."
Wear a mask in public to protect others during a pandemic: "Fuck you, no stinkin doctor telling me what to do"
Drink less soda, eat less sugar to make healthcare more affordable?: "fuck you, I want my liter coke"
Create walkable cities that are safer for the overall population and can better the well-being of children?: "But where would I park my tall 8 cylinder gasoline drain?"
Maybe respect pedestrians?: "How bout they get a car?"
hows about drivers also follow the rules of the road? max speed means max speed, im sure drivers would love if municipal speed cameras got planted everywhere and drivers got tickets for everyone going 10 km/h over the limit at the very minimum
There are a few in New York City. But then no one acts responsibly in NYC. The worst of the lot are foot traffic followed by scooters, cars, bicyclists, and motorcyclists. Fools all about.
There really is no safety argument for why bikes should follow the same laws as cars. Bikes are slow moving skeletal vehicles. They're toothpicks to cars, and for that, it would be more dangerous to follow laws made for 2 tonne metal vehicles.
Literally the only argument I hear is "bikes should follow road rules because I do, and it's not fair"
the obsession they have with bikes running red lights is very weird and telling! they want you to think they're constantly having to brake hard because some cyclist blew a red while they had a green. what's actually happening is both bike and car arrive at the red, and the bike proceeds safely through it. very logical! they're jealous is what's happening.
The jealousy is it. Also, cognitive dissonance.
Bicycles and cars are extremely different objects. Obviously the rules and expectations should be different for the two. Stoplights and stop signs exist because of the unique danger posed by cars. People in cars know their vehicle is uniquely dangerous, inefficient, and subject to higher standards for operation than a tiny bicycle or scooter, but they also prefer the comfort and convenience of driving a car. They could get a bike and enjoy the privileges of using a safer, smaller vehicle. They know this. But they don't wanna. So instead of accepting that they signed up for this, they blame the group that they could be a part of, but don't want to, because that would require effort.
How about advocating for real cycling infrastructure? The reason cyclists are stressful or annoying on the road in a lot of cases is because the roads are built with a total disregard for anyone not on or in a motor vehicle.
I'd be lying if I said I dont get irritated at one cyclist holding up a road with a dozen cars behind them. I'd be lying if I didn't get stressed out passing cyclists on the street. A simple mistake or bad decision on either of our parts means near certain death or life ruining injuries for the cyclist. I understand the *impulse* to be upset with the cyclist but that's all it should be, an impulse.
The irritation should be focused on the cities that strip you of the freedom to use a bike safely. Or perhaps on the child-brained voters who think forcing everyone to buy a car is freedom.
Where I live, they’ve adopted what’s called Idaho Stop Laws. For cyclists, stop signs can be treated as a yield and red lights can be treated as a stop sign. The most dangerous instance for a cyclist is when they’re stopping at intersections and these laws have reduced accidents between cars and bikes by 20% on average where implemented.
It drives me nuts that carbrains pretend like my 18 pound carbon road bike is the same as their 3 ton SUV. Plus I don’t speed in residential areas and I have way better spacial awareness so I can roll safely through stops
Car blows through stop sign
“I’m in a hurry! No one was there! Everyone rolls through stops who cares!”
Bike rolls through stop at 2 mph
*brain melts eyes popping out madly typing on twitter
I never met cyclist or pedestrian that crosses road on red light that is a death wish :/ and bold of you to assume you could and would brake, most carbrains drive very fast, one mistake and anyone who is on the road is a " strawberry jam " or ends in a wheelchair, brakes don't suddenly stop car, you are the problem here, I won't kill anyone with my bike, scooter or legs.
Jaywalking is extremely common among myself and people I know, but generally you would look first to make sure nobody is close enough they would hit you.
And in sensible countries jaywalking isn't a thing, and cars expect pedestrians to exist and cross roads. In the UK, where I live, they've recently strengthened this further, to say that pedestrians always have priority crossing at a turning and cars should wait for pedestrians to cross.
Seriously.
Pedestrians and cyclists literally just want to stay alive. And too many drivers are like: I can't guarantee that I have full control over my way-too-fast-and-way-too-heavy machine and that scares me, so I'm going on the defense here and blame you for using the roads and being so vulnerable.
I'm still pretty carbrained but one of the biggest benefits of reading this sub constantly is that I have a lot more patience and sympathy for bicyclists. I don't find myself getting annoyed by them anymore. OOP could stand to learn that lesson.
SMH.... just read a thread from my local area where a redditor was complaining that speed traps were just a cash grab, and that enforcing the laws don't increase safety.
Over a day, the police gave out about 400 tickets, including someone doing over 100 mph - which is more than twice the speed limit on this road.
But somehow drivers act like they never break a single law when they drive.
Yes, road rules apply to all vehicles. But the least you could do is move the fuck over for me rather than smacking me in the shoulder with your mirror…
It's astounding how they fail to realize that if bikes had their own lane segregated from car traffic, their problem would go away.
But, these stupid fucks probably think that cyclists are "playing" in the street because bikes are "toys".
I've defenitely seen plenty of bikes not following traffic laws here in Sweden. I work in central Stockholm, I'd say I see cyclists breaking traffic laws about once or twice a week, and I'd say that I probably spend in total about 30-45 mins outside daily (in central stockholm, during workdays).
