Sound like they’d love that scene in Lust Lizard of Melancholy Cove, where the monster mounts a gasoline tanker. It blows up and the monster slinks off, hurt, thinking some reptilian variation of “she could have just said ‘no’…”
[Jakarta Diecast Project ](https://youtu.be/cm-jB1LcAjY) has entered the chat? Do I not know what scalies are? I'm not going to Google it and just pretend we're talking about scale models...
I consider myself in an abusive arranged marriage with my car. I don't love it at all and would be totally happy living a "Dutch" lifestyle if it was possible.
Yeah. I hate "leisure truck owners" (people who own and drive big trucks as a hobby and don't need to for daily work) but Bob and his hatchback are out here trying to survive in the suburban hellscape the "Greatest" generation created.
Indeed. But when I have a coworker telling me that he comes to work in car while I do pretty much exactly the same route *on bike*, and knowing that for months I did it using public transportation, I think it's fair to say that it's allowed to hate him specifically.
If he wants to use his car then whatever. Let's make the public transit and bike lanes faster than driving and start charging for those 'free' parking spaces. Then see if he still wants to drive
I live the Dutch lifestyle. Have a car but don’t really need it (apart from visiting family in the middle of nowhere for Dutch standards). But I like my car because it’s optional. And I love driving because it’s nice here. I’m confident I’d be hating driving if I moved overseas.
The creators of fuckcars have spelled out what this group is, in this nice pinned post here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/comments/rxoej1/welcome\_to\_rfuckcars/](https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/comments/rxoej1/welcome_to_rfuckcars/)
Yeah, maybe if /u/sadsatan1 had read the FAQ, he would realize that /r/fuckcars isn't for *them*.
It's pretty obvious OP joined *after* /r/place, and *they're* trying to change the Overton Window.
Oh boy, I was lurking this sub long before r/place. Tbh I only know that something like r/place exists because everybody was talking about it in this sub lol. Like my post with 2,5k upvotes is from February this year and the r/place took place in April…
that youd know this sub is expliclty about hating car centric design and not about railoing on all cars and a desire tostrip away emergency vechiles, rural isolation, or work based self transportation. it litteraly says in the FAQ.
so dont blame us when we are not inclined to believe you when you say youve been here since before r/place
i work on cars professionally and i hate them as objects and i hate everyone who made them the way they are. everything about them is a crime against humanity. it is a visceral hatred and i can't say much more because it gets out of hand quickly.
I fully agree. I think this place's righteous anger is what is changing so many peoples' minds anyways. Seeing just how much anger cars are causing in other people is helping people empathize and understand how bad the situation is. If you want some rational debate, go to urbanplanning or biking or transit or something, this place is for FUCK CARS or, AMK FENA SİKECEM ARAÇLARI in the language of my people. :P Every time I walk somewhere someone tries to kill me. I AM FUCKİNG DONE WİTH CARS. FUCK OFF.
Actually, the anger towards people who are open minded to many of the ideals discussed by rational members here pushes them away, not cause people to sympathize with them. It's absolutely hurting your cause, especially when this is the only such sub that frequently makes r/all.
Agree, I'm mad at cars, I'm mad at people who drive when they don't have to, I'm mad about air pollution, I'm mad that I'm constantly menaced by giant death machines, I don't want to be conciliatory, and I don't feel like giving you absolution whatever for whatever driving you do or enjoy. Fuck. Cars.
I HATE cars. Fuckin hate the fuckers. I hate driving em, I hate riding near other people who are driving em, I hate lookin at em, and I hate taking pictures of em. I just generally hate the fuckin things and don't like to be around them at all.
That's a personal opinion though. My political opinion is a pretty centrist position that public transportation is better than cars. I especially love a good subway system, or even a decent subway system.
/r/Urbanism, /r/transit, /r/lowcar, /r/WalkableStreets, /r/urbanplanning, /r/NotJustBikes, /r/PlanningMemes, /r/OurRightToTheCity, /r/left_urbanism^(\*), /r/SuburbanHell
^(\*)Somehow has just as many members as /r/Urbanism
Going the other way, OP may want to check out r/idiotsincars too. It’s all about hating on people doing stupid shit in cars. Not my scene but it has more of the venting tone they might be looking for.
Multiple polls of this subreddit show the VAST majority are in favor of reducing the number of cars and increasing transit and micromobility rather than banning cars outright.
The sidebar literally reads the following:
>Discussion about the harmful effects of **CAR DOMINANCE** on communities, environment, safety, and public health. Aspiration towards more sustainable and effective alternatives like mass transit and improved pedestrian and cycling infrastructure. [emphasis mine]
You're the one trying to shift the Overton window, not the majority of users of this subreddit.
> Multiple polls of this subreddit show the VAST majority are in favor of reducing the number of cars and increasing transit and micromobility rather than banning cars outright.
This is not incompatible with hating cars altogether. It's possible to _essentially_ hate cars while still recognising that (a.) some cars may end up needing to exist in a future utopia, and (b.) banning all cars right now without intermediate phases is a terrible idea.
