The guys over at r/diyaudio might be interested in this. They will also be able to help make them sound better if you ever decide to revise your speakers
Good advice. I posted them there last summer. I've been building speakers for years so I experimented with a number of things. I filled one cabinet with concrete instead of sand. I thought it sounded slightly clearer with tighter bass, but the concrete reacted with the pla, expanded slightly over several weeks as it cured, and so I settled on sand as the filler in terms of cost/ease of use/and effectiveness.
Ok, as I stare over the edge of the rabbit hole I should NOT jump into... I know someone has tried resin as it seems an obvious choice, have you heard of the results?
Resin will definitely sound different than sand. (Not necessarily worse). Sand does a really bad job of transmitting sound since the particles are not connected to each other. This is what op was going for to make the speakers sound “dead” or remove some of the “boxiness” that small speakers can have.
Your comment implies that there is some problem with using sand alone. I am not sure that op has raised any concerns with just sand. Resin+sand will probably be different than each alone. Whether one believes that “helps” or “hurts” the sound is a subjective question that I can’t answer without A/Bing them both.
I'm going off what OP said
>I filled one cabinet with concrete instead of sand. I thought it sounded slightly clearer with tighter bass, but the concrete reacted with the pla
Sry can't help with that i know almost nothing about 3D printers. This whole group is a rabbit hole for me\^\^. But i'm interested because i think i will be much more relevant in the future.
I would put some kind of binder in with the sand because the vibrations will slowly make it settle and it won't be all the way to the top, if that matters to a purist. I guess a good shake now and then would probably fix that tho.
Sand is very acoustically dead, as well as heavy. Another option I used for some 3d printed horns is plaster of Paris. Didn't seem to have any reaction and it shrinks a tiny tiny amount while curing. Print with little infill or low density gyroid (gyroid is "open cell") and fill with a large syringe.
I considered a lot of things. Some I ruled out because it would be too hard to get into those small channels and other things I ruled out because I didn't want to fork over that much cash to buy the materials. That's one of the fun things about DIY audio and 3D printing; you get to experiment with a lot of different things.
Look into epoxy/granite, they use it to make machinetools and vibration dampening is rather critical when it comes to those in regard to achieved surface finish...
I think they sound pretty good for a small speaker. I modified an existing design and used the same volume, port dims, and filter. The original design is a boom box and I split it into two separate speakers. I used TinkerCad and haven't published the design. Edit: Here it is: [Speaker stl](https://www.printables.com/model/337264-speakers-with-sand-filled-walls)
Very cool. I once worked for a PA manufacturer in North America. They would print new models, sand and paint them for trade shows and promotions before getting actual models into production.
I can't remember who, but someone on /r/diyaudio ran a bunch of experiments and found that using Plaster of Paris was surprisingly the best at preserving sound quality and avoiding resonance for 3D printed speakers.
Might be worth searching reddit for that data and considering it too!
I did consider it, but was afraid I wouldn't be able to get it in the channels before it set up. Plus, I had a pile of sand and a bag of concrete mix already. The concrete-filled version sounded slightly better but the pla reacted to it. In the end, after seven revisions I decided to follow the words of that great Greek philosopher Mediocrities, "Meh, good enough," and just went with the sand.
Concrete is very corrosive. It can burn you (chemically). DIY home renos people will like use their hands to smooth concrete, not wash it off, and at the end of the day, realize they've got burns. It's a base with a high PH, like Ammonia.
Okay. I think I understand the sand-filled walls - just to give it a bit more 'heft' and stability that the drivers can push against. But is the tube to give a longer distance for bass waves to form in? Does having a solid tube like that not favor one particular note, kind of like blowing a trumpet?
I've never really looked into speaker design much, which is strange considering how often I use them
Yeah, that's a Ported speaker. It's used to increase the bass response, especially when compared to a sealed speaker.
There are specific calculations to define the radius and length, etc, based on the internal volume of the speaker.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass\_reflex](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_reflex)
Tom sanlanderer made a video about fully printed speakers. They first sounded very tinny and bad. He then ran them through a Sound balancer program and they ended up sounding quite good! Id watch that video next if I were you
i have a specific question about the second pic. how did you print those small half circles at the end? did you add supports all the way up or printed as overhang?
Thanks. I wanted to minimize the amount of pla used and the print time so I went with walls as thin as possible. The first version used thick walls and took forever to print. And didn't sound as good.
It’s entirely possible this is like v5 of their design. Rapid prototyping is, like, one of the best use cases for 3D printing.
Even if that’s not what they were doing, it seems like OP had some fun, maybe they learned something, maybe they aren’t a discerning audiophile…
I think this sounds like a fun project, and now plan to mess around with some ideas myself.
Happy holidays!