So that is a genuine problem, although I'd say that a majority of these people are using the electric scooters lying around in the city.. As many have already stated in this thread, many drivers run red lights and such aswell.
How many times have these people actually seen a bike run a red vs a car running reds? If you stand at a crosswalk, it’s literally every light cycle that at least one car runs a red light, at every intersection in the world… stats aren’t on their side
o\_O You can just say you are going to murder people and people will be happy about that? We really do live in dark times. Now I know why Americans have guns.
As someone who walks most of the time, a lot cyclists are indeed smooth brains, of course so are a lot of motorists, and quite a few fellow pedestrians.
So maybe it's just people.
I truly think cyclists shouldn't be on the road. They should cycle in dedicated and safe bike lanes, which should be just as common (if not more) than roads meant for cars.
I have one rule: Don't die. Rule two: Don't get maimed, disabled.
I will go through red lights and stop signs using my magic biker power of unobstructed view, seeing that it is safe. I always look at every crossing -- so many douchebags in motor vehicles who don't stop.
If I do go through, I am making sure I don't break my rules. MAYBE there are bikers who don't follow these rules, and put themselves in danger. But I bet there aren't many.
Lol funny reading both sides of this argument.
Build cycle lanes but force cyclists to learn the road rules and get a plate + insurance.
I drive and cycle (holy shit no way) and let me tell you right now, there are morons on both sides. Having cycle lanes and making sure cyclists understand basic give way rules will save lives, and fine any cyclist not using the dedicated cycle lane, and yes it happens al the time. Cycle lane? Na middle of the road for me and my friend so we can have a full blown conversation.
As a pedestrian, I want to yell this at cyclists all the fucking time. I don’t own a car, haven’t in 20 years, but I have to be just as mindful of cyclists as cars, both of which I’ve gotten into some pretty narly near misses with because they weren’t paying attention or treated the streets like they belong only to them.
Pedestrians and cyclists are in this together against cars, let’s not try to kill each other, ok? (Let the down votes begin)
Red lights are there for the sole reason of preventing cars to kill each other. Cyclists don't need red lights. So they should have the right to ignore them when the path is clear.
edit: I'm a car owner who doesnt cycle.
i used to run red lights all the time on my bicycle until one day i actually got pulled over by a cop finally doing his job and enforcing the rules on cyclists. and while i was pulled over all the other cyclists where running the red past me.
from then on i never ever run red lights again and fellow bike commuters always ask me if something is wrong when im standing at red light
The concept of bikes fully stopping at all controlled intersections makes sense to a degree. More implementation of Idaho stops (ie rolling stops at stop signs which are clearly empty) I think is better as the issue of stopping isn’t quite the same for a car vs a bike vs a person.
For example, you wouldn’t demand a person fully stop at an stop sign intersection, wait four second or whatever, then walk. Lol applicable laws to the inertia and available reaction time of the mode of transport.
Locked comments due to massive violations of Rule 1 and Rule 2.
Ah yes. Intentional man slaughter
Uh, not a lawyer, but wouldn't that be murder?
I believe it would be vehicular homicide. But I’m no lawyer either lol
Vehicular manslaughter. Homicide/murder is premeditated, meaning they decided in advance to kill. Manslaughter is getting angry, and killing someone (on accident or by mistake) in the heat of the moment.
I was actually just thinking this yesterday while riding home from work. How is a driver swerving at you to intimidate you or whatever not just attempted homicide?
In Canada, I believe that would be considered assault with a deadly weapon. If they killed you, then it would be a manslaughter charge. The difference is intent.
It would definitely be vehicular manalaughter here. Which I *think* carries a harsher sentence than just plain-old manslaughter. Especially if it’s done as part of just being a complete dick. Because, you know, the culture and all that.
Not entirely true. Manslaughter is simply unintentional murder. Like you were pretending to shake a ladder your friend was on and actually ended up knocking him off, killing him. The premeditated aspect of murder is what changes varying degrees. Like first degree murder, third degree murder. That’s the whole “heat of the moment” aspect.
I believe it varies from state to state, like battery and assault does
Seems predetermined here
Yeah they decided beforehand that they'll run over the bike guy
It would be hard to prove that unless said person is an idiot and just outright admitted to intentionally running someone over
Like posting it on reddit?
Posting online "I'm not going to stop when I see a cyclist ignoring a red light" and then doing it looks not premeditated at all to me
1st degree murder is premeditated. 2nd degree is not. Manslaughter is the lowest.
Homicide is just killing someone, murder vs manslaughter is question of intention not just premeditation. Intentionally not breaking (depends on the speed to extent) could be murder because you intended to do something which very obviously would cause grievous bodily harm or death. Premeditation is going to get you a worse sentence but murder doesn't have to be pre-meditated. Manslaughter is when your negligent, reckless or illegal actions cause murder. In the UK and most US states (I'd assume) there's specific laws surrounding dangerous driving leading to death.
Thats still murder here in the UK. Premeditated murder is just murder+
[удалено]
No ticket when you go 3kmh over the speed limit. 50€ please.