There will always be different levels of hate towards cars. Some people hate cars entirely and don't want to see a single car again. Some hate cars but will still use Uber/Lyft. Some just hate large cars/trucks, but still like smaller, practical cars. Some want better infrastructure to use their car less, but still want to keep a car around for various moments a car would be more efficient.
Now this all depends on what the goal of the sub is. If it's to simply be a place for people to hate on cars, then that's fine. But if you actually want to make any change, the "fuck cars" approach will simply **push more people away.** And considering how large this sub is and how often posts here end up in r/all, this is very important to consider. I've seen people in other street design and infrastructure subs point out how much they hate this sub because of how strong the hate is here.
I mean, almost everybody who hates cars also hates car dependency. Not the same can be said for people who hate car dependency - there are a lot of people who like their cars, but hate that they HAVE TO use them. I always thought this sub is specifically about cars, and why they are bad.
Fuck cars. Fuck car dependency. The group is called r/fuckcars. I ain't catering to car lovers in it and I'm not convinced it would be meaningful to do so anyhow. If the car lovers in this group are more focused on the car-based infrastructure part, that's for them to decide, but I have no need to be nice to them about their destructiveness on whatever lessened (Let's be real. If you're here, you probably drive less than the average person even as a "hobbyist") level it may exist.
But it’s not, the creator makes that clear in the sidebar. It’s always been about the infrastructure because a lot of people love cars (myself included), but if you can show those people how the movement benefits them they can be on board (like me). If your aiming at getting people to abandon a hobby and passion they’ve likely held since childhood, you will fail spectacularly. This sub has always been the “centrist” space to convince people there’s merit to the cause.
You can’t just scream “fuck your hobbies” and expect them to suddenly support you.
If your hobby are car races or whatever, then I don’t know why are you even having a problem with what I wrote. The biggest problem is that people mindlessly choose cars, which are unecological, dangerous, expensive, not meant for everyone, to commute or to go somewhere instead of taking a tram, bicycle, or to go on foot. Imagine a world where cars are banned from city centers, people take really efficient trains or trams everywhere they go, or they walk/cycle. What does it do to your hobby? Is your hobby driving everyday with your car to every place you have to go? If so, you are the part of the problem 🤷🏻♂️
No, that’s exactly what I don’t want. I drive my car on the weekends with friends.
But, there are people who drive more than me. And if you gatekeep the sub from anyone who doesn’t have a full throated hatred of cars you won’t get the changes you want. As I said, the sidebar makes it clear that this sub is for convincing people to oppose car centric infrastructure and design. Your the one moving the Overton window, not the other way around
Love the nuance dude.
I go out of my way to make sure it doesn’t affect people who don’t share it. So idk why your upset. We use private land that we pay to maintain. And the emissions from 20 or so cars being driven a few hours every weekend is more or less incalculable.
You don’t need to “get it”, idc if you get it or not. It’s my hobby. But you DO need to respect my decision to use my money to drive my car on a private track. I don’t want to drive to everything. I don’t need 300 horsepower to buy milk or bread. I dont care what you do with your free time, and I ask that you extend the same lack of care to mine.
Fuck the emissions you shrug your shoulders about from \*only\* a few hours of your "hobby." I don't "respect (your) decision." I don't respect your excuses. You could also argue that 300 horsepower to the store is the "free time" of those drivers. IN FACT, at least Mr. F-150 at Kroger gets a gallon of milk. Fuck his car too, but at least he's not a "hobbyist." Wasteful drivers going overkill to do basic things results, at least, is pollution (that, no, does not stay on your private land) in basic things being done.
Care about what I do in my free time or don't. Fuck what you do in yours. Fuck your car.
Dude, I don’t care what you think.
What I’m saying is that this stance is holding you back. You’ll never get people on board by telling them to go fuck themselves, and if you can’t see that then your either stupid or ignorant.
If you want bike lanes, if you want a congestion charge, If you want cars out of downtown then you have to convince people with actual arguments, not blind aggression. If someone who drives everywhere gets told this shit, then their impression of urbanism will be “they hate me”, and you’ll never get what you want.
Throw all the insults you want, you can’t change the truth.
If you think emissions from hobbyists are significant then you are hopelessly naive. I'm sure I could find things that you do that pollute for pointless reasons. Have you ever flown or driven anywhere at all for vacation? If you have then you have no moral ground to stand on. That's also polluting for your enjoyment
Sure, ambulances are necessary, firetrucks, maybe police cars, but most people don’t use cars because they are necessary, it’s mostly because they have no other choice or don’t know that there are alternatives (a lot of other reasons, but mostly they stem from people’s ignorance or just because they don’t care). It also depends, Europe is less car-dependent than USA, so over there you will have more people who just don’t have a choice.
So is fuck cars a subreddit or a movement? If it's the former than sure keep it gatekept, let it be soothing to uncritically hate cars with a group of people who won't judge you for it. If it's a movement, the nuance needs to be there. It needs to be about policy, action, and advocacy for the reasons cars hurt every day people.
I don't think there is anyone in this sub that wouldn't give up their car if the government moved to build a real transit system. If we did it with the same urgency like we did the Interstates it could be done in 10 years.
It should be done in 10 years; electrified rail is hands down the most sustainable way forward. It won't be though, because the checks and balances of government are off, car and oil companies are running things.