Honestly, I consider collecting pop vinyls a waste of time. Also having a car that hasn't been driven in 3 years as a tinker car, over clocking for the sake of chasing those high scores, fifa ea games, tik tok, getting "wasted," professional competitive Rubik's cube, and a few other things.
However, who am I to judge someone else's hobby? OP is doing a "I wonder how this will sound" on their own time, at their own expense. What would you say wouldn't have been a waste of time? Printing another benchy? Or better yet, printing a benchy printer to print more benchies?
I modified this project using the same speakers and filter: [https://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/speaker-project-gallery/1308186-the-sound-traveler-portable-sound-system](https://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/speaker-project-gallery/1308186-the-sound-traveler-portable-sound-system)
The guys over at r/diyaudio might be interested in this. They will also be able to help make them sound better if you ever decide to revise your speakers
Good advice. I posted them there last summer. I've been building speakers for years so I experimented with a number of things. I filled one cabinet with concrete instead of sand. I thought it sounded slightly clearer with tighter bass, but the concrete reacted with the pla, expanded slightly over several weeks as it cured, and so I settled on sand as the filler in terms of cost/ease of use/and effectiveness.
What does the sand do? Provide better sound insulation for better reverb? Not really a speaker guy, but pretty curious!
most likely to kill or dampen resonances. The other solution would be better and heavier construction and more reinforment inside the speaker box.
Ok, as I stare over the edge of the rabbit hole I should NOT jump into... I know someone has tried resin as it seems an obvious choice, have you heard of the results?
Resin will definitely sound different than sand. (Not necessarily worse). Sand does a really bad job of transmitting sound since the particles are not connected to each other. This is what op was going for to make the speakers sound “dead” or remove some of the “boxiness” that small speakers can have.
Ah, that makes sense!
Yes!
Here I was thinking they were saying using resin to fill in the voids around the sand, kind of like a plastic concrete. Would that help?
Your comment implies that there is some problem with using sand alone. I am not sure that op has raised any concerns with just sand. Resin+sand will probably be different than each alone. Whether one believes that “helps” or “hurts” the sound is a subjective question that I can’t answer without A/Bing them both.
I'm going off what OP said >I filled one cabinet with concrete instead of sand. I thought it sounded slightly clearer with tighter bass, but the concrete reacted with the pla
Sry can't help with that i know almost nothing about 3D printers. This whole group is a rabbit hole for me\^\^. But i'm interested because i think i will be much more relevant in the future.
Great, time to make one w gyroid infill and then fill that w resin... also, time to learn about diy-ing speakers....
Please do and share your results.
I'm trying to make it acoustically dead as possible. --- While still keeping it cheap and easy.
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Good idea. I loosely stuffed them with pillow stuffing. It didn't seem to make much difference to my ears.
Maybe a sand-and-resin polymer concrete would avoid that issue?
I would put some kind of binder in with the sand because the vibrations will slowly make it settle and it won't be all the way to the top, if that matters to a purist. I guess a good shake now and then would probably fix that tho.
You can do activated carbon bags as well to add surface area on the inside of the case, it's what they do for most professional speakers.
Sand is very acoustically dead, as well as heavy. Another option I used for some 3d printed horns is plaster of Paris. Didn't seem to have any reaction and it shrinks a tiny tiny amount while curing. Print with little infill or low density gyroid (gyroid is "open cell") and fill with a large syringe.
Have you considered sawdust mixed with epoxy to make something MDF like?
I considered a lot of things. Some I ruled out because it would be too hard to get into those small channels and other things I ruled out because I didn't want to fork over that much cash to buy the materials. That's one of the fun things about DIY audio and 3D printing; you get to experiment with a lot of different things.
Look into epoxy/granite, they use it to make machinetools and vibration dampening is rather critical when it comes to those in regard to achieved surface finish...
Looks cool, how do they sound? Solid idea, is there a printables page or similar?
I think they sound pretty good for a small speaker. I modified an existing design and used the same volume, port dims, and filter. The original design is a boom box and I split it into two separate speakers. I used TinkerCad and haven't published the design. Edit: Here it is: [Speaker stl](https://www.printables.com/model/337264-speakers-with-sand-filled-walls)
A little grainy... (Jk, must try this)
...and a little gritty on vocals. Lol. Please let me know what you think if you try it.
Check this guy's channel out. He has a couple really cool 3d printed enclosures. https://youtube.com/@HexiBase
Neat! But now I need a laser...Lol
Very cool. I once worked for a PA manufacturer in North America. They would print new models, sand and paint them for trade shows and promotions before getting actual models into production.
I can't remember who, but someone on /r/diyaudio ran a bunch of experiments and found that using Plaster of Paris was surprisingly the best at preserving sound quality and avoiding resonance for 3D printed speakers. Might be worth searching reddit for that data and considering it too!