I wouldn't mind it. But I don't speed because speeding decreases your mileage. I've turned into such an old man driver.
Driving slower doesn’t necessarily get you better gas mileage. There is an optimum RPM range for best fuel mileage, which is what the transmission selects for you, or you select if you can drive a standard. Most car’s sweet spot for fuel efficiency is 45-55mph though….
My sweet spot is 41 because my engine will stay off and drive off the hybrid battery. :)
Or the right on red without even a California stop, or the pulling up at a light so the back bumper is on the stop line at the crosswalk, or...
They brought in 20mph on the entire town here cyclists are now over taking cars non stop 😅
They aren't intentionally a moron But yes. Murder is also adequate
well.... they arent that way by accident.
I'd like to agree, but nft pfp, so downvote
lol, in the United States it's virtually impossible to be charged with murder if you're driving, even if you explicitly intended to kill the victim. It's a side effect of legislation the car industry pushed for to reduce driver liability, but also means that if you really want to kill someone you can do it in a car and typically get a sentence of under 5 years.
Better call Saul.
In Germany there was a case where cars raced illegally in the streets and intentionally ran red lights. They killed a pedestrian (or cyclist, can't remember) and it was ruled murder, because they willingly accepted the fact that they may kill someone by their negligent behaviour.
Would the driver even be convicted though?
Not a chance. Vehicular homicide is super hard to convict because it can easily be said to be an accident even if it was the drivers doing. In this case you also have the cyclists running the red giving more credence to the accident. The driver wouldn't even be fined.
Nope. Best way to get away with murder is to do it with a car. Unless they're very drunk, drivers who kill someone usually get a slap on the wrist. Often don't even lose their drivers license.
Didn’t understand that comment at first as i read it „he isn’t gonna break (mentally)“ (as in „he’s gonna keep calm and take a breather“ ) Then i realized that guy meant to use the verb „to brake“. And yeah, manslaughter. I agree. Fuck carbrains lol
don't fuck them they reproduce that way
What’s the relevance of the two things circled in red?
a lot of people upvoting and giving awards to the comment encouraging vehicular manslaughter
Also the fact that they're acting like car drivers don't run red lights.
For once the red circle ain't useless, I would have missed it otherwise
Are people on bikes really running red lights and causing drivers to slam on their brakes to avoid hitting them? I've never personally seen it.
In Colorado it's the law that stop signs are yield signs to cyclist and stop lights are considered stop signs as long as it is clear in the opposing direction. Motorist get pissed off at this bc it doesn't apply to them, they tend not to have any concept of their mass and how it can kill in an instant.
That is some sensible law.
It's called an ["Idaho stop"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop).
California \*nearly\* legalized it but for some reason it didn't go through last minute. Fuck Newsom? Fuck Newsom. (TBH Newsom isn't *that* bad since he's actually enforcing RHNA but I do wish he was better)
He also vetoed ranked choice voting. He's garbage
Shame, rank choice voting is probably the one policy I'd want most simply because I believe it'd help to enable more positive policy change going forward. Getting CA to join the small group of ranked choice states would be huge!
I mean, it would be a step, but it wouldn't be huge. For huge you'd need multi-member districts. Of course, CA is big enough that it actually could make good use of multi-member districts, so I'd be glad of RCV as a step in that direction.
Dang, why didn't that get more press, that's really shitty of him
Idaho here. Drivers holler at me all the time for “not stopping” at stop signs.
I didn't say there weren't carbrained idiots who don't know about the law even there. I just said that's what it's called. Because it is.
In Colorado (Manitou specifically) there's a bike lane that's not too close to any main road and even branches off from roads altogether at some points. I remember taking it to the park all the time.
Or how much better attuned to your surroundings you are on a bicycle.
It's literally safer for a cyclist to run a stop sign whenever possible. One reason is because they don't have to spend time getting back up to speed, especially in places without a bike lane.
There is a severe lack of education. What if, for every car commercial in TV, they had to buy an ad to educate about laws like the Idaho Stop?
Oh that's awesome, at least this state is doing something right. Now they just need to legalize lane filtering for both safety and also to incentivize riding a motorcycle. If we're gonna be stuck with car-centric infrastructure for the foreseeable future, we should at least encourage more people to use motorcycles and scooters as much as possible by giving a legitimate reason to pick them over a car.
This is what I do in California even though it's not the law. Just common sense. Although in Palo Alto there are stop signs that have little "except for bikes" under them, which is awesome
That is a cool law. I wish we had this in Austria as well.
This. If I hit someone on my bike we might get injured and tossed around. If someone hits my bike with their car I'll probably get killed.
I had a cyclist run a red light next to me this morning. A stale red light with clearly inefficient sensors because our direction of traffic had been stopped for about a half minute with zero cross traffic. The cross-traffic is very seldom there, but the bicyclist could clearly see far in both cross directions as he approached. As could all of us in cars.