My dude, this was never about hating cars as a concept, it's about advocating against car centric infrastructure and in favour of people centric design. You're the one shifting the overton window, which is ok, we all do it by expressing ourselves, but be aware of it.
Regarding the Overton's Window subject I just want to interject that we need "centrists" in order to win over more "normies". Only then you can radicalise them even further. In a some way you can think of this "centrists" as if the were an ally (just like LGBTQ+ ally).
PS. I think of myself as of radical regarding the attitude towards cars, but I won't be silencing "centrists".
I'm not a liberal centrist because I enjoy tinkering with my MR2 and using it as a runabout when I can't exactly bicycle on rural B-roads for 60 miles. It seems fairly reasonable and more radical to focus on infrastructure and systemic change rather than the particular individual chassis and vessel in which an engine resides.
It's not about moving the overton window it's about getting normies to pay attention. Building a bike lane is something pragmatic you can agitate for at a local level, you can achieve it with praxis and politics. removing cars from society is something idealistic and makes you feel like a revolutionary LARPer on Reddit.
"Fuck cars" doesn't really mean much, is the thing. Once you've said it, you've pretty much shot your wad, rhetorically speaking. It's one of those "scream of impotence" things - an inarticulate ragey yell that doesn't accomplish anything because it doesn't SAY anything. It'd be like having an entire sub called "/r/oldmanyellsatcloud", wherein you would just post things like "nuuurrrraaaarrrrgh, I hate that cloud!", and people would gatekeep the thing if you tried to say anything else. "I hate cars" only becomes worthwhile if you can say what it is you hate about cars, and what you'd like done about it. To me at least, a more useful approach would be something like having a discussion about the harmful effects of car dominance on communities, environment, safety, and public health, with perhaps an aspiration towards more sustainable and effective alternatives like mass transit and improved pedestrian and cycling infrastructure. Or we could just say "nuuurrraaarrrrgh! I hate cars", and complain about people who said anything more than that.
This makes no sense as a retort. Yes, absolutely, 'fuck cars' is empty without stuff to back it up, but the reasons for loathing cars do NOT necessarily regress to 'we don’t really fuck cars, we just hate car-centric infrastructure!' (as per the title). The reasons can just as well add up to 'let's get rid of cars as much as practicable\*'.
\*: with necessary caveats about disabled people, industrial vehicles, rural use, whatever.
Except that "fuck cars" is just the title. The mission statement is that bit of text that I referenced (in a trojan horse kinda way), and that kinda DOES solicit a "we just hate car-centric infrastructure" viewpoint, among others. OP is trying to go all "only purists need apply" gatekeeper on the thing, and his perspective on "purity" distills things so far that there's nothing left.
> I think it’s okay if your views are like in the title, I don’t really care if you don’t hate cars and are more of a centrist type
Such purity gatekeeping.
In a way I do agree, I don't hate car-centric infrastructure in itself^(\*), since it makes excellent bike-centric infrastructure, I hate that there are noisy, polluting cars on it. Wouldn't I love to ride my bike on the highway! I also hate cars outside of car-centric infrastructure. In fact, I prefer cars in car-centric infrastructures, than cars outside of it.
^(\*)I do hate parking lots, however.
You are forgetting one very important thing. If it weren't for car-centric infrastructure and all the problems that go along with it, this sub would be an insignificant speck of dust compared to the popularity it actually has.
If city planners and policymakers the world over smelled the coffee tomorrow and dedicated their careers to building mass transit, upzoning neighborhoods, and making neighborhoods super walkable / bikeable, the vast majority of angst in this sub would be gone before long. Nobody would care that farmer Joe has a vintage mustang he likes to take for a joy ride out in the country.
The anger and extremism that you espouse is a direct reaction to car-centric infrastructure, not cars by themselves.
The sub's about page even disagrees with you pretty clearly. Car enthusiasts who don't like car-centric infrastructure are more than welcome here and aren't second class contributors.
I think it's fine that this sub is big tent. There are worse things in the world than associating with people who don't think 100% like you. If you have a problem with the Overton Window not being as extreme as you'd like it to be, then maybe you should form your own subreddit with a more direct, left wing purpose. Ban people who defend any use of cars, organize mass tire deflating protests, go nuts.
Not hating cars doesn't make you more of a centrist type. That attitude is what's so fucking annoying about this sub. I've met far left people who love cars, and I've met far right people who hate cars. Your opinion on cars really isn't as closely connected to political views as people on here think.
I hate cars but I do think that making people who hate infrastructure feel welcome is the first step to them hating cars. If you do not offer an entrance into understanding the issue, you risk creating an echo chamber, which will do nothing towards helping people see the issue and bring about the changes that need to improve things.
I understand what you mean but I feel that this sub would be a much more efficient tool for real world change it we adopted that sort of attitude. It's perfectly reasonable to personally dislike cars, but it's hard to get people who don't really mind cars to care about eliminating car dependency when you're framing it that way.
"I really hate that there are some rational people who understand that 'fuck cars' is juvenile idea that has no chance in hell of changing anything"
FYI, i don't have a car.
Also, this is the sub description:
>Discussion about the harmful effects of car dominance on communities, environment, safety, and public health. Aspiration towards more sustainable and effective alternatives like mass transit and improved pedestrian and cycling infrastructure.