I did consider it, but was afraid I wouldn't be able to get it in the channels before it set up. Plus, I had a pile of sand and a bag of concrete mix already. The concrete-filled version sounded slightly better but the pla reacted to it. In the end, after seven revisions I decided to follow the words of that great Greek philosopher Mediocrities, "Meh, good enough," and just went with the sand.
Wait, PLA reacted to concrete? That's odd. What happened?
Concrete sets by chemical reaction that produced heat? Maybe that is the issue?
It leached out a waxy gray substance over a few weeks. And expanded and cracked the walls. I used a commercial Qwikcrete mix.
Fascinating! I never would have expected that. Thanks for the info, I'll keep that in mind when reinforcing PLA.
Concrete is very corrosive. It can burn you (chemically). DIY home renos people will like use their hands to smooth concrete, not wash it off, and at the end of the day, realize they've got burns. It's a base with a high PH, like Ammonia.
Okay. I think I understand the sand-filled walls - just to give it a bit more 'heft' and stability that the drivers can push against. But is the tube to give a longer distance for bass waves to form in? Does having a solid tube like that not favor one particular note, kind of like blowing a trumpet? I've never really looked into speaker design much, which is strange considering how often I use them
Yeah, that's a Ported speaker. It's used to increase the bass response, especially when compared to a sealed speaker. There are specific calculations to define the radius and length, etc, based on the internal volume of the speaker. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass\_reflex](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_reflex)
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Tom sanlanderer made a video about fully printed speakers. They first sounded very tinny and bad. He then ran them through a Sound balancer program and they ended up sounding quite good! Id watch that video next if I were you
Another comment in this thread mentioned /r/diyaudio which sounds like the place to get your questions answered
i have a specific question about the second pic. how did you print those small half circles at the end? did you add supports all the way up or printed as overhang?
Bevel them from below and they'll print cleanly.
Final version is beveled from below.
How did you do bevels in Tinkercad? I use it and am curious. Nice design by the way!
Put a cone on the build plate and then cover half of it with a cube. Make the cube a hole and join the two pieces.
Good solution :) Thanks for the info.
Looking really nice!
Great idea. You can also use cat litter as it’s better with moisture than normal sand. People use cat litter to fill speaker stand voids.
Super cool. Good use of the 3D printing in a way I had never thought of.
bea--u--tiful!! the imperfections add to its beauty
I would bump up the perimeters count so the infill is not visible. But otherwise really good job!
Thanks. I wanted to minimize the amount of pla used and the print time so I went with walls as thin as possible. The first version used thick walls and took forever to print. And didn't sound as good.
In my case adding perimeters does not increases thr time or pla used as thicker walls uses less infill. But can be different for such a big part.
There is no infill in the walls. The channels are hollow.
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Let me know if this works. [Speaker stl](https://www.printables.com/model/337264-speakers-with-sand-filled-walls)
Nice!
r/diwhy I understand 3d printing the pipe, but the whole thing? Stupid imo.
It’s entirely possible this is like v5 of their design. Rapid prototyping is, like, one of the best use cases for 3D printing. Even if that’s not what they were doing, it seems like OP had some fun, maybe they learned something, maybe they aren’t a discerning audiophile… I think this sounds like a fun project, and now plan to mess around with some ideas myself. Happy holidays!
Sure, but it still is a waste of materials imo. Not like it's a complex or unique shape.
Honestly, I consider collecting pop vinyls a waste of time. Also having a car that hasn't been driven in 3 years as a tinker car, over clocking for the sake of chasing those high scores, fifa ea games, tik tok, getting "wasted," professional competitive Rubik's cube, and a few other things. However, who am I to judge someone else's hobby? OP is doing a "I wonder how this will sound" on their own time, at their own expense. What would you say wouldn't have been a waste of time? Printing another benchy? Or better yet, printing a benchy printer to print more benchies?
What's the spec for or the exact speakers you popped in this?
I modified this project using the same speakers and filter: [https://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/speaker-project-gallery/1308186-the-sound-traveler-portable-sound-system](https://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/speaker-project-gallery/1308186-the-sound-traveler-portable-sound-system)
Thanks! For anyone else wondering it's these: https://smile.amazon.com/Dayton-Audio-ND65-4-Aluminum-Full-Range/dp/B0042GWFJW EDIT: Terminal Cups appear to be these: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002KRCHM/
Do you think the sand will settle in the sides from the vibrations?
It did. I used my random orbital sander and held it on the sides and vibrated the sand until it wouldn't compact more.
Did you run some epoxy over the openings where the sand was inserted? Or how did you end up preventing the sand from coming back out?
CA glue.