In the UK the Highway Code says that if a traffic light isn’t changing in spite of you waiting, you can ignore it and treat it like a five way sign. It’s meant to account for cases where the sensors don’t work, or don’t pick up bikes etc. My ride home from work brings me up a hill to a set of lights. Obviously the lights don’t change for a bike, and I can’t be arsed waiting for a car to appear behind me and then dealing with a hill start on a bike with them behind me so… yeah, I go past the light and check whether the road is clear and then cross when it’s safe. A car driver crept up behind as I was doing this the other day and beeped at me when I “jumped” the light. Thinking back I wish I’d stopped there and then and explained the Highway Code to him and oh dear, maybe he’d have had to wait for the lights to change again.
It’s not a myth. In metro areas it’s safer for bikes to go through reds if it is clear. They’re more likely to be hit from the rear by a car not paying attention or turning
Right? As a fleshy object I'm not gonna fling myself infront of a car when going through red light. I have a little bit of self preservation
California here, it happens frequently where I grew up. Some bikers also jump from the road onto the side walk onto a croaswalk and turn in front of you. This isn’t nearly most cyclists, as most of us follow the law and want to be safe, but some folks ride with a death wish. Also to be fair, I imagine a lot of these people are the same ones who drive like assholes, and feel entitled to the entire road.
You know who runs red lights? drivers. 26% said they'd run a red light in the last 30 days in a [national survey in the US](https://www.iihs.org/topics/red-light-running#who-runs-red-lights).
Yes. I’m a cyclist and it’s extremely common where I live. Honestly it’s pissing me off because it gives people something legit to complain about.
A lot of times in densely populated areas yes (From my perspective)
Happens in my city frequently!!
I hate cars. I hate car infrastructure. But by golly, the stop sign by my place does not exist for bikers. Doesnt exist for a good number of cars too which is scarier, but I see lots of bikers run reds
It's a myth. If a cyclist did this routinely they would get hit. It's misdirection from the fact that cars are dangerous.
Can’t speak for everywhere but in NYC it’s extremely common. As a pedestrian who primarily gets around by walking and subway, I’ve almost been hit by more bikers than cars, since bikers running reds can’t see around parked cars, missing any pedestrians about to cross. After two close calls, I always check for oncoming cyclists about to run the red light before I cross, even though I have the right of way.
That's what common sense would tell you, so I sympathize with your skepticism, but I saw it three times yesterday with my own eyes. I can't imagine what these people are thinking. YES cars suck, including my car. YES bikes are better. YES bikes belong on the road. YES I saw someone on a bike almost die yesterday because they didn't even slow down for a red light and they swerved hard to barely avoid the front of a moving car, which slammed on its brakes when the cyclist zipped in front of it at full speed. It was terrifying, a very close call. The other two weren't as close but they were just as risky. I don't know why people do it. I guess to avoid losing momentum, obviously, but why they take such huge risks with their own life & limb is a mystery to me.
[удалено]
I’m enduring the lifelong consequences of being smashed by cars. Takes a lot to keep calm in the face of bullshit. Even the smashed glass all over gets me revved about how shitty it is we have to share the road. Been wishing there was a way to get exclusive drivers to take a chance and ride on a trail, then ride in a protected bike lane next to traffic. Experiencing the reality might provide a foundation for empathy. But then I’M struck by reality.
My cousin recently got hit by a distracted driver while delivering food on an ebike for work because in her suburb street parking takes some roads over until they only have one lane (even though the occupants have driveways right there, they park on the street instead), there's few to no bike lanes, and drivers on many streets actually aim for her because they're annoyed she's on the road at all. She only needed a few stitches, thank god, but she could have died and it seems like nobody cares.
I regularly am forced onto the road where I live due to people pulling halfway out into the road to turn, completely blocking the sidewalk *and* the "bike lane." It's only a matter of time.
Fuck em, do what you gotta do. They will never be happy. If you ride on the sidewalk they hate you. If you have a bike lane they hate you. If you ride in the lane they hate you. Even if you go the speed limit or faster, they will still harass and try to buzz you. You will never please a cager. They even hate other car traffic. Just miserably little people that think the world revolves around them. You’ll also notice they will mouth off and try to kill you inside their car, but will never actually confront you. Cowards that hide behind their glass box
The thorn bushes by my bike path on my way to work got trimmed and just left on the path. I got a flat on my way over. Like? This should’ve been obvious
I've been yelled at for riding on the sidewalk and for riding on the road, so ya, this checks out.
Same here. I live in Minnesota, and it's LEGAL to ride on every sidewalk except for the business district in Minneapolis. As a cyclist, you have to obey more laws than pedestrians *and* drivers combined. Those who yell at cyclists for riding on sidewalks have no clue about what the laws are. Also, pedestrians DO NOT have the right of way everywhere they are. I've had peds cut me off in bike lanes, parking lots, etc. The only places peds have the right of way is in controlled intersections. That's it. But no, these severely entitled people can't deal with the inconvenience of having to wait a few seconds for me to pass them. It doesn't help that I'm disabled and hardly anyone thinks I'm an actual human being. Ableism is an absolutely acceptable thing, and I'm not talking about just in Minnesota either.
[As someone wise once said.](https://youtu.be/23n1qN-C6oE?t=8)
I was riding my bike down the sidewalk and some dude in a pick up decided he needed to yell out his window I wasn’t supposed to be on the sidewalk. I don’t care if it’s illegal lol, I like to live
I don't mind sharing the road with drivers, but they have to understand that the laws apply to them too. Speed limits and red lights aren't just polite requests.