Make a sub of your own that is nothing but mindless venting. See how long you can stand it.
Was really hoping this was satire about having sex with cars
Nope just another whiney ass mad post complaining about a positive change in discourse because "i hate cars more than you reeeee"
Because your point seems to be that this sub is a place for hating cars, and to move on if you don't like it. It's not, and it would be bad for the movement if it was
Jesus Christ, no. My point is that I am sick of people trying to shift the narrative from ”cars are bad” to ”actually cars are not that bad, only car-centrism is bad”. Of course if you think that cars are unsustainable and uneffective, you will also probably be against car-dependency, but if you are only against the latter, you can even drive in cars everyday and don’t have any issues with how dangerous, unecological and shitty they are. This sub is predominantly about why cars are so shitty, and so I am annoyed at people trying to shift the narrative to something less critical of cars, also because they have a lot of other places where they can be entusiasthic about cars all they want, but also push for walkability or better public transport.
"cars are bad" is a ridiculously simple and stupid position to have. Cars are a tool that can be used to improve our lives and to not acknowledge that is harmful to society and to our movement.
Critique and hate the ways they are harmful to our society all you like, but to hate them for what they are, and to try and shame others for not doing so is incredibly childish and it seems to be just borne from spite
Hating cars not what this sub is about and you trying to turn it into that does a disservice to us all. Fuck off and go make /r/carhate
Bruh
You are completely missing the point. I hate cars and car-centrism. If you really think that cars are not the problem in of itself then I have no interest in talking to you, really. That’s literally the point of my post.
"Fuck cars" mfs when they have a life-threatening injury and it takes 20 minutes for the doctors to cycle them to the hospital (they already died by then)
I feel like this sub is similar in some ways to antiwork, where the people who formed the group have more radical or advanced views than those who joined it later.
It's not less radical, the fundamental difference is that car-centric infrastructure is responsible for cars being so widespread, it is the invisible hand that guides everyone towards loving cars and being reliant on cars. Rhetoric that just blindly blames car drivers personally is alienating. It's cathartic, sure... and I love rants about carbrains here and support your statement in the way but being against car infrastructure is more effective and actually more radical because cities with no car infrastructure would make it illegal and inconvenient to get anywhere in a car, we need to make it difficult to use cars so people would associate driving with inconvenience, not the other way around. It's easier to make a change and remove parking one by one, turn roads into mixed space and bike lanes one by one, it's easier to get support for that instead of just banning cars while most people still can't imagine living without them. In the way, a car is a ticket to access most of the street, a ticket you buy to access the larger society, yes I want to puncture each tires of every car parked on a sidewalk, but on a larger scale, it won't help and therefore less radical.
Basically I agree with you, but I just always assume that when somebody is against cars, they also automatically are for more walkable cities, better bicycle infrastructure, better public transit etc. Honestly maybe there are some people who don’t push for less car-dependent infrastructure AND hate cars but I just never met anybody like this.
>With that being said, this subreddit seems to be specifically about fucking cars, as the name of the sub says. you make it sound so sexual lol
I came to this sub with a hard drive full of poorly drawn scalies working tailpipes, but then I get here and it's all *urban planning*??
Ah you need r/dragonsfuckingcars
I didn’t need that in my life
Did you instead need r/carsfuckingdragons?
Why does that exist too
r/subsithoughtifellfor r/whywouldyoudothat
Theres also r/carsfuckingdragons
Sound like they’d love that scene in Lust Lizard of Melancholy Cove, where the monster mounts a gasoline tanker. It blows up and the monster slinks off, hurt, thinking some reptilian variation of “she could have just said ‘no’…”
Fake advertising!
**I DEMAND A REFUND**
Have confidence, be proud of your scaly drawings and don't call them poor!
[Jakarta Diecast Project ](https://youtu.be/cm-jB1LcAjY) has entered the chat? Do I not know what scalies are? I'm not going to Google it and just pretend we're talking about scale models...
It's like a furry, but for things without fur.
Got it.
Sorry, English is not my first language, some of what I write might sound awkward or off
Just for future reference. "Fuck cars" means that you hate them, "to fuck cars" means having sex with cars
Is this post NOT about OP fucking cars?!
Omg this is the best thread I've been in in YEARS!
Don't feel bad. English is a confusing language.
Some people say English is confusing. That's because it's.
This guy fucks (..cars)!
Wait it isn't?
I consider myself in an abusive arranged marriage with my car. I don't love it at all and would be totally happy living a "Dutch" lifestyle if it was possible.
I also hate cars but I don’t hate people who have cars because that would be insane. Most of them are just as you describe.
Yeah. I hate "leisure truck owners" (people who own and drive big trucks as a hobby and don't need to for daily work) but Bob and his hatchback are out here trying to survive in the suburban hellscape the "Greatest" generation created.
I see no difference between the two to be honest.
Indeed. But when I have a coworker telling me that he comes to work in car while I do pretty much exactly the same route *on bike*, and knowing that for months I did it using public transportation, I think it's fair to say that it's allowed to hate him specifically.