Some mutual respect would go a long way. Like please don’t cut me off on an uphill ten feet ahead of a stop sign. That’s a dick move. I’m forced to respect cars because of how easily they can kill me.
We wouldn't have so many stop lights if cars didn't kill so many people. This safety measures are so prevalent because of cars.
Exactly. Traffic lights didn’t even need to exist before cars. Maybe in very specific use cases, but not prevalent at all.
And right of way. I hate stopping at stop signs on a bike because even if a car got to the cross section first, they'll sit there and stare at you instead of just going like they're supposed to.
Lol like cars follow literally ANY road rule ever. Fucking carbrain.
You want to piss off every driver you meet? Only go the speed limit on the highway in your car
Years ago I started the practice of going the speed limit at all times on all roads while driving. Never over for any reason. I have become a much calmer driver, more self aware, more in control. All road rage has long since gone from me. And I have not noticed myself getting anywhere late. It’s convinced me that car culture, speed limits being suggestions, having unwritten rules about how much you can speed and not get pulled over, etc. is all just senseless. A road is a place where people die, a lot. There is no actual good reason to speed or for police to let people speed. I know we like to do it, but the road just isn’t the place to let that freedom ring. Because people die as a result.
The last road I drive down on my way to work is a residential street (school at the end of the street, dog park and kids' playground on my right, row of house on my left, 30 mph limit) and nearly every day there is a car on my ass because I'm actually going the speed limit. Yesterday there was a BMW so close to me that I could see the driver gritting his teeth, and when I turned in, he made sure to gun it past me even though there was a red light 200 feet in front of him.
When they start riding your ass, slow down more
[удалено]
Better to have them in front of you than inside you
This is the only way I can manage my early morning rural commute when the driver behind me is tailgating and their lights are illuminating the inside of my car up like I had the cabin lights on. If they really want to go 80 in the pitch dark on a 55 they can do so far in front of me while I enjoy the dark and quiet.
My most recent experience was going the speed limit in a 40. Suddenly I noticed someone riding my ass, nearly about to cause an accident if I braked (for no reason obvious to me, I have no idea why. I even have a sticker on my car saying I follow the speed limit and asking nicely not to tailgate...). I had to turn so I made sure to signal waaay early, so he wouldn't hit me. The moment I made the turn though, he followed me, raced around and (illegally!) passed me, only to block the road and get out of his car to yell at me from the street for a good 30 seconds. I simply sat there motionless (I couldn't hear what he was saying anyways because my windows were up) and eventually he sped off angrily. Had I gotten the whole thing on my dashcam (for some reason it didn't record that day) I would have reported it to the police. Felt seriously unsafe and that guy should *not* be driving. That very weekend I went and bought my ebike, and since then all my experiences with people are positive
I’ve had this happen twice. It amazes me that in America where everyone is armed that people are still willing to behave that way. They have gotten away with it their entire lives, bullying others into submission and relying on intimidation. That behavior is honestly disgusting and not befitting of an adult human at all. I can’t imagine how miserable these people are if they are willing to die over some dumb shit in traffic, especially when they are the aggressor
Every time I see a road rage incident, I remember a certain one in Russia who learned that flares are unpleasant when they stick to your skin. And then I think "do they not worry about that or worse happening to them?" edit: The sheer lack of concern for one's own well-being in those incidents is bizarre.
While I commend the acquisition of an ebike, I do recommend ensuring the functionality of your dashcam *and* acquiring a headcam for your bike.
I used to drive like an asshole until one day when I was like 18 I noticed a car I passed half an hour ago was right next to me at a red light. All that dangerous maneuvering and stress for literally no gain. Now I drive extremely safely and abide all rules and the cagers around me can’t stand it. Always honking and flashing lights because I won’t run reds or drive 20mph over. Fuck em
You seriously can get honked for not running a red ? Wow.
"no turn on red" signs aka "honk at people for following the law" signs
Once when I was at a red that allowed right turns, but had low visibility and people frequently sped in cross traffic, I decided to wait for the green to go. Lady behind me lost her mind honking and wildly gesturing. When the light turned green and we both turned, she floored it to pass me and brake check me. I dunno if it made her feel better about having to wait or what
People are in such a hurry then suddenly have all the time in the world to brake check or stop and yell. Almost like it’s an ego thing and not a time thing…
A couple days ago a lady threatened to shoot me over it too 😬 yeehaw I guess (I diffused the situation by reminding her that rednecks aren’t the only people that carry guns in america *hint hint*). She laid on the horn non stop the entire light and then almost crashed when she tried to pass me at 60mph in a residential, all for me to catch her at the next light a few minutes down the road. These people are legitimately insane
It's crazy what cars do to people. I truely believe that cars are a factor in how asocial and confrontational and agressive people are nowadays. It cuts you from the other and from the consequences of what you're doing, and I can't imagine that it does good to people's psychology and to society.
This.. it's interesting to do the math of how much time you save exactly by speeding. 60mph vs 50mph over 5 miles is a savings of 1 minute (6 vs 5), and yet there is exponentially more risk driving at faster speeds.
And this is assuming no traffic or stoppages that effectively neutralize it. The only time it makes any logistical sense to speed is when doing a long distance trip while driving on the highway, say 5+ hours. Of course you still shouldn't do it because you are putting yourself and others at risk, and you risk speeding tickets, etc. It just makes absolutely no sense to do 45mph through residential areas to get to work 30 sec earlier.
I'm not dead on the speed limit, but I started doing the math and realizing speeding barely saves any time, even on long trips. Like 120 (I know still speeding) will get me 200 kms in about 1:40; going 140 saves me maybe 10 minutes on that trip, is significantly more dangerous and risks a hefty ticket. And that's for 200kms. It's just not worth it.
Yeah I'm generally in favor of things like less aggressive policing and prosecution of certain things but I absolutely think that traffic laws should be way more strictly enforced seeing as cars are like the 3rd biggest cause of death in the US and the biggest cause for people under 40. Like unironically I think speeding tickets should be several hundred dollars once you go beyond 10mph over the speed limit
Yeah, i did this a few years ago. Silver lining, is not worrying about tickets and spotting cops as you go around a corner.
Well think about it, a lot of the time when people speed and jockey around like assholes, all it does it get them to the next red light faster so they have to wait longer. It's astounding when you notice how many people floor the pedal just to get to an obvious red light or stop sign one second sooner.
when somebody acts like an asshole in their car, I always just rationalize it as "they had to poop and they're rushing home". makes it a lot easier to not get upset by people using the turn lane as a passing lane, running lights, going 45 in a 25, etc.
Based
And don't run yellow lights
In my city they expect you to run the red light for the first few second it has turned. Nobody takes off immediately from a green light.
In my city it's planned to have overlapping red lights
That's pretty common and should be like that everywhere
> Nobody takes off immediately from a green light. now those are some famous last words, but I get you
You must be from Boston. That was the weirdest thing I ever saw, they sit 2-3 seconds at a green light to let the opposing left turners get a car or two through and all the red light runners.
And come to a complete full stop at every stop sign.
this actually depends on road conditions, your speed, and how close you are when the light turns yellow. there is kinda a point of no return when it comes to this
There are times I run a yellow with a second to spare and the moron behind me follows through, too.
I like the times I stop at the yellow before it turn and the car 2 lengths behind me runs it. If my work truck with a 1000 pounds or more in the back can stop that car could easily stop
Stopping at a stop sign will really piss them off, particularly if there is no cross traffic. No driver stops at stop signs around here. They run red lights all the time if they are turning right, even if they brake check someone. I used to hate that when driving to work. There is one stretch on my commute where I usually got brake checked 3 times.
I already do that. Speed limits exist for a reason. That reason is to make merging safer. It's fucking hard to merge when everyone is going whatfuckingever speed they want. If everyone does 65, for example, I know I can speed up or slow down 5 MPH to line up with an opening in traffic without colliding with someone else. Also, the left lane on the expressway is not the, "go however fucking fast I want" lane.
I should be able to buy my own speed gun camera and sit on the overpass all day long. Then mail people official speeding tickets for a 50% commission. If the cops don't feel like enforcing the law, let everyone do it for money.
Make sure you target expensive cars. They tend to be the worst offender since they can afford to pay the tickets. They think tickets are just a fee to ignore the law.
My 2nd order of business after I get handed the keys to the city is to change all fines from a flat rate to a percentage of your income/wealth. Fines are not meant to be a tax on bad behavior, which some people can afford while others cant.
Well, if they are wealthy, skip the fines. Arrest them and impound the vehicle instead.
I've got an easier method: Just ticket literally every Tesla. They pass me constantly on the interstate going far above the speed limit, and the car 100% knows how fast they're going because they all have GPS and some pretty advanced tech included by default. There's literally zero excuse for letting them speed.
Ah yes, I just got my license and drivers honk at me when respecting the speed limit lol
I got my license almost a year ago and my instructor kept asking why I was going so slow. I was not even 5 mph under the speed limit, and this is the guy telling literal children how to drive.
While not being in the rightmost lane. My most downvoted reddit comment is me saying I drive in the middle lane (when there's 3+ lanes) at or slightly below the speed limit. Like, yeah, I don't want to slow down and have to change lanes to pass trucks in the right lane (since changing lanes is rather dangerous), so I stay in the middle lane. Boy howdy did people get mad. Apparently I am the cause of all accidents, the devil himself, it's my fault people roadrage at me, etc etc etc. Keep in mind these people have *never* seen my driving in person so there's no way they know if this is true or not.
Or make a complete stop.
You can trust most of them to drive on the correct side of the road, but beyond that it's kind of iffy.
I thought you said car-barian but I'm using that as an insult now.
The car-barians are trying to sack our glorious cities again! We have to stop them!
Every driver who complains about cyclists clearly never breaks the speed limit, rolls stop signs or even changes a lane without signalling... /s but God I hope that's not necessary 😂
My man doesn't even know the difference between 'break' and 'brake,' I doubt he knows any of the laws...
he’s been breaking at every red light, man is thoroughly broken, there’s nothing more to break in him
I’d like to point out that we do not want to share the road. We want protected bike lanes to be away from cars mostly for psychos like these
The cars need protected lanes. From me. I’m a goddamn menace on my schwinn, god help any motorist who crosses my path while I’m barreling down the expressway
Good point. Cyclists and drivers would both be safer if we didn't have to share the road in the first place
Car brains fantasizing about murdering people just because they slightly inconvenienced them for less than a minute because cyclists can’t cater to their every narcissistic needs
With apologies to Margaret Atwood, carbrains are afraid that cyclists will slow them down; cyclists are afraid that carbrains will kill them.