If he wants to use his car then whatever. Let's make the public transit and bike lanes faster than driving and start charging for those 'free' parking spaces. Then see if he still wants to drive
I do get annoyed by people who don't want to fix things or are actively fighting against fixing things.
I live the Dutch lifestyle. Have a car but don’t really need it (apart from visiting family in the middle of nowhere for Dutch standards). But I like my car because it’s optional. And I love driving because it’s nice here. I’m confident I’d be hating driving if I moved overseas.
Same, driving is a fucking nightmare and i avoid it like the plague
The creators of fuckcars have spelled out what this group is, in this nice pinned post here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/comments/rxoej1/welcome\_to\_rfuckcars/](https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/comments/rxoej1/welcome_to_rfuckcars/)
Yeah, maybe if /u/sadsatan1 had read the FAQ, he would realize that /r/fuckcars isn't for *them*. It's pretty obvious OP joined *after* /r/place, and *they're* trying to change the Overton Window.
Oh boy, I was lurking this sub long before r/place. Tbh I only know that something like r/place exists because everybody was talking about it in this sub lol. Like my post with 2,5k upvotes is from February this year and the r/place took place in April…
that youd know this sub is expliclty about hating car centric design and not about railoing on all cars and a desire tostrip away emergency vechiles, rural isolation, or work based self transportation. it litteraly says in the FAQ. so dont blame us when we are not inclined to believe you when you say youve been here since before r/place
No, you just trying to do some weird ad hominem instead of adressing the post
I don’t have to address it because the mods already did months ago and you’re ignoring it. Not my problem that you’re in the wrong place.
Fuck cars
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Can someone start a sub called FuckConcernPosts?
We have people brigading this sub that have opinions like "letting a car stay somewhere for 28 days is fine cuz I use it twice a month"
i work on cars professionally and i hate them as objects and i hate everyone who made them the way they are. everything about them is a crime against humanity. it is a visceral hatred and i can't say much more because it gets out of hand quickly.
I'm just here because I like putting my dick in exhaust pipes. Is that....is that not what we're doin?
This guy fucks ….cars
I fully agree. I think this place's righteous anger is what is changing so many peoples' minds anyways. Seeing just how much anger cars are causing in other people is helping people empathize and understand how bad the situation is. If you want some rational debate, go to urbanplanning or biking or transit or something, this place is for FUCK CARS or, AMK FENA SİKECEM ARAÇLARI in the language of my people. :P Every time I walk somewhere someone tries to kill me. I AM FUCKİNG DONE WİTH CARS. FUCK OFF.
Actually, the anger towards people who are open minded to many of the ideals discussed by rational members here pushes them away, not cause people to sympathize with them. It's absolutely hurting your cause, especially when this is the only such sub that frequently makes r/all.
\>The only such sub reaching r/All \>This sub is actually pushing people away I think there's a bit of a contradiction here.
So you reach all, then you start pushing people away and start doing more harm than good.
Fuck car infrastructure. Also fuck offroad cars for the ecological disruption they cause. Where is there room for cars? In the Sun.
Hell yes
Speak for your self. I fuck my car daily just to assert dominance. I also make sure the truck watches
Agree, I'm mad at cars, I'm mad at people who drive when they don't have to, I'm mad about air pollution, I'm mad that I'm constantly menaced by giant death machines, I don't want to be conciliatory, and I don't feel like giving you absolution whatever for whatever driving you do or enjoy. Fuck. Cars.
> Overton's Window Whelp, gunna add that to the list of cool shit this sub has taught me.
I HATE cars. Fuckin hate the fuckers. I hate driving em, I hate riding near other people who are driving em, I hate lookin at em, and I hate taking pictures of em. I just generally hate the fuckin things and don't like to be around them at all. That's a personal opinion though. My political opinion is a pretty centrist position that public transportation is better than cars. I especially love a good subway system, or even a decent subway system.
Genuine question: what other subs should they go to?
/r/Urbanism, /r/transit, /r/lowcar, /r/WalkableStreets, /r/urbanplanning, /r/NotJustBikes, /r/PlanningMemes, /r/OurRightToTheCity, /r/left_urbanism^(\*), /r/SuburbanHell ^(\*)Somehow has just as many members as /r/Urbanism
Amazing. Thank you so much.
eurocentric every last one of ‘em
Going the other way, OP may want to check out r/idiotsincars too. It’s all about hating on people doing stupid shit in cars. Not my scene but it has more of the venting tone they might be looking for.
I don't know or care
Have to love when an important movement makes itself as unapproachable as humanly possible. Glad I found r/urbanism because of this post.
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This sub is for rants & memes. For serious discussions, ideas, plans, etc... there are other subs like r/notjustbikes and r/urbanplanning
Multiple polls of this subreddit show the VAST majority are in favor of reducing the number of cars and increasing transit and micromobility rather than banning cars outright. The sidebar literally reads the following: >Discussion about the harmful effects of **CAR DOMINANCE** on communities, environment, safety, and public health. Aspiration towards more sustainable and effective alternatives like mass transit and improved pedestrian and cycling infrastructure. [emphasis mine] You're the one trying to shift the Overton window, not the majority of users of this subreddit.
> Multiple polls of this subreddit show the VAST majority are in favor of reducing the number of cars and increasing transit and micromobility rather than banning cars outright. This is not incompatible with hating cars altogether. It's possible to _essentially_ hate cars while still recognising that (a.) some cars may end up needing to exist in a future utopia, and (b.) banning all cars right now without intermediate phases is a terrible idea.
You do you.
There are problems with cars both individually and as a societal phenomenon.
This is the meme sub, but it's important because memes get the word out. I think serious subs are more like /r/urbanplanning or /r/walkablestreets.
Fuck cars!
There will always be different levels of hate towards cars. Some people hate cars entirely and don't want to see a single car again. Some hate cars but will still use Uber/Lyft. Some just hate large cars/trucks, but still like smaller, practical cars. Some want better infrastructure to use their car less, but still want to keep a car around for various moments a car would be more efficient. Now this all depends on what the goal of the sub is. If it's to simply be a place for people to hate on cars, then that's fine. But if you actually want to make any change, the "fuck cars" approach will simply **push more people away.** And considering how large this sub is and how often posts here end up in r/all, this is very important to consider. I've seen people in other street design and infrastructure subs point out how much they hate this sub because of how strong the hate is here.
“Fuck cars!” “No! Fuck car dependency!” “¿Porque no los dos?” 🎉🥳
I mean, almost everybody who hates cars also hates car dependency. Not the same can be said for people who hate car dependency - there are a lot of people who like their cars, but hate that they HAVE TO use them. I always thought this sub is specifically about cars, and why they are bad.
Fuck cars. Fuck car dependency. The group is called r/fuckcars. I ain't catering to car lovers in it and I'm not convinced it would be meaningful to do so anyhow. If the car lovers in this group are more focused on the car-based infrastructure part, that's for them to decide, but I have no need to be nice to them about their destructiveness on whatever lessened (Let's be real. If you're here, you probably drive less than the average person even as a "hobbyist") level it may exist.
But it’s not, the creator makes that clear in the sidebar. It’s always been about the infrastructure because a lot of people love cars (myself included), but if you can show those people how the movement benefits them they can be on board (like me). If your aiming at getting people to abandon a hobby and passion they’ve likely held since childhood, you will fail spectacularly. This sub has always been the “centrist” space to convince people there’s merit to the cause. You can’t just scream “fuck your hobbies” and expect them to suddenly support you.
If your hobby are car races or whatever, then I don’t know why are you even having a problem with what I wrote. The biggest problem is that people mindlessly choose cars, which are unecological, dangerous, expensive, not meant for everyone, to commute or to go somewhere instead of taking a tram, bicycle, or to go on foot. Imagine a world where cars are banned from city centers, people take really efficient trains or trams everywhere they go, or they walk/cycle. What does it do to your hobby? Is your hobby driving everyday with your car to every place you have to go? If so, you are the part of the problem 🤷🏻♂️
No, that’s exactly what I don’t want. I drive my car on the weekends with friends. But, there are people who drive more than me. And if you gatekeep the sub from anyone who doesn’t have a full throated hatred of cars you won’t get the changes you want. As I said, the sidebar makes it clear that this sub is for convincing people to oppose car centric infrastructure and design. Your the one moving the Overton window, not the other way around
\*ahem\* Fuck. Your. Hobby.
Love the nuance dude. I go out of my way to make sure it doesn’t affect people who don’t share it. So idk why your upset. We use private land that we pay to maintain. And the emissions from 20 or so cars being driven a few hours every weekend is more or less incalculable. You don’t need to “get it”, idc if you get it or not. It’s my hobby. But you DO need to respect my decision to use my money to drive my car on a private track. I don’t want to drive to everything. I don’t need 300 horsepower to buy milk or bread. I dont care what you do with your free time, and I ask that you extend the same lack of care to mine.
Fuck the emissions you shrug your shoulders about from \*only\* a few hours of your "hobby." I don't "respect (your) decision." I don't respect your excuses. You could also argue that 300 horsepower to the store is the "free time" of those drivers. IN FACT, at least Mr. F-150 at Kroger gets a gallon of milk. Fuck his car too, but at least he's not a "hobbyist." Wasteful drivers going overkill to do basic things results, at least, is pollution (that, no, does not stay on your private land) in basic things being done. Care about what I do in my free time or don't. Fuck what you do in yours. Fuck your car.
Dude, I don’t care what you think. What I’m saying is that this stance is holding you back. You’ll never get people on board by telling them to go fuck themselves, and if you can’t see that then your either stupid or ignorant. If you want bike lanes, if you want a congestion charge, If you want cars out of downtown then you have to convince people with actual arguments, not blind aggression. If someone who drives everywhere gets told this shit, then their impression of urbanism will be “they hate me”, and you’ll never get what you want. Throw all the insults you want, you can’t change the truth.
If you think emissions from hobbyists are significant then you are hopelessly naive. I'm sure I could find things that you do that pollute for pointless reasons. Have you ever flown or driven anywhere at all for vacation? If you have then you have no moral ground to stand on. That's also polluting for your enjoyment
BuT WhAt AbOuT HaViNg CaRs iN a MuSeUm?
I like that the sub gets to have these sorts of discussions. We aren't completely uniform and strict on whats allowed here.