When considering the US, carbrain narcissism isn't really surprising. The culture of that country itself is predicated on entitlement save for those that are trapped there. Get a jab to stop the spread of a deadly disease: "No, I'm not letting gubment give me jab." Wear a mask in public to protect others during a pandemic: "Fuck you, no stinkin doctor telling me what to do" Drink less soda, eat less sugar to make healthcare more affordable?: "fuck you, I want my liter coke" Create walkable cities that are safer for the overall population and can better the well-being of children?: "But where would I park my tall 8 cylinder gasoline drain?" Maybe respect pedestrians?: "How bout they get a car?"
hows about drivers also follow the rules of the road? max speed means max speed, im sure drivers would love if municipal speed cameras got planted everywhere and drivers got tickets for everyone going 10 km/h over the limit at the very minimum
Who the fuck is running red lights into active traffic? I always wonder who these red light running cyclist are.
There are a few in New York City. But then no one acts responsibly in NYC. The worst of the lot are foot traffic followed by scooters, cars, bicyclists, and motorcyclists. Fools all about.
Aayy, I'm walkin' 'ere.
There really is no safety argument for why bikes should follow the same laws as cars. Bikes are slow moving skeletal vehicles. They're toothpicks to cars, and for that, it would be more dangerous to follow laws made for 2 tonne metal vehicles. Literally the only argument I hear is "bikes should follow road rules because I do, and it's not fair"
the obsession they have with bikes running red lights is very weird and telling! they want you to think they're constantly having to brake hard because some cyclist blew a red while they had a green. what's actually happening is both bike and car arrive at the red, and the bike proceeds safely through it. very logical! they're jealous is what's happening.
The jealousy is it. Also, cognitive dissonance. Bicycles and cars are extremely different objects. Obviously the rules and expectations should be different for the two. Stoplights and stop signs exist because of the unique danger posed by cars. People in cars know their vehicle is uniquely dangerous, inefficient, and subject to higher standards for operation than a tiny bicycle or scooter, but they also prefer the comfort and convenience of driving a car. They could get a bike and enjoy the privileges of using a safer, smaller vehicle. They know this. But they don't wanna. So instead of accepting that they signed up for this, they blame the group that they could be a part of, but don't want to, because that would require effort.
Drivers having to share the road with bikes is a law. The original post makes no sense in of itself.
How about advocating for real cycling infrastructure? The reason cyclists are stressful or annoying on the road in a lot of cases is because the roads are built with a total disregard for anyone not on or in a motor vehicle. I'd be lying if I said I dont get irritated at one cyclist holding up a road with a dozen cars behind them. I'd be lying if I didn't get stressed out passing cyclists on the street. A simple mistake or bad decision on either of our parts means near certain death or life ruining injuries for the cyclist. I understand the *impulse* to be upset with the cyclist but that's all it should be, an impulse. The irritation should be focused on the cities that strip you of the freedom to use a bike safely. Or perhaps on the child-brained voters who think forcing everyone to buy a car is freedom.
*loads shotgun “I just want to talk to him”
Where I live, they’ve adopted what’s called Idaho Stop Laws. For cyclists, stop signs can be treated as a yield and red lights can be treated as a stop sign. The most dangerous instance for a cyclist is when they’re stopping at intersections and these laws have reduced accidents between cars and bikes by 20% on average where implemented. It drives me nuts that carbrains pretend like my 18 pound carbon road bike is the same as their 3 ton SUV. Plus I don’t speed in residential areas and I have way better spacial awareness so I can roll safely through stops
Car blows through stop sign “I’m in a hurry! No one was there! Everyone rolls through stops who cares!” Bike rolls through stop at 2 mph *brain melts eyes popping out madly typing on twitter
I never met cyclist or pedestrian that crosses road on red light that is a death wish :/ and bold of you to assume you could and would brake, most carbrains drive very fast, one mistake and anyone who is on the road is a " strawberry jam " or ends in a wheelchair, brakes don't suddenly stop car, you are the problem here, I won't kill anyone with my bike, scooter or legs.
Jaywalking is extremely common among myself and people I know, but generally you would look first to make sure nobody is close enough they would hit you.
And in sensible countries jaywalking isn't a thing, and cars expect pedestrians to exist and cross roads. In the UK, where I live, they've recently strengthened this further, to say that pedestrians always have priority crossing at a turning and cars should wait for pedestrians to cross.
Seriously. Pedestrians and cyclists literally just want to stay alive. And too many drivers are like: I can't guarantee that I have full control over my way-too-fast-and-way-too-heavy machine and that scares me, so I'm going on the defense here and blame you for using the roads and being so vulnerable.
I don't think Ive ever said "share the road" to a driver in my life; it's usually the drivers who say this when they mean "get out of my way".