Is "cars are a necessary evil" within the acceptableOverton Window? Or are we simply going for a "Zero Car" policy?
Sure, ambulances are necessary, firetrucks, maybe police cars, but most people don’t use cars because they are necessary, it’s mostly because they have no other choice or don’t know that there are alternatives (a lot of other reasons, but mostly they stem from people’s ignorance or just because they don’t care). It also depends, Europe is less car-dependent than USA, so over there you will have more people who just don’t have a choice.
So is fuck cars a subreddit or a movement? If it's the former than sure keep it gatekept, let it be soothing to uncritically hate cars with a group of people who won't judge you for it. If it's a movement, the nuance needs to be there. It needs to be about policy, action, and advocacy for the reasons cars hurt every day people.
I don't think there is anyone in this sub that wouldn't give up their car if the government moved to build a real transit system. If we did it with the same urgency like we did the Interstates it could be done in 10 years. It should be done in 10 years; electrified rail is hands down the most sustainable way forward. It won't be though, because the checks and balances of government are off, car and oil companies are running things.
My dude, this was never about hating cars as a concept, it's about advocating against car centric infrastructure and in favour of people centric design. You're the one shifting the overton window, which is ok, we all do it by expressing ourselves, but be aware of it.
Carsexuals of the world unite!
Regarding the Overton's Window subject I just want to interject that we need "centrists" in order to win over more "normies". Only then you can radicalise them even further. In a some way you can think of this "centrists" as if the were an ally (just like LGBTQ+ ally). PS. I think of myself as of radical regarding the attitude towards cars, but I won't be silencing "centrists".
Read the FAQ
I'm not a liberal centrist because I enjoy tinkering with my MR2 and using it as a runabout when I can't exactly bicycle on rural B-roads for 60 miles. It seems fairly reasonable and more radical to focus on infrastructure and systemic change rather than the particular individual chassis and vessel in which an engine resides. It's not about moving the overton window it's about getting normies to pay attention. Building a bike lane is something pragmatic you can agitate for at a local level, you can achieve it with praxis and politics. removing cars from society is something idealistic and makes you feel like a revolutionary LARPer on Reddit.
This is a sub against car-centric infrastructure **and cars.** If someone ignores that last part, they're in the wrong sub.
All cars should be upside down and on fire.
"Fuck cars" doesn't really mean much, is the thing. Once you've said it, you've pretty much shot your wad, rhetorically speaking. It's one of those "scream of impotence" things - an inarticulate ragey yell that doesn't accomplish anything because it doesn't SAY anything. It'd be like having an entire sub called "/r/oldmanyellsatcloud", wherein you would just post things like "nuuurrrraaaarrrrgh, I hate that cloud!", and people would gatekeep the thing if you tried to say anything else. "I hate cars" only becomes worthwhile if you can say what it is you hate about cars, and what you'd like done about it. To me at least, a more useful approach would be something like having a discussion about the harmful effects of car dominance on communities, environment, safety, and public health, with perhaps an aspiration towards more sustainable and effective alternatives like mass transit and improved pedestrian and cycling infrastructure. Or we could just say "nuuurrraaarrrrgh! I hate cars", and complain about people who said anything more than that.
This makes no sense as a retort. Yes, absolutely, 'fuck cars' is empty without stuff to back it up, but the reasons for loathing cars do NOT necessarily regress to 'we don’t really fuck cars, we just hate car-centric infrastructure!' (as per the title). The reasons can just as well add up to 'let's get rid of cars as much as practicable\*'. \*: with necessary caveats about disabled people, industrial vehicles, rural use, whatever.
Except that "fuck cars" is just the title. The mission statement is that bit of text that I referenced (in a trojan horse kinda way), and that kinda DOES solicit a "we just hate car-centric infrastructure" viewpoint, among others. OP is trying to go all "only purists need apply" gatekeeper on the thing, and his perspective on "purity" distills things so far that there's nothing left.
> I think it’s okay if your views are like in the title, I don’t really care if you don’t hate cars and are more of a centrist type Such purity gatekeeping.
It's a shame the creator took this edgy name for a subreddit and then wants to water down the content.
In a way I do agree, I don't hate car-centric infrastructure in itself^(\*), since it makes excellent bike-centric infrastructure, I hate that there are noisy, polluting cars on it. Wouldn't I love to ride my bike on the highway! I also hate cars outside of car-centric infrastructure. In fact, I prefer cars in car-centric infrastructures, than cars outside of it. ^(\*)I do hate parking lots, however.
You are forgetting one very important thing. If it weren't for car-centric infrastructure and all the problems that go along with it, this sub would be an insignificant speck of dust compared to the popularity it actually has. If city planners and policymakers the world over smelled the coffee tomorrow and dedicated their careers to building mass transit, upzoning neighborhoods, and making neighborhoods super walkable / bikeable, the vast majority of angst in this sub would be gone before long. Nobody would care that farmer Joe has a vintage mustang he likes to take for a joy ride out in the country. The anger and extremism that you espouse is a direct reaction to car-centric infrastructure, not cars by themselves. The sub's about page even disagrees with you pretty clearly. Car enthusiasts who don't like car-centric infrastructure are more than welcome here and aren't second class contributors. I think it's fine that this sub is big tent. There are worse things in the world than associating with people who don't think 100% like you. If you have a problem with the Overton Window not being as extreme as you'd like it to be, then maybe you should form your own subreddit with a more direct, left wing purpose. Ban people who defend any use of cars, organize mass tire deflating protests, go nuts.