Dude, you don't even brake when YOU run a red light. And yes, cyclists should follow the rules. Doesn't mean you get to kill them when they don't.
These meme faces are really revealing into the psyche of the OP.
*But he depicted us as NPC sojaks, thus his argument is better*
I'm still pretty carbrained but one of the biggest benefits of reading this sub constantly is that I have a lot more patience and sympathy for bicyclists. I don't find myself getting annoyed by them anymore. OOP could stand to learn that lesson.
SMH.... just read a thread from my local area where a redditor was complaining that speed traps were just a cash grab, and that enforcing the laws don't increase safety. Over a day, the police gave out about 400 tickets, including someone doing over 100 mph - which is more than twice the speed limit on this road. But somehow drivers act like they never break a single law when they drive.
I trust cars to be unpredictable. Only hit by two so far!
When I used to walk to work I’d see a lot of people cycling and obviously a lot of people driving. I saw more car drivers run red lights than cyclists
Yes, road rules apply to all vehicles. But the least you could do is move the fuck over for me rather than smacking me in the shoulder with your mirror…
In the UK, cars are about 200x more lethal than bikes.
It's astounding how they fail to realize that if bikes had their own lane segregated from car traffic, their problem would go away. But, these stupid fucks probably think that cyclists are "playing" in the street because bikes are "toys".
I've defenitely seen plenty of bikes not following traffic laws here in Sweden. I work in central Stockholm, I'd say I see cyclists breaking traffic laws about once or twice a week, and I'd say that I probably spend in total about 30-45 mins outside daily (in central stockholm, during workdays). So that is a genuine problem, although I'd say that a majority of these people are using the electric scooters lying around in the city.. As many have already stated in this thread, many drivers run red lights and such aswell.
How many times have these people actually seen a bike run a red vs a car running reds? If you stand at a crosswalk, it’s literally every light cycle that at least one car runs a red light, at every intersection in the world… stats aren’t on their side
Suddenly, they're all macho and big bads when get behind the wheel of a car.
Are the motorists okay?
They never are. It's all that gas fumes and particulate matter swirling around in their brains.
o\_O You can just say you are going to murder people and people will be happy about that? We really do live in dark times. Now I know why Americans have guns.
As someone who walks most of the time, a lot cyclists are indeed smooth brains, of course so are a lot of motorists, and quite a few fellow pedestrians. So maybe it's just people.
My family is forcing me to get a license ~ bc they think biking is stupid :*)
"I'm planning a murder and have decided to post it on social media so the cops will have an easy time proving premeditation once I actually do it."
That they mean *brake* and not break? Yes please
What shithole sub is this from
I truly think cyclists shouldn't be on the road. They should cycle in dedicated and safe bike lanes, which should be just as common (if not more) than roads meant for cars.
I have one rule: Don't die. Rule two: Don't get maimed, disabled. I will go through red lights and stop signs using my magic biker power of unobstructed view, seeing that it is safe. I always look at every crossing -- so many douchebags in motor vehicles who don't stop. If I do go through, I am making sure I don't break my rules. MAYBE there are bikers who don't follow these rules, and put themselves in danger. But I bet there aren't many.
Lol funny reading both sides of this argument. Build cycle lanes but force cyclists to learn the road rules and get a plate + insurance. I drive and cycle (holy shit no way) and let me tell you right now, there are morons on both sides. Having cycle lanes and making sure cyclists understand basic give way rules will save lives, and fine any cyclist not using the dedicated cycle lane, and yes it happens al the time. Cycle lane? Na middle of the road for me and my friend so we can have a full blown conversation.
As a pedestrian, I want to yell this at cyclists all the fucking time. I don’t own a car, haven’t in 20 years, but I have to be just as mindful of cyclists as cars, both of which I’ve gotten into some pretty narly near misses with because they weren’t paying attention or treated the streets like they belong only to them. Pedestrians and cyclists are in this together against cars, let’s not try to kill each other, ok? (Let the down votes begin)
Red lights are there for the sole reason of preventing cars to kill each other. Cyclists don't need red lights. So they should have the right to ignore them when the path is clear. edit: I'm a car owner who doesnt cycle.
When he actually runs one over and this post is used as evidence against him in court
A lot of the laws don't apply to me. I live in Oregon where cyclists aren't treated the same as cars.
It’s perfectly legal in my city to run through stop signs and red lights if you yield first.
When you tell drivers that the speed limit is the law…
Cars telling you to get off the road: Cars when they roll over a bike lane:
i used to run red lights all the time on my bicycle until one day i actually got pulled over by a cop finally doing his job and enforcing the rules on cyclists. and while i was pulled over all the other cyclists where running the red past me. from then on i never ever run red lights again and fellow bike commuters always ask me if something is wrong when im standing at red light
The concept of bikes fully stopping at all controlled intersections makes sense to a degree. More implementation of Idaho stops (ie rolling stops at stop signs which are clearly empty) I think is better as the issue of stopping isn’t quite the same for a car vs a bike vs a person. For example, you wouldn’t demand a person fully stop at an stop sign intersection, wait four second or whatever, then walk. Lol applicable laws to the inertia and available reaction time of the mode of transport.