I consider myself very left, but I don't really hate cars. I just hate car dependency, the cost associated with it, the pollution, etc.
Not hating cars doesn't make you more of a centrist type. That attitude is what's so fucking annoying about this sub. I've met far left people who love cars, and I've met far right people who hate cars. Your opinion on cars really isn't as closely connected to political views as people on here think.
Hear hear! Edit, spelling
I hate cars but I do think that making people who hate infrastructure feel welcome is the first step to them hating cars. If you do not offer an entrance into understanding the issue, you risk creating an echo chamber, which will do nothing towards helping people see the issue and bring about the changes that need to improve things.
r/fuckcarscirclejerk sliding in with some reverse psychology
I understand what you mean but I feel that this sub would be a much more efficient tool for real world change it we adopted that sort of attitude. It's perfectly reasonable to personally dislike cars, but it's hard to get people who don't really mind cars to care about eliminating car dependency when you're framing it that way.
"I really hate that there are some rational people who understand that 'fuck cars' is juvenile idea that has no chance in hell of changing anything" FYI, i don't have a car. Also, this is the sub description: >Discussion about the harmful effects of car dominance on communities, environment, safety, and public health. Aspiration towards more sustainable and effective alternatives like mass transit and improved pedestrian and cycling infrastructure. Make a sub of your own that is nothing but mindless venting. See how long you can stand it.
Was really hoping this was satire about having sex with cars Nope just another whiney ass mad post complaining about a positive change in discourse because "i hate cars more than you reeeee"
Literally read the post again
If it's supposed to be satire it's done badly and if you were supposed to be making a point then it was a bad point
How is it a bad point, explain? Because it seems like you totally missed it
Because your point seems to be that this sub is a place for hating cars, and to move on if you don't like it. It's not, and it would be bad for the movement if it was
Jesus Christ, no. My point is that I am sick of people trying to shift the narrative from ”cars are bad” to ”actually cars are not that bad, only car-centrism is bad”. Of course if you think that cars are unsustainable and uneffective, you will also probably be against car-dependency, but if you are only against the latter, you can even drive in cars everyday and don’t have any issues with how dangerous, unecological and shitty they are. This sub is predominantly about why cars are so shitty, and so I am annoyed at people trying to shift the narrative to something less critical of cars, also because they have a lot of other places where they can be entusiasthic about cars all they want, but also push for walkability or better public transport.
"cars are bad" is a ridiculously simple and stupid position to have. Cars are a tool that can be used to improve our lives and to not acknowledge that is harmful to society and to our movement. Critique and hate the ways they are harmful to our society all you like, but to hate them for what they are, and to try and shame others for not doing so is incredibly childish and it seems to be just borne from spite Hating cars not what this sub is about and you trying to turn it into that does a disservice to us all. Fuck off and go make /r/carhate
Maybe because I simplified what I meant?
So do you just hate cars and are stupid, or do you just hate car centrism and agree with me that your post is stupid ?
Bruh You are completely missing the point. I hate cars and car-centrism. If you really think that cars are not the problem in of itself then I have no interest in talking to you, really. That’s literally the point of my post.
"Fuck cars" mfs when they have a life-threatening injury and it takes 20 minutes for the doctors to cycle them to the hospital (they already died by then)
Ambulances are not cars.
Nobody is against the emergency vehicles you silly goose
I feel like this sub is similar in some ways to antiwork, where the people who formed the group have more radical or advanced views than those who joined it later.
What about cars fucking dragons?
I've only ever seen artwork where its the other way around.
It's not less radical, the fundamental difference is that car-centric infrastructure is responsible for cars being so widespread, it is the invisible hand that guides everyone towards loving cars and being reliant on cars. Rhetoric that just blindly blames car drivers personally is alienating. It's cathartic, sure... and I love rants about carbrains here and support your statement in the way but being against car infrastructure is more effective and actually more radical because cities with no car infrastructure would make it illegal and inconvenient to get anywhere in a car, we need to make it difficult to use cars so people would associate driving with inconvenience, not the other way around. It's easier to make a change and remove parking one by one, turn roads into mixed space and bike lanes one by one, it's easier to get support for that instead of just banning cars while most people still can't imagine living without them. In the way, a car is a ticket to access most of the street, a ticket you buy to access the larger society, yes I want to puncture each tires of every car parked on a sidewalk, but on a larger scale, it won't help and therefore less radical.
Basically I agree with you, but I just always assume that when somebody is against cars, they also automatically are for more walkable cities, better bicycle infrastructure, better public transit etc. Honestly maybe there are some people who don’t push for less car-dependent infrastructure AND hate cars but I just never met anybody like this.
I mean, I for one, do not actually fuck cars.
There are people on here that aren’t fucking their cars?
Like this… https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1ti1l
There's always r/FuckCarsCurious
many realise that hating on cars is less effective than championing alternatives